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It looks great on the first glimpse. But after you combine spider and crank arms prices it’s just… okay. Dzero were already available at that price point, but only occasionaly. Seems like great deal for people who already own compatible crank sets, but lets be honest, those are really rare. I wish all Sram cranksets were widely compatible with Dzero, but right now it’s only the case for expensive Force and Red AXS groupsets.
Hey Ray,
Would you mind adding the links to your reviews of those Quarq power meters?
Thanks much
I can heartily recommend the dzero. I had a stages dual-sided a few months back and had nothing but trouble. Troubleshooted it for weeks with their support team but never got it perfect. Switched to a dzero (I run shimano so I had to get the chainrings/cranks too) and it’s been absolutely flawless. Not a drop since install and the power readings match the kickr within a few percent.
Hi Ray! I’ve been a bit out of the loop, what’s the difference between the original DZero/DFOUR and this DUB model?
Basically, I have an original alloy DZero; can I upgrade the cranks to carbon? Where would I be able to get hold of them from in the UK and would it need a factory recalibration if I switch it over? Thanks!
SRAM in all their wisdom decided to release yet another bottom bracket “standard”, called DUB. This uses a 28.99mm (no I’m not kidding on the .99) spindle diameter.
So at the very least you will need a new bottom bracket. And it may be that the center hole of your current spider is too small to fit the new spindle.
All Dzero spiders use same 8-bolt mounting interface. GXP, BB30 or DUB, it’s the same.
Thanks for the reply.
So I could use the same DZero spider, but I’d need a new DUB-compatible BB(s) to use the new DUB cranks?
In fairness, having just done a bit of reading around the DUB standard, it does *sound* like a good idea, but I guess it all depends on how popular/widespread it becomes.
If anyone knows of a UK-retailer selling the cranks then please let me know!
I was in touch with SRAM about this recently. You cannot use the newer DUB/AXS DZero Spider with older/original DZero cranks and vice versa, without significantly altering the chainline. Their response was really helpful and detailed. In their words:
The newer DUB spider mounting plane has moved outboard slightly on DUB and D1 cranks which is compensated for by an increased hub thickness on DUB spider. If you were to mix generations the chainline and mounting plane would be incorrect.
Sigma Sports are selling the cranks in the UK (branded as SRAM Force D1 or Red D1, the latter being the closest in specification as they are Exogram) in both DUB and GXP fittings, but they won’t work with your existing spider. You would need the new one.
It’s not a new “bottom bracket” standard, its a new axle standard that fits almost all current bottom bracket standards. DUB allows SRAM to dispense with the confusing situation of having duplicate product offerings in GXP and BB30. The 28.99 axle is hollow like a 30mm, making it lighter than a solid 24mm axle, yet the extra 1.01mm of clearance [i]supposedly[/i] allows for a more robust bearing when used in a 41mm diameter bb shell (BB86/72) compared to a 30 mm axle.
Yes, you need new bottom bracket BEARINGS if you want to put this in an existing bike. That’s often the case whenever you’re changing cranks. Even if the new and old axles use the same size bearings, it’s good practice to put in new bearings with a new crank. And it’s not like DUB BB bearings are outrageously expensive. All the SRAM offering I’ve seen are $50 or less.
I got sort of the same reply, but without the “significantly” part. Chainline would be altered 1mm, which is about 1/6 of a gear jump. They specifically said that for a 1x system it would most likely be fine. I finally ordered one anyway and will try it out.
So for Shimano – I will need Quarq DFour Spider + Crank Arms + Bottom Bracket for my BB90 Trek bike. Comes out to around $650 total. It’s not expensive bit it’s not that cheap either.
No. AFAIK installing a DUB crank in a BB90 frame is impossible, so you’d need to get a GXP crank arms. And the only remaining model of those they have not lowered the price on…
These are the available bb options
link to quarq.com
They have a BB90 option that doesn’t show up in the drop-down.
