Heads up – Massive Black Friday Deals List is Live!!! The Garmin Fenix 8 is $250 off (even the Fenix 8 Pro is $100 off!), the Apple Watch Ultra 3 is on sale, the Garmin inReach Mini 2 is $249, the GoPro Hero 13 Black, DJI NEO, and a ton of other brands/deals, including Wahoo, Oura, Whoop, Polar, Samsung, Google, and more than 100 sports tech deals here!
The Week in Review is a collection of both all the goodness I’ve written during the past week around the internet, as well as a small pile of links I found interesting – generally endurance sports related. I’ve often wondered what to do with all of the coolness that people write, and while I share a lot of it on Twitter and Facebook, this is a better forum for sending it on to y’all. Most times these different streams don’t overlap, so be on the lookout at all these places for good stuff!
Just a heads up for those US folks, REI is having their semi-annual 20% off coupon deal. Basically, you can take 20% off most things. That excludes “items with GPS technology”, and a few other categories – but does allow for things like power meters, Garmin Varia radar, and more. Use the link below and it helps the site:
A few other things have popped up this week to add to the pile, so here’s a quick mention:
Product
Sale Price
Amazon
Other site
Sale Notes
Adobe Creative Cloud Pro (12 Months) - $389 off (50% off!)
As a side note, you can cancel and take advantage of this. Which, is precisely what I did when I realized my existing plan was gonna be stupid expensive. In any case, I use the Adobe Creative Cloud Pro suite for a lot of what I do.
We did see lower just back in July, at $199. So I'd probably hold out a bit more here. Assuming that happens, you can't beat this watch at this price point (heck,not even at $226 either).
Perhaps this deal will get better, but right now at $20 off...nah. Given the price of the Garmin Epix Pro has flirted into the $429 range a bit over the past few days (and is a vastly better watch), this needs to drop down closer to $299 to be worth picking up during Black Friday pricing.
These are the just-released AirPod Pro 3, with optical heart rate sensors in them. These are my daily-driver headphones these days, and even more notably, the heart rate accuracy is incredibly good in these.
This is the first major sale for the Apple Watch SE 3, which came out just 2 months ago. It's essentially Apple's 'budget' offering, yet it still has all the same software features as a higher-end Apple Watch Series 11, as long as the hardware permits.
This is the first time we've seen the Apple Watch Ultra 3 on sale, and given it's $100 off, that tends to be the typical sale price for the holidays/Black Friday for the current/just-released version.
This is last year's model. And sure, the Action 6 came out 48 hours ago, but honestly, the initial rection hasn't been kind there. I just started testing it, so more to come very shortly.
Look, don't buy this drone. This is the drone that never should have left the napkin at the lunch table at DJI's HQ. The unit breaks easily (as I, and many others found out), and doesn't really do anything super well. Literally, buy any other DJI drone except htis one...you're welcome.
⚡ This is a great little drone as your first drone, especially for sports usage, where it'll do an astonishing job following you (running, cycling, etc...). And, you can crash it a gazillion times without any problem.
NOTE: This is not sold by DJI directly via Amazon. DJI itself is NOT selling the OSMO 360 in the US, and WILL NOT support/repair it in the US. That said, it's a solid deal if you're ok with those risks.
This is Elite's previous-gen trainer, but it's still a reliable workhorse. This bundle is paired with the Zwift Cog/Click, though, you can also buy it without a cassette for the same price.
These is the new model just released this past summer with stronger anti-scratch resistance (I even dragged it down a textured concrete pool desk, lens-down, to show this).
⚡The Favero Assioma Pro MX dual-sided power meter pedals deal is a no brainer. I use them in my testing constantly along with the PRO RS pedals. Note Favero will simply convert your currency automatically (e.g. still works in the US)
⚡The Favero Assioma Pro RS dual-sided power meter pedals having their first sale yet. This deal is a no brainer. I use them in my testing, and will likely pick up another set in this sale. Note Favero will simply convert your currency automatically (e.g. still works in the US)
⚡ This is (by far) the lowest price we've seen on this watch to date. This is their first full smartwatch focused on kids activity tracking and gamification.
⚡ This is the go-to sale price for the Fitbit Charge 6. It happens often, but it still doesn't take away from the fast that it's argueably the best bang for your buck fitness tracker out there.
If you're looking for a simple and inexpensive activity tracker, you won't go wrong with a Fitbit (or this Inspire 3). It's got literally all the same software features in the Fitbit app as a higher-end Google Pixel Watch or other Fitbit device, except...just tiny.
⚡ This is Garmin's newest kids-focused and LTE connected smart watch. Our three daughters have been using it for about two months now, after using the original Bounce 1 for years. This is a *massive* upgrade over the Bounce 1, both in features/hardware, but frankly also battery life. My review should be up next week, but if you've got any questions drop them in the comments below.
This is the activity tracker that both of our oldest daughters have used for years (age 8 & 9), as well as most of their friends now. They/we all like it. Check out my full in-depth review for all my thoughts. That said, the new Bounce 2 came out two months ago, and while my review isn't out yet, it's a far better product. But, quite a bit more too. The TLDR on that review will be that it's the best kids smartwatch/tracker to date (for both parents and kids), but obviously will cost you $100 more.
