Earlier this summer Elite launched four new trainers/rollers, and in doing so greatly simplified their trainer lineup. Previous to that they had enough trainers to allow each member of the Brady Bunch both a primary and backup trainer. Never mind the fact that they were confusingly named. However, now things are super-simple and nice and tidy.
The Elite Drivo (pronounced Drive-oh) is their top-end trainer. It’s direct drive (meaning, you take off your rear wheel), and it’s fully electronically controlled. They’ve upped numerous specs on it compared to past trainers, most notably around accuracy. I’ve had the trainer since July, and have had a fair bit of time using and testing it. And overall, I’ve come away quite impressed on a number of levels.
As usual, I’ll note that Elite sent me the trainer as a loaner to try out. Also like usual, I’ll be sending it back to them upon completion of this review. That’s just the way I roll. If you found the review useful, you can pickup the Elite Drivo and other gadgets from Clever Training at the bottom of this review. In doing so DCR Readers save 10% and support the site. Plus, you’ll get free US shipping. Win-win!
With that – onto the trainer!
What’s in the box:
I got shipped one of the first production Drivo’s off the line back in July, but at the time they were still waiting for the outer cardboard printing sleeve to arrive from the printers. So I got the equivalent of carrying a bottle of whisky in a brown bag to conceal it’s true identity. No worries, I’m reasonably certain a printed sleeve won’t impact accuracy.
You can see it’s serial number 130, which also aligns to the ANT+ ID too.
Once cracking open the box you’ll find an upper shelf full of smaller parts. Typically you don’t get a cassette in there, but they included one just in case I didn’t have one handy. I’ll talk more about that later.
After removing the shelf (which also contains the feet seen above), you’ll see the trainer below:
It’s easiest to just pick up the whole kit like a small dog and take it out of the box. Once done, you’ll have this tidy little picture:
Just to recap on the parts list, we’ll run through them all. First up is the feet, which allow you to adjust height of the trainer above the ground by rotating the feet into different positions.
Next we’ve got the power supply:
Then there’s doohickies for the cassette and different axle standards. Plus a standard ANT+ USB key.
Following that we’ve got Elite’s software, if you so choose to use it.
Then there’s the cadence sensor. That’s optional, but it’s there if you want it.
Finally, the unit itself:
Don’t worry, you’ll get a zillion shots of that trainer by the time this review is done.
Lastly, while not in the box, I know folks will be looking for specs like max wattage and stuff. All of those can be found later in this review in that comparison table section you see. It’s the part of the post that looks like it had a Tinder date with Microsoft Excel.
Setting it up:
The setup process is pretty easy and painless, only taking a few minutes once you get the cassette on it.
First up is installing the cassette on it. As many DCR readers know, this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine with (some) direct drive trainers that lack a cassette on them. This means that you not only need a cassette, but also the handful of tools to install said cassette. The cassette itself will run you between $50-$100 for a run of the mill Shimano Ultegra variant. You can install any of the major cassette types (Shimano 9/10/11 speed, plus an adapter for campy), so this does give you flexibility.
However, companies like Wahoo simply include it already installed on their KICKR lineup, simplifying setup. Beyond the cassette purchase, you’ll need tools – which will run you another $10-$30 depending on where you source them. Long term as a semi-serious cyclist you’ll undoubtedly use these again, so they aren’t a waste. Plus, your cycling buddies & buddettes might use them as well.
I suppose I could have done that step last, but, I just wanted to get it out of the way. Next, we’ll take out the feet and plunk them on the lower leg:
Next we’ve got the little red knob that locks the lower leg in place. Plus there’s also a red lever just behind the red Elite sticker. That’s a secondary lock for the upper leg.
Once that’s all done, you’re ready to roll!
Usage Basics:
Using the Drivo is quite frankly silly simple. You mount your bike and you pedal. I mean, basically, that’s it. Of course, I can’t just write that as you’d expect a wee bit more detail on what happens when you pedal.
Now the trainer sorta folds up for easier storage. Not so much under-the-bed flat storage, but more like vertical closet storage. The ‘foot’ will rotate under it and then align parallel with it. Here’s the Jenny Craig before and after photos:
There’s also that handle up top, making it easy to carry the unit around.
It has two safety systems on the unit, a small red locking lever as well as a bigger red rotating knob. Both ensure that you’ve got it locked in place before pedaling. If you forget to lock one (I mean, just a hypothetical, not saying that it happened or anything while filming one day – again, purely hypothetical), then it’ll simply slump forward when you get on the bike. That’s your cue that you should get some coffee.
Once all that’s done, it’s time to get it plugged in. The Drivo does require power, as it doesn’t have a built-in power curve or self-generation for unpowered use (only a handful of electronic trainers do; such as the Wahoo KICKR/KICKR2, Tacx NEO, and Tacx Bushido). The power cord is dual voltage 120/240V, so it’ll work anywhere in the world. You’d just need a $1-$3 power adapter if you’re using it in a different country than you bought it from:
Once plugged in you’ll instantly hear the resistance unit moving inside the trainer. It’s oddly this beautifully reassuring sound that all is happy in trainer land. You’ll also get the LED lights illuminated at the rear of the trainer. One for power, one for ANT+ connectivity, and one for Bluetooth Smart connectivity:
Once powered on, the unit is instantly ready to ride. There’s actually no calibration of the unit, nor roll-down process for it. It’s basically identical to the higher end Tacx NEO trainer in that regard. Attempting to send a calibration command to it from an app (or via FE-C) just results in a confused blank stare from the trainer. It’s basically saying: “I don’t need none of that peasantry roll-down stuff, I’m self-calibrated 100% of the time”. Roughly.
The main purpose of buying a resistance controlled trainer is of course the ability to automatically control resistance and power levels. This typically takes two common forms:
ERG Mode: Setting a specific power level – i.e. 225w. In this mode, no matter what gearing you use, the trainer will simply stay at 225w (or whatever you set it to). Simulation Mode: Simulating a specific outdoor grade – i.e. 5% incline. In this mode, it’s just like outdoors in that you can change your gearing to make it easier or harder. Wattage is not hard-set, only incline levels.
There are variants of these that different trainer control protocols utilize, but basically everything gets back to one of those two ways of controlling a trainer. From a usage standpoint, different apps will focus on different things. For example, Zwift in regular mode will be setting the incline/grade, while TrainerRoad and Zwift in workout mode will be using ERG to set specific wattages.
When it comes to ‘road-like feel’, it’s always fairly subjective. But essentially people are looking at the inertia and how it feels – primarily when you accelerate or otherwise change acceleration (such as briefly coasting). A key driver of this is the flywheel size. Be it physical or virtual, flywheel sizes tend to be measured in weight. In general, the larger the flywheel size the more road-like feel. Elite’s Drivo has two listed sizes, one is the actual flywheel size (6KG/13.2LBS), while the second is the replicated flywheel size. This is because with it’s two-belt system, it actually doubles-down on that replicated feeling in the same way pulleys or levers make it easier to move a heavier load.
For me personally, it’s hard to separate the fact that I’m riding indoors from outdoors. It’s still a trainer, and I’m still looking at a wall in front of me. My brain can only turn that off so much. Overall I think the unit’s got a pretty good road-like feel. I’m not sure if it’s the absolute best out there (trying to compare them all over time is near impossible), but it’s pretty solid.
Now it used to be that you’d use apps by trainer companies to control your trainer. But these days that’s far less common. Sure, companies like Elite, Tacx and others do make trainer apps. But the vast majority of consumers go with the vast collection of 3rd party trainer apps.
I’ll be releasing my detailed trainer app guide later this fall which will highlight virtually every offering in the space. Here’s the previous edition for those that are curious. With that, let’s talk standards.
App & Protocol Support:
The Drivo supports all of the main trainer transmission and control protocols used across the board in the industry today by virtually every trainer company.
This means that it’ll transmit across ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart, while also allowing resistance control across ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart. Resistance control is what enables apps to specify what resistance level the trainer is at, such as wattage and slope.
The Elite Drivo supports the following broadcast and control standards:
ANT+ FE-C Control: This is for controlling the trainer via ANT+ from apps and head units. Read tons about it here. ANT+ Power Meter Profile: This broadcasts as a standard ANT+ power meter ANT+ Speed/Cadence Profile: This broadcasts your speed and cadence as a standard ANT+ Speed/Cadence combo sensor Bluetooth Smart Control: This uses the Elite variant of BLE control, the same as their other BLE controllable trainers. There is no BLE trainer control standard, each company does their own thing. Bluetooth Smart Power Meter Profile: This broadcasts as a standard BLE power meter Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence Profile: This broadcasts your speed and cadence as a standard BLE combo Speed/Cadence sensor
Within these standards you can basically control or connect to the Drivo from just about any 3rd party app or device out there. If an app doesn’t support one of these protocols, it probably sucks horribly. Zwift, TrainerRoad, Kinomap and dozens more support these. As do head units like Garmin, Wahoo, Lezyne, Stages, and more. The power of using standards! No pun intended.
In my usage of the Drivo, I’ve utilized it with: Garmin Edge 520, Garmin Edge 820, Edge 1000, Zwift, Wahoo Fitness app, and TrainerRoad. It’s probable I’ve also connected with other devices I can’t remember. I didn’t experience any issues with any of those devices or apps. Note though that the Garmin devices in FE-C mode will offer to complete a calibration of the device, though, the Elite Drivo will ignore it since it doesn’t accept calibration commands. So don’t worry when nothing happens there.
Sound Levels:
So how loud is this tower of power?
Not loud at all.
In fact, it’s rather quiet. But it’s not silent.
Elite has tapered expectations a bit on sound levels compared to years past with their Real Turbo Muin trainers that were pretty quiet, except for the sound of fluid whirling around. There’s quite simply moving belts and stuff moving around in this trainer, something that can be seen in the below internals of the trainer without a shell:
Still, it’s pretty darn quiet. To give you a feel for things, I’ve put together this video with the sound levels. As with any sound level tests, there’s a lot of variants. I outlined all these in my KICKR review, but I figure it’s worthwhile noting here again. There are a massive number of environmental factors that truly do have a huge impact:
– The room materials (which can make trainers quieter or louder due to echo, noise dampening, etc…)
– The size of the room
– The exact distance of the camera and/or decibel meter
– The mode of the decibel meter
– The type of mics used
– The sound levels of the mics used
– The exact position of the mics relative to different sides of the trainer
– How the mics capture different tones
– How I edited the audio (normalized levels)
– The speed of the trainer
– The cleanliness of the drivetrain on your bike
– The shifting accuracy (tuning) of your bike’s drive train
– Whether or not I remembered to turn on the @#$@# mics
– And other items I’m likely forgetting
Any one of these items can make the entire trainer sound dramatically different.
With that, here’s the Elite Drivo sound level videos:
Perhaps upon my return from Interbike I’ll do one comparing it head to head with the new KICKR (aka KICKR2). I’d say that between those I’d probably give the slight edge to the Elite Drivo in terms of sound (being quieter), but it’s not a huge difference.
Accuracy Testing:
Next up we’ve got power accuracy testing. This is one area that I’ve given Elite a hard time on in the past, as the Real Turbo Muin trainers that I’ve previously tested have been both slow to respond, as well as inaccurate in their response. Elite released a firmware update this past winter (Feb 2016) that addressed some of that responsiveness. But it would take adding a power meter to the actual unit itself (Drivo & Kura) to get better accuracy. You can see the power meter here:
The unit doesn’t use strain gauges, thus there’s no need for temperature compensation. Instead, they measure a time delay between two sets of teeth within the sensor. By measuring this time delay they can determine the exact amount of torque being applied to the sensor (graphic below from Elite).
By using optical sensors to determine the measurement, they’re able to avoid any temperature issues – since it doesn’t impact optical measurement. They dive into this a bit more in an e-mail to me explaining the technology and some questions that have come up around temperature compensation (geek-fest ahead):
“We’ve no temperature compensation. In fact, there is no need of temperature compensation as we’re not using strain gauges, where temperature is a critical point. We measure a time delay of the teeth of the sensor. The sensor measures the time delay between two series of teeth, as this delay is proportional to the torque applied to the sensor as each series of teeth is applied to one end of the axle.
The temperature variation doesn’t affect the reading of the teeth as measurement is performed from optical sensors (we use 2 optical sensor to read the same time delay to reduce further the errors). This differs from the “normal” power meters or trainers that measures the current that flows through a resistance (normally on strain gauges for power-meters or coils for trainers). In fact the electrical resistance is very sensitive to temperature variation so the temperature compensation is important.
Actually, the temperature variation may deform the mechanical dimensions of the teeth, but the teeth deformation due to the temperature is very limited as they are made with a very stable steel. Moreover the temperature affects the 2 series of the teeth in the same way and this neutralizes the deformation effect.
Furthermore the Drivo has been designed positioning the sensor far from the brake, where the temperature is generated. So the sensor doesn’t “suffer” the heat generated from the brake and work at stable temperature. For this reasons, the temperature doesn’t affect the accuracy of the trainer.”
In fact, very few trainers actually have power meters in them. Most do calculations based on other factors to get accurate results. Either method is perfectly acceptable, as long as the end resultant is accurate. While visiting Elite’s factory back in June, I got to take a look at their power meter testing machine, which is outlined in the below video with a Drivo on the stand. Every trainer that leaves the factory gets put on this machine to validate accuracy.
However, Elite actually went one step further: They sent out the trainer to an independent German laboratory (Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB) for testing and certification of their accuracy claims. That laboratory performed some form of step based testing against a calibrated industrial ergometer (the specific test details are kinda fuzzy*, though they seem like they’re roughly going in the direction of what I’d like to see):
“Tests were performed in two phases:
– Phase one at constant 130 RPM and gradual increase of resistance with steps of 50W
– Phase two at constant 50 RPM and gradual increase of resistance with steps of 40W”
Below is the machine that did that validation (photo provided by Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt, via Elite):
That resulted in them being awarded a nifty 1% accuracy validation certificate. Below is said certificate (click to expand):
Now regular DCR readers know that fancy certificates don’t get you very far here. Sure, it’s good to see and certainly better than nothing at all. But I feel like real-world testing is often a far better indicator of actual performance. Putting a variable human rider on a bike often yields different results than a perfected automated test machine. As does different applications and test patterns.
In my case I was looking to see how it reacted in two core apps: Zwift and TrainerRoad. The actual apps don’t much matter (at all), but rather the use cases are different. In Zwift you get variability by having the road incline change and you being able to instantly sprint. This reaction time and accuracy are both tested here.
Whereas in TrainerRoad I’m looking at its ability to hold a specific wattage very precisely, and to then change wattages instantly in a repeatable way. There’s no better test of that than 30×30 repeats (30-seconds at a high resistance, followed by 30 seconds at an easy resistance). Previously Elite would fail this test (miserably) with the Real Turbo Muin pre-firmware update, as the unit would take too long to change wattage.
So, how did the Drivo fare? Quite well I must say. Below is a graph of that when compared against two other power meters on the bike at the same time (a Quarq RIKEN and PowerTap P1 pedals). You can click here to view the files in the analyzer, as well as download the original files.
Seriously, the above is a beautiful graph, especially tracking against the hard efforts and recovery. The only point you see any variation is for about three seconds after the final interval. This is interestingly because in my TrainerRoad test workout (seen two screenshots above), I’ve got a 1-second error that I’m too lazy to fix in the workout editor. It spikes the power, which the Drivo actually correctly picks up for the briefest of moments. The other two barely notice it.
You’ll notice that the points in which the resistance goes from 150w to 470w happen within about 3 seconds, though it gets to 450w in two seconds, so it just stabilizes that final 20w in the last second. You actually don’t want it to change instantly (sub-1-second), as that’s like hitting a brick wall. You can see this below when I remove the smoothing from the display, to 0-second smoothed. Each vertical line is one second:
Next, here’s a longer and more variable workout, this time using FE-C. Once again you see solid agreement during these longer intervals, with a caveat I’ll talk about below the picture. Analyzer link here.
