Just a quick item to start the morning off, but it appears Garmin rolled out overnight two beta firmware versions for Forerunner 245, Forerunner 745, and Forerunner 945 users that include long-awaited features from last fall, but also more recent features from the Garmin Enduro in the past few months. Both of these are being released as a public beta, so you can go download them if you want. For this cycle, I don’t expect the public beta will last too long – meaning if you don’t want to try beta software, I don’t think you’ll be waiting long for the production releases.
Here’s what each of them is getting (the links are there to download the beta versions if you want):
Forerunner 745 New Additions (Beta Firmware 4.85 release notes):
- Added sleep tracking widget with sleep score and insights by Firstbeat Analytics
- Added the ability to rate the perceived effort and feel of a Run, Bike, or Swim activity. The prompts appear during activity save. Go to [Activity] Settings > Self Evaluation for options
- Added Ultra Run activity profile
- Added VO2 Max for Trail Run activities
- Improved results for daily Body Battery calculations [This is a bigger deal than this line item hints at]
- Updated Intensity Minutes determinations to align with guidance from CDC
- Added metabolic calories into the total calories reported in the calories data field and recorded in the activity file
Forerunner 245 New Additions (Beta Firmware 6.85 release notes – and 245 Music here):
- Added Daily Suggested Workouts (limited) for Run activities. Go to Training > Workouts > Today’s Suggestion for options
- Added the ability to rate the perceived effort and feel of a Run, Bike, or Swim activity. The prompts appear during activity save. Go to [Activity] Settings > Self Evaluation for options
- Added VO2 Max for Trail Run activities
- Improved results for daily Body Battery calculations
- Updated Intensity Minutes determinations to align with guidance from CDC
Forerunner 945 New Additions (Beta firmware 6.85 release notes):
- Added sleep tracking widget with sleep score and insights by Firstbeat Analytics
- Added the ability to rate the perceived effort and feel of a Run, Bike, or Swim activity. The prompts appear during activity save. Go to [Activity] Settings > Self Evaluation for options.
- Added Ultra Run activity profile.
- Added VO2 Max for Trail Run activities.
- Improved results for daily Body Battery calculations.
- Updated Intensity Minutes determinations to align with guidance from CDC.
- Added metabolic calories into the total calories reported in the calories data field and recorded in the activity file.
(Side note: Normally we see Forerunner 245/745/945 firmware releases happen mostly concurrently. However, I wouldn’t overthink a lack of firmware update for the FR945 last night as some mysterious sign. It’s set to get all of these features that it doesn’t yet have, including the Enduro ones previously noted – something I re-confirmed with Garmin mere days ago. It’s far more likely simply a case of yesterday’s build not passing a QC check to be released to public beta like the FR245/745 builds.) Update: It’s here now – added above!
Now, most of these things are ones that we’ve seen before on other watches. As a quick refresher:
– Advanced FirstBeat Sleep Tracking: Launched in beta on Fenix 6 last summer, and more recently on Enduro & Venu 2/2S
– Ultra Run Activity Profile: Launched with Enduro & Fenix 6 this past winter
– VO2Max Corrections for Trail Run Activities: Launched with Enduro & Fenix 6 this past winter
– Improved body battery calculations: Launched with Venu 2/2S last week
– Daily Suggested Workouts: This launched on the Edge 1030 Plus series last summer for cycling, and the Forerunner 745 for running last September
However, the perceived effort tracking one is new to the best of my knowledge. First, you’ll need to enable it, within the settings of swim/bike/run activity profiles. It’ll show a new option called ‘Self Evaluation’:
Once you crack that open, you’ll get two options: Workouts only, or Always. The ‘Workouts Only’ actually means “structured workouts only”, as if following a structured workout you downloaded.
Once enabled, anytime you press save, you’ll get two quick rotary-style question prompts to rate your workout and how you felt. Because I haven’t gotten to my workout yet today, here’s a quick 2-second test activity. First, you’ll choose a grade between 1-10, with the colors getting more ‘intense’ as you go along. Then you’ll choose from non-colorful smiley faces. Apparently they ran out of Crayons in the box at this point:
That’s it. At that point it gives you the workout summary like normal (meaning, this is immediately shown upon pressing save, but before you get things like total distance and such). This is relatively similar to what Suunto introduced a number of years back, I think on the Suunto 9, but it might have been the Suunto Spartan series. Either way, a long time ago.
Afterwards, on Garmin Connect and Garmin Connect Mobile, you’ll see these ratings displayed there. As I said, this was a very intense workout for me, all 2-seconds of it:
Now, I was hoping this might come through to TrainingPeaks, but alas, it doesn’t. At least – not yet anyway. This would be super helpful for coaches if it did, helping to bridge the gap between athletes that fill in complete “how the workout went” details after every workout, versus those athletes that don’t bother to do anything and let the coach try and use his or her imagination. This seems viable middle-ground.
Meanwhile, on sleep tracking, it’s nice to have this back on my Forerunner 745. When I first started testing the FR745 last August it was there, and then it got pulled out at the last second to fix issues. I’ve had it again lately while testing the Venu 2 series, and it’s handy. I loaded up the beta last night on the Forerunner 745, and then went to bed.
