Earlier this summer Elite announced the Direto, a direct drive trainer that’s fully integrated into the likes of Zwift and TrainerRoad. Priced at $899 it was initially targeted at the mid-range price market, but over the course of the last few months the target audience has widened to likely best some of the higher end trainers as well. And ultimately, I think it’s probably the ‘trainer to beat’ for 2017 for all but the most specific of use cases. But I’ll explain that thinking more later on.
(Sept 2018 Note: Elite has technically updated the name of the Direto to the Direto II for all units shipping from Sept 2018 forward. The *only* difference is that this new unit comes with a front riser block for your wheel, and they’ve changed the specification to be a claimed accuracy of +/- 2.0% versus +/- 2.5%. No physical hardware change has occurred.)
In the meantime, since earlier July when it first announced, I’ve shifted from a pre-production unit to a final production unit. Elite also started shipping units which have arrived on people’s doorsteps over the last week or so. Once I wrap-up this review I’ll be sending back both loaner test units to them and going out and getting my own through normal retail channels. Just the way I roll.
For those that want a bit of the basics, I cover almost everything you need to know about the Direto here:
Or, if video isn’t your thing, we can get onto the review itself!
Unboxing:
To start, we’ll begin with the hefty box that contains the Elite Direto:
Cracking it open you’ll find the Direto inside, covered by foam and largely assembled.
It’s covered in plastic, to keep it pretty in the event there’s a foam catastrophe with your local UPS man:
And here’s all the goods laid out on the floor:
Ultimately, you’ll just want to hit up that manual though, which instructs you on putting together the three legs. Note in the upper right are the different options for axles, such as compatibility for 142×12 thru-axles.
These three legs need to be inserted into the base using this handful of bolts:
The entire process will maybe take you 3-4 minutes. Perhaps 5 minutes if you get distracted taking 58 photos of the whole scene:
Then you need to install your cassette. Remember that the Elite Direto does not include a cassette, so you’ll need to buy one. I generally just plop on the same model cassette on all my trainers, which is this Shimano Ultegra 11-speed cassette that runs for about $65. Of course, you can go SRAM if you have SRAM, Campy if you have Campy, and so on. You will need a lockring tool though to install the cassette, and ideally a chain whip. Though you can get away with an old glove in place of the chain whip.
Note that you can install Shimano/SRAM 9/10/11 speed cassettes without any extra accessory, however, for Campagnolo cassettes (9/10/11 speed), you’ll need an adapter from Elite.
After installation of the cassette and legs, we’ve got the entire thing sitting there looking pretty, all legs extended and cassette teeth smiling:
With that, we’re ready to start.
The Basics:
The first thing to know is that the unit does require being plugged into the wall. When doing so, you’ll end up illuminating the three lights on the side of the side/back that show you status. This status includes ANT+ status, Bluetooth Smart status, and overall power.
Some have asked what happens if you pedal without it plugged in, and it does provide some resistance. It won’t broadcast power/cadence/speed however, nor respond to resistance control from devices/apps. But it will provide about 220w of steady-state resistance, and you can sprint up to about 300w or so (but it’ll quickly settle back on about 220w within a few seconds). This will vary based on your exact gearing, but that’s the most I could squeeze out of it without power. Still, for those that might want to do a warm-up at a race on it, it may work for you. Or you could find one of those car battery converter things and plug it into your car’s power port.
When it comes to resistance, the Direto is a fully resistance controlled trainer, meaning that it can take commands from apps and devices to adjust the resistance according to the app instructions. So it can simulate slopes from 0% to 14%, as well as specific wattages up to 2,200w. This second piece is known as ‘ERG mode’, and is often used in structured workouts like those that TrainerRoad and other apps excel at.
The Direto does this by electronically moving a magnet inside the unit, allowing it to simulate pretty much anything most cyclists would want. So you can re-ride a famous climb watching a video in Kinomap, or execute Team Sky’s structured workouts on a Wahoo ELEMNT BOLT. Whatever floats your boat.
When it makes this adjustment in ERG mode there’s a slight delay that I discuss more in detail in the trainer apps section below. When in slope simulation mode there’s no delay for responsiveness.
A lot of folks ask about road-like feel. Road-feel generally comes from the weight of a flywheel. For the most part, the bigger the flywheel, the more road-like feel you get. Though there are creative ways companies can double or increase the flywheel ‘effect’ without increasing the weight, such as through additional gearing like the higher end Drivo, which has a 6KG flywheel but a two gearing system that doubles the effective flywheel weight to 12KG. And some like the Tacx Neo have no flywheel at all, it’s all simulated (and really good at it). So it’s not as clear-cut as comparing weights as you might think.
Either way, the Direto has a 4.2KG (9.24LBS) flywheel, which is about average for a mid-range trainer. Usually the higher end trainers (i.e. $1,100+ units) have about a 10-12KG flywheel. But again, size isn’t everything…it’s how you use it. Or something like that.
In the case of the Direto’s road-like feel, I’d rate it ‘good’, but not great. But like I always say – no matter how good the road feel is, I’m still staring at a wall in my basement. So it’s kinda hard to totally separate that for me.
Next, what about noise? The Direto is about middle of the road here as well. Noise on trainers is 100% related to speed, not power output. Especially in ERG mode because you can sit on 1,000w at a mere 6MPH or at 20MPH depending on your gearing. At 20MPH it will be substantially louder than 6MPH. I often measure noise levels with a combination of my decibel meter stoplight and a straight-up normal decibel meter, and my measurements agree with that of Shane Miller in his quick video he did on noise levels below:
Keep in mind though again that many factors impact noise level testing, including: speed, gearing, chain cleanliness, room design, room size, microphone placement, decibel meter placement (distance and angle from bike), room materials, other items in room, and tidal patterns. Ok, not tidal patterns, but seriously – I can make any trainer sound on video as loud or quiet as I want based on tweaking just one of the items above. So take everything with a boulder sized grain of salt. At the end of the day know that it’s no Tacx Neo, it’s just middle of the road. I do however find the sound more pleasant than the Tacx Flux, which to me has a bit of grinding sound to it (as you can hear easily above).
The Direto does actually contain a power meter, called OTS (Optical Torque Sensor), which is rated at +/- 2.5%. That’s the best claimed accuracy we’ve seen in a mid-range trainer, and only slightly below what we see in most high-end trainers which is usually +/- 1-2%. Elite recommends you calibrate this occasionally using a quick and simple roll-down procedure. Note that no other mid-range trainers have a power meter. Inversely, note that having a power meter doesn’t guarantee perfect accuracy. In fact, the KICKR 2 and KICKR 3 showed that ditching a power meter could improve accuracy since it was one less component to break during shipping (which is what was occurring for KICKR 1 folks). Either way, that’s not really an issue here with the Direto as you’ll see in the accuracy section.
Now I will say that while I calibrated my unit once at the start, I haven’t done so since and it’s remained incredibly consistent and accurate – far more than almost any other trainer I’ve seen (except the Elite Drivo, which also uses OTS…and the Tacx Neo). As such for this trainer, my gut feel is you can get away with doing calibration every few weeks, or when the temperature significantly shifts in your pain cave.
Finally, when it comes to movement/storage/portability, note that the legs do fold straight to the unit itself, enabling you to store it more easily:
There’s also little adjustable portions under each leg to allow you to further adjust the height of each leg individually in the event you have a wonky-ass floor like mine is.
With that – let’s get this thing connected to some apps and cookin’.
App Compatibility:
When it comes to app compatibility, the Elite Direto is technically the most capable trainer on the market today for 3rd party apps. Albeit, probably only a technicality. See, it’s the first trainer to start shipping that supports the new Bluetooth Smart trainer control protocol (FTMS: Fitness Machine Service). Of course, it also supports the more widely adopted ANT+ FE-C as well.
In total, here are all the ways the Direto transmits data to 3rd party apps:
ANT+ Speed/Cadence/Power (standard transmission)
ANT+ FE-C trainer control (Fitness Equipment Control)
Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence/Power (standard transmission)
Bluetooth Smart FTMS (Fitness Machine Service)
So, to put this in practical terms, who uses all these things? Well, basically any app or device you have can leverage one or more of these options. For example, some common ones:
Zwift: Can use everything above TrainerRoad: Also everything above Garmin Edge head units: ANT+ variants, plus Bluetooth Smart broadcast for Edge 1030 Garmin wearables: ANT+ Speed/Cadence/Power, and Fenix5/935 on Bluetooth speed/power/cadence Polar devices: Bluetooth Smart speed/cadence/power Suunto devices: Bluetooth Smart speed/cadence/power
For all the apps out there, check out my full compatibility list within the annual trainer apps guide (to be updated in October, though all the compatibility data is largely still valid).
In my case, I largely tested with Zwift and TrainerRoad – simply because those are the two biggest apps out there today. Within that framework, I did both regular riding in Zwift (+ workouts), as well as ERG workouts in TrainerRoad.
Starting with TrainerRoad, you’d go ahead into the devices area and find the Direto listed. In my case it showed up as DI:
I went ahead and renamed that to Elite Direto, and then also disabled PowerMatch, because for testing reasons I want to know it’s thinking for itself and not relying on another power meter. However, for most other people you’ll likely leave the default as enabled.
Next, I loaded up my usual 30×30 trainer test. This is something I end up running on virtually all trainers as a great way to validate ERG mode responsiveness. It starts off with a short two-minute ramp, and then it oscillates power at 30-second intervals between a low wattage (about 150w on this day), and a high wattage (about 470w). You can run this same workout yourself here.
From there, off I went, right into things. You’ll see there’s current power (465w), as well as target power (472w).
While ERG mode will maintain a given wattage, you’ll see slight differences if you quickly shift cadence or attempt to sprint. At which point the trainer will reign you back in, but it offers you a little bit of ‘give’.
When it comes to responsiveness, I was curious how quickly ERG mode would react to the shift in power (~150w to ~472w). And on average it took about 3-4 seconds to make that transition. This is pretty normal for a trainer. Some can do it a second or two faster, but you actually don’t really want to go from 150w to 500w in one second. It’d be like hitting a brick wall. So all in all here, I was happy with this.
You can see above on the yellow line how things reacted quickly compared to the blue blocks which are what’s specified in the plan. Note that different apps apply different levels of smoothing, and trainer companies also in turn enable different levels of smoothing. Further, some trainers have technological limitations to how fast they can shift power in an ERG mode configuration.
But for the Direto, I’m not seeing that be a big issue in my case. I suppose if you were doing ERG micro-intervals (i.e. 10-second long intervals), and perhaps at a bigger wattage differences (150w to 1,000w), the transition may be too long. But in my case, it wasn’t a concern.
Note that in the case of TrainerRoad, the Direto is also providing cadence and speed data as well.
Next, let’s look at Zwift. Here things are pretty darn similar. You’ll start off by pairing to the Elite Direto trainer within the equipment menu:
And then from there you’ll want to validate both speed and cadence are coming from the Direto, if that’s what you prefer. I personally would use a dedicated cadence sensor for the most accurate cadence data, if it were me. But sometimes I’m just lazy and don’t care.
After that, you’re off and cruising in Zwift. Of course, in regular (non-workout) mode, Zwift is transmitting the grade to the Direto, which in turn automatically adjusts the grade on the trainer.
This means that if you ride up a 6% climb, that it’ll feel like 6% – at least if you’ve got the realism setting enabled. That setting is by default set to 50% realism, so you’d want to tweak that in the settings to ‘get all the feels’. Note, this does not impact how fast you might race in Zwift, that’s all dictated from your actual wattage.
For things like responsiveness in sprints or climbs, I’ve had zero issues there with the Direto. It responds as fast as I can throw down the wattage (I top out around 1,000w). So I can’t speak for someone that may have far bigger legs than I. Though I haven’t heard of any issues with the Direto either. Note that I cover accuracy in these sprints in the next section.
When it comes to Zwift workout mode, the basics of pairing and such are all the same. However what differs is how Zwift handles the ERG function. Zwift will set ERG mode, but it’s not as strict as TrainerRoad is on holding the wattage. So with Zwift, you end up wobbling a bit more at the target wattage than TrainerRoad. Their idea being that it teaches you to hold power more accurately out on the road. And there’s some truth to that. On the flip-side, I personally prefer just having the trainer hold the wattage as set (after all, that’s why I bought an expensive trainer).
Still, those differences are merely belief-based more than technical. So they apply to any trainer you choose on either platform.
As far as apps go though on the whole, the Direto has you covered. One interesting item to note is that while the Direto does technically have their previous Elite-specific Bluetooth Smart control in it (it’s what Zwift uses), it’s not advertised. As such companies are heavily encouraged to leverage the new Bluetooth Smart FTMS standard. So I suspect we’ll see some quirks this fall as companies get that cooking in full.
For example, TrainerRoad worked over the summer to get things ‘ready’ for the Direto on FTMS, and launched that last week. They’re also working hand in hand with Tacx to ensure when Tacx lights up FTMS shortly, that things work without issue there too. As each company navigates the slightly uncharted waters of FTMS, each one is doing it slightly differently. I don’t expect this to be a long term problem, and it’s great to see that Elite decided to pave the way here as it really helps out consumers and smaller app makers long term to all be on two core trainer control standards: ANT+ FE-C and Bluetooth Smart FTMS.
Power Accuracy Analysis:
Next up, let’s dive into some of the power accuracy figures for the Elite Direto. In the case of the Direto, they claim accuracy within +/- 2.5%, using their OTS power meter. In order to validate that I’m comparing against a number of ‘known good’ power meters at once on the same bike.
In the case of testing the production Direto over the last month, I’ve been comparing it against the following power meters concurrently:
When it comes to testing, I generally focus on 2-3 core apps, and then a few scenarios within that. Keep in mind that while every app will impact slight differences in responsiveness of the trainer, it won’t impact the underlying accuracy. In all cases, I’m recording the power data stream directly from the Elite Direto, not via the app. I record these streams to a pile of Garmin Edge devices via ANT+ (usually a blend of Edge 520’s, 820’s and lately an Edge 1030).
With that, let’s dive right into things with the 30×30 testing you saw above via TrainerRoad. This is my defacto test for trainers and looking at accuracy between multiple power meters. Here’s the overall test:
While I talked about how this is testing responsiveness, it’s also testing the accuracy in large power shifts. And at the end of this test I tossed in two quick sprints to almost 900w. First though, we’ll start with the 30×30 sections by zooming in (but leaving zero smoothing on):
Here you see things look really good actually in that they all jump together at exactly the same rate and to almost the exact same place. You’ll see very slight differences in 1-second power (as seen above), due to recording/transmission rates on the protocol. If I add a 3-second smoothing to the graphs, it helps to show how similar they are:
All of them are within a few watts, though the Power2Max NG ECO does briefly go slightly higher for a few seconds and then settles out. Whether it’s being more sensitive or not it’s super clear to me. Again, large shifts in power is always somewhat tricky to match perfectly across units.
Either way, the rest of the 30×30’s were all essentially the same. The only variability you see in the power levels is due to me shifting cadence dramatically, which causes trainers to take a second or two to re-stabilize. Though accuracy doesn’t shift any during that.
Looking later on in the workout I did two random sprints for fun:
These came close to 900w and you can see all three power meters essentially mirrored each other within a few percent, which is what we’d expect. We also see the Elite Direto show as the ‘lowest’ value of the three, which is also as expected, given it’s measuring power furthest from the source (my foot). So all good in TrainerRoad on 30×30’s on the iPad using Bluetooth Smart control.
Meanwhile, here’s another TrainerRoad workout, this time using FE-C to control things from a Windows computer.
The numbers are so close it’s crazy. To the point it’s not really worth digging into in a pile of screenshots, seriously, they’re almost identical. Really solid.
Lastly, we’ve got one in Zwift we’ll take a look at. This time with the FSA PowerBox along for the ride as well as the Favero Assioma pedals.
Again, not to belabor things, but it once again looks really solid here. Let’s start by looking at those two bumps of intensity earlier on:
You can see all three units track within a few watts of each other the entire time, and find the same point after the initial sprint within two seconds. As expected there’s very slight variability between the units second to second, but they all trend almost atop each other.
If we look at one early sprint just shy of 800w, you’ll see everyone matches very closely:
But check out as I stop pedaling for 15-20 seconds what happens (below): There’s a very slight delay for the Direto to zero down the power, about 5 seconds longer than the others. This isn’t uncommon for trainers to see this kinda taper. While not ideal, I can’t think of many scenarios it’ll matter in real-life. If I stop pedaling entirely, I’m unlikely to complain about a slight taper of that power to 0w. Though to each their own.
Speaking of another imperfection: Cadence on the Direto. While most people probably won’t care about this either, I do find oddities here and there – little spikes. You can see this below:
Same goes for another ride with the same spikes:
What’s interesting is these don’t correlate to any major efforts for the most part, but rather significant shifts in power, usually downwards (i.e. after a sprint). Having cadence oddities on trainers isn’t unusual, you’ll see wobbles in implementations by Tacx (Wahoo and CycleOps don’t do it at all). If you’re using a separate cadence sensor, then that’ll override the trainer and all will be well.
In any event, as for power accuracy – all seems quite well here. Certainly for the price, it’s awesome. And you can see why I think this challenges the $1,200+ trainers that claim higher accuracy levels. Best I can see the Direto is matching those accuracy claims, proof and all.
(Note: All of the charts in these accuracy sections were created using the DCR Analyzer tool. It allows you to compare power meters/trainers, heart rate, cadence, speed/pace, GPS tracks and plenty more. You can use it as well, more details here.)
Trainer Comparisons:
I’ve loaded the Elite Direto into the product comparison tool, so you can compare it against other trainers that I’ve reviewed (which is pretty much any trainer out there these days). In order to best understand where the Direto fits in, I’ve compared it against a few other ones in the same rough price range. Note that you can mix and match your own product comparison tables here though.
For the purposes of below, I’ve compared the most-like competitor, the Tacx Flux, as well as the KICKR SNAP. There’s obviously units significantly higher in price that I believe it very much competes against in most categories (namely the Wahoo KICKR, Elite Drivo, and CycleOps Hammer…and to a lesser degree the Tacx Neo), depending on what you want.
Some of you will ask whether I’d recommend the Direto or the Flux. And my personal preference at the moment is this, if only for the slightly improved accuracy. While Flux did decrease their accuracy to +/- 3%, I’d argue that Elite’s real accuracy on the Direto is probably closer to +/- 1%. And I’d even bet that are saying +/- 2.5% in an attempt not to undercut sales of their higher end Drivo at +/- 1%. Said differently: My suspicion is that both units actually have the same OTS in them (despite being theoretically named differently) and that accuracy is likely identical on both. That’s (mostly) just a gut feeling.
Of course, the Flux is actually easily found now (and last year’s teething troubles are long ago history), whereas the Direto will be supply limited for probably a few months. The sound is a tiny bit louder on the Flux than the Direto, but I prefer the ‘cleaner’ sound on the Direto than the Flux.
I also prefer the fact that the Direto can easily fold up and be moved around, whereas the Flux lacks that capability. But again, to each their own.
Expect my full annual round-up of trainers in the week following Interbike (so Sept 25th), as I’d like to see how the new Bkool and Minoura offerings look in person. But neither company is introducing anything that impacts this specific category.
Wrap-Up:
So as I started off this post, I noted that I think the Direto is the ‘trainer to beat’ for the 2017-2018 trainer season. Obviously, that can be a somewhat confusing statement. Surely it’s not the highest end consumer trainer (I’d award that to the Tacx Neo, or perhaps the Wahoo KICKR+CLIMB combo). But it’s by far the best value, and virtually matches those other trainers when it comes to accuracy (at $300-$700 less for the base trainer). And that in my mind makes it the best all-around trainer of 2017.
Said differently: If my Dad were to ask which trainer to buy, this would be it.
Sure, it could be a tiny bit quieter (but still, it’s not much different than any other trainer). Or I suppose it could be certified as +/- 1% accuracy instead of +/- 2.5% (but really, all the data I see seems +/- 1% anyway). Or I suppose it could take 2 seconds instead of 3 seconds to shift 400w of range in ERG mode. But I don’t think that really matters to most people. It responds instantly in Zwift for racing, and it gives you plenty of money left over for purchasing other bike goodness. Or buying your significant other gifts. Your choice.
For those that want the absolute quietest trainer (Tacx Neo), absolute most road-like (Elite Drivo, KICKR or Neo), or most automated incline like (KICKR+CLIMB), then certainly there are other options at a significant premium. But for everyone that wants a fantastic trainer at a fantastic price, the Elite Direto wins this round.
With that – thanks for reading!
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Hopefully you found this review/post useful. At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love). As you probably noticed by looking below, I also take time to answer all the questions posted in the comments – and there’s quite a bit of detail in there as well.
If you're shopping for the Elite Direto (2018) or any other accessory items, please consider using the affiliate links below! As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. It doesn’t cost you anything extra, but your purchases help support this website a lot.
Since the Elite Direto (2018) is no longer sold, I recommend looking at Elite Direto XR:
This is a super basic trainer mat, which is exactly what you'll see me use. All it does is stop sweat for getting places it shouldn't (it also helps with vibrations too).
I use Apple TV for Zwift the vast majority of the time, but also just for watching YouTube/Netflix/etc on the trainer. The Apple TV remote sucks though. This $8 case fixes that, it's a silicone strap that makes it easy to grab, but also has a strap to easily place on the edge of your handlebars. Boom! Note: Not compatible with 2021 Apple TV Edition.
Here's the thing, some people like front wheel blocks, some don't. I'm one of the ones that do. I like my front wheel to stay put and not aimlessly wiggle around. For $8, this solves that problem. Note some trainers do come with them. Also note, I use a riser block with *every* trainer.
I've got three of these $12 fans floating around the DCR Cave, and I frequently use them on rides. They work just fine. Sure, they're not as powerful as a Wahoo Headwind, but I could literally buy 20 of them for the same price.
This desk is both a knock-off of the original KICKR Desk, but yet also better than it. First, it's got wheel locks (so the darn thing stays put), and second, it has two water bottle holders (also useful for putting other things like remotes). I've been using it as my main trainer desk for a long time now and love it. Cheaper is better apparently. Note: Branding varies by country, exact same desk.
This is by far the best value in trainer desks, at only $59, but with most of the features of the higher end features. It's got multi-tier tablet slots, water bottle holders, non-stick surface, adjustable height and more. I'm loving it!
One of the most popular trainer fans out there, rivaling the Wahoo Headwind fan in strength but at a fraction of the price. It doesn't have smartphone/ANT+/Bluetooth integration, but it does have secondary outlets. I've been using it, and a similiar European version lately with great success (exact EU variant I use is automatically linked at left).
I've had this for years, and use it in places where I don't have a big screen or desk, but just an iPad or tablet on my road bike bars.
And of course – you can always sign-up to be a DCR Supporter! That gets you an ad-free DCR, access to the DCR Quarantine Corner video series packed with behind the scenes tidbits...and it also makes you awesome. And being awesome is what it’s all about!
Thanks for reading! And as always, feel free to post comments or questions in the comments section below, I’ll be happy to try and answer them as quickly as possible. And lastly, if you felt this review was useful – I always appreciate feedback in the comments below. Thanks!
No, it’s not included in the Direto package. I suspect at this point they assume you’re either using Bluetooth Smart on some device, or that you already have one. Failing that, $11: link to amzn.to
I have just purchased a Direto and am not sure if I need a USB ANT+ dongle!
I will be using my non-bluetooth Laptop for Zwift and other platforms…….let me know how I connect the trainer to the laptop.
Yup, in short, you’d need the stick. Some ANT+ stick, really any stick.
It may be worthwhile checking in your circle of friends, especially runner friends. Many runners may have older Garmin Forerunner watches (made more than 3+ years ago) that had sticks that came with them that they might not be using anymore sitting in a desk drawer.
Hi Ray,
Great review,
about the delay in erg mode, I saw that if you slight reduce the cadence while the power increase seems to mitigate the problem, but it’s normal, it’s the time that the annoyng louder stepper motor need to move the magnet.
Anyway I’m very, very impressed about the power accurancy, it’s crazy specially at that price!
I’m one of the lucky people that had recived their Drivo on Thursday and I play with it all the weekend, also because of too many rain in Italy :-)
For anyone with Campy, you can get a modified Shimano cassette from Wheels Manufacturing that allows you to use the the shimano freehub body. It’s expensive, but I’ve used this on several trainer and it works perfectly with my campy drivetrain.
I’m a little confused about that cassette – 11-speed spacing should be the same on Shimano and Campagnolo cassettes (for all practical purposes) and are basically drop in compatible. That’s been demonstrated pretty much since they’ve were released, so you should be able to just use any old Shimano 11-speed road cassette with your 11-speed Campy drive train.
Yes, it does work, but the WM cassette has the spacing tweaked (and I think the cog profile) to make it work more smoothly with Campy shifters/chain…
It’s just quieter and shifts better.
The link you give is to run 11-speed Campy on a 10 speed Shimano body. Like the others said, just run an 11-speed shimano cassette and it’ll work with shimano sram or campy.
Thanks for the review — very helpful, as ever. One follow up question.
A few people on the Direto Facebook page are reporting the trainer has a distinct ‘old printer sound’ when adjusting resistance. You note the Direto is ‘middle of the road’ in terms of noise, but I was wondering if you’d noticed this buzzing sound or have any thoughts on how distracting / off-putting it is?
If I’ve skimmed through all those posts correctly, it’s actually just one person hearing a sound (and the rest referencing a circular reference of the same person in multiple sites).
If you’re not pedaling, you should hear a very slight sound when powering on the trainer and if changing in ERG mode. It does have similarities to an old printer, but that it’s about the same loudness as your cell phone vibrating on a couch in a quiet room (not a table, a couch). If it’s any louder than that, then something is defective/broken. You definitely can’t hear it after you pedal even the slightest bit, since it’s so quiet.
I agree with how Ray described when you hear the sound, and its volume. I didn’t even think twice about it until I read the post on the Facebook page. I always have headphones on when riding indoors so it’s not a factor for me at all.
I listened to both videos. From what I recall, mine sounds more like TK’s. Again, I wasn’t worried when I heard it. Probably best to let Elite listen and respond about noise levels and variance between trainers.
JK – what do you mean by “all the time”? Every time you plug it in? I’ve only used the trainer briefly, with an Elite app video (free one), for 15 minutes, and I don’t recall that same “plug in” noise again. But I was also watching a DVD with headphones on.
@Jason. All the time when on Zwift, with gradient and resistance changes you can hear the ‘matrix dot printer’ noise. Maybe I should wear headphones too ;-)
JK – thanks. Question (as I’ve never used these apps, yet) does the buzz happen when you change wattage or when the app increases decreases resistance, or both? And is the buzz the exact same as when plugging it in?
To test this out I went ahead and downloaded Zwift (7-day free trial).
It was on the London map, and not surprisingly the elevation/incline didn’t get too intense. I noticed some downhills at -3% and uphills at 4%. I left off the headphones and the fan. I pedalled for about 15 minutes. I didn’t here the buzz at all during this time. The plug-in buzz is loud enough that if it was happening during my ride I would’ve heard it, and again, I didn’t hear anything except for my pedalling. I also shifted several times, and went easier and harder. If this volume is the ‘normal experience’, I have zero complaints :-)
I have the “louder” “dot-matrix” buzzing. Honestly if others hadn’t brought it up I wouldn’t even have had any second thoughts about it. It happens on start up and occasionallyduring Zwift but it’s not really annoying (to me anyway). I’ve had a defective Flux so I’m definitely more paranoid than most, but for me would qualify as normal.
Definitely yes,
I do workout,so in erg mode and the speed it’s not enough to cover the buzz , I’m quite sure that with zwift as the speed is more, you don’t hear the buz at all.
In my opinion to accelerate the production they have jump something in the , so the product is working but you get some minor quirk.
Anyway today I will call Elite and ask for support for the buzz, but maybe someone like you Ray, that have a better/bigger impact with the Elite company, can call and ask for serious consideration of the problematic that someone seems to have.
Thank you Ray every time your word are welcome.
Hi Ray and thank you,
Today called Elite and they ask to me to send the video, I’m waiting for a answer.
It’s odd because it work correctly,well at the end of the day you can tolerate , even because at a certain point the sufferance is much bigger :-)
Hi Ray, some folk at Elite tell me that this different sound is because of two different brand of stepper motor, one work with an higher frequencies and it’s a bit louder, but they told that while pedaling the sound it’s the same……well it’s a lie.
Officially they will produce a video where demonstrate that, and of course I will respond with mine, while I’m doing an ERG workout.
The reason it’s quite simple….it work with higher frequencies every time and
is clearly audible while pedaling, it’s not a joke I’m deaf at 50% and in the same side of the stepper motor!!
I don’t know if laugh or cry.
I tried a workout in Zwift tonight, which I presume is ERG mode. I picked the Wringer, so after 8 min warmup you have 30s at 365w then 90w for 2:00. Maybe because I’m pedalling, but I didn’t hear the buzz as much as when I plug it in. So I can’t say if the volume of the buzz is as loud, and for as long. Bigger issue was that I couldn’t hit 365w :-( lol
Hi Ray,
I read you spoke with Elite today, may you have some news for the buzz issue?
Also I need some help from anyone intersted in this problem, because I have to send a video to Elite while riding, but after some test with the phone it’s very difficult to capture the buzz togheter with the other rumor, not because isn’t there but because of the limit of the phone microphone,so I need someone with a better microphone that can get the buzz while riding and after I will send to Elite, please help me.
Thank you.
So chatted with Elite a bit on this, and yesterday they spent some time doing some tests and putting together a video.
Essentially depending on different batches of trainers, the parts will result in different sounds for the moving magnet noise. Some quieter, some louder. As we’ve seen, some folks end up with quieter ones, others louder ones. Further, they noted that the length of the noise will depend on where it has to move from in it’s previous position, as well as whether it’s power on or steady-state.
Elite recorded a person on a trainer showing the sound alone (the louder variant), the trainer alone, and the sound + trainer.
Here’s that video (they just sent me a video file, so I stuck it up unlisted on YouTube): link to youtu.be
I can’t really argue with what the numbers show. It’s no doubt louder than what I’m hearing, but as the numbers show, it’s immediately drowned out by the sound of the trainer/gearing. :-/
Sorry Ray
I think could be a good idea if you ask to Elite to send to you ine ofthe new Direto unit with the louder motor and you can test it for rumor, what do you think?
It’s a mater of justice, I pay the same price as your but I got a much more louder unit than you, so why they don’t want to admit?
You know I’m sure that the number don’t speak nothing, it’s the frequencies the problem, the buzz is cleary audible while riding even with the same noise level.
For examp,e with number I can dimostrate that there are something after the death ;-)
Yeah, I guess at this point I’m just not sure there’s a real issue other than not liking that tone. It’s a different tone yes – but so is the gearing, the flywheel, and your fan.
That said, having different part suppliers in the same product line with quite a difference in the end-state output is kinda weird to me.
Question – do you think there would be any quality issues with the “louder” parts that are in some trainers? I’m generally fine with the noise, but I wouldn’t want inferior parts that may lead to other issues down the road. If it’s only a difference in sound levels, and no other differences, that is reasonable.
It’s like air conditioners for houses, when I had mine installed (someone I know well), he said you can pay $ extra for the quieter model, but the only advantage is that it’s quieter. Otherwise they’re the same.
I’m guessing they pass the same quality levels no matter the loudness. I think it’s simply just a case of limited availability of parts, sorta like how the power meter portion is currently the limiter on trainer production.
Ray, thank you very much for chatting with Elite and for providing the video.
I agree with Jason and feel it the same way: If it isn’t a matter of functionality I do not care much about the louder noise. But it’s definitely strange to sell so different units.
For what I can tell, it work like a charm, it’s another point there, it’s the point that with their choice has produced client A and client B.
I’m sure they did in faith, but the think remain, and also seems to refuse any critique from customere like me, who have problems with their choice
Regards.
The video from Elite does illustrate that drivetrain noise is louder than the beeping, although this may depend on whether a representative drivetrain, in terms of maintenance, was used to produce the video. It would also have been useful for them to record the bike in motion while the beeping occurs, to give us a more ‘real-world’ impression of how perceptible the noise is while riding.
The bit that concerns me is that Elite seems to have sent ‘quiet’ units to major reviewers prior to launch — indeed, the issue has only come to light after customers started to receive their Diretos. I’d be willing to bet the units displayed by Elite at Eurobike were also of the quieter variety.
All of which seems a bit disingenuous to me. If Elite were aware of a discrepancy between units then they should have made this clear at the outset. This is certainly the first time I’ve ever heard of such a difference between products of the same model number, without the difference being caused by manufacturing error etc.
My Direto has yet to be shipped by CT, so I don’t know whether I’ll have an effected unit or whether I’ll be bothered by the sound. I think mine is due to go out start of next week, so I have a few days to decide whether to switch to a different option (Flux or Kickr, if I can find one on a decent sale).
Just noticed that they did record the drivetrain and beeping noises at the same time toward the end of the video. Drivetrain certainly seems to drown out most of the beeping, although, given the high pitch of the beep, it’s definitely still perceptible.
And how we can be sure that other parts are the same. If Elite is showing off the silent unit, there also can be differences in the power measurement unit.
I lost my faith in Elite.
The users are only ones with this issue. Ray is happy with his premium version.
What’s funny here is this is the same sound that’s been on other Elite trainers for years, and it’s virtually never talked about.
As for your statement about accuracy differences, there’s really no basis for that. We know that all OTS components come from a single manufacturer, in Germany (a small company). After all, that’s why there’s limited production of Direto right now. In fact, I even met the inventor of OTS at Eurobike randomly.
I get that there’s weirdness between having two different motors, but it’s not something that extends beyond that sound. Interestingly, I think my pre-prod unit is actually louder. I’ll do a quick check tomorrow. My point being, it’s not something that I really even noticed/cared about at the time, since it’s been on Elite units for years.
I can’t speak for the past, it’s my first and maybe last Elite product, but because there is a precedent what TK said colud be true.
So could be very nice, if two people there with the buzzer unit and a power meter would share with us some power reading.
I mean, I don’t want to tellthat there isn’t the OTS, but who can tell to us if they did a good job while calibrating the device and with the same result of yours, or maybe yours it’s a bit tweaked to gain more point in your rewiew?
After you treachery your customer, it’s very diffucult to gain another time credit.
Look, with their video they said “hey the problem is yours, as you can see”, but it is not.
I was zwifting yesterday evening and during the ride I can hear the pemanent changing of resistance when I hit watts up to 300. To be clear here: the Direto is overall very silent which is true for the buzz of resistance change, too. Thus, when saying I can still hear it, it is really no problem regarding the overall sound.
I was worried by an earlier comment from Ray that this might be a malfunction or defect. Since Elite states that there is no problem with that sound and explains it by using a different motor, I tell myself not to worry about it. To be on the safe side on this I’m going to inform the seller and direto about this.
Two other remarks on quality control: The outer plastic shell of my Direto has a minor flaw where it is fit together with the other half. No big thing, but I would have expected that perfect quality control would have sort this piece out. Two stickers on the folding legs are missing. No big thing, too, but QC is not on top level here, that’s a fact.
Besides these minor flaws I really enjoyed the ride on the Direto an I’m looking forward to the winter season on a still great trainer. Considering the price I paid (699€) I can’t complain.
No further discussion on the resistance change buzz sound?
I care about the silence a lot since I want to be riding early morning hours (starting 5 AM) in a block of flats. I’m assuming using the ERG mode I can be riding hard while maintaining fairly low speed and in this case would be resistance change buzz be not too loud / annoying?
One more question – no such issue at all on any Drivo unit?
Similar to Easy’s post above, the buzz while riding is very quiet, and most often split-second as the motor is adjusting resistance in small increments (unless going up 100’s of watts…but that’s not loud either, to me). The sound of you pedalling (drivetrain) is not surprisingly, louder, as it would be on any trainer. Once you get going and stop trying to listen for stuff, you don’t notice anything.
Jacek – do you you have a current trainer that you use indoors at 5am? If no sound problems with your neighbors I would assume the same for the Direto. The overall sound video posted bub Ray covers this. And the one by Elite (that one might be on the FB page).
Just as a minor update, this morning I pulled out the prototype Direto and compared the sound to the production one. Sure enough, the prototype one is the louder variant. What’s funny here is that it never really occurred to me, since it’s the same sound as the Drivo and other trainers they’ve had previously. All of which is instantly drowned out by the noise of the drivetrain/etc.
I didn’t quite have time to make a video as I was running to catch a train, but it simply matches the sounds already published above.
Thought I’d add an update now I’ve put a few hours on my Direto. I have one with the louder motor, but I don’t notice it when riding. If I try and listen out for the noise, then it is perceptible over drivetrain noise (barely), but mid workout it’s not something I notice (exception being shifts of a large number of watts in erg mode — e.g. doing sprints and recovery intervals).
Very happy with the trainer overall and I’d definitely recommend it. I had been using a Kickr SNAP — the Direto both feels better and is much less hassle to set up. It’s really nice to be able to just ride without having to worry about advance calibration every time etc.
I think i got a direto from the same exact batch as you. Also no stickers and also outer plastic shell not completely aligned at the point in which they join… Did Direto reply to your message @Easy?
I recently purchased a Direto trainer. It does makes a “dot matrix printer” noise all the time. But it is not that annoying to me given the white noise from the fan, drive train noise, and music I am playing drown it out. I think it is a common “feature” of this trainer.
Hi Ray, I just set up my Direto and that “printer sound” you refer to and have illustrated in your video is not the one I’m getting from my unit. I get more of a low howl of the type old dot matrix printers would make when the printer head would slide across the page before printing started. I’ve attached a video….I think this may be what some of your readers are referring to.
Same here. Nothing like the quiet hum-type one you get from your unit Ray when you plugged it in your video. I contacted elite and they told me it’s normal. Perhaps normal for this trainer, but it is a downer. In ERG mode it’s not bad at all. But when riding around Zwift, it’s bad, and loud. I still stand behind my previous comments that it’s a bit slow to respond in Zwift in general (compared to my bushido), and I think that exacerbates the dot matrix printer noise.
I’ve got the same concern. I’ve spent the last 3 days trying to set mine up. Mine definitely sounds like starting up an old school printer when it starts up. Not to mention I cannot figure out how to get it calibrated within my Garmin 820. I’m either going 100 mph or 2.
Hi,
I have the Direto for 3 days and I have this mobile phone noise vibrating on a chair ;-), and this at the beginning of the slope of 7/8%, it does not bother me so much the quality of pedaling is much better than a tacx genius for example …
Raphael
I see that you’re looking to update the Annual Trainer Apps guide for October. Have you come across BigRingVR? It’s in an free open public beta atm, and I’ve been really impressed with it. (I’m in no way affiliated with it, I just like the app, and the developers are extremely responsive on Strava and Twitter).
Yup, I’ll ensure it’s on my list. Generally speaking my cut-off for apps is that they have had to release some sort of update since early spring. I feel like if they haven’t done that, then they aren’t really a real player in the space. Again, just a rough line in the sand.
I just learned about Big Ring VR thanks to your post. Direto is not listed as a supported trainer but am I correct in assuming that everything will work as perfectly as both Direto and BRVR both support ant+ fec?
I rode a bit with Big Ring and it work flaulessy with Direto, it’s a bit annoyng that if you stop a ride at certain point you have to create a custom one to restart from the last point, but apart this it’s a very good program and work great.
As someone new to smart trainers and the apps, I found it especially helpful that you covered TR and Zwift in the way you did. I was confused about how the resistance/watts of the trainer is controlled via the apps, though now I understand this much better.
I didn’t even realize that the Direto can provide cadence data (I received mine the other day, but have only tried briefly…as the weather has been great where I am). I’ll be using the Wahoo Cadence sensor though, and given some of the slight imperfections you pointed out, it’s probably worth the small price I paid.
Thanks for another great review Ray. I placed my order on CT on 8/12/17 and it should be delivered in two days.
Hope my experience will be as pleasant as yours.
Cheers
Hi I’ve just looked on the Evans cycles site and they will be shipping these shortly however it only mentions suitability for sram and Shimano cassettes no mention of campagnolo
For everyone interested, speaking with a tecnician at Elite, he told me that the android application will support the pedaling analysis shortly, and that they are tweaking the algoritm to speed up a bit the things while there are big wattage differences in ERG mode.
Is there any direct drive trainer that can work with a 8-speed shimano cassette, maybe with some spacers? I’ve an old alloy bike solely responsible for trainer duty, I was using it with a Tacx Flow but it died recently, I would love a direct drive but don’t want to shell out for a groupset upgrade.
Another option I’m looking into is a Kickr Snap + cheapish powermeter (Favero maybe) on a later time and pair them together. For my tri and road bike I already have a P2max.
Now that you mention, probably it would work since the 11-speed chain would only be narrower, I would only need an 11-speed shifter and and an 11-speed derailleur, which I may find them cheap used.
You might not need any of that, I think the chain will wrap around the jockey wheels of the existing derailleur. And you don’t really need to shift with an ERG trainer so just get it index to mesh with one of the cogs of the cassette and it should all work as is.
Indeed, but shifting would be useful when on Zwift (although I only use it in the off-season). But I could get a shifter only and use the current derailleur, I’m sure it doesn’t have the range to do 11 but it may work for 9/10 sprockets.
I’m just rambling here…
Anyway, thank you for your feedback, it’s indeed an option I haven’t though before and might work, albeit a little frankensteinish :)
I may be wrong, and dcrainmaker’s snap review surely tells otherwise, but I’m not sure on how reliable the snap can be week after week, but as I said, I might be, and probably am, wrong.
Until recently I didn’t care about reliable numbers, I was only using a Tacx Flow and the numbers were reproducible, so they were good enough for training, but now with a real PM on my main bike I would like to track accurately my weekly TSS, and use the same power ranges for both indoor and outdoor (although these might differ a little).
If I go with the Snap, before investing in another PM I will compare it with my power2max and if the numbers are accurate enough I’ll call it quits.
For the Snap, and I have an older one and not the new Snap2, power readings are flakey until it warms up. This takes about 7-10 minutes and I notice a significant jump in power…maybe 30 watts or so. I currently have it set up inside (Texas) so the temps are cooler (75F) and it does warm with use. Once warm it matches reasonably well with my P1 pedals. I exclusively use Zwift and use smoothing so Zwift does not pick up peaks but Strava does. Since the last Zwift update, I am loathe to use the spindown function as I think it drives the power numbers a bit too low as compared to the P1s.
Thanks for the writeup Ray – mine is scheduled for delivery from CT on Wednesday! One minor suggestion I’m guessing you’ve already considered – for the comparison tool it would be nice to have some sense of dimensions/mass – I get this is difficult for trainers given the shapes. I’ll be moving mine around regularly, so one of the (many) reasons I’m excited about the Direto is my sense it is lighter and “folds up” smaller than the Kickr. We shall see soon!
RE: K Dub.
I was looking for the dimensions too & DC was my first thought, then the manufacturer then google, finally i have some ‘possibly’ correct dimensions from a web retailer – but they could be hooey….
Size (L x W x H): 840 x 650 x 550 mm
Now which dimension refers to which – you’ll have to guess :) link to elite-it.com
Per Clever Training’s site:
Space occ. when unfolded (lxd):840 x 650 mm (33.07 x 25.59″)
Space occupied when folded(lxdxh):300 x 650 x 550 mm (11.81″ x 25.59″ x 21.65″)
Since the width is what shrinks when folded, that means the width with legs folded out for stability should be the 33.07″ dimension.
I reckon a DIreto with a bluetooth cadence sensor (Damn you Vector 2!!!) is looking like the way for me!
I’d generally do any sprints less than 30s in slope mode anyway as the targets are nearly always wrong when based on % of FTP so the extra 1-2s lag over the likes of a KICKR shouldn’t be an issue.
Hopefully order next month, hopefully the backlog at CT won’t be too long by then :-)
Looks like the Direto and the Drivo both do pedal analysis, only the Directo is 12 points and requires an app to be bought and 24 point and comes with the Drivo. link to drivo.cc
Wonder how that compares with pioneer’s pedal analysis.
Doesn’t look like you can adjust the height of where the rear attachment is so be pretty hard to make it not use a block. Its compatible with both road and mountain bikes so the size of the wheels it has to support are different plus a 23mm wide tire take less space then 32mm so that could raise or lower the front
Will the Drivo be able to get dual left an right power measurement through a firmware update or is it hardware related? I have the Drivo already and kind of wish I would have waited for this….
Impressed, and think that I will upgrade from my Vortex. Ready to order, but the the Bkool Smart Air suddenly appears in newsletters from vendors – link to bkool.com
Any impressions on that one? It’s more expensive, but seems very impressive in power and lack of noise.
Yup, I’ve got meetings already set for next week. They didn’t have a unit at Eurobike, but will have one for Interbike. It’s interesting for sure, but we’ve only seen renders, which I suspect means it’s going to be on a further timeable than other trainers this summer.
One feature I learned about on the Kickr that is pretty dang cool is that it will sync with your power meter (for me a Stages left only) and adjust the resistance based on what the Stages is reporting (versus the internal strain gauge). To me it means having a more synced up experience between road and trainer (I think).
Will the new Elite trainer do something similar? I didn’t see it specifically mentioned in the (always overhwelming) review.
Is that really trainer dependent? Couldn’t software see the “real” power meter is reading 200 watts while the trainer is set for 215 and know the trainer should be set higher if you really want 215 watts? It could learn the offset over time (its probably not just adding a percent or a constant number)
I do the same in Zwift. Directo reports about 10% lower. Who knows if that’s drivetrain lose, left-leg stronger or Stages being off. But I’m with you, I want to have the same metrics as I do on the road
Just got the Direto…finally calibrated it and got 6393 as a calibration number. Is that in the ballpark? Do the lights continue to blink even after you connect and see data on your computer program (Perfpro)?
Just got the Direto and calibrated at 6440 in PerfPro BUT my speed is showing above 100km/h …?
I also find the derailleur cage to close to the unit while on the 28 sprocket.
My lights continue to blink on PerfPro.
That’s what I got too, but I have no idea if that’s good. The Direto seems a bit higher than my 4iiii PM, but I don’t have a proper data analysis tool like Ray’s
I am very interested in the real world accuracy of this.
I have an (otherwise much loved) Kickr (1) which reads 8% above my P2M power meter. Although they advertised it as being +/- 2% accurate, Wahoo fitness tell me that “8% is not outside the normal range”.
I would like to know how Elite would respond if I bought a Direto and it was this inaccurate. Is my expectation that expensive trainers should match their advertised specifications unreasonable?
Others that have tested Direto accuracy are reporting the same as I. So I’m pretty sure all of us are real-world.
At the same time, I’d be curious who at Wahoo says +/- 8% is normal? +/- 4%, probably possible given measurement in two locations. Also – have you tried using the far newer 2017 KICKR firmware update that applies to the KICKR1 to change how power is measured?
I had the same experience at Wahoo. They brushed me off when I emailed to inquire why my Kickr V1 is 10% higher than my P1 pedals. Note, the P1s measure in line with a PT hub I have so the Kickr is odd man out.
I may get a nice Computrainer off Ebay for $300 or so and sell the Kickr. DC, do you think 300 reasonable for a GOOD used CT??
You might want to do a quick comment regarding what you think are acceptable power measurement variations i.e. 2.5%, 5%, XX% etc. Mine at 15-16 watts variation @ 200 watts is quite frustrating. BTW my Kickr has latest firmware, carefully done zero offset etc.
I bought mine direct from Wahoo in Sept 2015 so it should be manufactured after the spate of QC issues they had with the V1s circa 2014.
Crank/spider/pedal to spider/pedal/crank region power meter: +/- 4% total swing (as it’s +/- 2% for each unit typically). I might alot another 1% at best for loses in a crank arm from say the pedal to the spider.
Downwards from crank/pedal to drive train to trainer, hub, wheel: Reduce by 1-3% for drivetrain inefficiencies (usually 3-10w depending on how clean/dirty).
The PowerTap G3 hub is always a bit of an international man of mystery in these equations as many people in the industry believe it’s purposefully skewed slightly higher to have originally matched the SRM units years ago so that test folks would say it was fine (regardless of whether or not that true). So take that tidbit for what its worth.
Thats not happy news since my Kickr measures 9-10% higher (not lower) than the P1s. It would be a unique bike that gains power through the drive train as opposed to losing it.
A friend has a Computrainer. I’m going to simultaneously measure P1 pedals and a PT hub against the CT. That should tell the tale.
Just to clarify though – with your KICKR are you using the newer 2017 firmware on it (even if an old KICKR)? And did you do an advanced spindown as well?
I have a Diverge Comp 2016 with SCS or when a use my summer Wheels a diffrent hanger that is NON SCS. I belive my hub is 135×12 (DT 350 hub with centerlock)
Can this trainer work with this? You said 142×12 in but do that mean 135×12 will work aswell?
Stupid question: I have a pedal-based powermeter on my bike. With this kind of trainer…would i switch off the pm and rather use the integrated one? If so, whats the advantage?
Generally speaking if people have a power meter on their bike, they’ll record from that same unit inside and outside, so the numbers are totally consistent. Yet at the same time, if you’re only seeing the numbers differ by a couple watts – I wouldn’t fret it.
It’s more of a concern if you’re seeing a 10-20w+ offset (which then brings up other concerns).
I use the App to record the trainer (Snap) and the head unit (Fenix 3) to record my P1s. Dump both into Strava and compare the power readings. In Strava you can “hide” an exercise to not double count. You may have to edit one of the files (Fit File Tools) with a time change as Strava will not double load if a second exercise comes across as a double.
I have been testing my Direto over two different rides now and it seems that I have a +6 % difference (excel comparison on two different files for each ride) on the work intervals between my Stages PM and the Direto Trainer (Direto measuring higher). Given the accuracy that is stated by the company and this review, I am starting to doubt my L/R balance. I am planning to check the calibration figure on the Direto, just to make sure the tension on the belt is OK. Then I will try to verify the L/R balance (estimation) given by My E-Training app and try to match this to my Stages PM. Does anybody have experience with the app and the L/R balance estimation? I figure that if I have 47-53% L/R balance this can explain the difference. This makes it a little (OK very) hard to do ERG intervals having to push 20W extra on an FTP interval.
Update
Looks like I have a slight different offset number after calibration than the one mentioned on the bottom of the trainer 6495 vs 6497 from factory. The manual states I should tension the belt slightly and re-calibrate and check the value again. This process should be iterated until the same value is achieved. I have asked Elite if they see an issue with the drop in the the value. As I do not know what that number stands for I do not know if it is a significant difference in offset value.
As for the L/R balance, the free trial provided by Elite does not include the pedal analysis tool. I should fork out another 10 EUR just to check out the functionality. Shame, they could have at least provided a trial version for a few weeks.
My Drivo was reading about 20W too high out of the box. I takes about 1h of warmup before calibration (yes the drivo also needs a calibration) to get reasonable close to my power2max. But still, each ride there is about a 20minute warmup until the power reading stabilize. Interestingly, my calibration number is also lower after I did my own calibration. However, the Drivo is still reading about 10W higher which is odd because usually the power2max should read higher being a crank based powermeter. Adding up all these numbers would mean my power2max is reading about 15 to 20 less, which seems also a bit strange. Maybe, the are adding a factor for die Drivo power to take drivetrain losses into account?
But I also checked Ray’s power comparison and for example the 30/30 intervalls the mean-max curve is withing 2-3 watts however, the during the Zwift workout the bepro pedals are reporting suddenly 10 watts less. I wouldn’t call this “crazy close”.
Christian, are you just using the Elite app from your phone, My calibration seems so fast. It prompts me to start pedaling, then about 5-6 seconds later it prompts me to speed up, then it tells me to stop pedaling, then a few seconds later its done. Is that all there is to it
I don’t have the app or stages but I’ve got Vector pedals which give true L/R balance and I know for me I can range anything from 47/53 to 53/47 so coupled with the actual accuracy of the power measurement a left only could have me out by +/- 10%. I don’t know how useful the Direto app will be at genuinely giving L/R balance as it has no way to distinguish between pulling up on one pedal v pushing down on the other.
Even though my power meter gives me a true balance, I never do anything with it, it’s just the fact it gives you a total power number that I find handy given that my balance does drift.
Can I ask you, what value (diameter) you used in the Elite-App to calibrate?
And what diameter do you use on the controlling device (in my case Garmin 520)?
I set it to 2070 on the Garmin and got an average speed of 37 today (with 208 Watts) on my Ride…
“Should the software/app/device employ the Speed & Cadence protocol to detect speed, you must set a wheel circumference value that equals the actual wheel divided by 12.1. For instance, if wheel circumference is 2095mm, the value to input as circumference is 2095/12.1 = 173mm.”
Given the fact that you aren’t actually putting a wheel on it, it’s a bit weird (but not Elite’s fault here), so just go with 173mm to make your math life easier.
(Don’t feel silly, I also missed it in the manual back in July when I asked Elite the same thing.)
Thanks!
I already read that part… What is a bit confusing, if i put in this value in the Elite App, it automaticaly gives me the value divided by 12.1, so if I enter 2097 (on the app) and press OK, i get a value of 172.
I got an answer on the Elite-Direto-Facebook group, they say that on the app i should simply set 2096 and the app will calculate this value (172)…
If I set a value of 173 on the Garmin, i get a speed around 3 km/h :D
Btw – as a quick aside, if you’re using the controlling device of an Edge 520 – be sure you’re pairing as an FE-C unit, and not the speed/cadence/power sensor variants.