Note that on the workout I was having some sort of dropouts on one of the recording devices for the Drivo, so you see those random bumps out the bottom in the above smoothed plot by the Drivo. If I remove the smoothing you see the obvious drops. I’ve got a lot of connectivity in the cave, and sometimes this sort of thing happens. I certainly wouldn’t blame this on the Drivo. Also of note is that it did not loose connectivity at any point from a control standpoint (as you can see where the Quarq maintains wattage).
And finally, here’s a session on Zwift, which is all about having variability within the ride file. As you can see here, it lines up quite well again. Here’s the analyzer link as well.
Seriously, another plot of beauty. Getting three power meters to agree this perfectly with zero drift is really darn difficult.
Note in particular if I zoom in on one of my sprints, that all of the power meters agree within 1.6% (end to end range), or basically a normal amount I’d expect given the differing and combined stated accuracy claims of each power meter. The P1 and Drivo agree within 0.2%.
Thus essentially, my findings are consistent with the claims that Elite has made around accuracy being pretty tight. This is in the same ballpark and accuracy that folks tend to see with the Tacx NEO as well.
(Note: All of the charts in these accuracy sections were created using the DCR Analyzer tool. It allows you to compare power meters/trainers, heart rate, cadence, speed/pace, GPS tracks and plenty more. You can use it as well, more details here.)
Trainer Comparison:
So which trainer is your best bet? Well, that’s an extremely complex topic. One that I dedicate an entire post on each year as part of my annual trainer recommendations guide. That guide typically comes out in late September or early October. The exact date is usually driven by when I get semi-final versions of new trainers from various companies to do at least preliminary testing on. At this point I have ridden every trainer coming out this season, but some were of varying degrees of beta/prototype state. Here’s where I currently stand on that riding effort for this season’s trainers:
Wahoo KICKR2: Rode final production version, review here Elite Drivo: Rode final production version, this is that review (duh) Elite Rampa: Rode pre-prod version, have production version on way to me with courier CycleOps Hammer: Rode very early prototype version, latest prototype has moderate changes, looks like early October for review unit CycleOps Magnus: Currently have prototype version, expecting production version early October Tacx Flux: Rode both early and late prototype versions, expecting production version for review in late September Kinetic Smart Control Trainer: Rode near-final prototype version, expecting production version in for review mid-late September
There are of course other non-electronically controlled trainers, but that’s the gist of things. I’ve talked extensively about trainer selection and where it stands today, most recently in the Zwift Community Podcast (for an hour). I’d give that a listen. But essentially right now if you’re looking for a high end trainer with the most accuracy the best options are the KICKR2, Drivo, and NEO, with the Drivo and NEO having the highest accuracy levels. At this point, nothing is changing my mind that the best overall trainer right now is the Tacx NEO – purely due to a combination of noise (almost nothing), features (stuff like road patterns), and accuracy (very solid). But, it’s also the priciest in most markets, so…you get what you pay for there.
However, if you can wait a few weeks and we can see what the accuracy levels of the Tacx Flux is – that could be the best bang for the buck trainer this season. We’ll have to wait and see.
In any case, I’ve added the Elite Drivo to the product comparison tables. For the purposes of below, I’ve compared it to the Wahoo KICKR2, CycleOps Hammer, and Tacx NEO. But you can make your own comparison tables here, and compare it against any trainers I’ve ridden:
Overall I’m very impressed with the direction that Elite has gone here. Over the last 12-18 months they’ve completed their convergence onto industry standards, as well as consolidated their higher end trainer lineup. Both moves make the company and their products far more consumer friendly.
But more importantly than that, they’ve released a solid trainer in the Drivo. It’s best in class when it comes to accuracy, rivaling any consumer trainer on the market (and quite frankly, besting virtually all of them except the one it matches: NEO). It’s easy to setup, and easy to use.
Now of course it’s not 100% silent, but the trainer that is costs $300 more. But it’s pretty darn quiet. It falls into the camp of ‘your fan is probably louder than the trainer’, which is the most oft-forgotten reality of training indoors: A fan to keep you cool. Still, trainer noises resonate (literally) with different people in different ways.
Finally, note that Elite has actually been shipping Drivo units since late July to retail outlets. Obviously availability is still slim, but the trainers are out there somewhere. Meanwhile, the next product I’ll test from them is their mid-range entrant this year, the Rampa trainer, which costs less than half as much but has dramatically different specs. Oh, and if you were wondering about Kura, it’s very similar to the Drivo, except that it’s missing one key spec compared to the Drivo: The ability to control the trainer. It just broadcasts your power/speed only, but does so with the same exact power meter as Drivo.
Thanks for reading!
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Hopefully you found this review/post useful. At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love). As you probably noticed by looking below, I also take time to answer all the questions posted in the comments – and there’s quite a bit of detail in there as well.
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Since the Elite Drivo II is no longer sold, I recommend looking at Elite Direto XR:
This is a super basic trainer mat, which is exactly what you'll see me use. All it does is stop sweat for getting places it shouldn't (it also helps with vibrations too).
I use Apple TV for Zwift the vast majority of the time, but also just for watching YouTube/Netflix/etc on the trainer. The Apple TV remote sucks though. This $8 case fixes that, it's a silicone strap that makes it easy to grab, but also has a strap to easily place on the edge of your handlebars. Boom! Note: Not compatible with 2021 Apple TV Edition.
Here's the thing, some people like front wheel blocks, some don't. I'm one of the ones that do. I like my front wheel to stay put and not aimlessly wiggle around. For $8, this solves that problem. Note some trainers do come with them. Also note, I use a riser block with *every* trainer.
I've got three of these $12 fans floating around the DCR Cave, and I frequently use them on rides. They work just fine. Sure, they're not as powerful as a Wahoo Headwind, but I could literally buy 20 of them for the same price.
This desk is both a knock-off of the original KICKR Desk, but yet also better than it. First, it's got wheel locks (so the darn thing stays put), and second, it has two water bottle holders (also useful for putting other things like remotes). I've been using it as my main trainer desk for a long time now and love it. Cheaper is better apparently. Note: Branding varies by country, exact same desk.
This is by far the best value in trainer desks, at only $59, but with most of the features of the higher end features. It's got multi-tier tablet slots, water bottle holders, non-stick surface, adjustable height and more. I'm loving it!
One of the most popular trainer fans out there, rivaling the Wahoo Headwind fan in strength but at a fraction of the price. It doesn't have smartphone/ANT+/Bluetooth integration, but it does have secondary outlets. I've been using it, and a similiar European version lately with great success (exact EU variant I use is automatically linked at left).
I've had this for years, and use it in places where I don't have a big screen or desk, but just an iPad or tablet on my road bike bars.
And of course – you can always sign-up to be a DCR Supporter! That gets you an ad-free DCR, access to the DCR Quarantine Corner video series packed with behind the scenes tidbits...and it also makes you awesome. And being awesome is what it’s all about!
Thanks for reading! And as always, feel free to post comments or questions in the comments section below, I’ll be happy to try and answer them as quickly as possible. And lastly, if you felt this review was useful – I always appreciate feedback in the comments below. Thanks!
Interesting stuff as usual!
Two remarks:
– to make your life easier, put a small mirror under the camera and you won’t have to look ‘around the corner’ to see the decibel meter ;-)
– that optical sensor and the teeth as a power meter is pretty nifty, never heard of that. In your opinion, could that principle be used on bicycles in some way, offering yet an alternative way to get power and bikes (and hopefully driving prices further down in the process)?
Thanks!
Yeah, I was trying to find a small mirror that day, but eventually gave up. It’s on my shopping list. :)
As for power meter tech, remember that (customer issues aside), the tech that trainers can use indoors is dramatically different than bikes outdoors. Trainers don’t typically deal with things like off-road usage, cobbles, water, snow, etc…
That feature is only offered within the UK markets, as there seems to be a dramatically higher occurrence rate of people following GPS units into ponds: link to techdirt.com
Once you add your KICKR as an FE-C trainer (ensure the firmware has been updated at least once since last winter), you’ll see the new options under ‘Training’*.
*I don’t have an Edge 1000 with me at the moment, but it’s roughly called that. A bit more detail in my FE-C post here: link to dcrainmaker.com
I updated my Kickr’s firmware as you suggest, but I still don’t see an option under Workouts that gives me Follow a Course etc. My Edge is connected to the Kickr.
Seems to me we are spoilt for choice these days :)
I’ve been hovering over the virtual buy button for the Neo, but have some concerns, the kickr 2 looks great again but it’s not a massive step up from my kickr1. The Drivio looks like a good middle ground and the accuracy is a big win,
so I’m no considering going with the Elite.
any word on when you’ll be releasing a final Neo review?
or is the executive overview the one you are sticking with?
I was simply asking Ray when he planned to published a full review of the Neo, as the one currently on the blog was a hands on “executive” overview. :)
Great review. Every electronically-controlled trainer should come with an ANT+ stick. It’s one thing fewer for a 1st time buyer to buy to realize the full potential of their purchase.
Except Kurt Kinetic. They’re off the hook for terrible reasons.
Looking forward to the Rampa review, I’m in the market for a mid range trainer and so holding off untill reviews are here… Almost bought a tacx vortex last year but after seeing the tacx forums I didn’t buy.
Ray, could also be interesting to add to your reviews a kind of “future proof scale”, I realize that might be difficult, e.g. the new elite ones will probably get updates while the Vortex is already 2 years old so might be less future proof if bought this fall. I’m now in my 6th year on a Tacx Satori, I suppose people usually buy a trainer for a longer period of time…
Ray, you mention:
“Now of course it’s not 100% silent, but the trainer that is costs $400 more.”
From the comparison table, the Drivo is $1,299/€1,390 while the NEO is $1,599USD/1,100EUR, i.e. the Drivo is 300 USD cheaper but 290 EUR more expensive. Is there really such a large difference in pricing across regions? In that case the Drivo could have a hard time versus the NEO in Europe.
It’s simply what happens when I can’t do mental math. :)
Regional pricing is super-tricky in Europe. I wrote up something a while back, but since I’m not sure where I wrote it, the short version is that since the US has MAP (Minimum Advertised Price), companies can set a price and it’ll stick. Whereas that practice is illegal everywhere else in the world.
So in Europe, retailers (primarily online sites, and even within that, a small handful) will sell it for whatever they’d like. So a NEO could go for 999EUR, and the site does that because they’ll sell at cost, or even a loss, and see it as a marketing move for your future business.
Thus, pricing in Europe is all over the map and I don’t usually try and compare it there.
Well, in Europe there is no MAP policy like there is in USA so indicating pricing is challenging… the NEO MSRP in Europe ranges actually between 1,400EUR/1,600EUR depending on the country.
Would this trainer have any issues with tri bikes that have a narrow seatstay the way the Neo has. Also any word on when Neo will be fixing that problem.
The unit ‘drops away’ from the frame more quickly than the NEO does (which tapers outwards), so it might be better, but I’d be hard to say 100% on a frame by frame basis.
On the Tacx side, they’ve released a new shell design on the NEO (only change to it), that should help. I believe those units started going out either last month, or this month.
Thanks very much for the link to the Zwiftcast Ray.
I’d really urge people to listen to episode nine. The overview of what’s new and what’s good in smart trainer land from the MAN is very instructive.
hi ray thanks for another excellent review.
having been using a cycleops powerbeam pro “wheel on” trainer for my indoor training over the last few winters I am now looking to upgrade to a direct “wheel off” trainer this year so I am taking great interest in reading your current reviews. before pulling the trigger on any trainer I will wait to until you publish your reviews on the cycleops hammer and tacx flux. up until reading this review the tacx neo was probably going to be the way I was heading based on your opinion as to it be being the “best bang for buck” trainer available so far, however I still have my reservations on this choice as I am still reading posts with regards quality/operational issues with this trainer. I am looking forward to reading your upcoming reviews on the tacx flux and cycleops hammer before deciding. thanks!
It looks like a promising addition to the trainer market. I’m surprised they went with that design for the cover, it looks like a bike is connected to an early 90’s Gateway2000 tower. :)
Wondering if Elite is still the most Mac-unfriendly trainer company in the market, or if the combination of ANT+/Bluetooth neutralizes that somewhat. Will this work with Zwift, etc. on a Mac?
I’ve got an extremely old trainer (tacx sirius) and a power meter that I currently use with Zwift, but having used a friends Tacx Neo, I love the FE-C control.
I’m guessing that part of the expense of the trainers is the in-built power meter?
Is it possible to implement FE-C without a power-meter?
I guess what I’m asking is, is there a way of getting a trainer that will control Zwift or similar, without having to fork out a large sum again (and never getting to use it as the mrs will kill me!)
Actually, FE-C is available in a number of cheaper trainers. Such as the Elite Rampa, the Tacx Bushido and the Tacx Vortex, and Wahoo KICKR SNAP and CycleOps Magnus. No need for a power meter within the trainer, but there is a need to be able for the unit tell power. Most trainers uses known characteristics to determine power output, rather than an actual power meter within it.
So yup, you can get Zwift to control your trainer starting around $500USD.
No. However, my understanding is that the hardware store sells bright orange spray-paint, so you could paint it that color and feel more like a traffic cone. Adds to the road-like feel.
Without uncertainty calculation in the calibration certificate the calibration results are not considered to be as yet traceable to a national standards. The reference system and test procedures used during the calibration of the Elite Drivo may have a measurament uncertainty higher than 1%.
So, the Elite Drivo “Total error” is approximately = measurament uncertainty + 1% …..
:)
I would be more interested in knowing short and long term stability of the power meter reading, especially with various room/elite temperature.
Maybe use a hairdryer on the sensor to see effect of temperature drift :)
Power numbers looks spot on from the very start of the ride. It means ‘cold’ start doesn’t affect them at all. I really doubt there is any significant temperature drift in normal indoor conditions. I don’t know about extremes (like freezing cold, super hot, dramatic temperature shifts) but I’am afraid such conditions would be outside of operational temperature margin of the whole system (electronics etc.). I guess we will have to wait and see.
Sorry if this was clarified elsewhere but I didn’t see it with quick search.
I would like clarification of “simulation mode”, or “gradient” as ultimately there are only watts. The power to get up a hill of 5% depends mostly on my speed and the weight of my gear and body. Does one input weight in order for simulation mode to know what resistance is appropriate?
If I set it to 10%, my total weight (bike, clothes, body) and use my singlespeed will it feel like a 10% road climb?
Charlie Anderson: Oh! I think I see what you mean: ‘simulation’ is not of appropriate resistance for my weight, but of inertia. A bike will coast a long time on the flat and only a short time on a steep grade, that is emulated by varying the inertia?
Anyway, I’d rather be told correct info rather than guess.
For simulation mode, ANT+ FE-C (the trainer protocol) takes the user’s weight and the bike’s weight as parameters. You fill these out in the software which sends them to the trainer. Air density is also a parameter, but most programs seem to use the default values here.
The resistance generated by the trainer is based on speed, weight and grade. This is done by the trainer, not the software.
How many simultaneous connections can BTLE handle.
I am a bit confused as googling seems to suggest only one connection at a time, for example (the reason i was googling) Connecting the Drivo to iOS trainerroad, whilst connecting bluetooth headphones to listen to music is apparently not possible(?).
However it seems obvious that a Garmin 1000 can connect to a bluetooth speed cadence, a heart rate strap, and a power meter ….. so perhaps google was wrong? How many simultaneous connections (one being a reliable Drivo connection) can BTLE on iPhone handle?