(Somewhat interestingly/cool, Garmin did actually pull down the previous night’s sleep data into the watch to display in the watch, which was from the Venu 2. Kinda neat.)
In any case, here’s what it showed this morning, after my children decided to actually sleep-in for once. This is down in the widget glances roll:
And then I can tap on that specific widget to see a gallery of sleep details:
Again, no different than what we saw with Enduro, Fenix 6, or the Venu 2/2S.
However, there is that aforementioned difference with Body Battery. With the Venu 2/2S last week, they’ve rolled out a new algorithm that basically more heavily weights your sleep (or rather, lack thereof) into the Body Battery calculations. Said simply: It’s far harder to get to 100% ‘re-charged’ on a mediocre (or crappy) night of sleep. I showed this in the Venu 2 review with data on relatively similar sleep-quantity/quality weeks, in how rare it was to get to/near 100% with the new algorithm:
In the case of last night with the Forerunner 745 and the new Body Battery algorithm, I continued what I saw with Venu, in that I only topped out at 71%, versus this amount of sleep on the previous firmware undoubtedly would have given me a champion-level 100% score.
Ok – with that, I’ll let you go off and update to the beta build if you want, or not if you plan to simply wait till the production builds go out. Updating to the beta build takes just a couple of minutes (but does require a computer to copy the file over). As always, beta versions can have risk, though in this case I think that risk is pretty darn low. Still, if you’ve got some big race this weekend or something – never use beta firmware for your ‘A’ races.
(And side note: If using the Forerunner 245 or 245 Music, make sure you click the correct link above for whether you have Music or not-Music versions. It won’t hurt your watch if you grab the wrong one – it just won’t update. Trust me, I tried…)
With that – thanks for reading!
(Also, another side note – while checking to see if the Forerunner 745 was on sale right now, I noticed the Forerunner 245 is currently on sale today on Amazon for $50 off, to $249. Meanwhile, the Forerunner 945 is showing on sale at $524 – some $75 off. FYI.)
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Garmin Forerunner 255 Music:
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and still nothing on 550 euros 945 !!!!! no sleep widget
Holy cow folks. As noted in the post, it’s coming.
It’s almost funny that some people post before they read :)
Surely Ray, this 100% proves beyond doubt that the 955 will be released by 13:37 CET on Thursday. Bad Boy Guarantee! You just can’t say… And will deny. We get that. 😉
What do you mean – did Ray say the 955 was coming out this week??
🙄
Again, no love for the top of the shelf model 945.
They are really doing their best to get that customers angry enough to switch the eco system.
Just count yourself lucky you’re not a 645 owner – they know all about receiving no love from Garmin!
As noted in the post, the FR945 update is coming.
I second that! A shame for what was, at least for me, an expensive watch.
I was so happy with my 735, but I accidentally broke it. Then I got the 645 with the slowness, glitches and no support. UGH
Aye, I feel like Garmin has forgotten they have a 6 series. In a few years, some engineer is going to wake up in the middle of the night and shout, “Holy mackerel! We haven’t updated the 645!”
Jesus. No sleep widget for the 245! Thanks Garmin!
I was surprised about that too. I hope it comes soon.
What can we aspect for the FR945?
The FR945 is expected to get the Enduro-related trail features, plus the sleep features. Garmin confirmed this a few days ago.
The 245 at launch was £299, now it’s nearer £200 (£205 yesterday on Amazon UK), but with so many more added features over the years. It’s quite the stand-out watch in the range IMHO.
Yeah, I got my (non-music) 245 for £179 in the Black Friday sale and it’s been amazing. A steady flow of feature updates (pace pro, track mode etc) means it’s the sweet spot in the Garmin range
Does TrainingPeaks gets the RPE from the watch and put in the RPE in TrainingPeaks workout?
As noted in the post, that isn’t happening at this point.
Sorry my bad from not reading it first. Thanks for the reply, saw your tweet about not reading it :x
No worries, enjoy! :)
Do you expect this to come eventually? Is it just a matter of Training Peaks parsing a custom field in the fit file?
I’d expect them to, or at least hope they would.
As you noted, it’s simply a matter of them understanding what two fields in the .FIT file those are, and showing them.
Let`s hope Garmin will introduce sleep widget in 945 watch soon, that`s the only one feature that I’m missing.
As noted, it’s coming very shortly.
God bless Rainmaker, God bless Garmin ;)
Thanks.
Hi Ray, thanks for keeping us up to date! I’m using a FR945, and am getting a workout suggestion based on poor sleep. Does this mean that the watch is already tracking sleep quality?
That’s an interesting question. I wonder if Garmin quietly left the backends of that algorithm there to drive the workout suggestions, but just took off the front-end user interface while they sorted out issues over the past 10 months. Hmm… Or if perhaps instead, Garmin Connect platform is actually handling some of that today and pushing it back to the watch. Though, I’m pretty sure that’s all watch centered.
They said something in the 945 Forums that it’s not exactly the same, but part of it.
So yes, a Part of the new sleep tracking was introduced with the workout suggestions, but it is not tracking it like a Fenix 6.
Nice, that would indeed make sense. Also would give them side by side data (old algorithm vs Firstbeat algorithm) to see how they differed longer term.
Just FY, I have bought a Fenix 6 pro recently, but still have my FR945. Since it’s turned off, i doesn’t sync. But when I go on GC (Web), I see that it wants to sync “Sleep True Up”. So yes, there is something going on in the background.