A little confused here…actually very confused :)
So, on my EDGE 820 when I search for new sensors I see indoor trainer and speed/cadence sensors. Adding both, correct? For speed/cadence enter wheel size 173, in indoor trainer circumference default at 2096, leave it as it is?
Also, when tried to calibrate using EDGE target speed blank, current speed zero… pedal for a few seconds, get message speed is sufficient, calibration complete and no return value…
Am I missing something?
I wouldn’t expect so anytime soon. At this point it’s simply supply and demand. Until there’s enough supply of Direto’s, you’re unlikely to see Tacx shift prices.
“In fact, the KICKR 2 and KICKR 3 showed that ditching a power meter could improve accuracy since it was one less component to break during shipping (which is what was occurring for KICKR 1 folks)”
What do KICKR 2&3s have if they don’t have a power meter?
Separately, I think you mean “rein in” vice “reign in”
@GPSIF
The later Kickr models – and the original Kickr since the beginning of this year after a firmware update – use a power calculation based on modelling the brake itself rather than using the strain gauge based power-meter (electrical characteristics, e.g. you know the power you’re putting into the electromagnets, the physical properties of the damping disc or what-have-you and where it is, it’s speed and so an). It’s a general technique that’s been used for donkeys years – Wahoo showed a number of benefits using it on the Kickr 1 over the power-meter, so they must be doing the sums pretty decently :)
Thanks for the review! I am going back and forth between a direct drive trainer or a stand alone spin bike; i am a bigger rider and can push above 2k watts, so i need something that stays rock solid to do my intervals against. Which of the direct drives, at any cost, are the best at being rock solid for an erratic, fool-hardy out of the saddle sprinter?
Hi,
is the Direto able to support 135x10mm axis ?
As the interhal hub provides enough diameter for 142x12mm I would assume so.
But are there any adaptors available ?
No, it supports 135×5 but not 135×10. In talking to Elite about it this morning they are going to work on a solution to see that at some new units going out can include support for it, and then figure out a retrofit solution for existing units (that would likely require some sort of service, but still TBD).
I’m unsure what practical benefits you’d be getting extra for the additional $ 200-250 beyond more grunt on very steep climb simulations (which may, of course, be important for you).
I thought my 10-sd shimano cassette was installed fine, but I was putting the bike on today and realized there was some play. I tightened it down and it still had play. When the shop installed it they took it off a wheel as is…which has a spacer toward the hub. The instructions show two spacers if a 9-10 speed cassette. So I guess I need another spacer by the hub? Spacing between the chain rings is fine.
Looking for feedback and suggestions on the proper spacer thickness for a Tiagra Shimano 10-speed cassette on the 11 speed trainer hub.
I just received my elite direto over the weekend and placed both of the spacers supplied with Elite’s new trainer on the trainers hub for the same cassette on my bike’s rear wheel.
My bike shifts perfectly when using this cassette on my my rear wheel out on the road. When I swap my trainer to it’s identical dedicated cassette and shift into my largest cog in the rear the bike chain comes off. To me this indicates the spacers are too much. There is also alot of slippage in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hardest gears in the rear wheel. I can get away with ERG trainer sessions and using a non-slip cog ,but it’s frustrating if I want to do anything with Zwift outside of workout mode.
I’m not sure the thickness of the spacers in Elite’s trainer box ,but I was wondering if other people had to purchase different spacers to make both road riding and trainer riding compatible without needing to always adjust your rear derailleur!
I am really close to pulling the trigger on this one. But I am wondering – and this applies to turbos in general – how important “accuracy” really is. Most of us at this price point probably already have expensive power meters and will be using the power match feature. So as long as these are accurate (or at least consistent) when we are below target wattage on Zwift or TR the resistance should get harder and vice versa when we are above target wattage. Here I have seen massive variability across the smart trainers I have tried. A cheapy cheap Elite Qubo Smart B+ was really good and responsive (but not too responsive, i.e., you don’t rocket up to 600w from 150w in under a second) while the Snap I am about to return was a disaster.
I get what you say about the cheapy, in terms of wattage if you have a PM.
For me, I have a left side only 4iiii, so I always wonder what my true power is. I have a Vortex Smart and the reason I am considering jumping up to the Direto is purely that I want a wheel off trainer because I don’t feel all that steady when I really amp up the effort. When I got the 4iiii and Vortex last year I was pretty new and my power output wasn’t that great. A year of good training has changed that, and I want to feel rock solid when I push, not like I could go flying forward at any second.
Hi RichieMc,
personally I see dependable high accuracy in trainer as being valuable because
1) you can use a second bike without a power meter (and I have a few of those…) sitting permanently on the trainer
2) you can use the trainers power to compare with what you get from your bikes power meter so you will more easily notice your bikes (or trainers) power meter losing accuracy…
having said that its worthwhile always using the same power meter for consistency.
Hey Ray, thanks for the excellent reviews. I´m thinking of upgrading from my Kickr Snap to a Direct Drive trainer. Would the Direto an upgrade in terms of accuracy and road feel or should I just bite the bullet and get the real Kickr?
Having spent time on a Snap tonight and being increasingly frustrated with getting it accurate, I’d say it’s a definite upgrade just there alone. Let alone all the other reasons.
After being undecided between the Snap or spend a little extra on a Direto, I thinks this settles it :) My turbo bike is all year round on the turbo, and is used on average 2 times/week, having to spin down every time (and not even be sure if the numbers were accurate) seems to be a way to stressful.
I went the Direto route because I wanted the direct drive trainer so that I can cut down on prep time. Anything to make riding less work/stress, the better (save the work for riding).
I bumped into this review oddly just after I completed a joyful session with my Direto and Zwift…probbly not worth a cent what I’m saying but now it’s dinner and red wine :)
While elite continue to implement their resistance at 5% gradient like levels of inertia I just have no interest in them.
People querying ‘road feel’ are on to the right track. The neo can simulate almost road levels of inertia and hence I can hold my tight hip angle tt and tri position like on the road.
Lazily engineered efforts from elite and most others have my legs begging for mercy at the same wattage.
Erg mode is particularly bad for this. Not an issue on a road bike but I can’t understand why only tax have made a serious stab at this. Discounting crazy stuff like the lynx.
People obsessed with Erg mode due to concern over hitting wattage intervals precisely are missing the wood for the trees IMHO.
Traditionally elite have always had abysmal inertia to their trainers. 300w say on the flat with a tailwind feels dramatically different to 300w into a headwind on a climb. Their trainers have always felt like the latter. Stevenage irwin the UK tter did a lot of work on this mapping kinetic energy VS wattage and gave feedback to the tacx folk who I believe then implemented ‘tri’ mode on slope on the neo.
Meanwhile elite make trainers than an average cyclist has to use in the inner chain ring. The higher inertial load makes cycling at a tight hip angle much much easier. Hence why I can do hours on my neo or Kurt kinetic with big wheel but after 10mins on an elite I have to sit up at the same wattage.
And what Elite trainer specifically have you tried?
If you compare a cheap $200-$300 Tacx trainer to a cheap $200-300 Elite trainer, yes, the road feel isn’t as awesome at all. But on both brands once you clear $899 and above, they are totally different beasts.
Depending on which Turbo Muin you have (some are electronically controlled, others aren’t). But yes, it’ll be different. With an electronically controlled trainer you set the wattage based on apps/devices, versus a fluid/mag trainer, it’s based on a set power curve.
Still considering whether to do an upgrade since I ordered the Assioma… and hope I can sell the Turbo Muin (not smart, serial 30000+, with a Misuro+). Any idea what a realistic price would be? I paid around 450e, that of course doesn’t set the market value. Around 250e or maybe 300?
Does anyone, other than me, have problems contacting CleverTraining UK via email? I’ve been trying to cancel my direto order for two days now but there have been no feedback yet. I hope I didn’t end up in a spam box.
I just purchased an Elite Direto smart trainer. I seem to remember reading detailed instructions on how to set it up to use with Zwift with a large television monitor instead of a laptop. I recall using a dongle was necessary. Unfortunately, I can’t find the article. Does anyone remember this article? I believe it was on this website or possibly the Zwift website. Thank you.
To clarify, you will be using a laptop, and you want to know how to output to a TV screen? If you’re laptop has an HDMI port you can go that route (there may be a dongle involved). If no HDMI port, there is a dongle that makes the conversion for you.
I used my iPhone and output (screen mirror) to my TV with an Apple Lightning to AV Adapter (Shane Miller has video(s) about this on Youtube).
Great review again! What I’m curious about, and it’s maybe more a more common question about direct drive trainers, is how these perform at lower speeds. It states that it can produce 1400W at 40 kmh, but what are these numbers at lets say 10-15 kmh? The same holds for the maximum incline, as this is just a conversion of the maximum wattage at a certain speed. In other words, is there some sort of working range figure (wattage versus speed) for the direto?
I’m also interested in this. Could someone owning a direto give us the maximum wattage the trainer can deliver at, for example, 8km/h, 10km/h, 12km/h, 15km/h and 20km/h? I would really appreciate it cause that data can help people igure out the maximum slope the trainer can simulate for their particular weight. Thanks.
If it helps I asked Elite about max wattage at 30km/h which basically equates to 50rpm in 52/11 gearing. My thought process being that’s close to the lowest cadence I’m likely to be able to sustain on a climb. At that speed they state 990w, so realistically you should be able to mimic any climb you’ll be capable of doing.
Not sure if that fully answers your question but hopefully it helps :-)
It’s from the Elite forum: link to forum.elite-it.com
Anyway the curve it’s only an idea of the response of the trainer because it depend directly from the calibration of it self.
Thanks Andrea, that is exactly what I was looking for. From the curve and using interpolation one can approximate the power for any desired speed and then, using any bike calculator and the weight of bike+cyclist, the maximum slope the trainer can simulate.
Lee Sutton, I agree with what you say but my question concerned the simulation of climbs at the true speed real climbing takes place. Using high gearing (and therefore high speed) almost any trainer is valid (at least for my poor physical capacity) to simulate climbs. Thanks to both.
If fact, observing the curve for the elite drivo, one can see that i can deliver 460w at 10km/h whereas at that speed direto can deliver only 197w. The difference between them is huge at those low speeds.
This one is from the Drivo……..it’s a beast!
I’m also search at this for the same reason, but for the moment I don’t found anything can reach the maximum for the Direto.
Andrea,
from link to bikecalculator.com
and a total weight (bike+cyclist) of 80kg, climbing at 10km/h a 8% slope requires 200w (more or less the 196w Elite Direto can deliver). Therefore, for me at 10 km/h Direto can only simulate 8%.
As another example, at 12km/h it delivers (using linear interpolation) 274w, which again for 80kg results in a simulation of 9%.
So it seems the simulation of 14% is either for very light riders or for very powerful riders who can climb very fast. In fact, in order to simulate a slope of 11% I would need to be able to climb at 19 km/h (536w) which, of course, is totally imposible.
Yes it is correct……but it’s for this reason that there are premium trainer ;-)
Anyway i found that for ERG mode it’s not an issue at all, you have plenty of power to fight against and in simulator mode I never found nothing near 14% of slope.
Look…..if you want to climb some 14% slope you have to train in ERG mode before :-)
or spend almost 1100/1200 euro against 700/800 for the Direto.
I went a step further with the Direto power curve data and plotted (using the bike calc data) the max gradient that can be simulated as a function of power for me (155 lbs/18 pound bike (70.5kg/8.2kg)
This is great info! To make an even better comparison, does anyone have this same data for Tacx Flux? I don’t really understand why this is not part of any review out there, as the maximum wattage as a sole number is not that informative.
yes, I think so… please Ray can you help us asking to tacx the same information?
What do you think to implement this kind of information/test in your review?
Thank you.
It’s something I can try and get from different companies.
Testing it personally would be tricky, since it’s not always super clear when you hit that envelope. Meaning, it’d be difficult to know whether the trainer is faking the higher grade, since most people wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between 8% and 10% while indoors without context (changing between 8% and 10% sure, but not if it’s the whole lobster slowly boiling in a pot thing).
Yes of course, in my mind you can ask to the companies their data and at the least you can do a reverse engineering with a separated power meter, to confirm their data, for example from 8km/h to 14km/h with step of two km/h, but really it’s only an idea.
What it’s important for me is that I can see the characteristic of a trainer at very low speed.
It’s a kind of data very useful to see the capacity to simulate a real climb.
I would agree it’s a very important piece of information for those looking at low speed efforts (such as climbing sims) – it’s certainly what guided my last choice of trainer as that scenario was one of the main reasons I got a smart trainer. Tacx used to have a couple of brake characterisation graphs like the Elite ones up on the product pages, certainly for the Genius and believe one other at least – can’t see them now on the new style site alas – might be worth asking if they still have them…
Edit.
There is a small amount of stuff in the trainer comparison document here
Hmm, this is new information to me. I may need to cancel my order now as being 100Kg+ it’s just not going to work too well for me on the climbs. Anybody any advice? (apart from drop 20Kg :D )
I just purchased Direto trainer and have a small problem with initial setup. In My E-Training app (Android version) there is no Trainer sensor calibration option available. Should be in Advanced Configuration manu. Any help? How can I performe calibration?
There is an option called Powewr smoothing but cannot be entered.
This is my first time with a smart trainer and I’ve come across some oddities using Zwift. A few days ago, I was unable to calibrate the trainer because the Elite App wasn’t working. I was on the Richmond course and every little change in elevation (changes you couldn’t even visually see) created a very noticeable “wall” in power. The main Richmond climb was a bear, as it probably should be at over 10%. Now, calibration complete, I’m on the London route and on a 5% grade I can pedal up in the 52 big ring several cogs down at 90 rpm with power around 175 watts or so. No possible way I could do that in real life without seriously cranking and shortly dying. I have realism at 100% and the trainer isn’t in ERG mode (made that mistake once). Seems strange?
If you calibrate properly and use Zwift the inclines should translate to expected resistance. I did the KOM on Zwift the other day and I spun in an easier gear and had to give it. My speed would drop to an expected number, then increase as it flattened out or went downhill. I did a workout in ERG mode and when I was in a big gear and the watts increas to close to 400 I couldn’t do it…which tells me it’s working, even if my body wasn’t ;-)
To those who have the new Direto and have tested it in ERG mode (trainerroad or otherwise), what has been you experience? I remember that with the more expensive Drivo there were quite a lot of complaints about Drivo overcompensating/fluctuating in ERG mode. Perhaps these have been individual setup cases or maybe this have been solved with Drivo FW upgrade.
But I would just like some comments from Direto users here. Thanks!
My first ride on the Direto using Trainer Road in Erg mode it was slow to respond and didn’t lock in the power like the Wahoo Kickr I was borrowing did. It looked a lot like Ray’s ride on Zwift. At a lower cadence it responded faster but a higher cadences from 100-110 it took a while for the trainer to bring the power back down. I was using the built in cadence meter on the Direto. Not sure if that had something to do with it. I thought I read or saw somewhere that someone said if you naturally spin at a higher cadence you will want to use the cadence meter on your bike.
Either way, I’d reach out to TrainerRoad support and they can take a look at the log files and see what might be up. They’re pretty easy to hit up and get digging into it.
I did contact TrainerRoad initially because I couldn’t find the calibration function for the Direto in the app. I was having issues with the Elite Android app. They told me it’s not there yet because Elite hasn’t sent them the calibration template and instructions for the spin down speed. When I mentioned the issues with Erg mode the initial thought was that the Direto connected to TrainerRoad as a power meter instead of a smart trainer. I double checked it and it was connected as a smart trainer. I did some tests with both Bluetooth Smart and ANT+ FE-C connections on two different devices. It just didn’t respond and lock in the power like the Kickr I had been borrowing did. TrainerRoad did tell me that they haven’t gotten their hands on a Direto yet to test. Considering TrainerRoad just released the new app and the Direto just hit the market I figure there may be issues on both ends and that TrainerRoad and Elite will work to get them resolved. The other issue maybe in what I’m doing. It’s hard to tell at this point. I haven’t had a whole lot of time to mess with it at this point. Considering the positive reviews that you and Shane Miller gave the Direto I am more inclined to think the issues may be on my end. I just need to spend some time messing with it.
Based on my limited experience with a borrowed kickr snap and my power tap hub, I noticed that the incredibly flat power profile that the kickr was reporting was largely artificial: if I eased up the cadence (and hence the power, briefly), the kickr power profile in trainer road would stay almost completely flat but my power tap (monitored on my edge 520) would show the expected power fluctuations (often quite large). Can you post a screenshot of your trainerroad workout to give us a feel for the magnitude of the power fluctuations while in erg mode?
Hi,
I use erg mode and trainerroad without any problem like this.
It seems to me like when you change the percentage in the workout and then you move it again at 100% it produce the same beaver.
I am seeing something similar using Xert workout player on a Garmin 520. Want to try myETraining before I point fingers. I do not know if it´s just because the Direto reports actual power with more resolution.
Here is an erg workout from the elite app. In short, there is more variability than you see with a kickr, but I think it is more realistic based on the subtle changes in cadence/power output throughout the interval. Interval average power was within a couple watts of the erg setting.
I went back and looked at the numbers from my test session and just as you experienced they were within a couple of watts of the target power for the interval. The Kickr was always a few watts off as well for an interval. I guess I got to caught up in the nice pretty straight lines that were recorded from the Kickr compared to what the Direto was spitting out. The other factor could be the smoothing rate I was using. I know I set it to 3 seconds in the TrainerRoad App but I haven’t had any luck so far setting it in the Elite app. Is it jus me or are other people having issues with the Android version? I have it downloaded on an Ipad and will try that out tonight.
The Kickr is more or less reporting the resistance setting, not the actual instantaneous power. With trainerroad it always seems to plot unsmoothed data on the large screen but it will post smoothed data on the minimized screen, at least on the PC version.
Thanks for the info. I have only used TrainerRoad on an Android tablet or phone and it just showed the smoothed data on the graph when using the Kickr.
Just wanted to add a follow up to my perceived issues. I have done several more rides on my Direto with TrainerRoad and everything is working just fine. I have found in Erg mode that it responds best, especially to the recovery intervals if you ride in the small ring up front and somewhere in the middle of your rear cassette. After talking to TrainerRoad it sounds like if riding in the big ring up front the trainer reaches its minimum resistance and the only way to bring the power down to match the interval is to really slow down your cadence. Since I’ve shifted down to the little ring I have had no issues with the trainer responding to the appropriate power setting.
I’ve been using TR, ERG mode, and I’m also using small ring in the front and middle of the cassette and find that everything works well. It’s funny, I was going to try the big ring yesterday, and didn’t, and now I won’t…thanks.
I weigh 100kg and I can’t put out more than 400w at low cadence for more than a minute or two. The Direto can provide (on 52/11 gearing) over 900w at 50rpm so it has plenty of head room for any climb I could ever contemplate attempting.
Speed on an indoor trainer genuinely shouldn’t matter as really you want to train by power and duration at specific cadences.
Yes, technically when you use as certain % slope it won’t be as per the real world for anyone other than the rider they’ve modelled it on but that isn’t what power based training is about. Zwift make their own speed calculation so all the slope does in there is effectively control your cadence. So if you want to make a climb harder (i.e. lower cadence) just don’t do it in your lowest gear.
Has anyone found an app with *free* ERG based workouts, where you select from a library and it controls your trainer? I know of TrainerRoad ($), and will try it once winter settles in…but for now I’m looking for a free app that I can use indoors, for time periods where I’m typically riding outdoors (a few times per month). I went through DC’s trainer app guide, but a couple didn’t seem to pair with anything but the Kickr (such as Hurts Ergo). I’m looking for something with a searchable library, that is easy to use; I don’t even want the rides to be downloadable or anything, just simple to use and good interaction with the Direto.
If you have a Direto you should also have a subscription to Elite My E-Training included – the basic version of that has workouts and the ability to create new ones I believe. Have a butchers here
Ray, the power graph in Zwift in ERG mode that you posted (link to media.dcrainmaker.com) looks REALLY choppy. Did you have it set to Instant interval vs 3 second smoothing? Were you just messing around constantly increasing/decreasing your RPMs? Or holding same RPMs? That last 10 min segment is all over the place. I’ve got a Tacx Bushido currently (considering upgrading), and its much much much smoother. Of course I HATE the spin downs on the Bushido, but that’s another story…. but cringing a little bit looking at how much variation there is in power, with this trainer, and zwift ERG mode…..
That’s actually due to the way Zwift Erg mode works. It’s not a very ‘firm’ ERG mode like many other traditional apps. Rather, it gives you ‘flex’ so that you have to work to hold the power yourself.
Beginning looks ok, then at some point graph got shifted. Not sure how to fix that, offset would move entire length and make it look even worse.
On side note old printer sound is present, but with drive train and fan noise I couldn’t hear it during the Zwift session. I’m hearing some creaking noise, but I think it sounds more like it coming from bike, not trainer
I find that the noises of the bike are accentuated while on the trainer. I get some drivetrain noises while out on the road, and on the trainer they’re a bit more present, at times. No biggie :-)
Thanks for the great review! Unfortunately I have an issue with my Direto for which I hope to get some suggestions here.
In Zwift I can’t pair the Direto as a controllable trainer over bluetooth. It does seem to pair as a classic trainer with speed sensor. The power meter and cadence sensor of the Direto work fine in Zwift and in My E-Training the controllable features are also working.
Any ideas why Zwift does not see my Direto as a controllable trainer? Do I need the ANT+ dongle for this?
The way Bluetooth Smart works it that if another app is holding the connection open, a secondary app can’t connect to it.
It sounds like perhaps another app (like My E-Training) may be running in the background and holding the connnection app. Double check you’ve killed off any apps that might have connected, and to be triple sure, I’d toggle airplane mode briefly and unplug the trainer and re-plug in.
Thanks Ray. I actually read this Zwift support article, but I thought this was only about connecting directly from the trainer to a PC over bluetooth (as opposed to bridging it through an android device). Still don’t really understand why Zwift doesn’t support this, but I’ll just go for the ANT+ unit.
That’s what I did too.
Also, depending on how far your PC is from the trainer you might need usb extension cable. I’m using my Home Theater PC for Zwift which is in media cabinet about 6 feet away from Direto, and signal was dropping quite often. With extension cable no more drops
I got this reply from the Zwift team. Seems it is supposed to work, except for an issue with ZLM for soms users.
“We have tested the Direto without any issues; however, there are some issues with the Android version of ZMLnot connecting all sensors that has affected some of our users which we are currently working to resolve. We have recommended using an ANT+ dongleas a workaround.
If you have one, try searching for your trainer under both Power and Controllable Trainer using that protocol, and let me know how it goes!”
Great review Ray. Just placed my order with Clever Training UK. Website says they’re expected end of September so hopefully any day now or have you got any better inside information?
That’s my understanding. I’ll check in the morning to see where they stand exactly. But I know they’re in constant contact with Elite on it (almost daily), so usually the site is pretty accurate there.
My Direto was delivered yesterday. Set up was indeed easy, and my first foray into cassette removal from a wheel and installation was not hard. So that was all good.
Coming from the Tacx Vortex, the difference is astounding. Way quieter. And WAAAAAY more solid and stable when you’re on the bike. This alone is worth the additional cash outlay.
I will say in my initial ride this morning I struggled with a couple things.
1) Trainer road found the trainer fine, but every time I tried to calibrate the trainer the app froze. I tried to calibrate on Elite’s app as well and the same thing happened. I tried probably 8 times to no avail. I did my workout anyway and the power number seemed plausible even without calibration. I’d like to know how to calibrate with my Elemnt if possible.
2) I connected it to my Garmin 935, and it sent speed numbers over (which I don’t care about in general) that were really strange. It said I was going 125 miles an hour. Not sure what that was about.
I’ll likely reboot my ipad and retry calibration with trainer road later, maybe that will do it.
Not about this trainer, but the Magene Gravat. Ray, please please please get one and test. Apparently it’s ”half the cost of a kickr”, although I find that it’s about 75% of the cost of a Kickr (maybe my google shopping skills are poor today).
If this is the start of Chinese designed smart trainers bringing the price down, this could be huge. At 75% of the kickr cost, I think I’d still buy a Kickr-2017 for 20% off in a sale, but if it truly can be found for 50-60% of the cost and you give it your blessing … well, that’d be it for me.
Ray or others with some experience here. I have the left side only 4iiii precision on my bike and have now ridden on the direto twice. I love the direto. Would you trust the power numbers from the direto more than the 4iiii? Both have been offset and the direto runs ~10-15 watts higher when (255 on the 4iiiii v 265ish on the direto).
FWIW
I noticed a difference in reading between my Quarq Dzero and Direto as well. It really hard to say which one is less accurate unless you have more power meters to compare.
But keep in mind with 4iiii left side only you don’t get a full power, what if your right leg torque is stronger?
Ray, have you been able to get accurate speed numbers with the Wahoo Elemnt and the Direto? My speed numbers are about 12.1 times higher than they should be on my Bolt because of how Elite handles the wheel circumference parameter. I’ve emailed with Wahoo Support and they say that they do not support configuring manual wheel circumference for fitness sensors. Any advice to get accurate speed numbers until Wahoo can implement a fix?
I’m having the same issue with the speed readout when pairing the Direto and the Elemnt Bolt. I’ve corresponded with Wahoo support and they’ve replied saying they just got their hands on a Direto and will provide a fix in the next couple weeks
That I would share a ‘fix’ I did to my set-up to help with leveling the saddle.
For the roadies out there who would have found that when their bike is mounted there is a downward slope on the saddle, and who also found that the standard front wheel riser block (I have the elite travel block) over-compensates and ends up with a nose-too-far-up saddle, I’ve done the following…
My bike trainer is in the basement, and I’ve always had a thin carpet (think ‘hallway’ carpet) beneath a yoga mat. To get my riser block a little lower, I cut out a piece of carpet and yoga mat where the block sits. Now it’s sitting inside the cut-out, a few mm lower, and as a result the saddle position is same as when the bike is off the trainer.
Hope this helps if anyone is struggling to get things level.
Got my unit from CTuk yesterday. Only had time to take it out of the box and have a go at plugging it in. Looks like I got one of the oldschool printer variants. Is pretty loud but I suspect once drivetrain and fan noise come into the question, it will be drowned out.
Ray, I have an Elite Direto connected to a MacBook via Bluetooth. I want to calibrate the Direto using Zwift. I recall reading somewhere that I can only calibrate in Zwift using an Ant+ connection (apparently a wrench icon will appear next to the pairing button if I have an Ant+ connection. I am not seeing a wrench with my Bluetooth connection). Is this correct? If not, how do I calibrate using the Zwift app? If it is true, which specific dongle (make and model) do you suggest?
Steven, Shane Miller (GPLama) in his latest youtube video on the Direto says to calibrate it once using the Elite app on your phone and you’re good to go for a couple of months. He would know.. he’s one of the top “Zwifters” out there.
I agree with Shane. I see virtually no need on the Direto to do so every session.
(Which yes, goes against my general guidance. So yes, I still recommend doing so occasionally to validate. In both Shane and my cases, we have multiple power meters, so we’d know instantly if something was amiss.)
I have just sent my direto back to madison via the LBS.
Initial couple of rides the trainer worked fine.
10 min into the third ride at around 130w at 90 cadence (in zwift) the wattage stared to read 2000w and a knocking noise could be heard from the trainer and felt through the pedals. After jumping off the trainer whined as it spin down.
I checked the cassette and 12mm adaptor were tight. Re started and connected to zwift and the same issue. Getting up to speed the trainer started knocking and the cadence reading was 160-odd at no where near that in reality.
I could not connect to the app to perform a spin calibration either.
I’m unsure if this is an issue anyone else has had but hopefully will be resolved soon.
I just got my Direto today and set it up. After warming it up and doing a calibration and set off to do a TrainerRoad Workout. During the 10 minutes I heard a loud knocking noise from the trainer. I did a couple of intervals and each time I returned to a lower wattage the knocking came back. Very disappointing since the trainer is brand new. Any ideas or do I pack it up and take it back to the bike shop?
Might be best to post a recording if possible, either here or directly to Elite. Aside from the famed printer sounds, there shouldn’t be any other erratic sounds coming from the unit.
Ray – thanks so much for responding I am feeling a bit desperate as I haven’t heard back from Elite support yet.
I took a short video to capture the noise. I showed my Garmin and the power reading because the guys at my bike shop thought that the knocking might be happening when there’s no resistance due to some kind of uneven pedal stroke (which I wasn’t aware I had!) but that’s not the case – it happens when I am putting down constant power. Here’s the file:
Unless you stick a ping-pong ball in there (or your kids put something else inside), it sounds like some sort of manufacturing or shipping-damage related defect there.
Given I think you’re in Canada, it’d be best to simply skip dealing with Elite and go straight back to the store you got it from for a return. Certainly could reach out to Elite, but my guess is that’s where they’re direct you.
I just wanted to follow up on the outcome. Elite customer service was very responsive and sent me a warranty replacement. It came direct from Italy to Canada so it took a week or so in transit but I can’t complain about that. So far the new unit is working as expected and I am very pleased.
Ordered via Clever Training UK. The positive review and the price differential to the Neo relative to features were the deciding factors
This will replace my Tacx Flow circa 2011. Spent sometime trying to establish if I would get an reduction in noise levels but couldn´t find anything definitive. Am assuming at worst it will be no noisier. If anyone has any experience please let me know.
I preordered the Direto on CT UK, with the code to support your site! While it was in shipping the price dropped significantly on Athleteshop (516£).
I first asked CT.com if the UK site could do some kind of price guarentee, I talked with “Paul” who said to me that I should just send them the link. I mailed CT UK with the link to the better price. They didn’t mail me back until today when the unit arrived. The answer they gave me was that a price match couldn’t be done. Now I’m kinda angry and I feel cheated.
So just to you and everybody else CT service isn’t what it looks like. Just buy from another store which want to help you even after the purchase.
Hmm, I’m not sure why Paul said that to be honest. CT generally doesn’t do price matches. You can get the DCR discount (which is 10% off in the UK/Europe). As for Athleteshop, they won’t have them in stock for another month at that price. And that assumes their shipment is on time/etc.
To be honest, I wouldn’t expect CT Europe to chase every last online site in Europe on pricing, especially ones that don’t have stock. As you probably know, many shops in Europe take a loss on some items to up-sell other items. It works for some, and then plenty others go out of business. Ultimately, I’d prefer CT figure out their place in life without going out of business trying to sell stuff at a loss.
Still, sorry for the confusion from the rep – but generally speaking people tend to be pretty happy with the CT across the board – plus it helps support the site here. Thanks for the support though!
The price difference on the site is large but not quite as large now as you originally quoted with postage the price works out at £588 compared with CTUK £674.
Given that I ordered today I have also asked the question of CTUK re closing some of the difference.
Ray’s point re availability is a good one as other site is quoting end October delivery. I am assuming CTUK has stock but am yet to hear back from them.
Given the choice I would probably wait a few weeks and save my self some money with the worst case scenario being that the other site can´t meet dates and I have to reorder from CTUK.
I think I have to send back my direto. The resistance is not held when I go uphill the power drops suddenly from 320W to 150W and then up again. At intervals too, suddenly no resistance. Once the coach stopped at Zwift completely and muttered only. After 10sec, he went back. Driving is not going well, because he constantly down-regulates the resistance, uphill.
Another update. CT UK has contacted me again, their reasoning not to pricematch was “…it is Elite itself who have denied this request based in the legally binding agreement that we have in place”.
Then I contacted Elite, funny enough they don’t know anything about an agreement.
Seriously CT…man up. They don’t even contact me back on my mails anymore.
You are obsessed. Let it go. If the price difference means so much to you just send it back, wait another month and go for the cheaper option. Nobody cares about your price match tales or whether CT uk are “manning up” for you.
Just wanted to get your opinion on the level of comments about issues with the Direto. Overall it seems to be positive but there a few comments on defective units and calibration issues etc. In your opinion (don’t worry I won’t hold you to it :-) ) would you say it’s perfectly normal levels given such a popular (i.e. high sales volume) new product?
I think anytime in consumer electronics there’s a failure rate (usually accepted as 3-7% by time it reaches a consumer). When it comes to shipping heavier items, that can be impacted by shipping as well (as seen with the original KICKR).
In terms of issues with Direto, they seem abnormally low actually. I believe most of the ‘calibration’ issues aren’t actually Elite issues, but just 3rd party apps getting caught up more than anything.
Quick question about setup with Zwift.
I am using PC and Zwift mobile connect through my Android phone via Bluetooth. I can’t get it to show up in Zwift as a controllable trainer. Is it possible at all to connect through Bluetooth as a controllable trainer thank you
See my question earlier. Zwift team said it’s supposed to work, except for soms users that have unclear issues with ZML Bluetooth connection. Apparently we are those users!? Ant+ works fine though.
I’ve used it twice so far with the free month trial. I did the FTP test, and a 1hr15m interval workout (on ERG mode). I like the TR app, it works perfectly on my iPhone, which is just beneath my TV (watching Netflix). The cadence seems accurate, and I was able to keep to the target power without much thought. I love the ‘set it and forget it’ feeling to the platform (no shifting, pick the cadence you want and the trainer adjusts resistance). The Direto was very solid, and with earbuds in I didn’t hear anything from the trainer.
Hi – I’m just curious….all your images are of the drive side of the Direto – there are none of the non-drive side. It’s kind of like trying to find an image of the “non drive” side of a bike. In my case, I’m trying to get a sense of the clearance on the non-drive side for frames with disc brake calipers, which is the case of my bike (Spesh S-Works Tarmac disc 2016) are inboard of the dropouts.
I took a picture of my Direto with bike mounted. Not disk brake equipped, but hope it helps. For me, it looks like plenty of space in front of the axle.
I believe you mentioned you had to fiddle a bit to get the bike “straight” on the trainer ?
It looks like if my rear pads are not horizontal, even without quick release the bike is not sitting parallel.
Maybe the foto explains what I mean.
I also need to try another bike…?!
After measuring with a level and tape I came to the conclusion the turbo is horizontal @37cm. So if yours is “off-set too, I’m good.
Began to think my frame was skewed.
Hi!
I´m a real newbie to cycling but due to certain circumstances (deteriorating vision) I probably will start training on an indoor bike. This Direto trainer seems like a very good choice.
However, it seems like all direct drive trainers (which is what I´m going to get) are only compatible with cassettes with 9-11 speed. These on the other hand seems only to be available on more expensive bikes.
Since I´m not going to use my bike much outdoor, I thought I could by a cheap bike and put the money on the trainer which is where I will see a difference.
Anyhow, do you think it is possible to use a cheaper bike that is delivered with a 7 or 8 speed cassette if I have a 9, 10 or 11 speed cassette on the trainer. I understand that I will only be able to use as many gears as the bike is supposed to have but is it possible to get the above configuration to work, considering chains and so?
Would make it much easier to find a cheap second hand bike.
Just thought that with all your experience, you might have some input on the subject.
Thanks for all the useful reviews anyhow.
Riding indoors if you have a vision problem is a good idea. Though with a dedicated riding buddy maybe you can ride outdoors safely.
You have a few things to think about if setting up your indoor experience for the first time. The bike is key, and the fit should be paramount. A steel or aluminum frame bike with 9 or 10sp cassette should be very inexpensive (like an entry level Trek or Giant from the last decade). I’m thinking around 350-500. I would get it tuned up too. To make good use of the trainer there are various apps (Zwift and TrainerRoad as examples), these cost 10-12 per month (TrainerRoad is $99/year). There is also a fan, TV, etc. The Direto is probably the most expensive of your purchases!
Thanks for the input Jason. At first I was hoping to be able to use one of my old racer bikes from around 1990 with 5sp cassette but that does not seem to be possible so I was hoping/aiming for something in a price range which is almost identical to what you mention (although converted to Swedish “kronor” ) but so far I haven had any luck (but on the other hand I haven’t been looking for so long time yet). Will keep my eyes open for the brands you mention. I ordered the Direto today so hopefully I’ll find something in a not to far future. A fan is something I haven’t thought about before but come to think of all the very “wet” spinning sessions I had, it might be well invested money.
Is there an ideal operational temperature? Would i be able to train with it in my unheated garage when the weather outside is -20c? with a heater blowing at me of course.
A crucial point is the OPTICAL in the OTS name. As there is no strain gauge, there is no source of heat, and so in addition to not needing recalibration, the OTS has no need for temperature compensation. Something which has been independently verified by German test labs, and which Elite are very proud of:
I’ve been using my turbo in Andorra on the balcony with -15°C and surely no need for a heater just 1 thermic underwear shirt.
thanks for the reply. I guess i’m also wondering about the internals (like belts or whatever). Like a car needs to warm up from a cold engine. Since a trainer technical doesn’t warm up, will it shorten the live of the trainer running it in the cold?
I would think that Elite Support personnel may have something to say about using their smart trainers below a normal indoor temperature. Especially if you take the trainer inside from the cold, there could be potentially damaging levels of condensation on the electronic components or boards, if the air inside is humid. (It does not take that much humidity to condensate if the unit goes from cold to warm air).
While I haven’t seen anything specific to ‘normal’ temperature ranges in terms of calibration required on the Direto specifically, I’d think that -20C and any swing after that would be of concern.
Remember, it’s not so much the ‘current’ temperature that’s a problem for calibration, but rather, the change in temperature/warm-up. Further, it matters more for certain types of trainers than others (less for Direto, but again, not sure on that massive a swing).
Someday, in a DCR Cave V2 or V3, I’d like to have a temperature chamber to test some of these things. But today I lack said space.
I’m beginner cyclist. Can i really feel difference between Tacx Neo and Elite Direto. Can i feel that gap in price? Is it worst it to invest right now to more expensive trainer like Neo? Do you think during blackfriday or christmas it will be some discount on Direto?
Hi, could you please tell where you bought it at that price? I’m searching for one in Europe and they are all out-of-stock and most of them are >750€. Thanks
Elite’s OTS is very much a strain gage: it is a gage* that measures torsional strain.
What Elite means to say is that their trainers use no resistive foil strain gages. That might sound like a petty distinction, but it matters: it’s roughly like saying that your hydraulic-disc-braked bike has no brake calipers. It absolutely does have brake calipers, just not the cable-actuated rim-grabbing kind.
There may be a language barrier here, so I’m inclined to cut Elite a little slack. Their occlusion-based torque sensor is less sensitive to thermal changes than foil-type strain gages, but it’s not athermic (not remotely). Optical strain gages absolutely benefit from thermal compensation, just not as much as foil gages do.
By the way, Titaniumgeek.com gets it wrong: strain gages don’t add significant heat; the problem is that temperature changes alter the strain reading from the gage unless thermal compensation is implemented. Plus, there’s a huge source of heat: the resistance to the rider’s effort! That heats up the OTS and, yes, changes its accuracy.
This is specialized information, and gear bloggers can’t be expected to have this knowledge. But IMHO, Elite’s marketing department is crossing the line from “spin” to “deception” in some of the information they’ve provided to the press.
*Engineers spell it “gage.” The rest of the word writes “gauge.” This is basically a professional shibboleth, and kind of a silly one. But in an engineering context, it’s correct to spell it “gage.”
To be fair to Elite, those were James’ words and Elite just refer to having a torque sensor. I’d also be inclined to cut some slack here as well, given the audience.. from an engineering perspective we know this torque sensor is a type of strain gauge – as is a spring – but it seems reasonably obvious what he getting at (sloppy wording, agreed).
As for spelling, this may be part geographic (or influenced from). As a Brit, in the times when my path as crossed the more engineering-oriented ones, i’ve never used or seen ‘gage’ used locally – always ‘gauge’. I’ve seen ‘gage’ in some US mechanical engineering papers but we more typically hang onto the French influenced spelling of things, alas.. I feel sorry for anyone having to learn English as a foreign language.
Thanks for your input, Tim. You’re probably right about “gage” being an affectation of American engineers. I much prefer “gauge” but I write “gage” when my audience is other US-based engineers.
I’d call bending that isn’t symmetric “asymmetric bending,” but mechanical engineers (at least in the US) prefer to say “unsymmetric bending.” My inner grammarian—a pedant without equal—cringes at welding the Proto-Germanic “un-” prefix to the Greek-rooted “symmetric” when the Greek alpha privative (“a-”) is totally a thing. But heck, archaeologists don’t talk about pottery shards; they talk about pottery sherds, which they pronounce as spelled. Well, à chacun son goût.
Regarding what is and isn’t a strain gauge, we basically agree. But it annoys me that Elite claims that they don’t need thermal compensation because they don’t use strain gauges. It’s like when Doc Brown in “Back to the Future” who said, “Where we’re going, we don’t need roads!” If he really meant that they don’t need roads paved with asphalt but they did need roads paved with concrete, then the reality isn’t nearly as cool as the claim.
‘asymmetric’ – with you all the way on that :)
The quark ‘Kwark’ vs ‘Kwoork’ battle was the one that used to drive me round the bend…
Regarding the Elite OTS, i’ve not seen any details on the sensor itself but can believe that it’s robust against temperature variations found in typical usage – not totally immune to temperature induced effects for sure, but there’s some clever optical sensors that might fit the bill (quadrature encoders I believe, i’d have to check with someone who actually knows). I think using the expansion on the leading and trailing edges of a metal encoding tree / disc to effectively ‘cancel out’ the thermal variance might have legs as well. I’m not saying Elite use either of those, but there is stuff out there that doesn’t suffer from the type of temperature induced strain offsets you get with foil sensors. I’d really would like to know more about their design but i’ve not yet dug deep enough to find the papers and submissions.
As for Doc, well reckon he meant they don’t roads due to the fact that the car could fly and go straight up and down :) Have fun and keep fighting the good fight with grammar.
I have to tell you guys, the printer noise is really annoying (to me). It is not quiet. I am replacing a Tacx Bushido with this, and am questioning if it was the right choice. Bushido is/was quieter. That’s probably my biggest gripe. Oh, and hills on zwift seem tougher on the legs now :-)
Are you wearing headphones and/or listening to music? I’ve been using the trainer a lot with TrainerRoad lately, and on ERG mode the adjustments to resistance (with some degree of buzz) are frequent, and I honestly do not hear it. I’m wearing headphones while watching Netflix, and I’m running a fan (though it isn’t particularly loud). I’ve used Zwift too, and cannot imagine riding for 1-2 hours and not listening to something…
I agree about the hills! I did the epic KOM the other day and didn’t know anything about it…so to me it kept going and going as I was expecting something shorter. I was in my easiest gear…but I’m a wimp :-)
Music drowns most of it out, but the fan alone does not. It is louder then the drivetrain, and fan on Low and Medium setting.
Zwift Races and Group Rides w/out music are easy because you are busy looking at the screen trying to stay in the draft or attack. For workout mode, music is a must!
Just bought the Direto, having sent my Tacx Neo back after numerous problems, and have to say I’m blown away by how good it is. Feel is great, and very solid. Adjustable legs make it great if floor is uneven and means you can get out the saddle with confidence. ERG and Zwift modes are awesome and response seems much quicker than other smart trainers I have had.
I have one really small weird problem, when I’m connected to my Garmin headset. I use the speed/cadence sensor option so I can record distance, and somehow it thinks I’m doing about 177mph? Any ideas what this could be? I reckon its the size of the wheel configured in my Garmin 1000, but don’t know what this should be? Its normally 2050 or 2070mm, which I think is the issue??
Any suggestions?
(Although it is making my Strava and Garmin Activities look quite good ;-)
I don’t believe I’ve heard of any compatibility issues as of yet, though I may have missed it somewhere. The design is pretty open, so unlikely to have much there.
If someone has heard of a compatibility issue – definitely drop a note!
Question about power smoothing, how long it took you to complete it?
I started and tells me don’t stop pedaling until told so, but after few minutes I don’t get anything so I stop,
For Trainer calibration using the phone its does it in 20 seconds or less. Using PC via ANT+ it forgets me, so I use my phone.
My personal observation:
In general I think folks with apple product are having somehow easier time, as they are connecting via Bluetooth directly .
I have a PC and I dont understand why Zwift/myTraining application cant connect via Bluetooth directly but I need my phone(unless I am using ANT+ dongle for PC). For me Bluetooth is Bluetooth, you either work or don’t work.
Received my Direto from CT USA. 2 questions/concerns:
1. Compared with my P2M Type S, it’s about 10% high, always, and I’ve calibrated it several times to be sure. My P2M is consistent generally on RPE vs. my Ultegra Stages on another bike, so I’m thinking the Direto is generous. Any thoughts?
2. It has a rumble vibration, mild until the flywheel really gets going, not ERG mode, where the trainer vibrates the bike and the floor. As if the flywheel is out of balance. Any experience or notice of that? I’ve sent both CT and Elite e-messages to see what they suggest.
Otherwise, it’s quiet definitely, not terribly hard to set up or carry, and fun. It seems to work well with TrainerRoad and Zwift, but I’m not sure how well the resistance magnets adjust for small incline changes. Some of the free MyE-Training “real” videos show climbs, “Col de la Madeleine” for example showing some pitches above 20% for brief periods but the resistance doesn’t really change reliably over a small single digit grade. Does make noise, doesn’t feel consistent with grade. Maybe it’s because the free one’s suck. TR and Zwift felt better, but still the Swift resistance changes were usually sudden.
Congrats on getting the Direto. I’m very happy with mine so far.
That being said, I also have the “rumbling vibration“ at some speeds. Something in the Direto seems to be a bit out of balance. It’s not really bothering me, even gives a more realistic “road feel” ;).
It’s been pretty stable for the first 500km, but if it gets worse I’ll definitely contact Elite.
Have any of you received a response regarding vibration / rumbling? I picked up one of these trainers and it’s quite noticeable from the seat and handlebars. It’s definitely not uncomfortable, but it it’s noticible if I hit an acceleration I can feel it pick up and get faster, and when coasting you can really feel it. It’s not strong enough that I notice much when I’m doing a ride and not thinking about it….sort of like a chip seal road but not as violent….like riding a mountain bike over pea gravel.
I’m not worried about it “bothering me” necessarily but would be curious if it’s a bad bearing or out of balance flywheel, as I’d prefer to replace now if it’s not normal or could be an issue later on.
On the other hand, I did try a Wahoo Kickr direct mount at the local shop and it felt about the same…so perhaps it isn’t out of the ordinary.
My Direto also reads 10% higher compared to a 4iii
Elite support insisted that the Direto is accurate in email to me but now there are so many posts reporting the same issue! Time for Elite to look into the issue properly.
That’s my same situation. Readings from Direto are generally higher in respect of my stages units (c’dale gen 3 and ultegra gen3) by something like 15-20 watts, and offset changes throughout the ride, be it a constant recovery ride or a Zwift ride.
I have elite direto and have noticed that ERG control bia bloototh smart and my 5th generation iPhone does not work if the trainer just “wakes up” by pedaling. I have to unplug it to get ERG to sync with trainer road, and I don’t think it has worked correctly with zwift either. Anybody having this issue/ know whats up ??
Yeah I have similar problems. Sometimes the ERG Mode works and the app (TrainerRoad or Zwift) controls the trainer, sometimes not. Tested on iPad Pro, Mac (2105) and iPhone (7+).
I’d really love to know if the Direto is compatible with the Cube C68 frame (2016 version, the one Andreas Raelert rode in 2015 Hawaii Ironman). I bought this bike and tried to put it on my Elite Turbo Muin, but it didn’t fit, because the chainstays hit the casing of the trainer. Can anyone help me out here?
Here is a very basic question. If I calibrate the Direto using the Elite ios app, is it calibrated for use on other apps such as Rouvy? I ask this because Rouvy says it cannot calibrate the Direto.
Great review! Bought one on your recommendation and am thoroughly enjoying it so far. Got 20% off plus my points at Performance. Feeling pretty good about that!
Quick question, do you recommend a riser block for this unit? I was thinking with the wheel off it s/b level but it doesn’t feel right. I guess I can pop a level on it next time to see for sure, but was wondering if you have an opinion.
BTW, my only critique is that it’s a bit tricky getting it mounted without having to manually guide the chain. The flywheel body is a bit wide. Could just be my bike, but thought I’d mention it.
first of all thank you for the great review, was a huge help in deciding which trainer to buy!
Received the Direto yesterday and the first impression is good so far. But I’ve also encountered some problems connecting it via Bluetooth with my iOS devices (no ANT+ stick et). Although it’s connected via bluetooth, the ERG Mode does not work properly sometimes. Are there some known problems?
Example: I connect it in TrainerRoad on my iPad Pro: ERG Mode does not work (no “old printer sound” –> no adjusting of the resistance). Then I disconnected everything, started TrainerRoad on my iPhone (7+) and ERG Mode worked. I tested this several times on the devices, sometimes ERG mode worked, sometimes not.
Is there anything that could be blocking the communication between trainer app and the Direto? Some processes in the background?
Hi Ray,
Ordered Direto from your recc site, received discount, fast free shipping, great customer service. I love this thing! Thank you for all you do, I was a little overwhelmed with the different types of trainers until I found your site. Thank you for all you do, I check your site daily now, god stuff??
Quick question Ray – with all the testing you’ve done on these direct drive trainers, I’ve not seen you mention any adjustments to the rear derailleur when you go from bike to trainer. My bike is a 2017 Specialized Tarmac Di2 disc. When I mount it on the Elite Direto – it shifts beyond the largest cog (I’m using an Ultegra 11 spd 11-28T cassette on the trainer) causing the chain to come off on the inside at which point the derailleur is hard against the side of the trainer. Have you seen this? Will adjusting the low limit screw on the rear derailleur be enough? Of course, I hate messing with my rear mech beyond adjusting the indexing – I’ve read that over adjusting the rear mech can cause battery drain and/or damage to the shifting motor. Unlike you, I don’t build bikes…I rely on my LBS to do that. Any advice from your experience?
Same issue with Novatec hubs on SRAM 11-speed cassettes: one on the wheels and one on the trainer. The trainer seems to be mounted outboard (to the outside) by about 2-3mm. I have to adjust the stops every time swap between wheels (outside riding) and the trainer (inside riding).
Hello Jacques. Did you ever fix this issue. I’ve recently purchased an Elite and they are shipping me out a seperate adaptor specifically for the Specialized disc bike / frame. Interested in your progress please…
1st use was easy spinning and “investigate” all the features a smart trainer can offer. Duration approx 40min
2nd use was 8min FTP- Test. Duration approx 70min
3rd use while warm up after 12min: Suddenly unrealistic power data (1000+Watt at 60RPM), Sudden start of bumping noise. Slippery pedal-feeling (like pedaling on ice).
By manually manipulating the flywheel it felt like it jumped out of its fixation.
I suspect an issue of the driving belt fixation an/or flywheel bracket.
Sent back to dealer. New one is on the way.
It happend when my training plan switched from very easy spinning (60-65RMP) to fast pedal (95-100RPM). Both with ~100W. For fast pedal I shiftet to an “easy” gear to make more RPM- 2 sec later the Direto passed away.
Hi Tom, I suggest you contact them at the official email address myetraining@elite-it.com, they are so kind.
I made a misunderstanding about the trainer noise, they clarify it.
The email contact could help each other and eventually solve any possible problem.
Sk
I do the same in Zwift. Directo reports about 10% lower. Who knows if that’s drivetrain lose, left-leg stronger or Stages being off. But I’m with you, I want to have the same metrics as I do on the road
One question: the Direto comes with two cassette spacers… my 5700 10 speed 105 cassette came with one… I installed both spacers from the Direto as per the instructions. Was that correct? Shifting seems a little of to be honest…
I think the important thing is to be able to tighten the cassette so there is no play. If shifting is off, turn the barrel adjuster as needed, and note down the number of runs and direction as needed (for indoor and outdoor).
I used 2 spacers with a 10 speed cassette. It tightens fine with two (not with one), but the shifting is definitely off a bit. I’ve even had the chain shift off the largest cog into the flywheel, but have never shifted into the spokes on my bike. Feels like I need 1 and 3/4 spacers.
One thing on trainer/zwift shifting is I’m far more harsh in my shifts. Getting better, but it’s a different technique.
Barry – I completely agree about harsh shifting in Zwift. This highlighted a few technical issues with my drivetrain that I’ve since resolved. This morning on Zwift I intentionally shifted more gently, with a short soft-pedal on shifts with the big ring, as well as some with the little ring. Also, on very short climbs (esses), if I’m in the big ring, I stay in it and gut it out.
Hi Everybody,
i’ve opened a ticket do Zwift that is under analysis by the second level support. My direto seems to respond very slow to terrain incline changes when i’m riding in zwift.
I’ve used the little climb in the metro station on london map and i can feel that the resistance get harder only 2 or 3 seconds after the climbs start ….and i keep to feel the 15% inclination even after 2 or 3 seconds when my avatar is on flat terrain at the end of the climb.
My ant+ dongle, with an usb cable extension is really near the direto.
Mine is fairly similar. I’ve always thought about it as a second or two, but never timed it. It’s not a big deal and it’s easy to adjust to. The spot you mentioned is the only area where it’s *really* noticeable.
Thx for your answer Barry. I asked that because some other guys with the direto seem to not have this issue and even Ray said “For things like responsiveness in sprints or climbs, I’ve had zero issues there with the Direto. It responds as fast as I can throw down the wattage (I top out around 1,000w).
