JUMP TO:

• Start
• DCR Posts in the Past Week
• YouTube Videos This Past Week
• Sports Tech Deals
• Stuff I Found Interesting around the Interwebs
• Discussion (26)

26 Comments

1. gideon

   March 19, 2023 at 11:36 am #1

   any venu 3 rumours??? thanks for all the great content

   Reply
   • Ray Maker

     March 21, 2023 at 4:46 am #2

     Not sure.

     Historically Garmin has released those watches (Vivoactive/Venu) either the last few days of August, or, at CES (first few days of January). There was a year when one of those got released at MWC (late Feb), back in the years when MWC was seen as a cool place to announce wearables.

     The more recent singular exception was the Venu 2/2S, which got released April 2021, but I’d chalk that up more to COVID-related timelines getting dorked up and Garmin finally coming up for air on some of their production lines.

     Reply
   • gideon

     March 21, 2023 at 4:59 am #3

     appreciate the reply

     i just know that if i was infatuated with any other model like I am with the venu, garmin would be releasing 5 venu’s a year!!! :)

     Reply
   • Jimmy

     March 23, 2023 at 5:41 pm #4

     Since you mentioned Vivoactive line, wondering if you have any thoughts on whether Vivoactive line will be discontinued in favor of the Venu line?

     Reply
   • usr

     March 28, 2023 at 10:48 am #5

     Reader opinion re Vivoactive 5: I really doubt that the Vivoactive line will be continued. I’d expect transflective color screens to remain an option in the extreme endurance high end for a long time (Fenix/Enduro/Tactix), but I suspect that they consider lower price demand for passive-capable displays served by the Instinct family.

     Personally I’m a bit torn about this, because I really like my Vivoactive 4s as a sweet spot between colorful and low-key. But then a part of me is actually happy that I don’t have to deal with the temptations of an update, one restraint challenge less. In an ideal world, Garmin would continue the Vivoactive line but only bump it to current state of the art every couple of years (e.g. Va5 after Fenix9).

     Ray would be under NDA if he knew anything about a future Vivoactive, so I’d expect him to also remain quiet if he knew or suspected there wasn’t any. Because if he made a habit out of spreading knowledge of absence, remaining quiet (in case of something upcoming) would become an implicit confirmation of presence.

     Reply
   • Ray Maker

     March 28, 2023 at 11:00 am #6

     Yeah, I think I’ve said before, but I’m not terribly sure where a Vivoactive line fits anymore.

     One of Garmin’s biggest problems is the never-ending SKU sprawl. Sometimes that can be justified, but I’d make the case there’s no reason or demand for a Vivoactive unit as-is today. Specifically, for a MIP-based display in the mainstream user market at that price point. These days it’s Apple Watch, Samsung Watch, or Venu, with a growing side of Pixel – and declining Fitbit. All of which are AMOLED and all of which compete for the non-endurance person.

     Ultimately, I agree with USR. I think Fenix probably has one more MIP-based generation, and then I think Enduro becomes the MIP for the future people that want that kinda crazy battery life. By then AMOLED battery life will be on-par with MIP-based displays of today, heck, they aren’t that far behind for GPS-on time, it’s standby time that’s more challenging.

     Reply
   • usr

     March 30, 2023 at 9:36 am #7

     Not sure Garmin really considers SKU sprawl a problem: the your-watch-your-way programme suggests that they are looking for ways to boost direct to customer without alienating conventional distribution channels too much and SKU sprawl could be considered a tool for that job: “feel free to order whatever subset of our portfolio you want, we won’t force anything on you, if your would-be customers choose something not in your subset it’s your fault, not ours”.

     On the software side, sure, they need a good architecture of their development process to easily do mix&match of feature subsets. But they are long past the point where they might get away without being very good at this and once they are, having a few more sub-variants will be very low cost (particularly when non-flagship devices continue to be lesser-amongst-equals in terms of updates).