This is Garmin's premier line of diving watches, which is based on the Fenix 7 seies, rather than the Fenix 8 series. Still, it's by far one of the most capable dive+everything else watches on the market.
Garmin Descent MK3i (Dive watch with air integration) - $250 off!
This is Garmin's premier line of diving watches, which is based on the Fenix 7 seies, rather than the Fenix 8 series. Still, it's by far one of the most capable dive+everything else watches on the market. The 'i' version (MK3i) means that you can connect it to an air tank monitor transmitter pod.
⚡This is a very solid deal, and is still one of the best bike computers Garmin has ever made, especially when you look at the battery side of things (it lasts far longer than the Edge 1050).
⚡At $249, it's pretty much impossible to beat this deal in terms of bike computers. There's no competitive option that beats it on features/battery/etc at this price, or frankly anywhere near it. Sure, it doesn't have a touchscreen, but it's not as bad as it used to be (I did a stint on it this winter for a week or so, and was fine).
⚡⚡This is the lowest price we've seen on the Garmin Edge 540 Solar to date, which has gained virtually all of the new Garmin Edge 1050 features as well. And notably, lower than the Edge 540 without solar (which is kinda silly, but hey, win for us!).
This is the lowest price we've seen on this to date. The Enduro 3 is simply the Fenix 8 with a MIP/Solar display (but without the scuba or voice calling features). It gets all the Fenix 8 features and updates otherwise.
⚡⚡⚡ This is a fantastic deal. By far the lowest price we've seen this! The Epix Pro has a flashlight which the regular Epix lacks, plus the newer Garmin Elevate Gen5 optical HR sensor with ECG support.
⚡⚡⚡ This is a fantastic deal. By far the lowest price we've seen this! The Epix Pro has a flashlight which the regular Epix lacks, plus the newer Garmin Elevate Gen5 optical HR sensor with ECG support. Note: Availability on this deal fluctuates, just keep checking back, I'm sure it'll pop back again (it always does).
⚡⚡ If you wanted the battery life of a Fenix MIP series without the cost of a Fenix 8, this is basically your best deal. Plus, unlike the base Fenix 7 series, the Pro series includes the flashlight and Gen5 HR sensor with ECG.
⚡ If you wanted the battery life of a Fenix MIP series without the cost of a Fenix 8, this is basically your best deal. Plus, unlike the base Fenix 7 series, the Pro series includes the flashlight and Gen5 HR sensor with ECG.
⚡ The Fenix 8 keeps getting all the new software features of the Fenix 8 Pro that was launched two months ago. Setting aside that Fenix 8 Pro which gained LTE & Satellite Messaging, this is otherwise the most capable sports watch on the market.
⚡ The Fenix 8 keeps getting all the new software features of the Fenix 8 Pro that was launched two months ago. Setting aside that Fenix 8 Pro which gained LTE & Satellite Messaging, this is otherwise the most capable sports watch on the market.
As a general rule, the Fenix E is the watch that literally nobody is buying, and makes no sense at higher prices. The hardware is simply the Epix Gen 2 with Fenix stamped on it. That watch is going for $400, though I expect we'll see it down to $300 over Black Friday. However, one *KEY* difference with the Fenix E, is that it includes all of the software features of the newer Fenix 8, whereas the Epix Gen 2 doesn't get all the new software features. Otherwise, save your $200.
⚡ This is (by far) the lowest price on the Forerunner 265, which was recently replaced by the Forerunner 570 (but at nearly twice this price). What's fascinating about this sale price, is it's well beyond the usual sale prices for Garmin for this product. This pricing is 100% an Kansas-themed 'Hello!' to COROS and their just released COROS Pace 4 at $249.
The Foreurnner 55 is a great option if you simply don't want to spend a ton, but still want a super-capable runners watch (and general activity/sleep tracking watch). I've heard a lot of you get it for teenagers that run, as a great/inexpensive way to track their runs, and still be a good everyday watch.
⚡ This is the lowest price to date on the Forerunner 965, which is logical given the Forerunner 970 came out this past spring (which essentialy adds a flashlight and some other running metrics/features).
⚡ This is a very unexpected sale, just launched, on this very new watch, which is Garmin's top of the line Forerunner watch with virtually all the same software features as the Fenix 8 (but in a plastic case and without the diving features).
The Garmin Inded BPM is Garmin's medically certified blood pressure monitor. It integrates directly into your Garmin Connect account. I use it on occasion as a comparison for wearables, and it works just fine (obviously it's already medically certified by the FDA, so I say 'works' here in the sense of usability/functionality/etc...).
The Instinct 3 series came out earlier this year, with both an AMOLED and Solar variants. The big upgrade over the previous editions is the inclusion of the flashlight in all sizes, and a massive ugprade of sports features.
The Instinct 3 series came out earlier this year, and the Solar edition in particular has 'unlimited' battery life in certain scenarios. The big upgrade over the previous editions is the inclusion of the flashlight in all sizes, and a massive ugprade of sports features.
This is Garmin's radar without the light, so it's a bit smaller as a result. Same radar tech though, and compatible with Garmin/COROS/Hammerhead/Wahoo bike computers.