So maybe there is something we can do to make it responsiveness better
Fabio, my experience is similar. 1-2 second delays. During 1 minute intervals, it takes 5-10 seconds to go through 80W to 300 W :-). Especially if I increase cadence at the same time. It seems the trainer tries to both compensate for the increase in power and cadence at the same time, and that takes longer compared to keeping cadence steady and increasing power.
I don’t know enough about the internals of Direto, but I would think they can fix it with firmware. Cmon Elite :-)
As far as Ray’s comments for responding as quick as he can throw down the wattage, maybe it’s all relative to other trainers in the category and what most (not us truly picky consumers) would find acceptable?
This morning, before a zwift session, i tried a custom workout with trainer road. some short intervals from 50% to 100/110% of FTP. As you can see (i hope) from the picture attached the behaviour of the direto is really good. Listening to the ‘beep’ from the direto it seem that Trainer road start to ‘talk’ with the trainer about 1 second before the interval ends. After 1 second my leg start feelin’ the resistance change and after 2 or 3 second the right amount of watt was reached.
So my problem seem to be a zwift problem..not a ant+ dongle problem (i use the older garmin dongle) or a trainer problem.
As others have noted (and the same in the review), the changes I see on TrainerRoad are lightning quick. That tells you that the trainer is working properly, and any other apps having issues are just that: App implementation issues.
Now, sometimes it’s not actually an issue, but just how an app behaves.
For example, Zwift doesn’t implement ERG mode in the same manner that almost every app does. Most apps implement ERG mode in a strict sense: App tells trainer to hold 350w, and trainer holds 350w, almost spot-on.
But within Zwift workout mode, it gives you ‘play’, so it doesn’t actually hold 350w, but puts you in the ballpark. Personally, I think this is stupid, because on an ERG trainer, that’s the point. Especially since all you do to ‘tweak’ this is simply adjust cadence. So instead you’re busy chasing cadence to ‘fake’ the 350w, rather than just riding at 350w. Sigh…
Mine gave me 6449 and i’ve the impression that the watt readings are a bit too high. comparing with watt from lemond revolution (with power box) it seem that i have about 20W more…
i’ve perfomed the calibration last time after a 1h ride in zwift…but event the calibration before gave me 6449
As long as you are +-4 from the factory offset number, you are good (according to Elite). Each individual unit can have a different offset number from the factory.
I didn’t know there was a factory offset on the bottom of the trainer. Good to know! Just have to remember to check with the bike is off the trainer ;-)
I purchased a Direto a few weeks ago. It has been a lot of fun using it on Swift but I have found that the power readings from it are inaccurate. I checked the readings using my PowerTap P1 pedals and found that readings from the Direto were on average higher. I tried re-calibrating the pedals and the Direto. Ride after ride I observed the same difference. I borrowed a friend’s PowerTap wheel to check that my pedals were giving correct power readings and they gave the same readings as the wheel.
I contacted Elite and we have exchanged a few emails. In the last email I sent I told them that a 7.6% difference was too large and that I wanted to exchange my Direto for one that gives accurate readings. I haven’t heard back in the last two days. I hope to get a response tomorrow.
I attach a figure of my power numbers during a ride. You can see that the readings clearly differ. Enough for me to be unhappy with the Direto. You can see there that I stopped for a few minutes to re-calibrate everything and it did not solve the problem.
Anyone else with the same problem? Have you been able to solve it?
that’s what i’m worried about. I don’t have a power meter on the bike so i have to trust direto power readings.
before the direto i used for years a lemond revolution so the power was estimated with a known power curve. Since i use the direto it seem that i ride at about 10/15 Watt more but i’ve to say that lemond could only simulate flat courses while with the direto i always climb a lot (with zwift). so MAYBE it is one of the reasons i have avg power higher than before.
Have you tried TrainerRoad or another app to see if you observe the same differences?
Also, I see you have PT pedals, can you make the pedals your power meter and allow Zwift to control the trainer (that way the slope affects you, but power is from the pedals). While this isn’t the solution you’re looking for, it may be a good option…for now.
I’ve never used power before and actually I’m not concerned with accuracy, exactly. I would be concerned if one day it’s 1% off and the next day it’s 8% off…that would make comparing riding over time rather challenging. For me, a smart trainer is simply a way to rather enjoy cycling indoors when riding outside isn’t feasible. But I know others would see accuracy as more of an issue based on their needs.
I have the dual P1. I’m confident that the readings from the pedals are accurate as readings from my friend’s PowerTap wheel were the same.
I have been using the power readings from the pedals in my last few rides on Zwift. That is not ideal given that I should be getting accurate reading from the trainer.
I’ve been in touch with Elite. Tomorrow, they will remotely access my computer to do some tweaks to the trainer. I’m not too comfortable giving remote access to my computer. They did not tell me exactly what they will do to the trainer but I thought it was worth giving them a chance to fix the problem. I’ll post an update later.
The tech remotely accessed my computer and connected to the trainer. I could see that he installed a small software that allowed him to edit what looked like the parameters of a polynomial function. I’m not an engineer but I guess that is the function that maps the readings from the power meter into watts. The tech was able to do that because I had sent an excel file that showed the power readings from my PowerTap pedals and the Elite Direto. I’m guessing that they used the readings from my pedals re-estimate the polynomial.
I attach a figure that compares wattage from the two power meters. They are now very close, especially after I re-calibrated everything around the middle of the ride. I’ll test a few more times and post and update if the power meter is a problem once again.
I did my first ride to day with my new Direto. 11% higher watt readings compared to my PoweTap P1s (dual sided). And I who moved from the Taxc Vortex to get better wattage accuracy….
I get a consistent calibration number of 6443 (haven’t checked under the trainer yet). Will also try to change the batteries on the Power Taps.
My Power values differ 15% to my bepro Power pedals. I have sent elite the offset and the power values from 100 to 350 with 50 watt Steps. I am waiting for the answer….
Thanks for this information, I more or less have the same setup (PowerTap P1 dual) and disrepancy as you are describing and am in contact with Elite & have provided the workout files from TrainerRoad/Direto and PowerTap/Elemnt bolt.
Given the consistency of the power difference, I’d suggest that what I’m experiencing is the same thing son this reassuring.
My Direto is a March 2018 build and has an offset differential of 5, which was brought back to 4 under instruction by Elite support.
Thanks DC Rainmaker for all your reviews and this excellent medium for the community.
Is any of you having a strong vibration? at first I didn’t noticed it but going through intervals of higher cadance it get really annoying. Clearly feel it in the handlebars.
I noticed vibration when the unit wasn’t balanced well on the floor. Make sure it is positioned very stable (you can adjust the rubber stops on the feet if needed).
Was wondering why my chain keeps drying up using the Direto.
On closer inspection I noticed a fine dust all over the cassette and the Direto housing. I guess it’s from some belt wear? Doesn’t seem to be affecting performance in any way except the feeling of a dry chain.
Anyone else seen a fine dust coming form within the unit and going all over the cassette?
Hi no rubbing I can hear or see The pic is after one session after cleaning the chain.
I did notice on taking the freehub off that it wasn’t screwed tight with the Allen bolt!
For my peace of mind I will thoroughly clean chain, cassette and housing and report back.
Hopefully tightening the freehub on wilĺ be the cause.
Hi – just purchased a Direto and have been using with TrainerRoad in ERG mode. Problem is that the Direto will not lock in on the target power but rather power ranges in a wide band of 20 – 30 watts. This issue also occurs when using the Direto with the Elite myetraining app, so it is a problem with the Direto and not the controlling app.
I have contacted Elite about this but they haven’t been of much help. Any thoughts on how to correct this issue?
To be clear, if the interval target is 200 watts, what do you see in TarinerRoad as the actual power throughout the interval?
On mine, the actual power I’m putting out will rarely be 200, but will fluctuate all around 200 (green if I’m close, red if I’m outside a range, but only briefly as the trainer adjusts resistance accordingly).
If target power is say 200W, the actual power reading will oscillate between around 170 and 220W. Furthermore, in ERG mode power is sensitive to cadence and if I reduce cadence for a moment, power drops even further to say 150.
Ray, a new problem after about 3 weeks with the direto. usually a ride with zwift but sometimes i use Trainer road or elite app for test or calibration.
this morning i’ve tried my custom workout in erg mode (1′ easy – 1′ hard 5 or 6 times…) and it seem that direto can’t adjust the resistance if i push well above the target wattage.
As u can see in the image, when the interval target is 130 W..if i ride at 200/210W it does not adjust the resistance. It seems that it only adjusts it when i go below the target..such as ERG mode leave me free to go high as much as i can.
i’ve tried with Trainer road, with app elite, i’ve restarted my laptop, restarted direto, changed the ant+ dongle (with and without usb cable extension), i ve done the calibration but nothing has changed.
It depends on the gear i choose. With the 50x 34 or 14 the problem occuours and the direto can hold the target wattage i specify in the app. But with a 34×16/18 everything in the ERG mode works fine and if i push it at 100W more than the target ..it corrects its resistance as espected in ERG mode.
I’m very interested in this trainer. Seems almost perfect.
I’m having trouble to find info about the free hub. I have a 10 speed Campagnolo road bike and an eleven speed TT bike. So if i want to switch bikes I would need to switch the free hub.
Is this switching of free hub difficult, not sure how this is done? And doing this multiple times, how high is the risk of causing damage?
Got a tacx flux recently and was a little surprised….but if i think about it makes perfect sense….by the wattage floor….on my wheel on vortex, i quite liked riding in the big ring and didnt really experience much of a wattage floor;
considering changing the flux for a direto (can still return the flux) but wondering if the direto has a similar wattage floor, presuming it does as its just the mechanics of it?
flux just cost me £575 and i can get a direto for £660 so have to spend a bit more and have the hassle of sending the flux back
not to worried about the difference in accuracy and have a stages powermeter anyway,
i’m reading a lot about the ‘issue’ in ERG mode with big rings. It seems that ERG mode sucks with the big ring and it’s only usable with smaller rings. My experience, and the one from other guys i’m asking, confirms this. And it seems that the ‘issue’ occours even when the drivo.
Many say that the problem is that with smaller rings ERG mode works but the road feel get worse.
During your test with Drivo and direto were u forced to use small rings to obtain that kind of results??
Trainer Road and Elite My app. In both cases (there is a screenshot above) when riding with big gears seems that the direto cannot ‘resist’ me. For example: target Watt: 260 for 1 minute
if i push hard i can sustain 300/320/330 watt without reaction from the direto. some target watt with small rings and the direto works fine and makes me hold the 260W
Nah, something is wrong there in your setup somewhere. I’m almost always in the big ring with ERG workouts, and with TrainerRoad specifically. Most of my interval wattages are in the 330-550w range, and no issues.
I’m not quite sure what the problem is in your case (assuming you’re not at some weird cadence like 45RPM or 150RPM), but you might want to start with TrainerRoad and validate it’s not something more innocent like signal dropouts. If you open a ticket with them, they can usually give you data back on your specific workout if there were any trainer control problems.
analyzing a zwift log i saw a 10% signal dropouts but it doesn seem this to be the problem because the trainer ‘receive’ correctly the input from the app. As u can see is not a signal dropout becuase i can keep on rideing at 100W more than the targets for minutes.
When i write to the elite support they told me it was normal and linked me a Shane Miller video where he explained ERG mode.
SO i asked Shane if with direto he was in some way forced to the small ring and this was is answer:
“Is this how ERG should work in general? No. Is it how it works on the Direto, seems so. As above, slowing the flywheel down by changing to an easier gear is sometimes required on the Direto when in ERG mode. It seems both the Direto and Flux (mid range direct drive trainers) operate like this. The flywheel speed needs to be <30km/h for ERG to respond as expected."
Hi,
You have to check the curve speed/power That elite posted in the forum and I shared also here…..at certain speed it can’ t handle the resistance (read power) needed by the workout.
If you bought a drivo or an neo you didn’t notice the problem ;-)
i saw the power curve but is not in the curve the problem. It seems that for me and other guys, it can hold the target watts only with small rings, and its indipendent from the watts.
I.e.
– 300 Watt target with big ring: i can hold 350W or more for all the time i want
– 300Watt with small ring: i can NOT hold 350W because erg mode works fine and it push me back at 300w.
and some guys with drivo are tellin me that it is the same with theri drivo…they have to work with small rings. But for ray is not the same so i have to find whats going wrong with their trainers.
A) The flywheel speed aspect Shane is referring to can be true, but it’s not really a factor at 300w.
B) Zwift ERG mode should be taken with a huge grain of salt, it works different than all other ERG modes on earth. It’s why you end up ‘chasing’ power numbers, as opposed to TrainerRoad and others that apply them to you.
C) What’s your gearing combination specifically? In my TrainerRoad screenshots above with pretty high ranges, I can almost guarantee you I’d done those in the big ring (it comes from years of mental training to be in the big ring on the CompuTrainer to avoid spiral issues).
Erg mode i’ve tested was only with TR or Elite app, at the moment zwift for me is only in free ride mode.
c) i can’t remember exactly but for sure i was with the 50 rings…i think with 14 or 15 back.
What i can’t understand is why with the 34 ring it seem that the issue was solved. I’ll perform other test with TR, but i’m sure that i was in the big ring when i ‘broke’ target watts in TR,
For fun, if you want, on TrainerRoad you’ll find the exact same 30×30 test I linked above. I use TrainerRoad for orther workouts of course, but that test is interesting.
Hi Ray (and congratulations).
I don’t know if it can be helpful for someone else but following is what i found during my latest test (suggested by elite support)
i create a workout with 3′ intervals with increasing target wattages (150,200,250,300 and 350).
Gear used 50×14
The first attempt with cadence in the range of 84/86 RPM was fine, direto worked in erg mode.
So i ride a second time the same workout, with the same gear but with higher rpm and here is the strange (for me) behaviour !!
It seems that there is something like a “critical cadence” beyond which direto can NOT make me ride at target wattages.
So for example: the first interval @150W if i ride at more than 95/96 RPM was perfomed at 200W…the second @200W was perfomed at 230 and so on. to ‘broke’ the 250W target i had to push over 100rpms but even in this case i ride at 280/290 without reaction from the direto.
It seem that this critical cadence gets lower when i use a bigger gears.
I can’t explain why but this, maybe, explain why other guys with the direto have not experienced any issue with erg mode.
Maybe this is normal for elite and they’ll answer me ‘everything works well’…
Great review as always (and contributed towards my decision to purchase)
However, I have some problems setting up and would really appreciate some help.
1) The bit that the cassette sits on looks like this….. link to imgur.com is this standard???
2) I don’t think I have received all of the parts required for quick release installation (I don’t seem to have item B or G from the manual which I believe are both required????) I only have the 3 parts in the photo so am confused? or am I missing something obvious? link to imgur.com
Would really appreciate some help/clarity!
(I will be contacting elite but find other folk just as helpful)
Hi Ray,
Love your site. Try to support you and spend a lot of time here. The Direto looks like a compelling unit, especially at the current 20% off from Clever Training. But, a used Wahoo Kickr, version 1 or 2, can be had for a similar or possibly even lower price. My question is, given better road feel, etc., with the Kickr, would you go for a version 1 or 2 Kickr or a Direto?
Hi. I received my Direto today. This review helped a lot with the decision what to buy. First impression is quite well, BUT I’m struggling with the wheelsize. I’m using the elite app and set the wheelsize to 2094, also in my polar m450. While the app shows 30km/h at a specific cadence and power, the polar shows above 200km/ (or nothing) at same values. Any suggestions to solve this problem?
I need to know that too…..I have flat mount Shimano ….Can’t find one single photo of the “other” side of the unit or straight on from the rear to gauge clearance
Hey Clayton I found this on Road CC review of the Direto.
The Direto has really impressed me. It offers a smooth and realistic road feel, massive stability for your hardest interval sprints, easy compatibility with a host of training apps, and works with disc brake bikes. It’s a good pick if you want to make a serious investment into indoor training this winter but can’t stomach the £1,000+ price tags associated with the likes of the Elite Drivo, Wahoo Kickr and Tacx Neo.
Thanks Man….Good to hear, since I’ve already pulled the trigger on it….Couldn’t risk missing the 20% off …..
After my post I scrolled around a bit and found 2 photos that were helpful in posts # 312 and 315 above, I believe ….
Have you ordered one?
If not I’ll keep ya posted when I get mine…I’m on a Trek SL 6 Disc btw….
Hey Clayton
Yes I ordered one. Backordered : Expected Late December sucks but I saved a lot with the 20% off!
I am using a Giant Defy and an a Liv Avail. Will be switching out both every day. Me and the wife.
Can you also just do a stand alone training ride not hooked to zwift, trainer road, rouvy, etc. on the Direto? Did you try to sync with Training Peaks?
Could someone clarify why direto resistance is really low on hills in Zwift, i have trainer difficulty set to max, is it perhaps that zwift makes it easier comparing to real life. I’m riding zwift steep gradients in the big ring front..
there is something that does not work in your setup. I have trainer difficulty at about 80% and in watopia climbs i always have to use small ring. When the incline si about 13% or more i have to use something like 34×25 or 24×27.
i don’t think my settings are different from default ones. I’ve only set the trainer difficulty to 80%, every other thing is on default values.
I’ve paired my direto the first time without problems, power accuracy seems to be ok.
Sometimes i do a calibration with Elite app and the resulted value is near the factory value that is written on the sticker under the direto.
Elite told me that the value must be +/- 4 from label value. in my case i have 6451 on the sticker and calibration is usually 6449 or 6448.
Like so many others, I really appreciate Ray’s work and this blog, and also CT. Maybe someone also using the Direto can help me understand one of my puzzles with it, particularly in TrainerRoad’s workouts. I’ve used TR off and on for a couple years using virtual power with the “dumb” Kinetic Road Machine — a great old workhorse for what it is. This fall after seeing DCR’s in-depth review (seconded by Shane Miller) I bought a Direto, and was impressed that CT got it here barely a week after the hurricane.
I’ve had fun zooming around Zwift on the Direto (one of the reasons I decided to give the Kinetic to my grandson and try a “smart” replacement). On TrainerRoad, my experience has been mixed. I understood that any smart trainer was going to behave and feel differently in erg mode than what I was used to on the Kinetic — that I wouldn’t have to shift, that in some circumstances I’d encounter the “death spiral”, etc — but figured that even at my advanced years I’d quickly adapt. I’ve gotten a little used to being a lot less in control of my power than on the Kinetic setup, where I could sometimes almost match those perfect ( and somewhat artificial) rectangles you see for KICKRs. On the Direto I’m all over the place, and find it very difficult to hold reasonably steady power. And I honestly don’t know whether it’s me or the Direto. Others here — e.g. fabio, and ari— have also had perhaps related issues, so I thought I’d ask.
In particular, can anyone explain why a properly functioning smart trainer could regularly produce, for instance, graphs of three-minute intervals in which rpms are slowly increasing while power is decreasing? (Provided both power and cadence are in normal ranges and the rider is not only not doing anything herky-jerky or weird, but is doing his best to hold both steady power and steady cadence).
Attached is a screen shot showing this from the Garmin file I made, minus the cooldown, of last week’s Spencer workout on TR. (I can post a shot of the TR file of the same ride if needed.) In this one, cadence is the upper yellow line, and uses a different scale.
The experience is as disconcerting as the graphs are puzzling. Just before the interval, I try to smoothly raise the cadence to the suggested rpm (this workout suggests a little above 100 rpm for the work intervals). There’s a knack to maintaining but not wildly overshooting the cadence as the resistance kicks in over a few seconds — typically the watts are under target for a few seconds, then over, with some fluctuating before things start to settle down. That wobble is not the problem that frustrates me, since it seems to average out. What does is after it settles to the target the power will start to fall a bit even if the cadence has not fallen off enough to register. I apply a smidgen more force to correct this, with perhaps a slight loss of resistance. Rpms move up, e.g. from 101 to 102 or 103. Watts do not; they stay the same, or even decrease! A smidgen more force to counteract this — more of the same. Over the three-minute interval you get that odd inverse relationship you can see best in the third interval: cadence steadily slowly rises while power slowly and steadily falls. At the end of the interval, my average power is well below target! Is that normal for any smart trainer? Any Direto? The practical question is what should one do, if anything, to keep power on target?
It certainly seems and feels to me as if there is some kind of phase problem — where I respond to the trainer and it responds to me, but in such a way that we get more and more out of synch with each other. If I back off enough for a big drop in watts, then resistance does mount, and I do really have to push to avoid a death spiral, and then it predictably eases up as the cadence comes up — and vice versa. It is where I’m trying to hold steady power and cadence, and feel like I am, that this phenomenon occurs. I should add that in the ride shown, I’m also using my 4iii power meter with TR’s Power Match on (auto). Not sure how that figures in.
Seeing as how many of us have yet to receive our Direto’s and our great community here is seemingly more informed and cognitively capable than much of the internet wasteland, what do you make of all these “issues”…?
I understand that we’re all beta testers to a degree, as all the possible combinations of gizmos cannot be fully tested… ( DCR who does an insane amount of preflighting on our behalf not withstanding)
But……I’d like to know, what’s your opinion on Elites tech support/ dedication to solving these issues individually, and speed of SW/firmware updates, thus far in this new relationship….?
In this particular case I’d wager a few bucks it’s TR’s Power Match causing it. It’s well known to cause issues that enumerate in all sorts of interesting ways. When it works – it’s great. But there are countless cases of scenarios like this that just produce totally ‘unique’ results.
I’d personally reach out to TrainerRoad, as they can pull the logs from the ride and tell you exactly what was happening.
Thanks for reply to a too-long post. Amazing work ethic! And you may be right about the issue. I will do a couple rides sans TR’s Power Match, and if the inverse cadence-power thing continues, I’ll bug TR for their help. Their support ethic is very high too and I don’t want to burn them out on something brand new to them too — esp when what I’ve paid them in 2 years is a fraction what my Italian diva cost. Well, I don’t really blame her yet — could be me, as I said, and wanted to run it by all you folks here first. I’ve seen the Facebook forum but only from outside, since I don’t Facebook. Here’s a link to the Elite forum: link to forum.elite-it.com
Bob C….
Thanks for your very detailed “too (not) long post” and especially that Elite forum link….I don’t do FB either and this is another example of why this DCR crowd is so great to hang around… 2nd that emotion on DCR’s work ethic BTW….(I’m so not worthy)
I’m glad I didn’t bet against Ray on this one. I still have to confirm this with clear and consistent data, but I’m pretty sure the Direto itself is not causing the bizarre ERG mode behavior, and that TR’s Power Match listening to my 4iii left-only is, as he suspected. If I turn it off, and make TR deaf to the 4iii, then if cadence is level, so are watts — at least for one quick and dirty test. I also just bought the full version of Ray’s Comparator software to a) support his gig, and b) make my amateur sleuthing as easy as I can. I’ll report back when the results are clearer. Just cautioning others on the fence that I was hasty in blaming the newcomer — the Direto — for results that likely aren’t its fault.
Excuse the weirdness of replying to my own post, but maybe best to keep my erg mode issue all in one thread. See #449 for the problem I encountered in TrainerRoad workouts with my 4iiii left-only power meter and the Direto both paired, and Power Match enabled (auto mode) so it could try to reconcile any differences between devices. In erg mode that setup produced a weird graph and an annoying struggle to keep power consistent.
What if I disable Power Match and unpair the 4iiii from TR, so that TR uses only Direto data? The screenshot shows last night’s result on the same TR workout (Spencer), minus Power Match and the 4iiii. The power stays basically flat (not falling) during intervals — just as it should — even with my slight creep upward in cadence. More important than a pretty graph, I’m no longer wrestling with the Direto to stay on target. TR is able to get the Direto to do just what it’s supposed to do — subtly modify resistance to keep average power on target at the cadence I’m pedalling. It now feels just right. So it wasn’t just dumb weak me, either.
Direto TR Spencer Dec 04.png
Does this mean TR’s Power Match is worthless? No. It likely works OK in other setups, or TR would have dropped it. And maybe it can work even to control the Direto with a different separate power meter. All I know is that in my case, with the 4iiii consistently reporting 20-30 watts higher (thanks, Ray, for the Analyzer aka Comparator, which verifies this every time), I can’t satisfactorily use Power Match. Don’t know yet what the TR folk are finding with other combos of power meter + Direto.
So then: What about my trusty 4iiii itself as a possible culprit? Well, I simultaneously recorded the same workout above with the 4iiii on my Edge 520, which doesn’t know about the Direto at all. Aha!
4iiii TR Spencer Dec 04.png
This power curve not only shows the 20-30 watts higher on average. It also shows that strange interval shape that led to my first puzzle in #449, where there is an over-target peak at the beginning of the interval, followed by a gradual decline to below-target, no matter what my cadence is doing. In that case, TR was recording the 4iii while controlling the Direto. The shape’s the same. So it’s been the 4iiii all along for that kink. Et tu, Brute?
I don’t know what exactly to make of this. With a left-only power meter the obvious explanation of discrepancies with values from a smart trainer is that the doubling also doubles any left-right imbalance. That is likely part of it, but not all of it — for reasons I won’t get into here. Suffice it to say that my legs don’t look like the lopsided curve above, and I only get a minor imbalance with single leg tests.
The good news is that I can now get workouts on the Direto that feel right. The bummer is that the power numbers from two “highly accurate” sources are currently less than useful as a gauge of my own changes in fitness. I suspect that the 4iiii— for whatever precise reason — has been cooking them way past that hedged +/- 2% claim, and that means that my indoors VO2 max magically becomes my new outdoors FTP! Ta da. No wonder I liked the 4iiii so much last summer. :-(
Takeaway? (My setup only, in my old man’s range.) TrainerRoad can work fine with my Direto one on one, with Power Match disabled. Zwift likewise. Any measuring device may be certified highly accurate and yet be highly misleading if exactly what it measures and how that is processed downline is not taken into account. For ordinary folk, the power world is still more Babel than lingua franca.
Side note to Ray. I’d have included a public link to the 4iiii / Direto comparison, but for me the public link leads to a blank page in Safari. Well, here it is anyway: link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com.
I setup my new Direto from CT yesterday and I am struggling with the speed reading, showing high values. I know that i have to change the wheel circumference to 173mm on my head unit, but that does not work. (Speed shows OK in Elite Training app with 2096 option and OK too in Zwift). I have a Wahoo Elemnt head unit, which reads extremely high speeds. I use the Wahoo Elemnt utility, go to Sensors and change the default value from 2.096m to 0.173m, but I see no difference on the speed readout in the Elemnt. I also have a Wahoo BlueSC speed/Cadence sensor that i want to use for cadence only. (BlueSC has more accurate cadense than the simulated one in Direto).
I am connecting the Direto to my Elemnt via ANT+ and it shows as FE-C. Ray recommended this option on comments above. When i do that, the Elemnt recognizes the Direto as a “KICKR” trainer and it unlocks the control screens to change resistance etc. But, the freaking speed reads wrong. I do have another option, the BTLE one that reads as “DI” Speed/Cadence, but if I select that, then the Elemnt will not show the “KICKR” trainer screens. What am I doing wrong?
UPDATE: Wahoo support got back to me on this issue:
Margaret (Wahoo Fitness Support)
Nov 22, 10:47 AM EST
Hi George,
Thank you for reaching out to us! With the Elite Direto Trainer, for speed you need to be able to set the wheel circumference to get accurate speed so bad news is that isn’t a current feature of the ELEMNT. Good news, you aren’t doing anything wrong and we have addressed this issue and it will be a feature soon. I believe it’s going to be released in a software update on or around November 27th. If it’s not in that update then it will be released in the next one (and I don’t have that release date at this time).
So if you can hang tight for me for a few more days, we should have wheel circumference as a feature for the Elite Direto trainers soon and then you will have accurate speed data.
Just setup my trainer last night and was thinking it was defective because of the beeping. I’ve seen other posts where this was considered normal behavior. I have no way of knowing if what I’m experiencing is the same as other users so I made an audio recording with a picture of my setup produced into a YouTube video primarily for the purpose of sharing to audio. It can be found at: link to youtu.be
The recording was done at a distance of 3 feet (~1m) and the only audio post processing was to amplify the entire segment to improve the volume range. Nothing was done to deferentially increase the volume of the beep frequencies.
Is this what others are hearing? I know it’s said to be minor and barely noticeable but even this recording doesn’t express how distracting I’m finding it.
It is normal. It is the stepper motor that adjusts the position of the magnets are the difficulty increases/decreases. Some get the noisier stepper motor, some get the more quiet one. Makes no difference on the performance or functionality of the Direto. You are fine. Enjoy it.
I just ordered my direto and am about to take delivery of the unit. I have heard some pretty negative feedback on the direto facebook group concerning the unit. Your review seemed to be very high on this unit. Did I make a mistake not buying a wahoo kickr?
In general, I bucketize things into a few buckets:
A) People with actual issues. These are divided into either known issues, or random one-off defects. As with any unit, that sometimes happens. Given the massive volumes of these trainers going out, even 1-3% (normal consumer electronic failure/whatever rate) is still a lot of people. Remember Elite has doubled production and is still looking at January for catching up retailers.
B) People with non-Direto issues that are mistakingly thinking it’s Direto. Examples being not understanding how Zwift Workout Mode works, or using tech like Power Match which is known to cause wonky stuff. These are just two examples, but there are many more here. This isn’t to blame individuals at all, but just being the reality check that in a 3rd party app world and with emerging tech – sometimes mixing drinks doesn’t always work out well.
C) The sound thing: Elite says this is normal, and while I disagree there should be two units, the reality is that it is what it is and it doesn’t seem to bother most people.
I understand that we are all beta testers in that all the possible combinations of gizmos can’t possibly be tested before they release a unit to the public ……but none of the pre- release testers seemed to have encountered any of these issues at least not in the same frequency or intensity that we’re reading about here….just wondering what everybody thinks about the Elites Tech support/Customer Service and follow through …..
I’m just sayin, because my sense is that if you’re here on this site, I tend to think you are more informed and somewhat more technically (and cognitively) adept than the general internet wasteland……annndddd, we have DCR doing more due diligence on this stuff than the friggin manufacturers…..
So, is everyone confident that these ‘issues’ are being taken to heart and fixed with the appropriate sw/fw updates or workarounds by Elite?
I had one issue that would fall into “B” on DCR’s above post. It actually turned out to be a Zwift issue, but Elite support was decently helpful in investigating the problem before I realized it was Zwift. They didn’t get back to me in an hour, but a day or two IIRC.
I now have enough miles to be level 11 on Zwift and have done Road Grand Tours a few times. No issues with the trainer. Yes, it makes a noise like a dot matrix printer if elevation profiles change a lot, but there’s plenty of other noises going on – bike, fan, music – that I don’t consider it a problem and would never mention it.
A for zwift because i have a 4/5 second lags that i can’t unerstand and hope zwift support with all my logs will find what’s wrong. i’d like to think that is all due to my old laptop…i
B for the ‘issue’ with erg mode that maybe is not an issue but i’m waiting for elite support response. i’m italian and so elite and maybe this could help. If they told me ‘ok your direto is fine if u want to use ERG u don’t have to pass some rpm’.
But i’m happy with my direto and i hope supports will solve this little 2 things. I’ll let u know if something new happens.
It would have been cool if here and on the FB page, where people raise both good and bad, that everyone’s set-up is presented (like you click my name and see a table indicating all of required info, such as App (Zwift, TR, etc), computer/device (iOS, Mac, PC, Android), pairings, wifi stats, connectivity, etc, etc.)
So far I’ve not had issues, and I wonder if it’s in part due to simplicity: used both Zwift (non ERG mode), TR (ERG mode), and iPhone 6. That’s all. No other pairings or other configurations worth mentioning. I haven’t adjusted any settings, and I’ve only calibrated once since September.
Some people have other devices they’re pairing, head units, older computers that run apps in the background and may be a particular nuisance for Zwift, etc. If someone is coming to smart trainers for the first time, I say keep it as simple as possible, and add complexity if you feel the need, after you’ve got everything dialed in.
As a complete newbie to trainers, what do I need to set the wheel circumference to in TrainerRoad and other apps when using the Direto? I’ve seen conflicting info on the web – is it 173 or up in the 2000s?
I made another 2 minute video which shows the operation with the near constant beeping at times. I’ve found you can better simulate what I’m hearing by listening to the video through headphones.
Although the technical operation seems fine, the beeping I’m experiencing is VERY distracting and can still hear it clearly above the sound of bone conduction headphones I wear while riding. I know that some units are quieter than others, but this one can exhibit near constant beeping over long stretches. Just glad I haven’t sold by Gen 1 KICKR yet.
Yep….that would get pretty friggin annoying pretty quickly….hope that ain’t normal…I’d kinda be surprised if it was…..are they (the stepper motors) reacting to input from…., like the terrain, in Zwift?
Or were you just peddling along with a set resistance ?
It was the West Flanders, BE Part 1 ride from VeloReality. Probably similar to Zwift in that the terrain varies so resistance follows along. The info I’ve read is that the noise is coming from the stepper motors. I’ve put in a support request with Elite, so we’ll see what they say. If it’s termed “normal” the Direto is probably heading back to Clever Training.
Yeah…roger that…if that’s the case, I might change my order….
Maybe wear a belt and suspenders by posting on Elites forum as well….A couple of the guys above did…and the moderator responded to their queries…..
Heard back from Elite. As expected, they say it’s normal operation. Guess I was unlucky getting one of the louder versions. Weird having a product with different versions where customers can perceive it in different ways. Seems like they don’t have an audio spec in sourcing their stepper motors from various manufacturers. It’s true that you have a fair amount of drivetrain noise anyways, but the beep is a significantly higher audible frequency and is sometimes occasional and sometimes nearly continuous. The unit is going back to Clever Training unless someone in the Boston area wants to buy it from me.
Given all the discussion about this point in the comments, it might be helpful for Ray to update the review with a short write-up about this luck of the draw pain point.
Sorry to hear that ( no pun ) ….I’m still on the fence….did you experience any of the other issues being discussed? Like 4-5 second lags or resistance drop outs…. guess I oughta start reading some of the other reviews/comment sections to c.m.a….
Didn’t notice anything else that was wildly out of the ordinary. Some lag, but not 4-5 seconds; pretty much as Ray talks about in the review. I think you’ve boiled it down to the bottom line – luck. Reaction to sound is personal so what bothers me might be fine for someone else. I think Elite is completely out to lunch selling a product with this type of audio variability. Their charts and graphs and noise analysis is completely meaningless and in my mind is done to insulate them from a huge number of warranty repairs/returns. This is not a matter of scientific analysis but one of human perception. It wasn’t just my perception either. It was driving my wife mad being in the same room hearing that beep, beep, beep.
My advice is to stay away from Elite trainer products unless you’re willing to buy and go through the hassle of expensive return shipping. Ideally buying from a local shop with a fair return policy would be ideal. Shame on me for just reading Ray’s review and not wading through over 400 comments.
What I find funny about this whole thing is that it’s literally the same stepper motor part that’s been used in other Elite trainers for years…years – and nobody ever said anything about being a problem.
Well, technically there are two versions of the stepper motor. A loud one and a more quit one. I have the loud one. I cannot say that it bothers me. I think I actually like it since it indicates audibly change in resistance so I prepare myself. If I had the option to not have it, I would opt for that option. But I am not going to send it back to CT just for that. I did this already several times with the Wahoo KICKR SNAP uneven rollers last year! haha.
How can you check/update Direto’s firnware?? It doesn’t seem that the Elite Training app can do it.
I’ve never dealt with CT before this event, but thus far based on everyone I’ve spoken to there, it seems to be an outstanding, quality shop/group of people….not unlike Ray in that they seem to tell it like it is and aim do the right thing….. Makes sense that Ray would hitch his wagon to them…..(or vice versa ; )
Anyhow, sorry about your misfortune ….big hassle no doubt….
But I’m thinking IF you bought it from CT, that you could share your experience in dealing with them as well ….they claim a 60 day no hassle, aim to please return (replace?) policy….thus, you kinda get to see the sausage being made so to speak and can share your impressions in that regard.
As for me, since Ray is WAAAAYYYY more thorough, experienced and organized than I re: assessing the myriad of gadgets we all lust after… and since all the other reviews seem to echo his conclusions, I’m still gonna go with this unit…..(not to mention the fact that too much rock and roll, gunplay and heavy equipment has rendered my hearing somewhat less than discerning) and maybe the spotlight being shined on this stepper debacle will entice them to weed out the noisy motors from the assembly line going forward…also, I gotta be close to the end of the queue, so the dice feel kinda warm to me at this point.
And just to be really clear on this: I think it’s totally stupid that Elite is sourcing two different components here. And more specifically, that it’s a random chance as to which one you’d get.
I’d personally rather it be one or the other – and have a known quantity.
But, that sourcing limitation is also them trying to meet demand. I suspect at some point they’ll catch-up on parts and it’ll be sole-source again.
As to CT and this return. They were GREAT and gives you confidence in buying from CT. This is my first return with them. I have to send an email to the USA distributor (Todson) and they will handle issuing me a return label. I’m going to offer to drop it off as they are located not too far from where I live. I’m guessing they will prefer it just be shipped back.
As to sourcing… I think any responsible manufacturer has to consider multiple sources for critical parts. Remember what happened with disk drives several years ago and camera sensors 1 1/2 years ago? Natural disasters created significant worldwide supply problems. The trick is to have exacting specs for the parts, and that is something Elite didn’t seem to do or at least around the audio qualities of the motors.
Clayton – I truly hope you end up with a quiet version. I’m waiting on a Neo from CT so noise should not be an issue.
That’s all good news, Man….Glad to hear it….The Neo would be my first choice but I’m trying to show some fiscal restraint where I can… with this being my first foray into indoor training…. I bought a new bike this summer, and new IMac too….and am outfitting my cave as high end as I can within reason…(bought a 55” Black Friday deal) so a big ouch as it is already…..
Also I’m with both you guys regarding the idiocy of having 2 different suppliers/ motors….whatever the issue is…..But I’m guessing they are probably hearing this discourse and discontent and get it straightened out….
This kind of feedback is invaluable for our little congregation here….
I’ve been going through the return process with CT and the Elite distributor. Very smooth and they way you’d always wish customer service would happen. Just a bit of info from the distributor… they are expecting new shipments the end of this month or early January and said they will be much quieter. I asked how you’d know if you’re getting a quiet or noisy version and their response was the new shipment will be much quieter. Not a giant leap to infer that Elite has recognized the issue and maybe the notion of 2 versions (noisy and quiet) of the product will disappear. That would be good news. In the meantime, I took advantage of the 2nd CT trainer promo and received the Neo. What a beast – super quiet and smoooooth. The setup was also easy.
That’s also good news and good for all to hear.. us and them …. truth be told I’m a bit envious…though having to return anything that I’ve got to disassemble, then cleverly repackage REALLY torques me off……but maybe I’m just a delicate flower…..
I hope the distributor is right and I’d be surprised if they didn’t move quickly to fix the stepper issue, if you are an online seller you really don’t want a meme like that getting started…. the competition is too good…as it sounds like you’ve discovered…..
It sucks that I’ve got to wait till January (as CT has already informed me) but if I get a good one that has benefitted from all of our beta testing, I m ok with it….especially since where I live it seems like the 4 seasons are June, July, August and winter…..and this one is forecast to be particularly crappy.
Enjoy.
If you have a movie or music playing, are you still bothered by the motor? I’m considering this trainer as I don’t want to deal with wheel vibration anymore.
I just picked one up from performancebike. The step motor is very loud. It’s like a dot matrix printer between my legs, and when you set it to maintain a wattage, the beeping is constant on off on off. Quite annoying. It does seem like a nice trainer aside from that, so I’ll try to drown it out with music.
So I did my first actual “ride” today and the step motor (louder version) actually was not noticeable once I loaded up Zwift and turned on some music. …just medium volume.
I pretty much forgot it was there after a few minutes.
Me too. Loud version stepping-motor owner here.
If I blast my stereo or pedal at more than 40 kph (25 mph), it helps to drown out that crazy (loud version) Direto stepper motor constant beeeping and whining.
I guess I’ll find out in 1o years if all that camouflaging during Direto workouts has any effect on my hearing…
;-)
@Fabio:
Is that why my mobile phone always gives me a warning about loud listening volumes when I plug in my earphones/headphones to use music to cover up the bleeping Direto’s loud stepper-motor noises during a workout?
If I don’t turn the head phone volume up – I can still constantly hear that beeeep, beep, beep beeep…etc.
I’m also with all you guys concerning the idiocy of sourcing 2 versions of stepper motors (one loud, whing, beeping constantly, and the other – quiet)!
Then, having the nerve to tell customers of the loud version who complain – “too bad for you, better luck next time… because we at Elite feel that both motors are within our tolerances… noise and all.
@George,
I have the loud Direto step-motor version also. However, mine CONSTANTLY beeps, and not only in anticipation of a change to a change in resistance.
I only wish mine was like yours.
Hi Ray and Anyone,
Just got this trainer and I have a Stages left side power meter. How can I record a small workout with trainer and stages power on the same graph to compare ?
Thanks
John
You’ll need two different devices or apps to record from. If you have one GPS bike computer or favorite app already, that’ll record from one. Then you could use the Wahoo Fitness free app to record the other (or the Strava app as well, thus giving you two files).
During your testing with the Elite Direto did you experience any issue with running out of resistance in Zwift during sprints or hard intervals? I am having issue when I am on the flat sections, when I am riding the flat, I will be in 53 front and 11 rear, 90rpm and it only puts out 280-300 watts. I have to ride hills when I do intervals. The other issue is when sprinting, I get out of the saddle to sprint, get up to 900w in my largest gear, then it seems like the flywheel catches up and after 8-10secs I am spinning at 130rpm 450w. I can’t even do a 20sec sprint. I have the trainer difficulty set to the max, completed the spin down/ calibration.
I have only had my direto for a couple of weeks and I have done the calibration, number came up as 6372. I have emailed Elite and awaiting their feedback. Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Russ
I think I figured it out. I put 173 for circumference, I changed it to 2096 and it seems to be much better with a quick test. Can someone confirm if this is correct? The manual is a bit unclear.
HI Russel, what u r experiencing is a known ‘issue’…but more than a real issue i suppose is a physical limit of the direto (and someone says that is almost the same thing with drivo)
With big gears you do not have to pass something like a critical cadence, if this happens…you ‘break’ the ERG mode and you can hold even 100 or 200 watts more than the target ones.
So, even if it is not the same identical thing, you only have to shift to shorter gears and this critical cadence start to raise. For example if you choouse a 34×18 or similar you have to go really high with RPM to break ERG and put the direto in trouble.
I think many user have no problem with ERG is only due to the gear and RPM they use…with the ‘right’ gear you can do even 500W intervals without problem.
The elite direto box wouldn’t fit in my 135i and I forgot the power adapter in said box, do you know the Voltage and Amperage that the Direto needs? Looks like a standard barrel jack.
With this power curve we can calculate what is the limt of RPM for a given gear in order to don’t ‘break’ ERG mode. If we go outside of this power curve direto (and not only direto ) can NOT hold us back to the target wattages if we pass them.
@Ray, i Hope this could help everyone like me with problems with ERG mode
Terrific, iker! I don’t do Facebook, so the power curve fabio kindly mentioned did me no good. This is clear, and I can save and refer to it if needed to clear up mysteries. Elite should include it as part of the Direto package. Or maybe they could simplify it: “Use the small chainring unless you’re pro.”
@Fabio, you are welcome to post it.at the forum. i have noticed a typo in the 101-890 watts interval @80 rpm, where it says 50×14 should say 50×19. There could be other errors, but the takehome message is use small ring middle cog unless you are a pro and want to do sprints, and then you will notice a relatively high floor.
im trying to find a correspondence between your file and what i found when i first see the ‘issue’.
I can remember that i was riding with 50×14 and with a target watt of 200W i’ve ‘broken’ ERG mode with a cadence of 95/96 RPM. With that cadence i was riding at 225/230W even with a 200W target wattage.
when target wattage raised at 250W , with the same gear, i needed 100 and more RPM to break it.
Having issues with bluetooth control using iphone and ipad with elite direto. Takes several attempts of unplugging trainer and rebooting iphone or ipad prior to ride. Is there a fix coming for this problem or do I need to return trainer for exchange?
That behavior sounds like you may have an app open somewhere in the background that’s locking the Bluetooth Smart connection (remember, BLE only allows one concurrent connection). Thus your retry over and over is essentially you winning the race for that connection by pure luck.
Thanks Ray. When I’m having trouble, the iphone or ipad is receiving from the trainer(I can see rpm and watts) but the trainer doesn’t change resistance in any mode.
So it’s pairing but not controlling.
TrainerRoad mostly but Elite ap does the same. Others are having similar issues and discussing on slowtwitch. When I get to work, it is awesome. I have shut my ipad down and will continue to try iphone. Hopefully, whatever is causing the problem will be figured out. Thanks again!
What version of iOS are you using….I find ios11 in general to have caused a certain amount of “ bugginess” that I didn’t experience when using ios 10.3.3 …..ive only upgraded my iPad as I use my iPhone to integrate with an antiquated system at work so I can’t risk breaking anything….
Crazy, all worked great today. I turned iphone, ipad and garmin watch off and unplugged the trainer. Plugged the trainer in and turned on ipad only. Opened trainerroad ap and loaded workout then statted pedaling. No issues, erg worked perfect.
And I am using lastest ios update.
Hi Ray,
thank you for the in-depth review of the Direto, I found it very helpful. I am currently choosing a home trainer and what I thought would be a relative easy choice is proving itself to be more and more complicated.
I would like to ask you for a piece of advice on choosing a trainer that would suit me. I am 194cm tall and weigh about 110 kg and as a former shot putter and with my weight I can produce some above average wattage through my legs. Since better home trainers cost about the same as my bike, it is an investment I would like not to mess up. What would in your opinion be the best option for an amateur cyclist like me who would also like to do some indoor training during the rainy winter days here in Germany. Would you recommend the Direto or is there another alternative to it? I am aware that with my weight I should probably not sprint my butt off on it, but it would be nice to have something that I would be confident enough to use.
Thanks for your time and any advice you might have for me.
Best, Luka
I’m considering this trainer as I’ve always wanted to go direct mount (but didn’t want to shell out 1200+ USD.
Can anybody comment on the Elite warranties within the United States? Is it more or less non-existent, being an Italian based company with only one US distributor?
I’m thinking more outside the 1 – 2 month window that the stores would give you for returns…say the unit breaks down in 8 months, would a LBS be able to send it to a US distributor (or Italy) for a replacement if it’s under a year?
And say it’s been 2 years (not sure if they do a 1 year, lifetime, 1 month warranty…) – if it’s outside whatever window they have, do LBS have any luck sourcing parts or repairs for Elite trainers?
This is an awesome pricepoint – my only concern is if it breaks down in 2 years if there would be any option for repair. I’ve checked their website and there is basically no warranty policy available from what I could find.
I’ve just got myself a Direto to replace a failing Vortex. Whilst the feel is much improved, I am pretty disappointed by how poorly the Direto follows the TrainerRoad power curve in ERG mode. The Vortex would keep very close to the line. The Direto is all over the place. I thought that I had an issue with the unit until I re-read this article and saw how variable your power plot was on TR.
no problem for me with erg mode and TR. but it ‘s better if you read the power curve of the direto or one of the sheet some user has created based on that power curve. If u pedal outside of the area between the 2 lines of the power curve direto can’t hold the requested wattage.
So I’ve read some of the comments above and on the excellent Elite Direto group on faceboook. I have set the power smoothing (to 5 initially) and tried using the small ring for lower target power and my first, albeit rather brief, test is much more positive. Managed to keep much closer to the target power curve. Will have to wait a couple of days for an opportunity to try a full workout.
I have actually the exact same experience (except my vortex is still fully functional) – Wonky power on the Direto (though interval average is usually pretty much good), going to try the power smoothing.
For what it’s worth the resistance seems pretty constant and my Garmin Vector 3 report the same power.
I think we are just used to artificially smoothed power from the nature of the vortex. From what I hear the kickr is the same with the flywheel internally.
How are you now finding the power smoothness with the Direto compared to the Vortex? I have a Vortex at the moment and I am thinking of getting the Direto. However, the ability to ride and hold the power specified in TrainerRoad is important. I saw DC’s review and was surprised to see the spikes in TrainerRoad when in ERG mode. I never get that with the Vortex. So any observations will be appreciated.
Anyone notice beeping problem .if yes how to solve it ? link to youtu.be something like this. Wouldn’t mind when on and off but every time I stop or during the ride is bad.
My Direto has that aggravating beep you’re referring to.
It’s due to Elite sourcing 2 different versions of stepper-motors to build the Direto. Unfortunately you and I both have the annoying, noisy stepping motors.
These motors are constantly re-adjusting to try and maintain a stable speed vs. the in-game slope (Sim mode), Erg workout power intervals, and the cyclist’s power pushed on the pedals. That’s their hardware design.
Unfortunately those loud version stepping-motors are like constant whining, beep, beeeep, beeep repeatedly – as if you’re stuck in Manhattan, New Delhi or Cairo traffic with everyone’s car horns blaring constantly.
Caveat Emptor: Elite responds by saying both motors (loud and quiet) are “within their tolerances”. Therefore, It’s akin to saying: too bad, so sad if you happen to have a bought a loud version.
Some will say – just turn up the fan speed and stereo volume blasting in your ears – to camouflage the stepping-motor noise, and pedal at more than 40 kph…
Until you get tinnitis or become partially deaf lol.
Just bought the Elite Direto. Nightmare using Bluetooth. Only works with Elite App but no way to make it work with Zwift. Went to Elite forum and they are acknowledging major software bug with Zwift and they are clueless. This must be clearly taken into account when reviewing this product and according to this review the Direto appears being the most compatible trainer on market…that’s not the case
Please note the Elite Admin admitting the bug that many other had. They say “write to Zwift”….now I am going to buy the Ant+ USD device for my PC, that should work. Any advice on that?
In looking through that thread, there appears to be roughly 6-8 different things people are talking about. While all have the word ‘Zwift’ and ‘Bluetooth’, they are actually different items interestingly enough.
– Some folks trying to pair BT directly on Windows: This actually hasn’t much worked for any trainer, let alone the Direto
– Some folks trying to pair BT in the control panel of their phone: Same deal, just not the way sensors work.
– Some folks trying to pair via Android mobile link app: Now this should in theory work, but Zwift has somethings been funky on this honestly with a wide variety of trainers. If this isn’t working today (I haven’t tried it recently on Android specifically), then it wouldn’t surprise me. But, I’d actually agree with Elite that this would 100% be a Zwift issue, because it would mean they haven’t properly implemented BT FTMS (trainer standard for Bluetooth) on the Android app (which wouldn’t really surprise me, since it’s kinda new).
As for ANT+ and PC, yup, that works no issues. I think I show that above in this post too.
Looks like the common problem with BLE connections — can only be paired to one app at a time. That means that App #1 must be terminated before App #2 can form a BLE connection to the same sensor. When App #1 is only put in the background, it still claims the BLE connection preventing App #2 from finding it upon startup.
For Richard Davies and any others like me, who had some early problems with the Direto in erg mode on TrainerRoad, or who are worried that they may, I want to offer an update to my earlier posts. Here is a link to yesterday’s 60-min Sweet Spot session (Mount Field, for those who know it) on TrainerRoad in erg mode, displayed on Ray’s very useful tool (Analyzer, aka Comparator).
The purple line shows the power reported by the Direto to the TR app, the green line the power reported by my 4iiii left side crank arm power meter to an Edge 520. In this ride, the TR doesn’t know about the 4iiii at all, and the Edge 520 doesn’t know about the Direto. TR’s Power Match feature is completely OFF. (In light of recent posts, I should also mention that both devices are paired to TR via ANT+, not Bluetooth.)
As you can see, both graphs basically agree on their response to my pedaling on longish steady-state intervals. Both are jagged instant by instant, but still on average flat over 4-5 seconds or more. As I understand it, the short rapid fluctuations in power are real and normal for even very smooth riders, and not a defect in the device(s) reporting them. As a newbie to smart trainers, I was expecting the absolutely rectangular pictures I’d seen from users of the early KICKR, but I now understand that to be an artifact of smoothing, not the reality of what legs are doing. My issue was not really the picture anyway. It was the sensation of fighting the trainer to stay on target. Disabling Power Match in TR effectively solved that, as well as the advice (echoed by Fabio here) to use the small chainring and a middle cog.
A satisfactory erg mode ride and two independent sensors agreeing on my pedaling over time is the good news. I have to qualify that with an important tweak I made. I found and used a Precision 4iiii feature I had overlooked: the “Scale” function (available in the little app that comes with the 4iiii). (I suspect it is what TR’s Power Match tries to do, just before the value even arrives at an app.) It allows you to scale the value coming out of the 4iiii up or down by any percentage you fill in. I used it to scale the 4iiii value to 90% — because it was regularly reporting values at least 10% higher than the Direto. So the agreement between the two devices is artificial in the absolute sense. They still actually disagree by 20-25 watts on what I’m putting out in a given duration. But they do agree very closely and consistently on how much my power is going up or down during that duration.
In Zwift, with the same 90% tweak of the 4iiii, the results are the same: the ride feels mostly right, and the numbers now independently correlate very very closely.