     (an interesting observation about your-watch-your-way: apparently it’s locale-dependent, e.g. in de-DE|nl-NL|en-GB I still see Fenix 6 and vivoactive 4 at the also-ran tail of that list, whereas in en-US the only non-recent still available through that direct-only programme is the original Venu Sq, and whatever they might consider non-recent in the vivomove flock)

     Reply
2. Don Rhummy

   March 19, 2023 at 1:21 pm #8

   Ray, you should do a review of Ki2 (it’s changed a lot since your first mention) and interview the guy doing it. It’s pretty impressive

   Reply
3. Graham

   March 20, 2023 at 4:57 am #9

   It could be interesting if Polar went back to Wear OS. I had an M600 which I loved on so many levels but it never felt finished. I’m currently using a Garmin 255 for sports and a Suunto 7 for daily use but I’m still looking for one device which does everything I want. A Wear OS watch with all the features of a Polar Pacer Pro or a refreshed Suunto 7 could be what I’m looking forward but I do love Garmin for sports features. I’ve tried wearing the 255 as a smartwatch but found it limiting and frustrating. What do you think about the possibility of Garmin releasing a Wear OS watch?

   Reply
   • Ray Maker

     March 20, 2023 at 5:07 am #10

     Yeah, agree with the ‘never felt finished’ on the M600. And like-wise on the Suunto side, I just wish the Suunto 7 had the same sport/etc features at the Suunto 9 Peak Pro. Effectively, let the consumer choose which battery life/smartwatch feature balance they want.

     As for Garmin releasing a Wear OS watch – I’d say 0% chance.

     There’s little reason for them to at the moment. They got in early and got both payments and offline music streaming, and more recently, have voice assistants too. Meaning, while there’s still a notable hard-wall on the iOS side for text message replies (due to Apple limitations), most of the other smartwatch things are actually really in their own camp.

     Yes, one could make the argument that there are more apps on Wear OS, but for Garmin’s sporty audience, most of those apps kinda suck in terms of features/functionality/polish. Certainly, there’s some good ones here and there, but you have to combine a lot of those apps to get even a fraction of what a Garmin Fenix has. And i’d struggle to see why Garmin would want to promote Wear OS watches, since the cost of those is much higher than their current hardware.

     Reply
   • Graham

     March 20, 2023 at 5:20 am #11

     ‘0% chance’. That’s my feeling too. I’ll wait and see what Polar or Suunto come up with. Thanks

     Reply
4. Hidde

   March 20, 2023 at 5:57 am #12

   Any plans to add the FR265 to the product comparison DB?

   Reply
5. Chris

   March 20, 2023 at 1:58 pm #13

   The Netherland has the best sleep of all countries? And Japan and Taiwan the badest?!

   Easy to explain: The Netherlands is full of weedheads. It is a narco-state. Marihuana is legal and you can buy it in coffee shops. Marihuana drug abuse leads to sleepiness.

   In Japan and Taiwan weed is strongly prohibited. No weed, no sleepiness!

   marihuana

   Reply
   • PeterF

     March 21, 2023 at 2:12 pm #14

     I feel kinda weird that I, being Dutch, can’t tell whether you’re serious or not 😳

     But from personal experience: while having one or two glasses of wine in the evening will lead to sleepiness for me, it also pretty much diminishes recuperation. On regular nights Garmin’s body battery restores (almost) completely whereas with alcohol it climbs only very little if at all during sleep.

     Reply
6. Eli

   March 20, 2023 at 3:40 pm #15

   Seems like for OSes for watches if Polar and Suunto switch to wearOS only wearOS, Apple watch, and garmin will have OS development going for advanced watches. Will google be a good partner to work with if they don’t have a backup os to use if they aren’t able o do what they want to do? Does simplify their development needs if they don’t need to worry about the OS side of things.

   Reply
7. Chris Taylor

   March 20, 2023 at 5:58 pm #16

   Hi Ray, looks like $700 may be the new landing spot for first level direct drive trainers. Saw that the Stages SB20 was on sale for $1300 (missed it and kicking myself a bit). Have a dedicated space in the basement, would you recommend the SB20 if it’s ever at $1300 again or a Kickr Core/Hub/Direto XR?