BTLE can only do one concurrent connection on the sensor side. However, on the master side (i.e. your phone), you have a full BT chipset, so it can do multiple concurrent connections.
The Edge 1000 (as with all Garmin products) uses ANT+ (no BLE sensor support, just phone sync), which supports effectively unlimited connections on the sensor side.
Great write up, as always. I’m particularly intrigued by one of your comments which has been front of mind for me recently:
“Once powered on, the unit is instantly ready to ride. There’s actually no calibration of the unit, nor roll-down process for it. It’s basically identical to the higher end Tacx NEO trainer in that regard. Attempting to send a calibration command to it from an app (or via FE-C) just results in a confused blank stare from the trainer. It’s basically saying: “I don’t need none of that peasantry roll-down stuff, I’m self-calibrated 100% of the time”. Roughly.”
I can understand the Drivo and Neo being ‘ready to ride’, but how does this apply to other trainers in this class? I’m aware that the Kickr has a bit of power drift and as such needs ~15 minutes to ‘warm up’ (at least I think this is what i’ve read). Would that warm-up also apply to other trainers of the same ‘format’, such as the upcoming Hammer?
And, asked in a different way: If someone is in the market for a ‘ready to ride’ trainer without warm-up calibration, would they be restricted to the Neo and Drivo?
We don’t know on the Hammer yet. My guess is that it’ll be in the 5-10 warm-up area. Wahoo is also saying (in my most recent chat with them) that 5-10 minutes at most for KICKR2, but even that isn’t really required (again, according to them).
So yes, in a nutshell, just NEO/DRIVO (and Elite KURA, but that’s not FE-C controllable).
I’ve been semi-surprised from feedback to find out that’s not the case. I suppose if you only have one bike (or even two bikes), it likely has a cassette on it, so little reason to have those tools otherwise.
The thought that there are people out there with only one bike, with only one set of wheels, is frankly absurd. Anyone who suggests such a thing immediately loses all credibility. Where someone would get such an idea is beyond me?!?
Actually, many triathletes won’t have multiple bikes. They’ll have their tri bike, and that’s it. Sure, they may have some sort of random around town type bike, but it’s not super common for triathletes to have multiple road bikes like roadies.
Also, if you’re buying wheels from a local bike shop, they’re likely to just toss the cassette on for you. Again, no need to have such tools themselves.
Well, I (and perhaps several others) think it’s absurd that you believe everyone should be able to afford (or has the desire) to own more than one bike with only one set of wheels.
As for myself, I own two bikes that I currently use, but a Trek road bike and a Cannondale mountain bike and have an older spare set of wheels for my road bike. But, not everyone owns more than one bike and/or set of wheels of whatever type of bike and I recognize that fact.
Your comments frankly comes off as a bit arrogant and rather disrespectful of cyclists who are in a different income bracket or have different desires than you.
Well, I guess I didn’t pick up on the sarcasm. So, there is one of two conclusions here:
1. It’s obvious that I am not that good at picking up on the obvious sarcasm, or;
2. Maybe his sarcasm isn’t that obvious, as DCR himself commented with his post that not all people have more than one bike.
That’s the problem quite often encountered with sarcasm, especially with online forms because you can’t express tone of voice very well. On one hand someone could interpret sarcastic comments as humour. But, at the same time, someone else could interpret it as insulting.
In your annual trainer recommendations guide which you will post probably end september / begin october. Will you also be covering the existing vortex smart and bushido smart? Or will recommendations/tests be the same as in your past recommendations guide?
The thing is: I would like to buy a new trainer to replace my current Tacx I-Flow/I-Magic which I only use connected to my PC using TTS 3 software and I already had a look on the different products and want to spent about 500€ max.
Now I see some different options:
Tacx Vortex Smart T2180 with tabletholder: 356 euro (no TTS software)
Tacx Bushido Smart T2780 (2nd hand) without tabletholder: 360 euro (unit is second hand but alsmost as new, no TTS software)
Tacx Bushido Smart T2780 (new) without tabletholder 478 euro (no TTS software)
What would be the best option of those or would it be better to wait until end of september/begin october because of prices dropping when new trainers will be launched? Or will some prices increase?
I get where you are going with the statement that the certificate of accuracy from an independent accredited lab doesn’t mean much to you as you still need to test it according to normal operating conditions, but that might lead some of your readers down an incorrect thought path. I know you understand that your testing is not scientifically backed or traceable to actual standards. Yes, comparison to a known “best in industry” is better than nothing, but it will never match what an accredited lab can produce for the simple reason of standards. Ideally, I would prefer an accredited lab take a power meter or trainer through the steps that you take them through (cobbles, response lag, temp, overshoot, hysteresis), but they don’t get paid for that, and some of those tests wouldn’t have a standard to test to anyways. Even better yet, I would love to see you get a traceable ergometer that could be connected to the drivetrain of your bike, and then you could be the perfect set up for power meter and trainer testing. Until that day, I will still read and enjoy your posts and reviews. Thanks for all you do.
Don’t get me wrong, I think lab testing can be useful – and is far better than nothing.
However, anytime a company pays for lab testing, then they’re deciding whether or not to release those results. So, we never get to see the other side of the coin if it fails horribly. We only see sunny days.
In this particular case, my concern with this lab testing is that we actually don’t know the test. They’ve basically said “We’ve tested it!”, versus saying exactly what they did. For example, most trainers will be more accurate at higher wattages. So a lab could test at a (mostly) non-human 1,500w, and be within 1%, but at 150w would be within 2-4%.
I’m not saying that’s what happened here (and I really don’t think it is), but I’m just trying to have folks understand the caveats when companies don’t publish test protocols. All other major certifications (i.e. ISO certifications) have very clear test protocols. Ironically, it’s something I’ve been approached by many times by many companies (trainers and power meters) in the industry about getting together a group to define what those test protocols are. Most companies actually seem to want to find a way to agree upon a definition.
Yep, that response is exactly what I wanted to assure other readers knew about you. Being a long time reader myself, I knew where you stood on this issue, and also knew you had been approached by companies. If you had a clone, I would love to see Ray.2 take on that role that the companies have asked of you. ISO, ASTM, DIN, and other industry recognized testing standard organizations have numerous testing protocols that you could piece together to test a power meter or trainer, but a one stop consolidated protocol is what Ray.2 would be extremely useful in creating. Then if company X produced a power meter or trainer they would only have to produce the results of that protocol. Of course those results would need to be well documented, reproducible, and traceable. That testing would also be best conducted by an independent accredited lab. If I had money and the huevos to pursue it, as a test engineer and a triathlete it would be my dream job. Still, I think Ray.2 is a more likely scenario.
Yes, please take this on. I will commit you to do this :)
Ideally the test protocol for trainers and power meters would be very similar and include:
1). Steady state – e.g., measure / hold wattage levels from 50 to 1000 watts, in 25 watt increments
2A). Progressively larger step jumps to test response time & over / under shoot characteristics – e.g., increase power from 200 watts to 250 watts, increase from 200 to 300 watts, increase from 200 to 400 watts, etc.
2B). Basically the reverse of 2A: step from higher to lower wattage.
3). Ramp test – increase wattage from 50 to 1000 watts at a 1 watt / second
We do what you describe in our lab, in a rig with a HBM T12 Torque transducer traceable to national standards. The only thing we currently cannot handle are pedals, since we attach the rig to the BB. The pyramid testing and rpm independent power output is challenging even for Ergometry Made for lab use…
Ray – now that you have done in-depth on both the Drivo and Kickr which would you recommend? I need to get a trainer before November so won’t be considering the Flux.
Ray, I’d like to make two requests/suggestions for your upcoming tests on the Tacx Flux and Elite Rampa. For each I’d like to explain why I think these tests are important/unique.
When testing the Tacx Flux as well as accuracy I like to know how consistent the power readings are. We’ve all been through this thinking over power meters and it seems just as important here. My current wheel on trainer with its +/- 5% accuracy is rubbish in this respect as that +/- 5% accuracy is also +/- 5% inconsistency. This means varied clamp pressure and a different wheel/tyre/bike can mean one ride is 10% different to another – which is useless for power based training. The wheel off nature of this trainer should eliminate this and even if accuracy is off, for a ANT+ FE-C trainer at this price point then good consistency could be enough to make this trainer a winner.
When you test the Elita Rampa there is an aspect to this trainer that puts it in a category of its own unlike any other trainer. As well as testing if the trainer itself is a hit I’d also be delighted if you could test the aspect that sets it apart as others may follow. Currently most (cheaper) trainers use power curves and current speed to generate power numbers. As a result if you want to do 10 second sprints at high power then it’s impossible, as even incredible power (I wish) goes unrecognised as you build up speed at the start of the sprint and by the time you have the flywheel up to speed the interval is over. Previously the only way around this has been to either use a power meter in addition to the trainer or get an expensive ERG mode style trainer to vary the resistance. So can the Rampa be used for accurate sprints, should others follow? If this is the case then for TrainerRoad type users this trainer may be every bit as good as the pricier trainers, even if the Zwift types still want to pay the extra for controlled variable resistance.
You write about Rampa but I think you mean Kura (Rampa is smart wheel-on trainer with variable resistance). Kura’s power meter is the same as Drivo’s so it will react instantly to power changes. Your sprints won’t be ignored in power readings.
When ever I’m doing sprint efforts on a smart trainer I put it in slope mode and use the bikes shifters.
But the one thing I have noticed is whether it’s a smart trainer with a onboard powermeter(powerbeam or wahoo1) or a smart trainer using estimated power(Vortex/Snap), is the power coming from the trainer is well behind traditional PMs and never really get the power peaks. My SRM, Stages and Powertap will always show higher power peaks and avg. power during short intense intervals using PerfPro or a hard acceleration on zwift. If you set up two riders on PerPro, one from the bikes pm and the other picking data up from trainer. Normalized power with the PM will be higher than the trainer because of this. I haven’t tried a NEO but I did order one of these Drivos based on nothing but hope before reading this review. My hopes are looking like reality with that tiny glitch that was picked up by the drivo.
Re: the method used to measure torque: is the time difference measurement made between the two sets of teeth (which would mean that the two sets of teeth are at two different positions along the axle) or is the time difference measured between the time at which the torque is applied and the time at which axle at the position of the teeth responds to the torque (in this case the second set of teeth along with the second optical sensor would be used to increase the number of measurement samples and thus reduce any noise in the measurement)?
Anyone seen a second review of this trainer? If I’m going to trust anyone’s review it’s going to be Ray’s, but with a completely new trainer I’m hesitant to truly consider buying this based on a single review.
I’m in the market for a quiet direct drive trainer, and am down to Drivo vs. Neo vs. Kickr2. All three are basically the same cost for me here in Canada, within $100 so that’s a non-factor. My current summary of the arguable differences:
– Kickr2: loudest (but not much louder than Drivo), least accurate, needs calibration with each ride, but best company support and best company reputation and easiest to set up and can go unplugged (I think)
– Drivo: most accurate (supposedly), fairly quiet, no calibration, fairly easy to set up (simple cassette install), but may have issues fitting TT bikes and company with average reputation and brand new product with one review ever seen and only one online (and no local) store carrying it that I can find and even then not currently in stock
– Neo: very quiet (other than freewheel racket of course), very accurate, least stress to bike frame due to flexibility, downhill motor nice feature, ability to go unplugged, Ray’s #1 pick, good availability, 1 year old so bugs theoretically worked out already, but stories of defects and poor customer service and average reputation and toughest to set up (eg Campy tools needed for cassette but poor info on whether that’s still the case) and won’t fit TT bike easily (but fixed with new 2017 version)
Leaning strongly towards the Neo at this point, and need to decide soon with temperatures plummeting soon here in the Canadian prairies. Here’s hoping the upcoming big trainer roundup will help solidify my choice, and hopefully the first wave of Drivo owners will post reviews somewhere, along with other cycling review sites.
Michael, I’m not entirely sure of your assessment of TT bikes on the Drivo/Kura and 2017 Neo.
In the face of a complete lack of evidence I’ve been drawing more lines on trainers and bikes following the Tacx lead.
It looks to me (by this highly speculative and probably inaccurate method) as though the Drivo/Kura is still a safer bet than the 2017 Neo for TT bikes. The Elite turbos could also have three other bike compatibility advantages 1) If you have a Trek then the shorter shell should stop before DuoTrap sensor 2) The shorter shell should also stop short of integrated rear brakes that could be a problem with the Neo 3) You can change the angle of the Elite shell by changing the wheel size – So you could put a 650c front wheel on your 700c bike, ride lower and gain a bit of clearance. (I suspect the Kura in my picture is already on the 650c feet though)
All this is utter guesswork of course.
I’d love to hear from people that have one of these narrow chain-stay bikes and any of these new model trainers. We know the kind of bikes – Cannondale Slice, Fuji Norcom Straight, Spezialized Shiv, Treks with SAVE stays, small P5s, Falco etc. If anybody with these could confirm what bikes/size/year they have and the amount of clearance it might help inform other TT bike owners.
I notice that though the Neo now has a new shape that Tacx haven’t issued a new bike checking template or any information on chainstay angles so that you can check if your bike fits the new 2017 Neo rather than the old one.
Where have you seen the Neo in Canada? I’ve had no luck? Tried to get MEC to order one without success. I’ve seen one on Amazon but that’s it. Any retailers you know of?
Slightly off the subject but what software do you use for power meter analyzer? I’d like to compare the power data off a Computrainer to my Garmin Vector pedals.
Hi Ray,
Our lab would love to help with beta testing if possible, I presume the software is built around the Wasp?
Something I’m missing in your trainer reviews is compatibility with all known axle standards known to man… 130/135 QR, 12×142, boost … important for those with both mountain, road and cross bikes
It seems that TrainerRoad doesn’t support (Elite’s) Bluetooth Smart Control.
TR Support (incredibly quick response) suggested using Wahoo ANT+ dongle which is not really that great a solution as Wahoo Key + Lightening adapter is expensive, and (other than being messy) means HDMI output to bigger screen is not possible.
It seems that the Neo had this issue as well (i don’t know if it was resolved). Ergo/FE-C over Bluetooth is kindof implied by everyone (eg. Trainerroad logo on box).
I have submitted the idea to trainer road, so would appreciate others support and comments to the post linked below.
Hi, the cause is that Bluetooth Smart control for trainers is not a standard as it’s the ANT+ FE-C. This means that each manufacturer has developed its own custom protocol.
The main problem is that software developers like TR should implement into their software all the different protocols and this requires time/resources. I’m quite sure that TR will implement it in the future.
HI all, somewhat new to indoor trainers so I apologize if this question seems foolish but before I shell out the big bucks on a Drivo or Neo Smart I want to make sure I can use it with my Garmin 820 courses. My objective is to be able to essentially pair the Garmin with the trainer then ride one of my normal pre-loaded courses such that it will effectively reproduce the same ride experience inside. I am not concerned with scenery or anything else since I simply plan to watch TV while riding on the trainer but I do want the trainer to mimic the elevation changes.
Is the same thing i’m looking for. as soon as the comparison between high end trainers will be ready i’ll buy elite drivo, tacx neo or kickr “2”…
my goals are:
1) create custom workouts with erg mod or sim mode (for example: 15′ WU, 5×5′ Vo2max etc etc)
2) race on IM bike course by downloading elevation files from one of the trainer app websites (trainerroad, bestbikesplit, kinomap)
download a valid elevation files is what worries me because of the thousand files avaiable online most of which need to be smoothed/verified/corrected.
After a some time figuring out how to set my Drivo up, i got the possibility to try it out. (The instructions are pretty bad! probably more confusing than helpful…). I connected to zwift and started riding… I stoped pretty soon though since i did not find the trainer that quiet at all… I can identify two sounds that i don´t believe come from the drivetrain: one clunking sound (mainly when i stop pedaling and the trainer spins down) and one ratching sound, pretty mellow but a bit annoying. Before i jump up again i would like to hear if any one else have experienced this? Is the clunking sound the resistance changing stepwise?