So my (qualified and hedged) takeaway from just my particular Direto (loud stepper, no Elite decals on legs, early?) at my level, with my connections, on TR and Zwift, is that the Direto seems to be working in erg mode OK as long as a) I don’t use TR’s Power Match to reconcile a 4iiii that reads 25 watts higher, and b) use the small chainring. If you’re set up differently, or train way outside my old man’s range, you may get way different results.
I think I’ll stop here with just these limited facts with the device itself. The My E-Training app (and site) is a whole other issue, and maddening, but its bugs haven’t made the trainer itself unuseable for me.
What is the implication of the limited connection capacity with BLE on using Direto with Apple TV? The computer I use for Zwift does not produce great graphics so I’ve been thinking of purchasing an Apple TV to run Zwift. Does the problem with the BLE connections means that I will not be able to use Zwift, Apple TV and the Direto in combination? I think using that setup would require having Mobile Link reading my heart rate sensor. Would that be feasible?
I have not been able to connect the Direto to my PC using BLE. Ant+ has been working fine though.
The specific BLE limitation (which is true of all* BLE devices, regardless of manufacturer), is one concurrent inbound connection to that specific sensor. Apple TV (as well as many bike computers and watches) use a full Bluetooth 4.0+ stack on them, which means they can connect to multiple BLE sensors. In the case of Apple TV, that’s technically three sensors (including the remote). Direto uses up one of those.
*Note for geeks: Even more technically, it’s actually no longer a BLE spec limitation, it hasn’t been since BLE 4.1, though the BT SIG wants you to believe it was lifted in BT5.0, but it was actually lifted in BT 4.1 about three years ago. Nevertheless, not a single company has implemented support for multi-master connections within the sports realm, so we’re still living under the single-connection paradigm in BLE for now.
I’ve been using my Direto since September, and with the recent weather here in Canada I’m using it 4x a week as of late. I tried Zwift for a little over a month, and I’m now using TR exclusively. I’ve always used the small ring, middle cog, and I’ve not had any issues. I don’t even want to try a different gear combination!
FYI – From what I’m reading in forums, it seems that the Left/Right pedal analysis requires the purchase of a wired cadence sensor. The only place that seems to sell this is the main elite website. The sensor itself is cheap, but the shipping / VAT bring it to $43 US Dollars in total.
Maybe a stupid questions, but can I pair the Direto to my Apple TV running Zwift via BT and, at the same time, record the session on my Forerunner 935?
I guess it basically comes down to the question if BT and ANT+ connectivity can be used at the same time, or if the Direto shuts down ANT+ once connected via BT.
If anyone has tried, would be great to know.
Thank you.
When using an ANT+ sensor to Zwift, the Elite is outputting 3 different sources of power, each a little bit different than the other. Anyone have any idea which is the ‘right’ one or if there are any differences along with why they each reading slightly different.
I’m trying to buy a bike to pair with the direto and so far I’ve found a Giant Contend 1 2017 model for just under 500 dollars. The bike has is mostly shimano sora groupset, would this be a fine starting point that’ll work well with the Direto?
Hi Ray, thanks for the great review. I bought the Direto after reading this and am loving it. I do have one question. When you do a spindown calibration in trainerroad, do you need to worry about any sort of wheel circumference adjustment, or does the software not need this information to perform an accurate spindown? Trainerroad asks you to stop pedalling at 18kph, and this only requires a few turns of the pedals on my trainer.
Thanks again.
James
I’ve been riding the Direto for a week now. I noticed recently that if I stop pedaling my chain goes completely slack and I risk getting chain suck. Is there something wrong with the freehub or is this common to direct driver trainers?
After several workouts on my new Direto I am as sure as I can be that it is reading 50+ watts too low. I have tried it in erg mode in the Elite app, Perfpro app, and Ergvideo app, and the results are consistent. I have not made a direct comparison with another power meter as both my road bikes use Powertap G3s, but these are consistent with each other and were always within about 8% of my old Computrainer.
I have trained with power for several years and am very clear about roughly the power I can produce for a given time for a given time of year. It varies a bit of course, but unless my FTP has suddenly dropped by 50+ watts in 2 weeks, or unless my other three power meters + those of all my riding mates are all overreading by 50W, the problem is with the Direto. When I’m on form my FTP is about 285W, in January it’s usally more like 260W. On the Direto, one hour at only 200W pretty much maxes me out.
Direto is callibrated (after warmup) and the offset is very close to the sticker on the unit. None of the problems with erg mode other people have experienced, holds power well as long as I’m in the right gear. Connected using first gen Garmin Ant+ dongle. Slope mode seems equally underpowered.
Could really use some help on this if anyone has any comments. Thanks to DCR for the review, the fact that you (and apparently so many other people!) got such accurate results gives me hope!
I have been using my new Direto for about 2 months now, exclusively in Zwift, and it has been flawless, until last week that is. While doing one of the “My First Century” workout, the power metric went up to the roof (ie. >1000 watts), and there was an unusual sound/feel coming from the unit itself. I tried the MyETraining app and was able to confirm the same problem. Has anyone else here experienced this issue?
I have contacted Elite Support, but no response back yet after 4 business days. Being the Holiday season I’m not too concerned just yet, but I’m wondering if anyone has had so good/bad experience with their support?
My Direto was great for the first week, then suddenly a problem developed. If I freewheel, the cassette/freehub wants to keep rotating forward, not at the same speed as the flywheel, but enough to have the chain slap on the chainstay and to worry that I might get a bad case of chain suck and have my derailleur ripped off.
If I loosen off the drive-side lock ring, the freehub freewheels better, but once I start pedaling, the forward momentum tightens down the lock ring again.
sorry if this has been answered already…I didn’t see it if it was. but will this or any other trainer support new 12 speed mtb and/or boost configuration now more standard with mtb?
Just purchased the Elite Direto trainer and been having problems with it responding to Zwift in terms of speed and elevation changes. Tried very hard to connect with someone in tech support but it seems your on your own with this trainer for help. Have been corresponding with Zwift support and it seems they are many others with the same type elevation change and or resistance issues. I’m using this trainer Bluetooth with an Apple MacBook Pro and have no other bluetooth devices connected.
Would you happen to have a tech support phone number to call for this trainer?
Hi James,
I have the same setup (Direto, Macbook Pro) and had similar issues with the Bluetooth connection. For me it sometimes worked, sometimes there was no resistance control at all.
The issue was gone as soon as I started using an ANT+ stick for controlling the Direto (I got the ANT+ stick, so I can connect to some other sensors as well).
Have you tried using Zwift Mobile Link on your phone to connect to the Direto?
From my experience so far though, I can recommend going via ANT+ – it is more reliable and also the resistance changes seem more immediate (in my limited experience). An ANT+ dongle costs EUR 16 (no name brand, works perfectly without any installation)
They’re anywhere from $25-$50. I’ve heard it recommended you buy a brand name one, to get consistent data. I had to buy a 6′ USB extension cable from my laptop to the trainer in order to get great results. ANT+ has a shorter range than Bluetooth
I can only second Jim about the extension cable. In my setup the laptop touches my front wheel and I’m good with just a 10cm extension cable I still had in my cable stash (that’s 0.3′ I guess) –
In addition to the distance there seems to be a problem with the aluminum Macbook shielding the ANT+ receiver and the short extension cord helps a lot (connection was very unreliable when plugged in directly)
Christian,
What you have observed is correct: Zwift has not implemented Elite’s BT protocol properly and as such is applying wrong slope data back to the Direto. Until Zwift does this implementation correctly it is better to use ANT+. You’ll notice when using the Direto controlled by ANT FE-C that the resistance is continuously controlled. This is because the Direto implements an algorithm (a good one I may add) that adjusts resistance to match slope for a certain speed. The slope (or call it resistance created by gravity), is simulated by brake resistance. The latter is a function of speed. So, at 10 kph, the Direto can only simulate a slope of 8.5% for a rider + bike weight of 86 kg.
I purchased my Direto in early November. It was about 3 weeks before I was able to take it out of the box and give it a try. From late November until now I have had problems with it and have been working with Elite Direto tech support to try to resolve it but am not getting very far. Problem is that when I’m awake in the US, they’re asleep in Italy, and visa versa. Here’s the problem: Using Elite MyETraining software app from my computer (or with the smart phone app) at about 300 watts and higher there is no difference in resistance, even all the way to 900 watts. Also from about 7% gradient and higher, all the way to 14%, there is no difference in resistance. Beginning at 300 watts and beginning at about 7% gradient I don’t hear any sound coming from the stepper motors. Do you guys have the notorious stepper motor beep/buzz above 300 watts and above 7% incline as it’s making its resistance changes?
Hi,
What you observe is correct. There is a simple explanation for this: riding a slope you have a fixed force pushing you back called gravity. This is fixed per grade of slope. The Direto’s resistance is delivered through a braking system. The brake resistance is a function of speed. At 10 kph, you’re maximum brake power setting will produce less watts at than at 20 kph. The amount of watts at 10 kph is 216 W for the direto. This means that if your climbing a steep slope that makes you go to your lowest gear ratio (small front and largest rear cog), you’re speed will be low and as such you’ll only be delivering only enough watts to simulate a lower slope value than the 14% (for a 14% slope and a rider of 86 kg including bike weight need to produce 343 W to reach 10 kph. The Direto only produces 216 W at that speed) . Direto uses a specific algorithm to translate slope grade to resistance. With Ant FE-C control, you will hear the stepper motor make small adjustments all the time when you do the slope set training (vs the level training that is the level of the braking system). It tries to match compensate for small changes in brake resistance that are function of speed. It’s hard to keep up an exact speed value at low RPM’s. The Direto is measuring things very accurately and will therefore make adjustments based on small changes. It will even compensate for the difference in pedaling force you have between right and left leg. Don’t worry, Elite said there is no issue with lifetime of the brake system because of this. So, Direto is truly a good trainer, but you need to understand it. Unfortunately there is no documentation explaining this. I had to ask, but they were very supportive in providing the data and explanation about how it works.
@Nick F. Thanks for the “simple explanation” lol. I was wondering the same question re. slopes and 14%. Yes indeed, it is too bad this “simple explanation” is not made very clear to potential buyers of Diretos – in laymen terms, beforehand.
To be fair, perhaps other smart trainers also function in a similar manner – re. their “maximum slope specs”?
I used a Quarq dzero so far, for trainerroad. Since 5 days I `m an owner of a Direto. Last session I made trainerroad with the direto an tracked the quarq dzero with my Polar V650.
The drivo showed always 30 watts more, than the quarq.
How can that be.
Yes I calibrated both before
I am seeing the same with my Powertap P1s. The Elite is 30w higher than the P1s throughout the whole ride. The below ride had me calibrate both the Elite and the P1 prior, then again after the 2×12 intervals.
Is there some calibration parameter with wheel size that we should be messing with to bring them back in line?
Search for my comment above using my last name. I had the same problem and Elite re-calibrated my Direto remotely using my data. It worked but I’m not a fan of it. I feel a bit cheated. The machine should come out of the box properly calibrated.
If you go the same route and have elite remotely calibrating your Direto, I recommend that you give them a data file where you cover a wide range of power values. Append, properly aligned, data from multiple sessions if you need to. The problem that I have is that when I produce a lot of power, my direto tends to underestimate my power. That’s because I had sent Elite a file where I did not do high efforts, making high wattage out of sample. So, right now, my Direto gives accurate power measure within the power range in the data file I sent. I’m thinking of asking Elite to re-calibrate the Direto.
I just did the step test (1 min at 100 + 50 watts up) and sent the results to Elite. Let’s see what they decide to tweak. I calibrated the P1 and Direto around the 20 min mark and have the results below.
Hi Eric, just having a look at your data files – couple of things pop out… Originally you mentioned your Direto was reading low as the power went up and then they tweaked it (minus high range power). So now looks like the Direto is reading a bit high at lower wattages, is that right ?
Also, as the power goes up, and the duration increases you seem to have a increasingly marked difference between left and right leg. In those high efforts, the Direto seems to be reading somewhere between the L/R values – which seems sort-of reasonable to me. Have you noticed the discrepancy yourself at high efforts ?
Excellent review as usual! Unfortunately, my experience with the Elite Direto has not been as positive. I got my unit with no hole drilled in the main unit to allow the right leg to be installed. I sent a message to Elite as well as post on their forum but no responses from them. I was so looking forward to using it after pre-ordering it in November 2017 and receiving in January 2018 and was really disappointed by getting a defective unit, and Elite not replying to my messages. I wouldn’t recommend getting an Elite trainer unless there’s a LBS or Elite repair shop that can help with defective units.
Did you remove the leg and try to make sure the screw will thread in on its own? I think I saw your post on the Elite forums. I had similar troubles, just had to sort of wiggle everything while pushing the screw. The threads are tight so you might want to have someone push the unit towards you while you push the screw in and turn.
I got my Direto this week, worked fine first couple of times then today the flywheel appears to be locked solid, it will turn barely if I stand my 106 kg on one crank at a time but the chain is more likely to snap than flywheel move mostly.
Has anyone else had this?
Bluetooth appears to be connected okay as it gives me a cadence when I back pedal on either iPad or android apps.
I have some metal flakes that I noticed on my Direto trainer by the cassette. Any thoughts on what it could be causing this? I followed the installation directions, and I don’t know what’s going on. Thoughts? Thank you.
Does anyone experience issues with the Direto not adjusting in ERG mode sometimes? On the whole it works very well, but every now and again it will just stop adjusting resistance, rather annoying when I want to enjoy recovery interval and the thing is still making me crank out 350W. The opposite is also true, sometimes it will just sit at 150W when a 350W interval comes up, sometimes by as much as 30 seconds after which it kicks in.
Anyone else getting that? Is it a signal problem? I’m using a garmin ant+ dongle on a windows pc. About 2-3m distance between the dongle and the trainer.
I have/had the same problem.
I connected it via Bluetooth.
Do you use another Powermeter. I used a Quarq dzero same time. Maybe the two signals are to much
I don’t know. Just try it. I always connected via Bluetooth and last session I canceld the connection to the quarq and the problem has gone. Maybe it was coincidence.
Is there anyone of you guys who compare the power readings from the Direto with those from STages ( I have a 2nd gen Ultegra 6800 172.5mm)?
I ask because I find some “odd” differences (normally in the range of 10W with the Direto reading higher values), which is not systematic but when it happens it Always happens more or less in this way and I was curious to determine if it’s a calibration offset, if it’s tolerance reading, if it’s legs offset (I don’t think so) or what.
Thank you so much for the feedback.
Now that I think about it I have a Stages also on the FSI. I’ll plug it on the direto and see how the things go. I’d expect that it won’t have any offset so that everything will still be confused……..
I tested again the Ultegra Stages on a workout (session of high power @ low cadence) and on a couple of recovery rides and it happened both to see the Ultegra match the Direto, and it to be below.
When below it is typically in the range of 10W or so, at times it happened to be by 20W.
The offset may change during the training, maybe after 20-30 minutes they start to match, and then after 10-15 minutes they’re again offset by 10W.
At higher candence values (above 105 rpm) i’d say it’s more difficult to see them pairing well.
I tested the FSI hollowgram stages as well on a recovery ride and it exceeded the Direto by 20W quite steadily. Never tested a real workout on the MTB to check if at different power or cadence values the story is different.
This past summer I installed a PowerTap wheel together with the STages on the road bike and they paired very nicely both at soft pace, during few sprints and during a slightly harder climb (450-500 W for less than a minute). I ended the test beliving that the Stages was fairly precise, now I start to doubt that the mtb is just over estimating my power and the MTB is the race bike…….
Tested the MTB Hollowgram Stages during workout and these are the results I got for the moment:
At low cadence (50-55 rpm) Stages and Direto pair very well, at normal cadence (90-105rpm) the offset is in the range of 20W (C’dale Stages OVER the Direto), over 105 rpm the offest increases and goes in the range of 20-30W (C’dale Stages OVER the Direto), with peaks that could each even 35W.
I did the same workout with the Ultegra Stages and results indicate same behaviour in terms of offset variations: at low cadence they seem to pair well, at normal cadence there’s an offset (and in this case the Ultegra Stages is BELOW the Direto by 10W or so) while at higher candece values the offset may increase and in that case it fluctuated between 10 and 20W (always with the Stages BELOW the Direto).
This week I’m gonna repeat the workout with a different Ultegra Stages unit, and with a SRAM Gxp Stages unit installed on a mtb of a friend of mine. Let’s see what results we get.
Could be that I’m giving too much importance on these but I’m a bit annoyed by this difference and this “lack of reliability” of the absolute data.
If the difference is cadence related, i’d be tempted to consider dynamic leg imbalance as a source of power variance as well as any inherent differences between the two meters. Even at the best of times, comparing against single-sided power meters is always going to be tricky….
I find your conclusion very reasonable and I was tempted to conclude the same, but if difference is due to my legs why one Stages decreases with cadence (Ultegra) while the other increases (C’dale)? I would find reasonable for both to go in same direction (lower cadence means higher/lower readings for both, and viceversa) while they simply get closer one another (and in particularly they meet where the Direto is) at low cadence, while they get far from the Direto at higher cadence.
I was annoyed by this because I train a lot on the road bike while I race 99,99% on the mtb: if I have to account for 20-30W less from the readings I could even do but I’d like to know that (and in any case I would be very sad :P )
Thanks Luca, I had missed the fact that the discrepancy went in two different directions. As you say, that would seem to rule out any noticeable leg imbalance effect. Good luck with your investigation, hope it has happy conclusion.
Cheers
Tim
is there anyone here that has tried to compare Direto power readings with Stages (in my case it’s a 2nd gen for Ultegra 6800, 172,5mm)?
I’m experiencing strange fluctuations, normally of about 10W (with the Direto reading higher) which may occur for the entire ride, or may come out after 30-40 minutes during which both agreed minus 1-2 W.
I do not understand if that is me, if it’s the stages or if it’s the direto and I was curious to hear others experiences
I’m assuming you’re talking about ant or BT for pairing the Direto?
If Zwift would support Native BT (so BT directly on the pc or laptop) and implements the protocol properly I would go with BT. ANT+ is just not robust enough for a cycle trainer in my mind. Nor is it for sensors on the bike. The amount of times I have signal drops during a session with ant is just not acceptable. The reality is we live in very noisy environments, noisy in the 2.4 GHz band thta is. My trainer is in the garage next to the the mian wireless AP. There is a wireless keyboard I’m using to control my zwift ride, I have BT in the PC for picking up my HR etc. It is almost impossible to keep interference under control. So, there it is: today BT and zwift with the Direto is a no go because of protocol implementation issues: Zwift please fix this!!!!! And because you have to use the zwift mobile link app: Zwift please fix this !!!!!!. You’re down to ant+. As a side note I found my suunto ant adapter has failed for whatever reason. Fortunately I had a spare ant+ usb adapter from Mantel.
Thanks. I have an ANT+ adapter, did not realize that Zwift did not support BT in Windows. No big deal I guess, all my other sensors (cadence, HR) are ANT+ only anyways. I got it all paired and it seems to be working well so far.
I have two questions regarding this trainer:
– I understand there are 2 “versions” of the step motor, one being louder than the other, is there a way to know which one it is before buying?
– Is it possible to unfold the legs, but not completely? It is larger than most other trainers and I’ve a constraint on width
I can’t answer the stepper motor question, Seb, except to sayI think I’ve got the loud one and it hasn’t been a deal breaker.
On width: My Direto is 84 cm wide with legs completely unfolded and securely clamped. If you’ve got 84.5, I’d say you’re fine. Because of the way the legs unfold, unfolding them partially doesn’t seem like a good idea. To reduce the width just 10 cm, you must really change the angle of the legs. More importantly, you can no longer clamp them in place with the clamp screw — there is nothing to clamp to as you move them inward. At a certain point, the swivel design means your weight would start to move them inward with every jiggle. I’m sure Elite’s lawyers would say NO! You might get away with it for a centimeter or two, but I’d be careful after that.
FWIW,
I ordered my Direto from Clever Training as a DCR VIP on the last day in the last hours of the Black Friday sale….
I finally received my unit, and have gotten it up and running.
I’m running it on Zwift off my late 2017 iMac mirroring to a 55” 4K (Black Friday) LCD.
Did my calibration and am within 2pts of the factory #.
Thus far it it very quiet and responsive….caveat being I’ve only just done some “berry picking” rides…. just to get acclimated, and slowly regain my some calluses on my ass….been off the bike since Black Friday….ouch….
The ONLY issue I encountered was a failure of my iMac(Zwift?) to find the Direto….following the first few suggestions of this article fixed it : link to support.zwift.com
for those of you that are nerdily inclined Zwiftilyzer reports that I’m able to achieve Ultra 1080 display of ZwiftWorld with my setup.
i7 iMac 4.2 Gig,24 gig ram, Radeon Pro 580
Oh…forgot to mention….it looks as though my unit may have been manufactured in late December around or on the 27th…..
So, that would mean that Elite had plenty of time to dispatch most if not all of the Gremlins that have been discussed here…..
We will see….so far so good….
yes, you can fold the legs with the bike on – I do this sometimes as well. The design is not ideal for this though (screws at the bottom of the Direto need to be loosened).
I would definitely not ride the Direto with the legs only partially out (as Bob mentioned)
Sébastian,
To the best of my knowledge, with very few miles ridden, I would say yes…. mine has been absolutely silent in that regard thus far.
……the caveat being, I just found that the “realism” setting in Zwift is set at 1/2 by default, which means I wasn’t feeling, nor was the program calling for, maximum input from the server motors….
Sooooo…….my next ride (work travel permitting) will be much longer and at full “reality simulation” meaning a 6% grade will “feel” like 6%…..not 2 or 3 percent……
Did my experiments. As Christian mentioned, the legs can be folded / unfolded with the bike on, provided the screws are loosened. For storage only (no rider) I found the bike / trainer still stable with legs folded to about 45-50 cm total width. If they are entirely folded it’s a little wobbly, especially on the left side, and not that much is gained.
Couple other points: I have no trouble scooting the combo around with the bike on, but I have a hard flat floor. A carpet, rug, or mat might be more awkward. I don’t typically use the clamp screws at all. I ride with the legs completely unfolded and there is no tendency for them to fold in. If you want to be completely safe, it is possibly to tighten the screws with the bike on; they’re reachable even though on the underside. Finally, I remove and store both bike and trainer after every use. Since it’s easy to put the bike on and take it off, I’d rather do that than risk damage moving them very far together.
Well got to ride today @“full reality” and the Direto is still quiet…No discernible stepper motor noise at all….My only complaint is that any hills of consequence seem to start very abruptly there is not much of a taper ……
Well I’ve got about 500 mi (770km) of Zwifting on my Direto and I’m perfectly happy…it’s quiet seems responsive, and fairly consistent with its output….there’s even been a few instances where in a rapidly increasing grade I f’d up my gear changes to much clunking and grinding, but it it caused no harm…(I have yet to attempt ERG mode)
In fact I find myself breezing past other riders on inclines ( and sprints) with very smooth gear and resistance changes….don’t know if that’s the unit, or because I’m hooked up through my imac with a very robust processor, and graphics card with a fast hardwired internet connection …..or a combination of both.
I’ve recalibrated twice and each time it’s been 2 points lower than the previous number….which I assume is due to drive belt stretch.
And FWIW….with my set up on a 55” 4K I can run 1440 Ultra….JUST…… without any major loss of frames, polygons, or blurring…I also run the Companion app on my iPad ….
I’m a very satisfied if not happy… Direto owner thus far……
Thanks for the review. It seems to be the best choice right now for those who don’t want to go over 1000€ and still have something good.
I have a question though, regardign cadence. Taking a look at those peak values (not real), would it be posible to have an external cadence sensor linked to (let’s say) an Edge? I know the answer will be yes, but will the Garmin (or any other device or app) show the power from the roll and the cadence data comming from the external ANT+/BT sensor?
I ordered the wired cadence sensor which is need to give ‘accurate’ L/R balance readings in the pedal analysis (to help confirm which is left / right foot). I also subscribed to the pedal analysis function in the Elite training app. After paying the overseas shipping on the cadence sensor I had high hopes.
It has some nice bells and whistles but I’m not too impressed for a few reasons.
1. The Elite app gives an over-all percentage (hovers around 50) for balance. However it does NOT split this up into individual L/R legs. So if you’re close like I am (48/52) and have the number hovering around 50, I have no idea which leg is laying out more power. This makes the whole thing sort of useless to me.
2. I enter the pedal analysis tool which looks like it takes control of the trainer and lets you pick the power level. I just want to over-lay this over my other apps, like sufferfest and use those. I’ll keep digging, maybe it’s possible to connect the Elite app to the power meter without control.
3. Using my Garmin to pick up the ANT+ Power meter (not connected as interactive trainer) – I set up some data fields for L/R balance since I wasn’t having much luck in the Elite app. The efficiency and torque effectiveness are not sent to the Garmin (not sure why).
But the L/R balance doesn’t seem at all accurate when sent to the Garmin. Even if I try to hammer with one leg, the balance still shows almost perfectly even…bounces between 48/52 to 50/50.
If anybody else has any advise or better luck I’d love to hear about it.
Just a follow-up on my previous note – I thought maybe it was the Garmin not processing the L/R balance, but after connecting a bike with a dual sided Power Meter, it seems like the ANT+ connection would rely on the power meter to already process the L/R balance, (unlike dual BLE connections which would let the head unit calculate).
I got a new one and so far so good. (I’ve ridden 600km in zwift, including a number of races and workouts).
I have one little concern, at certain speeds it does a little humming, but it’s not a real problem.
A few more information that may be of interest to ppl who, like me, were worried about the noise.
It is a bit noisy to my taste at high speed, but I use it mostly in ERG or resistance modes and it is *very* silent this way.
I’ve also put a thick mat underneath.
No complaints from the neighbors so far :)
One note though: the noise depends a lot on the room and the floor. I tried it in a different setup (without a mat, different house) and the noise was unbearably high…
underfloor space + tiling = bad
linoleum + anti vibration mat in my cramped apartment = much quieter
Thanks,
Well I have emailed ELITE about 10 times but sofar no solution. The shop doesn’t want to replace the unit and Elite doesn’t want to step up and send me a new one directly.
It’s the manufactures responsebility to recall the faulty ones with the lower specifications.
I don’t know where this ends but very pissed right now.
I contacted both Elite and Clever Training at about the same time.
Clever Training agreed to refund or replace the unit (although they’ve been less than exemplary on this..)
Elite answered that I contact the shop.
Sébastien, I’ve been emailing over and over but Elite insists that replacement is out of the question !
Many people got a new one but policy seem to have changed now.
I’m very dissapointed and not satisfied with the customer service.
That sucks, man….mine has been trouble free from the start I’ve only got about 400km on it but so far so good…
We’re you able to ascertain from the start that yours is an early iteration of the unit?
Mine had a date somewhere on it or buried in the literature that I mention somewhere in this thread….Dec. 27 if I’m not mistaken
I wouldn’t like to think that CT sent you one that THEY had gotten back from an earlier return…..
I would lean on them. Send Elite a severed horse head by DHA….
I was wondering just to be clear about bike fit. I have 10 and 11 speed road bikes as well as a mountain bike with boost and disk brakes. Will they all fit? Thanks
Thanks for the awesome review DC, it lead me to buying this trainer. I’m looking forward to riding on Zwift here in a few short months after i return from my deployment overseas. Hopefully we can get a ride or two on Zwift and looking forward to more of your reviews on here and youtube! Keep doing what you’re doing and growing the cycling community.
Is there any reason to believe that this direct drive trainer would have a difficult time on power and cadence analysis with the use of Q rings?
I am seeing nonstop fluctuation in both power and cadence on the Direto compared to my P2M type S. If I hold a given wattage (within a 10 watt range) the Direto will bounce back and forth in a 60-80 watt range depending on the power output. The cadence is also fluctuating from 40s to 180 or higher. I have scoured the internet for advice and gone through trouble shooting with Elite CS but nothing has resolved the problem. Do you think this is a result of the Q rings? If so, do you know if the Kickr or Kickr Snap would not have the same problem? Thanks.
Hi Sam,
I use Q rings and haven’t noticed what you say. Definately not in cadence, while regarding power I do have some fluctuation, but I consider it normal. I always train in ERG Mode with Trainer Road, just so you know.
Juan,
Thanks for the reply. A couple of questions if you don’t mind.
What are you using as the circumference of your wheel?
Do you also use Zwift? I don’t use TR, but in Zwift if I free ride the until is controlled by the app, but in Erg mode it isn’t. That may be a result of the extreme power fluctuation and cadence fluctuation of 140rpm within seconds though.
Thanks.
They can both work, though you’ll need to change the cassette each time you guys swap.
Or you can put her 11 speed cassette on and I found in a pinch I was able to find a couple gears my 10 speed worked with ok and I just used those and adjusted the resistance with my head unit rather than switch gears.
I decided to compare my Direto to my Stages PM as I noticed I was struggling to hold my indoor interval target Wattages. The following set was recorderd after a 10min warm up and calibration of both Units. link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
As expected the Elite is reading to low ( or the stages to high?) by around 20Watts!
Looking at the Left/right ballance from the Elite, my left leg power seems a bit lower, which actually would make me expect the output of the Stages would be lower than the Elite Direto, not the other way around.
I’m I missing somthing here? I wrote Elite for support allready.
Next test will be a workout in ERG mode at tresshold to know the exact offset at around 300w
Anything else I could try? I have no acces to a 3rd powermeter.
Honestly, this looks pretty close to about right. I think you’ve got three things in play here:
A) Drive train losses: Assume about 2-4% here, depending on how clean your drivetrain is. So on 150w, that’s upwards of 6w or so.
B) Variants in left/right balance: With a Stages left-only unit, you may have a greater left imbalance (lower), which is what’s causing the gap. It’s exceedingly rare to have perfect 50/50 symmetry, most people have balance differences.
Unfortunately, without a 3rd power meter to compare against, it’s really hard to know for absolute certain. But the vast majority of people have found the Direto pretty accurate (and most have also found the left leg portion of Stages pretty accurate) – which would lead me to believe that since you calibrated and such, you’re probably looking at a combination of the two factors above.
Does anyone have any issues with Zwift seeing the Direto as a controllable trainer via ANT-FEC on iPads? I put the dongle in and it can see the Direto as a power meter via ANT+ but not see it as controllable. It has no problems controlling via BT, but I’d rather use ANT.
Hi Fabio ,
You guys are way ahead of me, but I’m 64 so I feel happy with the small achievements I’m earning. My question is related to the wheel circumference I’m using, not sure if I’m doing it right. See, I use a 29er 11 speed Trek Mountain Bike and the circumference (I’m measuring with the tires on) reads approx 2400 I/o a 2070 which seems to be the regular number the Direto app shows as a default. Am I measuring it up correctly? Also, for the Direto App I maintain the original number I/o dividing it for 12.1. I hope that’s right. Thanks!
Anyone else hearing an occasional squeaking noise from the Direto flywheel during warmup? Sounds like something needs oil. It continues when I pause pedaling so I don’t think it’s the cassette/chain (both installed new with unit) or the derailleur. It goes away after a few minutes. The unit has 25 hours of use so far with no water or sweat exposure
I have 1100K on mine thus far no issues…other than calibration # seems to drop about 2 from factory # every time I run it ( about monthly) but I’m guessing that’s just belt stretch….I’ve been riding outside of late but will be back on trainer for some climbs….so I’ll have a good listen then…..
Let you know if I hear anything new…..
Update: I contacted Elite via their web site (also Clever Training which was my dealer). Elite’s person in Italy asked me for a video of the trainer in operation, which I supplied, and they are going to give me a warranty replacememt. Communications were fast and I am working with their US represenative.
Thanks for another great review. I was getting ready to buy the Direto because of your recommandation. With the Flux on sale ofor $720, would do you still prefer the Direto? I would like to have the increased accuracy with the Direto, but is it worth $180?
I am considering the Direto to replace a KK Fluid Trainer. The catch for me is that I keep my bike and trainer outdoors on a covered patio for most of the year (San Diego). The KK has been durable and I got over 10 years out of it. Will any of the direct drive models be able to handle sitting outside?
I think in general you’re going to see issues longer term with any electronic trainer in an outdoor situation, even covered (unless you lived in a super-dry place like Arizona). I’m not sure I’d find one more durable than others in that respective unfortunately. :-/
Hi
Thanks for the very thorough review. I am thinking of buying a direto but I really want pedal balance on a machine as well. How do I get that please. I am currently using a Watt Bike on a rent agreement which is ending.
Thanks
Maybe I just haven’t combed thru your site well enough, but do you have a primer on the mechanics of using Zwift? You skipped right over the “connections”!?! Never even seen anyone using it so it’s all in my imagination at the moment. I imagine there’s some kind of bluetooth link to a lappy or iPad. What about connecting our ‘smart TV’? I’m a bit time crunched on this. My trainer of choice has been rollers since 1983, and right now my cart at CleverTrainer has a Direto, a mat, a table, a wheel block, just waiting to hit place order. Been on a Cyclops a few times, so not a complete idiot about riding a trainer, but I’m going to need to maintain my fitness post rotator cuff repair (under the knife on Aug 7) and riding a trainer seems like the best bet for attempting that goal, definitely not rollers!
Since this review is from a year ago (2017) are you aware if Elite has made any changes to the 2018 unit or planning on doing so. Thanks for your great reviews Rainmaker!
I bought a March 2018 built unit a couple of weeks ago and unfortunately it had to go back. Main issue was some strange power figures, the training test gave me negative values and the raw data had some bizarre spikes. It also felt like it was under reading (just ditched my road power meter so no way to check) and my unit felt quite different when cold to warm. The cassette needed a spacer and I had some concerns over durability – the power supply plug hole did not feel that sturdy and plastic body felt a bit brittle/creaky.
The support from Elite for me at least was not positive. They say typical response to email support is 48 hours but I had nothing back so after 4 days I chased and got a garbled reply on the 5th about me using the trainer incorrectly.
I also tried their forum but the thread is still pending approval. Going on there and seeing their site admins hadn’t been on for weeks was not exactly confidence inspiring, I did email them directly in case user community could help but never got a reply.
Really disappointed with the product and their support, I am waiting now for the Wahoo KICKR Core in hope that will be better.
While browsing online bike stores, I noticed some store are also selling the Elite Direto+
According to the description: “The Direto+ includes a travelblock for the front wheel and the power measurement is 0.5% more accurate than the standard Direto”
Clever Training is showing a listing for the Direto II. Any idea what the differences are – I can’t find any details on it other than what’s listed at Clever Training.
So steep and cheap has the Direto for $675 right now and the Drivo (original) for $743. Should I just pull the trigger on the Drivo? It’s a good price but will I see that much difference?
Just started using a Direto and an struggling with fe-c control: my Wahoo elemnt finds the direto as fitness equipment and sets up trainer pages. However, the direto seems to stay in passive mode: there is no difference to resistance, whichever mode, resistance level, or wattage I choose.
The green led for Ant+ connection is on when I go into calibration on the Elemnt, but blinks again (searching connection) when I return to the normal pages.
Two thoughts based on my Elite Qubo experience. 1) the device liked to only talk to one device at a time. Make sure it’s only talking to the Element. 2) Wahoo units only like talking to Wahoo trainers. I couldn’t calibrate my trainer with the Bolt. F-EC did work though. 3) Does it make a difference if you connect via Bluetooth or ANT+? Try deleting the unit and connecting to it with the Elemnt only using the menu, not the app.
Hi Ray, thanks once again for the awesome review. I am now a proud owner of an Elite Direto myself. It’s no Wahoo Kickr for sure but I’ll take it!
I have a question here. My current paincave setup for Zwift is iPad, Direto & bike.
After a workout, Zwift does a very decent job of uploading my workout to the various platforms.
I also have a Garmin 935. While my workout is clearly registered on Garmin Connect, my Watch says otherwise. I’m quite the numbers guy and would love to have my watch reflect my workout. I tried indoor cycling mode on the 935 and ended up with a distance of 160km (I only cycled 48km). Is there any way of using the 935 with indoor Cycling mode such that my devices are talking to one another so that I can have the same data throughout? Many thanks and apologies if this question has been asked umpteen times.
In theory, if you have Physio True-Up enabled, *and* if you have Zwift connect to Garmin Connect, it should pump data back to Garmin Connect, and some amount of data then back to your FR935. The amount of data I have to double-check where the line is exactly (it’s messy). I noticed the other day that it’s actually now pulling in workouts from Garmin Connect on certain watches, but I don’t now if it only does it for certain types.
It’s on my to-do list to dig into more deeply though (as it seems like it’s constantly changing).
Just bought a Direto, and did my first intervals today. Just a couple of questions;
1. Setting targetpower to 340w, the power fluctuates a lot. Was using a edge 520 to set the target, and used a quarq to measure the power. I guess its a «smoothnes-configuration-issue» but the trainer adjusted the power kind of harsh. Was like hitting a wall if my cadens dropped, or if i stopped pedaling after the efforts. Is it possible to adjust this through the app?
2. Under «advanced configuration» in the elite-app, I find something called «power meter link», is this somehow a way to make the trainer adjust the target power from my quarq power-values instead of using the OTC? If I set the target values to 300w, I’m ending up with avg around 330-340w (calibrated both powermeters several times before and during workout, and achieved reasonable calibrationvalues). From your reviews it seems like the OTC-powermeter should be more than accurate enough to not miss this target by 10-12%? As far as I’m concerned this could have something to do with the smoothnes of the poweradjustment?
Long time reader – first time posting. I have an Elito Direto. I have ridden it about 20x on Zwift and been really happy. My last ride was weird as it seemed the systems resistance was sporadic but I kind of muscled through it. After the ride, I tried to calibrate the direto and it wouldn’t allow me to. It just kept saying pedal faster and then eventually failed. I tried this 7-8x and just gave up. I am hoping this is just a glitch and that ill be riding zwift as well as during the first 19 rides. But it bothers me that it wont calibrate. Any suggestions?
That sounds a bit more like a connectivity glitch than anything else. Likely just something transient.
Typically if I see something like that I double-check that I haven’t changed anything in the area wifi-wise (like putting in a new router or such), and then usually just unplug the trainer and plug it back in, as well as turn on/off airplane mode on my phone/iPad/whatever to reset the communications stack. Between all three things, usually it fixes it.
Hi Mike,
Not sure if the same issue, but on my Direto the belt started to slip, which meant that the resistance was sporadic and I could feel the slip under hard load. To resolve this the internal belt needed to be tightened.
For information the ‘calibration’ figure on the bottom of the unit (might look like 6575 or similar) is actually affected/controlled by the belt tension. If the number drops, you need to UP the tension. I have done this a few months ago without to much of a problem.
However two weeks ago the problem reappeared, so then I tried to calibrate and the ‘offset’ value wasn’t changing. And then on a calibration cycle (where you pedal as per instruction) the belt completely snapped.
To Elite’s credit the local distributor in Australia called me (actually out of hours on a Friday) and sent me a link to this video. link to youtube.com
Then when I replied on Monday (after opening the unit and checking it was in fact the belt), they sent out a new belt and pulley. Which I was able to fit without too much hassle. I have only done one ride since then, but it seems to be all good. (Hoping to use the DC Analyser to confirm accuracy with P1 pedals)
Hope you don’t have a belt issue, but if you do it is not too hard to resolve.
So frustrating! Used the Direto again today and the power is spiking up and down. I have plugged everything in and out/ turned wifi on and off and still the same. Totally sucks as I was looking forward to a ling workout today. Any other suggestions? Using ANT+, changed wheel circ to 173 as outlined in GPlama and the manual. I was able to eventually get it to calibrate but only with wheel circumference at 2070. Help!
Mike,
Mine was unridable but with the new Zwift update I diconnected everything re calibrated and tightened belt back to factory spec and it SEEMED…OK…. if maybe still too easy….I need to ride again and see if things are back to normal…
FWIW I run zwift hardwired thru my iMac mirrored to a 55” tv…and run the companion ap on iPad….so my wireless is not an issue….the Bluetooth seems to have been.
Mike, I have been experiencing the same thing. Power reading jumping around like crazy and also resistance going up and down on even grade and constant cadence. I tried everything I could to fix. But now I am in contact with Elite in Italy. They had me do a test using the mytraining App. There is no solution yet as they are looking at the data. But they did say they never heard of this issue. May I suggest everyone having this issue contact Elite Customer Service and report the issue. This way they are aware of the problem and perhaps come up with a solution to resolve it.
Have you had any resolution with Elite? I have been very frustrated dealing with them. We are going on 3 weeks with this issue. Their response is lacking but we are at point that they feel it is the electronic board. I have asked for next steps but they have not emailed me back. I finally called them on Friday and got a message saying it was a local holiday. UGH! I will keep trying but wondered if you had any further luck.
In the meantime, using ZWIFT workouts with ERG on seems to allow me to work out for a few workouts without too much fluctuation as ZWIFT seems to want to normalize the resistance to ensure tyou are working out in the correct power zone. I will try again today and hope it works.
Bottom line – very disappointed – hoping it works like it did for my first 10 rides.
For a few months I’ve had a bit of occasional loud clicking from the Direto.
I had retightened the frewheel cassette hub etc but the noise was noticeable on inclines and standing on the pedals with a high gear or low cadence high power.
On occasion I would have to lighten my force on the pedals when the noise occurred afraid I would break something.
Anyway today I have totally lost resistance and cadence.
On looking inside the casing I can see that the belt has snapped.
The belt has cracks in it all along one side- Is this what happens when it wears or does it show a fault with the Direto?
I also noticed that the large grey freewheel has quite a bit of play or side to side movement. Is this normal, have others noticed play in the large grey freewheel when their belt has snapped?
I have contacted Elite support last week but I have not had any response. The Direto is 13 months old and all I want to know is from Elite or others here is the side to side movement of the large grey wheel normal – and do I just need to order another belt from Elite.
Yes, I had exactly the same problem. However because my Direto was only 7 months old they sent me the spare parts as per attached. Once I fixed it it came right back to normal. Utube has a video(you can scan QR code from the pic I attached) where they show how to replace it. Don’t forget to update and offset your Direto as per number located on the bottom of your trainer. Each one has a different number. Mine is 6337 , for example!
Thank you for your reply. I have ordered the parts from their website earlier today, still no response from them though.
The large grey wheel that the belt goes round did you notice, with the belt removed, if it had side to side movement?
As mine does move from side to side quite a bit.
The large grey wheel of my DIRETO does not seem to have that problem you’re mentioning. Perhaps ELITE will advise you to replace that wheel as well.
Have you tried your local seller for the spare parts you’re ordering? Maybe they carry such parts and you won’t have to order them from Italy!
My Direto, also 13 months old – snapped belt. But this is the second time the belt has snapped. First time after just 4 1/2 months. Another observation is that my FTP varied widely pre and post that first repair – more than 10% so I’m beginning to question the accuracy of the trainer.
Hi, I have got a question about your accuracy analysis that you performed. I have found that my Elite Direto reads about 15 to 20 watts lower than my Stages (single sided), and even a bit lower still than my Quarq (dual), in certain situations. The stages and the quarq seem to be relatively consistent except at high power after a long time, which I always attributed to my right-side dominance becoming more pronounced as fatigue sets in. I regularly calibrate the Elite and do a zero offset on the other two PMs every time i ride.
I thought that this was normal for the Elite to measure lower than the crank-based PMs because of efficiency loss in the system, i.e. the fact that it measures at the “wheel” (virtually) rather than at the crank. But, is this correct? You don’t seem to have this discrepancy in all of your files, so I’m wondering if maybe, one or more of my devices needs to be serviced.
Has anyone had issues with the quick release and NDS endcap with standard 130mm frames? I just got a Zumo (my girlfriend has the Direto) and neither my Cannondale Supersix Evo or Cevelo P2 will adequately clamp using the QR. It’s like the NDS endcap is too long. I end up having to use the 5mm spacer on the outside of the dropout in order for it to clamp using the QR (see attached photo). I’m about to reach out to Elite, but wondered if anyone else had issues. Thanks!
Thanks! I went back and looked at the directions and see what you mean. The directions for the Elite trainers aren’t exactly the easiest to follow, but they do cover like 50 million languages…
I really like the Zumo thus far. I came from having an old Computrainer and like the Zumo much better. My girlfriend has the Direto and I honestly can’t tell the difference from the Zumo. I’m not putting out 1000 watts, so I have no idea how this would work for someone bigger and stronger, but it fits my needs.
Seems like a dated post, just hoping someone would still respond!I was planning to buy one in the states and ship it with me as I travel back to my home country. What are the dimensions/weight of the box, plus is the packing good enough to ship it in the airlines ?
I am the proud owner of a Direto with loud version stepper-motor.
It’s a solid unit imo.
The only “issues” are the noticeable lag of 15-20 seconds in reaction to adjusting its power levels to Erg interval power changes in TrainerRoad and Zwift, and about a 4 second delay in Zwif game mode to slope changes. Both of these “issues” are not deal-breakers for me.
The deal breaker issue for me is that annoying bleeping beep beeep beeeep beep beep constantly, as the loud version stepper-motor attempts to re-adjust itself to maintain the desired power at the pedals.
To be fair, if one constantly maintains drivetrain speeds of >25 mph, it helps camouflage the bleeping beeping.
And no, increasing my fan speed (not really necessary, if I open the window during winter indoor trainer season anyways) or turning up the music volume to drown out a loud annoying noise with mega decibels of extra noise, is not my idea of a solution. So I will sell my unit to someone who has no issues blasting music away during all their workouts.
Elite’s customer service response to another loud Direto owner’s request (on a UK Timetrialling website) to exchange the loud Direto unit is below:
Good Afternoon
We have produced Direto with two different stepping motor one of them with the noise level that there is in the video you sent me
Both of them are completely approved by us, so the noise of the trainer from the video you have sent me is completely in tolerance with our standard for that type of internal motor (and in anyway there is no possibility to reduce the noise)
Can you confirm that Elite trainer firmware can not be updated using the Elite app. Can’t find a confirmation on this other than one Youtube video noted it.
In the review of the tacx flux 2 you stated that they had improved the gradient control speed down so its not a ridiculous figure like 40 or 50 kph. is that an issue with the direto or the kickr core even?
Hi, in your tacx flux 2 review you mentioned the gradient /speed control was much better, down from 50kph or somethng silly. is that the case with the direto or the kickr core even?
Thanks for all the great info. Ok, looking to get either Elite Direto II, or Tacx Flux II. Not a huge wattage guy here, better climbing abilities. Like the idea of accuracy too, but not much difference between the two. Recommendations? Thanks.
Colin
I was ready to pull the trigger on the Suito for my second trainer (it will live in storage about half the year and be used in a long-stay hotel when I am working away from home)
NOW I see the Direto II being sold at $649 at Clever Training. They appear to about the same weight. I’ll be hooking up a 10-speed Salsa Vaya if that matters since I cannot use the cassette included with the Suito. Whatcha think? Is the Suito worrth the month wait and $150?
The Direto II is honestly a better trainer than Suito in terms of power accuracy and most specs. ERG mode is a little bit faster on Suito, but if you use the right gearing combo (small ring in front) you won’t notice. Suito is more compact for storage, but if that doesn’t matter, then I’d pickup the deal.
Thanks Ray! I’ll likely never notice the ERG mode difference based on how much I currently ride on my home trainer (KICKR Core). This model hits the sweet spot for my needs I think.
Quick follow-up questions. I’ve now read all the comments here and am curious what you know about the Direto II and noise. I am guessing it is not an issue, but since I’ll be using it in a hotel, it’s more of a concern than when I use my KICKR Core in my garage. I get the impression that the noise is no worse than my TV with Zwift or a movie and some music. I was curious if they stopped sourcing the offending motor for the quiet one.
My other question is do you think it’ll be a clean transition between it and my Core for TrainerRoad or Zwift ERG workouts. That is the main purpose for me buying it. I want to maximize my ability to train while away from home.
Noise level wise it’s the same as before (1 vs 2), no difference there. The printer noise people talked about is long since gone from production, so no worries on that (and it’s not something that you’d have heard through rooms anyway).
Noise-wise is definitely less than a TV/movie. The main issue you’ll have with (any) trainer and ‘neighbors’ tends to be more vibrations than anything else. being on carpet/towel/mat helps a bunch. Unless your hotel is really old or with bad soundproofing, you won’t have any issues.
Hi Ray,
I am really interested in how the Direto stacks up in relation to your recent comment about Flux 2 “Most trainers aren’t really designed to handle very low speeds at high gradients. So the mid-range trainers and lower end trainers especially suffer here, and can’t hold the inclines they say at the lower speeds. For example, the Flux 1 can technically hold 15% grade…but only if you were going 50KPH” What is the lowest speed that the Direto can maintain is maximum grade of 14%?
Hi Ray, Ignore my previous post. I found all the information on the power vs slope question buried in the middle of the thread. I just need to look for longer!
Hey Ray–I’m loving my Direto II and using Rouvy and an old ipad IV (No usb). Any suggestions as to how I can easiy get my HR to show on the Rouvy application? It displays on the Garmin 520 plus head unit fine (Garmin HR band–the standard black unit).
Unfortunately with an iPad and an older Garmin strap there isn’t a good way to do that since the iPad can’t read ANT+, and the older Garmin strap doesn’t do Bluetooth Smart.
You could get a converter pod (like the NPE Cable), but honestly you’re gonna spend more for that than just picking up a dual ANT+/BLE strap like the Wahoo TICKR.
Well after slightly over 2 years, Direto refuses to adjust resistance or do anything in ERG, thankfully the resistance seems to be locked into a mode where I can still row through the gears and hit targets.
Contacted Elite, let’s see what they say.
Stepper motors no longer make any sounds when starting or anytime.
Tacx Vortex Smart still going strong after 4.5 years. Direto barely made it 2years.
Hi Ray,
Having read this review as well as some of your others including the trainer guide for 2019-2020 and the Elite Suito, my question is this: Here in South Africa the Elite supplier has both the Suito and the Direto (seems like the Direto, not Directo X from their website) for the exact same price. Which would you choose between them given the same price?
Thanks in advance.
Hi.
Thanks for being arguably the best sports gear reviewer in the biz. Never a stone unturned.
Im about to purchase a used Direto.
I have no experience with powermeters and probably i shouldn’t even consider worrying about this, but lets say it turns out I can hit 1500W at 40kph. What happens then? I break the trainer?
1,400W @ 40KPH / 2,200W @ 60KPH
How does that work? What about “standing start” max efforts? Are these forbidden?
Generally speaking when you go beyond that amount it simply doesn’t provide meaningful resistance and either you feel a bit of slippage (wheel-on trainers), or simply don’t feel like you’re pushing anything more.
There’s nothing forbidden per se. The trainer won’t break or anything.
For example, today I was testing the budget-focused Tacx Flow Smart ($349/249EUR). When I went beyond the 800w limit, it basically doesn’t provide resistance beyond that. It’s almost identical feeling to running out of gears in the real world outside.
I have an Elite Flux since some weeks ago with really good results and accuracy using Zwift and Rouvy and no issues yet.
So it happens that now I also have an Elite Directo ( long story ) and today just tried to calibrate / set up with the Elite App and just went for some minutes to Zwfit for a try.
What´s happening is while been paired succesfully by Bluetooth to Zwift then while riding the Direto is having the green light blinking and annoying beep …what´s going on ?
Has anyone found a solution to the Direto not playing nice with the Elemnt Bolt where using the wheel circumference of 0.174 results in very slow speed readings. It often reads correctly initially until you hit past 33kph then for some crazy reason it drops to like 2-3kph.
Neither Elite or Wahoo have provided a solution but the last time I checked in with them was almost a year ago.
It sucks not being able to re-ride previous recorded courses on my Bolt at the proper speed.
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Hi Ray,
he drivio comes with a USB dongle, or believe.
It looks like that is not the case here?
No, it’s not included in the Direto package. I suspect at this point they assume you’re either using Bluetooth Smart on some device, or that you already have one. Failing that, $11: link to amzn.to
I have just purchased a Direto and am not sure if I need a USB ANT+ dongle!
I will be using my non-bluetooth Laptop for Zwift and other platforms…….let me know how I connect the trainer to the laptop.
Huge thanks
Yup, in short, you’d need the stick. Some ANT+ stick, really any stick.
It may be worthwhile checking in your circle of friends, especially runner friends. Many runners may have older Garmin Forerunner watches (made more than 3+ years ago) that had sticks that came with them that they might not be using anymore sitting in a desk drawer.
Hi Ray,
Great review,
about the delay in erg mode, I saw that if you slight reduce the cadence while the power increase seems to mitigate the problem, but it’s normal, it’s the time that the annoyng louder stepper motor need to move the magnet.
Anyway I’m very, very impressed about the power accurancy, it’s crazy specially at that price!
I’m one of the lucky people that had recived their Drivo on Thursday and I play with it all the weekend, also because of too many rain in Italy :-)
For anyone with Campy, you can get a modified Shimano cassette from Wheels Manufacturing that allows you to use the the shimano freehub body. It’s expensive, but I’ve used this on several trainer and it works perfectly with my campy drivetrain.
link to wheelsmfg.com
I’m a little confused about that cassette – 11-speed spacing should be the same on Shimano and Campagnolo cassettes (for all practical purposes) and are basically drop in compatible. That’s been demonstrated pretty much since they’ve were released, so you should be able to just use any old Shimano 11-speed road cassette with your 11-speed Campy drive train.
You’re right – just use a Shimano or SRAM 11 sp cassette and you’ll be fine.