This is Garmin's standalone radar+taillight option, and $149 is pretty much the standard sale-price. Even despite all the new radars out there, this remains the most accurate option on the market. Now, only if Garmin would just re-release it with USB-C. C'Mon Garmin...maybe next year?
This is the first time this product has been on sale, since launching last spring. I'd argue it could have used a $100 off sale...but hey...they don't consult me.
⚡ The Garmin Venu 4 just came out two months ago, and one of the big ticket features is the LED flashlight built-in. However, it's also got a ton of other new features, as Garmin merged the codebase with the Forerunner/Fenix series, resulting in a boatload of added things like Training Readiness, Acute Load, and more.
⚡ This is the lowest price we've seen on the newest product in the entire Garmin Holiday 2025 sale lineup. This is basically a blend of a Forerunner 970, Venu 4, and Fenix 8...but super thin. It's argueably one of the best deals here at $599, though, Garmin is still clearly trying to figure out the right pricing to drive purchases.
⚡ This is the first time we've seen the Vivoactive 6 on sale, which is essentially a Venu 4, but without the voice/calling/ECG features (and a few other tidbits). It's probably one of the best deals in Garmin's lineup (sale or otherwise).
⚡ This is the lowest price we've ever seen for this. This is my defacto satellite communicator when out of coverage area, and I've used it on a number of major treks over the past two years when well outside of cellular service, both in a 24x7 tracking mode for friends and family, but also there in case of emergency. Would strongly recommend for anyone doing anything in the wilderness.
This came out last fall, and is the second time this has been discounted, but now to the lowest price to date. The key difference with the new Plus model is that it adds the ability to send photos and voice messenges via satellite. I've used it a bit, and it's pretty cool because it makes it a lot faster to just say something rather than type it out, but the $499 price seemed excessive. $399 makes it slightly more palatable.
This is GoPro's budget option, which includes a full color touchscreen on the back as well. The main benefit is it's super small, but note it's not quite in the same quality ballpark as their higher-end cameras. If you want size and GoPro ecosystem on a budget, this is an option. But with the DJI Action 4 just $20 more than $199, that offers notably better quality.
We have more Nest cam's than I can count. No really, we have half a dozen at the DCR Cave alone, plus more at home. We love them. Nest Cam's really only go on sale about 1-2x per year.
The newer Pixel Watch 4 came out back in October. I see the Pixel Watch 4 as a pretty substantial hardware upgrade over the Pixel Watch 3, notably due to satellite SOS, as well as a user-replaceable battery.
This has become one of my favorite drones, given it's tiny size (fits in my running shorts pockets) and ease of use. Plus, you can crash the crap out of it (hundreds of times for me and my wife) without any issues. This combo includes an extra battery and fast charger.
⚡ This is a solid deal on a solid drone, and one of the two main ones I use when taking videos of myself hiking or running. This includes the two extra batteries as well as the fast charger (so 3 batteries total).
This is one of the other more popular display-laden rowing machines. I haven't tried this, but my sports-tech reviewing buddy DesFit has (linked at side) and liked it.
⚡ This just came out this past August, and is a great little unit. The pod isn't quite as tiny as the Go 3S, but the features and quality are a huge step up (especially the removable MicroSD card).
This is one of the best 360 action cams on the market, alongside the GoPro Max 2 (both have their pros and cons, check out my full comparison guide linked).
⚡ Let's be honest: This place runs on Nespresso (or, well, the knock-off pods we buy). But, the machine is Nespresso. Without it, reviews most definitely would not get done (and certainly not on time). This is a pretty sweet deal if you ask me!
Ooni Karu 12 Multi-Fuel Outdoor Pizza Oven - $120 off
I use the Fyra 12 (with wood pellets), and love it. The Karu 12 is essentialyl the newer version of that, and there's both a gas-only version, and a multi-fuel option (gas or wood). Love it!
⚡The Pixel Watch 4 LTE includes satellite SOS connectivity, even if you don't activate a cellular plan on it. I'd strongly recommend getting the LTE version for $50 more, to future-proof you a bit there (or, to save your bacon in the woods).
This is a great dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart (with two Bluetooth Smart connections) chest strap that you'll often find me using as a reference strap in heart rate sensor testing. We only tend to see deals on it around Black Friday, always topping out around 20%.
If you're looking for a good solid high-quality strap, that does both ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart, for a reasonable price...look no further than the Polar H9
⚡This is one of the two the high speed drives types I use to store the footage I'm actively video editing. I typically buy the 2TB and 4TB ones, and then eventually offload the footage onto a NAS array when I'm done.
Sony Alpha 7 IV Full-frame Mirrorless Camera w/ 28-70mm Zoom - $400 offThis is the main camera I use for still photography and video b-roll. I semi-recently wrote about all the photography gear I use, linked at side here.
Suunto Aqua Swimming Open-Ear Bluetooth Headphones - 22% off!
This is a very solid deal. It's got virtually all the software features of Suunto's higher-end watches (minus the app store), and just came out this past May.
While the new Suunto Vertical 2 just came out a month ago, if you wanted to stock-up on MIP-based display watches before they disappear, here's your chance. This is also the lowest price we've ever seen on the Vertical 1, which is otherwise still a very soild watch.