But historically I’ve always used a higher speed gear combination, because on older trainers like the CompuTrainer it kept the speed up and was better for the motor than a very low-speed combination at high wattages.
So typically I’ll do a big run up front, and then one of the lower rings in the back.
Hi Ray,
A quick question for you. I don’t get how the trainer is able to transmit my cadence. Do you have to put some sensor on your pedal or your crank ?
Thanks
I’m not Ray but I think I can answer this question. Drivo is able to do it in two ways. It calculates cadence from torque variance in power meter unit. In this scenario no additional sensor is required and you don’t need to put anything on your bike. You can also use traditional magnet based sensor installed on the frame, which you connect to the trainer through the wire. Second option gives batter cadence accuracy.
Those are facts. You may even see photo of “optional” wired cadence sensor in this review. Calculating cadence from torque or roller speed variance is rather standard in smart trainers nowadays. Unfortunately this method is not perfect (especially on low wheel speeds), so probably that’s the reason why Elite gives option to use additional, more reliable magnet based sensor.
I confirm that the trainer calculates the cadence from the torque variation and that is possible to use the wired included cadence sensor as well.
The calculation of the cadence from the torque variation has a good accuracy and it’s much more stable compared to the calculation based on the speed, so the cadence is accurate is almost all the training situations.
A reason for having the wired cadence sensor included is for the Pedaling Analysis. The Pedaling Analysis function works fine even without it but having the wired sensor attached, lets the trainer to recognize the left leg. Without it, it’s impossible for the trainer understand which leg is pushing.
I have read our articles or many years and never posted anything so first just wanted to thank you for all your time and effort you put into this.
I have just received delivery of my new Drivo and having tried riding with it using various software combinations (Trainer Road, Golden Cheetah, Elite’s Real software and Zwift) They all suggest that the trainer is putting out an average of about 50W less than my Rotor InPower power meter. I have also tried with a different rider to check that it wasn’t an issue of imbalance in my legs with the Rotor just being a left arm and they provided the same results to rule that out.
I was wondering if you have come across this sort of thing before as I have never had a smart trainer and couldn’t seem to find any similar issues online. Do you think this is likely to be a problem with my trainer or user error in some fashion?
Sorry for the long question but any advice on this would be much appreciated.
Without having a 3rd unit to compare, it’s going to be really hard to say. Fwiw, I never had much luck with InPower being accurate unfortunately (Gen1), though, I haven’t tested Gen2. Note this is assuming you’ve calibrated the ROTOR (you can’t calibrate the Drivo).
One thing to do is try doing something like a 100w test. That makes it really easy to know which is right. Or even 75w. Basically, something low enough that you can look at one of the two wattages and say “That’s not right” based on your gut.
Alternatively…find another friend with another power meter and invite them over for a few beers to ride on your trainer for 5 mins. :)
Sorry, unfortunately, without some sort of 3rd PM to validate, it’s just hard to know.
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll get a third power meter from a friend and retest to see where the discrepancy is coming from.
Trying the low power test at 100W it doesn’t feel right on the trainer (it feels too hard) but I guess if the ROTOR power meter had been showing me incorrect data for a while my perception of what that should feel like would be skewed!
Hmmm, yet again it seems the review unit you’ve been sent doesn’t match up with the reality of what a consumer gets……
So – TrainerRoad – I did the Sufferfest Rubber Glove FTP test. As part of the warm-up there are 4 block efforts.
Essentially the Drivo was rubbish in matching my output to the target in ERG mode. It constantly over and under shoots, over-adjusting resistance and as well as the obvious power issues in the attached graph, this was clearly felt in the feet, that keeping to a constant cadence required softer and harder efforts.
Hmm, have you reached out to TrainerRoad? I ask because when I saw this with the KICKR, they were actually able to pull the logs from the ride and show where there was wireless dropouts. Meaning, it may not be the Drivo, but something in the environment.
For completeness I have asked them……however I’ve been using a KICKR for over 2 years, have an impeccable setup and never have any issues with things like zwift which are a bit more sensitive to dropouts both on ant and wifi. So unless retail units of the Drivo are lead lined……. ;-)
After a few back and forths with trainerroad to establish I’m not a moron :) the end conclusion was:
With the Elite Drivo being so new, there definitely is room for error on both Elite’s end and ours. You definitely seem to know what you’re talking about and if the KICKR is working fine then it doesn’t seem to be due to interferences. You may even want to try emailing Elite directly here: real@elite-it.com
Thanks for understanding and for the feedback! :)
So, I revert to my original statement that the unit you have been sent shows a very different output to the one I have here. In short, ERG mode is extremely poor indeed. I did contact Elite yesterday, no reply as yet.
Lee, did you get this sorted? I just received my new Drivo today and found erg mode almost worthless on Zwift. Also the unit frequently starts off at impossibly high resistance level and doesn’t decrease predictably or quickly. I’m starting to do searching now for troubleshooting and found a number of people with similar issues. Thanks
Fantastically informative site Ray, I have taken the plunge and purchased a Drivo. First smart trainer so really impressed how it takes indoor training to the next level.All is good connecting via ANT+.
Just wondering if anyone has had issues connecting via Bluetooth as cannot get Zwift to find the Drivo at all using my built in Bluetooth on my MacBook Pro. It is however showing as connected to the MacBook if I click on the Bluetooth icon in the menu bar of the MacBook.
If I use the Zwift app as the Bluetooth source it will find the Drivo as a controllable trainer and also under cadence but not as the power source.
I have posted on Titanium Geeks site also as he mentioned in his review he had had issues but only in the fact that the Drivo is quick to turn off the Bluetooth so you have to be quick with searching for it, which I have duly made sure I am. Have also completely reset the Bluetooth on my MacBook in case there was a clitch with it
Think I might have found why having an issue. Found this on Zwift site
macOS Sierra note: We’re aware that some users with macOS 10.12 have had issues with the built-in bluetooth feature, and we will try and issue a fix in the next 5-7 days to address this.
Good to hear Zwift and Bluetooth work. Trainer Road only connects as Speed and Cadence in the iOS app using Bluetooth (rendering it unusable). Trainerroad seem to have little interested in supporting non-kickr “FE-C control over Bluetooth”flavors so great to hear that Zwift are already on Bluetooth for Ergo mode.
Hi Juan,
yes, that’s possible using ANT+ communication. In fact, both share the ANT+ FE-C compatibility.
Note, Tacx app support Bluetooth Smart sensors so can read power, speed and cadence from the trainer using Bluetooth but it’s not able to interact with our trainers as we’re using a custom service.
Thanks Ray for the great review as always. I actually bought the Drivo after reading your review.
I must say though that I am not happy so far with it based on my use of it so far. It seems to basically be set on crazy high resistance. I can’t turn the pedals with my hand to adjust the derailleur on the cassette freely and am forced to use my legs just pedal at all. I finally got the derailleur adjusted. But just sitting on the trainer and pedaling can be incredibly hard. As in I have to stand up and push for all I’m worth just to get the crank to turn. Then it makes that humming sound and then somehow the resistance is reduced slightly. I have no clue what is up and sent support to request to Elite. I’ve tried their software and tried Golden Cheetah and the issue still remains.
I’m curious if you had any issues like that or if you might know what’s up.
For some reason, when “idle” Elite have the Drivo set to “crazy high resistance”.
This has two implications, firstly as you say – if you need to adjust the rear mech, it is almost impossible to do so by turning the cranks with your hands – that i imagine would be possible if the “idle” resistance set the brake to it’s lowest setting / fully disengaged. Personally i think a super easy “idle” would be better.
Secondly, if you experience drop out of the signal in Erg-Mode or pause momentarily for some reason (pick up towel or change video you are watching) – it means you find that you have to pedal through treacle to get it going again.
I have found that Zwift and Trainer Road seem to behave a little differently in Erg mode. Zwift *seems* to come out on top when it comes to (what seems like) signal drop with the impact minimal. And when pausing momentarily Zwift copes brilliantly – whereas TR often gets into abandon/restart workout territory.
Overall, i am so far pleased though. I imagine some of these are things that can be ironed out with software fixes – and i have found Elite and TR to be responsive when it comes to support.
Thanks J for the reply. I’m glad I’m not the only on as I was thinking I got a dud for a unit. I just wish I can figure out how to turn that resistance off. I tried to create an erg program with low resistance but I think the minimum is 100 W, and that idea did not work out.
Hopefully, Elite replies with some words of wisdom because I’d love to get some workouts in without breaking something.
I trialled a Drivo on behalf of a shop. Conclusion was that as a power meter it was highly accurate, as a smart trainer its a piece of rubbish. Even using the Elite app, trying to get it to maintain smooth power in ERG mode was a nightmare. Let alone TrainerRoad.
Conversely, in the same room, same conditions KICKR and Neo absolutely fine.
Returned it to them with a clear “I wouldn’t sell this to a customer in a million years in its current form”.
Elite were not very helpful, iniitally the same old same old advice about interference, signals, smooth pedalling etc etc. In the end when I sent them sample runs of their unit vs KICKR they just said “Well thats just what it does”.
Not to mention that I’ve yet to find a single person who thought the colour and aesthetics were anything other than outright ugly.
Thanks for the feedback with your experience. Honestly, I’m having trouble reconciling your experience with Ray’s review and I as of yet am just starting to feel out this thing since I only just got it. I only just saw your earlier post to Ray about your results. I hope it is a software/firmware update thing that fixes it. Perhaps you trialed an early version of the trainer.
I hope Ray or Elite weigh in on the issue to shed some more light. But I am disappointed so far. This was my first purchase ever as a result of reading Ray’s review and I even got it from Clever Training. I’ll give them a call to find out what can be done.
But honestly, I really like the built in power meter which is why I got it. I was originally going to get the Hammer but it is not out yet and the NEO is too expensive in my opinion. I chose the Drivo over the KICKR since it had that built-in meter and I could get it for the same price as the KICKR since there was a sale.
It would be great if more users/owners of the Drivo shared their view.
Its a baffler isn’t it, how Ray gets these pristine units with no issues, but then consumers get inundated with problems. I went through 3 Neo’s before I gave up.
What can I say ? I used Elite’s own app on my phone and went for a simple “2min@100, 2min@150, 2min@200” etc. It was shocking. Some of the wattage changes took forever to go through which immediately smacks of signal/interference. So I did it again, this time holding my phone behind me so it was right above the Drivo. Of course, when I use my phone to control a KICKR or Neo, it sits on my wahoo desk in front of me and trainer and has zero issues.
Maybe a faulty unit who knows ? But the stepper motor inside smacks of the turbo muin b+ thing which slid a magnet back and forth, a particularly naff way of adjusting resistance if you ask me.
As I said, the powermeter inside the Drivo is first class and always tracked perfectly well against my other PMs. So I have no doubt that its accurate, its biggest selling point. But the rest of the product, its control interface etc, nope.
I asked Elite repeatedly if updated firmware was available, never got an answer to that so I presume no (and surely the app would prompt you if there was).
The best I could get from Elite was “pedal at a consistent rate” (even though what I sent them shows an incredible constant cadence) and “those power jumps are perfectly normal and to be expected” even though they don’t occur on my KICKR. And bear in mind in all tests I was sending them the power outputs from my powertap pedals to make it a fair comparison, everyone knows a KICKR is artificially smoothed.
Still prefer the KICKR over the NEO, the Neo has a weird kinda “slip” in its virtual flywheel if you accelerate hard just like a tyre slipping on a conventional wheel-on trainer.
I eagerly await the Hammer as I’m hoping it’ll be “the one”. Powertap tech so should be accurate, mahoosive flywheel so should be smooth, decent case so should fit all my bikes, not white 1980’s star wars at-at styling, just remains to be seen how good their control interface is.
Lee-
Hmm, I’m not really sure why you keep saying I get pristine issues and others don’t. Plenty of others have no issues with trainers. And, as noted recently, I even got a loud-NEO this summer as well. That said, it’s a bit hard to reconcile an experience if Elite didn’t have a chance to troubleshoot or look at the hardware that’s causing issues.
Hany – I’d be interested in what Elite says. I’ll poke them and forward your info over to them to see and speed that up. Perhaps there’s logs they can pull (just like TrainerRoad can).
J – Note that TrainerRoad and Zwift don’t actually use the same modes, thus, why you see different experiences from stop. TR uses a true ERG mode, whereas Zwift is using a slope simulation. Hence why TR remains at a very hard to pedal resistance when you stop, because that ERG level is still applied. So if you leave it at 350w, it’ll be the same (the KICKR does the exact same thing).
I’ve been getting more familiar with the unit and thankfully I am able to pedal it now although the issues I mentioned still remain. Still really hard to freely turn the pedals by hand and it still can be very hard to pedal. So perhaps it does relate to the idle resistance setting as J states.
But I was able to create and run an ERG file in Golden Cheetah and I was also able to use the Elite software. It is a nice unit as long as I can just figure out what state it is in when idle and how to basically turn off that brake.
As for Lee’s comments, I became concerned and tested my unit by having a simple erg file that was 4 repeats of 100W->150W and saw that the unit did work as expected. There is a lag and I roughly estimate it in the 3-5 sec range. And to be honest that neither surprises me nor bothers me. It would be great if it was faster. I think part of the fluctuations in power are very much due to the pedaling smoothness. Although the sensor is instant readout, the unit is not and it’s lag will allow you to go above or below the target power setting until it catches up.
The only conclusion I can draw then is that the unit sent to the shop as their demo unit was faulty. As you say Hany, a delay of 3 to 5 seconds is very different to what I had.
I have had the chance to do a few rides on the Drivo after upgrading from a Cycleops Powerbeam Pro. My set-up includes a 5 ft usb to ant+ cable that allows the ant+ sensor to be within 2 feet of the Drivo. Initial impressions:
– Much different experience on Zwift. Using the PBP I could feel the changes in grade but I could pretty much “big ring” the whole island. With the Drivo you can feel every little rise. I had to actually reduce the “trainer difficulty” setting on Zwift to reduce the harshness in transitions. On the Zwift mountain course I am using a 36 x 28 on the 14% sections and it’s not easy so I would say this is realistic. Power output from the trainer and my Stages are pretty comparable.
– In Zwift workout mode you can’t have your power meter and trainer paired at the same time if you want to use ERG mode. Once in ERG mode the Drivo does an “ok” job of adjusting the resistance. I did part of an SST workout today where the blocks were 5 min at 250, 5 min at 250, etc. The Drivo will not hold the power exactly at the target wattage but varies by approx. +/- 15w. You don’t really feel the fluctuations while pedaling and on average you will be pretty close to target. If you change cadence it will take a few (5-10) second for the Drivo to adjust back to target.
– TrainerRoad: I did part of the Ride Fit Fiesta workout today to see how the Drivo would adjust to the target wattage (see screen shot). For the first 213 watt tempo block I was using powermatch with the Stages. The average was right on but the wattage fluctuated quite a bit from target. Half way through the rest interval I turned powermatch off to see how the Drivo would do on it’s own. That’s the spike you see in the power. When you pause a workout in TR (or Zwift for that matter) to get going again you will need about 500w until the trainer adjusts back to “normal”. This is annoying since the target at that point was 166w. The fluctuations in power seem a bit less with powermatch turned off although the average wattage seems a bit on the hight side of the the target. Overall I can live with these “inaccuracies” although I was hoping for a lot better as far as holding to the target power.