Yes, it does work, but the WM cassette has the spacing tweaked (and I think the cog profile) to make it work more smoothly with Campy shifters/chain…
It’s just quieter and shifts better.
The link you give is to run 11-speed Campy on a 10 speed Shimano body. Like the others said, just run an 11-speed shimano cassette and it’ll work with shimano sram or campy.
What about 10 speed Campy?
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the review — very helpful, as ever. One follow up question.
A few people on the Direto Facebook page are reporting the trainer has a distinct ‘old printer sound’ when adjusting resistance. You note the Direto is ‘middle of the road’ in terms of noise, but I was wondering if you’d noticed this buzzing sound or have any thoughts on how distracting / off-putting it is?
Thanks in advance!
Ed
Link to the Direto Facebook posts: link to facebook.com)
If I’ve skimmed through all those posts correctly, it’s actually just one person hearing a sound (and the rest referencing a circular reference of the same person in multiple sites).
If you’re not pedaling, you should hear a very slight sound when powering on the trainer and if changing in ERG mode. It does have similarities to an old printer, but that it’s about the same loudness as your cell phone vibrating on a couch in a quiet room (not a table, a couch). If it’s any louder than that, then something is defective/broken. You definitely can’t hear it after you pedal even the slightest bit, since it’s so quiet.
Thanks for the quick reply and for clearing that up. I have one on order at CT, so good to hear that you’ve not experienced any issues!
I agree with how Ray described when you hear the sound, and its volume. I didn’t even think twice about it until I read the post on the Facebook page. I always have headphones on when riding indoors so it’s not a factor for me at all.
Thanks for the support Ed!
Ok, for fun I made a short 78 second video that demonstrates the sound: link to youtube.com
Thank you for the video of the sound. My direto is much louder and now I am worried because you wrote that something might be defect/broken.
Does Ray get the best units or what is the issue. This is the sound in my unit which is VERY different! link to youtu.be
Well, it sounds like at least Jason got the same sound as I. I’ll circle back to Elite folks on it…
Mine too, exactly the old printer hum all the time…
I listened to both videos. From what I recall, mine sounds more like TK’s. Again, I wasn’t worried when I heard it. Probably best to let Elite listen and respond about noise levels and variance between trainers.
JK – what do you mean by “all the time”? Every time you plug it in? I’ve only used the trainer briefly, with an Elite app video (free one), for 15 minutes, and I don’t recall that same “plug in” noise again. But I was also watching a DVD with headphones on.
@Jason. All the time when on Zwift, with gradient and resistance changes you can hear the ‘matrix dot printer’ noise. Maybe I should wear headphones too ;-)
Hi Ray,
please can you look at my video and tell me if is the case I call Elite for some support?
Thank you.
My power on video: link to youtu.be
Thanks Ray, I will definitely test that and ensure I get the same *low level* buzz before I leave the local bike shop!
Yours does sound louder Andrea than mine. To be fair, the Tacx Neo also makes a buzz of sorts on power-up too.
Do you hear the buzz at all while riding the Direto (with headphones off)?
JK – thanks. Question (as I’ve never used these apps, yet) does the buzz happen when you change wattage or when the app increases decreases resistance, or both? And is the buzz the exact same as when plugging it in?
Andrea – I just checked and the plug in sound from mine is identical to yours.
I haven’t set up any apps so I don’t know if it’s the same sound when riding.
Would the Elite app videos, with incline changes, be a good test? I can try later tonight…
To test this out I went ahead and downloaded Zwift (7-day free trial).
It was on the London map, and not surprisingly the elevation/incline didn’t get too intense. I noticed some downhills at -3% and uphills at 4%. I left off the headphones and the fan. I pedalled for about 15 minutes. I didn’t here the buzz at all during this time. The plug-in buzz is loud enough that if it was happening during my ride I would’ve heard it, and again, I didn’t hear anything except for my pedalling. I also shifted several times, and went easier and harder. If this volume is the ‘normal experience’, I have zero complaints :-)
Looking forward to hearing from others…
I have the “louder” “dot-matrix” buzzing. Honestly if others hadn’t brought it up I wouldn’t even have had any second thoughts about it. It happens on start up and occasionallyduring Zwift but it’s not really annoying (to me anyway). I’ve had a defective Flux so I’m definitely more paranoid than most, but for me would qualify as normal.
Definitely yes,
I do workout,so in erg mode and the speed it’s not enough to cover the buzz , I’m quite sure that with zwift as the speed is more, you don’t hear the buz at all.
In my opinion to accelerate the production they have jump something in the , so the product is working but you get some minor quirk.
Anyway today I will call Elite and ask for support for the buzz, but maybe someone like you Ray, that have a better/bigger impact with the Elite company, can call and ask for serious consideration of the problematic that someone seems to have.
Thank you Ray every time your word are welcome.
The best way to hear the buzz is in ERG mode, simply because the trainer is constantly trying to adjust the power output.
I have the loud buzz, too, on start-up and every time the resistance changes in ERG-mode.
I’ve already asked for clarity from Elite last night, so I suspect we’ll see some of that today.
Great, Ray, thank you very much!
Hi Ray and thank you,
Today called Elite and they ask to me to send the video, I’m waiting for a answer.
It’s odd because it work correctly,well at the end of the day you can tolerate , even because at a certain point the sufferance is much bigger :-)
Hi Ray, some folk at Elite tell me that this different sound is because of two different brand of stepper motor, one work with an higher frequencies and it’s a bit louder, but they told that while pedaling the sound it’s the same……well it’s a lie.
Officially they will produce a video where demonstrate that, and of course I will respond with mine, while I’m doing an ERG workout.
The reason it’s quite simple….it work with higher frequencies every time and
is clearly audible while pedaling, it’s not a joke I’m deaf at 50% and in the same side of the stepper motor!!
I don’t know if laugh or cry.
I tried a workout in Zwift tonight, which I presume is ERG mode. I picked the Wringer, so after 8 min warmup you have 30s at 365w then 90w for 2:00. Maybe because I’m pedalling, but I didn’t hear the buzz as much as when I plug it in. So I can’t say if the volume of the buzz is as loud, and for as long. Bigger issue was that I couldn’t hit 365w :-( lol
Hi Ray,
I read you spoke with Elite today, may you have some news for the buzz issue?
Also I need some help from anyone intersted in this problem, because I have to send a video to Elite while riding, but after some test with the phone it’s very difficult to capture the buzz togheter with the other rumor, not because isn’t there but because of the limit of the phone microphone,so I need someone with a better microphone that can get the buzz while riding and after I will send to Elite, please help me.
Thank you.
So chatted with Elite a bit on this, and yesterday they spent some time doing some tests and putting together a video.
Essentially depending on different batches of trainers, the parts will result in different sounds for the moving magnet noise. Some quieter, some louder. As we’ve seen, some folks end up with quieter ones, others louder ones. Further, they noted that the length of the noise will depend on where it has to move from in it’s previous position, as well as whether it’s power on or steady-state.
Elite recorded a person on a trainer showing the sound alone (the louder variant), the trainer alone, and the sound + trainer.
Here’s that video (they just sent me a video file, so I stuck it up unlisted on YouTube): link to youtu.be
I can’t really argue with what the numbers show. It’s no doubt louder than what I’m hearing, but as the numbers show, it’s immediately drowned out by the sound of the trainer/gearing. :-/
Sorry Ray
I think could be a good idea if you ask to Elite to send to you ine ofthe new Direto unit with the louder motor and you can test it for rumor, what do you think?
It’s a mater of justice, I pay the same price as your but I got a much more louder unit than you, so why they don’t want to admit?
I think your post and my post published at the same time. Let me know if the above doesn’t cover it.
You know I’m sure that the number don’t speak nothing, it’s the frequencies the problem, the buzz is cleary audible while riding even with the same noise level.
For examp,e with number I can dimostrate that there are something after the death ;-)
Yeah, I guess at this point I’m just not sure there’s a real issue other than not liking that tone. It’s a different tone yes – but so is the gearing, the flywheel, and your fan.
That said, having different part suppliers in the same product line with quite a difference in the end-state output is kinda weird to me.
YESSS, you have take the point!!!!
Ray, thanks for following up and sharing here.
Question – do you think there would be any quality issues with the “louder” parts that are in some trainers? I’m generally fine with the noise, but I wouldn’t want inferior parts that may lead to other issues down the road. If it’s only a difference in sound levels, and no other differences, that is reasonable.
It’s like air conditioners for houses, when I had mine installed (someone I know well), he said you can pay $ extra for the quieter model, but the only advantage is that it’s quieter. Otherwise they’re the same.
I’m guessing they pass the same quality levels no matter the loudness. I think it’s simply just a case of limited availability of parts, sorta like how the power meter portion is currently the limiter on trainer production.
Ray, thank you very much for chatting with Elite and for providing the video.
I agree with Jason and feel it the same way: If it isn’t a matter of functionality I do not care much about the louder noise. But it’s definitely strange to sell so different units.
For what I can tell, it work like a charm, it’s another point there, it’s the point that with their choice has produced client A and client B.
I’m sure they did in faith, but the think remain, and also seems to refuse any critique from customere like me, who have problems with their choice
Regards.
Thanks for following up with Elite, Ray.
The video from Elite does illustrate that drivetrain noise is louder than the beeping, although this may depend on whether a representative drivetrain, in terms of maintenance, was used to produce the video. It would also have been useful for them to record the bike in motion while the beeping occurs, to give us a more ‘real-world’ impression of how perceptible the noise is while riding.
The bit that concerns me is that Elite seems to have sent ‘quiet’ units to major reviewers prior to launch — indeed, the issue has only come to light after customers started to receive their Diretos. I’d be willing to bet the units displayed by Elite at Eurobike were also of the quieter variety.
All of which seems a bit disingenuous to me. If Elite were aware of a discrepancy between units then they should have made this clear at the outset. This is certainly the first time I’ve ever heard of such a difference between products of the same model number, without the difference being caused by manufacturing error etc.
My Direto has yet to be shipped by CT, so I don’t know whether I’ll have an effected unit or whether I’ll be bothered by the sound. I think mine is due to go out start of next week, so I have a few days to decide whether to switch to a different option (Flux or Kickr, if I can find one on a decent sale).
Just noticed that they did record the drivetrain and beeping noises at the same time toward the end of the video. Drivetrain certainly seems to drown out most of the beeping, although, given the high pitch of the beep, it’s definitely still perceptible.
And how we can be sure that other parts are the same. If Elite is showing off the silent unit, there also can be differences in the power measurement unit.
I lost my faith in Elite.
The users are only ones with this issue. Ray is happy with his premium version.
What’s funny here is this is the same sound that’s been on other Elite trainers for years, and it’s virtually never talked about.
As for your statement about accuracy differences, there’s really no basis for that. We know that all OTS components come from a single manufacturer, in Germany (a small company). After all, that’s why there’s limited production of Direto right now. In fact, I even met the inventor of OTS at Eurobike randomly.
I get that there’s weirdness between having two different motors, but it’s not something that extends beyond that sound. Interestingly, I think my pre-prod unit is actually louder. I’ll do a quick check tomorrow. My point being, it’s not something that I really even noticed/cared about at the time, since it’s been on Elite units for years.
But to each their own.
I can’t speak for the past, it’s my first and maybe last Elite product, but because there is a precedent what TK said colud be true.
So could be very nice, if two people there with the buzzer unit and a power meter would share with us some power reading.
I mean, I don’t want to tellthat there isn’t the OTS, but who can tell to us if they did a good job while calibrating the device and with the same result of yours, or maybe yours it’s a bit tweaked to gain more point in your rewiew?
After you treachery your customer, it’s very diffucult to gain another time credit.
Look, with their video they said “hey the problem is yours, as you can see”, but it is not.
I was zwifting yesterday evening and during the ride I can hear the pemanent changing of resistance when I hit watts up to 300. To be clear here: the Direto is overall very silent which is true for the buzz of resistance change, too. Thus, when saying I can still hear it, it is really no problem regarding the overall sound.
I was worried by an earlier comment from Ray that this might be a malfunction or defect. Since Elite states that there is no problem with that sound and explains it by using a different motor, I tell myself not to worry about it. To be on the safe side on this I’m going to inform the seller and direto about this.
Two other remarks on quality control: The outer plastic shell of my Direto has a minor flaw where it is fit together with the other half. No big thing, but I would have expected that perfect quality control would have sort this piece out. Two stickers on the folding legs are missing. No big thing, too, but QC is not on top level here, that’s a fact.
Besides these minor flaws I really enjoyed the ride on the Direto an I’m looking forward to the winter season on a still great trainer. Considering the price I paid (699€) I can’t complain.
No further discussion on the resistance change buzz sound?
I care about the silence a lot since I want to be riding early morning hours (starting 5 AM) in a block of flats. I’m assuming using the ERG mode I can be riding hard while maintaining fairly low speed and in this case would be resistance change buzz be not too loud / annoying?
One more question – no such issue at all on any Drivo unit?
Thanks in advance for your reply!
Similar to Easy’s post above, the buzz while riding is very quiet, and most often split-second as the motor is adjusting resistance in small increments (unless going up 100’s of watts…but that’s not loud either, to me). The sound of you pedalling (drivetrain) is not surprisingly, louder, as it would be on any trainer. Once you get going and stop trying to listen for stuff, you don’t notice anything.
Jacek – do you you have a current trainer that you use indoors at 5am? If no sound problems with your neighbors I would assume the same for the Direto. The overall sound video posted bub Ray covers this. And the one by Elite (that one might be on the FB page).
Just as a minor update, this morning I pulled out the prototype Direto and compared the sound to the production one. Sure enough, the prototype one is the louder variant. What’s funny here is that it never really occurred to me, since it’s the same sound as the Drivo and other trainers they’ve had previously. All of which is instantly drowned out by the noise of the drivetrain/etc.
I didn’t quite have time to make a video as I was running to catch a train, but it simply matches the sounds already published above.
Thought I’d add an update now I’ve put a few hours on my Direto. I have one with the louder motor, but I don’t notice it when riding. If I try and listen out for the noise, then it is perceptible over drivetrain noise (barely), but mid workout it’s not something I notice (exception being shifts of a large number of watts in erg mode — e.g. doing sprints and recovery intervals).
Very happy with the trainer overall and I’d definitely recommend it. I had been using a Kickr SNAP — the Direto both feels better and is much less hassle to set up. It’s really nice to be able to just ride without having to worry about advance calibration every time etc.
Thanks for the update. Haven’t been using mine much so far. What app(s) have you been using?
I think i got a direto from the same exact batch as you. Also no stickers and also outer plastic shell not completely aligned at the point in which they join… Did Direto reply to your message @Easy?
I recently purchased a Direto trainer. It does makes a “dot matrix printer” noise all the time. But it is not that annoying to me given the white noise from the fan, drive train noise, and music I am playing drown it out. I think it is a common “feature” of this trainer.
Hi Ray, I just set up my Direto and that “printer sound” you refer to and have illustrated in your video is not the one I’m getting from my unit. I get more of a low howl of the type old dot matrix printers would make when the printer head would slide across the page before printing started. I’ve attached a video….I think this may be what some of your readers are referring to.
Same here. Nothing like the quiet hum-type one you get from your unit Ray when you plugged it in your video. I contacted elite and they told me it’s normal. Perhaps normal for this trainer, but it is a downer. In ERG mode it’s not bad at all. But when riding around Zwift, it’s bad, and loud. I still stand behind my previous comments that it’s a bit slow to respond in Zwift in general (compared to my bushido), and I think that exacerbates the dot matrix printer noise.
I’ve got the same concern. I’ve spent the last 3 days trying to set mine up. Mine definitely sounds like starting up an old school printer when it starts up. Not to mention I cannot figure out how to get it calibrated within my Garmin 820. I’m either going 100 mph or 2.
Hi,
I have the Direto for 3 days and I have this mobile phone noise vibrating on a chair ;-), and this at the beginning of the slope of 7/8%, it does not bother me so much the quality of pedaling is much better than a tacx genius for example …
Raphael
Hi Ray,
I see that you’re looking to update the Annual Trainer Apps guide for October. Have you come across BigRingVR? It’s in an free open public beta atm, and I’ve been really impressed with it. (I’m in no way affiliated with it, I just like the app, and the developers are extremely responsive on Strava and Twitter).
Yup, I’ll ensure it’s on my list. Generally speaking my cut-off for apps is that they have had to release some sort of update since early spring. I feel like if they haven’t done that, then they aren’t really a real player in the space. Again, just a rough line in the sand.
Hi,
I just learned about Big Ring VR thanks to your post. Direto is not listed as a supported trainer but am I correct in assuming that everything will work as perfectly as both Direto and BRVR both support ant+ fec?
I rode a bit with Big Ring and it work flaulessy with Direto, it’s a bit annoyng that if you stop a ride at certain point you have to create a custom one to restart from the last point, but apart this it’s a very good program and work great.
BigRingVR will definitely work with the Elite Diretto. It works with all ANT+ FE-C trainers, ANT+ power meters, speed, cadence and heart rate sensors.
We’ve been releasing new versions of BigRingVR about once every month, so that cut-off won’t be a problem.
Also, we’re releasing new rides in beautiful HD video once every few days.
Nice review.
Ordered one to replace my vortex. Would you say I will feel much difference in terms of road feel?
Also, is the calibration bike specific? Can I use multiple bikes and get consistent power readings?
Thanks!
The calibration is location-specific, or basically more temp specific. Not bike at all. So you can swap bikes no problem.
As for the Vortex, yes, the Direto feels much better to me.
Great review, thanks.
As someone new to smart trainers and the apps, I found it especially helpful that you covered TR and Zwift in the way you did. I was confused about how the resistance/watts of the trainer is controlled via the apps, though now I understand this much better.
I didn’t even realize that the Direto can provide cadence data (I received mine the other day, but have only tried briefly…as the weather has been great where I am). I’ll be using the Wahoo Cadence sensor though, and given some of the slight imperfections you pointed out, it’s probably worth the small price I paid.
Thanks for another great review Ray. I placed my order on CT on 8/12/17 and it should be delivered in two days.
Hope my experience will be as pleasant as yours.
Cheers
Great review DC (as always)…and now since you have confirmed some of what you wrote earlier this is going to be my trainer….period.
Hi I’ve just looked on the Evans cycles site and they will be shipping these shortly however it only mentions suitability for sram and Shimano cassettes no mention of campagnolo
For everyone interested, speaking with a tecnician at Elite, he told me that the android application will support the pedaling analysis shortly, and that they are tweaking the algoritm to speed up a bit the things while there are big wattage differences in ERG mode.
Hi,
Is there any direct drive trainer that can work with a 8-speed shimano cassette, maybe with some spacers? I’ve an old alloy bike solely responsible for trainer duty, I was using it with a Tacx Flow but it died recently, I would love a direct drive but don’t want to shell out for a groupset upgrade.
Another option I’m looking into is a Kickr Snap + cheapish powermeter (Favero maybe) on a later time and pair them together. For my tri and road bike I already have a P2max.
As always, great review Ray, keep it up!
Could you just replace the 8 speed chain with an 11 speed one? I think it will mesh fine with 8 speed chainrings.
Now that you mention, probably it would work since the 11-speed chain would only be narrower, I would only need an 11-speed shifter and and an 11-speed derailleur, which I may find them cheap used.
You might not need any of that, I think the chain will wrap around the jockey wheels of the existing derailleur. And you don’t really need to shift with an ERG trainer so just get it index to mesh with one of the cogs of the cassette and it should all work as is.
Maybe..
Indeed, but shifting would be useful when on Zwift (although I only use it in the off-season). But I could get a shifter only and use the current derailleur, I’m sure it doesn’t have the range to do 11 but it may work for 9/10 sprockets.
I’m just rambling here…
Anyway, thank you for your feedback, it’s indeed an option I haven’t though before and might work, albeit a little frankensteinish :)
Why do you need the power meter with the Snap…comparison??
I may be wrong, and dcrainmaker’s snap review surely tells otherwise, but I’m not sure on how reliable the snap can be week after week, but as I said, I might be, and probably am, wrong.
Until recently I didn’t care about reliable numbers, I was only using a Tacx Flow and the numbers were reproducible, so they were good enough for training, but now with a real PM on my main bike I would like to track accurately my weekly TSS, and use the same power ranges for both indoor and outdoor (although these might differ a little).
If I go with the Snap, before investing in another PM I will compare it with my power2max and if the numbers are accurate enough I’ll call it quits.
8 speed cassette with a 1.85mm spacer should fit just fine on the trainer, right?
Think of the trainer as if its a wheel with an 11 speed hub. Seems like you just need the spacer:
link to bikeradar.com
For the Snap, and I have an older one and not the new Snap2, power readings are flakey until it warms up. This takes about 7-10 minutes and I notice a significant jump in power…maybe 30 watts or so. I currently have it set up inside (Texas) so the temps are cooler (75F) and it does warm with use. Once warm it matches reasonably well with my P1 pedals. I exclusively use Zwift and use smoothing so Zwift does not pick up peaks but Strava does. Since the last Zwift update, I am loathe to use the spindown function as I think it drives the power numbers a bit too low as compared to the P1s.
Ray, in the comparison table headings you’re showing the Drivo twice instead of the Snap
^Ignore me, I’m stupid.
Thanks for the writeup Ray – mine is scheduled for delivery from CT on Wednesday! One minor suggestion I’m guessing you’ve already considered – for the comparison tool it would be nice to have some sense of dimensions/mass – I get this is difficult for trainers given the shapes. I’ll be moving mine around regularly, so one of the (many) reasons I’m excited about the Direto is my sense it is lighter and “folds up” smaller than the Kickr. We shall see soon!
Mind sharing when you placed your order? Right now, it says estimated availability in early September.
Placed mine early with the plan to cancel if needed/desired – looks like 9 August from my email.
Great, thanks!
I placed an order yesterday through CT, hoping to get it before too long.
RE: K Dub.
I was looking for the dimensions too & DC was my first thought, then the manufacturer then google, finally i have some ‘possibly’ correct dimensions from a web retailer – but they could be hooey….
Size (L x W x H): 840 x 650 x 550 mm
Now which dimension refers to which – you’ll have to guess :)
link to elite-it.com
Per Clever Training’s site:
Space occ. when unfolded (lxd):840 x 650 mm (33.07 x 25.59″)
Space occupied when folded(lxdxh):300 x 650 x 550 mm (11.81″ x 25.59″ x 21.65″)
Since the width is what shrinks when folded, that means the width with legs folded out for stability should be the 33.07″ dimension.
I reckon a DIreto with a bluetooth cadence sensor (Damn you Vector 2!!!) is looking like the way for me!
I’d generally do any sprints less than 30s in slope mode anyway as the targets are nearly always wrong when based on % of FTP so the extra 1-2s lag over the likes of a KICKR shouldn’t be an issue.
Hopefully order next month, hopefully the backlog at CT won’t be too long by then :-)
Wahoo RPM
That’s the one I’d go for. At £30 you can’t go wrong!
Even budgeting for that and a riser block it still comes in about £150 less than a KICKR which is a hard saving to ignore.
Looks like the Direto and the Drivo both do pedal analysis, only the Directo is 12 points and requires an app to be bought and 24 point and comes with the Drivo. link to drivo.cc
Wonder how that compares with pioneer’s pedal analysis.
Both do left/right (estimated).
The 12 vs 24 points is the difference in the OTS between the two units. (The higher end unit samples torque twice as often)
Hey Ray,
Does the Direto require a block for the front wheel?
Doesn’t look like you can adjust the height of where the rear attachment is so be pretty hard to make it not use a block. Its compatible with both road and mountain bikes so the size of the wheels it has to support are different plus a 23mm wide tire take less space then 32mm so that could raise or lower the front
Will the Drivo be able to get dual left an right power measurement through a firmware update or is it hardware related? I have the Drivo already and kind of wish I would have waited for this….
Looks to already be supported:
link to drivo.cc
Is there sufficient clearance for mid-cage or long-cage rear derailleurs?
I just put Shimano’s new RD-R8000-GS rear derailleur and 11-34T cassette on my hill climbing bike.
No Problems with RD6800GS here.
Won’t clear Sram Eagle on my Trek Hardtail :-(
Impressed, and think that I will upgrade from my Vortex. Ready to order, but the the Bkool Smart Air suddenly appears in newsletters from vendors – link to bkool.com
Any impressions on that one? It’s more expensive, but seems very impressive in power and lack of noise.
Yup, I’ve got meetings already set for next week. They didn’t have a unit at Eurobike, but will have one for Interbike. It’s interesting for sure, but we’ve only seen renders, which I suspect means it’s going to be on a further timeable than other trainers this summer.
Oh wow…that looks nice. And quiet!! Looking for a quiet trainer but do not want to pay for a Neo…hope the price for this one is in the Direto range.
One feature I learned about on the Kickr that is pretty dang cool is that it will sync with your power meter (for me a Stages left only) and adjust the resistance based on what the Stages is reporting (versus the internal strain gauge). To me it means having a more synced up experience between road and trainer (I think).
Will the new Elite trainer do something similar? I didn’t see it specifically mentioned in the (always overhwelming) review.
Not natively, though many apps are adding that feature in – such as TrainerRoad.
To be honest, given how near perfectly close these are, I’m not seeing much of a reason to have it though here.
Is that really trainer dependent? Couldn’t software see the “real” power meter is reading 200 watts while the trainer is set for 215 and know the trainer should be set higher if you really want 215 watts? It could learn the offset over time (its probably not just adding a percent or a constant number)
I do the same in Zwift. Directo reports about 10% lower. Who knows if that’s drivetrain lose, left-leg stronger or Stages being off. But I’m with you, I want to have the same metrics as I do on the road
Hi price at bike24.de €799.- i saw today. I bought my Flux there and think about changing it.
Just got the Direto…finally calibrated it and got 6393 as a calibration number. Is that in the ballpark? Do the lights continue to blink even after you connect and see data on your computer program (Perfpro)?
I was in that 6,000 range too (64xxsomething). Yes the lights continue to blink, though I don’t look down at them all that much once I got going.
@STEVE
Just got the Direto and calibrated at 6440 in PerfPro BUT my speed is showing above 100km/h …?
I also find the derailleur cage to close to the unit while on the 28 sprocket.
My lights continue to blink on PerfPro.
That’s what I got too, but I have no idea if that’s good. The Direto seems a bit higher than my 4iiii PM, but I don’t have a proper data analysis tool like Ray’s
I am very interested in the real world accuracy of this.
I have an (otherwise much loved) Kickr (1) which reads 8% above my P2M power meter. Although they advertised it as being +/- 2% accurate, Wahoo fitness tell me that “8% is not outside the normal range”.
I would like to know how Elite would respond if I bought a Direto and it was this inaccurate. Is my expectation that expensive trainers should match their advertised specifications unreasonable?
Others that have tested Direto accuracy are reporting the same as I. So I’m pretty sure all of us are real-world.
At the same time, I’d be curious who at Wahoo says +/- 8% is normal? +/- 4%, probably possible given measurement in two locations. Also – have you tried using the far newer 2017 KICKR firmware update that applies to the KICKR1 to change how power is measured?
I had the same experience at Wahoo. They brushed me off when I emailed to inquire why my Kickr V1 is 10% higher than my P1 pedals. Note, the P1s measure in line with a PT hub I have so the Kickr is odd man out.
I may get a nice Computrainer off Ebay for $300 or so and sell the Kickr. DC, do you think 300 reasonable for a GOOD used CT??
DC,
You might want to do a quick comment regarding what you think are acceptable power measurement variations i.e. 2.5%, 5%, XX% etc. Mine at 15-16 watts variation @ 200 watts is quite frustrating. BTW my Kickr has latest firmware, carefully done zero offset etc.
I bought mine direct from Wahoo in Sept 2015 so it should be manufactured after the spate of QC issues they had with the V1s circa 2014.
Edit should be @ 180 watts
In general my math is usually:
Crank/spider/pedal to spider/pedal/crank region power meter: +/- 4% total swing (as it’s +/- 2% for each unit typically). I might alot another 1% at best for loses in a crank arm from say the pedal to the spider.
Downwards from crank/pedal to drive train to trainer, hub, wheel: Reduce by 1-3% for drivetrain inefficiencies (usually 3-10w depending on how clean/dirty).
The PowerTap G3 hub is always a bit of an international man of mystery in these equations as many people in the industry believe it’s purposefully skewed slightly higher to have originally matched the SRM units years ago so that test folks would say it was fine (regardless of whether or not that true). So take that tidbit for what its worth.
Thats not happy news since my Kickr measures 9-10% higher (not lower) than the P1s. It would be a unique bike that gains power through the drive train as opposed to losing it.
A friend has a Computrainer. I’m going to simultaneously measure P1 pedals and a PT hub against the CT. That should tell the tale.
After that, I’m afraid I’ll be call Wahoo again.
Just to clarify though – with your KICKR are you using the newer 2017 firmware on it (even if an old KICKR)? And did you do an advanced spindown as well?
Newest firmware and multiple calibrations. Did the advanced immediately after a 50 minute Sufferfest ride so it was well warmed up.
Normal calibrations since all show a near identical offset so the problem does not seem to be a “user error”.
I’m using the latest firmware and have performed an advanced spindown calibration. I felt I was “managed” by wahoo rather than helped…
Not sure if I can sell my kickr being so inaccurate… alternatively perhaps it’s more valuable to someone who wants an 8% boost on Zwift
Great review. Here in Europe the Flux can be found at ~650€ vs the Direto generally above 800€. Still not sure, but I might choose the cheaper one.
I have bought mine for €629, I live in Holland. You can find the for €699 in Europe with ease.
I was talking about the Direto pricing
Now THAT is interesting. I’ll go back scouting the web.
The price evens out when you factor in shipping the Flux back (speaking from experience)
I have a Diverge Comp 2016 with SCS or when a use my summer Wheels a diffrent hanger that is NON SCS. I belive my hub is 135×12 (DT 350 hub with centerlock)
Can this trainer work with this? You said 142×12 in but do that mean 135×12 will work aswell?
Is this a 135mm QR system? I have a Direto at home and a 135mm QR bike and that one fits just fine.
It is a TA so not QR.
Hi,
Would you mind testing our 135x12mm new adapters?
We would just need your address. Please write me in private
Stupid question: I have a pedal-based powermeter on my bike. With this kind of trainer…would i switch off the pm and rather use the integrated one? If so, whats the advantage?
Generally speaking if people have a power meter on their bike, they’ll record from that same unit inside and outside, so the numbers are totally consistent. Yet at the same time, if you’re only seeing the numbers differ by a couple watts – I wouldn’t fret it.
It’s more of a concern if you’re seeing a 10-20w+ offset (which then brings up other concerns).
I use the App to record the trainer (Snap) and the head unit (Fenix 3) to record my P1s. Dump both into Strava and compare the power readings. In Strava you can “hide” an exercise to not double count. You may have to edit one of the files (Fit File Tools) with a time change as Strava will not double load if a second exercise comes across as a double.
Hi Ray, where did the direct comparison between the Direto and the Flux mentioned in your video go? Can’t find it on Youtube.
It’s sitting on my Mac still to edit. :(
Any idea when you will get to it? ;)
I have been testing my Direto over two different rides now and it seems that I have a +6 % difference (excel comparison on two different files for each ride) on the work intervals between my Stages PM and the Direto Trainer (Direto measuring higher). Given the accuracy that is stated by the company and this review, I am starting to doubt my L/R balance. I am planning to check the calibration figure on the Direto, just to make sure the tension on the belt is OK. Then I will try to verify the L/R balance (estimation) given by My E-Training app and try to match this to my Stages PM. Does anybody have experience with the app and the L/R balance estimation? I figure that if I have 47-53% L/R balance this can explain the difference. This makes it a little (OK very) hard to do ERG intervals having to push 20W extra on an FTP interval.
Update
Looks like I have a slight different offset number after calibration than the one mentioned on the bottom of the trainer 6495 vs 6497 from factory. The manual states I should tension the belt slightly and re-calibrate and check the value again. This process should be iterated until the same value is achieved. I have asked Elite if they see an issue with the drop in the the value. As I do not know what that number stands for I do not know if it is a significant difference in offset value.
As for the L/R balance, the free trial provided by Elite does not include the pedal analysis tool. I should fork out another 10 EUR just to check out the functionality. Shame, they could have at least provided a trial version for a few weeks.
My Drivo was reading about 20W too high out of the box. I takes about 1h of warmup before calibration (yes the drivo also needs a calibration) to get reasonable close to my power2max. But still, each ride there is about a 20minute warmup until the power reading stabilize. Interestingly, my calibration number is also lower after I did my own calibration. However, the Drivo is still reading about 10W higher which is odd because usually the power2max should read higher being a crank based powermeter. Adding up all these numbers would mean my power2max is reading about 15 to 20 less, which seems also a bit strange. Maybe, the are adding a factor for die Drivo power to take drivetrain losses into account?
But I also checked Ray’s power comparison and for example the 30/30 intervalls the mean-max curve is withing 2-3 watts however, the during the Zwift workout the bepro pedals are reporting suddenly 10 watts less. I wouldn’t call this “crazy close”.
Just out of curiosity – how do you know the P2M unit is correct?
Keep in mind that 10w is within +/- 2% depending on how you stack it and at which wattages.
Christian, are you just using the Elite app from your phone, My calibration seems so fast. It prompts me to start pedaling, then about 5-6 seconds later it prompts me to speed up, then it tells me to stop pedaling, then a few seconds later its done. Is that all there is to it
I don’t have the app or stages but I’ve got Vector pedals which give true L/R balance and I know for me I can range anything from 47/53 to 53/47 so coupled with the actual accuracy of the power measurement a left only could have me out by +/- 10%. I don’t know how useful the Direto app will be at genuinely giving L/R balance as it has no way to distinguish between pulling up on one pedal v pushing down on the other.
Even though my power meter gives me a true balance, I never do anything with it, it’s just the fact it gives you a total power number that I find handy given that my balance does drift.
Hi!
Can I ask you, what value (diameter) you used in the Elite-App to calibrate?
And what diameter do you use on the controlling device (in my case Garmin 520)?
I set it to 2070 on the Garmin and got an average speed of 37 today (with 208 Watts) on my Ride…
Thanks!
Regards
From the manual:
“Should the software/app/device employ the Speed & Cadence protocol to detect speed, you must set a wheel circumference value that equals the actual wheel divided by 12.1. For instance, if wheel circumference is 2095mm, the value to input as circumference is 2095/12.1 = 173mm.”
Given the fact that you aren’t actually putting a wheel on it, it’s a bit weird (but not Elite’s fault here), so just go with 173mm to make your math life easier.
(Don’t feel silly, I also missed it in the manual back in July when I asked Elite the same thing.)
Thanks!
I already read that part… What is a bit confusing, if i put in this value in the Elite App, it automaticaly gives me the value divided by 12.1, so if I enter 2097 (on the app) and press OK, i get a value of 172.
I got an answer on the Elite-Direto-Facebook group, they say that on the app i should simply set 2096 and the app will calculate this value (172)…
If I set a value of 173 on the Garmin, i get a speed around 3 km/h :D
Interesting.
Btw – as a quick aside, if you’re using the controlling device of an Edge 520 – be sure you’re pairing as an FE-C unit, and not the speed/cadence/power sensor variants.
Errrr if I us 173 I only drive 3,1 km/h at 200W. I have multiplied it by 10 and use 1730mm now and the numbers are accurate 31km/h at 200W (72kg).
On the Elite app that is
A little confused here…actually very confused :)
So, on my EDGE 820 when I search for new sensors I see indoor trainer and speed/cadence sensors. Adding both, correct? For speed/cadence enter wheel size 173, in indoor trainer circumference default at 2096, leave it as it is?
Also, when tried to calibrate using EDGE target speed blank, current speed zero… pedal for a few seconds, get message speed is sufficient, calibration complete and no return value…
Am I missing something?
George/DC Rainmaker, I just got my trainer and am confused by literally the exact same thing. What is the right answer?
hi Ray,
do you think Tacx will drop the price of it’s flux (anytime soon) due to the release of the Direto?!
brgds,
Dennis
PS: keep up the good work
I wouldn’t expect so anytime soon. At this point it’s simply supply and demand. Until there’s enough supply of Direto’s, you’re unlikely to see Tacx shift prices.
“In fact, the KICKR 2 and KICKR 3 showed that ditching a power meter could improve accuracy since it was one less component to break during shipping (which is what was occurring for KICKR 1 folks)”
What do KICKR 2&3s have if they don’t have a power meter?
Separately, I think you mean “rein in” vice “reign in”
@GPSIF
The later Kickr models – and the original Kickr since the beginning of this year after a firmware update – use a power calculation based on modelling the brake itself rather than using the strain gauge based power-meter (electrical characteristics, e.g. you know the power you’re putting into the electromagnets, the physical properties of the damping disc or what-have-you and where it is, it’s speed and so an). It’s a general technique that’s been used for donkeys years – Wahoo showed a number of benefits using it on the Kickr 1 over the power-meter, so they must be doing the sums pretty decently :)
Can these trainer companies make the electrical cords longer? Seems like 2m or less is about standard
There are safety regulations that can limit things
I think this is probably the shortest trainer cable I’m aware of. :(
I wish it had some sort of “hook” for the cord/plug when you’re not using it. :) Might cobble something together myself . . .
If you could get a Drivo on sale for $100 more than the Direto, would the Direto still be your best value choice?
It’d say that’s a pretty good deal. The Drivo has better road-like feel, plus more power behind it and higher accuracy.
Thanks for the review! I am going back and forth between a direct drive trainer or a stand alone spin bike; i am a bigger rider and can push above 2k watts, so i need something that stays rock solid to do my intervals against. Which of the direct drives, at any cost, are the best at being rock solid for an erratic, fool-hardy out of the saddle sprinter?
I haven’t heard of anyone having sprint issues with either the KICKR or Drivo, or Tacx Neo for that matter.
Hi,
is the Direto able to support 135x10mm axis ?
As the interhal hub provides enough diameter for 142x12mm I would assume so.
But are there any adaptors available ?
No, it supports 135×5 but not 135×10. In talking to Elite about it this morning they are going to work on a solution to see that at some new units going out can include support for it, and then figure out a retrofit solution for existing units (that would likely require some sort of service, but still TBD).
Some hubs allow a very easy conversion of the axle. Sometimes as simple as switching the endcaps without tools. Worth a check.
Refurbed 2016 kickr for 999 or direto for 809 (after 10% due to DCR)??????
@marklemcd – that’s something I’m wrestling with too, or even wait for REI 20% off a 2017 kickr (or TP Black Friday 20% off).
Now:
2016 Kickr $999
Direto $899 – 10% = $809
If you wait a couple of months:
2017 Kickr $1199 – 20% = $980
Direto $899 – 20% = $720
tough call.
I’m unsure what practical benefits you’d be getting extra for the additional $ 200-250 beyond more grunt on very steep climb simulations (which may, of course, be important for you).
I thought my 10-sd shimano cassette was installed fine, but I was putting the bike on today and realized there was some play. I tightened it down and it still had play. When the shop installed it they took it off a wheel as is…which has a spacer toward the hub. The instructions show two spacers if a 9-10 speed cassette. So I guess I need another spacer by the hub? Spacing between the chain rings is fine.
Hello All,
Looking for feedback and suggestions on the proper spacer thickness for a Tiagra Shimano 10-speed cassette on the 11 speed trainer hub.
I just received my elite direto over the weekend and placed both of the spacers supplied with Elite’s new trainer on the trainers hub for the same cassette on my bike’s rear wheel.
link to chainreactioncycles.com
My bike shifts perfectly when using this cassette on my my rear wheel out on the road. When I swap my trainer to it’s identical dedicated cassette and shift into my largest cog in the rear the bike chain comes off. To me this indicates the spacers are too much. There is also alot of slippage in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hardest gears in the rear wheel. I can get away with ERG trainer sessions and using a non-slip cog ,but it’s frustrating if I want to do anything with Zwift outside of workout mode.
I’m not sure the thickness of the spacers in Elite’s trainer box ,but I was wondering if other people had to purchase different spacers to make both road riding and trainer riding compatible without needing to always adjust your rear derailleur!
Send help and keep on riding!
I had to use two spacers for 10-speed 105 cassette, so seems there is some variation
Hey Ray
Thanks again for a great review!
I am really close to pulling the trigger on this one. But I am wondering – and this applies to turbos in general – how important “accuracy” really is. Most of us at this price point probably already have expensive power meters and will be using the power match feature. So as long as these are accurate (or at least consistent) when we are below target wattage on Zwift or TR the resistance should get harder and vice versa when we are above target wattage. Here I have seen massive variability across the smart trainers I have tried. A cheapy cheap Elite Qubo Smart B+ was really good and responsive (but not too responsive, i.e., you don’t rocket up to 600w from 150w in under a second) while the Snap I am about to return was a disaster.
I get what you say about the cheapy, in terms of wattage if you have a PM.
For me, I have a left side only 4iiii, so I always wonder what my true power is. I have a Vortex Smart and the reason I am considering jumping up to the Direto is purely that I want a wheel off trainer because I don’t feel all that steady when I really amp up the effort. When I got the 4iiii and Vortex last year I was pretty new and my power output wasn’t that great. A year of good training has changed that, and I want to feel rock solid when I push, not like I could go flying forward at any second.
Hi RichieMc,
personally I see dependable high accuracy in trainer as being valuable because
1) you can use a second bike without a power meter (and I have a few of those…) sitting permanently on the trainer
2) you can use the trainers power to compare with what you get from your bikes power meter so you will more easily notice your bikes (or trainers) power meter losing accuracy…
having said that its worthwhile always using the same power meter for consistency.
I’ve got the 4iiii PM and really like it. The Direto is showing a few watts higher but I don’t which to believe
Hey Ray, thanks for the excellent reviews. I´m thinking of upgrading from my Kickr Snap to a Direct Drive trainer. Would the Direto an upgrade in terms of accuracy and road feel or should I just bite the bullet and get the real Kickr?
Having spent time on a Snap tonight and being increasingly frustrated with getting it accurate, I’d say it’s a definite upgrade just there alone. Let alone all the other reasons.
I know, I didn’t want to complain about having to do a spin down every Ride because you know., 1st world problems
Actually, doing a single spin-down I’d been happy with. Half a dozens spin-down later and the numbers still aren’t accurate.
After being undecided between the Snap or spend a little extra on a Direto, I thinks this settles it :) My turbo bike is all year round on the turbo, and is used on average 2 times/week, having to spin down every time (and not even be sure if the numbers were accurate) seems to be a way to stressful.
I went the Direto route because I wanted the direct drive trainer so that I can cut down on prep time. Anything to make riding less work/stress, the better (save the work for riding).
I bumped into this review oddly just after I completed a joyful session with my Direto and Zwift…probbly not worth a cent what I’m saying but now it’s dinner and red wine :)
While elite continue to implement their resistance at 5% gradient like levels of inertia I just have no interest in them.
People querying ‘road feel’ are on to the right track. The neo can simulate almost road levels of inertia and hence I can hold my tight hip angle tt and tri position like on the road.
Lazily engineered efforts from elite and most others have my legs begging for mercy at the same wattage.
Erg mode is particularly bad for this. Not an issue on a road bike but I can’t understand why only tax have made a serious stab at this. Discounting crazy stuff like the lynx.
People obsessed with Erg mode due to concern over hitting wattage intervals precisely are missing the wood for the trees IMHO.
Can you explain this. I don’t follow what you mean by implementing resistance at 5% gradient
Yeah, I’m confused as well – what are you talking about?
Traditionally elite have always had abysmal inertia to their trainers. 300w say on the flat with a tailwind feels dramatically different to 300w into a headwind on a climb. Their trainers have always felt like the latter. Stevenage irwin the UK tter did a lot of work on this mapping kinetic energy VS wattage and gave feedback to the tacx folk who I believe then implemented ‘tri’ mode on slope on the neo.
Meanwhile elite make trainers than an average cyclist has to use in the inner chain ring. The higher inertial load makes cycling at a tight hip angle much much easier. Hence why I can do hours on my neo or Kurt kinetic with big wheel but after 10mins on an elite I have to sit up at the same wattage.
So you’re basically saying something about the trainer makes it so you can’t hold aero?
And what Elite trainer specifically have you tried?
If you compare a cheap $200-$300 Tacx trainer to a cheap $200-300 Elite trainer, yes, the road feel isn’t as awesome at all. But on both brands once you clear $899 and above, they are totally different beasts.
So the Direto should be very different from the Turbo Muin?
The Turbo Muin has a rather high resistance where I always ride in the small ring.
Depending on which Turbo Muin you have (some are electronically controlled, others aren’t). But yes, it’ll be different. With an electronically controlled trainer you set the wattage based on apps/devices, versus a fluid/mag trainer, it’s based on a set power curve.
Ah, thanks!
Still considering whether to do an upgrade since I ordered the Assioma… and hope I can sell the Turbo Muin (not smart, serial 30000+, with a Misuro+). Any idea what a realistic price would be? I paid around 450e, that of course doesn’t set the market value. Around 250e or maybe 300?
Are you sure that MEASURES/ESTIMATES LEFT/RIGHT POWER not support by Direto?
Fixed!
Does anyone, other than me, have problems contacting CleverTraining UK via email? I’ve been trying to cancel my direto order for two days now but there have been no feedback yet. I hope I didn’t end up in a spam box.
The moment I finished writing this post they replied to my request. So case closed.
How is Elite’s customer service? I have found Wahoo’s service to be pretty stellar. What are your thoughts?
I just purchased an Elite Direto smart trainer. I seem to remember reading detailed instructions on how to set it up to use with Zwift with a large television monitor instead of a laptop. I recall using a dongle was necessary. Unfortunately, I can’t find the article. Does anyone remember this article? I believe it was on this website or possibly the Zwift website. Thank you.
To clarify, the set up was with the Tacx Neo.
To clarify, you will be using a laptop, and you want to know how to output to a TV screen? If you’re laptop has an HDMI port you can go that route (there may be a dongle involved). If no HDMI port, there is a dongle that makes the conversion for you.
I used my iPhone and output (screen mirror) to my TV with an Apple Lightning to AV Adapter (Shane Miller has video(s) about this on Youtube).
This might be what you’re looking for: link to dcrainmaker.com
Great review again! What I’m curious about, and it’s maybe more a more common question about direct drive trainers, is how these perform at lower speeds. It states that it can produce 1400W at 40 kmh, but what are these numbers at lets say 10-15 kmh? The same holds for the maximum incline, as this is just a conversion of the maximum wattage at a certain speed. In other words, is there some sort of working range figure (wattage versus speed) for the direto?
I’m also interested in this. Could someone owning a direto give us the maximum wattage the trainer can deliver at, for example, 8km/h, 10km/h, 12km/h, 15km/h and 20km/h? I would really appreciate it cause that data can help people igure out the maximum slope the trainer can simulate for their particular weight. Thanks.
If it helps I asked Elite about max wattage at 30km/h which basically equates to 50rpm in 52/11 gearing. My thought process being that’s close to the lowest cadence I’m likely to be able to sustain on a climb. At that speed they state 990w, so realistically you should be able to mimic any climb you’ll be capable of doing.
Not sure if that fully answers your question but hopefully it helps :-)
It’s from the Elite forum:
link to forum.elite-it.com
Anyway the curve it’s only an idea of the response of the trainer because it depend directly from the calibration of it self.
Thanks Andrea, that is exactly what I was looking for. From the curve and using interpolation one can approximate the power for any desired speed and then, using any bike calculator and the weight of bike+cyclist, the maximum slope the trainer can simulate.
Lee Sutton, I agree with what you say but my question concerned the simulation of climbs at the true speed real climbing takes place. Using high gearing (and therefore high speed) almost any trainer is valid (at least for my poor physical capacity) to simulate climbs. Thanks to both.
If fact, observing the curve for the elite drivo, one can see that i can deliver 460w at 10km/h whereas at that speed direto can deliver only 197w. The difference between them is huge at those low speeds.
This one is from the Drivo……..it’s a beast!
I’m also search at this for the same reason, but for the moment I don’t found anything can reach the maximum for the Direto.
Yes, but it cost 400/500 Euro more!
I’m missing something. I have an iphone 6. I will use the firewire port for the Ant+ dongle. How can I hard wire to a television?
Andrea,
from
link to bikecalculator.com
and a total weight (bike+cyclist) of 80kg, climbing at 10km/h a 8% slope requires 200w (more or less the 196w Elite Direto can deliver). Therefore, for me at 10 km/h Direto can only simulate 8%.
As another example, at 12km/h it delivers (using linear interpolation) 274w, which again for 80kg results in a simulation of 9%.
So it seems the simulation of 14% is either for very light riders or for very powerful riders who can climb very fast. In fact, in order to simulate a slope of 11% I would need to be able to climb at 19 km/h (536w) which, of course, is totally imposible.
Yes it is correct……but it’s for this reason that there are premium trainer ;-)
Anyway i found that for ERG mode it’s not an issue at all, you have plenty of power to fight against and in simulator mode I never found nothing near 14% of slope.
Look…..if you want to climb some 14% slope you have to train in ERG mode before :-)
or spend almost 1100/1200 euro against 700/800 for the Direto.
I went a step further with the Direto power curve data and plotted (using the bike calc data) the max gradient that can be simulated as a function of power for me (155 lbs/18 pound bike (70.5kg/8.2kg)
This is great info! To make an even better comparison, does anyone have this same data for Tacx Flux? I don’t really understand why this is not part of any review out there, as the maximum wattage as a sole number is not that informative.
yes, I think so… please Ray can you help us asking to tacx the same information?
What do you think to implement this kind of information/test in your review?
Thank you.
It’s something I can try and get from different companies.
Testing it personally would be tricky, since it’s not always super clear when you hit that envelope. Meaning, it’d be difficult to know whether the trainer is faking the higher grade, since most people wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between 8% and 10% while indoors without context (changing between 8% and 10% sure, but not if it’s the whole lobster slowly boiling in a pot thing).
Yes of course, in my mind you can ask to the companies their data and at the least you can do a reverse engineering with a separated power meter, to confirm their data, for example from 8km/h to 14km/h with step of two km/h, but really it’s only an idea.
What it’s important for me is that I can see the characteristic of a trainer at very low speed.
It’s a kind of data very useful to see the capacity to simulate a real climb.
I would agree it’s a very important piece of information for those looking at low speed efforts (such as climbing sims) – it’s certainly what guided my last choice of trainer as that scenario was one of the main reasons I got a smart trainer. Tacx used to have a couple of brake characterisation graphs like the Elite ones up on the product pages, certainly for the Genius and believe one other at least – can’t see them now on the new style site alas – might be worth asking if they still have them…
Edit.
There is a small amount of stuff in the trainer comparison document here
link to wwwstatic3.tacx.nl
..but that appears to be only for the manual resistance trainers.
Hmm, this is new information to me. I may need to cancel my order now as being 100Kg+ it’s just not going to work too well for me on the climbs. Anybody any advice? (apart from drop 20Kg :D )
I just purchased Direto trainer and have a small problem with initial setup. In My E-Training app (Android version) there is no Trainer sensor calibration option available. Should be in Advanced Configuration manu. Any help? How can I performe calibration?
There is an option called Powewr smoothing but cannot be entered.
I have iOS, but I recall a discussion about calibration on the Facebook site. You can try that…
Same for me, no calibration option in the Elite app and it doesn’t appear TrainerRoad supports calibration for the Direto either.
Ok, figured it out. You have to unpair your power meter before it will let you calibrate the trainer.
This is my first time with a smart trainer and I’ve come across some oddities using Zwift. A few days ago, I was unable to calibrate the trainer because the Elite App wasn’t working. I was on the Richmond course and every little change in elevation (changes you couldn’t even visually see) created a very noticeable “wall” in power. The main Richmond climb was a bear, as it probably should be at over 10%. Now, calibration complete, I’m on the London route and on a 5% grade I can pedal up in the 52 big ring several cogs down at 90 rpm with power around 175 watts or so. No possible way I could do that in real life without seriously cranking and shortly dying. I have realism at 100% and the trainer isn’t in ERG mode (made that mistake once). Seems strange?
If you calibrate properly and use Zwift the inclines should translate to expected resistance. I did the KOM on Zwift the other day and I spun in an easier gear and had to give it. My speed would drop to an expected number, then increase as it flattened out or went downhill. I did a workout in ERG mode and when I was in a big gear and the watts increas to close to 400 I couldn’t do it…which tells me it’s working, even if my body wasn’t ;-)
To those who have the new Direto and have tested it in ERG mode (trainerroad or otherwise), what has been you experience? I remember that with the more expensive Drivo there were quite a lot of complaints about Drivo overcompensating/fluctuating in ERG mode. Perhaps these have been individual setup cases or maybe this have been solved with Drivo FW upgrade.
But I would just like some comments from Direto users here. Thanks!
I second that request, regarding both Drivo and Direto’s behavior in ERG mode. This point is the final decider to chose between the two. Thanks
My first ride on the Direto using Trainer Road in Erg mode it was slow to respond and didn’t lock in the power like the Wahoo Kickr I was borrowing did. It looked a lot like Ray’s ride on Zwift. At a lower cadence it responded faster but a higher cadences from 100-110 it took a while for the trainer to bring the power back down. I was using the built in cadence meter on the Direto. Not sure if that had something to do with it. I thought I read or saw somewhere that someone said if you naturally spin at a higher cadence you will want to use the cadence meter on your bike.