I have bigger Synology NAS units at the DCR Studio/Office, but I also have a smaller unit (this one) that I use to keep various piles of data here too. I like the Synology stuff, as it's generally quite dependable.
This is the go-to sales price for the NEO 2T, though has become more frequent over the past year. It's still an incredible trainer, and is the top-end non-moving trainer from Garmin/Tacx.
⚡ This is the lowest price we've seen to date on the Tacx NEO 3M, and finally takes it down to a semi-logical price (compared to it's competitors). This is a good buy, and obviously, given it's only a year old, I definitely don't expectany sort of new version of this anytime soon (the last NEO series unit was about 5 years between versions).
This simulates the up and down motion on Wahoo KICKR trainers moving your bike up and down. Also, there's virtually no product except SNAP, that Wahoo likes to put on sale more. Wouldn't be a sale around here unless this thing was discounted.
⚡ This is a very solid deal for this bike, and the lowest price to date. I actually like the KICKR BIKE SHIFT more than the higher-end KICKR BIKE V2/Pro, mainly because it's both quiter, and seems to be more resillient to issues (less complex design).
⚡This is actually the lowest price we've ever seen on the KICKR V6. Wahoo says we won't see a new top-end KICKR this fall, with them instead focusing on the new KICKR Bike Pro, KICKR CORE 2, and all their new bike computers/radar/etc...
Here’s a not-so-small smattering of all the random things that I stumbled on while doing my civic duty to find the end of the Internet:
1) Is Polar considering going back to Wear OS? It seems as if that’s in the cards. Their CEO recently gave an interview with Wearable where they hint at it. I reached out to Polar, asking a few more questions about the topic. I got back a longer variant of ‘no comment/hang tight’. Ultimately, I think this would be a brilliant move for Polar. First, as their own CEO noted in that article, the previous Polar M600 was a bit ahead of its time. Sorta. WearOS just wasn’t ready then, and when it launched, neither was Polar. It lacked many of the features found on their own watches, for example, it didn’t support cycling sensors. If Polar does this again, they really need to go all-in. It needs to at least have the features of the Polar Pacer Pro. If it does that, then they’ve instantly got a hit on their hands. Also, note that while Google/Samsung restrict their own Wear OS 3 watches to Android, there are actually plenty of non-Google/Samsung out there that are compatible with both iOS and Android.
Anyways, as I’ve said many times, I think for Polar and Suunto, going to WearOS makes a ton of sense for at least one of their watch lines. Suunto last did so with the Suunto 7, which was a good first step – but was heavily limited by the WearOS hardware platform limitations of the time – as well as limited a bit by what Suunto wanted to roll out at first. The good news is I think we’re past both of those limitations/concerns if they were to launch new offerings on the latest gen Wear OS platform.
2) Pro Cycling’s TV Moto Mess: A look at the impact of TV motos on pro cycling. Also, one of the first pieces from the new Escape Collective site – which is basically where all the best CyclingTips folks ended up/created when Outside effectively killed CyclingTips.
3) Whoop revamps UI: In the unlikely event you’re a Whoop user and didn’t notice, Whoop has significantly revamped their user interface. I don’t mind it, but I don’t entirely love it either. It might take some getting used to. The previous homescreen was a giant waste of empty space, but the new one inversely feels really cluttered text-wise – with a lack of focus on where I should be looking. I think just a bit of UI text sizing on the main recovery/strain scores would help significantly. Here’s what mine looked like the other day, and then as you scroll down.
5) Garmin says Netherlands gets best sleep scores: Garmin has posted a bunch of sleep stats on countries/genders/etc by sleep stuffs. Apparently my current country has the highest sleep scores. I promise you, it’s not me. That said, having normal marathon race start times at 10-11AM is probably an indicator that people here really like their sleep.
6) Casio launches the Casio G-Shock GBD-H2000 powered by Polar metrics: I don’t have one of these yet. I might buy one, we’ll see. The watch has a slate of Polar algorithms powering it, specifically: Nightly Recharge, Sleep Plus Stages, HR Zones, Serene Breathing Exercises, Training Load Pro, Running Index, and Energy Scores. As I said, while I don’t have one yet, I have heard from those that I trust that do have one, that the watch itself is making some nice progress over previous Casio units – including the Polar metrics onboard. However, as was also previously the case, the app is currently a proper dumpster fire. You can’t export to anything yet, including even Strava. Which is why I’m not bothering with it at the moment. If I can’t get data out, I can’t really do any review on it. Still, I am excited to see how the Polar pieces work on this watch, once Casio sorts out the app side.
7) Peloton says they’ve got technical sidestep for import ban: For those not keeping track, somehow Peloton managed to get sued by Dish Network – yes, the satellite peoples – over streaming video. As always, welcome to the US patent system. In any case, as a result they got slapped with an upcoming import ban, which would impact their ability to import bikes into the US to sell. However, Peloton says they’ve got an alternative video streaming tech that they’re going to roll-out.
Historically Garmin has released those watches (Vivoactive/Venu) either the last few days of August, or, at CES (first few days of January). There was a year when one of those got released at MWC (late Feb), back in the years when MWC was seen as a cool place to announce wearables.