I got a recovery run recommendation at very low pace because of lack of sleep in my 245 as well after installing the beta.
Does beta software update to the production version as normal when it’s released or will I have to do that manually as well? This is the first time time I’ve tried a Garmin beta.
Yes, it’ll automatically convert back to the production version, since that’ll be a higher build number, once released.
Thanks Ray
Nothing on the 945? You’re joking right? KIDDING.
Total novice on this – how do I get the update onto my 245 if you can’t just click a button?
For production updates, they just happen automagically at night (typically phased over the course of the first week).
For beta updates, you’ll simply grab the ZIP file from the links above. Then:
A) Copy the GUPDATE.GCD into the Garmin folder on your watch
B) Copy the file (GUP####.GCD) in the RemoteSW folder into the RemoteSW folder on your watch.
Unplug watch, and it’ll confirm the install. Quick and easy.
(The GUPDATE.GCD file is basically the main firmware file, whereas the files going into the RemoteSW folder are basically things like sensor or GPS chipset firmware update files. This us true on all Garmin devices.)
From the article :
(Side note: Normally we see Forerunner 245/745/945 firmware releases happen mostly concurrently. However, I wouldn’t overthink a lack of firmware update for the FR945 last night as some mysterious sign. It’s set to get all of these features that it doesn’t yet have, including the Enduro ones previously noted – something I re-confirmed with Garmin mere days ago. It’s far more likely simply a case of yesterday’s build not passing a QC check to be released to public beta like the FR245/745 builds.)
Remember – this is a beta release, not a final production release.
It was a (bad) joke
supposing you don’t have enough space on your watch, do you just delete old activities? and if so, do these activities stay on the app, just not the watch?
I have the same issue – say there is not enough space on my FR245; any thoughts on how to make space?
You don’t lose the activities from your account if you delete them on your watch. The syncing is one way only, watch to “cloud”.
I habitually clear my activities down on a Sunday every couple of weeks.
Thank you sir!
I also found this…
link to support.garmin.com
I don’t bother doing it that way
On the watch I just go to history….options….delete all activities.
Done 😀
Nothing for my garmin Edge 705 I’m raging!
PS any update on when the new algorithm and/or hrv might come to fenix 6 pro?
Yeah for Fenix 6, I should have the date shortly there (or rough date). They were working to finalize which exact portions of Venu 2 updates are being ported. I suspect I’ll have that later today.
As for the Edge 705…hang tight too. Kinda kidding…but…umm…oddly, actually kinda not. More soon. Seriously.
Would love to hear more about this! :) I would love to see the updated body battery and the Health check / HRV.
haha i was obviously completely joking about the 705. but now im intrigued!
great news on the fenix 6 pro though, looking forward to the update
Were you able to find out about this? :-)
Sorry, just replied up above somewhere, but in short, the most recent update I have is they’re still working to figure out what and when.
Do you know if there’s a way to flash this beta without connecting the device to a computer via USB?
I’m not aware of any method.
Garmin can enroll some testers to receive beta firmware over the air (WiFi/Bluetooth) automatically. But that’s typically for non-public betas. They don’t have any such system for public betas like this.
I’d absolutely *LOVE* to see something like that. A simple opt-in option, and then perhaps a morning notification the next morning after an install upon waking up that simply says (roughly) ‘Yo, we installed a new beta update, you can report issues in the Garmin Connect App under the Beta tab, as well as see what’s changed. Additionaly, you can remove yourself from future beta updates there’.
I mean, how cool would that be? Also, it’d basically be like what Apple does for their public beta builds once enrolled.
Did you try to access the file system via an usb-dongle for your android smart phone?
Haha, it would be instant enroll for me for such distribution stream.
I’ve tried USB OTG with my garmin and moto android phone, but it won’t appear as a drive (other devices work fine)
Any hope that the sleep tracking widget may one day come to the 245 or are there hardware limitations for it? This was one that I had been looking forward to.
From your Enduro review you included a quote from First Beat: “Changes in elevation have been incorporated into the analysis for many years now and that remains the case for trail running-based VO2max”. Since the 245 does not have an altimeter in it, is it using the GPS based data in the VO2 Max for Trail Runs?
Interesting question on elevation, I’d assume so. I’ll consolidate any questions on this at the end of the day and send over.
They also added a Device Usage widget which gives the software version, Uptime, GCM, Low Power and OHR Scan times. I am not sure what usage it would have in the real world other than for testing or why you would need to see this as a widget, but it is interesting
That widget is in betas since a year i think.
I had an update pushed to my 235 a few days ago and I was very surprised. I haven’t really notice any differences at all.
Hi,
When wil the sleepscore come to Garmin connect?
Greetings,
Sven
It’s actually already there for Venu 2/2S folks. I checked with Garmin on that over the last few days and they confirmed it’s coming for other Firstbeat sleep watches, though has two parts for enablement. First is the watch flagging itself as sending the data, and the second is GC being toggled to support that watch.
It is in Garmin Connect for FR745 beta.
Perceived effort & Fenix 6. I suppose that is happening? Any ideas of the timetable?