Were you using Bluetooth Smart or ANT+ FE-C?
Either way, I’d reach out to TrainerRoad support and they can take a look at the log files and see what might be up. They’re pretty easy to hit up and get digging into it.
Ray,
I did contact TrainerRoad initially because I couldn’t find the calibration function for the Direto in the app. I was having issues with the Elite Android app. They told me it’s not there yet because Elite hasn’t sent them the calibration template and instructions for the spin down speed. When I mentioned the issues with Erg mode the initial thought was that the Direto connected to TrainerRoad as a power meter instead of a smart trainer. I double checked it and it was connected as a smart trainer. I did some tests with both Bluetooth Smart and ANT+ FE-C connections on two different devices. It just didn’t respond and lock in the power like the Kickr I had been borrowing did. TrainerRoad did tell me that they haven’t gotten their hands on a Direto yet to test. Considering TrainerRoad just released the new app and the Direto just hit the market I figure there may be issues on both ends and that TrainerRoad and Elite will work to get them resolved. The other issue maybe in what I’m doing. It’s hard to tell at this point. I haven’t had a whole lot of time to mess with it at this point. Considering the positive reviews that you and Shane Miller gave the Direto I am more inclined to think the issues may be on my end. I just need to spend some time messing with it.
Ray,
Here’s the workout I did. Let me know if any other files would be useful.
Based on my limited experience with a borrowed kickr snap and my power tap hub, I noticed that the incredibly flat power profile that the kickr was reporting was largely artificial: if I eased up the cadence (and hence the power, briefly), the kickr power profile in trainer road would stay almost completely flat but my power tap (monitored on my edge 520) would show the expected power fluctuations (often quite large). Can you post a screenshot of your trainerroad workout to give us a feel for the magnitude of the power fluctuations while in erg mode?
Try again.
Hi,
I use erg mode and trainerroad without any problem like this.
It seems to me like when you change the percentage in the workout and then you move it again at 100% it produce the same beaver.
To be clear, are you using a power meter and power match or just the reported power from the direto?
Spencer,
I’m using the reported power from the Direto.
I am seeing something similar using Xert workout player on a Garmin 520. Want to try myETraining before I point fingers. I do not know if it´s just because the Direto reports actual power with more resolution.
Here is an erg workout from the elite app. In short, there is more variability than you see with a kickr, but I think it is more realistic based on the subtle changes in cadence/power output throughout the interval. Interval average power was within a couple watts of the erg setting.
Spencer,
I went back and looked at the numbers from my test session and just as you experienced they were within a couple of watts of the target power for the interval. The Kickr was always a few watts off as well for an interval. I guess I got to caught up in the nice pretty straight lines that were recorded from the Kickr compared to what the Direto was spitting out. The other factor could be the smoothing rate I was using. I know I set it to 3 seconds in the TrainerRoad App but I haven’t had any luck so far setting it in the Elite app. Is it jus me or are other people having issues with the Android version? I have it downloaded on an Ipad and will try that out tonight.
The Kickr is more or less reporting the resistance setting, not the actual instantaneous power. With trainerroad it always seems to plot unsmoothed data on the large screen but it will post smoothed data on the minimized screen, at least on the PC version.
William,
Thanks for the info. I have only used TrainerRoad on an Android tablet or phone and it just showed the smoothed data on the graph when using the Kickr.
Just wanted to add a follow up to my perceived issues. I have done several more rides on my Direto with TrainerRoad and everything is working just fine. I have found in Erg mode that it responds best, especially to the recovery intervals if you ride in the small ring up front and somewhere in the middle of your rear cassette. After talking to TrainerRoad it sounds like if riding in the big ring up front the trainer reaches its minimum resistance and the only way to bring the power down to match the interval is to really slow down your cadence. Since I’ve shifted down to the little ring I have had no issues with the trainer responding to the appropriate power setting.
I’ve been using TR, ERG mode, and I’m also using small ring in the front and middle of the cassette and find that everything works well. It’s funny, I was going to try the big ring yesterday, and didn’t, and now I won’t…thanks.
I weigh 100kg and I can’t put out more than 400w at low cadence for more than a minute or two. The Direto can provide (on 52/11 gearing) over 900w at 50rpm so it has plenty of head room for any climb I could ever contemplate attempting.
Speed on an indoor trainer genuinely shouldn’t matter as really you want to train by power and duration at specific cadences.
Yes, technically when you use as certain % slope it won’t be as per the real world for anyone other than the rider they’ve modelled it on but that isn’t what power based training is about. Zwift make their own speed calculation so all the slope does in there is effectively control your cadence. So if you want to make a climb harder (i.e. lower cadence) just don’t do it in your lowest gear.
Has anyone found an app with *free* ERG based workouts, where you select from a library and it controls your trainer? I know of TrainerRoad ($), and will try it once winter settles in…but for now I’m looking for a free app that I can use indoors, for time periods where I’m typically riding outdoors (a few times per month). I went through DC’s trainer app guide, but a couple didn’t seem to pair with anything but the Kickr (such as Hurts Ergo). I’m looking for something with a searchable library, that is easy to use; I don’t even want the rides to be downloadable or anything, just simple to use and good interaction with the Direto.
If you have a Direto you should also have a subscription to Elite My E-Training included – the basic version of that has workouts and the ability to create new ones I believe. Have a butchers here
link to elite-it.com
I have the app and tried one of the 10 workouts already. I didn’t feel like it was erg mode. I’ll have to try again
Ray, the power graph in Zwift in ERG mode that you posted (link to media.dcrainmaker.com) looks REALLY choppy. Did you have it set to Instant interval vs 3 second smoothing? Were you just messing around constantly increasing/decreasing your RPMs? Or holding same RPMs? That last 10 min segment is all over the place. I’ve got a Tacx Bushido currently (considering upgrading), and its much much much smoother. Of course I HATE the spin downs on the Bushido, but that’s another story…. but cringing a little bit looking at how much variation there is in power, with this trainer, and zwift ERG mode…..
That’s actually due to the way Zwift Erg mode works. It’s not a very ‘firm’ ERG mode like many other traditional apps. Rather, it gives you ‘flex’ so that you have to work to hold the power yourself.
Did a test ride yesterday, noticed my Quarq Dzero power reading doesn’t match Direto… Not sure which one isn’t correct.
Blue – Dzero, purple – Direto.
Cadence on other hand looks almost identical
Cadence
It’s not correct, at a certain point the graph are both shifted
Beginning looks ok, then at some point graph got shifted. Not sure how to fix that, offset would move entire length and make it look even worse.
On side note old printer sound is present, but with drive train and fan noise I couldn’t hear it during the Zwift session. I’m hearing some creaking noise, but I think it sounds more like it coming from bike, not trainer
I find that the noises of the bike are accentuated while on the trainer. I get some drivetrain noises while out on the road, and on the trainer they’re a bit more present, at times. No biggie :-)
Thanks for the great review! Unfortunately I have an issue with my Direto for which I hope to get some suggestions here.
In Zwift I can’t pair the Direto as a controllable trainer over bluetooth. It does seem to pair as a classic trainer with speed sensor. The power meter and cadence sensor of the Direto work fine in Zwift and in My E-Training the controllable features are also working.
Any ideas why Zwift does not see my Direto as a controllable trainer? Do I need the ANT+ dongle for this?
The way Bluetooth Smart works it that if another app is holding the connection open, a secondary app can’t connect to it.
It sounds like perhaps another app (like My E-Training) may be running in the background and holding the connnection app. Double check you’ve killed off any apps that might have connected, and to be triple sure, I’d toggle airplane mode briefly and unplug the trainer and re-plug in.
Though, I probably should have asked – I presume you’re on iOS?
Thanks for the quick response. I am using pc and android though…
Gotchya. Yeah, Zwift doesn’t support Bluetooth devices on a PC: link to support.zwift.com
So unfortunately you’ll need the ANT+ USB stick.
Thanks Ray. I actually read this Zwift support article, but I thought this was only about connecting directly from the trainer to a PC over bluetooth (as opposed to bridging it through an android device). Still don’t really understand why Zwift doesn’t support this, but I’ll just go for the ANT+ unit.
That’s what I did too.
Also, depending on how far your PC is from the trainer you might need usb extension cable. I’m using my Home Theater PC for Zwift which is in media cabinet about 6 feet away from Direto, and signal was dropping quite often. With extension cable no more drops
I got this reply from the Zwift team. Seems it is supposed to work, except for an issue with ZLM for soms users.
“We have tested the Direto without any issues; however, there are some issues with the Android version of ZMLnot connecting all sensors that has affected some of our users which we are currently working to resolve. We have recommended using an ANT+ dongleas a workaround.
If you have one, try searching for your trainer under both Power and Controllable Trainer using that protocol, and let me know how it goes!”
Hey Ray – sorry to bother you. But shouldn’t the control work if i connect my android phone with the direto and use the mobile link app?
When i use the mobile link app i can select the direto as a powemeter or cadance meter but not as a controlable trainer – is that normal?
Cheers
Great review Ray. Just placed my order with Clever Training UK. Website says they’re expected end of September so hopefully any day now or have you got any better inside information?
That’s my understanding. I’ll check in the morning to see where they stand exactly. But I know they’re in constant contact with Elite on it (almost daily), so usually the site is pretty accurate there.
Thanks Ray, much appreciated!
Great Review and I really like the look of this trainer. Torn between this and the snap but leaning towards the DD.
Wondering how can I find out whether my disc brake equipped road bike will be mountable on the Direto?
I have a Whyte Suffolk 2015 with TRP HyRd disc brakes and want to make sure that it will be ok before ordering.
Thanks
Had no problem mounting Cannondale Synapse Disk 135 mm QR on Direto.
My Direto was delivered yesterday. Set up was indeed easy, and my first foray into cassette removal from a wheel and installation was not hard. So that was all good.
Coming from the Tacx Vortex, the difference is astounding. Way quieter. And WAAAAAY more solid and stable when you’re on the bike. This alone is worth the additional cash outlay.
I will say in my initial ride this morning I struggled with a couple things.
1) Trainer road found the trainer fine, but every time I tried to calibrate the trainer the app froze. I tried to calibrate on Elite’s app as well and the same thing happened. I tried probably 8 times to no avail. I did my workout anyway and the power number seemed plausible even without calibration. I’d like to know how to calibrate with my Elemnt if possible.
2) I connected it to my Garmin 935, and it sent speed numbers over (which I don’t care about in general) that were really strange. It said I was going 125 miles an hour. Not sure what that was about.
I’ll likely reboot my ipad and retry calibration with trainer road later, maybe that will do it.
Make sure to set your wheel circumference to 173 on your head unit. In the Elite App put in 2096 and it will recalculate it to 173 automatically.
Thanks for the suggestion and set my 935. I’ll do the same on the Direto when I get home and test it out tonight.
Not about this trainer, but the Magene Gravat. Ray, please please please get one and test. Apparently it’s ”half the cost of a kickr”, although I find that it’s about 75% of the cost of a Kickr (maybe my google shopping skills are poor today).
If this is the start of Chinese designed smart trainers bringing the price down, this could be huge. At 75% of the kickr cost, I think I’d still buy a Kickr-2017 for 20% off in a sale, but if it truly can be found for 50-60% of the cost and you give it your blessing … well, that’d be it for me.
Thanks, and keep up the good work,
Just checked my order page on CTuk and it looks like my direto is shipped. Hooray
Although the tracking doesn’t work. Maybe it’s just the label has been created.
Oh, so has mine… so much excitement!
Ray or others with some experience here. I have the left side only 4iiii precision on my bike and have now ridden on the direto twice. I love the direto. Would you trust the power numbers from the direto more than the 4iiii? Both have been offset and the direto runs ~10-15 watts higher when (255 on the 4iiiii v 265ish on the direto).
Ray’s thoughts on this are on comment #115.
I’m not sure that addresses my question really.
FWIW
I noticed a difference in reading between my Quarq Dzero and Direto as well. It really hard to say which one is less accurate unless you have more power meters to compare.
But keep in mind with 4iiii left side only you don’t get a full power, what if your right leg torque is stronger?
Ray, have you been able to get accurate speed numbers with the Wahoo Elemnt and the Direto? My speed numbers are about 12.1 times higher than they should be on my Bolt because of how Elite handles the wheel circumference parameter. I’ve emailed with Wahoo Support and they say that they do not support configuring manual wheel circumference for fitness sensors. Any advice to get accurate speed numbers until Wahoo can implement a fix?
+1 here, thanks!
I’m having the same issue with the speed readout when pairing the Direto and the Elemnt Bolt. I’ve corresponded with Wahoo support and they’ve replied saying they just got their hands on a Direto and will provide a fix in the next couple weeks
That I would share a ‘fix’ I did to my set-up to help with leveling the saddle.
For the roadies out there who would have found that when their bike is mounted there is a downward slope on the saddle, and who also found that the standard front wheel riser block (I have the elite travel block) over-compensates and ends up with a nose-too-far-up saddle, I’ve done the following…
My bike trainer is in the basement, and I’ve always had a thin carpet (think ‘hallway’ carpet) beneath a yoga mat. To get my riser block a little lower, I cut out a piece of carpet and yoga mat where the block sits. Now it’s sitting inside the cut-out, a few mm lower, and as a result the saddle position is same as when the bike is off the trainer.
Hope this helps if anyone is struggling to get things level.
Got my unit from CTuk yesterday. Only had time to take it out of the box and have a go at plugging it in. Looks like I got one of the oldschool printer variants. Is pretty loud but I suspect once drivetrain and fan noise come into the question, it will be drowned out.
I have a Computrainer and don’t want to suscribe any app; do you advise me to change CT for an elite direto or tacx flux?
Ray, I have an Elite Direto connected to a MacBook via Bluetooth. I want to calibrate the Direto using Zwift. I recall reading somewhere that I can only calibrate in Zwift using an Ant+ connection (apparently a wrench icon will appear next to the pairing button if I have an Ant+ connection. I am not seeing a wrench with my Bluetooth connection). Is this correct? If not, how do I calibrate using the Zwift app? If it is true, which specific dongle (make and model) do you suggest?
Steven, Shane Miller (GPLama) in his latest youtube video on the Direto says to calibrate it once using the Elite app on your phone and you’re good to go for a couple of months. He would know.. he’s one of the top “Zwifters” out there.
I agree with Shane. I see virtually no need on the Direto to do so every session.
(Which yes, goes against my general guidance. So yes, I still recommend doing so occasionally to validate. In both Shane and my cases, we have multiple power meters, so we’d know instantly if something was amiss.)
I have just sent my direto back to madison via the LBS.
Initial couple of rides the trainer worked fine.
10 min into the third ride at around 130w at 90 cadence (in zwift) the wattage stared to read 2000w and a knocking noise could be heard from the trainer and felt through the pedals. After jumping off the trainer whined as it spin down.
I checked the cassette and 12mm adaptor were tight. Re started and connected to zwift and the same issue. Getting up to speed the trainer started knocking and the cadence reading was 160-odd at no where near that in reality.
I could not connect to the app to perform a spin calibration either.
I’m unsure if this is an issue anyone else has had but hopefully will be resolved soon.
I just got my Direto today and set it up. After warming it up and doing a calibration and set off to do a TrainerRoad Workout. During the 10 minutes I heard a loud knocking noise from the trainer. I did a couple of intervals and each time I returned to a lower wattage the knocking came back. Very disappointing since the trainer is brand new. Any ideas or do I pack it up and take it back to the bike shop?
Might be best to post a recording if possible, either here or directly to Elite. Aside from the famed printer sounds, there shouldn’t be any other erratic sounds coming from the unit.
Ray – thanks so much for responding I am feeling a bit desperate as I haven’t heard back from Elite support yet.
I took a short video to capture the noise. I showed my Garmin and the power reading because the guys at my bike shop thought that the knocking might be happening when there’s no resistance due to some kind of uneven pedal stroke (which I wasn’t aware I had!) but that’s not the case – it happens when I am putting down constant power. Here’s the file:
link to drive.google.com
Yikes. Definitely broken. :(
Unless you stick a ping-pong ball in there (or your kids put something else inside), it sounds like some sort of manufacturing or shipping-damage related defect there.
Given I think you’re in Canada, it’d be best to simply skip dealing with Elite and go straight back to the store you got it from for a return. Certainly could reach out to Elite, but my guess is that’s where they’re direct you.
Sorry!
Thanks – I figured that wasn’t normal. I’ll box it up and take it back to the dealer. When there’s a resolution I’ll post the result.
I just wanted to follow up on the outcome. Elite customer service was very responsive and sent me a warranty replacement. It came direct from Italy to Canada so it took a week or so in transit but I can’t complain about that. So far the new unit is working as expected and I am very pleased.
Ordered via Clever Training UK. The positive review and the price differential to the Neo relative to features were the deciding factors
This will replace my Tacx Flow circa 2011. Spent sometime trying to establish if I would get an reduction in noise levels but couldn´t find anything definitive. Am assuming at worst it will be no noisier. If anyone has any experience please let me know.
Hi Ray
I preordered the Direto on CT UK, with the code to support your site! While it was in shipping the price dropped significantly on Athleteshop (516£).
I first asked CT.com if the UK site could do some kind of price guarentee, I talked with “Paul” who said to me that I should just send them the link. I mailed CT UK with the link to the better price. They didn’t mail me back until today when the unit arrived. The answer they gave me was that a price match couldn’t be done. Now I’m kinda angry and I feel cheated.
So just to you and everybody else CT service isn’t what it looks like. Just buy from another store which want to help you even after the purchase.
/Andreas
Student
Hi Andreas-
Hmm, I’m not sure why Paul said that to be honest. CT generally doesn’t do price matches. You can get the DCR discount (which is 10% off in the UK/Europe). As for Athleteshop, they won’t have them in stock for another month at that price. And that assumes their shipment is on time/etc.
To be honest, I wouldn’t expect CT Europe to chase every last online site in Europe on pricing, especially ones that don’t have stock. As you probably know, many shops in Europe take a loss on some items to up-sell other items. It works for some, and then plenty others go out of business. Ultimately, I’d prefer CT figure out their place in life without going out of business trying to sell stuff at a loss.
Still, sorry for the confusion from the rep – but generally speaking people tend to be pretty happy with the CT across the board – plus it helps support the site here. Thanks for the support though!
Cheers!
Thanks for the reply.
Yes I’m also confused. And yeah I used the support code as written earlier. But the price difference is still huge (for me).
Hopefully CT will see their own fault and help me out.
/Andreas
Andreas,
The price difference on the site is large but not quite as large now as you originally quoted with postage the price works out at £588 compared with CTUK £674.
Given that I ordered today I have also asked the question of CTUK re closing some of the difference.
Ray’s point re availability is a good one as other site is quoting end October delivery. I am assuming CTUK has stock but am yet to hear back from them.
Given the choice I would probably wait a few weeks and save my self some money with the worst case scenario being that the other site can´t meet dates and I have to reorder from CTUK.
David
I think I have to send back my direto. The resistance is not held when I go uphill the power drops suddenly from 320W to 150W and then up again. At intervals too, suddenly no resistance. Once the coach stopped at Zwift completely and muttered only. After 10sec, he went back. Driving is not going well, because he constantly down-regulates the resistance, uphill.
Mariusz
To everybody reading this with interest. CT UK would not want to price match even though they told me yesterday that they would.
So because they can’t admit their own mistake this unit is going back to CT, Athleteshop (and better price) here I come!
Another update. CT UK has contacted me again, their reasoning not to pricematch was “…it is Elite itself who have denied this request based in the legally binding agreement that we have in place”.
Then I contacted Elite, funny enough they don’t know anything about an agreement.
Seriously CT…man up. They don’t even contact me back on my mails anymore.
You are obsessed. Let it go. If the price difference means so much to you just send it back, wait another month and go for the cheaper option. Nobody cares about your price match tales or whether CT uk are “manning up” for you.
Hi Ray
Just wanted to get your opinion on the level of comments about issues with the Direto. Overall it seems to be positive but there a few comments on defective units and calibration issues etc. In your opinion (don’t worry I won’t hold you to it :-) ) would you say it’s perfectly normal levels given such a popular (i.e. high sales volume) new product?
Cheers
Lee
I think anytime in consumer electronics there’s a failure rate (usually accepted as 3-7% by time it reaches a consumer). When it comes to shipping heavier items, that can be impacted by shipping as well (as seen with the original KICKR).
In terms of issues with Direto, they seem abnormally low actually. I believe most of the ‘calibration’ issues aren’t actually Elite issues, but just 3rd party apps getting caught up more than anything.
Thanks Ray!
So Ray, in your opinion after reading some of the reviews/issues with the Hammer. The Hammer vs. Direto (where one could get a deal for each unit)?
Quick question about setup with Zwift.
I am using PC and Zwift mobile connect through my Android phone via Bluetooth. I can’t get it to show up in Zwift as a controllable trainer. Is it possible at all to connect through Bluetooth as a controllable trainer thank you
No, not possible at the moment. If you want connect it to PC you need to get ANT+ dongle
See my question earlier. Zwift team said it’s supposed to work, except for soms users that have unclear issues with ZML Bluetooth connection. Apparently we are those users!? Ant+ works fine though.
Anyone else using their Direto with TrainerRoad?
I’ve used it twice so far with the free month trial. I did the FTP test, and a 1hr15m interval workout (on ERG mode). I like the TR app, it works perfectly on my iPhone, which is just beneath my TV (watching Netflix). The cadence seems accurate, and I was able to keep to the target power without much thought. I love the ‘set it and forget it’ feeling to the platform (no shifting, pick the cadence you want and the trainer adjusts resistance). The Direto was very solid, and with earbuds in I didn’t hear anything from the trainer.
Hi – I’m just curious….all your images are of the drive side of the Direto – there are none of the non-drive side. It’s kind of like trying to find an image of the “non drive” side of a bike. In my case, I’m trying to get a sense of the clearance on the non-drive side for frames with disc brake calipers, which is the case of my bike (Spesh S-Works Tarmac disc 2016) are inboard of the dropouts.
I took a picture of my Direto with bike mounted. Not disk brake equipped, but hope it helps. For me, it looks like plenty of space in front of the axle.
@Ray
I believe you mentioned you had to fiddle a bit to get the bike “straight” on the trainer ?
It looks like if my rear pads are not horizontal, even without quick release the bike is not sitting parallel.
Maybe the foto explains what I mean.
I also need to try another bike…?!
Hmm, I don’t think I remember saying I had to fiddle much. I did have to fiddle with the super-short power cord though.
Thanks Ray, it may have been Shane then ?
Another angle
Just checked mine. I think it is “straight”, it is just off-set.
Thanks Kai,
After measuring with a level and tape I came to the conclusion the turbo is horizontal @37cm. So if yours is “off-set too, I’m good.
Began to think my frame was skewed.
Hi!
I´m a real newbie to cycling but due to certain circumstances (deteriorating vision) I probably will start training on an indoor bike. This Direto trainer seems like a very good choice.
However, it seems like all direct drive trainers (which is what I´m going to get) are only compatible with cassettes with 9-11 speed. These on the other hand seems only to be available on more expensive bikes.
Since I´m not going to use my bike much outdoor, I thought I could by a cheap bike and put the money on the trainer which is where I will see a difference.
Anyhow, do you think it is possible to use a cheaper bike that is delivered with a 7 or 8 speed cassette if I have a 9, 10 or 11 speed cassette on the trainer. I understand that I will only be able to use as many gears as the bike is supposed to have but is it possible to get the above configuration to work, considering chains and so?
Would make it much easier to find a cheap second hand bike.
Just thought that with all your experience, you might have some input on the subject.
Thanks for all the useful reviews anyhow.
Riding indoors if you have a vision problem is a good idea. Though with a dedicated riding buddy maybe you can ride outdoors safely.
You have a few things to think about if setting up your indoor experience for the first time. The bike is key, and the fit should be paramount. A steel or aluminum frame bike with 9 or 10sp cassette should be very inexpensive (like an entry level Trek or Giant from the last decade). I’m thinking around 350-500. I would get it tuned up too. To make good use of the trainer there are various apps (Zwift and TrainerRoad as examples), these cost 10-12 per month (TrainerRoad is $99/year). There is also a fan, TV, etc. The Direto is probably the most expensive of your purchases!
Thanks for the input Jason. At first I was hoping to be able to use one of my old racer bikes from around 1990 with 5sp cassette but that does not seem to be possible so I was hoping/aiming for something in a price range which is almost identical to what you mention (although converted to Swedish “kronor” ) but so far I haven had any luck (but on the other hand I haven’t been looking for so long time yet). Will keep my eyes open for the brands you mention. I ordered the Direto today so hopefully I’ll find something in a not to far future. A fan is something I haven’t thought about before but come to think of all the very “wet” spinning sessions I had, it might be well invested money.
Is there an ideal operational temperature? Would i be able to train with it in my unheated garage when the weather outside is -20c? with a heater blowing at me of course.
From Titaniumgeek.com :
A crucial point is the OPTICAL in the OTS name. As there is no strain gauge, there is no source of heat, and so in addition to not needing recalibration, the OTS has no need for temperature compensation. Something which has been independently verified by German test labs, and which Elite are very proud of:
I’ve been using my turbo in Andorra on the balcony with -15°C and surely no need for a heater just 1 thermic underwear shirt.
thanks for the reply. I guess i’m also wondering about the internals (like belts or whatever). Like a car needs to warm up from a cold engine. Since a trainer technical doesn’t warm up, will it shorten the live of the trainer running it in the cold?
I would think that Elite Support personnel may have something to say about using their smart trainers below a normal indoor temperature. Especially if you take the trainer inside from the cold, there could be potentially damaging levels of condensation on the electronic components or boards, if the air inside is humid. (It does not take that much humidity to condensate if the unit goes from cold to warm air).
While I haven’t seen anything specific to ‘normal’ temperature ranges in terms of calibration required on the Direto specifically, I’d think that -20C and any swing after that would be of concern.
Remember, it’s not so much the ‘current’ temperature that’s a problem for calibration, but rather, the change in temperature/warm-up. Further, it matters more for certain types of trainers than others (less for Direto, but again, not sure on that massive a swing).
Someday, in a DCR Cave V2 or V3, I’d like to have a temperature chamber to test some of these things. But today I lack said space.
I’m beginner cyclist. Can i really feel difference between Tacx Neo and Elite Direto. Can i feel that gap in price? Is it worst it to invest right now to more expensive trainer like Neo? Do you think during blackfriday or christmas it will be some discount on Direto?
I paid € 625 here in Spain which is half price of the Neo.
You will only notice it in your pocket ?
Hi, could you please tell where you bought it at that price? I’m searching for one in Europe and they are all out-of-stock and most of them are >750€. Thanks
I’m not sure whether it’s allowed but I bought it here :
link to kitres.com
I’m not affiliated with them just a happy customer passing on a tip.
Thank you, direto ordered :) Fortunately they also send to Portugal!.
Elite’s OTS is very much a strain gage: it is a gage* that measures torsional strain.
What Elite means to say is that their trainers use no resistive foil strain gages. That might sound like a petty distinction, but it matters: it’s roughly like saying that your hydraulic-disc-braked bike has no brake calipers. It absolutely does have brake calipers, just not the cable-actuated rim-grabbing kind.
There may be a language barrier here, so I’m inclined to cut Elite a little slack. Their occlusion-based torque sensor is less sensitive to thermal changes than foil-type strain gages, but it’s not athermic (not remotely). Optical strain gages absolutely benefit from thermal compensation, just not as much as foil gages do.
By the way, Titaniumgeek.com gets it wrong: strain gages don’t add significant heat; the problem is that temperature changes alter the strain reading from the gage unless thermal compensation is implemented. Plus, there’s a huge source of heat: the resistance to the rider’s effort! That heats up the OTS and, yes, changes its accuracy.
This is specialized information, and gear bloggers can’t be expected to have this knowledge. But IMHO, Elite’s marketing department is crossing the line from “spin” to “deception” in some of the information they’ve provided to the press.
*Engineers spell it “gage.” The rest of the word writes “gauge.” This is basically a professional shibboleth, and kind of a silly one. But in an engineering context, it’s correct to spell it “gage.”
@Edelweiss Pirate
To be fair to Elite, those were James’ words and Elite just refer to having a torque sensor. I’d also be inclined to cut some slack here as well, given the audience.. from an engineering perspective we know this torque sensor is a type of strain gauge – as is a spring – but it seems reasonably obvious what he getting at (sloppy wording, agreed).
As for spelling, this may be part geographic (or influenced from). As a Brit, in the times when my path as crossed the more engineering-oriented ones, i’ve never used or seen ‘gage’ used locally – always ‘gauge’. I’ve seen ‘gage’ in some US mechanical engineering papers but we more typically hang onto the French influenced spelling of things, alas.. I feel sorry for anyone having to learn English as a foreign language.
Thanks for your input, Tim. You’re probably right about “gage” being an affectation of American engineers. I much prefer “gauge” but I write “gage” when my audience is other US-based engineers.
I’d call bending that isn’t symmetric “asymmetric bending,” but mechanical engineers (at least in the US) prefer to say “unsymmetric bending.” My inner grammarian—a pedant without equal—cringes at welding the Proto-Germanic “un-” prefix to the Greek-rooted “symmetric” when the Greek alpha privative (“a-”) is totally a thing. But heck, archaeologists don’t talk about pottery shards; they talk about pottery sherds, which they pronounce as spelled. Well, à chacun son goût.
Regarding what is and isn’t a strain gauge, we basically agree. But it annoys me that Elite claims that they don’t need thermal compensation because they don’t use strain gauges. It’s like when Doc Brown in “Back to the Future” who said, “Where we’re going, we don’t need roads!” If he really meant that they don’t need roads paved with asphalt but they did need roads paved with concrete, then the reality isn’t nearly as cool as the claim.
‘asymmetric’ – with you all the way on that :)
The quark ‘Kwark’ vs ‘Kwoork’ battle was the one that used to drive me round the bend…
Regarding the Elite OTS, i’ve not seen any details on the sensor itself but can believe that it’s robust against temperature variations found in typical usage – not totally immune to temperature induced effects for sure, but there’s some clever optical sensors that might fit the bill (quadrature encoders I believe, i’d have to check with someone who actually knows). I think using the expansion on the leading and trailing edges of a metal encoding tree / disc to effectively ‘cancel out’ the thermal variance might have legs as well. I’m not saying Elite use either of those, but there is stuff out there that doesn’t suffer from the type of temperature induced strain offsets you get with foil sensors. I’d really would like to know more about their design but i’ve not yet dug deep enough to find the papers and submissions.
As for Doc, well reckon he meant they don’t roads due to the fact that the car could fly and go straight up and down :) Have fun and keep fighting the good fight with grammar.
I have to tell you guys, the printer noise is really annoying (to me). It is not quiet. I am replacing a Tacx Bushido with this, and am questioning if it was the right choice. Bushido is/was quieter. That’s probably my biggest gripe. Oh, and hills on zwift seem tougher on the legs now :-)
Are you wearing headphones and/or listening to music? I’ve been using the trainer a lot with TrainerRoad lately, and on ERG mode the adjustments to resistance (with some degree of buzz) are frequent, and I honestly do not hear it. I’m wearing headphones while watching Netflix, and I’m running a fan (though it isn’t particularly loud). I’ve used Zwift too, and cannot imagine riding for 1-2 hours and not listening to something…
I agree about the hills! I did the epic KOM the other day and didn’t know anything about it…so to me it kept going and going as I was expecting something shorter. I was in my easiest gear…but I’m a wimp :-)
Music drowns most of it out, but the fan alone does not. It is louder then the drivetrain, and fan on Low and Medium setting.
Zwift Races and Group Rides w/out music are easy because you are busy looking at the screen trying to stay in the draft or attack. For workout mode, music is a must!
Just bought the Direto, having sent my Tacx Neo back after numerous problems, and have to say I’m blown away by how good it is. Feel is great, and very solid. Adjustable legs make it great if floor is uneven and means you can get out the saddle with confidence. ERG and Zwift modes are awesome and response seems much quicker than other smart trainers I have had.
I have one really small weird problem, when I’m connected to my Garmin headset. I use the speed/cadence sensor option so I can record distance, and somehow it thinks I’m doing about 177mph? Any ideas what this could be? I reckon its the size of the wheel configured in my Garmin 1000, but don’t know what this should be? Its normally 2050 or 2070mm, which I think is the issue??
Any suggestions?
(Although it is making my Strava and Garmin Activities look quite good ;-)
Just set your wheel circumference @173mm
Hey Ray – sorry to bother you. But shouldn’t the control work if i connect my android phone with the direto and use the mobile link app?
When i use the mobile link app i can select the direto as a powemeter or cadance meter but not as a controlable trainer – is that normal?
Cheers
@johann: check my earlier posts.
Hi Ray,
Thanks for this review!
Is there any limitation regarding TT frame compatibility? I ride a Canyon Speedmax SLX (2016)
Cheers
Philip
I don’t believe I’ve heard of any compatibility issues as of yet, though I may have missed it somewhere. The design is pretty open, so unlikely to have much there.
If someone has heard of a compatibility issue – definitely drop a note!
Been trying to find this…but is the Direto compatible with bikes that have disc brakes?
Yes, have no compatibility issues with Synapse disc.
Question about power smoothing, how long it took you to complete it?
I started and tells me don’t stop pedaling until told so, but after few minutes I don’t get anything so I stop,
For Trainer calibration using the phone its does it in 20 seconds or less. Using PC via ANT+ it forgets me, so I use my phone.
My personal observation:
In general I think folks with apple product are having somehow easier time, as they are connecting via Bluetooth directly .
I have a PC and I dont understand why Zwift/myTraining application cant connect via Bluetooth directly but I need my phone(unless I am using ANT+ dongle for PC). For me Bluetooth is Bluetooth, you either work or don’t work.
I also can’t get the smoothing function to work. Says “timed out”.
For me it always times out and does not work.
I have the same issue with calibration. Will calibrate with iPhone 6s (bluetooth) but not with windows and ant+
Hi Ray,
Received my Direto from CT USA. 2 questions/concerns:
1. Compared with my P2M Type S, it’s about 10% high, always, and I’ve calibrated it several times to be sure. My P2M is consistent generally on RPE vs. my Ultegra Stages on another bike, so I’m thinking the Direto is generous. Any thoughts?
2. It has a rumble vibration, mild until the flywheel really gets going, not ERG mode, where the trainer vibrates the bike and the floor. As if the flywheel is out of balance. Any experience or notice of that? I’ve sent both CT and Elite e-messages to see what they suggest.
Otherwise, it’s quiet definitely, not terribly hard to set up or carry, and fun. It seems to work well with TrainerRoad and Zwift, but I’m not sure how well the resistance magnets adjust for small incline changes. Some of the free MyE-Training “real” videos show climbs, “Col de la Madeleine” for example showing some pitches above 20% for brief periods but the resistance doesn’t really change reliably over a small single digit grade. Does make noise, doesn’t feel consistent with grade. Maybe it’s because the free one’s suck. TR and Zwift felt better, but still the Swift resistance changes were usually sudden.
Appreciate your insights!
Congrats on getting the Direto. I’m very happy with mine so far.
That being said, I also have the “rumbling vibration“ at some speeds. Something in the Direto seems to be a bit out of balance. It’s not really bothering me, even gives a more realistic “road feel” ;).
It’s been pretty stable for the first 500km, but if it gets worse I’ll definitely contact Elite.
Christian how does one get in touch with Elite?
Have any of you received a response regarding vibration / rumbling? I picked up one of these trainers and it’s quite noticeable from the seat and handlebars. It’s definitely not uncomfortable, but it it’s noticible if I hit an acceleration I can feel it pick up and get faster, and when coasting you can really feel it. It’s not strong enough that I notice much when I’m doing a ride and not thinking about it….sort of like a chip seal road but not as violent….like riding a mountain bike over pea gravel.
I’m not worried about it “bothering me” necessarily but would be curious if it’s a bad bearing or out of balance flywheel, as I’d prefer to replace now if it’s not normal or could be an issue later on.
On the other hand, I did try a Wahoo Kickr direct mount at the local shop and it felt about the same…so perhaps it isn’t out of the ordinary.
Hey Matt,
My direto is 10% high, too. I compared it to a Quarq dzero. I requested it to Elite. But didn’t became an answer.
How do you solved the problem?
Hi Sebastian,
this is Mattia form elite. Could you please give me your email so I can check with the support team?
My Direto also reads 10% higher compared to a 4iii
Elite support insisted that the Direto is accurate in email to me but now there are so many posts reporting the same issue! Time for Elite to look into the issue properly.
That’s my same situation. Readings from Direto are generally higher in respect of my stages units (c’dale gen 3 and ultegra gen3) by something like 15-20 watts, and offset changes throughout the ride, be it a constant recovery ride or a Zwift ride.
Anyone got an explanation?
Same problem here with an SRM and Vector pedals, and I never have been able to get the Elite power calibration to work either.
I suspect it’s a bearing problem for the large flywheel, or else the flywheel is slightly warped. I get similar.
I have elite direto and have noticed that ERG control bia bloototh smart and my 5th generation iPhone does not work if the trainer just “wakes up” by pedaling. I have to unplug it to get ERG to sync with trainer road, and I don’t think it has worked correctly with zwift either. Anybody having this issue/ know whats up ??
Yeah I have similar problems. Sometimes the ERG Mode works and the app (TrainerRoad or Zwift) controls the trainer, sometimes not. Tested on iPad Pro, Mac (2105) and iPhone (7+).
I’d really love to know if the Direto is compatible with the Cube C68 frame (2016 version, the one Andreas Raelert rode in 2015 Hawaii Ironman). I bought this bike and tried to put it on my Elite Turbo Muin, but it didn’t fit, because the chainstays hit the casing of the trainer. Can anyone help me out here?
Here is a very basic question. If I calibrate the Direto using the Elite ios app, is it calibrated for use on other apps such as Rouvy? I ask this because Rouvy says it cannot calibrate the Direto.
I should have mentioned that calibration on ios app is with bluetooth and windows is with ant+ (as windows app currently says “bluetooth coming soon.”
So I also queried Shane Miller and he says that calibration on the ios app works with other apps.
Great review! Bought one on your recommendation and am thoroughly enjoying it so far. Got 20% off plus my points at Performance. Feeling pretty good about that!
Quick question, do you recommend a riser block for this unit? I was thinking with the wheel off it s/b level but it doesn’t feel right. I guess I can pop a level on it next time to see for sure, but was wondering if you have an opinion.
BTW, my only critique is that it’s a bit tricky getting it mounted without having to manually guide the chain. The flywheel body is a bit wide. Could just be my bike, but thought I’d mention it.
Thanks!
Sorry – shoulda searched the thread before posting a redundant question! LOL!
Hey there,
first of all thank you for the great review, was a huge help in deciding which trainer to buy!
Received the Direto yesterday and the first impression is good so far. But I’ve also encountered some problems connecting it via Bluetooth with my iOS devices (no ANT+ stick et). Although it’s connected via bluetooth, the ERG Mode does not work properly sometimes. Are there some known problems?
Example: I connect it in TrainerRoad on my iPad Pro: ERG Mode does not work (no “old printer sound” –> no adjusting of the resistance). Then I disconnected everything, started TrainerRoad on my iPhone (7+) and ERG Mode worked. I tested this several times on the devices, sometimes ERG mode worked, sometimes not.
Is there anything that could be blocking the communication between trainer app and the Direto? Some processes in the background?
Best regards.
Hi Ray,
Ordered Direto from your recc site, received discount, fast free shipping, great customer service. I love this thing! Thank you for all you do, I was a little overwhelmed with the different types of trainers until I found your site. Thank you for all you do, I check your site daily now, god stuff??
good stuff*
Quick question Ray – with all the testing you’ve done on these direct drive trainers, I’ve not seen you mention any adjustments to the rear derailleur when you go from bike to trainer. My bike is a 2017 Specialized Tarmac Di2 disc. When I mount it on the Elite Direto – it shifts beyond the largest cog (I’m using an Ultegra 11 spd 11-28T cassette on the trainer) causing the chain to come off on the inside at which point the derailleur is hard against the side of the trainer. Have you seen this? Will adjusting the low limit screw on the rear derailleur be enough? Of course, I hate messing with my rear mech beyond adjusting the indexing – I’ve read that over adjusting the rear mech can cause battery drain and/or damage to the shifting motor. Unlike you, I don’t build bikes…I rely on my LBS to do that. Any advice from your experience?
I have the same issue with Campy Record 12-25 50-34 mechanical shifting. Chain did not drop but really out of alignment.
Same issue with Novatec hubs on SRAM 11-speed cassettes: one on the wheels and one on the trainer. The trainer seems to be mounted outboard (to the outside) by about 2-3mm. I have to adjust the stops every time swap between wheels (outside riding) and the trainer (inside riding).
nick
Hello Jacques. Did you ever fix this issue. I’ve recently purchased an Elite and they are shipping me out a seperate adaptor specifically for the Specialized disc bike / frame. Interested in your progress please…
Mine broke down at 3rd use.
1st use was easy spinning and “investigate” all the features a smart trainer can offer. Duration approx 40min
2nd use was 8min FTP- Test. Duration approx 70min
3rd use while warm up after 12min: Suddenly unrealistic power data (1000+Watt at 60RPM), Sudden start of bumping noise. Slippery pedal-feeling (like pedaling on ice).
By manually manipulating the flywheel it felt like it jumped out of its fixation.
I suspect an issue of the driving belt fixation an/or flywheel bracket.
Sent back to dealer. New one is on the way.
It happend when my training plan switched from very easy spinning (60-65RMP) to fast pedal (95-100RPM). Both with ~100W. For fast pedal I shiftet to an “easy” gear to make more RPM- 2 sec later the Direto passed away.
Additional Info: Sound of my Trainer was always like as washing machine with high rotation speed
Hi Tom, I suggest you contact them at the official email address myetraining@elite-it.com, they are so kind.
I made a misunderstanding about the trainer noise, they clarify it.
The email contact could help each other and eventually solve any possible problem.
Sk
I do the same in Zwift. Directo reports about 10% lower. Who knows if that’s drivetrain lose, left-leg stronger or Stages being off. But I’m with you, I want to have the same metrics as I do on the road
One question: the Direto comes with two cassette spacers… my 5700 10 speed 105 cassette came with one… I installed both spacers from the Direto as per the instructions. Was that correct? Shifting seems a little of to be honest…
I ended up installing all 3 spacers. The two from Direto and the one from the cassette.
And you have no shifting issues?
No, works fine. The cassette seemed to not tighten when using only two spacers.
I think the important thing is to be able to tighten the cassette so there is no play. If shifting is off, turn the barrel adjuster as needed, and note down the number of runs and direction as needed (for indoor and outdoor).
I used 2 spacers with a 10 speed cassette. It tightens fine with two (not with one), but the shifting is definitely off a bit. I’ve even had the chain shift off the largest cog into the flywheel, but have never shifted into the spokes on my bike. Feels like I need 1 and 3/4 spacers.
One thing on trainer/zwift shifting is I’m far more harsh in my shifts. Getting better, but it’s a different technique.
Barry – I completely agree about harsh shifting in Zwift. This highlighted a few technical issues with my drivetrain that I’ve since resolved. This morning on Zwift I intentionally shifted more gently, with a short soft-pedal on shifts with the big ring, as well as some with the little ring. Also, on very short climbs (esses), if I’m in the big ring, I stay in it and gut it out.
Hi Everybody,
i’ve opened a ticket do Zwift that is under analysis by the second level support. My direto seems to respond very slow to terrain incline changes when i’m riding in zwift.
I’ve used the little climb in the metro station on london map and i can feel that the resistance get harder only 2 or 3 seconds after the climbs start ….and i keep to feel the 15% inclination even after 2 or 3 seconds when my avatar is on flat terrain at the end of the climb.
My ant+ dongle, with an usb cable extension is really near the direto.
any other experienced something similar?
Mine is fairly similar. I’ve always thought about it as a second or two, but never timed it. It’s not a big deal and it’s easy to adjust to. The spot you mentioned is the only area where it’s *really* noticeable.
Thx for your answer Barry. I asked that because some other guys with the direto seem to not have this issue and even Ray said “For things like responsiveness in sprints or climbs, I’ve had zero issues there with the Direto. It responds as fast as I can throw down the wattage (I top out around 1,000w).
So maybe there is something we can do to make it responsiveness better
Fabio, my experience is similar. 1-2 second delays. During 1 minute intervals, it takes 5-10 seconds to go through 80W to 300 W :-). Especially if I increase cadence at the same time. It seems the trainer tries to both compensate for the increase in power and cadence at the same time, and that takes longer compared to keeping cadence steady and increasing power.
I don’t know enough about the internals of Direto, but I would think they can fix it with firmware. Cmon Elite :-)
As far as Ray’s comments for responding as quick as he can throw down the wattage, maybe it’s all relative to other trainers in the category and what most (not us truly picky consumers) would find acceptable?
Ray, maybe you can comment on this?
This morning, before a zwift session, i tried a custom workout with trainer road. some short intervals from 50% to 100/110% of FTP. As you can see (i hope) from the picture attached the behaviour of the direto is really good. Listening to the ‘beep’ from the direto it seem that Trainer road start to ‘talk’ with the trainer about 1 second before the interval ends. After 1 second my leg start feelin’ the resistance change and after 2 or 3 second the right amount of watt was reached.
So my problem seem to be a zwift problem..not a ant+ dongle problem (i use the older garmin dongle) or a trainer problem.
As others have noted (and the same in the review), the changes I see on TrainerRoad are lightning quick. That tells you that the trainer is working properly, and any other apps having issues are just that: App implementation issues.
Now, sometimes it’s not actually an issue, but just how an app behaves.
For example, Zwift doesn’t implement ERG mode in the same manner that almost every app does. Most apps implement ERG mode in a strict sense: App tells trainer to hold 350w, and trainer holds 350w, almost spot-on.
But within Zwift workout mode, it gives you ‘play’, so it doesn’t actually hold 350w, but puts you in the ballpark. Personally, I think this is stupid, because on an ERG trainer, that’s the point. Especially since all you do to ‘tweak’ this is simply adjust cadence. So instead you’re busy chasing cadence to ‘fake’ the 350w, rather than just riding at 350w. Sigh…
Hi Ray
After calibration of the Elite Direto, I get another offset number than the one written on the bottom of the trainer.
The stated offset number is 6375.
The number I get after calibration is 6373.
I warmed up the trainer for 10 min at 100-150 W, which Elite recommends.
Do you know if it’s normal?
Mine gave me 6449 and i’ve the impression that the watt readings are a bit too high. comparing with watt from lemond revolution (with power box) it seem that i have about 20W more…
i’ve perfomed the calibration last time after a 1h ride in zwift…but event the calibration before gave me 6449
As long as you are +-4 from the factory offset number, you are good (according to Elite). Each individual unit can have a different offset number from the factory.
But how can i know what was my factory offset number?
Thanks Steve.
I just got an email from Elite as well, which also states that +- 3 or 4 points is normal, so no worries!
Fabio: You can read it underneath the trainer, it is written on a label.
Tx Steve and Prub, on my label the value is 6451..so i’m ok with a calibratin value of 6449…
it was not easy to read it with the bike mounted :)
I didn’t know there was a factory offset on the bottom of the trainer. Good to know! Just have to remember to check with the bike is off the trainer ;-)
I purchased a Direto a few weeks ago. It has been a lot of fun using it on Swift but I have found that the power readings from it are inaccurate. I checked the readings using my PowerTap P1 pedals and found that readings from the Direto were on average higher. I tried re-calibrating the pedals and the Direto. Ride after ride I observed the same difference. I borrowed a friend’s PowerTap wheel to check that my pedals were giving correct power readings and they gave the same readings as the wheel.
I contacted Elite and we have exchanged a few emails. In the last email I sent I told them that a 7.6% difference was too large and that I wanted to exchange my Direto for one that gives accurate readings. I haven’t heard back in the last two days. I hope to get a response tomorrow.
I attach a figure of my power numbers during a ride. You can see that the readings clearly differ. Enough for me to be unhappy with the Direto. You can see there that I stopped for a few minutes to re-calibrate everything and it did not solve the problem.
Anyone else with the same problem? Have you been able to solve it?
that’s what i’m worried about. I don’t have a power meter on the bike so i have to trust direto power readings.
before the direto i used for years a lemond revolution so the power was estimated with a known power curve. Since i use the direto it seem that i ride at about 10/15 Watt more but i’ve to say that lemond could only simulate flat courses while with the direto i always climb a lot (with zwift). so MAYBE it is one of the reasons i have avg power higher than before.
Have you tried TrainerRoad or another app to see if you observe the same differences?
Also, I see you have PT pedals, can you make the pedals your power meter and allow Zwift to control the trainer (that way the slope affects you, but power is from the pedals). While this isn’t the solution you’re looking for, it may be a good option…for now.
I’ve never used power before and actually I’m not concerned with accuracy, exactly. I would be concerned if one day it’s 1% off and the next day it’s 8% off…that would make comparing riding over time rather challenging. For me, a smart trainer is simply a way to rather enjoy cycling indoors when riding outside isn’t feasible. But I know others would see accuracy as more of an issue based on their needs.
Best of luck!
I have the same higher Direto power readings approx 10% higher than my 4iiii. Hopefully a firmware update to follow to resolve Elite?
The P1 is tougher to troubleshoot. But for the 4iiii – is that a dual or single leg setup?
It is a single side 4iiii setup which reads slightly higher than my Powertap G3. So the Direto is reading higher than both?
I have the dual P1. I’m confident that the readings from the pedals are accurate as readings from my friend’s PowerTap wheel were the same.
I have been using the power readings from the pedals in my last few rides on Zwift. That is not ideal given that I should be getting accurate reading from the trainer.
I’ve been in touch with Elite. Tomorrow, they will remotely access my computer to do some tweaks to the trainer. I’m not too comfortable giving remote access to my computer. They did not tell me exactly what they will do to the trainer but I thought it was worth giving them a chance to fix the problem. I’ll post an update later.
How did you get on? I’d also like to be able to scale all the power numbers down from my direto to match my P2m.
The tech remotely accessed my computer and connected to the trainer. I could see that he installed a small software that allowed him to edit what looked like the parameters of a polynomial function. I’m not an engineer but I guess that is the function that maps the readings from the power meter into watts. The tech was able to do that because I had sent an excel file that showed the power readings from my PowerTap pedals and the Elite Direto. I’m guessing that they used the readings from my pedals re-estimate the polynomial.
I attach a figure that compares wattage from the two power meters. They are now very close, especially after I re-calibrated everything around the middle of the ride. I’ll test a few more times and post and update if the power meter is a problem once again.
I did my first ride to day with my new Direto. 11% higher watt readings compared to my PoweTap P1s (dual sided). And I who moved from the Taxc Vortex to get better wattage accuracy….
I get a consistent calibration number of 6443 (haven’t checked under the trainer yet). Will also try to change the batteries on the Power Taps.
Did you do the Direto calibration routine?
My Power values differ 15% to my bepro Power pedals. I have sent elite the offset and the power values from 100 to 350 with 50 watt Steps. I am waiting for the answer….
Thanks for this information, I more or less have the same setup (PowerTap P1 dual) and disrepancy as you are describing and am in contact with Elite & have provided the workout files from TrainerRoad/Direto and PowerTap/Elemnt bolt.
Given the consistency of the power difference, I’d suggest that what I’m experiencing is the same thing son this reassuring.
My Direto is a March 2018 build and has an offset differential of 5, which was brought back to 4 under instruction by Elite support.
Thanks DC Rainmaker for all your reviews and this excellent medium for the community.
Is any of you having a strong vibration? at first I didn’t noticed it but going through intervals of higher cadance it get really annoying. Clearly feel it in the handlebars.
I noticed vibration when the unit wasn’t balanced well on the floor. Make sure it is positioned very stable (you can adjust the rubber stops on the feet if needed).
Was wondering why my chain keeps drying up using the Direto.
On closer inspection I noticed a fine dust all over the cassette and the Direto housing. I guess it’s from some belt wear? Doesn’t seem to be affecting performance in any way except the feeling of a dry chain.
Anyone else seen a fine dust coming form within the unit and going all over the cassette?
That’s weird. Any chance it’s coming from somewhere else on the bike/chain? Meaning, any rubbing going on anywhere else? Or any pics?
Hi no rubbing I can hear or see The pic is after one session after cleaning the chain.
I did notice on taking the freehub off that it wasn’t screwed tight with the Allen bolt!
For my peace of mind I will thoroughly clean chain, cassette and housing and report back.
Hopefully tightening the freehub on wilĺ be the cause.
Hi – just purchased a Direto and have been using with TrainerRoad in ERG mode. Problem is that the Direto will not lock in on the target power but rather power ranges in a wide band of 20 – 30 watts. This issue also occurs when using the Direto with the Elite myetraining app, so it is a problem with the Direto and not the controlling app.
I have contacted Elite about this but they haven’t been of much help. Any thoughts on how to correct this issue?
I should have also noted that I am using an iPhone with latest iOS version to connect with the Direto via Bluetooth.
To be clear, if the interval target is 200 watts, what do you see in TarinerRoad as the actual power throughout the interval?
On mine, the actual power I’m putting out will rarely be 200, but will fluctuate all around 200 (green if I’m close, red if I’m outside a range, but only briefly as the trainer adjusts resistance accordingly).