The more recent singular exception was the Venu 2/2S, which got released April 2021, but I’d chalk that up more to COVID-related timelines getting dorked up and Garmin finally coming up for air on some of their production lines.
Reader opinion re Vivoactive 5: I really doubt that the Vivoactive line will be continued. I’d expect transflective color screens to remain an option in the extreme endurance high end for a long time (Fenix/Enduro/Tactix), but I suspect that they consider lower price demand for passive-capable displays served by the Instinct family.
Personally I’m a bit torn about this, because I really like my Vivoactive 4s as a sweet spot between colorful and low-key. But then a part of me is actually happy that I don’t have to deal with the temptations of an update, one restraint challenge less. In an ideal world, Garmin would continue the Vivoactive line but only bump it to current state of the art every couple of years (e.g. Va5 after Fenix9).
Ray would be under NDA if he knew anything about a future Vivoactive, so I’d expect him to also remain quiet if he knew or suspected there wasn’t any. Because if he made a habit out of spreading knowledge of absence, remaining quiet (in case of something upcoming) would become an implicit confirmation of presence.
Yeah, I think I’ve said before, but I’m not terribly sure where a Vivoactive line fits anymore.
One of Garmin’s biggest problems is the never-ending SKU sprawl. Sometimes that can be justified, but I’d make the case there’s no reason or demand for a Vivoactive unit as-is today. Specifically, for a MIP-based display in the mainstream user market at that price point. These days it’s Apple Watch, Samsung Watch, or Venu, with a growing side of Pixel – and declining Fitbit. All of which are AMOLED and all of which compete for the non-endurance person.
Ultimately, I agree with USR. I think Fenix probably has one more MIP-based generation, and then I think Enduro becomes the MIP for the future people that want that kinda crazy battery life. By then AMOLED battery life will be on-par with MIP-based displays of today, heck, they aren’t that far behind for GPS-on time, it’s standby time that’s more challenging.
Not sure Garmin really considers SKU sprawl a problem: the your-watch-your-way programme suggests that they are looking for ways to boost direct to customer without alienating conventional distribution channels too much and SKU sprawl could be considered a tool for that job: “feel free to order whatever subset of our portfolio you want, we won’t force anything on you, if your would-be customers choose something not in your subset it’s your fault, not ours”.
On the software side, sure, they need a good architecture of their development process to easily do mix&match of feature subsets. But they are long past the point where they might get away without being very good at this and once they are, having a few more sub-variants will be very low cost (particularly when non-flagship devices continue to be lesser-amongst-equals in terms of updates).
(an interesting observation about your-watch-your-way: apparently it’s locale-dependent, e.g. in de-DE|nl-NL|en-GB I still see Fenix 6 and vivoactive 4 at the also-ran tail of that list, whereas in en-US the only non-recent still available through that direct-only programme is the original Venu Sq, and whatever they might consider non-recent in the vivomove flock)
It could be interesting if Polar went back to Wear OS. I had an M600 which I loved on so many levels but it never felt finished. I’m currently using a Garmin 255 for sports and a Suunto 7 for daily use but I’m still looking for one device which does everything I want. A Wear OS watch with all the features of a Polar Pacer Pro or a refreshed Suunto 7 could be what I’m looking forward but I do love Garmin for sports features. I’ve tried wearing the 255 as a smartwatch but found it limiting and frustrating. What do you think about the possibility of Garmin releasing a Wear OS watch?
Yeah, agree with the ‘never felt finished’ on the M600. And like-wise on the Suunto side, I just wish the Suunto 7 had the same sport/etc features at the Suunto 9 Peak Pro. Effectively, let the consumer choose which battery life/smartwatch feature balance they want.
As for Garmin releasing a Wear OS watch – I’d say 0% chance.
There’s little reason for them to at the moment. They got in early and got both payments and offline music streaming, and more recently, have voice assistants too. Meaning, while there’s still a notable hard-wall on the iOS side for text message replies (due to Apple limitations), most of the other smartwatch things are actually really in their own camp.
Yes, one could make the argument that there are more apps on Wear OS, but for Garmin’s sporty audience, most of those apps kinda suck in terms of features/functionality/polish. Certainly, there’s some good ones here and there, but you have to combine a lot of those apps to get even a fraction of what a Garmin Fenix has. And i’d struggle to see why Garmin would want to promote Wear OS watches, since the cost of those is much higher than their current hardware.
The Netherland has the best sleep of all countries? And Japan and Taiwan the badest?!
Easy to explain: The Netherlands is full of weedheads. It is a narco-state. Marihuana is legal and you can buy it in coffee shops. Marihuana drug abuse leads to sleepiness.
In Japan and Taiwan weed is strongly prohibited. No weed, no sleepiness!
I feel kinda weird that I, being Dutch, can’t tell whether you’re serious or not 😳
But from personal experience: while having one or two glasses of wine in the evening will lead to sleepiness for me, it also pretty much diminishes recuperation. On regular nights Garmin’s body battery restores (almost) completely whereas with alcohol it climbs only very little if at all during sleep.