– Elite App on iPhone: Using the “Power” mode set to 100w the actual wattage is ~120. Adjusting up to 150w does almost nothing for about 1 minute and then the unit will adjust to somewhere in the neighborhood of 150w with a lot of fluctuation. Pretty much worthless. Using the “Workout” mode I tried workout #2 for a short time which consist of 120w and 160w 5 minute blocks. Again the app took forever to adjust to target and I had no confidence I was actually at the target wattage since the app does not even display the target. Maybe there are settings to show this but it’s not very intuitive on the iPhone.
Hopefully we will see some improvements with firmware updates although I’m not even sure how you can check if the firmware is up to date.
Kevin, your experience is pretty much the same as mine with the Elite app. When testing a new trainer I always try and use the vendor supplied software/apps to remove 3rd party variables; after all, if they can’t get it right, who can. Perhaps the conclusion here is that the elite app is at fault – “forever to adjust” is what I had, but I never had any obvious delays when using Zwift. Of course even saying that – the app will be on bluetooth and for me zwift on ANT…
Regarding your graph, it raises the question of “what is acceptable?” – certainly on my travels with friends, it seems that if you haven’t ever experienced how good it can be, you’re likely to accept whatever you’ve got. Ignorance is bliss :)
Elite told me that the spikes in power (on a constant effort segment) were normal and to be expected. My simple point is that I don’t get anywhere near that variation on my KICKR. So, it could be a lot better, and when a customer is parting with this kind of money, the experience should be “as good as it gets”.
Hi Lee, it’s not your unit that it’s faulty. Thanks to your notices we’ve found a bug in the fw. It happens only in particularly conditions: target power low but developed power higher (due to high speed) for some time and then the following step with small power increase. In this case, it takes a lot to change resistance.
It will be fixed soon with a fw upgrade.
Ray said > …. J – Note that TrainerRoad and Zwift don’t actually use the same modes, thus, why you see different experiences from stop. TR uses a true ERG mode, whereas Zwift is using a slope simulation. Hence why TR remains at a very hard to pedal resistance when you stop, because that ERG level is still applied. So if you leave it at 350w, it’ll be the same (the KICKR does the exact same thing).
Thanks for the response Ray, “true Erg” vs / “Slope simulation” certainly explains why Zwift and TR seem to behave subtly different.
Whilst some aspects of the Drivo as mentioned above are a little disappointing, certainly all of them can’t be blamed on Elite – and initial impressions are good. I also think it is safe to say that none of the new smart/interactive trainers are without there own particular “use bugs” or “quality bugs”, such as the occasional noisy Neo or bikes that don’t fit trainer X. So maintaining realistic expectations are the order of the day. My primary priority was dependable accuracy (my trainer bike will not have a power meter), and having done a few tests 100 watts, 150 watts, 200 watts, 250 watts all “feel” as they should (to the point that it is impressive) – other than the “OMG i am sweating hard” variety of extra effort.
As my first foray into Smart trainers, as someone who has only briefly used a friend’s dumb trainer (the reaction to the dumb trainer was “this is an awful experience”) – the answer to the question “Does a smart trainer make the experience bearable?”, the answer is a definite YES. Ergo training means you really don’t have to pay attention, and the distraction of TV shows/podcast/music and glancing at Zwift or TR certainly makes the time pass. But …. it is still an experience to bear and not the fun of the open road, but i have been surprised at how enthusiastic i have been to play with my new toy.
Hi Lee,
related to the “spikes” during the training with Drivo, we consider that as normal. In fact, the measurement system of the Drivo is very accurate, so it detects the various “level” of power developed by the rider, even the small difference of 10-20 Watts.
I understand that you’re referring to the chart that you see when using TR with Kickr but those data are not accurate as there is an heavy smooth.
In order to claim this, we’ve used a Kickr (fw version 1.4.46) and used 2 computers with TrainerRoad. One TrainerRoad connected to the Kickr and the other connected to the SRM power meter of the bike. Then we started the program contemporaneously, so the 2 TrainerRoad recorded exactly the same training data. This is the result:
Kickr:
SRM:
As you can see, even with Kickr there are a lot of spikes. Likely Kickr uses a bigger smooth on power data and this means not punctual data.
Yes, compared to Drivo, the spikes with Kickr are smaller (data of the SRM) but this is due to the smaller energy that Kickr flywheel can store (at 30km/h Drivo flywheel stores 1020J, while Kickr stores about 600J). In fact, with less energy, each pedal stroke gives produces smaller torque and thus smaller spikes.
In any case, in order to improve the Drivo (and considering your claims), we’ve decided to make a modification and let the user decides the level of smooth of the power measurement. The user will be able to set the quantity of smoothness from the app as he prefers. In this way, our users will the power data as they prefer. Actual or more smoothed.
In the meantime, you can use the “Power Smoothing” settings of TrainerRoad. This setting makes your data much smoother.
that sounds a useful modification but I’m not sure you have understood me correctly.
On TrainerRoad I was NOT looking at the power graph recorded from the KICKR. I have stated numerous times that this is artificially smooth.
I performed two tests, one with the Drivo and another on my KICKR. In both tests I recorded the power from my Powertap P1 pedals. So in reality what I’m actually testing are the units speed to respond to power changes, how quickly they settle after a power change and how smooth the recorded power is for any set level.
I dislike the smoothing option in TrainerRoad as it introduces delays to resistance changes (or at least, it did when I last tested it – software is continually changing!), similarly I’ve found that the delays caused by using PowerMatch in the control loop can introduce bigger inaccuracies than a slightly “wrong” trainer.
As another point, the reason I’m very fussy about these differences is that I’m a Sufferfest user. Some of the sufferfest workouts are very dynamic in nature with a lot of resistance changes and small intervals and these can be made extremely more difficult if a trainer is overshooting resistance targets or not settling into the target power accurately.
I appreciate the feedback though, many thanks indeed :)
Lee, in my opinion is quite normal. In ERG mode the trainer try to hold the imposed value, and react to the force that you put on pedal.
I mean that if you force a little bit more on the pedal, the PM of the Drivo will record it (and display the value on the graph). Following this, the drivo react decreasing the brake (in order to bring your effort inside the imposed value).
It’s a normal fluctuation,
Perhaps you did not notive it on the kickr because it broadcast (via ANT+) the ERG imposed value and not the real effort that you put on the pedal….
You did not read my comment correctly, sorry. I am using powertap p1 pedals in both cases to record the power. So the pedals will pick up every single slight change. The KICKR was able to maintain a much smoother power profile.
Boh. I never tried the Kickr. I have a powerbeam pro (and hopefully next weekend also a Drivo) and in ERG mode it has the same beahviour of the Drivo (per your description)….
Possibly. The Tacx Neo does something similar. It may simply be that using a KICKR with TrainerRoad is more refined
a) as the KICKR has been available for ages
b) The TrainerRoad staff all use KICKRs
I’m a TR guy, so for me, the trainer needs to work well with TR.
Just as a minor note on this. If using TR with the KICKR2, it’s actually faking what you see as power, so it’ll look crazy smooth, when in reality, it’s not. Check out my KICKR2 In-Depth review for more details on that, and how Wahoo is going to fix it.
Just noting for the purposes of comparing Apples to Apples.
Great to see some real world reviews being put forward and it appears Elite are on the case, which is great. I have not had chance to use the ERG mode as yet but rode the mountain route on Zwift over the weekend and was like night and day from my old set up. I did have a Stages so have ridden to power but was on a Cyclops Fluid. There is nowhere to hide on a smart trainer and the ride up to the radio mast with its 13% gradient was a little too real, in a good way though.
I am really happy with my Drivo experience to date, perhaps I may find it a little more frustrating once I decide on my winter training plan and start using the ERG function, time will tell.
Just waiting on Zwift sorting the Bluetooth issues out and I can make sure this functionality works properly.
Great to see Elite support in the comments, reassuring to see them active in the comments.
While they are around, i would like to suggest adding a “Mechanic Mode” to the iOS app.
(Assuming this function would be possible)
If you need to make adjustments to your rear mech alignment, it would be great if you could put the training into a mode (“Mechanic Mode”) on the iOS app, so that you could freely turn the pedals quickly with very little resistance to make adjustments (like you would on a workstand) to the front and rear mechs.
So, seems that Drivo has some serious issues in ERG mode. I really wonder how the hell Ray got in his TrainerRoad 30×30 repeats so nice perfect results as almost all others who have bought or tested the Drivo have much more variability. And I just yesterday ordered my Drivo ? , based on this review… should have read updated comments. Already regretting deeply, should have bought Kickr instead. Bloody hell 1300€+shipping is not a small money to spend.
What was the wattage difference on your 30×30’s? (i.e. what watt to what watt?)
(Also see note above from Elite on a specific case which is causing some folks problems on TR and ERG mode, for which they are releasing a firmware update: link to dcrainmaker.com)
I’m trying to do some proper ANT+ Trainerroad ERG mode testing this weekend and post some screenshot here too. Maybe my problems were caused by Bluetooth connection issues (hopefully).
Here’s some data from my ride tonight. “Steamboat” on Trainerroad (I did not have the legs for anything more challenging). This workout consists of 4 main intervals with rest periods in between. I connected Trainerroad to the Drivo via Ant+ FEC. I also had a Stages PM but did not use this (no powermatching). During the low power warm-up the Drivo was not adjusting to target but once I hit the 1st interval it adjusted quickly to the target. During rest periods the Drivo could not adjust low enough (104w) and was always ~10-20w above target. For each of the main intervals, however, the Drivo was within 1w of target on average and even during the small step downs the Drivo adjusted quickly with no lag. The precision (per Trainerroad) during these interval was between ~88-95%. I consider this to be pretty good. My cadence during each interval was very consistent. Hopefully the low power adjusting issue I was experiencing will be corrected with the firmware update Elite discussed above.
First ride today, and all seemed pretty good. I have powertap P1 pedals, and just eyeballing instant power, and average over a short ride, they were in agreement pretty much to within a watt, so that’s pretty encouraging so far.
Incredibly we are now a household with no PC which has a DVD drive, so I can’t install software off their DVD. I tried downloading from the site, but when I run it, it says its “probably the wrong version” and hangs up. I had a previous software version installed for the e-motion rollers which I’ve had for a couple of years. I did uninstall that.
So I don’t know whether the downloaded version only works as an update, or there is some “echo” of the previous version on there confusing it.
Turns out the Elite uninstall process isn’t 100% and leaves some entries in the Windows Registry. I went in and removed the Elite folder in the registry, then tried installing again, and it ran successfully.
Hi hhbiker,
the installation checks the compatibility with the installed software and in case of different type of trainer it blocks the installation. This check has been implemented as many users downloaded and installed the wrong version of software. In this way we prevent many users from installing the wrong version of the sw.
Related to uninstallation. The installation process has been modified a couple of years ago to fix this problem. Now it prompts for a complete uninstallation that removes everything related to the Real software.
My experience was that I received a warning, but it did not prompt me to uninstall the old version. However I guessed that might be needed, so I did uninstall the old version. When I went through the uninstall process it asked whether I wanted to do a “full” uninstall which deletes all the data, and I said No. That wasn’t good enough, because the new version would still not install. However now there was no way repeat the uninstall. So I had to manually find and remove the data files. Even that wasn’t enough – I then had to manually edit the Windows Registry to remove the registry entries.
So a suggestion for the future would be to embed an option in the new software which prompts to remove all the old software.
Hy Kevin! My current main observations and conclusions about Drivo are the same as yours. My setup: Drivo connected to Trainerroad as ANT+FEC, signal strength excellent (No powermatching). Power2max powermeter on the bike connected to Garmin 800. On the positive side – Drivo’s powermeter seems to be really accurate and by eyeballing Garmin 3sec average power vs Trainerroad displayed power they seem to be very consistent.
Negative side: As you say, Drivo basically can’t adjust power on lower power levels around 100W and below. Also while Drivo outputs excellently accurate power values to Trainerroad (so you get your real workload stored) the adjusting of the power level when cadence or Trainerroad power targets are changing takes some time. When starting an intervall it takes Drivo at least around 1 minute to stabilize. I think on longer intervals, e.g. over 10 minutes it’s not a problem at all. I actually think that this relatively slow power adjustment results in quite realistic “road feeling” so doing long steady intervals or ride simulations with Drivo should be nice and I guess mean power values will be accurate. But in my current experience with Drivo it’s quite useless with short, realitvely low power intrevals around 200W – for example 30 sec or 1-2 minute intervals. I guess that for such kind of workouts I will still use my KurtKinetic Roadmachine. Below quite ugly picture of my such 30 sec testintervals. Not sure what about high sprint intervals with Drivo – haven’t had time to test this yet.
Tough to say. Hammer won’t make my trainer recommendations list for high-end trainers tomorrow, for the simple fact that I think it’s going to be quite some time until we see it. My bet is we won’t see it till December.
It may be a great trainer, and certainly the odds look that way. But alas, it’s had a complete internal overhaul since the last time I tested it some 5 months ago, so I just don’t have a solid grasp on what the production models will look like.
Okay, now that the Hammer is out. Hammer or Drivo for Zwift? Would be doing Workout Mode with things like Sweet Spot intervals and also things like 2min@450W as well as maybe the Zwift races. Does either one have an edge or deficiency for the Workout Mode?
Also, what do you think would be the best way to do Tabatas on either of these? It’s not a specific power, so I was thinking just use a stretch of gradually climbing road in Zwift, just like I would in real life. I can hit about 1200W in the first few reps of a Tabata, any issue with that on either of these?
Bought the Drivo… and now I’m trying to set it up. While it connects to my Mac with the Ant+, it seems to drop in and out. Ray – and others – have you had any difficulty with this? Is it perhaps the ant+ adapter that connector that comes with the Drivo? On TrainerRoad it connects, the but the signal strength constantly varies between Excellent-Good-Poor. More importantly, it only seems to maintain a connection for a brief period after first connecting to TrainerRoad and when actually mid-ride, though it has dropped off multiple times mid-ride as well.
Thanks and any help you can provide is appreciated!
How far away is the ANT+ adapter from the Drivo? And is there anything else that might be nearby that could interfere (WiFi access point, wireless phone)?
About five feet away from the trainer. As for interfering devices, the only thing would be Wi-fi. Everythign else is turned off specifically to avoid this. I even deleted my Garmin Edge 850 from my cadence sensor and heart rate monitor just to be sure nothing else gets in the way.
Had no issues with ANT+ connection, I am however using a Garmin adaptor which I purchased last year when I started on Zwift. It is plugged into a USB extension lead and about 3ft away from the DRIVO. Not tried the Elite one it came with.
As I train in the garage off the side of the house I have my Mac connected via an ethernet to lighting adaptor to a Devolo plug in range extender. I then create a wifi hotspot from my Mac to connect my iPhone/iPad to so I can use the zwift app on the same network along with Spotify for some tunes. No interference issue
Thanks, Paul. I’ll get the Garmin USB device ordered and an extension cable and report back. I don’t know that I have an ethernet cable long enough to make a wi-fi hotspot, so you’ve out-teched me there.
The one worry I have is the diffrences between Zwift and TrainerRoad. It seems like Zwift and Elite have worked closely together. TrainerRoad is barely mentioned on Elite’s website, but Zwift is clearly mentioned, so maybe that’s part of the issue?
Ha, ha, I am a luddite when it comes to IT, just did a lot of reading and trial and error last year getting the strongest internet connection and ANT+ connection I could out in my garage. It appears the Zwift ANT connection issues have been ironed out since last winter as so far so good. Waiting on the Bluetooth connection issues to be ironed out. You are right all the manufacturers look to have worked to be on board with Zwift as like me there are lots of new customers out there to be tapped into who have signed up to virtual training.
I have used the Sufferfest videos in the past and found them to be good and might have a little go with the 7 day trial to see how well they interact with the DRIVO but as Zwift works so well for me will likely delve into the training programmes for my winter training.