Again, no they don’t. While the bearing set may be for a BB90 frameset it is for pairing with a GXP axle, not DUB.
Oh OK. Looks like I will have to go for a L-only 4iiii unit or a Power2Max NGEco as funds allow…
Cheap when you consider the weight and performance. It’s lighter than a R9100 crankset.
Kinda shitty that they’d lower prices for everyone except their own top-tier groupset customers. AFAIK the only difference between a vanilla DZero and a Red/Force AXS power meter is the chain ring interface…?
“I’ve got one on my desk I’ll be digging into…”
Does this refer to IQ²?
No, though, they did e-mail this afternoon (on a Saturday) to simply note that they’re still working to get it shipped out, and will circle back once they have a tracking number.
The one I have is a left crank-arm based unit.
Would it be the small brand from eastern europe ?
Shout out to Quarq for making super solid, reliable spider based meters at a reasonable price. I’m a little surprised that the Quarq / P2M shimano options haven’t done better but I guess people prefer to stick with native shimano products, even if they are somewhat inaccurate.
Hopefully these prices keep coming down.
I don’t know anything about crank arm, spider and bottom bracket specs so I’ll just ask if it would be possible to use any of these items with a typical mountain bike setup?
It looks like it would be a great option if it could be used, less likely to get damaged.
You can use pretty much any PM on a mountain bike, with cranks it’s just down to the width of your bb shell which is usually fine for normal bikes. If you’re actually mountain biking it’s a waste of money though because power doesn’t happen in the same way. Good mountain bike technique will see far less power cone from the legs and more from weight shifting and pumping. Knowing your FTP will buy you nothing in a race situation because power is too bursty on mtb. Also with drops and jumps you’d get all kinds of bad data. It would be useful during training on flat ground but then you may be better off with a smart turbo
Has anyone gotten a used Quarq PM and had to get it fixed? Eyeing this used one that fits my budget but also worried about getting it fixed (cost of getting it fixed)
Yep, I’ve got 3 of them, the same one that I didn’t need Ray to remind me how much I paid in 2011, and two more recent. The first I needed to get fixed, and due to the response is why I’ve bought the other two.
I live in NZ and 2 weeks before the Ironman then it died ;-( I shipped it to them, they got it on the Thursday AM, they fixed and sent it back same day, cleared customs on the Monday in NZ and back to me on teh Tuesday before I left on the Wednesday. Since then it’s been pretty flawless and is still going, albeit not used as much as the cranks are a bit longer than I’d like nowadays (177.5mm).
Quarq are renowned for their service. Have a phone number with real people, answer emails personally, normally same day. And that service, whilst best for those in the US, is still excellent worldwide.
And it’s backed up with local technical support in most countries around the world outside the US too now (wasn’t the case way back then, hence needing to post to Quarq).
Ray, any news when this pricing will be coming into effect? It doesn’t appear that any of the larger German mail order shops have adjusted their pricing yet. Cheers Anthony
They’re already in effect. It’s just up to retailers to get around to implementing them. Given everything else going on, my guess is that that the notice from SRAM in various account managers inboxes at online companies is probably pretty far down the list.
Would it be the small brand from eastern europe ?
Dear Ray
In the UK Garmin Vector 3 double power meter can be had for same price as Assioma Duo at just over £600.
Which of these would you recommend when price is the same?
Thanks
No experience with the Assioma, but the Vector3 pedals I own continue to be a world of hurt. Even with the new battery doors the connection will drop at random (for longer times) and I also often have spikes which will really throw off your NP and TSS numbers. I know Ray never reported problems, but I would keep a corona-safe distance from the Vector3
I also own a Quarq Dzero crankset (GXP / 110bcd version) and couldn’t be happier about those. They just work.
Yeah, statistically speaking you’ll likely have less issues with Favero Assioma then Vector 3, purely because almost nobody has issues with Favero Assioma.