Seems like for OSes for watches if Polar and Suunto switch to wearOS only wearOS, Apple watch, and garmin will have OS development going for advanced watches. Will google be a good partner to work with if they don’t have a backup os to use if they aren’t able o do what they want to do? Does simplify their development needs if they don’t need to worry about the OS side of things.
Hi Ray, looks like $700 may be the new landing spot for first level direct drive trainers. Saw that the Stages SB20 was on sale for $1300 (missed it and kicking myself a bit). Have a dedicated space in the basement, would you recommend the SB20 if it’s ever at $1300 again or a Kickr Core/Hub/Direto XR?
Have a tacx vortex wheel on I’d like to upgrade, but only an old 7 speed bike dedicated to it, so would likely need to spend some additional money to upgrade the bike to get it to work with direct drive.
I think it really depends on how much you want to deal with dragging bikes to/from basement.
I never thought I’d really want to get a dedicated indoor smart bike, but this past Black Frida when there was some really good KICKR Bike Refurb deals, we got one for home to get rid of the bike clutter between myself and my wife, and it works out pretty well for us. It does the up/down thing, but about 95% of the time I’m on TrainerRoad, so that doesn’t matter/happen (and would be akin to your Stages Bike).
That said, a KICKR CORE at $699 which is what I think it is today, is a great deal, and basically gives you an extra $600 to buy a Wahoo CLIMB, or just a lot of ice cream. :)
Ray — The SB20 is still an ERG mode disaster, right? I didn’t pull the trigger on the $1300 deal because of this, and will cry a bit if it’s been fixed and I somehow missed it.
That’s true. ERG mode isn’t solved there, and even Stages will admit that.
There are basically two categories of people there:
1) Those that know it’s an issue and it drives them crazy
2) Those that pretend it’s perfectly normal to have ERG mode be inconsistent
Obviously, there are people in the second category that don’t mind the inconsistencies, and that’s fine. Some try and justify it that it’s like riding outdoors, which is fine, but that’s not the point of ERG mode. That’s what SIM mode is for. Either way…
I went with buying a cheap dedicated trainer bike. The geometry is the same as my other bikes, and the lower-level drivetrain and heavy wheels don’t matter. :-) Having a setup always ready to go is a huge win.
Hey Ray, can’t really find this info, but is there a way to benefit from Garmin’s Training Readiness by sleeping with a smaller band instead of a watch? Can’t really sleep with a huge watch, so something like a Fitbit Inspire or even better Oura Ring would be more than welcome. Does unified training work with smaller devices? Cheers!
“normal marathon race start times at 10-11AM”.
Wow the only runs with sensible start times in my country (SA) is parkrun at 8AM. Everything else is 5/6AM.
i am having trouble using my forunner 955. maybe someone can help or explain. Garmin points out in their articles that climbs and air temperature are now taken into account when calculating training efficiency and vomax levels. For me, every running workout starts either with an uphill or downhill. in the first case, the watch gives the training efficiency “-5” in the first 5 minutes, and at the end of the training it always reduces vomax. In the case, if the training begins with the descent – the opposite is true. Zero objectivity. Is there any possibility in the watch to actually take into account the periods of uphills in training?
I swim, bike and run. Then, I come here and write about my adventures. It’s as simple as that. Most of the time. If you’re new around these parts, here’s the long version of my story.
You'll support the site, and get ad-free DCR! Plus, you'll be more awesome. Click above for all the details. Oh, and you can sign-up for the newsletter here!
Here’s how to save!
Wanna save some cash and support the site? These companies help support the site! With Backcountry.com or Competitive Cyclist with either the coupon code DCRAINMAKER for first time users saving 15% on applicable products.
You can also pick-up tons of gear at REI via these links, which is a long-time supporter as well:
Alternatively, for everything else on the planet, simply buy your goods from Amazon via the link below and I get a tiny bit back as an Amazon Associate. No cost to you, easy as pie!
You can use the above link for any Amazon country and it (should) automatically redirect to your local Amazon site.
While I don't partner with many companies, there's a few that I love, and support the site. Full details!
Want to compare the features of each product, down to the nitty-gritty? No problem, the product comparison data is constantly updated with new products and new features added to old products!
Wanna create comparison chart graphs just like I do for GPS, heart rate, power meters and more? No problem, here's the platform I use - you can too!
Think my written reviews are deep? You should check out my videos. I take things to a whole new level of interactive depth!
Smart Trainers Buyers Guide: Looking at a smart trainer this winter? I cover all the units to buy (and avoid) for indoor training. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
Check out
my weekly podcast - with DesFit, which is packed with both gadget and non-gadget goodness!
Get all your awesome DC Rainmaker gear here!
FAQ’s
I have built an extensive list of my most frequently asked questions. Below are the most popular.
You probably stumbled upon here looking for a review of a sports gadget. If you’re trying to decide which unit to buy – check out my in-depth reviews section. Some reviews are over 60 pages long when printed out, with hundreds of photos! I aim to leave no stone unturned.
I travel a fair bit, both for work and for fun. Here’s a bunch of random trip reports and daily trip-logs that I’ve put together and posted. I’ve sorted it all by world geography, in an attempt to make it easy to figure out where I’ve been.