Just to close up the loop: I got a new USB ANT+ dongle, it worked a lot better. Ironically, it is literally identical to the first. So, I think I just got a bum unit. Just did testing on TrainerRoad and I could not be happier with how the resistance operated.
I got the Elite Drivo this week and after finally get my Cassette I was able to test the Drivo last night. Before I get into the Drivo I have to say, compared to my cousins KICKR2; the Drivo is a bit more quieter on the drive train side as well as the trainer itself. My cousins bike is a fairly new Specialized Tarmac with Dura Ace Di2 components with around 1200 miles on it. We also mounted my year old FELT Z75 Disc with 105 and had an issue with the rear caliper hitting the handle on the side of the KICKR2 so I had to unbolt the caliper to mount my bike. I was very surprised how loud the KICKR2 was compared to my Drivo, it almost sounds like it’s going to take off the faster you spin in the saddle. Both bikes had noisy a drive train on the KICKR2…
I also noticed the Drivo was a bit smoother when pedaling, could be me picking apart the KICKR2 so my cousin is going to come over with his KICKR2 on weekend so we can compare the 2 trainers. He might return the KICKR2 since his only had it for 2 weeks, he already hates the spin down process you have to do every ride and he isn’t very fond of the noise it makes.
I’m pretty happy with the Elite Drivo so far. I was able to complete my weekly FTP with good confidence and feeling. But I will say compared to my Elite Qubo Smart+ it’s a lot harder to gauge when to apply more or less power when going from 135w, 410w back down to 135w. I’m so used to the feeling on the Elite Qubo, there’s always resistance when spinning from low to high gears, where as with the Drivo it’s like riding a bike outside where you get free wheel spin from applying a lot of power and then backing off. Something I have to get used :p
Now the bad stuff. I did have some weird issues with Zwift not picking up my pedaling; Watts stayed at 0 and my virtual rider in the sim wouldn’t move. Once I changed the sensor from ANT+ to FE-C for power meter and smart trainer, then things started to work as should. For some reason when looking at the sensors, I noticed the Drivo lists 3 different sensor types for the same thing, but the names are a little different for each listing like with the Power Meter sensor (Elite Real Trainer FE-C, Elite Real Trainer ANT+, Elite Power Meter). I was able to mount my FELT without having to remove my rear caliper. I don’t like that the Drivo is white because all the chain grease gets on the trainer and makes it look bad. Maybe I need more practice mounting to a direct drive trainer… I also think Elite could do a better job with the instructions on how to install the cassette and also where to place the axle pieces, a diagram with step by step instructions would of been nice. All you have is a schematic in the back with parts a diagram, not very helpful at all…
I’ll add more comments in the future once I get more acquainted with the Drivo :)
100% agreed that the setup instructions are very bad. I still have a few parts left over and I don’t know if I did it all wrong or what might have happened. Maybe someone could do a setup video somewhere? I searched all over and couldn’t find anything.
You raise a good point which I found and mentioned to the shop I was testing it for……the instructions are crap, and if you fit just the road adapter you can get your skewer done up tight, but its not gripping the frame at all – you need the very thick washer as well. Potential for someone jumping on and falling over, cracking their frame I think.
Lee: Could you clarify on that a bit more? I think I may have left the washer off. Not sure what is supposed to go in what order. I will plead idiocy mechanically on this, but I want to be sure I am not risking damage to my frame.
I know exactly what Lee is talking about. Luckily I have a bit of experience with my old trainer when things aren’t solid what can happen. In fact when we mounted my FELT to my cousins KICKR2, we didn’t realize my rear caliper was resting on the trainer so my bike wasn’t snug, I jumped on to start a ride and almost fell off…
Depending on if your bike is 130mm or 135mm in the rear. you’ll need to use that thick washer I circled in DC’s pic if your bike is 135mm. Took my a little to figure that out, again I can’t stress how much Elite needs to come up with a step by step diagram on how to mount your bike correctly. If I didn’t know better and just jumped on without the washer I would of fallen off my bike!!!
Anthony: I just realized I didn’t make it clear enough for the washer instructions. Take that washer and slide it over the samller nipple piece to the left in that pic. You’ll notice how much better your bike tightens up if it’s 135mm in the rear.
Yes, the gap is in between where the axle goes, I included a pic that will take all the guess work out ;)
I’m also a noob when it comes to bicycles, I’m learning my self since I just got into road biking for now 1 year. But I love working on cars so I kind of can relate to the mechanics part. Only thing that scares me is when messing with the derailleurs, which can be such a cumbersome process…
While I totally agree the instructions are confusing and poor for the Kura/Drivo, I would point out there actually is text for each step…it’s just totally in the wrong part of the booklet.
The first few pages of the booklet are the little diagrams, which we’re all familiar with. The problem is, the corresponding text for those steps is split up by language, and most of us don’t bother to then look in the right section for it.
(I only know this from recently trying to figure it out again on the Kura myself…)
UPDATE: I was able test out my Drivo a little more over the week. I was a using a Amazon Basics 3f USB extension cable with my ANT+ sensor pointing toward my trainer from the table I have my laptop sitting on, there’s probably a distance of 6 to 7 feet between the ANT+ sensor and the Drivo. When using that cable my Watts would fluctuate quite a bit and sometimes I would get drop outs so I would have to move the cable a little more over.
I bought a new 15f cable with a repeater from Amazon for $11 and I couldn’t be happier with the results. My Watts aren’t fluctuating know where near as much and no more drop outs :) This made a huge improvement with simulating downgrades and upgrades. I still have a BIG grin on my face with how well this trainer works with resistance on hilly terrain in Zwift.
Forgot to add link to the 15f Cable and I also attached another pic so you can kind of gauge the distance of my workstation table to where my trainer sits
Hey DC, were you able to test the ERG mode on the Drivo? Had some issues last night and sent this to Elite’s support this morning:
I tested the ERG mode on my new Elite Drivo last night and I had some issues where the resistance wasn’t working correctly on my FTP training in Zwift. For some reason in the middle of my ride the Drivo would turn up the resistance to it’s maximum when going from 135w to 220w and vice versa. I would have to stop peddling for the ERG mode to disable before I could turn the cranks again. This was very discouraging since I’ve used the Drivo in non-ERG mode and the resistance worked flawlessly when riding Utopia hills with downgrades and upgrades
I’m using the Drivo with ANT+ FE-C with a 15f repeater USB cable, the ANT+ sensor is sitting right next to the Drivo. I haven’t had any other issues with the Drivo. Would like to open a support ticket to see if this issue can be resolved.
When ERG mode was working correctly, it was awesome since I could concentrate more on my FTP training and not have to worry about changing gears and keeping my watts at the correct level.
I’m attaching a link to my Strava analysis from last night, you can see in the cadence section where it drops to 0, that’s when the trainer was turning up the resistance to max:
I tried ERG mode within TrainerRoad and also from FE-C on a Garmin head unit (No issues for me). For Zwift, I was using the non-workout mode, so that’s not ERG mode. I haven’t tried Zwift in workout mode with the Drivo.
I wonder what impact the TR “Powermatch” function has on the smoothness of the recorded power by trainerroad? How did you have TR set up Ray?
From reading the link below, it seems disabling powermatch impacts the smoothness?
I noticed that my TR setting are set to “use power meter to control trainer” – in Trainer Road “Devices” Power Meter and Controllable Trainer is set to Drivo.
I have disabled powermatch and will see tomorrow what impact it has over recorded power graph.
Powermatch has little to no effect on a constant effort interval, provided that you maintain a smooth steady cadence. However in my experience Powermatch has never made things better, only worse, both from a smoothness and “speed of resistance change” concept. Its not hard to see why, under normal circumstances TR just needs to send an ERG wattage to the trainer and then the trainer has to do all the work in matching that, and just sends back its power figures every . As soon as you introduce powermatch you’ve got a 3 way chat where your external PM reports to TR, that compares to what your trainer is showing, TR makes a subtle change on your trainer, then the loop continues. To be frank, unless your trainer reported power is a long way off from your external PM, Powermatch is to be avoided, certainly I’ve never seen it make a workout more accurate, only less.
In terms of graph smoothing, with PowerMatch enabled, TR is recording the power from your external PM. This will be “real world” and spikey in nature. If smooth graphs are your desire, then something which artificially smooths the output (KICKR) is the way to go.
Thought it was worth mentioning, as i just noticed that Trainer Road (on OSX) defaults to powermatch, and i was not sure the correct setting. Reading TR’s documentation about powermatch suggested that “Drivo as PM device & Drivo as Controllable trainer” might bring issues.
I am not interested in artificially smoothed graphs, and in Resistance Mode (and on the Road) i can pretty easily maintain +/-5% on a 1 second Av display.
I was suspicious that, like you mention, powermatch might introduce some form of crosstalk that might interfere with optimal operation, and might explain some of the inaccuracies experienced by some ITT.
Will do an Ergo Session tonight, as see if behaviour improves. I have also a 5 meter repeater (and claimed signal boosting) active USB cable.
I’m currious, can you recall if while you were doing your tests of this trainer with the covers off did you notice if it was any more quiet than with the covers on? I would think the plastic covers would add some level of rumble to the machine.
£1 – USD1.2
Rubbish at the moment TBH, Brexit!! :(
That said these prices are with a 12% discount on the website
Its going to be a permanent set up, not bikes in and out. They all look like they tick the boxes, but for probably 3 sessions per week for 4-5 months I can justify the spend. Learned early on that you should always go for the best you can afford. If you are serious about training you wont regret it in the long run when put against the time spent sweating.
Elite commented that the huge complexity of the Neo virtual fly wheel, with a hugely increased number of possible things to go wrong is a big factors on their choice to stick with a big, heavy fly wheel.
Neo is an amazing bit of kit, but what is the longevity? Have you, Ray, experienced only the QA (off the assembly line) issues?
Yes for QA issues on NEO. I managed to get a unit this summer that has metal bits inside it, as have other readers as recently as last week. I fail to understand why it’s still occuring.
In general, if you get the unit and it sounds funky on Day 1, just return it. Some folks have seen it quiet after the first ride, but I wouldn’t risk it. All issues related are purely noise, and don’t impact functionality. But of course, the reason you’re paying extra is noise reduction.
I’ve heard of no longer-life issues on NEO though, so assuming you make it through Day 1, you’re golden.
Thanks for the prompt reply, Ray! I’ll wait for your (in-depth) reviews of other trainers (Flux,Neo, Hammer,etc.) and then pull the trigger. BTW, the Zwiftcast #9 was excellent!
You could indeed take the one off your rear wheel then fit it to the Drivo. Then you can reverse the process when you then want to ride your bike on the road OR Elite could have just included a skewer like it does with the cheaper Rampa so you don’t have to stuff around every time you want to jump on the trainer.
Comes across as a penny-pinching move on a top of the range product….
“(Do ensure you get a trainer skewer, and not just a regular skewer)”
Can you be more explicit, please? Why? What is the difference between them?
Thanks again!
“(Do ensure you get a trainer skewer, and not just a regular skewer)”
Definitely you need a trainer skewer if you have a non direct drive trainer… but on direct drive trainer, I don’t understand what should be wrong using the normal skewer…
Anyone?
Thanks…
Any rear wheel skewer will work just fine. I’m not sure why Ray was recommending a trainer skewer since they are meant for rear wheel drive trainers. Maybe he was recommending one because they are typically made of steel and theoretically stronger than a standard skewer and/or just to free up your “regular” skewer for use in non-trainer rides?
For the company not to include the items needed to get started using the equipment is bad. Few people would have the skewer needed to fit the trainer. I’ve seen LLAMA use a phone book under the front wheel, WTF? And if you are a Campagnolo fan boy like me you got pay an extra $70 US for the free hub body on this trainer. Add it all up and why wouldn’t I choose a NEO instead? Elite, nevermind, I won’t say it.
FWIW, the cog spacing on 11 speed cassettes (shimano and campagnolo) is the same. You can buy a cheap Ultegra 6800 cassetts (probably $25 – $30 from probikekit or ribble) and use it with the rest of the campagnolo drive train with no issues. Also, if you are training in erg mode, you will rarely (if not never) need to shift. I use the Kickr with an 11 speed ultegra cassette with a campagnolo drive train on TR and Zwift with no issues. So, save your money, get a cheap ultegra 6800 cassette and you will be good to go.
Thanks Bikegeek. That is good info but I’m afraid I didn’t get it in time. I dropped the coin on a NEO last weekend and a Campy Centaur 10 spd cassette. I wanted a 30T cog for the climbs. I already own TTS4 so the NEO was the best choice for me I suppose. I didn’t think about Shimano and Campy compatibility but I have recently looked into it and wish I would have known sooner. The cassette I bought was $160 US which is damn overkill when one thinks about being raped. Honestly I don’t know why I stick with Campagnolo. Thanks for your help though.
Guess i will provide google with some useful answers.
Will the Elite Drivo work with a medium cage rear derailleur? (Neo has issue)
Yes (for Shimano it has clearance, only a couple of mm space at rear/lower pulley so can’t confirm SRAM)
Does the Elite Drivo have clearance for disc brake calipers?
Yes. Post Mount / Chainstay Disc Capilers have plenty of clearance
(unlike Neo where caliper often has to be removed)
Received the Drivo, but bluetooth is not working – when power up, the middle led is not blinking at all… Did this happens to any of you, guys? And when pedaling seems to be very hard, even if using small ring and big sproket… Feeling perplexed… :(
@RazvanC Make sure your Bluetooth device is already searching before turning on the Drivo. Also what worked for me is being in Zwift already and then powering on the Drivo, Zwift picked it up right away. I don’t use BT with my setup, but with playing around I noticed those things worked. I prefer the Ant+ sensor with a 15ft cable velcroed to the Drivo:
Also the Drivo is very hard to pedal when it’s not connected to Zwift. Once you set up your ride and hop on, it’ll release the resistance and you’ll be able to pedal with ease. I can turn the pedals by hand with a bit of force, but when it’s on the low cog it is pretty hard to turn so I try to remember to leave the chain on the big cog after finishing a ride, which I’ve been told also helps preserve your rear derailleur when not in use.
I’m extremely happy with my Drivo so far, BIG upgrade to my old Elite Qubo Smart+ trainer as it should with a $1000 difference :p
@M&Ms, thanks for your answer…I think the problem is my Drivo do not search on bluetooth (this should normaly do when power up.. searching both protocolos: bluetooth and ANT+ and when pair first, disable searching on the other…) Mine is searching only on ANT+ (only the green led in blinking)… :(
My trainer always blinks all 3 lights when first powering on. BT only blinks for a little bit, but that’s most likely because I have Ant+ enabled and that lights stop blinking once it connects to the Ant+ sensor and stays lit red for Ant+ and Green for power.
Try downloading the myETraining app from the Playstore or Apple Store and troubleshoot with their app. Otherwise contact Elite’s support.
I have the same problem, however the Bluetooth feature is working as the drivo will connect to the trainerroad app on my ipad. take the little side panel off the trainer, the one with the sticker on, I bet like me you will find that the middle blue LED is missing:( . thought it was just my trainer, hmmm…..
Thanks for your comments, M&Ms!
By the big cog, you mean the smallest one (16t or 17t) , right? I leave the chain on the smallest one to preserve a RR when not in use.
LED missing? OMG! I wasn’t be able to pair it using Myetraining application on phone or ipad… In the app, I can see Trainer, Speed and Cadence Sensor, Power – but when pedaling shows no activity on the aplication, like it it not paired… :( And the green LED still blinking (searching) – this means the Bluetooth is not paired… So, in my case I think it is more than a missing LED… Waiting for a reply from Elite support…
Very odd your having issues with the BT. And scary for IJH to say they had to remove a panel to see if BT light is blinking. Sounds like you may of gotten a test unit?