Technically, it’s been in GC mobile for as long as Garmin Coach was there. Edit an activity and perceived effort is right there. Once saved, it will be reflected in GC on the web. Garmin just finally saw the light and added it to the watch.
To answer your specific question, my money is it’s gonna be in the first post 16.30 beta. All plumbing on both watch and app is already there. Official OTA will take longer given production versions don’t arrive monthly, and release candidates schedules got stretched out recently for Fenix.
Can you share the fit file of that example activity with your perceived effort values to let us check how those values are stored? Garmin’s latest fit profile 21.53 as of 2021-04-15 does not state those values.
+1 !
Sorry – here’s a sample file: link to dropbox.com
Just a quick 5-second activity.
Perceived effort set to 8, “Very hard”
Feeling set to “Strong” (2nd to highest smiley)
Cheers!
Thanks Ray ! Quickly looking I did not found matching data fields in the .fit but it has to be there somewhere, weirdly garmin encoded!
Hey, do you know if the workout ratings bit will make it to the Edge series as well?
Will the 245 get the new sleep tracking?
Garmin staff did state it’s coming 6 months, hope they did not change their minds.
https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/running-multisport/f/forerunner-245-series/243376/forerunner-245-music-sw-5-20—live-to-100
So will the 245/M get the sleep widget?
thanks for the review, is the perceived effort tracking also available for the Fenix 6 series. I know that I am asked for the effort when following an training plan, but i did not find the Self Evaluation setting in run. I am currently using the last beta 16.30.
If it is not available are there plans to roll this out also to the Fenix6 series.
Thanks
Florian
With the workout evaluation, i would love it if GC can actually allocate my MTB to mountain biking and road bike to rpad cycling activities? This has been brought up several times on the forums.
Thanks, Ray!
Do the perceived effort and feel values affect training load, recovery status, body battery, etc?
Also, can you explain these features?
– Updated Intensity Minutes determinations to align with guidance from CDC (I couldn’t find any updated guidance from CDC)
– Added metabolic calories into the total calories reported in the calories data field and recorded in the activity file (What does this mean?)
I’ve got the V2 as my brand new fitness tracker so I don’t have to schlepp my F6xP around all day long. The calorie app in the V2 looks different….I think. It shows your resting cals and your active cals at the time you are opening the app. It seems to start counting both from midnight on every day. However, in GC it still shows the “old” calories in/out look. And I am pretty sure the app and MyFitnessPal don’t talk to each other…it seems all comes somehow together in GC.
Is this also coming to the fenix 6 series?
“Updated Intensity Minutes determinations to align with guidance from CDC”
What does that mean? I tried to find any information about this on the web, but couldn’t find anything? Not that this something earth shattering, but I am curious what the CDC as to say about the (new?) determination of Intensity Minutes!
I’m honestly not sure either. I tried following the links in the GCM app, which eventually point to the CDC website for further guidance, except, the link to the CDC guidance is either broken or redirects to the main CDC homepage. Thus, at that point I kinda gave up.
Maybe the CDC jumped on the WHO recommendation from last year? But why the CDC? That is not really there business. But who knows!!!
link to msn.com
Maybe that could be it…
link to cdc.gov
Could be the two days of muscle strengthening activities per week. I don’t recall this from before…
link to health.gov
Does this mean there won’t be an FR 255 anytime soon? Thought there’d definitely be a new model release this year.
I really hope, waiting for it for 2 months.. now..
Won’t buy 245.. 2 year old watch..
Yes the 245 is a 2yr old watch, but with up to date features and now only £200.
The 255 will be a lot more expensive with increasingly marginal new features I suspect.
Still waiting for the 255. The limit is the black friday.
I don’t believe Garmin has ever released a new wearable device after October 21st, except the Garmin Descent MK1, which was Oct 31st – and was specifically tied to the open of a dive convention.
Once you get beyond today (technically this week, but nobody announces on a Friday or weekend…thus, being today is a Thursday, the week is ‘over’), you’re in bad territory for focusing on the holiday season.
Hi Ray – I have been holding out to buy the Forerunner 955 – do you think it will be released anytime soon?? Not sure if this new beta makes that outlook seem more unlikely??
Thanks!
Well that didn’t take long, it’s available for the 945 now also.
It’s out for the 945 also. You can update your post title :)
link to forums.garmin.com
This is a big release for me – the sleep widget and the trail VO2 changes will definitely change the way I use the 945. I run 90% trail activities, so my data quality and ‘usability’ should improve.
Post updated!
You did that in record time! Bravo sir.
Will this pull down previous sleep data from GC to update the on-watch sleep tracking, or does this just start being tracked from the night after I install the beta?
(also asked on the Garmin forum.. so the race is on to answer! :D )
I’m not sure. In my case it pulled down my Venu 2 sleep from the night before, so I got instant gratification there. But that’s already on the advanced sleep tracking train.
I suppose someone else by now will have installed it that doesn’t have a Venu 2, Fenix 6, or Enduro though… :)
945 doesn’t pull down the previous nights sleep data. Sort of makes sense given the data probably wasn’t tracked, unlike your Venu 2.
Think can wait until the morning!
Wonder does it only track sleep during your defined night time? Or if you fell asleep early with that be counted?
Yeah, it doesn’t much matter these days when you fall asleep – it’ll track it within the confines of that night.