Jason
If target power is say 200W, the actual power reading will oscillate between around 170 and 220W. Furthermore, in ERG mode power is sensitive to cadence and if I reduce cadence for a moment, power drops even further to say 150.
Ray, a new problem after about 3 weeks with the direto. usually a ride with zwift but sometimes i use Trainer road or elite app for test or calibration.
this morning i’ve tried my custom workout in erg mode (1′ easy – 1′ hard 5 or 6 times…) and it seem that direto can’t adjust the resistance if i push well above the target wattage.
As u can see in the image, when the interval target is 130 W..if i ride at 200/210W it does not adjust the resistance. It seems that it only adjusts it when i go below the target..such as ERG mode leave me free to go high as much as i can.
i’ve tried with Trainer road, with app elite, i’ve restarted my laptop, restarted direto, changed the ant+ dongle (with and without usb cable extension), i ve done the calibration but nothing has changed.
Any suggestion?
Solved (i suppose) !
It depends on the gear i choose. With the 50x 34 or 14 the problem occuours and the direto can hold the target wattage i specify in the app. But with a 34×16/18 everything in the ERG mode works fine and if i push it at 100W more than the target ..it corrects its resistance as espected in ERG mode.
So…no big gears.
I’m very interested in this trainer. Seems almost perfect.
I’m having trouble to find info about the free hub. I have a 10 speed Campagnolo road bike and an eleven speed TT bike. So if i want to switch bikes I would need to switch the free hub.
Is this switching of free hub difficult, not sure how this is done? And doing this multiple times, how high is the risk of causing damage?
in the above command I forgot to include that the 11 speeds is Shimano.
Wattage floor??
Got a tacx flux recently and was a little surprised….but if i think about it makes perfect sense….by the wattage floor….on my wheel on vortex, i quite liked riding in the big ring and didnt really experience much of a wattage floor;
considering changing the flux for a direto (can still return the flux) but wondering if the direto has a similar wattage floor, presuming it does as its just the mechanics of it?
flux just cost me £575 and i can get a direto for £660 so have to spend a bit more and have the hassle of sending the flux back
not to worried about the difference in accuracy and have a stages powermeter anyway,
appreciate your thoughts!
@Ray.
i’m reading a lot about the ‘issue’ in ERG mode with big rings. It seems that ERG mode sucks with the big ring and it’s only usable with smaller rings. My experience, and the one from other guys i’m asking, confirms this. And it seems that the ‘issue’ occours even when the drivo.
Many say that the problem is that with smaller rings ERG mode works but the road feel get worse.
During your test with Drivo and direto were u forced to use small rings to obtain that kind of results??
With which app?
Trainer Road and Elite My app. In both cases (there is a screenshot above) when riding with big gears seems that the direto cannot ‘resist’ me. For example: target Watt: 260 for 1 minute
if i push hard i can sustain 300/320/330 watt without reaction from the direto. some target watt with small rings and the direto works fine and makes me hold the 260W
Nah, something is wrong there in your setup somewhere. I’m almost always in the big ring with ERG workouts, and with TrainerRoad specifically. Most of my interval wattages are in the 330-550w range, and no issues.
I’m not quite sure what the problem is in your case (assuming you’re not at some weird cadence like 45RPM or 150RPM), but you might want to start with TrainerRoad and validate it’s not something more innocent like signal dropouts. If you open a ticket with them, they can usually give you data back on your specific workout if there were any trainer control problems.
Hi Ray,
analyzing a zwift log i saw a 10% signal dropouts but it doesn seem this to be the problem because the trainer ‘receive’ correctly the input from the app. As u can see is not a signal dropout becuase i can keep on rideing at 100W more than the targets for minutes.
When i write to the elite support they told me it was normal and linked me a Shane Miller video where he explained ERG mode.
SO i asked Shane if with direto he was in some way forced to the small ring and this was is answer:
“Is this how ERG should work in general? No. Is it how it works on the Direto, seems so. As above, slowing the flywheel down by changing to an easier gear is sometimes required on the Direto when in ERG mode. It seems both the Direto and Flux (mid range direct drive trainers) operate like this. The flywheel speed needs to be <30km/h for ERG to respond as expected."
Hi,
You have to check the curve speed/power That elite posted in the forum and I shared also here…..at certain speed it can’ t handle the resistance (read power) needed by the workout.
If you bought a drivo or an neo you didn’t notice the problem ;-)
Hi Andrea,
i saw the power curve but is not in the curve the problem. It seems that for me and other guys, it can hold the target watts only with small rings, and its indipendent from the watts.
I.e.
– 300 Watt target with big ring: i can hold 350W or more for all the time i want
– 300Watt with small ring: i can NOT hold 350W because erg mode works fine and it push me back at 300w.
and some guys with drivo are tellin me that it is the same with theri drivo…they have to work with small rings. But for ray is not the same so i have to find whats going wrong with their trainers.
A couple things:
A) The flywheel speed aspect Shane is referring to can be true, but it’s not really a factor at 300w.
B) Zwift ERG mode should be taken with a huge grain of salt, it works different than all other ERG modes on earth. It’s why you end up ‘chasing’ power numbers, as opposed to TrainerRoad and others that apply them to you.
C) What’s your gearing combination specifically? In my TrainerRoad screenshots above with pretty high ranges, I can almost guarantee you I’d done those in the big ring (it comes from years of mental training to be in the big ring on the CompuTrainer to avoid spiral issues).
ok. Try to answer in my wonderfull english lang:
Erg mode i’ve tested was only with TR or Elite app, at the moment zwift for me is only in free ride mode.
c) i can’t remember exactly but for sure i was with the 50 rings…i think with 14 or 15 back.
What i can’t understand is why with the 34 ring it seem that the issue was solved. I’ll perform other test with TR, but i’m sure that i was in the big ring when i ‘broke’ target watts in TR,
For fun, if you want, on TrainerRoad you’ll find the exact same 30×30 test I linked above. I use TrainerRoad for orther workouts of course, but that test is interesting.
Thx Ray,
i’ve contacted Elite support and they confirm that what i found is not the correct behaviour of the direto (and drivo).
So they asked me to perform a warm-up , a calibration and a test workout with 50W incremenatl steps since i’ll reach at least 350W.
I’ll send them exported files from their app so they can analyze what’s goin on.
Since i’m not the only one with this issue i’ll let you know if they solve it.
Thx for your support
Hi Ray (and congratulations).
I don’t know if it can be helpful for someone else but following is what i found during my latest test (suggested by elite support)
i create a workout with 3′ intervals with increasing target wattages (150,200,250,300 and 350).
Gear used 50×14
The first attempt with cadence in the range of 84/86 RPM was fine, direto worked in erg mode.
So i ride a second time the same workout, with the same gear but with higher rpm and here is the strange (for me) behaviour !!
It seems that there is something like a “critical cadence” beyond which direto can NOT make me ride at target wattages.
So for example: the first interval @150W if i ride at more than 95/96 RPM was perfomed at 200W…the second @200W was perfomed at 230 and so on. to ‘broke’ the 250W target i had to push over 100rpms but even in this case i ride at 280/290 without reaction from the direto.
It seem that this critical cadence gets lower when i use a bigger gears.
I can’t explain why but this, maybe, explain why other guys with the direto have not experienced any issue with erg mode.
Maybe this is normal for elite and they’ll answer me ‘everything works well’…
Great review as always (and contributed towards my decision to purchase)
However, I have some problems setting up and would really appreciate some help.
1) The bit that the cassette sits on looks like this….. link to imgur.com is this standard???
2) I don’t think I have received all of the parts required for quick release installation (I don’t seem to have item B or G from the manual which I believe are both required????) I only have the 3 parts in the photo so am confused? or am I missing something obvious? link to imgur.com
Would really appreciate some help/clarity!
(I will be contacting elite but find other folk just as helpful)
Hi Ray,
Love your site. Try to support you and spend a lot of time here. The Direto looks like a compelling unit, especially at the current 20% off from Clever Training. But, a used Wahoo Kickr, version 1 or 2, can be had for a similar or possibly even lower price. My question is, given better road feel, etc., with the Kickr, would you go for a version 1 or 2 Kickr or a Direto?
Hi. I received my Direto today. This review helped a lot with the decision what to buy. First impression is quite well, BUT I’m struggling with the wheelsize. I’m using the elite app and set the wheelsize to 2094, also in my polar m450. While the app shows 30km/h at a specific cadence and power, the polar shows above 200km/ (or nothing) at same values. Any suggestions to solve this problem?
You should use 173mm on wheel size, I think that’s the correct size, it’s somewhere on the manual.
I know this value works, as I’ve used it in Golden Cheetah.
However, I can’t set my V800 to such a low value. Any suggestions?
Much appreciated!
Does the Direto have clearance for Disc brakes?
I need to know that too…..I have flat mount Shimano ….Can’t find one single photo of the “other” side of the unit or straight on from the rear to gauge clearance
Hey Clayton I found this on Road CC review of the Direto.
The Direto has really impressed me. It offers a smooth and realistic road feel, massive stability for your hardest interval sprints, easy compatibility with a host of training apps, and works with disc brake bikes. It’s a good pick if you want to make a serious investment into indoor training this winter but can’t stomach the £1,000+ price tags associated with the likes of the Elite Drivo, Wahoo Kickr and Tacx Neo.
Thanks Man….Good to hear, since I’ve already pulled the trigger on it….Couldn’t risk missing the 20% off …..
After my post I scrolled around a bit and found 2 photos that were helpful in posts # 312 and 315 above, I believe ….
Have you ordered one?
If not I’ll keep ya posted when I get mine…I’m on a Trek SL 6 Disc btw….
Hey Clayton
Yes I ordered one. Backordered : Expected Late December sucks but I saved a lot with the 20% off!
I am using a Giant Defy and an a Liv Avail. Will be switching out both every day. Me and the wife.
Yeah same here…long wait with not a lot of riding but gives me some time to get all my other ducks in a row and more ‘research’…. I guess….
I almost bought the Defy myself…btw
Can you also just do a stand alone training ride not hooked to zwift, trainer road, rouvy, etc. on the Direto? Did you try to sync with Training Peaks?
Could someone clarify why direto resistance is really low on hills in Zwift, i have trainer difficulty set to max, is it perhaps that zwift makes it easier comparing to real life. I’m riding zwift steep gradients in the big ring front..
there is something that does not work in your setup. I have trainer difficulty at about 80% and in watopia climbs i always have to use small ring. When the incline si about 13% or more i have to use something like 34×25 or 24×27.
Can you post your settings?
i don’t think my settings are different from default ones. I’ve only set the trainer difficulty to 80%, every other thing is on default values.
I’ve paired my direto the first time without problems, power accuracy seems to be ok.
Sometimes i do a calibration with Elite app and the resulted value is near the factory value that is written on the sticker under the direto.
Elite told me that the value must be +/- 4 from label value. in my case i have 6451 on the sticker and calibration is usually 6449 or 6448.
Like so many others, I really appreciate Ray’s work and this blog, and also CT. Maybe someone also using the Direto can help me understand one of my puzzles with it, particularly in TrainerRoad’s workouts. I’ve used TR off and on for a couple years using virtual power with the “dumb” Kinetic Road Machine — a great old workhorse for what it is. This fall after seeing DCR’s in-depth review (seconded by Shane Miller) I bought a Direto, and was impressed that CT got it here barely a week after the hurricane.
I’ve had fun zooming around Zwift on the Direto (one of the reasons I decided to give the Kinetic to my grandson and try a “smart” replacement). On TrainerRoad, my experience has been mixed. I understood that any smart trainer was going to behave and feel differently in erg mode than what I was used to on the Kinetic — that I wouldn’t have to shift, that in some circumstances I’d encounter the “death spiral”, etc — but figured that even at my advanced years I’d quickly adapt. I’ve gotten a little used to being a lot less in control of my power than on the Kinetic setup, where I could sometimes almost match those perfect ( and somewhat artificial) rectangles you see for KICKRs. On the Direto I’m all over the place, and find it very difficult to hold reasonably steady power. And I honestly don’t know whether it’s me or the Direto. Others here — e.g. fabio, and ari— have also had perhaps related issues, so I thought I’d ask.
In particular, can anyone explain why a properly functioning smart trainer could regularly produce, for instance, graphs of three-minute intervals in which rpms are slowly increasing while power is decreasing? (Provided both power and cadence are in normal ranges and the rider is not only not doing anything herky-jerky or weird, but is doing his best to hold both steady power and steady cadence).
Attached is a screen shot showing this from the Garmin file I made, minus the cooldown, of last week’s Spencer workout on TR. (I can post a shot of the TR file of the same ride if needed.) In this one, cadence is the upper yellow line, and uses a different scale.
The experience is as disconcerting as the graphs are puzzling. Just before the interval, I try to smoothly raise the cadence to the suggested rpm (this workout suggests a little above 100 rpm for the work intervals). There’s a knack to maintaining but not wildly overshooting the cadence as the resistance kicks in over a few seconds — typically the watts are under target for a few seconds, then over, with some fluctuating before things start to settle down. That wobble is not the problem that frustrates me, since it seems to average out. What does is after it settles to the target the power will start to fall a bit even if the cadence has not fallen off enough to register. I apply a smidgen more force to correct this, with perhaps a slight loss of resistance. Rpms move up, e.g. from 101 to 102 or 103. Watts do not; they stay the same, or even decrease! A smidgen more force to counteract this — more of the same. Over the three-minute interval you get that odd inverse relationship you can see best in the third interval: cadence steadily slowly rises while power slowly and steadily falls. At the end of the interval, my average power is well below target! Is that normal for any smart trainer? Any Direto? The practical question is what should one do, if anything, to keep power on target?
It certainly seems and feels to me as if there is some kind of phase problem — where I respond to the trainer and it responds to me, but in such a way that we get more and more out of synch with each other. If I back off enough for a big drop in watts, then resistance does mount, and I do really have to push to avoid a death spiral, and then it predictably eases up as the cadence comes up — and vice versa. It is where I’m trying to hold steady power and cadence, and feel like I am, that this phenomenon occurs. I should add that in the ride shown, I’m also using my 4iii power meter with TR’s Power Match on (auto). Not sure how that figures in.
Seeing as how many of us have yet to receive our Direto’s and our great community here is seemingly more informed and cognitively capable than much of the internet wasteland, what do you make of all these “issues”…?
I understand that we’re all beta testers to a degree, as all the possible combinations of gizmos cannot be fully tested… ( DCR who does an insane amount of preflighting on our behalf not withstanding)
But……I’d like to know, what’s your opinion on Elites tech support/ dedication to solving these issues individually, and speed of SW/firmware updates, thus far in this new relationship….?
In this particular case I’d wager a few bucks it’s TR’s Power Match causing it. It’s well known to cause issues that enumerate in all sorts of interesting ways. When it works – it’s great. But there are countless cases of scenarios like this that just produce totally ‘unique’ results.
I’d personally reach out to TrainerRoad, as they can pull the logs from the ride and tell you exactly what was happening.
Thanks for reply to a too-long post. Amazing work ethic! And you may be right about the issue. I will do a couple rides sans TR’s Power Match, and if the inverse cadence-power thing continues, I’ll bug TR for their help. Their support ethic is very high too and I don’t want to burn them out on something brand new to them too — esp when what I’ve paid them in 2 years is a fraction what my Italian diva cost. Well, I don’t really blame her yet — could be me, as I said, and wanted to run it by all you folks here first. I’ve seen the Facebook forum but only from outside, since I don’t Facebook. Here’s a link to the Elite forum: link to forum.elite-it.com
Bob C….
Thanks for your very detailed “too (not) long post” and especially that Elite forum link….I don’t do FB either and this is another example of why this DCR crowd is so great to hang around… 2nd that emotion on DCR’s work ethic BTW….(I’m so not worthy)
I’m glad I didn’t bet against Ray on this one. I still have to confirm this with clear and consistent data, but I’m pretty sure the Direto itself is not causing the bizarre ERG mode behavior, and that TR’s Power Match listening to my 4iii left-only is, as he suspected. If I turn it off, and make TR deaf to the 4iii, then if cadence is level, so are watts — at least for one quick and dirty test. I also just bought the full version of Ray’s Comparator software to a) support his gig, and b) make my amateur sleuthing as easy as I can. I’ll report back when the results are clearer. Just cautioning others on the fence that I was hasty in blaming the newcomer — the Direto — for results that likely aren’t its fault.
Cool – glad to hear some sleuthing is helping, especially with the Analyzer! Appreciate the support!
Excuse the weirdness of replying to my own post, but maybe best to keep my erg mode issue all in one thread. See #449 for the problem I encountered in TrainerRoad workouts with my 4iiii left-only power meter and the Direto both paired, and Power Match enabled (auto mode) so it could try to reconcile any differences between devices. In erg mode that setup produced a weird graph and an annoying struggle to keep power consistent.
What if I disable Power Match and unpair the 4iiii from TR, so that TR uses only Direto data? The screenshot shows last night’s result on the same TR workout (Spencer), minus Power Match and the 4iiii. The power stays basically flat (not falling) during intervals — just as it should — even with my slight creep upward in cadence. More important than a pretty graph, I’m no longer wrestling with the Direto to stay on target. TR is able to get the Direto to do just what it’s supposed to do — subtly modify resistance to keep average power on target at the cadence I’m pedalling. It now feels just right. So it wasn’t just dumb weak me, either.
Direto TR Spencer Dec 04.png
Does this mean TR’s Power Match is worthless? No. It likely works OK in other setups, or TR would have dropped it. And maybe it can work even to control the Direto with a different separate power meter. All I know is that in my case, with the 4iiii consistently reporting 20-30 watts higher (thanks, Ray, for the Analyzer aka Comparator, which verifies this every time), I can’t satisfactorily use Power Match. Don’t know yet what the TR folk are finding with other combos of power meter + Direto.
So then: What about my trusty 4iiii itself as a possible culprit? Well, I simultaneously recorded the same workout above with the 4iiii on my Edge 520, which doesn’t know about the Direto at all. Aha!
4iiii TR Spencer Dec 04.png
This power curve not only shows the 20-30 watts higher on average. It also shows that strange interval shape that led to my first puzzle in #449, where there is an over-target peak at the beginning of the interval, followed by a gradual decline to below-target, no matter what my cadence is doing. In that case, TR was recording the 4iii while controlling the Direto. The shape’s the same. So it’s been the 4iiii all along for that kink. Et tu, Brute?
I don’t know what exactly to make of this. With a left-only power meter the obvious explanation of discrepancies with values from a smart trainer is that the doubling also doubles any left-right imbalance. That is likely part of it, but not all of it — for reasons I won’t get into here. Suffice it to say that my legs don’t look like the lopsided curve above, and I only get a minor imbalance with single leg tests.
The good news is that I can now get workouts on the Direto that feel right. The bummer is that the power numbers from two “highly accurate” sources are currently less than useful as a gauge of my own changes in fitness. I suspect that the 4iiii— for whatever precise reason — has been cooking them way past that hedged +/- 2% claim, and that means that my indoors VO2 max magically becomes my new outdoors FTP! Ta da. No wonder I liked the 4iiii so much last summer. :-(
Takeaway? (My setup only, in my old man’s range.) TrainerRoad can work fine with my Direto one on one, with Power Match disabled. Zwift likewise. Any measuring device may be certified highly accurate and yet be highly misleading if exactly what it measures and how that is processed downline is not taken into account. For ordinary folk, the power world is still more Babel than lingua franca.
Side note to Ray. I’d have included a public link to the 4iiii / Direto comparison, but for me the public link leads to a blank page in Safari. Well, here it is anyway: link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com.
I setup my new Direto from CT yesterday and I am struggling with the speed reading, showing high values. I know that i have to change the wheel circumference to 173mm on my head unit, but that does not work. (Speed shows OK in Elite Training app with 2096 option and OK too in Zwift). I have a Wahoo Elemnt head unit, which reads extremely high speeds. I use the Wahoo Elemnt utility, go to Sensors and change the default value from 2.096m to 0.173m, but I see no difference on the speed readout in the Elemnt. I also have a Wahoo BlueSC speed/Cadence sensor that i want to use for cadence only. (BlueSC has more accurate cadense than the simulated one in Direto).
I am connecting the Direto to my Elemnt via ANT+ and it shows as FE-C. Ray recommended this option on comments above. When i do that, the Elemnt recognizes the Direto as a “KICKR” trainer and it unlocks the control screens to change resistance etc. But, the freaking speed reads wrong. I do have another option, the BTLE one that reads as “DI” Speed/Cadence, but if I select that, then the Elemnt will not show the “KICKR” trainer screens. What am I doing wrong?
Is this Wahoo head unit bug guys? I found some more info on this here:
link to groups.google.com
UPDATE: Wahoo support got back to me on this issue:
Margaret (Wahoo Fitness Support)
Nov 22, 10:47 AM EST
Hi George,
Thank you for reaching out to us! With the Elite Direto Trainer, for speed you need to be able to set the wheel circumference to get accurate speed so bad news is that isn’t a current feature of the ELEMNT. Good news, you aren’t doing anything wrong and we have addressed this issue and it will be a feature soon. I believe it’s going to be released in a software update on or around November 27th. If it’s not in that update then it will be released in the next one (and I don’t have that release date at this time).
So if you can hang tight for me for a few more days, we should have wheel circumference as a feature for the Elite Direto trainers soon and then you will have accurate speed data.
I’m sorry for the inconvenience.
Cheers,
Margaret
Indeed it was released and is now fixed!
Sorry. Looks like I’ve lost knack of including screenshots. Here are links to both graphs:
link to dropbox.com
link to dropbox.com
Just setup my trainer last night and was thinking it was defective because of the beeping. I’ve seen other posts where this was considered normal behavior. I have no way of knowing if what I’m experiencing is the same as other users so I made an audio recording with a picture of my setup produced into a YouTube video primarily for the purpose of sharing to audio. It can be found at: link to youtu.be
The recording was done at a distance of 3 feet (~1m) and the only audio post processing was to amplify the entire segment to improve the volume range. Nothing was done to deferentially increase the volume of the beep frequencies.
Is this what others are hearing? I know it’s said to be minor and barely noticeable but even this recording doesn’t express how distracting I’m finding it.
It is normal. It is the stepper motor that adjusts the position of the magnets are the difficulty increases/decreases. Some get the noisier stepper motor, some get the more quiet one. Makes no difference on the performance or functionality of the Direto. You are fine. Enjoy it.
I just ordered my direto and am about to take delivery of the unit. I have heard some pretty negative feedback on the direto facebook group concerning the unit. Your review seemed to be very high on this unit. Did I make a mistake not buying a wahoo kickr?
In general, I bucketize things into a few buckets:
A) People with actual issues. These are divided into either known issues, or random one-off defects. As with any unit, that sometimes happens. Given the massive volumes of these trainers going out, even 1-3% (normal consumer electronic failure/whatever rate) is still a lot of people. Remember Elite has doubled production and is still looking at January for catching up retailers.
B) People with non-Direto issues that are mistakingly thinking it’s Direto. Examples being not understanding how Zwift Workout Mode works, or using tech like Power Match which is known to cause wonky stuff. These are just two examples, but there are many more here. This isn’t to blame individuals at all, but just being the reality check that in a 3rd party app world and with emerging tech – sometimes mixing drinks doesn’t always work out well.
C) The sound thing: Elite says this is normal, and while I disagree there should be two units, the reality is that it is what it is and it doesn’t seem to bother most people.
Excuse dbl post if my 1st attempt reappears….
I understand that we are all beta testers in that all the possible combinations of gizmos can’t possibly be tested before they release a unit to the public ……but none of the pre- release testers seemed to have encountered any of these issues at least not in the same frequency or intensity that we’re reading about here….just wondering what everybody thinks about the Elites Tech support/Customer Service and follow through …..
I’m just sayin, because my sense is that if you’re here on this site, I tend to think you are more informed and somewhat more technically (and cognitively) adept than the general internet wasteland……annndddd, we have DCR doing more due diligence on this stuff than the friggin manufacturers…..
So, is everyone confident that these ‘issues’ are being taken to heart and fixed with the appropriate sw/fw updates or workarounds by Elite?
I had one issue that would fall into “B” on DCR’s above post. It actually turned out to be a Zwift issue, but Elite support was decently helpful in investigating the problem before I realized it was Zwift. They didn’t get back to me in an hour, but a day or two IIRC.
I now have enough miles to be level 11 on Zwift and have done Road Grand Tours a few times. No issues with the trainer. Yes, it makes a noise like a dot matrix printer if elevation profiles change a lot, but there’s plenty of other noises going on – bike, fan, music – that I don’t consider it a problem and would never mention it.
I think i’m both n B and A.
A for zwift because i have a 4/5 second lags that i can’t unerstand and hope zwift support with all my logs will find what’s wrong. i’d like to think that is all due to my old laptop…i
B for the ‘issue’ with erg mode that maybe is not an issue but i’m waiting for elite support response. i’m italian and so elite and maybe this could help. If they told me ‘ok your direto is fine if u want to use ERG u don’t have to pass some rpm’.
But i’m happy with my direto and i hope supports will solve this little 2 things. I’ll let u know if something new happens.
It would have been cool if here and on the FB page, where people raise both good and bad, that everyone’s set-up is presented (like you click my name and see a table indicating all of required info, such as App (Zwift, TR, etc), computer/device (iOS, Mac, PC, Android), pairings, wifi stats, connectivity, etc, etc.)
So far I’ve not had issues, and I wonder if it’s in part due to simplicity: used both Zwift (non ERG mode), TR (ERG mode), and iPhone 6. That’s all. No other pairings or other configurations worth mentioning. I haven’t adjusted any settings, and I’ve only calibrated once since September.
Some people have other devices they’re pairing, head units, older computers that run apps in the background and may be a particular nuisance for Zwift, etc. If someone is coming to smart trainers for the first time, I say keep it as simple as possible, and add complexity if you feel the need, after you’ve got everything dialed in.
As a complete newbie to trainers, what do I need to set the wheel circumference to in TrainerRoad and other apps when using the Direto? I’ve seen conflicting info on the web – is it 173 or up in the 2000s?
Thanks!
I made another 2 minute video which shows the operation with the near constant beeping at times. I’ve found you can better simulate what I’m hearing by listening to the video through headphones.
The link to my video is: link to youtu.be
Although the technical operation seems fine, the beeping I’m experiencing is VERY distracting and can still hear it clearly above the sound of bone conduction headphones I wear while riding. I know that some units are quieter than others, but this one can exhibit near constant beeping over long stretches. Just glad I haven’t sold by Gen 1 KICKR yet.
Yep….that would get pretty friggin annoying pretty quickly….hope that ain’t normal…I’d kinda be surprised if it was…..are they (the stepper motors) reacting to input from…., like the terrain, in Zwift?
Or were you just peddling along with a set resistance ?
It was the West Flanders, BE Part 1 ride from VeloReality. Probably similar to Zwift in that the terrain varies so resistance follows along. The info I’ve read is that the noise is coming from the stepper motors. I’ve put in a support request with Elite, so we’ll see what they say. If it’s termed “normal” the Direto is probably heading back to Clever Training.
Yeah…roger that…if that’s the case, I might change my order….
Maybe wear a belt and suspenders by posting on Elites forum as well….A couple of the guys above did…and the moderator responded to their queries…..
link to forum.elite-it.com
Heard back from Elite. As expected, they say it’s normal operation. Guess I was unlucky getting one of the louder versions. Weird having a product with different versions where customers can perceive it in different ways. Seems like they don’t have an audio spec in sourcing their stepper motors from various manufacturers. It’s true that you have a fair amount of drivetrain noise anyways, but the beep is a significantly higher audible frequency and is sometimes occasional and sometimes nearly continuous. The unit is going back to Clever Training unless someone in the Boston area wants to buy it from me.
Given all the discussion about this point in the comments, it might be helpful for Ray to update the review with a short write-up about this luck of the draw pain point.
Sorry to hear that ( no pun ) ….I’m still on the fence….did you experience any of the other issues being discussed? Like 4-5 second lags or resistance drop outs…. guess I oughta start reading some of the other reviews/comment sections to c.m.a….
Hmmmm….do I feel lucky….?
Didn’t notice anything else that was wildly out of the ordinary. Some lag, but not 4-5 seconds; pretty much as Ray talks about in the review. I think you’ve boiled it down to the bottom line – luck. Reaction to sound is personal so what bothers me might be fine for someone else. I think Elite is completely out to lunch selling a product with this type of audio variability. Their charts and graphs and noise analysis is completely meaningless and in my mind is done to insulate them from a huge number of warranty repairs/returns. This is not a matter of scientific analysis but one of human perception. It wasn’t just my perception either. It was driving my wife mad being in the same room hearing that beep, beep, beep.
My advice is to stay away from Elite trainer products unless you’re willing to buy and go through the hassle of expensive return shipping. Ideally buying from a local shop with a fair return policy would be ideal. Shame on me for just reading Ray’s review and not wading through over 400 comments.
What I find funny about this whole thing is that it’s literally the same stepper motor part that’s been used in other Elite trainers for years…years – and nobody ever said anything about being a problem.
Well, technically there are two versions of the stepper motor. A loud one and a more quit one. I have the loud one. I cannot say that it bothers me. I think I actually like it since it indicates audibly change in resistance so I prepare myself. If I had the option to not have it, I would opt for that option. But I am not going to send it back to CT just for that. I did this already several times with the Wahoo KICKR SNAP uneven rollers last year! haha.
How can you check/update Direto’s firnware?? It doesn’t seem that the Elite Training app can do it.
I’ve never dealt with CT before this event, but thus far based on everyone I’ve spoken to there, it seems to be an outstanding, quality shop/group of people….not unlike Ray in that they seem to tell it like it is and aim do the right thing….. Makes sense that Ray would hitch his wagon to them…..(or vice versa ; )
Anyhow, sorry about your misfortune ….big hassle no doubt….
But I’m thinking IF you bought it from CT, that you could share your experience in dealing with them as well ….they claim a 60 day no hassle, aim to please return (replace?) policy….thus, you kinda get to see the sausage being made so to speak and can share your impressions in that regard.
As for me, since Ray is WAAAAYYYY more thorough, experienced and organized than I re: assessing the myriad of gadgets we all lust after… and since all the other reviews seem to echo his conclusions, I’m still gonna go with this unit…..(not to mention the fact that too much rock and roll, gunplay and heavy equipment has rendered my hearing somewhat less than discerning) and maybe the spotlight being shined on this stepper debacle will entice them to weed out the noisy motors from the assembly line going forward…also, I gotta be close to the end of the queue, so the dice feel kinda warm to me at this point.
And just to be really clear on this: I think it’s totally stupid that Elite is sourcing two different components here. And more specifically, that it’s a random chance as to which one you’d get.
I’d personally rather it be one or the other – and have a known quantity.
But, that sourcing limitation is also them trying to meet demand. I suspect at some point they’ll catch-up on parts and it’ll be sole-source again.
As to CT and this return. They were GREAT and gives you confidence in buying from CT. This is my first return with them. I have to send an email to the USA distributor (Todson) and they will handle issuing me a return label. I’m going to offer to drop it off as they are located not too far from where I live. I’m guessing they will prefer it just be shipped back.
As to sourcing… I think any responsible manufacturer has to consider multiple sources for critical parts. Remember what happened with disk drives several years ago and camera sensors 1 1/2 years ago? Natural disasters created significant worldwide supply problems. The trick is to have exacting specs for the parts, and that is something Elite didn’t seem to do or at least around the audio qualities of the motors.
Clayton – I truly hope you end up with a quiet version. I’m waiting on a Neo from CT so noise should not be an issue.
That’s all good news, Man….Glad to hear it….The Neo would be my first choice but I’m trying to show some fiscal restraint where I can… with this being my first foray into indoor training…. I bought a new bike this summer, and new IMac too….and am outfitting my cave as high end as I can within reason…(bought a 55” Black Friday deal) so a big ouch as it is already…..
Also I’m with both you guys regarding the idiocy of having 2 different suppliers/ motors….whatever the issue is…..But I’m guessing they are probably hearing this discourse and discontent and get it straightened out….
This kind of feedback is invaluable for our little congregation here….
I’ve been going through the return process with CT and the Elite distributor. Very smooth and they way you’d always wish customer service would happen. Just a bit of info from the distributor… they are expecting new shipments the end of this month or early January and said they will be much quieter. I asked how you’d know if you’re getting a quiet or noisy version and their response was the new shipment will be much quieter. Not a giant leap to infer that Elite has recognized the issue and maybe the notion of 2 versions (noisy and quiet) of the product will disappear. That would be good news. In the meantime, I took advantage of the 2nd CT trainer promo and received the Neo. What a beast – super quiet and smoooooth. The setup was also easy.
That’s also good news and good for all to hear.. us and them …. truth be told I’m a bit envious…though having to return anything that I’ve got to disassemble, then cleverly repackage REALLY torques me off……but maybe I’m just a delicate flower…..
I hope the distributor is right and I’d be surprised if they didn’t move quickly to fix the stepper issue, if you are an online seller you really don’t want a meme like that getting started…. the competition is too good…as it sounds like you’ve discovered…..
It sucks that I’ve got to wait till January (as CT has already informed me) but if I get a good one that has benefitted from all of our beta testing, I m ok with it….especially since where I live it seems like the 4 seasons are June, July, August and winter…..and this one is forecast to be particularly crappy.
Enjoy.
If you have a movie or music playing, are you still bothered by the motor? I’m considering this trainer as I don’t want to deal with wheel vibration anymore.
no problem if you use headphones. i suggest the ‘in-ear’ versions not for the direto but because generally speaking the isolation is better.
I just picked one up from performancebike. The step motor is very loud. It’s like a dot matrix printer between my legs, and when you set it to maintain a wattage, the beeping is constant on off on off. Quite annoying. It does seem like a nice trainer aside from that, so I’ll try to drown it out with music.
So I did my first actual “ride” today and the step motor (louder version) actually was not noticeable once I loaded up Zwift and turned on some music. …just medium volume.
I pretty much forgot it was there after a few minutes.
Me too. Loud version stepping-motor owner here.
If I blast my stereo or pedal at more than 40 kph (25 mph), it helps to drown out that crazy (loud version) Direto stepper motor constant beeeping and whining.
I guess I’ll find out in 1o years if all that camouflaging during Direto workouts has any effect on my hearing…
;-)
@Fabio:
Is that why my mobile phone always gives me a warning about loud listening volumes when I plug in my earphones/headphones to use music to cover up the bleeping Direto’s loud stepper-motor noises during a workout?
If I don’t turn the head phone volume up – I can still constantly hear that beeeep, beep, beep beeep…etc.
I’m also with all you guys concerning the idiocy of sourcing 2 versions of stepper motors (one loud, whing, beeping constantly, and the other – quiet)!
Then, having the nerve to tell customers of the loud version who complain – “too bad for you, better luck next time… because we at Elite feel that both motors are within our tolerances… noise and all.
@George,
I have the loud Direto step-motor version also. However, mine CONSTANTLY beeps, and not only in anticipation of a change to a change in resistance.
I only wish mine was like yours.
Hi Ray and Anyone,
Just got this trainer and I have a Stages left side power meter. How can I record a small workout with trainer and stages power on the same graph to compare ?
Thanks
John
You’ll need two different devices or apps to record from. If you have one GPS bike computer or favorite app already, that’ll record from one. Then you could use the Wahoo Fitness free app to record the other (or the Strava app as well, thus giving you two files).
Then you could compare with something like the DCR Anaylzer: link to dcrainmaker.com
Hi Ray
During your testing with the Elite Direto did you experience any issue with running out of resistance in Zwift during sprints or hard intervals? I am having issue when I am on the flat sections, when I am riding the flat, I will be in 53 front and 11 rear, 90rpm and it only puts out 280-300 watts. I have to ride hills when I do intervals. The other issue is when sprinting, I get out of the saddle to sprint, get up to 900w in my largest gear, then it seems like the flywheel catches up and after 8-10secs I am spinning at 130rpm 450w. I can’t even do a 20sec sprint. I have the trainer difficulty set to the max, completed the spin down/ calibration.
I have only had my direto for a couple of weeks and I have done the calibration, number came up as 6372. I have emailed Elite and awaiting their feedback. Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Russ
I think I figured it out. I put 173 for circumference, I changed it to 2096 and it seems to be much better with a quick test. Can someone confirm if this is correct? The manual is a bit unclear.
Thx
HI Russel, what u r experiencing is a known ‘issue’…but more than a real issue i suppose is a physical limit of the direto (and someone says that is almost the same thing with drivo)
With big gears you do not have to pass something like a critical cadence, if this happens…you ‘break’ the ERG mode and you can hold even 100 or 200 watts more than the target ones.
So, even if it is not the same identical thing, you only have to shift to shorter gears and this critical cadence start to raise. For example if you choouse a 34×18 or similar you have to go really high with RPM to break ERG and put the direto in trouble.
I think many user have no problem with ERG is only due to the gear and RPM they use…with the ‘right’ gear you can do even 500W intervals without problem.
Hey Ray,
The elite direto box wouldn’t fit in my 135i and I forgot the power adapter in said box, do you know the Voltage and Amperage that the Direto needs? Looks like a standard barrel jack.
Totally bummed out right now :(
12V 1.5A if anyone needs to know in the future.
For everyone who’s having trouble with ERG mode : Elite has just pubblished on facebook direto official page the new poer curve with some correction.
link to facebook.com
With this power curve we can calculate what is the limt of RPM for a given gear in order to don’t ‘break’ ERG mode. If we go outside of this power curve direto (and not only direto ) can NOT hold us back to the target wattages if we pass them.
@Ray, i Hope this could help everyone like me with problems with ERG mode
And from the power curve I made a table to help with the gear choice at different cadences and power ranges to cover. I’ll paste it here too:
Terrific, iker! I don’t do Facebook, so the power curve fabio kindly mentioned did me no good. This is clear, and I can save and refer to it if needed to clear up mysteries. Elite should include it as part of the Direto package. Or maybe they could simplify it: “Use the small chainring unless you’re pro.”
Great Job Iker,
can i pubblish on the italian forum where we are talking of the direto? maybe i should ask this to Ray too since it’s his website.
Can i suggest you to pubblish even in facebook direto official page i ve linked before ? (if have not already done it )
@Fabio, you are welcome to post it.at the forum. i have noticed a typo in the 101-890 watts interval @80 rpm, where it says 50×14 should say 50×19. There could be other errors, but the takehome message is use small ring middle cog unless you are a pro and want to do sprints, and then you will notice a relatively high floor.
im trying to find a correspondence between your file and what i found when i first see the ‘issue’.
I can remember that i was riding with 50×14 and with a target watt of 200W i’ve ‘broken’ ERG mode with a cadence of 95/96 RPM. With that cadence i was riding at 225/230W even with a 200W target wattage.
when target wattage raised at 250W , with the same gear, i needed 100 and more RPM to break it.
Having issues with bluetooth control using iphone and ipad with elite direto. Takes several attempts of unplugging trainer and rebooting iphone or ipad prior to ride. Is there a fix coming for this problem or do I need to return trainer for exchange?
That behavior sounds like you may have an app open somewhere in the background that’s locking the Bluetooth Smart connection (remember, BLE only allows one concurrent connection). Thus your retry over and over is essentially you winning the race for that connection by pure luck.
Thanks Ray. When I’m having trouble, the iphone or ipad is receiving from the trainer(I can see rpm and watts) but the trainer doesn’t change resistance in any mode.
So it’s pairing but not controlling.
Gotchya. What app are you using to control?
TrainerRoad mostly but Elite ap does the same. Others are having similar issues and discussing on slowtwitch. When I get to work, it is awesome. I have shut my ipad down and will continue to try iphone. Hopefully, whatever is causing the problem will be figured out. Thanks again!
What version of iOS are you using….I find ios11 in general to have caused a certain amount of “ bugginess” that I didn’t experience when using ios 10.3.3 …..ive only upgraded my iPad as I use my iPhone to integrate with an antiquated system at work so I can’t risk breaking anything….
Crazy, all worked great today. I turned iphone, ipad and garmin watch off and unplugged the trainer. Plugged the trainer in and turned on ipad only. Opened trainerroad ap and loaded workout then statted pedaling. No issues, erg worked perfect.
And I am using lastest ios update.
Hi Ray,
thank you for the in-depth review of the Direto, I found it very helpful. I am currently choosing a home trainer and what I thought would be a relative easy choice is proving itself to be more and more complicated.
I would like to ask you for a piece of advice on choosing a trainer that would suit me. I am 194cm tall and weigh about 110 kg and as a former shot putter and with my weight I can produce some above average wattage through my legs. Since better home trainers cost about the same as my bike, it is an investment I would like not to mess up. What would in your opinion be the best option for an amateur cyclist like me who would also like to do some indoor training during the rainy winter days here in Germany. Would you recommend the Direto or is there another alternative to it? I am aware that with my weight I should probably not sprint my butt off on it, but it would be nice to have something that I would be confident enough to use.
Thanks for your time and any advice you might have for me.
Best, Luka
I’m considering this trainer as I’ve always wanted to go direct mount (but didn’t want to shell out 1200+ USD.
Can anybody comment on the Elite warranties within the United States? Is it more or less non-existent, being an Italian based company with only one US distributor?
I’m thinking more outside the 1 – 2 month window that the stores would give you for returns…say the unit breaks down in 8 months, would a LBS be able to send it to a US distributor (or Italy) for a replacement if it’s under a year?
And say it’s been 2 years (not sure if they do a 1 year, lifetime, 1 month warranty…) – if it’s outside whatever window they have, do LBS have any luck sourcing parts or repairs for Elite trainers?
This is an awesome pricepoint – my only concern is if it breaks down in 2 years if there would be any option for repair. I’ve checked their website and there is basically no warranty policy available from what I could find.
It’s a 2-year warranty. You may want to ask this question on the FaceBook site, which Elite is on frequently.
I’ve just got myself a Direto to replace a failing Vortex. Whilst the feel is much improved, I am pretty disappointed by how poorly the Direto follows the TrainerRoad power curve in ERG mode. The Vortex would keep very close to the line. The Direto is all over the place. I thought that I had an issue with the unit until I re-read this article and saw how variable your power plot was on TR.
Ugh. I might cancel my pre-order. Has anyone heard from Elite if this is being looked into?
no problem for me with erg mode and TR. but it ‘s better if you read the power curve of the direto or one of the sheet some user has created based on that power curve. If u pedal outside of the area between the 2 lines of the power curve direto can’t hold the requested wattage.
So I’ve read some of the comments above and on the excellent Elite Direto group on faceboook. I have set the power smoothing (to 5 initially) and tried using the small ring for lower target power and my first, albeit rather brief, test is much more positive. Managed to keep much closer to the target power curve. Will have to wait a couple of days for an opportunity to try a full workout.
I have actually the exact same experience (except my vortex is still fully functional) – Wonky power on the Direto (though interval average is usually pretty much good), going to try the power smoothing.
For what it’s worth the resistance seems pretty constant and my Garmin Vector 3 report the same power.
I think we are just used to artificially smoothed power from the nature of the vortex. From what I hear the kickr is the same with the flywheel internally.
How are you now finding the power smoothness with the Direto compared to the Vortex? I have a Vortex at the moment and I am thinking of getting the Direto. However, the ability to ride and hold the power specified in TrainerRoad is important. I saw DC’s review and was surprised to see the spikes in TrainerRoad when in ERG mode. I never get that with the Vortex. So any observations will be appreciated.
Anyone notice beeping problem .if yes how to solve it ? link to youtu.be something like this. Wouldn’t mind when on and off but every time I stop or during the ride is bad.
@Patryck
My Direto has that aggravating beep you’re referring to.
It’s due to Elite sourcing 2 different versions of stepper-motors to build the Direto. Unfortunately you and I both have the annoying, noisy stepping motors.
These motors are constantly re-adjusting to try and maintain a stable speed vs. the in-game slope (Sim mode), Erg workout power intervals, and the cyclist’s power pushed on the pedals. That’s their hardware design.
Unfortunately those loud version stepping-motors are like constant whining, beep, beeeep, beeep repeatedly – as if you’re stuck in Manhattan, New Delhi or Cairo traffic with everyone’s car horns blaring constantly.
Caveat Emptor: Elite responds by saying both motors (loud and quiet) are “within their tolerances”. Therefore, It’s akin to saying: too bad, so sad if you happen to have a bought a loud version.
Some will say – just turn up the fan speed and stereo volume blasting in your ears – to camouflage the stepping-motor noise, and pedal at more than 40 kph…
Until you get tinnitis or become partially deaf lol.
Just bought the Elite Direto. Nightmare using Bluetooth. Only works with Elite App but no way to make it work with Zwift. Went to Elite forum and they are acknowledging major software bug with Zwift and they are clueless. This must be clearly taken into account when reviewing this product and according to this review the Direto appears being the most compatible trainer on market…that’s not the case
Err…no.
Do you have a link to this apparent Bluetooth/Zwift bug that nobody else in 516 comments has reported?
Works just fine on Bluetooth with Zwift.
Sure – here you go
link to forum.elite-it.com
Please note the Elite Admin admitting the bug that many other had. They say “write to Zwift”….now I am going to buy the Ant+ USD device for my PC, that should work. Any advice on that?
Thanks
Thanks.
In looking through that thread, there appears to be roughly 6-8 different things people are talking about. While all have the word ‘Zwift’ and ‘Bluetooth’, they are actually different items interestingly enough.
– Some folks trying to pair BT directly on Windows: This actually hasn’t much worked for any trainer, let alone the Direto
– Some folks trying to pair BT in the control panel of their phone: Same deal, just not the way sensors work.
– Some folks trying to pair via Android mobile link app: Now this should in theory work, but Zwift has somethings been funky on this honestly with a wide variety of trainers. If this isn’t working today (I haven’t tried it recently on Android specifically), then it wouldn’t surprise me. But, I’d actually agree with Elite that this would 100% be a Zwift issue, because it would mean they haven’t properly implemented BT FTMS (trainer standard for Bluetooth) on the Android app (which wouldn’t really surprise me, since it’s kinda new).
As for ANT+ and PC, yup, that works no issues. I think I show that above in this post too.
Enjoy!
Looks like the common problem with BLE connections — can only be paired to one app at a time. That means that App #1 must be terminated before App #2 can form a BLE connection to the same sensor. When App #1 is only put in the background, it still claims the BLE connection preventing App #2 from finding it upon startup.
For Richard Davies and any others like me, who had some early problems with the Direto in erg mode on TrainerRoad, or who are worried that they may, I want to offer an update to my earlier posts. Here is a link to yesterday’s 60-min Sweet Spot session (Mount Field, for those who know it) on TrainerRoad in erg mode, displayed on Ray’s very useful tool (Analyzer, aka Comparator).
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
The purple line shows the power reported by the Direto to the TR app, the green line the power reported by my 4iiii left side crank arm power meter to an Edge 520. In this ride, the TR doesn’t know about the 4iiii at all, and the Edge 520 doesn’t know about the Direto. TR’s Power Match feature is completely OFF. (In light of recent posts, I should also mention that both devices are paired to TR via ANT+, not Bluetooth.)
As you can see, both graphs basically agree on their response to my pedaling on longish steady-state intervals. Both are jagged instant by instant, but still on average flat over 4-5 seconds or more. As I understand it, the short rapid fluctuations in power are real and normal for even very smooth riders, and not a defect in the device(s) reporting them. As a newbie to smart trainers, I was expecting the absolutely rectangular pictures I’d seen from users of the early KICKR, but I now understand that to be an artifact of smoothing, not the reality of what legs are doing. My issue was not really the picture anyway. It was the sensation of fighting the trainer to stay on target. Disabling Power Match in TR effectively solved that, as well as the advice (echoed by Fabio here) to use the small chainring and a middle cog.
A satisfactory erg mode ride and two independent sensors agreeing on my pedaling over time is the good news. I have to qualify that with an important tweak I made. I found and used a Precision 4iiii feature I had overlooked: the “Scale” function (available in the little app that comes with the 4iiii). (I suspect it is what TR’s Power Match tries to do, just before the value even arrives at an app.) It allows you to scale the value coming out of the 4iiii up or down by any percentage you fill in. I used it to scale the 4iiii value to 90% — because it was regularly reporting values at least 10% higher than the Direto. So the agreement between the two devices is artificial in the absolute sense. They still actually disagree by 20-25 watts on what I’m putting out in a given duration. But they do agree very closely and consistently on how much my power is going up or down during that duration.
In Zwift, with the same 90% tweak of the 4iiii, the results are the same: the ride feels mostly right, and the numbers now independently correlate very very closely.
So my (qualified and hedged) takeaway from just my particular Direto (loud stepper, no Elite decals on legs, early?) at my level, with my connections, on TR and Zwift, is that the Direto seems to be working in erg mode OK as long as a) I don’t use TR’s Power Match to reconcile a 4iiii that reads 25 watts higher, and b) use the small chainring. If you’re set up differently, or train way outside my old man’s range, you may get way different results.
I think I’ll stop here with just these limited facts with the device itself. The My E-Training app (and site) is a whole other issue, and maddening, but its bugs haven’t made the trainer itself unuseable for me.
What is the implication of the limited connection capacity with BLE on using Direto with Apple TV? The computer I use for Zwift does not produce great graphics so I’ve been thinking of purchasing an Apple TV to run Zwift. Does the problem with the BLE connections means that I will not be able to use Zwift, Apple TV and the Direto in combination? I think using that setup would require having Mobile Link reading my heart rate sensor. Would that be feasible?
I have not been able to connect the Direto to my PC using BLE. Ant+ has been working fine though.
No real limitation with BLE and Apple TV.
The specific BLE limitation (which is true of all* BLE devices, regardless of manufacturer), is one concurrent inbound connection to that specific sensor. Apple TV (as well as many bike computers and watches) use a full Bluetooth 4.0+ stack on them, which means they can connect to multiple BLE sensors. In the case of Apple TV, that’s technically three sensors (including the remote). Direto uses up one of those.
*Note for geeks: Even more technically, it’s actually no longer a BLE spec limitation, it hasn’t been since BLE 4.1, though the BT SIG wants you to believe it was lifted in BT5.0, but it was actually lifted in BT 4.1 about three years ago. Nevertheless, not a single company has implemented support for multi-master connections within the sports realm, so we’re still living under the single-connection paradigm in BLE for now.
Thanks for the quick and thorough response.
Bob – thanks for providing this information.
I’ve been using my Direto since September, and with the recent weather here in Canada I’m using it 4x a week as of late. I tried Zwift for a little over a month, and I’m now using TR exclusively. I’ve always used the small ring, middle cog, and I’ve not had any issues. I don’t even want to try a different gear combination!
FYI – From what I’m reading in forums, it seems that the Left/Right pedal analysis requires the purchase of a wired cadence sensor. The only place that seems to sell this is the main elite website. The sensor itself is cheap, but the shipping / VAT bring it to $43 US Dollars in total.
Hi!
Maybe a stupid questions, but can I pair the Direto to my Apple TV running Zwift via BT and, at the same time, record the session on my Forerunner 935?
I guess it basically comes down to the question if BT and ANT+ connectivity can be used at the same time, or if the Direto shuts down ANT+ once connected via BT.
If anyone has tried, would be great to know.
Thank you.
Yup, zero problems doing dual ANT+/BLE. Enjoy!
Awesome! Thanks.
When using an ANT+ sensor to Zwift, the Elite is outputting 3 different sources of power, each a little bit different than the other. Anyone have any idea which is the ‘right’ one or if there are any differences along with why they each reading slightly different.
They’re all identical, but you’ll see very tiny bit of lag between them, which might make them look different.
I’m trying to buy a bike to pair with the direto and so far I’ve found a Giant Contend 1 2017 model for just under 500 dollars. The bike has is mostly shimano sora groupset, would this be a fine starting point that’ll work well with the Direto?
Yup, that’ll work just fine here. Don’t forget you’ll still need a cassette for the Direto too.
Hi Ray, thanks for the great review. I bought the Direto after reading this and am loving it. I do have one question. When you do a spindown calibration in trainerroad, do you need to worry about any sort of wheel circumference adjustment, or does the software not need this information to perform an accurate spindown? Trainerroad asks you to stop pedalling at 18kph, and this only requires a few turns of the pedals on my trainer.
Thanks again.
James
Hi Ray
I’ve been riding the Direto for a week now. I noticed recently that if I stop pedaling my chain goes completely slack and I risk getting chain suck. Is there something wrong with the freehub or is this common to direct driver trainers?
Thank you
No, that’s not normal. But that sounds more akin to something up with your rear derailleur though*.
*Definitely not a bike mechanic.
After several workouts on my new Direto I am as sure as I can be that it is reading 50+ watts too low. I have tried it in erg mode in the Elite app, Perfpro app, and Ergvideo app, and the results are consistent. I have not made a direct comparison with another power meter as both my road bikes use Powertap G3s, but these are consistent with each other and were always within about 8% of my old Computrainer.
I have trained with power for several years and am very clear about roughly the power I can produce for a given time for a given time of year. It varies a bit of course, but unless my FTP has suddenly dropped by 50+ watts in 2 weeks, or unless my other three power meters + those of all my riding mates are all overreading by 50W, the problem is with the Direto. When I’m on form my FTP is about 285W, in January it’s usally more like 260W. On the Direto, one hour at only 200W pretty much maxes me out.