That said, sometimes issues are less obvious than drop-outs. I’ve had nagging issues on two sets of Favero pedals with incorrect super-low one-sided balance problems. So…I don’t know.
I use Vectors on some bikes, Assioma’s on others. I got lots of pairs of both, but I’m also fortunate enough to have 2-3 other power meters to know if/when something is going wrong and who to blame.
In unrelated news, I’ve also got Quarq’s on numerous bikes. Never had an issue. Just rock-solid.
I originally bought Powertap P1 pedals when they were released. Had numerous issues with them over the time i had them. Probably went through at least 4 pairs. When they worked they were great, but seemed to only last me about 6 months or so until they developed issues – high readings, loose body, etc. To be fair to Powertap their support was great and i eventually got a full refund for them.
Then i purchased the Assioma pedals. Worked great again for about a year, then they too developed issues. 1 pedal stopped working, sent them to Italy for check up. Got them back, worked well for 6 months, then high readings. Now got them back from Italy for 3rd time and working well for the couple of rides i have used them for.
Whilst the Assioma’s were heading to Italy and back i bought Vector 3S as good deal with CleverTraining shutting their UK store. Thought most of their issues had been fixed, but i find them to be reading really low compared with my turbo, sometimes as much as 30-40W difference (tracked well with the Assioma’s). Have also noticed plenty of dropouts depending upon the device used to record the power. Forerunner 735XT lots of dropouts, Edge 530 not so many. But i recently noticed issues with dropouts continually outside too on both devices, especially when going over rough ground. Got the new set of battery doors installed, but yet to use them.
Maybe i have just been unlucky as i used them all in all weather conditions, some days plenty of standing water on the roads…
Thanks
Ditto with Vector 3’s. Great product for about 2 months, then an endless source of despair.
If you feel like selling me a decent secondhand power meter drop me a message Ray. I also live in the Netherlands so I could pick it up swiftly.
Yeah, I use/rotate almost all of them between bikes and indoor bikes. I’m always surprised to find myself wishing I had another power meter or two on-hand for various compatibility reasons/tests.
Did you have nagging issues on both set of pedals? What did Favero said?
I did not see this issue reflected in your reviews :-/
With that said, given that current price of Quarq dub cranks + Dzero spider is similar to Favero Duo, should i get Quarq instead?
Ray, did your Spesh CinQo have a hand-lettered serial number? That’s when you know it was a small company back then…
I mean, Specialized discontinued their road crank, so of course Quarq would fire sale them. Anyone know where to get a Spesh carbon crank? I’d love to have one on my Allez Sprint, much lighter than the Rotor 3D+ crank with P2M I have now, even though that setup has been bulletproof…
Do you know of any accuracy sources differences between the former 3 bolt Sram/Quarq interface compared to the newer 8 bolt? I’ll be in the market for a mtb power meter shortly. My frame won’t handle anything with a 30 mm axle, so dub and gxp cranks are the only options.
I have a Quarq Dub Four that came installed on a second hand bike I bought last year. It is my first ever power meter and back in January the battery started draining rapidly. I got in touch with Quarq at the time, did what they advised and it worked briefly but gave up again couple of weeks back. They advised I needed a new power meter as the warranty was invalid as I am not the original purchaser and that was going to cost plenty more than I could justify spending but I would like a power meter!!
Would anyone have any opinion if one of the items price dropped would suit me, as I already have the crank and bottom bracket or would I be better off going for something like a singled sided option from 4iiii etc.
Thanks
Hi,
It would be great if somebody could tell me whether any DUB crank (like SRAM SX Eagle ) will work with the DZero DUB spider?
Thank you!
SRAM/QUARQ power meters are 8 bolt. Sram SX Eagle is 3 bolt. An older 3 bolt style QUARQ or a recent Power2Max would fit your SX Crank. I think you need to be up at the XX1 AXS level before they use an 8 bolt. My GX Eagle and NX Eagle bikes have a 3 bolt attachment.