It will not however track one-off daytime naps, or fully separated sleep (e.g. sleep from 1AM till 7AM, then go do something for 90 mins, and then sleep from 8:30AM till 11AM).
I have been marking stroller runs as “trail runs” to keep them from messing up my VO2max data. What should I do now?
If you turn off training status while doing those runs?
Correct, you can simply toggle the VO2Max setting there back to basically what it was prior.
Any of these changes coming for VA4 have you heard ?
No plans there.
I have enjoyed using my 645 Music. I am always looking for news about a 655 or 645+ update because it’s been two years since the 645 was released. Are you able to offer an opinion (respecting any NDA) if the continued release of updates for all of these watches further leaves less room in the line up for an updated 645?
Not sure on whether a FR645 successor makes sense or not, however, I can at least confirm from Garmin that there won’t be any future FR645 feature updates (might be the odd bug fix or such, but no features).
I’m not sure the 645 range makes sense. Back when it was clearly running vs multi sport ranges it gave options. But seems that with features being pushed down the growth is in premium and variants (instinct, enduro, all the Marq ones I can only dream about).
Is there a clear roadmap Garmin have shared?
I’m not asking for a successor. Just the same level of updates and new features that Garmin provide to the 245 – which was £100 cheaper than the 645 I bought.
When it’s time to upgrade, clearly I should buy a less expensive watch.
I really hope, waiting for it for 2 months.. now..
Won’t buy 245.. 2 year old watch..
hello,
does this update fix the Climbpro? I have noticed for some time that the climbpro screen no longer switches automatically when approaching an ascent, although it works on the Edge 530.
I have observed the same thing on my wife’s Fenix 6S pro.
You also have this problem.
Thank you for your feedback.
Jerôme (France)
Nothing for the Venu Sq at the moment re Sleep?
Sooo many times I did not check the version when trying to update the girl’s 245M with track mode when that was rolled out. Looking forward to seeing the new sleep metrics!
I have 2 Garmins. Haven’t been able to sync either for 40 days
Their “engineers” are supposedly working on a fix. Watches are great. The software is terrible. I’ll never buy another Garmin
I’m assuming it does, but to double check, does the FR745 have the “screen mirroring” feature of the 945? So my Edge 530 can show what my watch is showing in Triathlon scenarios? I know you did a post a while back but can’t remember the devices involved.
Does the vo2max calculation in ultra run activity mode work off the trail profile or the standard run profile? Or is it excluded from vo2 max completely?
Thinking back to the explanation on a prior post about the additional movements and calculations to get the trail run accurate.
Of course, I don’t know how many people run road ultras, but the aid station time could be useful to some I guess.
I combed the article abnd the comments section. Sorry, if this has been addressed already. But my question is.
On 945. – does this new sleep metric fro first beat also changes actual gathering/interpretation of sleep data? Because previously when I looked at the sleep data on GC from my 945, I felt they were no that accurate at all – for instance if I had a sleepless night and spent an hour reading a book, my watch very often did no not pick up this interruption. So I kind of stopped looking at the sleep data at all. I have access to Polar watches as well – these seemed to provide much more accurate picture.
Does the new update potentially improves this?
OK it’s good. Beautiful.
But when does the 955 come out?
Do you know if the sleep widget will ever make it to the forerunner 245?
Hello Ray!
Do you know if the Fenix 6 will get the ability to rate the perceived effort and feel?
I just shot over a note to ask that team. Will post back when I hear back.
Ok, thank you!
Any news on this? Thanks
No update yet, unfortunately. Well, I mean, I got an update over the weekend that they’re still determining/deciding, but haven’t decided on what or if will be rolled out to the Fenix 6.
My $400 245 does it, but my partners $1100 Fenix 6 doesn’t.
Garmin has a weird way of pushing customers off their top watches.
245 user, I was hoping that the comment in their documentation about fixing the OHR metronome problem was true. I ran without an external OHR for the first time in months and the HR looked good for the first 75% of the run before gaining 20bpm in the last 25%. The switchover point is dramatic, exactly as if it suddenly fell in step with my cadence or similar.
Disappointing as I had no issues with the OHR on the 745 and 645
We are happy that Garmin now supports this too. (as Suunto did this earlier)
Garmin writes it into the fit file so we were able to parse and show it at RUNALYZE. (As we have a bit different scale for RPE there will be a little difference)
Cool! Do you have a screenshot of it by chance to post here?
Cool!, I Just tried it. Works perfectly. The RPE/Subjective feeling features have been in Runalyze for ages. It’s just that it’s now automatically set based on what I input on my 945.
with the new firmware you see now your intensitry minutes in your workouts in GCM!
Is there a way to manually change the time the sleep widget shows me as having woken as I went back to bed for some more sleep after it finishes in the app?
I want MTB Jump metrics on 945!
Does tis mean no fr245+ or fr255 this year?
Any clue when the 955 will be released? My 920 is crashing rapidly.
I have been fiddling for an hour trying to install the beta but I can’t get my Forerunner 745 to show as a drive on my mac. It did show fine in Garmin express. I have then disabled the MTP mode from the system menu and tried “Forcing a Garmin to Mount as a Drive” from link to support.garmin.com too, to no success. Any tips on how to get the watch mount as a drive on mac?