Hopefully Elite Support will come to the rescue. Elite has such potential to be great with the Drivo, but they really lack in the support department. I can’t even find a soft copy of the Drivo manual on their website. Maybe you can do a factory reset on the trainer, look and see if has that in the manual. Would be awesome to have it in PDF format so you can search for key words when troubleshooting.
I’ve only had one hiccup so far with EGR mode not working correctly, but it hasn’t happened again so maybe it was just the one off.
RazvanC, keep us all informed on what happens with support. Good Luck!!!
I contacted Elite over the issue of high resistance and it is simply a matter of waiting for that hum it makes to finish. Also their app does not pair or connect to the drivo until you press the start button.
When you first plug it in, you should just care about seeing blinking lights and some humming tones and wait until that stops. Without connecting it to anything, you should be able to pedal with your feet. It will be hard at first because of the flywheel but then it will be easier.
Once you are pedaling then connect with the app and you will be just fine.
If you are pedaling and should decide to stop for some reason, depending on your current speed and if you are in erg mode, it can be hard to restart because the resistance will depend on the speed. If you want to restart without the high resistance, you need to wait 10 seconds before pedaling again or basically wait until you hear a humming sound again. It will reset to a lower resistance after 10 seconds.
Hello again,
I was satisfied with Elite support; I gave them all the details and they decided that the trainer is faulty and offer a replacement, so I received a new trainer with no issue as far as I know :)
Just I don’t know how or if is there any chance to make adjustments on rear derailleur as it is very difficult to spin with the hand…
Any ideea?
Thanks
I have two questions, very grateful for any input:
Is there a way to see pedal power balance on a Garmin head unit (820)? I love the accurate power meter on this thing, and I assume it understands balance because they offer pedalling dynamics in the myetraining app.
On a related point, I have a subscription set up in the app, but it still asks me to pay for pedaling dynamics, so I haven’t actually looked at that bit yet. Ray’s review of the app in the training app roundup (great roundup by the way) implied it is free, but when I contacted Elite, they told me this piece is the only bit *not* included in the subscription.
hi there,
thanks ray for the review and to all the the contributors to this thread, very helpful. i have just taken delivery of my new drivo trainer but i am experiencing a little difficulty mounting a shimano ultegra 11 speed cassette in that the sprockets are still slightly loose when the lock nut is tightenened up. my question is, do i need to use any of the two supplied spacers with the 11 speed cassette?, as my understandig was that :-
11 speed = 0 spacers
10 speed = 1 spacer
9 speed = 2 spacers
any advice would be much apreciated. thanks
I used 2 of the rings they came with the Drivo and used all of the spacers that came with my Shimano 105 11spd and everything is nice and tight for me.
Thanks m&ms for your reply. Your answer begs two questions:-
1) Do you need to adjust your rear derailleur much from your bike setting if using the spacers for 11 speed cassettes?
2) if spacers are required for all speed cassettes, why does elite include them and not just produce a freehub that does not require any?
The spacer thing is annoying and confusing, especially as in the manual (often a pretty bad translation) they say for 10/9 speed use the spacers, then in the very next bullet section repeat themselves and use spacer – but i think they have just not pluralised spacer in the second instance.
having checked measurements – each spacer is 1mm.
Shimano’s own specification to convert an 11 speed hub to 10 speed is to use a 1.85mm spacer – but many cheap 11->10 speed spacers are actually 2mm. Elite’s choice to go with 2 x 1mm spacers does confuse things – Especially considering the following.
A ten speed hub, is actually a nine speed hub – the early 10 speed cassettes actually came with a(nother) spacer (1mm) – this is referenced in the Tacx Neo manual – as some 10 speed cassettes have (what Tacx call) a “pocket” on the rear. So if your 10 speed cassette has a “pocket” you would use the Shimano (supplied with cassette) original 1mm spacer + the EDCO 2mm spacer (provided with the Neo), and if your 10 speed cassette doesn’t have a “pocket” (such as the SRAM 1030) you just use the 2mm EDCO spacer. The instructions are different for Campagnolo, and i have put a link to the Neo Cassette instructions at the bottom of this post.
So basically for the Drivo, Elite supplied 2 x 1mm spacers.
This means:
11 speed Shimano. No spacers.
10 speed Shimano (no pocket). Both 2 x 1mm Elite spacers.
10 speed Shimano (with pocket). Both 2 x 1mm Elite spacers + 1mm Shimano cassette spacer.
9 speed Shimano. Both 2 x 1mm Elite spacers.
Hope that has cleared it up. Perhaps not. Personally i use a 1.85mm Shimano spacer just to be difficult (and because i use one on the wheelset – and it *might* make a difference to indexing … only in my head possibly).
hi j,
thank you for your comprehensive answer, just what I was looking for! it confirms my train of thought of 11 speed cassette requiring zero spacers. now I need to fathom out why my cassette won’t tighten up correctly……
>fathom out why my cassette won’t tighten up correctly……
one of your cogs will not be quite seated properly. it is a tight fit, and one (most likely one of the smaller two) will not be quite seated properly. It can be difficult to see eyeballing it – especially as (unlike a wheel where you can go thread down from above) mounting in on a trainer you are threading them on from the side.
The other issue (also made more difficult by “side-threading” of a direct drive trainer) is that the lockring can be difficult to catch the threads and has to be absolutely flat.
It can (and was for me) a little frustrating, but taking off / remounting the last couple of cogs, being sure they are seated fully, and patiently trying to catch the thread with the locking flat will work eventually.
well… got my new drivo today and got testing, my initial thoughts? well its going straight back to the shop. I found that working with tacx tts4 and running a Mallorca rlv to be fair, it was quite acceptable, in fact quite realistic in that I have personally rode the same route, and the power changes were on a par with my tacx trainer I use with tts. so far so good, but using trainerroad in ergo mode well this thing just sucks. I experienced exactly the same results as lee, the thing is all over the place. now the main purpose of buying this unit is to do ergo training on trainerroad as I have been doing the last three years or so. during this period I have been using a cycleops powerbeam pro and this tracks and adjusts to the ergo power profile smoothly, no spikes or troughs. my only issue with the powerbeam is that it takes approx. 10 – 15 seconds to adjust to the wattage changes which is no big deal with longer intervals but not so good using the sufferfest videos. I was hoping this trainer might improve things there but sadly not, so back to the powerbeam until the Cyclops hammer or magnus trainers become available.
Bummer, have you reached out to TrainerRoad to see if they have any further details?
Also – how far away is your trainer from the ANT+ stick? That long of adjustment is crazy long, and almost implies something is retrying a command over and over again. TrainerRoad can pull up the log session from that particular workout and give more details.
The unit I tested had similar ERG mode issues. Despite trying to hold a fixed cadence/power it consistently changed resistance when not necessary, forcing me far outside the values I was trying to hold. Power would be on a constant rise and fall from target as it over-compensated in both directions. I would go from 200w @ 100rpm to 220w @ 95rpm then down to 180w @ 120rpm. Rinse and repeat every few minutes – not fun.
I believe the Drivo is responding too quickly to changes in power, with no regard for cadence and flywheel speed (a smoothed value which would indicate no need to change resistance). Other trainers such as the Kickr and Neo have managed to keep me at a fixed cadence without issue. If you can hold power +/-10w with no leg bias or injury I suspect the Drivo will be happy.
It was a great trainer in all other areas. A firmware fix could solve the ERG issues.
I have an open ticket with them for the same issue. I told them to look at this blog since I’m not the only one having this issue with ERG mode. This was the response I received yesterday:
Hi Mark
Please do a training in ERG mode.
Do 4-5 segments with different power for any of them (1′ at 150W, 2′ at 250W, 1′ at 200W…). Then send me a graph with the results (Strava is ok).
Regards
Elite srl
In my previous email I was told it wasn’t an ERG training and that it was a slope training, which made no sense to me, since in Zwift you have the option to turn the ERG mode on or off before creating your training ride… Also in FTP training mode, I notice the trainer doesn’t respond to climbs and descents which makes sense.
I think I’m going to record my session the next time I test and send it to them, a video speaks 1000 words compared to just sending them analysis results from a ride…
The Elite Software (DVD’s) that came with the Drive is for Windows.
I’ve read that some people have it working under Parallels Desktop or VMware Fusion.
Have you had problems with the trainer not being stable because of the rear legs are slightly bent??
I bought a Drivo from Mantel a while ago. I struggled with setting it up since the instructions were the worst I’ve ever seen! Once set up and the bike was mounted i took it for a spin but it did not feel that stable. The floor where the trainer was standing is really old and flexy /squeaky so i moved it in to my living room without any success. I checked it from all angles and noticed that only one pad on the rear leg was in contact with the floor, hence standing on three legs. I contacted mantel and they asked me to send it back and were extremely quick when it came to sending a new as soon as they received mine, thumbs up! Now I’ve un-boxed the new one and before actually installing it i checked if it was stable. Guess what, it’s not! I’ve checked that the risers are on the same high and tested on different floors.
As I see it there are 3 possible scenarios:
1. they sent me my old one back!
2. I received a new with the exact same issue
3. As design???
So this is why i’m asking,Any one else have this issue. Maybe someone post an picture of their trainer standing on the floor?
Also bought mine from Mantel but it doesn’t look like that at all.
See the picture, it’s taken in the garage, a bit dark but you can see that it’s flat on the ground.
I am very disappointed to learn that the e-training app does not support slope mode training and the PC software does not support bluetooth heart rate sensors.
Can someone either confirm i am correct or explain to me the workaround for either of these cases. I typically like to use slope more for most of my base training and zone 2 days and use a bluetooth HR sensor.
If by slope mode you mean the trainer reacts to the gradient shown on the route in the app, it it certainly works on an ipad and works very well being much more realistic than my old Qubo digital.
Don’t know about PC as my laptop is too old to run Elite Real software ( which is a pain because as far as I understand all firmware updates will be through the Real software . I have asked Elite for a definitive answer but as yet have had no reply. The Real website doesn’t even list the Drivo as an option!!
Close. The slope mode on the PC software basically emulates resistance based on rear wheel speed. The faster the ‘rear wheel’ turn the higher the resistance. For me the major benefits are that when I am doing hours of zone 2 stuff (which will be 90% of my riding for the next 2 months) I can control resistance and cadence from my shifters while I am mind-numbingly absorbed into whatever Netflix series I am pushing through. I can also stretch out the legs and stand for short bursts just by shifting up a few gears.This is especially nice early in my off season after several weeks off the bike. My heart rate and power output tend not to be ‘coupled’ and power will reduce during my ride, I can just slow my cadence down a couple of RPM and loose 2-3 watts of resistance. I also like that while training this way I see less fluctuation in my power output, not so many overshoots and undershoots while the trainer corrects small deviations.
I guess the key for me here is that the same trainer using software from the same supplier has different levels of functionality. When that happens it never seems like one or the other has advantages, it always comes of as a compromise. I will probably just bite the bullet and get an ANT+ HR strap just for indoor training.
What are the best (if any?) apps that support bluetooth control for the Drivo from an iPad? Anything beyond myetraining? It’s a little unclear from the latest trainer guide or developers’ websites.
I’ve been using Sufferfest for the last couple of weeks and on the whole it works great. Only a few minor glitches when the drivo fails to change power quick enough.
FULGAZ looks good but I found out at the moment it does not support controlling Elite trainers, they are working on it and hoped to have that functionality soon.
Still waiting for Zwift on ios!!!
I’ve joined this blog a bit late but… I decided to buy a Drivo a few weeks ago then, changed my mind and waited for the Tacx Flux and got one last week. I was excited about the Flux before it arrived, but I wasn’t impressed with it after using it 3 times (Zwift, Bkool), so purchased a Drivo on Friday and arrived yesterday. :-)
I compared both trainers on the same 3 mile route on the Bkool app and this confirmed that the Drivo was a better trainer by far. It felt fantastic compared to the Flux! The Drivo gave the resistance up the climbs as soon as I was on them and I could feel the inertia of the flywheels… perfect!
I used Zwift on Friday and rode ‘Mountain 8’ using the Flux. I wasn’t impressed. The Flux seemed to limit the speed on the last climb to the radio mast to 6mph. Well, I had been stuck at this speed most of the way up and had upped the effort/cadence/gear to get more speed, but it wouldn’t have it. The feel on the downhills wasn’t great either feeling like hitting a strong headwind.
Today I used Zwift and rode ‘Mountain 8’ again but with the Drivo. As I started to climb Watopia, I was waiting for the gradient resistance to kick in… but it didn’t. A little but not much. I was on 50/21 (compact crank), cadence around 90rpm… and 6mph! I did hammer it at one point and the speed slowly went up to 8mph but it wasn’t like ‘reality’ in any way. I’d be at 20mph+ on the road.
When I reached the last climb to the radio mast, same 50/21, cadence 90rpm… and I was stuck at 4mph! Comparing the data from both Watopia rides and I was producing nearly twice the power at some points but going slower! I did see that the cadence was way too low when using the Flux but correct with the Drivo.
I’m going to try a longer ride using the Bkool app and see how the Drivo responds to the climbs, as it felt OK yesterday. If it doesn’t behave I will be sending that back as well as the Flux!
Previous trainer – Bkool Pro, 1100+ miles mainly last December – April.
Current bikes – Focus Izalco Max, Scott Addict 30, 2016 Stumpjumper Comp.
Current obsession – Buying the best smart trainer out there.
Thanks for sharing your impressions, Kevin! If the Drivo will not deliver, then you can still try the Neo, the Kickr2 or the the Hammer. Competition is great!
Ha ha!! I’ve been looking at all of these and they all have there good and bad points. The most important for me is how it responds to gradients either up or down. I think it might be a Zwift problem but I read Elite worked closely with Zwift developing the Drivo, so why was it so bad today?
If I can return my Drivo with no hassle I think I will hold on for a Cyclops Hammer. I can get a good deal on one but it will be first week in 2017 before I get it :-(
It was at the default 50%, but that shouldn’t be limiting the speed, should it? I would be able to go as fast as some of the other riders who flew past ;-)
It won’t impact speed, your end-state power numbers will. By using it at 50% difficulty, you’re basically going at half the grade. Ultimately, your power numbers control speed in Zwift.
Trainer difficulty setting is only for scaling resistance of your trainer. It doesn’t affect power output and therefore speed at all. You wouldn’t go any faster on lower difficulty settings. You’d just have to use harder gears to produce same power.
I asked about trainer difficulty setting because from what you wrote it seems like Drivo didn’t set enough resistance for Radio Tower climb. Also to go 20mph on this climb you would need to sustain way over 1000W for some time.
Hi Kevin
I’ve just been on zwift and it worked fine on the hills. In fact I was surprised at how quick it reacted to change in gradient
Did you select a workout the first time if so it will be in erg mode so speed won’t really change on the hills,I found this out yesterday.
At first I was I was also a bit cold on the drivo but the more I use and understand it the better it’s getting. Support from Elite is a bit hit and miss, they seem to respond to your first question but if you follow it up I’ve found you don’t get any reply and they have a habit of not really answering the question you asked.
I am still trying to find out how you update the drivo firmware if you only use mac/iOS all I get back is that updates will be available via real software(which is pic only)
I wasn’t in erg mode. I just went on a Mountain 8 ride. This was only the 3rd time I’ve used Zwift after 11 months using the Bkool app. I might try it again as I seem to be the only one with this problem. I have an idea of what it might be, bit it’s only an idea.
Haha, yeah in this case I think the difficulty setting of 50% really makes it seem not as steep as it really is. A 16% climb in real life with an 11-23 and even a compact 50/34 would be a having to stand and crank it out, just to keep going. Because it feels only half as steep, you expect to be able to lay down a moderate amount of more power and see your speed really go up, but that just doesn’t happen. I think this is one instance where the default difficulty sort of makes it less realistic.