I’m confused as always. Can I use any of these with my Red AXS cranks and/or rings?
Ray, great article as always. SRAM until the end of last year never had 8 bolt Quarq compatible cranks in stock to be sold. Now SRAM distributors have the cranks for sale, but not for the price you mention in this article. At least that is the situation right now in Eastern Europe. Maybe Germany or Netherlands is different, because of the EURO currency in place. I will talk to distributors in CZ, SK, and PL and let you know. I am very happy that SRAM after all those years selling 8 bolt spiders started to sell matching 8 bolt cranks as well…. A small miracle.
I have Quarq “Prime Power Meter Ready Cranks” on my bike.
These have the Hidden Bolt configuration and 110 BCD.
By looking at the Quarq line-up now, I cannot buy a Quarq power meter for my Quarq “ready” cranks.
There is no more hidden bolt options for what it looks like.
Has anyone any thoughts about how to get around this? – I was quite interested in Quarq powermeters, as already have the cranks and the SRAM groupset.
Your cranks will take any Dzero/DFour spider. The only problem might be chainring pin misalignment, if you want to use the ones you already have.
Hi Michal, thanks for replying to my comment.
I have the 5 arm Quarq cranks on a Force1 single chainring (does not have that alignment pin).
As you say, not sure if with the new units the chainline will get affected or will otherwise be compatible.
To me just seems crazy the amount of research necessary to find a Quarq powermeter compatible with their own Quarq cranks.
Jörgen: Did you figure this out and try it? I have the same cranks, very confusing situation.
Get a Stages Cycling power meter for your XX1 crankset. The single-sided SRAM carbon MTB crankarm is in stock for $499.
I have a old red 22 crankset 110BCD hidden. Could I use it via the new quarq Dzero spider ? I know I have to buy the crank arms and BB. But would the chainring works ?
Yes, chainrings will surely work perfectly.
Hi,
just received a dfour dub axs spider (the box and the calibration done at the end of May 2020 suggests that) but the graphics and the actual spider says DFOUR 91, which I think represents the old version of the spider. Could I please confirm whether this is actually compatible with DUB crankarms and bottom brackets? have they just used old spiders to clear existing stock?
So when are these prices supposed to reach Europe? It looks like the DZero 110/130 BCD units have indeed gotten cheaper, but the carbon crank arms as well as DFour units still seems to be at their previous price level :-\
Never mind the power meter itself, I want to talk about the arms. I got a DFour91 spider and cranks on closeout from Competitive Cyclist. I get it, and the arms do not look very impressive at all. I was replacing the Ultegra arms on my gravel bike, and they’re very nicely finished. Not up to Dura Ace standards, but very slick nonetheless. It’s as if DA is an Hermes silk tie, and Ultegra is a second-string but still very nice silk tie – like maybe a Zegna or Burberry tie, or something similar.
The alloy Quarq arms obviously work, they turn when you turn the pedals, but they’re kind of heavy, and their finish quality is like Tiagra. And I mean older style Tiagra. The current generation Tiagra actually has a decent finish.
On a gravel downhill, I dropped my chain. Disturbingly, my power meter totally failed thereafter. It returned impossibly high power but no cadence, then it switched to what looked like the correct cadence but no power. I called up Quarq, and the guy I spoke to said he knew what probably happened: it was a freak accident, but that chain drop damaged one or more strain gauges in the spider. So, now, Quarq has no more DFour91s with either axle type, so they sent me a replacement spider and replacement carbon cranks with a DUB spindle. And those arms are objectively nice. I personally think Ultegra has a nicer finish, but this isn’t exactly a major downgrade. I still wonder how uncommon this failure mode is if the tech support guy had heard of it, but OK. My other problem is that now I have a PF30 BB for a 30mm spindle (and I changed out the original BB from a PF30 to Shimano spindle BB), and now I need adapters for a DUB spindle and possibly crank spacers also.