Does FR245 get sleep widget, and analytics from Firstbeat? The title suggests all three get it, but below only the FR745 and FR945 have it listed.
Yeah, my title could only be so long, so I tried to make it as clear as possible – and then immediately highlight those features in the first few lines of the post.
As for the FR245, I specifically asked that last night, and hope to hear back shortly. I’ve got multiple conversations over the last 11 months saying they were bringing it to the FR245, and Garmin posted publically about that too in the forums apparently, but I just wanted to confirm again more recently. Will update as soon as I get a response back.
(And for those asking about the nuances of the Fenix 6 – they’re still tracking down the specifics).
Thanks for your interest in this issue. I own the FR245 which I bought after your review, and while I like the device, I don’t like the fact that I can buy a Fitbit Inspire 2 for 1/3 the price of the FR245 and have better sleep tracking. Hope Garmin gets better on this point.
Any updates on F6? They’ve been stuck on 16.xx RC for unusually long and wondering whether adding these features might be part of the hold up
Did you get a response from Garmin?
Sorry, I thought I replied somewhere in here on the Fenix 6. But in short, no, they’re still determining what features will be ported. Some already have of course, but the remaining ones are up in the air.
Hey Ray – Just curious if you heard anything on this?
On the FR245/245 Music, at present, they’ve backed away from committing to bringing it to that device (which they’d previously done a year ago). They aren’t saying no, but they aren’t saying yes either.
It sounds like there’s some concern about that userbase being less flexible to a change in algorithms. Meaning, the device has been out two years and then ‘boom’ your sleep stats might shift (because, obviously, it’s a different algorithm). It sounds like there’s still some concern that the FR245 userbase is a bit different than higher end watches, and a shift like that might be confusing. I see both sides of that.
In any case, they’re point is they just haven’t decided yet. I suspect part of that is seeing how things go on the FR745/945 user bases once those go to production.
???
Which user could NOT appreciate an improved algorithm? Does not seem a valid reason… And possibly, couldn’t they leave the choise to user in the sw? Since old one is to understanding basically calculated in their cloud, so should not have big impact on watch memory and performance… A simple toggle in the options like “old version” , “new version” or “none” for sleep tracking options could work… Also… Could tell them what people will chose 😁
Hi Ray,
Have you seen any improvements in the calculation of sleep, especially deep sleep with the new algorithm from Firstbeat?
I have compared my sleep measured by my FR 945 using my Fitbit Charge 4 as reference and the FR is always way off when it comes to deep sleep (and awake time as well).
Last night was the first nights with the latest beta release 6.85, but it seems that this doesn’t effect the accuracy of the sleep data.
Br,
/Anders
Health Snapshot on Venu2 and now Self Evaluation on FR745: Looks like Garmin is getting aware of RPE, ATL, CTL and HRV! Now they have to pack it into the Connect platform so we can see this metrics within the Garmin ecosystem and get recommendations based on this algorithms! Since the last Suunto App Update they have to do something to stay ahead of their competitors!
Indeed, slowly but surely. It’ll be really interesting to see where Garmin ends up with all this.
I still believe they can ultimately create a Whoop competitor without even trying (I mean, they’ve had all the same data as Whoop for years). The challenge will be whether or not they can break out of their mold UI-wise and make something as simplistic as Whoop (again, ignoring the fact that Whoop’s underlying sensor is a dumpster fire, invalidating everything about the device).
But Garmin has never been a ‘big shifts’ type of company when it comes to software/UI design. I feel like it would really require either a separate app, or a totally separate UI within the existing GC app that makes it feel like a separate thing. And ideally, developed by a different team given the freedom to think outside the box.
I so badly would love to see this. As a Fenix 6 Pro user I don’t always want to wear my watch but love the data and accurate body battery stats. The idea of a secondary device that could be worn 24/7 would be awesome. Ray share that suggestion with Garmin!!
245 user. Getting some surprising workout suggestions that make me question how I’ve been using the rest suggestions. I’ve always taken it at face value. Watch says rest 48 hours? I take 2 days off running completely. Watch say 3-3.5 days? I’ve overdone it and I rest longer.
When I installed this update I’d just done a pretty hard trail run and I still had 1.5 days of suggested rest left, and the new feature said to do a 30 min run at round about my average pace. I didn’t go for a run though until the next day.
The next day, suggested rest still about half a day, workout suggestion is a 40 minute run with half of it at threshold – no way I’d have done that type of effort in the “rest” period before. So I did it, and guess what? Suggested rest – 3 days! What the jiggins?
Maybe it takes a while to get bedded in.
Welcome to what is arguably one of the least useful Garmin wording choices. And ironically, it’s been this way for years. While the watch UI says Recovery Time, the actual intent of that message is “Recovery time till your next hard workout”.
So, basically, an easy workout doesn’t count against that. There’s a bit more here: link to discover.garmin.com
And the specific wording is “it means you are ready to gain the maximum benefit from your next hard fitness-improving (i.e., training effect: 3.0+) type workout.”
(There’s also been many variants of that wording over the last near-decade or so, that’s just the quickest one I can find).
All that said, yes, there is actually a bedding in time for a new device/algorithm. Roughly speaking it’s 7-days for even half-useful sugestions, but realistically doesn’t hit optimal numbers till 28 days (4 weeks).