Direto is callibrated (after warmup) and the offset is very close to the sticker on the unit. None of the problems with erg mode other people have experienced, holds power well as long as I’m in the right gear. Connected using first gen Garmin Ant+ dongle. Slope mode seems equally underpowered.
Could really use some help on this if anyone has any comments. Thanks to DCR for the review, the fact that you (and apparently so many other people!) got such accurate results gives me hope!
Contact Elite about it. Mine was reading about 20W off and they sorted it out by changing some parameters on it remotely via my ANT+ dongle
I have been using my new Direto for about 2 months now, exclusively in Zwift, and it has been flawless, until last week that is. While doing one of the “My First Century” workout, the power metric went up to the roof (ie. >1000 watts), and there was an unusual sound/feel coming from the unit itself. I tried the MyETraining app and was able to confirm the same problem. Has anyone else here experienced this issue?
I have contacted Elite Support, but no response back yet after 4 business days. Being the Holiday season I’m not too concerned just yet, but I’m wondering if anyone has had so good/bad experience with their support?
Thanks!
I contacted support just into the New Year and they’ve been quite responsive
I made contact with Elite support just after the New Year, and they’ve been quite responsive
Sticky cassette/freehub
My Direto was great for the first week, then suddenly a problem developed. If I freewheel, the cassette/freehub wants to keep rotating forward, not at the same speed as the flywheel, but enough to have the chain slap on the chainstay and to worry that I might get a bad case of chain suck and have my derailleur ripped off.
If I loosen off the drive-side lock ring, the freehub freewheels better, but once I start pedaling, the forward momentum tightens down the lock ring again.
Does anybody else have this problem?
sorry if this has been answered already…I didn’t see it if it was. but will this or any other trainer support new 12 speed mtb and/or boost configuration now more standard with mtb?
Brilliant Review as always.
Can I just ask if it is possible with this unit to follow a route on my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt, replicating the hills etc of a previous outdoors ride?
Just purchased the Elite Direto trainer and been having problems with it responding to Zwift in terms of speed and elevation changes. Tried very hard to connect with someone in tech support but it seems your on your own with this trainer for help. Have been corresponding with Zwift support and it seems they are many others with the same type elevation change and or resistance issues. I’m using this trainer Bluetooth with an Apple MacBook Pro and have no other bluetooth devices connected.
Would you happen to have a tech support phone number to call for this trainer?
Thanks,
James D
Hi James,
I have the same setup (Direto, Macbook Pro) and had similar issues with the Bluetooth connection. For me it sometimes worked, sometimes there was no resistance control at all.
The issue was gone as soon as I started using an ANT+ stick for controlling the Direto (I got the ANT+ stick, so I can connect to some other sensors as well).
Have you tried using Zwift Mobile Link on your phone to connect to the Direto?
From my experience so far though, I can recommend going via ANT+ – it is more reliable and also the resistance changes seem more immediate (in my limited experience). An ANT+ dongle costs EUR 16 (no name brand, works perfectly without any installation)
Thanks Christian,
I’ll try that out before I return the trainer.
Is the ANT+ stick something I can purchase through my local bike shop?
Probably yes – if they sell bike computers.
I bought mine online. Amazon.
Jim,
They’re anywhere from $25-$50. I’ve heard it recommended you buy a brand name one, to get consistent data. I had to buy a 6′ USB extension cable from my laptop to the trainer in order to get great results. ANT+ has a shorter range than Bluetooth
I can only second Jim about the extension cable. In my setup the laptop touches my front wheel and I’m good with just a 10cm extension cable I still had in my cable stash (that’s 0.3′ I guess) –
In addition to the distance there seems to be a problem with the aluminum Macbook shielding the ANT+ receiver and the short extension cord helps a lot (connection was very unreliable when plugged in directly)
Christian,
What you have observed is correct: Zwift has not implemented Elite’s BT protocol properly and as such is applying wrong slope data back to the Direto. Until Zwift does this implementation correctly it is better to use ANT+. You’ll notice when using the Direto controlled by ANT FE-C that the resistance is continuously controlled. This is because the Direto implements an algorithm (a good one I may add) that adjusts resistance to match slope for a certain speed. The slope (or call it resistance created by gravity), is simulated by brake resistance. The latter is a function of speed. So, at 10 kph, the Direto can only simulate a slope of 8.5% for a rider + bike weight of 86 kg.
Very interesting – thank you! Indeed very happy with the Direto and Zwift via AT FE-C
I purchased my Direto in early November. It was about 3 weeks before I was able to take it out of the box and give it a try. From late November until now I have had problems with it and have been working with Elite Direto tech support to try to resolve it but am not getting very far. Problem is that when I’m awake in the US, they’re asleep in Italy, and visa versa. Here’s the problem: Using Elite MyETraining software app from my computer (or with the smart phone app) at about 300 watts and higher there is no difference in resistance, even all the way to 900 watts. Also from about 7% gradient and higher, all the way to 14%, there is no difference in resistance. Beginning at 300 watts and beginning at about 7% gradient I don’t hear any sound coming from the stepper motors. Do you guys have the notorious stepper motor beep/buzz above 300 watts and above 7% incline as it’s making its resistance changes?
Hi,
What you observe is correct. There is a simple explanation for this: riding a slope you have a fixed force pushing you back called gravity. This is fixed per grade of slope. The Direto’s resistance is delivered through a braking system. The brake resistance is a function of speed. At 10 kph, you’re maximum brake power setting will produce less watts at than at 20 kph. The amount of watts at 10 kph is 216 W for the direto. This means that if your climbing a steep slope that makes you go to your lowest gear ratio (small front and largest rear cog), you’re speed will be low and as such you’ll only be delivering only enough watts to simulate a lower slope value than the 14% (for a 14% slope and a rider of 86 kg including bike weight need to produce 343 W to reach 10 kph. The Direto only produces 216 W at that speed) . Direto uses a specific algorithm to translate slope grade to resistance. With Ant FE-C control, you will hear the stepper motor make small adjustments all the time when you do the slope set training (vs the level training that is the level of the braking system). It tries to match compensate for small changes in brake resistance that are function of speed. It’s hard to keep up an exact speed value at low RPM’s. The Direto is measuring things very accurately and will therefore make adjustments based on small changes. It will even compensate for the difference in pedaling force you have between right and left leg. Don’t worry, Elite said there is no issue with lifetime of the brake system because of this. So, Direto is truly a good trainer, but you need to understand it. Unfortunately there is no documentation explaining this. I had to ask, but they were very supportive in providing the data and explanation about how it works.
@Nick F. Thanks for the “simple explanation” lol. I was wondering the same question re. slopes and 14%. Yes indeed, it is too bad this “simple explanation” is not made very clear to potential buyers of Diretos – in laymen terms, beforehand.
To be fair, perhaps other smart trainers also function in a similar manner – re. their “maximum slope specs”?
30 Watts differnece Elite Drivo vs. Quarq dzero
I used a Quarq dzero so far, for trainerroad. Since 5 days I `m an owner of a Direto. Last session I made trainerroad with the direto an tracked the quarq dzero with my Polar V650.
The drivo showed always 30 watts more, than the quarq.
How can that be.
Yes I calibrated both before
I am seeing the same with my Powertap P1s. The Elite is 30w higher than the P1s throughout the whole ride. The below ride had me calibrate both the Elite and the P1 prior, then again after the 2×12 intervals.
Is there some calibration parameter with wheel size that we should be messing with to bring them back in line?
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
Search for my comment above using my last name. I had the same problem and Elite re-calibrated my Direto remotely using my data. It worked but I’m not a fan of it. I feel a bit cheated. The machine should come out of the box properly calibrated.
If you go the same route and have elite remotely calibrating your Direto, I recommend that you give them a data file where you cover a wide range of power values. Append, properly aligned, data from multiple sessions if you need to. The problem that I have is that when I produce a lot of power, my direto tends to underestimate my power. That’s because I had sent Elite a file where I did not do high efforts, making high wattage out of sample. So, right now, my Direto gives accurate power measure within the power range in the data file I sent. I’m thinking of asking Elite to re-calibrate the Direto.
I just did the step test (1 min at 100 + 50 watts up) and sent the results to Elite. Let’s see what they decide to tweak. I calibrated the P1 and Direto around the 20 min mark and have the results below.
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
Hi Eric, just having a look at your data files – couple of things pop out… Originally you mentioned your Direto was reading low as the power went up and then they tweaked it (minus high range power). So now looks like the Direto is reading a bit high at lower wattages, is that right ?
Also, as the power goes up, and the duration increases you seem to have a increasingly marked difference between left and right leg. In those high efforts, the Direto seems to be reading somewhere between the L/R values – which seems sort-of reasonable to me. Have you noticed the discrepancy yourself at high efforts ?
Cheers, good luck with the recalibration efforts.
Excellent review as usual! Unfortunately, my experience with the Elite Direto has not been as positive. I got my unit with no hole drilled in the main unit to allow the right leg to be installed. I sent a message to Elite as well as post on their forum but no responses from them. I was so looking forward to using it after pre-ordering it in November 2017 and receiving in January 2018 and was really disappointed by getting a defective unit, and Elite not replying to my messages. I wouldn’t recommend getting an Elite trainer unless there’s a LBS or Elite repair shop that can help with defective units.
Did you remove the leg and try to make sure the screw will thread in on its own? I think I saw your post on the Elite forums. I had similar troubles, just had to sort of wiggle everything while pushing the screw. The threads are tight so you might want to have someone push the unit towards you while you push the screw in and turn.
Great review as always.
I got my Direto this week, worked fine first couple of times then today the flywheel appears to be locked solid, it will turn barely if I stand my 106 kg on one crank at a time but the chain is more likely to snap than flywheel move mostly.
Has anyone else had this?
Bluetooth appears to be connected okay as it gives me a cadence when I back pedal on either iPad or android apps.
Hi Chris,
could you please drop an email to me?
mattia.gomiero@elite-it.com
I’ll look after your issue.
I have some metal flakes that I noticed on my Direto trainer by the cassette. Any thoughts on what it could be causing this? I followed the installation directions, and I don’t know what’s going on. Thoughts? Thank you.
Does anyone experience issues with the Direto not adjusting in ERG mode sometimes? On the whole it works very well, but every now and again it will just stop adjusting resistance, rather annoying when I want to enjoy recovery interval and the thing is still making me crank out 350W. The opposite is also true, sometimes it will just sit at 150W when a 350W interval comes up, sometimes by as much as 30 seconds after which it kicks in.
Anyone else getting that? Is it a signal problem? I’m using a garmin ant+ dongle on a windows pc. About 2-3m distance between the dongle and the trainer.
I have/had the same problem.
I connected it via Bluetooth.
Do you use another Powermeter. I used a Quarq dzero same time. Maybe the two signals are to much
Yeah I have a P2m as well.
Does connecting with bluetooth help?
I don’t know. Just try it. I always connected via Bluetooth and last session I canceld the connection to the quarq and the problem has gone. Maybe it was coincidence.
Is there anyone of you guys who compare the power readings from the Direto with those from STages ( I have a 2nd gen Ultegra 6800 172.5mm)?
I ask because I find some “odd” differences (normally in the range of 10W with the Direto reading higher values), which is not systematic but when it happens it Always happens more or less in this way and I was curious to determine if it’s a calibration offset, if it’s tolerance reading, if it’s legs offset (I don’t think so) or what.
thanks
Luca
Yes,
I briefly ran a Stages Gen1 6800, Garmin Vector 3, Elite direto on one bike and looked at the data.
Everything was calibrated.
Vector 3 and Direto were basically bang on, the stages was about 20W low consistently though all the intervals.
L/R split was close to 50/50 through the workout.
Thank you so much for the feedback.
Now that I think about it I have a Stages also on the FSI. I’ll plug it on the direto and see how the things go. I’d expect that it won’t have any offset so that everything will still be confused……..
keep you updated.
bye
Luca
I tested again the Ultegra Stages on a workout (session of high power @ low cadence) and on a couple of recovery rides and it happened both to see the Ultegra match the Direto, and it to be below.
When below it is typically in the range of 10W or so, at times it happened to be by 20W.
The offset may change during the training, maybe after 20-30 minutes they start to match, and then after 10-15 minutes they’re again offset by 10W.
At higher candence values (above 105 rpm) i’d say it’s more difficult to see them pairing well.
I tested the FSI hollowgram stages as well on a recovery ride and it exceeded the Direto by 20W quite steadily. Never tested a real workout on the MTB to check if at different power or cadence values the story is different.
This past summer I installed a PowerTap wheel together with the STages on the road bike and they paired very nicely both at soft pace, during few sprints and during a slightly harder climb (450-500 W for less than a minute). I ended the test beliving that the Stages was fairly precise, now I start to doubt that the mtb is just over estimating my power and the MTB is the race bike…….
Tested the MTB Hollowgram Stages during workout and these are the results I got for the moment:
At low cadence (50-55 rpm) Stages and Direto pair very well, at normal cadence (90-105rpm) the offset is in the range of 20W (C’dale Stages OVER the Direto), over 105 rpm the offest increases and goes in the range of 20-30W (C’dale Stages OVER the Direto), with peaks that could each even 35W.
I did the same workout with the Ultegra Stages and results indicate same behaviour in terms of offset variations: at low cadence they seem to pair well, at normal cadence there’s an offset (and in this case the Ultegra Stages is BELOW the Direto by 10W or so) while at higher candece values the offset may increase and in that case it fluctuated between 10 and 20W (always with the Stages BELOW the Direto).
This week I’m gonna repeat the workout with a different Ultegra Stages unit, and with a SRAM Gxp Stages unit installed on a mtb of a friend of mine. Let’s see what results we get.
Could be that I’m giving too much importance on these but I’m a bit annoyed by this difference and this “lack of reliability” of the absolute data.
If the difference is cadence related, i’d be tempted to consider dynamic leg imbalance as a source of power variance as well as any inherent differences between the two meters. Even at the best of times, comparing against single-sided power meters is always going to be tricky….
Thanks for your reply Tim,
I find your conclusion very reasonable and I was tempted to conclude the same, but if difference is due to my legs why one Stages decreases with cadence (Ultegra) while the other increases (C’dale)? I would find reasonable for both to go in same direction (lower cadence means higher/lower readings for both, and viceversa) while they simply get closer one another (and in particularly they meet where the Direto is) at low cadence, while they get far from the Direto at higher cadence.
I was annoyed by this because I train a lot on the road bike while I race 99,99% on the mtb: if I have to account for 20-30W less from the readings I could even do but I’d like to know that (and in any case I would be very sad :P )
thanks
Luca
Thanks Luca, I had missed the fact that the discrepancy went in two different directions. As you say, that would seem to rule out any noticeable leg imbalance effect. Good luck with your investigation, hope it has happy conclusion.
Cheers
Tim
Guys,
is there anyone here that has tried to compare Direto power readings with Stages (in my case it’s a 2nd gen for Ultegra 6800, 172,5mm)?
I’m experiencing strange fluctuations, normally of about 10W (with the Direto reading higher) which may occur for the entire ride, or may come out after 30-40 minutes during which both agreed minus 1-2 W.
I do not understand if that is me, if it’s the stages or if it’s the direto and I was curious to hear others experiences
Luca
If both ANT+ and Bluetooth are available for connection to Zwift running on Windows, what would be the better protocol to connect with?
I’m assuming you’re talking about ant or BT for pairing the Direto?
If Zwift would support Native BT (so BT directly on the pc or laptop) and implements the protocol properly I would go with BT. ANT+ is just not robust enough for a cycle trainer in my mind. Nor is it for sensors on the bike. The amount of times I have signal drops during a session with ant is just not acceptable. The reality is we live in very noisy environments, noisy in the 2.4 GHz band thta is. My trainer is in the garage next to the the mian wireless AP. There is a wireless keyboard I’m using to control my zwift ride, I have BT in the PC for picking up my HR etc. It is almost impossible to keep interference under control. So, there it is: today BT and zwift with the Direto is a no go because of protocol implementation issues: Zwift please fix this!!!!! And because you have to use the zwift mobile link app: Zwift please fix this !!!!!!. You’re down to ant+. As a side note I found my suunto ant adapter has failed for whatever reason. Fortunately I had a spare ant+ usb adapter from Mantel.
Thanks. I have an ANT+ adapter, did not realize that Zwift did not support BT in Windows. No big deal I guess, all my other sensors (cadence, HR) are ANT+ only anyways. I got it all paired and it seems to be working well so far.
Hello,
I have two questions regarding this trainer:
– I understand there are 2 “versions” of the step motor, one being louder than the other, is there a way to know which one it is before buying?
– Is it possible to unfold the legs, but not completely? It is larger than most other trainers and I’ve a constraint on width
Thanks,
Seb
I can’t answer the stepper motor question, Seb, except to sayI think I’ve got the loud one and it hasn’t been a deal breaker.
On width: My Direto is 84 cm wide with legs completely unfolded and securely clamped. If you’ve got 84.5, I’d say you’re fine. Because of the way the legs unfold, unfolding them partially doesn’t seem like a good idea. To reduce the width just 10 cm, you must really change the angle of the legs. More importantly, you can no longer clamp them in place with the clamp screw — there is nothing to clamp to as you move them inward. At a certain point, the swivel design means your weight would start to move them inward with every jiggle. I’m sure Elite’s lawyers would say NO! You might get away with it for a centimeter or two, but I’d be careful after that.
FWIW,
I ordered my Direto from Clever Training as a DCR VIP on the last day in the last hours of the Black Friday sale….
I finally received my unit, and have gotten it up and running.
I’m running it on Zwift off my late 2017 iMac mirroring to a 55” 4K (Black Friday) LCD.
Did my calibration and am within 2pts of the factory #.
Thus far it it very quiet and responsive….caveat being I’ve only just done some “berry picking” rides…. just to get acclimated, and slowly regain my some calluses on my ass….been off the bike since Black Friday….ouch….
The ONLY issue I encountered was a failure of my iMac(Zwift?) to find the Direto….following the first few suggestions of this article fixed it :
link to support.zwift.com
for those of you that are nerdily inclined Zwiftilyzer reports that I’m able to achieve Ultra 1080 display of ZwiftWorld with my setup.
i7 iMac 4.2 Gig,24 gig ram, Radeon Pro 580
Oh…forgot to mention….it looks as though my unit may have been manufactured in late December around or on the 27th…..
So, that would mean that Elite had plenty of time to dispatch most if not all of the Gremlins that have been discussed here…..
We will see….so far so good….
Thank you Bob,
Do you think the legs can be folded and unfolded with the bike on the trainer?
Basically I would like to quickly park it in a corner of my flat and the 84cm are a bit of a problem with this plan :)
Clayton, I take it the step motor is of the quiet kind? I was thinking of buying from CT too
I think so, but give me a day to experiment, and I’ll tell you what I find.
Hi Sebastien,
yes, you can fold the legs with the bike on – I do this sometimes as well. The design is not ideal for this though (screws at the bottom of the Direto need to be loosened).
I would definitely not ride the Direto with the legs only partially out (as Bob mentioned)
Sébastian,
To the best of my knowledge, with very few miles ridden, I would say yes…. mine has been absolutely silent in that regard thus far.
……the caveat being, I just found that the “realism” setting in Zwift is set at 1/2 by default, which means I wasn’t feeling, nor was the program calling for, maximum input from the server motors….
Sooooo…….my next ride (work travel permitting) will be much longer and at full “reality simulation” meaning a 6% grade will “feel” like 6%…..not 2 or 3 percent……
From what I’ve read
Sebastien,
Did my experiments. As Christian mentioned, the legs can be folded / unfolded with the bike on, provided the screws are loosened. For storage only (no rider) I found the bike / trainer still stable with legs folded to about 45-50 cm total width. If they are entirely folded it’s a little wobbly, especially on the left side, and not that much is gained.
Couple other points: I have no trouble scooting the combo around with the bike on, but I have a hard flat floor. A carpet, rug, or mat might be more awkward. I don’t typically use the clamp screws at all. I ride with the legs completely unfolded and there is no tendency for them to fold in. If you want to be completely safe, it is possibly to tighten the screws with the bike on; they’re reachable even though on the underside. Finally, I remove and store both bike and trainer after every use. Since it’s easy to put the bike on and take it off, I’d rather do that than risk damage moving them very far together.
Thank you for your answers, it’s very helpful :)
Well got to ride today @“full reality” and the Direto is still quiet…No discernible stepper motor noise at all….My only complaint is that any hills of consequence seem to start very abruptly there is not much of a taper ……
Well I’ve got about 500 mi (770km) of Zwifting on my Direto and I’m perfectly happy…it’s quiet seems responsive, and fairly consistent with its output….there’s even been a few instances where in a rapidly increasing grade I f’d up my gear changes to much clunking and grinding, but it it caused no harm…(I have yet to attempt ERG mode)
In fact I find myself breezing past other riders on inclines ( and sprints) with very smooth gear and resistance changes….don’t know if that’s the unit, or because I’m hooked up through my imac with a very robust processor, and graphics card with a fast hardwired internet connection …..or a combination of both.
I’ve recalibrated twice and each time it’s been 2 points lower than the previous number….which I assume is due to drive belt stretch.
And FWIW….with my set up on a 55” 4K I can run 1440 Ultra….JUST…… without any major loss of frames, polygons, or blurring…I also run the Companion app on my iPad ….
I’m a very satisfied if not happy… Direto owner thus far……
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the review. It seems to be the best choice right now for those who don’t want to go over 1000€ and still have something good.
I have a question though, regardign cadence. Taking a look at those peak values (not real), would it be posible to have an external cadence sensor linked to (let’s say) an Edge? I know the answer will be yes, but will the Garmin (or any other device or app) show the power from the roll and the cadence data comming from the external ANT+/BT sensor?
I ordered the wired cadence sensor which is need to give ‘accurate’ L/R balance readings in the pedal analysis (to help confirm which is left / right foot). I also subscribed to the pedal analysis function in the Elite training app. After paying the overseas shipping on the cadence sensor I had high hopes.
It has some nice bells and whistles but I’m not too impressed for a few reasons.
1. The Elite app gives an over-all percentage (hovers around 50) for balance. However it does NOT split this up into individual L/R legs. So if you’re close like I am (48/52) and have the number hovering around 50, I have no idea which leg is laying out more power. This makes the whole thing sort of useless to me.
2. I enter the pedal analysis tool which looks like it takes control of the trainer and lets you pick the power level. I just want to over-lay this over my other apps, like sufferfest and use those. I’ll keep digging, maybe it’s possible to connect the Elite app to the power meter without control.
3. Using my Garmin to pick up the ANT+ Power meter (not connected as interactive trainer) – I set up some data fields for L/R balance since I wasn’t having much luck in the Elite app. The efficiency and torque effectiveness are not sent to the Garmin (not sure why).
But the L/R balance doesn’t seem at all accurate when sent to the Garmin. Even if I try to hammer with one leg, the balance still shows almost perfectly even…bounces between 48/52 to 50/50.
If anybody else has any advise or better luck I’d love to hear about it.
Just a follow-up on my previous note – I thought maybe it was the Garmin not processing the L/R balance, but after connecting a bike with a dual sided Power Meter, it seems like the ANT+ connection would rely on the power meter to already process the L/R balance, (unlike dual BLE connections which would let the head unit calculate).
Well,
I did my first ride on the Direto … or rather I tried:
link to prx.selfip.com
link to prx.selfip.com
this happened after a few seconds, not yet applying any significant power …
I tried putting back the belt where it belongs, but it held barely any longer.
Hi Sébastian, I have the same problem. What is your status ? I have a problem getting support from Elite.
Hi Rob,
I got a new one and so far so good. (I’ve ridden 600km in zwift, including a number of races and workouts).
I have one little concern, at certain speeds it does a little humming, but it’s not a real problem.
A few more information that may be of interest to ppl who, like me, were worried about the noise.
It is a bit noisy to my taste at high speed, but I use it mostly in ERG or resistance modes and it is *very* silent this way.
I’ve also put a thick mat underneath.
No complaints from the neighbors so far :)
One note though: the noise depends a lot on the room and the floor. I tried it in a different setup (without a mat, different house) and the noise was unbearably high…
underfloor space + tiling = bad
linoleum + anti vibration mat in my cramped apartment = much quieter
Thanks,
Well I have emailed ELITE about 10 times but sofar no solution. The shop doesn’t want to replace the unit and Elite doesn’t want to step up and send me a new one directly.
It’s the manufactures responsebility to recall the faulty ones with the lower specifications.
I don’t know where this ends but very pissed right now.
I contacted both Elite and Clever Training at about the same time.
Clever Training agreed to refund or replace the unit (although they’ve been less than exemplary on this..)
Elite answered that I contact the shop.
Sébastien, I’ve been emailing over and over but Elite insists that replacement is out of the question !
Many people got a new one but policy seem to have changed now.
I’m very dissapointed and not satisfied with the customer service.
I don’t know about others, but I got the replacement from CT (the shop). Elite’s customer service was useless as they are with you …
In case you really can’t get a replacement, maybe you can put back the belt. It’s fairly easy to disassemble.
Good luck …
I’ve read the belt tensioner is out of tolerance for the first produced series so putting back the belt is not going to help.
Rob,
That sucks, man….mine has been trouble free from the start I’ve only got about 400km on it but so far so good…
We’re you able to ascertain from the start that yours is an early iteration of the unit?
Mine had a date somewhere on it or buried in the literature that I mention somewhere in this thread….Dec. 27 if I’m not mistaken
I wouldn’t like to think that CT sent you one that THEY had gotten back from an earlier return…..
I would lean on them. Send Elite a severed horse head by DHA….
Hi Clayton, I’m now at email number 13
This morning Elite replied with ” The trainer is under repair, as soon as they will end the repair they will inform you.”
Well last time I checked the trainer was still sitting in my garage waiting for a reply from the shop !!!
It’ s ridiculous and I can’t beat the stress any longer.
Please HELP Elite I am a cancer patient who needs his trainer because I can’t go out on the street
Rob
PS. My trainer has a sticker saying it’s a September 2017
?
When did you buy/ receive it?
And you’re here in the states too….Right?
Is this trainer compatible with all derailleurs or are there restrictions if you can or can’t use Short or Long derailleurs?
I was wondering just to be clear about bike fit. I have 10 and 11 speed road bikes as well as a mountain bike with boost and disk brakes. Will they all fit? Thanks
Thanks for the awesome review DC, it lead me to buying this trainer. I’m looking forward to riding on Zwift here in a few short months after i return from my deployment overseas. Hopefully we can get a ride or two on Zwift and looking forward to more of your reviews on here and youtube! Keep doing what you’re doing and growing the cycling community.
Is there any reason to believe that this direct drive trainer would have a difficult time on power and cadence analysis with the use of Q rings?
I am seeing nonstop fluctuation in both power and cadence on the Direto compared to my P2M type S. If I hold a given wattage (within a 10 watt range) the Direto will bounce back and forth in a 60-80 watt range depending on the power output. The cadence is also fluctuating from 40s to 180 or higher. I have scoured the internet for advice and gone through trouble shooting with Elite CS but nothing has resolved the problem. Do you think this is a result of the Q rings? If so, do you know if the Kickr or Kickr Snap would not have the same problem? Thanks.
Hi Sam,
I use Q rings and haven’t noticed what you say. Definately not in cadence, while regarding power I do have some fluctuation, but I consider it normal. I always train in ERG Mode with Trainer Road, just so you know.
Juan,
Thanks for the reply. A couple of questions if you don’t mind.
What are you using as the circumference of your wheel?
Do you also use Zwift? I don’t use TR, but in Zwift if I free ride the until is controlled by the app, but in Erg mode it isn’t. That may be a result of the extreme power fluctuation and cadence fluctuation of 140rpm within seconds though.
Thanks.
Hey Ray, thank you so much for the review, definitely buying this soon, but here’s a question that only you can answer.
I’m buying for me and my girlfriend, she’s 11 speed, i’m 10 speed, will it work? or what should i do in this case?
Thanks in advance you legend!
Julian
They can both work, though you’ll need to change the cassette each time you guys swap.
Or you can put her 11 speed cassette on and I found in a pinch I was able to find a couple gears my 10 speed worked with ok and I just used those and adjusted the resistance with my head unit rather than switch gears.
Hi All,
I decided to compare my Direto to my Stages PM as I noticed I was struggling to hold my indoor interval target Wattages. The following set was recorderd after a 10min warm up and calibration of both Units.
link to analyze.dcrainmaker.com
As expected the Elite is reading to low ( or the stages to high?) by around 20Watts!
Looking at the Left/right ballance from the Elite, my left leg power seems a bit lower, which actually would make me expect the output of the Stages would be lower than the Elite Direto, not the other way around.
I’m I missing somthing here? I wrote Elite for support allready.
Next test will be a workout in ERG mode at tresshold to know the exact offset at around 300w
Anything else I could try? I have no acces to a 3rd powermeter.
Thanks!
Honestly, this looks pretty close to about right. I think you’ve got three things in play here:
A) Drive train losses: Assume about 2-4% here, depending on how clean your drivetrain is. So on 150w, that’s upwards of 6w or so.
B) Variants in left/right balance: With a Stages left-only unit, you may have a greater left imbalance (lower), which is what’s causing the gap. It’s exceedingly rare to have perfect 50/50 symmetry, most people have balance differences.
Unfortunately, without a 3rd power meter to compare against, it’s really hard to know for absolute certain. But the vast majority of people have found the Direto pretty accurate (and most have also found the left leg portion of Stages pretty accurate) – which would lead me to believe that since you calibrated and such, you’re probably looking at a combination of the two factors above.
Does anyone have any issues with Zwift seeing the Direto as a controllable trainer via ANT-FEC on iPads? I put the dongle in and it can see the Direto as a power meter via ANT+ but not see it as controllable. It has no problems controlling via BT, but I’d rather use ANT.
Hi Fabio ,
You guys are way ahead of me, but I’m 64 so I feel happy with the small achievements I’m earning. My question is related to the wheel circumference I’m using, not sure if I’m doing it right. See, I use a 29er 11 speed Trek Mountain Bike and the circumference (I’m measuring with the tires on) reads approx 2400 I/o a 2070 which seems to be the regular number the Direto app shows as a default. Am I measuring it up correctly? Also, for the Direto App I maintain the original number I/o dividing it for 12.1. I hope that’s right. Thanks!
Anyone else hearing an occasional squeaking noise from the Direto flywheel during warmup? Sounds like something needs oil. It continues when I pause pedaling so I don’t think it’s the cassette/chain (both installed new with unit) or the derailleur. It goes away after a few minutes. The unit has 25 hours of use so far with no water or sweat exposure
I have 1100K on mine thus far no issues…other than calibration # seems to drop about 2 from factory # every time I run it ( about monthly) but I’m guessing that’s just belt stretch….I’ve been riding outside of late but will be back on trainer for some climbs….so I’ll have a good listen then…..
Let you know if I hear anything new…..
Thanks. I think it’s something you’d notice immediatly. Sounds like something internal needs lubrication.
Update: I contacted Elite via their web site (also Clever Training which was my dealer). Elite’s person in Italy asked me for a video of the trainer in operation, which I supplied, and they are going to give me a warranty replacememt. Communications were fast and I am working with their US represenative.
Hi Ray,
Thanks for another great review. I was getting ready to buy the Direto because of your recommandation. With the Flux on sale ofor $720, would do you still prefer the Direto? I would like to have the increased accuracy with the Direto, but is it worth $180?
Thank you!
Hi Ray,
I am considering the Direto to replace a KK Fluid Trainer. The catch for me is that I keep my bike and trainer outdoors on a covered patio for most of the year (San Diego). The KK has been durable and I got over 10 years out of it. Will any of the direct drive models be able to handle sitting outside?
TIA
I think in general you’re going to see issues longer term with any electronic trainer in an outdoor situation, even covered (unless you lived in a super-dry place like Arizona). I’m not sure I’d find one more durable than others in that respective unfortunately. :-/
Hi
Thanks for the very thorough review. I am thinking of buying a direto but I really want pedal balance on a machine as well. How do I get that please. I am currently using a Watt Bike on a rent agreement which is ending.
Thanks
Hello Ray,
Maybe I just haven’t combed thru your site well enough, but do you have a primer on the mechanics of using Zwift? You skipped right over the “connections”!?! Never even seen anyone using it so it’s all in my imagination at the moment. I imagine there’s some kind of bluetooth link to a lappy or iPad. What about connecting our ‘smart TV’? I’m a bit time crunched on this. My trainer of choice has been rollers since 1983, and right now my cart at CleverTrainer has a Direto, a mat, a table, a wheel block, just waiting to hit place order. Been on a Cyclops a few times, so not a complete idiot about riding a trainer, but I’m going to need to maintain my fitness post rotator cuff repair (under the knife on Aug 7) and riding a trainer seems like the best bet for attempting that goal, definitely not rollers!
Thanks,
Skot
Since this review is from a year ago (2017) are you aware if Elite has made any changes to the 2018 unit or planning on doing so. Thanks for your great reviews Rainmaker!
I bought a March 2018 built unit a couple of weeks ago and unfortunately it had to go back. Main issue was some strange power figures, the training test gave me negative values and the raw data had some bizarre spikes. It also felt like it was under reading (just ditched my road power meter so no way to check) and my unit felt quite different when cold to warm. The cassette needed a spacer and I had some concerns over durability – the power supply plug hole did not feel that sturdy and plastic body felt a bit brittle/creaky.
The support from Elite for me at least was not positive. They say typical response to email support is 48 hours but I had nothing back so after 4 days I chased and got a garbled reply on the 5th about me using the trainer incorrectly.
I also tried their forum but the thread is still pending approval. Going on there and seeing their site admins hadn’t been on for weeks was not exactly confidence inspiring, I did email them directly in case user community could help but never got a reply.
Really disappointed with the product and their support, I am waiting now for the Wahoo KICKR Core in hope that will be better.
While browsing online bike stores, I noticed some store are also selling the Elite Direto+
According to the description: “The Direto+ includes a travelblock for the front wheel and the power measurement is 0.5% more accurate than the standard Direto”
Anyone knows about this product?
Clever Training is showing a listing for the Direto II. Any idea what the differences are – I can’t find any details on it other than what’s listed at Clever Training.
So steep and cheap has the Direto for $675 right now and the Drivo (original) for $743. Should I just pull the trigger on the Drivo? It’s a good price but will I see that much difference?
Just started using a Direto and an struggling with fe-c control: my Wahoo elemnt finds the direto as fitness equipment and sets up trainer pages. However, the direto seems to stay in passive mode: there is no difference to resistance, whichever mode, resistance level, or wattage I choose.
The green led for Ant+ connection is on when I go into calibration on the Elemnt, but blinks again (searching connection) when I return to the normal pages.
Has anybody encountered this and can advise?
Thanks
Two thoughts based on my Elite Qubo experience. 1) the device liked to only talk to one device at a time. Make sure it’s only talking to the Element. 2) Wahoo units only like talking to Wahoo trainers. I couldn’t calibrate my trainer with the Bolt. F-EC did work though. 3) Does it make a difference if you connect via Bluetooth or ANT+? Try deleting the unit and connecting to it with the Elemnt only using the menu, not the app.
Hi Ray, thanks once again for the awesome review. I am now a proud owner of an Elite Direto myself. It’s no Wahoo Kickr for sure but I’ll take it!
I have a question here. My current paincave setup for Zwift is iPad, Direto & bike.
After a workout, Zwift does a very decent job of uploading my workout to the various platforms.
I also have a Garmin 935. While my workout is clearly registered on Garmin Connect, my Watch says otherwise. I’m quite the numbers guy and would love to have my watch reflect my workout. I tried indoor cycling mode on the 935 and ended up with a distance of 160km (I only cycled 48km). Is there any way of using the 935 with indoor Cycling mode such that my devices are talking to one another so that I can have the same data throughout? Many thanks and apologies if this question has been asked umpteen times.
In theory, if you have Physio True-Up enabled, *and* if you have Zwift connect to Garmin Connect, it should pump data back to Garmin Connect, and some amount of data then back to your FR935. The amount of data I have to double-check where the line is exactly (it’s messy). I noticed the other day that it’s actually now pulling in workouts from Garmin Connect on certain watches, but I don’t now if it only does it for certain types.
It’s on my to-do list to dig into more deeply though (as it seems like it’s constantly changing).
Hi!
Just bought a Direto, and did my first intervals today. Just a couple of questions;
1. Setting targetpower to 340w, the power fluctuates a lot. Was using a edge 520 to set the target, and used a quarq to measure the power. I guess its a «smoothnes-configuration-issue» but the trainer adjusted the power kind of harsh. Was like hitting a wall if my cadens dropped, or if i stopped pedaling after the efforts. Is it possible to adjust this through the app?
2. Under «advanced configuration» in the elite-app, I find something called «power meter link», is this somehow a way to make the trainer adjust the target power from my quarq power-values instead of using the OTC? If I set the target values to 300w, I’m ending up with avg around 330-340w (calibrated both powermeters several times before and during workout, and achieved reasonable calibrationvalues). From your reviews it seems like the OTC-powermeter should be more than accurate enough to not miss this target by 10-12%? As far as I’m concerned this could have something to do with the smoothnes of the poweradjustment?
I was wondering what the weight limit is? I cannot find it anywhere on the internet including the companies website. Thanks!
Hi!
The Swift app does not recognize my Elite trainer.
Is there a way to fix that ?
Thank You
Are you using ANT+ or Bluetooth, and via PC/Mac or iPad/Android/Phone/etc?
Long time reader – first time posting. I have an Elito Direto. I have ridden it about 20x on Zwift and been really happy. My last ride was weird as it seemed the systems resistance was sporadic but I kind of muscled through it. After the ride, I tried to calibrate the direto and it wouldn’t allow me to. It just kept saying pedal faster and then eventually failed. I tried this 7-8x and just gave up. I am hoping this is just a glitch and that ill be riding zwift as well as during the first 19 rides. But it bothers me that it wont calibrate. Any suggestions?
That sounds a bit more like a connectivity glitch than anything else. Likely just something transient.
Typically if I see something like that I double-check that I haven’t changed anything in the area wifi-wise (like putting in a new router or such), and then usually just unplug the trainer and plug it back in, as well as turn on/off airplane mode on my phone/iPad/whatever to reset the communications stack. Between all three things, usually it fixes it.
Hi Mike,
Not sure if the same issue, but on my Direto the belt started to slip, which meant that the resistance was sporadic and I could feel the slip under hard load. To resolve this the internal belt needed to be tightened.
For information the ‘calibration’ figure on the bottom of the unit (might look like 6575 or similar) is actually affected/controlled by the belt tension. If the number drops, you need to UP the tension. I have done this a few months ago without to much of a problem.
However two weeks ago the problem reappeared, so then I tried to calibrate and the ‘offset’ value wasn’t changing. And then on a calibration cycle (where you pedal as per instruction) the belt completely snapped.
To Elite’s credit the local distributor in Australia called me (actually out of hours on a Friday) and sent me a link to this video.
link to youtube.com
Then when I replied on Monday (after opening the unit and checking it was in fact the belt), they sent out a new belt and pulley. Which I was able to fit without too much hassle. I have only done one ride since then, but it seems to be all good. (Hoping to use the DC Analyser to confirm accuracy with P1 pedals)
Hope you don’t have a belt issue, but if you do it is not too hard to resolve.
So frustrating! Used the Direto again today and the power is spiking up and down. I have plugged everything in and out/ turned wifi on and off and still the same. Totally sucks as I was looking forward to a ling workout today. Any other suggestions? Using ANT+, changed wheel circ to 173 as outlined in GPlama and the manual. I was able to eventually get it to calibrate but only with wheel circumference at 2070. Help!
Mike,
Mine was unridable but with the new Zwift update I diconnected everything re calibrated and tightened belt back to factory spec and it SEEMED…OK…. if maybe still too easy….I need to ride again and see if things are back to normal…
FWIW I run zwift hardwired thru my iMac mirrored to a 55” tv…and run the companion ap on iPad….so my wireless is not an issue….the Bluetooth seems to have been.
How are you running yours…?
Mike, I have been experiencing the same thing. Power reading jumping around like crazy and also resistance going up and down on even grade and constant cadence. I tried everything I could to fix. But now I am in contact with Elite in Italy. They had me do a test using the mytraining App. There is no solution yet as they are looking at the data. But they did say they never heard of this issue. May I suggest everyone having this issue contact Elite Customer Service and report the issue. This way they are aware of the problem and perhaps come up with a solution to resolve it.
Robert,
Have you had any resolution with Elite? I have been very frustrated dealing with them. We are going on 3 weeks with this issue. Their response is lacking but we are at point that they feel it is the electronic board. I have asked for next steps but they have not emailed me back. I finally called them on Friday and got a message saying it was a local holiday. UGH! I will keep trying but wondered if you had any further luck.
In the meantime, using ZWIFT workouts with ERG on seems to allow me to work out for a few workouts without too much fluctuation as ZWIFT seems to want to normalize the resistance to ensure tyou are working out in the correct power zone. I will try again today and hope it works.
Bottom line – very disappointed – hoping it works like it did for my first 10 rides.
Mike
For a few months I’ve had a bit of occasional loud clicking from the Direto.
I had retightened the frewheel cassette hub etc but the noise was noticeable on inclines and standing on the pedals with a high gear or low cadence high power.
On occasion I would have to lighten my force on the pedals when the noise occurred afraid I would break something.
Anyway today I have totally lost resistance and cadence.
On looking inside the casing I can see that the belt has snapped.
The belt has cracks in it all along one side- Is this what happens when it wears or does it show a fault with the Direto?
I also noticed that the large grey freewheel has quite a bit of play or side to side movement. Is this normal, have others noticed play in the large grey freewheel when their belt has snapped?
I have contacted Elite support last week but I have not had any response. The Direto is 13 months old and all I want to know is from Elite or others here is the side to side movement of the large grey wheel normal – and do I just need to order another belt from Elite.
Thanks for any response
Yes, I had exactly the same problem. However because my Direto was only 7 months old they sent me the spare parts as per attached. Once I fixed it it came right back to normal. Utube has a video(you can scan QR code from the pic I attached) where they show how to replace it. Don’t forget to update and offset your Direto as per number located on the bottom of your trainer. Each one has a different number. Mine is 6337 , for example!
Thank you for your reply. I have ordered the parts from their website earlier today, still no response from them though.
The large grey wheel that the belt goes round did you notice, with the belt removed, if it had side to side movement?
As mine does move from side to side quite a bit.
Thanks
The large grey wheel of my DIRETO does not seem to have that problem you’re mentioning. Perhaps ELITE will advise you to replace that wheel as well.
Have you tried your local seller for the spare parts you’re ordering? Maybe they carry such parts and you won’t have to order them from Italy!
My Direto, also 13 months old – snapped belt. But this is the second time the belt has snapped. First time after just 4 1/2 months. Another observation is that my FTP varied widely pre and post that first repair – more than 10% so I’m beginning to question the accuracy of the trainer.
Hi, I have got a question about your accuracy analysis that you performed. I have found that my Elite Direto reads about 15 to 20 watts lower than my Stages (single sided), and even a bit lower still than my Quarq (dual), in certain situations. The stages and the quarq seem to be relatively consistent except at high power after a long time, which I always attributed to my right-side dominance becoming more pronounced as fatigue sets in. I regularly calibrate the Elite and do a zero offset on the other two PMs every time i ride.
I thought that this was normal for the Elite to measure lower than the crank-based PMs because of efficiency loss in the system, i.e. the fact that it measures at the “wheel” (virtually) rather than at the crank. But, is this correct? You don’t seem to have this discrepancy in all of your files, so I’m wondering if maybe, one or more of my devices needs to be serviced.
Thank you!
Has anyone had issues with the quick release and NDS endcap with standard 130mm frames? I just got a Zumo (my girlfriend has the Direto) and neither my Cannondale Supersix Evo or Cevelo P2 will adequately clamp using the QR. It’s like the NDS endcap is too long. I end up having to use the 5mm spacer on the outside of the dropout in order for it to clamp using the QR (see attached photo). I’m about to reach out to Elite, but wondered if anyone else had issues. Thanks!
My v1 Drivo explicitly states to use the spacer on the outside of the dropout for a normal 130mm QR set-up – perhaps this is a common design feature.
Thanks! I went back and looked at the directions and see what you mean. The directions for the Elite trainers aren’t exactly the easiest to follow, but they do cover like 50 million languages…
How do you like the Zumo this far?
I really like the Zumo thus far. I came from having an old Computrainer and like the Zumo much better. My girlfriend has the Direto and I honestly can’t tell the difference from the Zumo. I’m not putting out 1000 watts, so I have no idea how this would work for someone bigger and stronger, but it fits my needs.
Seems like a dated post, just hoping someone would still respond!I was planning to buy one in the states and ship it with me as I travel back to my home country. What are the dimensions/weight of the box, plus is the packing good enough to ship it in the airlines ?
Hi Raj,
Mine came in a box that fit the original box. I would contact Elite or whoever you’re planning on buying from for the dimensions and weight.
After One month of use the resistance doesnt work….
I am the proud owner of a Direto with loud version stepper-motor.
It’s a solid unit imo.
The only “issues” are the noticeable lag of 15-20 seconds in reaction to adjusting its power levels to Erg interval power changes in TrainerRoad and Zwift, and about a 4 second delay in Zwif game mode to slope changes. Both of these “issues” are not deal-breakers for me.
The deal breaker issue for me is that annoying bleeping beep beeep beeeep beep beep constantly, as the loud version stepper-motor attempts to re-adjust itself to maintain the desired power at the pedals.
To be fair, if one constantly maintains drivetrain speeds of >25 mph, it helps camouflage the bleeping beeping.
And no, increasing my fan speed (not really necessary, if I open the window during winter indoor trainer season anyways) or turning up the music volume to drown out a loud annoying noise with mega decibels of extra noise, is not my idea of a solution. So I will sell my unit to someone who has no issues blasting music away during all their workouts.
Elite’s customer service response to another loud Direto owner’s request (on a UK Timetrialling website) to exchange the loud Direto unit is below:
Good Afternoon
We have produced Direto with two different stepping motor one of them with the noise level that there is in the video you sent me
Both of them are completely approved by us, so the noise of the trainer from the video you have sent me is completely in tolerance with our standard for that type of internal motor (and in anyway there is no possibility to reduce the noise)
I remain at disposal
Regards
Andrea Brotto
R&D Electronic Dept.
Elite_it
Elite Srl
via Fornaci 4, 35014 Fontaniva – Padova – Italy +39.049 5940044
M andrea.brotto@elite-it.com http://www.elite-it.com
Oops, here’s the UK Time-trialing website: link to timetriallingforum.co.uk
And another: link to youtube.com
Ray,
Can you confirm that Elite trainer firmware can not be updated using the Elite app. Can’t find a confirmation on this other than one Youtube video noted it.
In the review of the tacx flux 2 you stated that they had improved the gradient control speed down so its not a ridiculous figure like 40 or 50 kph. is that an issue with the direto or the kickr core even?
thanks matt
Hi, in your tacx flux 2 review you mentioned the gradient /speed control was much better, down from 50kph or somethng silly. is that the case with the direto or the kickr core even?
Thanks for all the great info. Ok, looking to get either Elite Direto II, or Tacx Flux II. Not a huge wattage guy here, better climbing abilities. Like the idea of accuracy too, but not much difference between the two. Recommendations? Thanks.
Colin
Hi Ray –
I was ready to pull the trigger on the Suito for my second trainer (it will live in storage about half the year and be used in a long-stay hotel when I am working away from home)
NOW I see the Direto II being sold at $649 at Clever Training. They appear to about the same weight. I’ll be hooking up a 10-speed Salsa Vaya if that matters since I cannot use the cassette included with the Suito. Whatcha think? Is the Suito worrth the month wait and $150?
The Direto II is honestly a better trainer than Suito in terms of power accuracy and most specs. ERG mode is a little bit faster on Suito, but if you use the right gearing combo (small ring in front) you won’t notice. Suito is more compact for storage, but if that doesn’t matter, then I’d pickup the deal.
Cheer!
Thanks Ray! I’ll likely never notice the ERG mode difference based on how much I currently ride on my home trainer (KICKR Core). This model hits the sweet spot for my needs I think.
Ray –
Quick follow-up questions. I’ve now read all the comments here and am curious what you know about the Direto II and noise. I am guessing it is not an issue, but since I’ll be using it in a hotel, it’s more of a concern than when I use my KICKR Core in my garage. I get the impression that the noise is no worse than my TV with Zwift or a movie and some music. I was curious if they stopped sourcing the offending motor for the quiet one.
My other question is do you think it’ll be a clean transition between it and my Core for TrainerRoad or Zwift ERG workouts. That is the main purpose for me buying it. I want to maximize my ability to train while away from home.
Thanks for all you do.
Tim
Noise level wise it’s the same as before (1 vs 2), no difference there. The printer noise people talked about is long since gone from production, so no worries on that (and it’s not something that you’d have heard through rooms anyway).
Noise-wise is definitely less than a TV/movie. The main issue you’ll have with (any) trainer and ‘neighbors’ tends to be more vibrations than anything else. being on carpet/towel/mat helps a bunch. Unless your hotel is really old or with bad soundproofing, you won’t have any issues.
Hi Ray,
I am really interested in how the Direto stacks up in relation to your recent comment about Flux 2 “Most trainers aren’t really designed to handle very low speeds at high gradients. So the mid-range trainers and lower end trainers especially suffer here, and can’t hold the inclines they say at the lower speeds. For example, the Flux 1 can technically hold 15% grade…but only if you were going 50KPH” What is the lowest speed that the Direto can maintain is maximum grade of 14%?
Hi Ray, Ignore my previous post. I found all the information on the power vs slope question buried in the middle of the thread. I just need to look for longer!
I’ve had my Direto for 18 months or so….I wouldn’t say 12-18° actually feels REAL…BUTit does feel consistent
Hey Ray–I’m loving my Direto II and using Rouvy and an old ipad IV (No usb). Any suggestions as to how I can easiy get my HR to show on the Rouvy application? It displays on the Garmin 520 plus head unit fine (Garmin HR band–the standard black unit).
Unfortunately with an iPad and an older Garmin strap there isn’t a good way to do that since the iPad can’t read ANT+, and the older Garmin strap doesn’t do Bluetooth Smart.
You could get a converter pod (like the NPE Cable), but honestly you’re gonna spend more for that than just picking up a dual ANT+/BLE strap like the Wahoo TICKR.
Well after slightly over 2 years, Direto refuses to adjust resistance or do anything in ERG, thankfully the resistance seems to be locked into a mode where I can still row through the gears and hit targets.
Contacted Elite, let’s see what they say.
Stepper motors no longer make any sounds when starting or anytime.
Tacx Vortex Smart still going strong after 4.5 years. Direto barely made it 2years.
Hi Ray,
Having read this review as well as some of your others including the trainer guide for 2019-2020 and the Elite Suito, my question is this: Here in South Africa the Elite supplier has both the Suito and the Direto (seems like the Direto, not Directo X from their website) for the exact same price. Which would you choose between them given the same price?
Thanks in advance.
Hi.
Thanks for being arguably the best sports gear reviewer in the biz. Never a stone unturned.
Im about to purchase a used Direto.
I have no experience with powermeters and probably i shouldn’t even consider worrying about this, but lets say it turns out I can hit 1500W at 40kph. What happens then? I break the trainer?
1,400W @ 40KPH / 2,200W @ 60KPH
How does that work? What about “standing start” max efforts? Are these forbidden?
Thanks again for your hard and tedious work!
Generally speaking when you go beyond that amount it simply doesn’t provide meaningful resistance and either you feel a bit of slippage (wheel-on trainers), or simply don’t feel like you’re pushing anything more.
There’s nothing forbidden per se. The trainer won’t break or anything.
For example, today I was testing the budget-focused Tacx Flow Smart ($349/249EUR). When I went beyond the 800w limit, it basically doesn’t provide resistance beyond that. It’s almost identical feeling to running out of gears in the real world outside.
Hi there , nice to meet you.
I have an Elite Flux since some weeks ago with really good results and accuracy using Zwift and Rouvy and no issues yet.
So it happens that now I also have an Elite Directo ( long story ) and today just tried to calibrate / set up with the Elite App and just went for some minutes to Zwfit for a try.
What´s happening is while been paired succesfully by Bluetooth to Zwift then while riding the Direto is having the green light blinking and annoying beep …what´s going on ?
Thanks a lot in advance.
The cable is so short. I want to buy an extension cable but don’t know the dimensions of the connector. Does anyone know?
Isn’t it easier to buy a standard extension from the wall to the Direto transformer?
I have my reasons. Do you know the dimensions or are you wasting my time?
I had to replace my adapter after it broke and I measured the plug dimensions with a caliper. That worked for me.
Sorry,I don’t know them off by heart anymore.
“I have my reasons. Do you know the dimensions or are you wasting my time?”
Generally speaking, it’s a good idea to not be an ass when you’re asking for help.
I was just thinking the same thing!
Ha! I was thinking that it was an unnecessarily polite measured response.
Hi folks,
Has anyone found a solution to the Direto not playing nice with the Elemnt Bolt where using the wheel circumference of 0.174 results in very slow speed readings. It often reads correctly initially until you hit past 33kph then for some crazy reason it drops to like 2-3kph.
Neither Elite or Wahoo have provided a solution but the last time I checked in with them was almost a year ago.
It sucks not being able to re-ride previous recorded courses on my Bolt at the proper speed.
Thx in advance!