   Have a tacx vortex wheel on I’d like to upgrade, but only an old 7 speed bike dedicated to it, so would likely need to spend some additional money to upgrade the bike to get it to work with direct drive.

   Reply
   • Ray Maker

     March 21, 2023 at 4:43 am #17

     Hmm, that’s a tough one.

     I think it really depends on how much you want to deal with dragging bikes to/from basement.

     I never thought I’d really want to get a dedicated indoor smart bike, but this past Black Frida when there was some really good KICKR Bike Refurb deals, we got one for home to get rid of the bike clutter between myself and my wife, and it works out pretty well for us. It does the up/down thing, but about 95% of the time I’m on TrainerRoad, so that doesn’t matter/happen (and would be akin to your Stages Bike).

     That said, a KICKR CORE at $699 which is what I think it is today, is a great deal, and basically gives you an extra $600 to buy a Wahoo CLIMB, or just a lot of ice cream. :)

     Thanks for being a DCR Supporter!

     Reply
   • Chris Taylor

     March 21, 2023 at 7:20 am #18

     Thanks Ray,

     That’s pretty much where I’m at with not wanting to drag a bike up and down to the basement. Core/Climb combo sounds like it may be the way to go.

     Appreciate the response and the consistently valuable content!

     Reply
   • ERG Mode Concern

     March 21, 2023 at 4:06 pm #19

     Ray — The SB20 is still an ERG mode disaster, right? I didn’t pull the trigger on the $1300 deal because of this, and will cry a bit if it’s been fixed and I somehow missed it.

     Reply
   • Ray Maker

     March 21, 2023 at 4:12 pm #20

     That’s true. ERG mode isn’t solved there, and even Stages will admit that.

     There are basically two categories of people there:

     1) Those that know it’s an issue and it drives them crazy
     2) Those that pretend it’s perfectly normal to have ERG mode be inconsistent

     Obviously, there are people in the second category that don’t mind the inconsistencies, and that’s fine. Some try and justify it that it’s like riding outdoors, which is fine, but that’s not the point of ERG mode. That’s what SIM mode is for. Either way…

     Reply
   • Angstrom

     March 23, 2023 at 2:03 pm #21

     I went with buying a cheap dedicated trainer bike. The geometry is the same as my other bikes, and the lower-level drivetrain and heavy wheels don’t matter. :-) Having a setup always ready to go is a huge win.

     Reply
8. TomTom

   March 21, 2023 at 10:03 am #22

   Hey Ray, can’t really find this info, but is there a way to benefit from Garmin’s Training Readiness by sleeping with a smaller band instead of a watch? Can’t really sleep with a huge watch, so something like a Fitbit Inspire or even better Oura Ring would be more than welcome. Does unified training work with smaller devices? Cheers!

   Reply
9. Pablo

   March 22, 2023 at 8:23 am #23

   Adorama has the Epix 2 for $675 link to adorama.com that should be in the list of deals

   Reply
10. inSyt

    March 23, 2023 at 3:24 am #24

    “normal marathon race start times at 10-11AM”.
    Wow the only runs with sensible start times in my country (SA) is parkrun at 8AM. Everything else is 5/6AM.

    Reply
11. Yura

    March 24, 2023 at 6:04 am #25

    i am having trouble using my forunner 955. maybe someone can help or explain. Garmin points out in their articles that climbs and air temperature are now taken into account when calculating training efficiency and vomax levels. For me, every running workout starts either with an uphill or downhill. in the first case, the watch gives the training efficiency “-5” in the first 5 minutes, and at the end of the training it always reduces vomax. In the case, if the training begins with the descent – the opposite is true. Zero objectivity. Is there any possibility in the watch to actually take into account the periods of uphills in training?

    Reply
12. Paul Laursen

    March 26, 2023 at 1:05 am #26

    

    Chat GPT is pretty topical ATM Ray… could be worth a comment… link to linkedin.com

    Reply