Thanks for the info. All this effort to work out how to install it, how to understand it, and I’m replacing the watch as soon as I can afford a fenix anyway.
This point and all relative nuances needs it’s on post. Additional examples would be:
1. how Garmin Connect works with each device and what is shared; new device keeps pinging speed and distance records when clearly they aren’t.
2. Does new device need a bed-in period or does it get all the data from connect.
So many differences in their devices, especially with first-beats analytics sometimes pushing, but mostly pulling data.
Yeah, the FirstBeat folks are usually quite good with me having sit-down’s (physically or virtually) to deep-dive and explain things. Sometimes it’s hard to just splice a piece off and explain just that piece without the post being the mother of all rabbit holes. Maybe I’ll try.
Ray could you ask Garmin (or maybe you already know) if the Edge 830 will get ‘Suggested Daily Workouts’ please?
Its not acceptable to add this feature to a low-end £200 watch while omitting it from a high-end £350 Edge 830!
I would like to see this on my Edge 530 too.
Sigh. I’m a FR645 owner. It’s like Garmin forgot we exist.
With those updates on FR245, wondering would Garmin release FR 245+/FR255 some time ahead?
Notice also FR245 price is discounted.
I hope so. As buying 2 years old watch.. is no go.
Does 745 or 945 have new MTB metrics like Flow after the update?Thanks!
And for fenix 6 ?
I’ve updated to the new Beta firmware on my FR745 and have been experiencing a reorder of the widgets every few hours. They appear to be returning to a default sequence and selection. Is this to be expected on the beta version? or is this an issue that should be shared with Garmin?
Mine seem to be staying in the order I’ve put them in.
Looks to be working now. Odd.
I had this happen to my widgets too. Health and PulseO2 widgets that I had lung since discarded were added back in it was a couple of days ago. So far it hasn’t happened again since I fixed it*
* Last activity has just added itself back again after a walk but it did that before I installed the new beta.
Nice article, thanks!
Sadly garmin does not mention what is different in the limited version of “suggested workouts” for the poor 245 owners (at least i couldn’t see this information) and apparently they think 245 owners don’t like to sleep…
I could easily prove them wrong, i do use a FR245 and do like to sleep, this undoubtedly prove they screwed up, right?
:)
Again thanks, much interesting post
It simply means that unlike the higher end watches, there suggested workouts here is only for running, not cycling. That’s because on those higher end workouts, the cycling suggested workouts are power driven, and the FR245 doesn’t support a power meter.
Ow understand, than to me more than ok for my use, thanks for answering me so quick! Will install as soon as back from work and see garmin run advice for the night, I didn’t bring the bloody short cable with me…. cheers!
When using a Fenix 6 with a cycling Daily Suggested Workout, can you control an indoor trainer? I’ve read the 1030 Plus review, read the Fenix pages, and scoured the web, but I can’t figure out if the suggested cycling workouts are indoor, outdoor, or both.
Big picture, I hope to have buy a Fenix 6 if:
1. I wake up
2. Decide to ride or run, based on mood or weather
3. Just do the Fenix 6 suggest workout for running or cycling or trainer
Is the above possible? It would be a bit like TrainerRoad’s TrainNow feature.
(I don’t own a Fenix 6 yet, so can’t test myself. And my Edge 530 doesn’t have Suggested Workouts — grrr…)
As a relatively new Fenix6Pro user, I have similar concerns. Only choices I can find for completing the Suggested Workout is a running activity. Why is there not a biking or indoor biking, elliptical etc choice? Running in the icy winter will be an issue.
“Now, I was hoping this might come through to TrainingPeaks”
I’m glad to say that it is supported on Nolio unlike TrainingPeaks doesn’t 🤘
The rate perceived effort & feeling are now directly synchronized.
It’s like Garmin wants to sting 645 owners so bad they never touch another Garmin premium product again. Imagine spending more on a 645 than 245 and getting this heavily shafted on updates.
That’s my experience the other way around… I choose 245 in the end, lucky, but not understandable the approach from garmin (of course I don’t mean their golf watch :D )
Forerunner 45 and 45s are also receiving a beta version 4.14 with the perceived effort feature as the only addition:
link to forums.garmin.com
I can not find the sleep widget for the FR745 on the IQ store. Have you got the link to download it?
It’s not on the CIQ store. You’ll need to download the beta per above, and then you’ll see it in your widget list (or, can add it from your widgets on the watch itself).
Cheers!
Any new update about Fenix 6 ? Maybe a date ?
If you get one of those seeming lengthy reboots after opening a suggested workout prompt from calendar notifications, it’s worth being aware that it doesn’t actually seem to have been a clean re-start.
I noticed last week that body battery had disappeared in Garmin Connect and my widgets on the watch. When I re-added the widget there was no data. After re-starting the watch the widget displayed “calculating” and after a sync it was back in Garmin Connect.
Somebody asked on the Garmin forum if anyone had list their cadence, and in fact my cadence was also missing on my runs in the same period as the body battery data was missing. I raced on Sunday, and the cadence data is there as normal. So it seems the re-start I did fixed that issue.
I think that what sees to be a crash and re-start triggered by the suggested workout prompt isn’t actually a full re-start abs that some processes are not running properly when your watch returns to life after one of those incidents. Worth bearing in mind if you have missing data or widgets disappearing. Try a re-start.