The most common question I receive outside of the “what’s the best GPS watch for me” variant, are photography-esq based. So in efforts to combat the amount of emails I need to sort through on a daily basis, I’ve complied this “My Photography Gear” post for your curious minds (including drones & action cams!)! It’s a nice break from the day-to-day sports-tech talk, and I hope you get something out of it!
Many readers stumble into my website in search of information on the latest and greatest sports tech products. But at the end of the day, you might just be wondering “What does Ray use when not testing new products?”. So here is the most up to date list of products I like and fit the bill for me and my training needs best! DC Rainmaker 2024 swim, bike, run, and general gear list. But wait, are you a female and feel like these things might not apply to you? If that’s the case (but certainly not saying my choices aren’t good for women), and you just want to see a different gear junkies “picks”, check out The Girl’s Gear Guide too.
![clip_image001[7]](https://media.dcrainmaker.com/images/2023/03/clip_image0017.png "clip_image001[7]")
any venu 3 rumours??? thanks for all the great content
Not sure.
Historically Garmin has released those watches (Vivoactive/Venu) either the last few days of August, or, at CES (first few days of January). There was a year when one of those got released at MWC (late Feb), back in the years when MWC was seen as a cool place to announce wearables.
The more recent singular exception was the Venu 2/2S, which got released April 2021, but I’d chalk that up more to COVID-related timelines getting dorked up and Garmin finally coming up for air on some of their production lines.
appreciate the reply
i just know that if i was infatuated with any other model like I am with the venu, garmin would be releasing 5 venu’s a year!!! :)
Since you mentioned Vivoactive line, wondering if you have any thoughts on whether Vivoactive line will be discontinued in favor of the Venu line?
Reader opinion re Vivoactive 5: I really doubt that the Vivoactive line will be continued. I’d expect transflective color screens to remain an option in the extreme endurance high end for a long time (Fenix/Enduro/Tactix), but I suspect that they consider lower price demand for passive-capable displays served by the Instinct family.
Personally I’m a bit torn about this, because I really like my Vivoactive 4s as a sweet spot between colorful and low-key. But then a part of me is actually happy that I don’t have to deal with the temptations of an update, one restraint challenge less. In an ideal world, Garmin would continue the Vivoactive line but only bump it to current state of the art every couple of years (e.g. Va5 after Fenix9).
Ray would be under NDA if he knew anything about a future Vivoactive, so I’d expect him to also remain quiet if he knew or suspected there wasn’t any. Because if he made a habit out of spreading knowledge of absence, remaining quiet (in case of something upcoming) would become an implicit confirmation of presence.
Yeah, I think I’ve said before, but I’m not terribly sure where a Vivoactive line fits anymore.
One of Garmin’s biggest problems is the never-ending SKU sprawl. Sometimes that can be justified, but I’d make the case there’s no reason or demand for a Vivoactive unit as-is today. Specifically, for a MIP-based display in the mainstream user market at that price point. These days it’s Apple Watch, Samsung Watch, or Venu, with a growing side of Pixel – and declining Fitbit. All of which are AMOLED and all of which compete for the non-endurance person.
Ultimately, I agree with USR. I think Fenix probably has one more MIP-based generation, and then I think Enduro becomes the MIP for the future people that want that kinda crazy battery life. By then AMOLED battery life will be on-par with MIP-based displays of today, heck, they aren’t that far behind for GPS-on time, it’s standby time that’s more challenging.
Not sure Garmin really considers SKU sprawl a problem: the your-watch-your-way programme suggests that they are looking for ways to boost direct to customer without alienating conventional distribution channels too much and SKU sprawl could be considered a tool for that job: “feel free to order whatever subset of our portfolio you want, we won’t force anything on you, if your would-be customers choose something not in your subset it’s your fault, not ours”.
On the software side, sure, they need a good architecture of their development process to easily do mix&match of feature subsets. But they are long past the point where they might get away without being very good at this and once they are, having a few more sub-variants will be very low cost (particularly when non-flagship devices continue to be lesser-amongst-equals in terms of updates).
(an interesting observation about your-watch-your-way: apparently it’s locale-dependent, e.g. in de-DE|nl-NL|en-GB I still see Fenix 6 and vivoactive 4 at the also-ran tail of that list, whereas in en-US the only non-recent still available through that direct-only programme is the original Venu Sq, and whatever they might consider non-recent in the vivomove flock)
Ray, you should do a review of Ki2 (it’s changed a lot since your first mention) and interview the guy doing it. It’s pretty impressive
It could be interesting if Polar went back to Wear OS. I had an M600 which I loved on so many levels but it never felt finished. I’m currently using a Garmin 255 for sports and a Suunto 7 for daily use but I’m still looking for one device which does everything I want. A Wear OS watch with all the features of a Polar Pacer Pro or a refreshed Suunto 7 could be what I’m looking forward but I do love Garmin for sports features. I’ve tried wearing the 255 as a smartwatch but found it limiting and frustrating. What do you think about the possibility of Garmin releasing a Wear OS watch?
Yeah, agree with the ‘never felt finished’ on the M600. And like-wise on the Suunto side, I just wish the Suunto 7 had the same sport/etc features at the Suunto 9 Peak Pro. Effectively, let the consumer choose which battery life/smartwatch feature balance they want.