I’ve turned off the prompts. The suggested workouts are still accessible via workouts in the running activity.
After updating my FR245 to v6.85 it no longer has a setting to adjust the backlight brightness. Did this get removed somewhere in a previous firmware update? Thx.
???
Which user could NOT appreciate an improved algorithm? Does not seem a valid reason… And possibly, couldn’t they leave the choise to user in the sw? Since old one is to understanding basically calculated in their cloud, so should not have big impact on watch memory and performance… A simple toggle in the options like “old version” , “new version” or “none” for sleep tracking options could work… Also… Could tell them what people will chose 😁
Hi, any issues with battery (don`t mean body battery)? Since this update, currently named 7.10, I am reaching 2-3 days battery life, which used to be 4-5 with the same activities before.
I only noticed, that the battery is 7 % down during sleep, it used to be only about 2-3 % before this update.
PS: No change in settings, on and off several times, etc.
Yes me too
I am running the beta software on my 245m and a mate has the full roll out on his 245m. Both have notice that battery life has taken a massive hit with this update. From like 4 days with daily usage to like 2-3 days max.
Just wondering if others are seeing this.
I can’t say I’ve noticed a significant battery impact on the beta.
But they seem to have completely paused the rollout. There seems to be issues with some functions stopping (e.g. cadence and body battery readings disappear) and occasional crashes when diving into a menu. These were in the beta and people are still seeing them in the final release.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a new release that rolls the firmware back to the previous version.
I haven’t seen any difference – however, do double-check that PulseOx didn’t get toggled on somehow, as that’s like a knife to the heart of the battery.
That said, if you are seeing weird battery issues, I find it’s useful occasionally to just let it die. Like, let it run down till death, and then recharge it. Had that on my FR745 a few weeks back when it got all cranky.
Oh – and one other thing, one of the theoretical useful parts of the beta is providing beta feedback. Either via the forums, or the direct email listed on the beta download page. I can assure you that while Garmin doesn’t always answer everyone, I know the humans on the other end of that do indeed read every one and try and find patterns/catalog them. That beta e-mail address is literally a bypass straight to the product group (again, for beta issues), it doesn’t go through customer support.
Set Wrist Heart Rate – Auto. I can’t see another setting option for Pulse Ox
I will drop them an email
Pulse O2 settings are under the Activity Tracking menu.
Hah, I was wrong about rollback. 7.2 just arrived in my watch and it seems the rollout is complete. Weir how it stalled for a couple of weeks.
Dear DC Rainmaker,
I found my 245 music still in 5.70 version.
how do I update it?
can it be successfully updated by jump through 6.85?
Thanks
I have tried the manual method described on the Garmin website, but it does not do anything after unplugging the watch from the computer. When I put it in to try again, the file is no longer on the device. I have probably tried 6 times and had no luck…
Hi Myles K, and DC Maker,
I just received information from Garmin Web Admin for Indonesia (where I live). Unfortunately, She tells me that 5.70 Version is still the newest update in Asia Pacific Region.
So thought I have to be more patient…
Thanks
Ah, it does appear I must have gotten an APAC model from Amazon after reviewing the available languages on the watch. However, it was about two years ago now and don’t recall seeing that on the listing. Slightly regret going with Amazon now though.
That’s incredibly unusual to get from Amazon, especially Amazon US. Do you have a copy of your receipt to show what exactly was ordered (that you can snip out any personal information)?
I haven’t heard of that happening in years – many, many years. As you’ve seen, the APAC models are pretty crappy if you’re not in APAC (and arguably, still crappy if you are) – at least in terms of updates.
Long story, but I can’t track down the original info to confirm the seller through Amazon. Looking through the Amazon customer questions on the current 245 page and some other Garmin forums, it was not all that rare for Amazon to ship out the APAC version 245 non-music.
My current watch is ok except for bluetooth cutouts which cause LiveTrack issues. I was hoping this beta would address that, but I’ll have to be patient for the APAC version to update past 5.70 soon… 🤞
I got the update v7.20 in my FR945. The body battery data is upside down . My body battery is same as last 30 hours without any charge . Now it seems that without any sleep data with watch on , the body battery data will not update . @DCR – if possible can we have one quick video on that
Oooooh what’s the point of adding self-evaluation when there’s a heart monitor right there showing how I did? Disabled it right away, no need for extra useless steps before saving.
Fenix6, all flavours, should give cycling suggested workouts, however they are based on power (you need to normally use a power sensor to get them, both indoors and outdoors)
At least that’s how I understood this
Cheers
Thanks. I had a Fenix3HR (on a demo) that gave me V02 max readings, and hoped the F6 would. I ride a MTB recreationally, and don’t really want to spend more than the bike is worth on a power meter, that I then switch back and forth between the MTB and my spin bike. If I could just us a $100 cadence sensor that is easy to move I probably would.
Doesn’t really matter I guess, it is just a suggested workout, but I tend to overtrain, so thought following the suggested would be good balancing for me.
Intervals.icu is the only site it push the RPE and Feel from the Garmin Watch into the website, so it’s possible for TP to do it also.
Great post! I find the FR245 to be the right balance between functions and cost, but it lacks a vibrating pace alert during swimming as swim2 and 945 have.
It would be great if they could add this missing feature