As for Garmin releasing a Wear OS watch – I’d say 0% chance.
There’s little reason for them to at the moment. They got in early and got both payments and offline music streaming, and more recently, have voice assistants too. Meaning, while there’s still a notable hard-wall on the iOS side for text message replies (due to Apple limitations), most of the other smartwatch things are actually really in their own camp.
Yes, one could make the argument that there are more apps on Wear OS, but for Garmin’s sporty audience, most of those apps kinda suck in terms of features/functionality/polish. Certainly, there’s some good ones here and there, but you have to combine a lot of those apps to get even a fraction of what a Garmin Fenix has. And i’d struggle to see why Garmin would want to promote Wear OS watches, since the cost of those is much higher than their current hardware.
‘0% chance’. That’s my feeling too. I’ll wait and see what Polar or Suunto come up with. Thanks
Any plans to add the FR265 to the product comparison DB?
The Netherland has the best sleep of all countries? And Japan and Taiwan the badest?!
Easy to explain: The Netherlands is full of weedheads. It is a narco-state. Marihuana is legal and you can buy it in coffee shops. Marihuana drug abuse leads to sleepiness.
In Japan and Taiwan weed is strongly prohibited. No weed, no sleepiness!
marihuana
I feel kinda weird that I, being Dutch, can’t tell whether you’re serious or not 😳
But from personal experience: while having one or two glasses of wine in the evening will lead to sleepiness for me, it also pretty much diminishes recuperation. On regular nights Garmin’s body battery restores (almost) completely whereas with alcohol it climbs only very little if at all during sleep.
Seems like for OSes for watches if Polar and Suunto switch to wearOS only wearOS, Apple watch, and garmin will have OS development going for advanced watches. Will google be a good partner to work with if they don’t have a backup os to use if they aren’t able o do what they want to do? Does simplify their development needs if they don’t need to worry about the OS side of things.
Hi Ray, looks like $700 may be the new landing spot for first level direct drive trainers. Saw that the Stages SB20 was on sale for $1300 (missed it and kicking myself a bit). Have a dedicated space in the basement, would you recommend the SB20 if it’s ever at $1300 again or a Kickr Core/Hub/Direto XR?
Have a tacx vortex wheel on I’d like to upgrade, but only an old 7 speed bike dedicated to it, so would likely need to spend some additional money to upgrade the bike to get it to work with direct drive.
Hmm, that’s a tough one.
I think it really depends on how much you want to deal with dragging bikes to/from basement.
I never thought I’d really want to get a dedicated indoor smart bike, but this past Black Frida when there was some really good KICKR Bike Refurb deals, we got one for home to get rid of the bike clutter between myself and my wife, and it works out pretty well for us. It does the up/down thing, but about 95% of the time I’m on TrainerRoad, so that doesn’t matter/happen (and would be akin to your Stages Bike).
That said, a KICKR CORE at $699 which is what I think it is today, is a great deal, and basically gives you an extra $600 to buy a Wahoo CLIMB, or just a lot of ice cream. :)
Thanks for being a DCR Supporter!
Thanks Ray,
That’s pretty much where I’m at with not wanting to drag a bike up and down to the basement. Core/Climb combo sounds like it may be the way to go.
Appreciate the response and the consistently valuable content!
Ray — The SB20 is still an ERG mode disaster, right? I didn’t pull the trigger on the $1300 deal because of this, and will cry a bit if it’s been fixed and I somehow missed it.
That’s true. ERG mode isn’t solved there, and even Stages will admit that.
There are basically two categories of people there:
1) Those that know it’s an issue and it drives them crazy
2) Those that pretend it’s perfectly normal to have ERG mode be inconsistent
Obviously, there are people in the second category that don’t mind the inconsistencies, and that’s fine. Some try and justify it that it’s like riding outdoors, which is fine, but that’s not the point of ERG mode. That’s what SIM mode is for. Either way…
I went with buying a cheap dedicated trainer bike. The geometry is the same as my other bikes, and the lower-level drivetrain and heavy wheels don’t matter. :-) Having a setup always ready to go is a huge win.
Hey Ray, can’t really find this info, but is there a way to benefit from Garmin’s Training Readiness by sleeping with a smaller band instead of a watch? Can’t really sleep with a huge watch, so something like a Fitbit Inspire or even better Oura Ring would be more than welcome. Does unified training work with smaller devices? Cheers!
Adorama has the Epix 2 for $675 link to adorama.com that should be in the list of deals
“normal marathon race start times at 10-11AM”.
Wow the only runs with sensible start times in my country (SA) is parkrun at 8AM. Everything else is 5/6AM.
i am having trouble using my forunner 955. maybe someone can help or explain. Garmin points out in their articles that climbs and air temperature are now taken into account when calculating training efficiency and vomax levels. For me, every running workout starts either with an uphill or downhill. in the first case, the watch gives the training efficiency “-5” in the first 5 minutes, and at the end of the training it always reduces vomax. In the case, if the training begins with the descent – the opposite is true. Zero objectivity. Is there any possibility in the watch to actually take into account the periods of uphills in training?
Chat GPT is pretty topical ATM Ray… could be worth a comment… link to linkedin.com