I was thinking I’d put an 11-23 on whichever one I get so I can control my cadence better, and figured I’d adjust the difficulty such that I can still get a good workout in. The speed itself doesn’t matter, but if I’m trying to do 20 minutes at threshold, I’d like to at least be able to maintain 90 rpm. I’m lucky that I have a hill right by my house that lets me do that (though I had to bump up to an 11-28 so I can maintain 90rpm when doing FTP tests there.)
Anyway, I think the difficulty lets you adjust it so you can make the workout most effective for your needs, because that’s what’s really important after all.
In Zwift when pairing the devices, I paired the ‘Power Source’ (which was the trainer), ‘Heart Rate’, ‘Cadence’, but I didn’t pair the ‘Controllable Trainer’ as I thought that it had already been selected as the ‘Power Source’ and used the same ‘trainer’ icon.
I should have realised this when I saw there were only 3 of the 4 ‘Device Status’ icons highlighted when selecting my ride. So, the Drivo wasn’t being ‘controlled’ by the gradients either up or down. These WERE all highlighted when I rode the ‘Mountain 8’ with the Flux, so that was being ‘controlled’, although it didn’t feel like it. I might have to dig the Flux out of the box and try it again.
I was going to give my legs a rest today but will try the ‘Mountain 8’ again later.
Hello,
What do you guys think about the speed values recorded?
I’ve just used the drivo once (ANT+ FE-C with Golden Cheetah and paired only via ANT+ with a Garmin 510), as per the Elite manual I had to set the wheel circumference at 605mm (=2095/3.46) … but imho the speed seems to be underestimated.
I know that in .erg mode the speed is relatively useless but i’d like to have realistic values.
Do you think the scaling factor 1/3.46 is ok?
Hi, thank you for running this amazing resource. Really is the bible.
How does the release of the Flux impact the position of the Drivo, do you think? I can get the drivo for ¬£865 or the Flux for £665 so it’s a £200 difference for… what exactly? Slightly easier to move the Drivo (it has a handle and folds slightly – good for me as I need to move it out of the way regularly), it’s slightly quieter, it’s slightly more accurate – for £200 more. I would be interested if there is any X-Factor which just makes the Drivo more enjoyable to ride (if you were doing a blind test, which would you prefer?). I saw GPLama’s bad experience with the Flux but am prepared to say that’s unusual. Would appreciate any thoughts on this – i see at least one user has ridden both.
Not sure if it matters as much to you, but a differentiating factor for me between the Flux and all of the trainers above it in price, was that the flux just estimates power, whereas the others use a power meter. I’m currently using a Powertap wheel on a Cycleops Fluid2 for Zwift, and I didn’t want to downgrade my power accuracy for the noise and tire wear benefits of a direct drive trainer, so I’ve ruled out the Flux. I also plan to do a lot of intervals in Workout mode, and the Flux really seemed to lag the others in it’s power readings for intervals. This was noticed by Lama, DC, and some other youtubers.
Hi,
Was wondering if anyone had this issue. I bought two Drivos, first one works perfectly with Zwift. Second one, resistances don’t seem to follow the slope simulation in Zwift. A 7% feels like a 12% at times, and 2% felt way too hard. Currently set at 50% trainer difficulty. Tried to set power at 100 last night via the elite app and resistance went crazy hard. Tried elite app this morning and it seemed to work for the first 5 minutes that I tested. Resistance with Zwift however seems all over the place. Sometimes it works okay, sometimes it doesn’t. Anyone having similar issues? I’m suspicious it could be Zwift but my other drivo works flawlessly. Using same software, connectors, settings, etc. For both.
If you’re using an ANT+ sensor connected to your laptop, I’d strongly suggest you buy a 15ft usb repeater cable with the ANT+ connector sitting on the trainer with some velcro.
I noticed a big improvement with the repeater cable, no more power drop outs and the hill simulations are smooth as butter at 50%
Thank you for the response, already doing that, have an extension cable right next to the trainer. One works perfectly, the other one does not, literally same parameters.
I had a similar problem with my Bkool Pro tonight on Zwift. But the gradients were out of sync by 10 seconds some times and some steep climbs didn’t kick in until I was near the top :-)
I was cursing Zwift but I it might be that I was using another Ant+ USB dongle rather than the Bkool Ant+ dongle it came with. It had been working OK with the Bkool dongle yesterday. I will try it again ASAP and if it does the same, I will swap mid ride to check .
Thanks, been using the same ant+ dongle for over a year, it’s worked fine. It’s odd because it only happens in the simulation mode, workout mode works fine
I’ve seen a few people ask how you update the firmware for the Drivo, but no answers. I’m wondering the same thing. It says I have version 3.2.2 in the myetraining app, but no options to update or search for an update.
I really like my Drivo but am having some of the ERG mode issues others are having. In Zwift workout mode, when changing from a lower to higher wattage, it occasionally starts increasing resistance as normal, but doesn’t stop and goes all the way to full resistance. Leaving me either to barely turn my smallest gear over out of the saddle, or stop pedalling all together. It then sorts itself out after 30 seconds or so. Strange because it is fine 9/10 times.
Am hoping there is a firmware update to sort it, as it seems from earlier posts in this thread that Elite were on to it.
Hey guys, does anybody have some updates regarding the fw update? I’ve already logged about 1000k on my new Drivo, pretty pleased with the Zwift experience, but doing workouts is a pain :-)…
Cheers,
Tudor
Good luck! I’ve done about the same mileage and I am enjoying the drivo. However despite asking Elite on 3 occasions I have still to receive answers to when the firmware update mentioned earlier in this thread will arrive and when it does,how you actually install it. Like you I would love to know.
here’s an update: I just received an answer from Elite Helpdesk saying to use Power Smoothing from their app. And there was an earlier post here by Elite stating:
“In any case, in order to improve the Drivo (and considering your claims), we’ve decided to make a modification and let the user decides the level of smooth of the power measurement. The user will be able to set the quantity of smoothness from the app as he prefers. In this way, our users will the power data as they prefer. Actual or more smoothed.”
So this option is in the android app (a new version for android has been released a few days ago) -and one can set values ranging from 1-> n? :-) – there’s no documentation on this (or I haven’t found it) – but I’ve set it to 3 and will try it out tomorrow. Did anybody before tried this setting before? I also suspect this is a persistant setting on the trainer (sort like a fw update)…
with all the respect …. for christ sake , who is talking about “smoothing the power measurements ” ?!! Most of the people here have the same problem which is simply putting :
going from 200W to 400W in ERG MODE (doing constant 80rpm) will simply kill you because it will kick you with 500W and more …. and you can still ride that 80rpm and it won’t let go. U will be simply doing that sick wattage untill u resign.
Is there a solution for this overkicking servo ?
I’d argue that if you’re seeing power consistency issues…it might actually be the app.
After all, as you can see in the review, TrainerRoad has zero issues holding stunning curves without any spikes in ERG mode (at almost identical wattages to what you just noted).
Many apps handle ERG mode differently, and some kinda screw it up. Just something to keep in mind.
Hi,
So we bought an Elite Drivo for X-mas and it works via blue tooth on my phone. It does not work on Zwift via Ant+. It seems to find the device and pair but the rider does not move. I’ve contacted Zwift and there suggestion was the USB extension, which I got. Still no luck. I’ve sent email to Elite with no response and contacted Clever Training which, though very nice, could not help. Any suggestions?
Regards, Eric
In Zwift, are you ensuring that you’re pairing it as a ‘Controllable Trainer’, and that it should say FE-C next to it? Versus pairing to just the power meter side?
Also – try unplugging the Drivo, and then plugging back in, and for fun – turn off Bluetooth on your phone/iPad/etc, just to make sure it’s not holding an active connection to it and causing some sort of issue.
Thanks for the response. Tried all of the above, we have been pairing as a controllable trainer. Still no luck. :( If it was a bad dongle, I can’t understand why it finds the device and pairs with it? We don’t have any electrical interference going no fans etc. I tried the Bluetooth off on my phone as well.
A bad dongle seems pretty unlikely if you ask me. I could see an extension issue. Have you by chance pulled the desktop right next to it (or put the laptop right next to it), for pairing?
You could also download the ANT+ testing software – Simulant – to see if it’s broadcasting an FE-C signal or not. Alternatively, perhaps try and see if PerfPro will see it (you can download their 30-day trial), or GoldenCheetah. Both would easily pickup ANT+ FE-C trainers.
Hi DC. We did get a USB extension and still no luck. The dongle is a foot away from the unit. It also does not work on the computer via Elite’s simulation software. I’ll try the Ant+ testing software. :(
This sounds like a device driver problem. I would look at Device Manager on both machines and compare driver versions or whether it even shows in the list.
I see all of the readings (power, rpm, heart rate, speed) but the resistance doesn’t change. The Zwift website had this known issue back in October:
We’re currently investigating an issue that’s preventing some trainers from pairing as both Power and Controllable Trainer under BLE. Devices we’re currently aware of that are affected by this issue include:
•Tacx Vortex
•Elite trainers that use the Misuro B+
Do I have a Zwift issue rather than a Drivo issue and would I have better results with TrainerRoad?
Can you help with the Elite software since their forum and instructions are useless. I wish to ride using “Real video” The video is installed but it seems I need to add / enable a competitor. Any idea how to do this? Thanks.
Just installed it myself (Win10/Ant+)and added the free Alp D’Huez video and was able to start without any competitor.
So tracking back steps, are you clicking on the realvideo icon in the Elite software, which brings up the available video’s ? You should just have an option to select “ride” and definitly don’t need another racer?
I sorted this out though not sure what I did. The issue I have now is that the slopes even the slightest up slope are absurdly hard. Almost come to a halt at 2 or 3%. Completely unrealistic. Much better on Zwift. Any ideas what may need adjusting?
There is a bug/feature with the RealVideo app where it interprets your profile body weight as kilos, which causes tension/resistance changes to be about 10X higher than they should be. Changing your profile units and body weight to “Metrical System” or converting your “Anglosaxon system” profile weight to kilos solves the problem. So my weight is 168 LBs and if I change my profile weight 76 (what it is in Kilos) the Alpe d’Huez video resistance works like you would expect it to. Once done with the training video you have to remember to convert your “Anglosaxon system” profile weight back to pounds (168 in my case).
I am running the app on my Windows 10 laptop, don’t know if the same issues exists with the IOS based app.
Hi All
Been hanging around here for some time and finally took the plunge. Thanks everyone for the various postings as they have definitely helped in narrowing the field down.Only had a chance to play with it for 30 mins so far but noticed a weirdness with the LED’s
Mine is only showing the red power light and darkness where the green and blue LED are supposed to be. I can connect both in BT and ANT+ ( note I wasn’t able to control the drivo in BT, but it was definitely paired).
Waiting to hear back from Elite on the missing LED – anyone had these gone awol from new machines ? May open it up to see if they are even missing like someone posted earlier.
Separate question – just for my education: given I connect with ANT+ (Win10 machine), i assume there is no need to do any BLE pairing with other devices ? Or am i missing something here?
I have the same problem with one LED light being out. Mine is the blue one that tells you that you are paired with Bluetooth. However, I was able to pair with Bluetooth no problems and the trainer does respond accordingly. Contacted Elite and they said it’s likely a burnt or defective light. They suggested to potentially have it exchanged but don’t care to do that if everything else works. It’s a bid odd though that in your case it seems to pair but doesn’t appear to respond. I would just make sure it’s paired to controllable trainer.
Hi HurdyGurdy,
Same issue happened to me!!
I’d suggest you to wait for Elite feedback. They should ask you to open the panel and inspect the board + taking pictures.
In my case the root cause was pretty clear: only the red/power LED was physically there. Blue/BLE and green/ANT+ LEDs were not there.
And of course it was not a damage due to the shipment because the package and the plastic case are totally fine.
I have just shipped it back today, waiting for a replacement now…
I’m just wandering how a device with 2 out 3 leds not blinking can pass a basic quality check…
Thanks – Still waiting to hear back from Elite. Interesting problem, if they indeed forgot to check that, makes you wonder what else got forgotten as part of the QC process.
Loath to send it back just for that though if everything else ends up working.
New problem i have now is that my phone does not want to pair over BT with it. I keep getting message that connection is refused by the DRIVO when pairing?
Ok – seems I definitely ended up with a lemon so it’s going back. Great trainer but does Elite need to work on their QC. Guess I am giving them one more chance to exchange or have to go NEO.
First real ride and felt a bit unstable so checking the unit realised there is like .5cm gap between floor and right rear support, same as poster earlier on this thread.
Coupled that with a bug gap in the shell itself, looks like this is definitely a Monday morning unit. I guess i could always put it on something to level but frankly should not be happening in a £1K device.
BTW two days in and still waiting for a response from elite support on the ticket I raised!
I agree that there are quality control issues with the Drivo, I’m now on my 3rd unit in 10 days, the first one had only the ANT+ LED working, on further inspection the other 2 LEDs had been put on the circuit board on an angle so were off their pads so not getting a connection and subsequently this was never going to work! The second one seemed OK until I rode it, and rather than being smooth like the first one I could feel vibration through the frame, coupled with a groaning noise as the the flywheel came to a stop I decided this was not good enough so am sending that one back too. Fingers crossed that the third one will be OK, it seems it so far except for the slight annoyance that I have had with all 3 units that the stickers have been slapped on, on an angle and and some have air bubbles in them too. It’s not really what I expected on a trainer that costs this much!
Well good luck with this 3rd one!
Honestly I’m now waiting for the 2nd one but if it comes with issues, that would be enough for me and probably I will not give them a 3rd chance.
Also because being with no trainer while waiting for the replacement one during these winter days, while originally I bought it on purpose to be used in this period, it’s kind of bothering me…I can afford it once but not twice for sure :)
Hi Laura – Did you purchase and exchange this in the UK as I am still waiting for my retailer to get approval from Madison to exchange. Given you were able to get three trainers in 10 days, interested to see where this was.
Well this has made my Drivo vs Hammer dilemna easier to navigate. I did already like that the Hammer allowed for a fine adjustment to leveling in case your floor isn’t totally level, whereas the Drivo just has the three course adjustments of rotating the legs on the front bar, which looks like pretty big differences between each setting. Since I’m in the US, it makes it a bit easier since Cycleops is too, and I already know their customer service is excellent and very responsive from currently owning a Powertap wheelset (now 10 years old, but they upgraded it to the G3 ANT+ version for what I thought was a very reasonable fee)
Thanks for sharing your issues. You only have so many days to train, and I don’t want to be missing any due to QC issues that shouldn’t be there in the first place on a device this expensive.
I kind of am happy now i had to return the unit as rather than exchange I am doing a repurchase and refund so there is no gap in training ( well apart from work getting in the way). It dropped another 5% in price last few days so gap between drivo and neo is £150+ now.
Yes I am in the UK and bought mine from Wiggle. Rather than send it back for a replacement I just ordered another and then sent the broken one back for a refund otherwise I’d have been without a trainer for too long and it seemed like a lot less hassle to do it this way as long as your credit card can stand it lol. It’s interesting to hear that you have to wait for Madison approval, that sounds like the retailer offloading responsibility to me :-) Where did you get yours from?
Did the same in the end. Actually seems that the Madison conversation was more to check if there are wider issues which could mean that just sending me another one was not going to be really solving things. But I am sure there must be enough happy owners out there in the end agreed the same route as you did and switcheroo is in progress.
Purchased from Sigma ( kind of like good old fashioned LBS for these big outlays) and they were superb to deal with imho. They also have a really good price on at the moment !
I’ve had quite a lot of dealings with Sigma in the past and in fairness they have always been great. I hope your new one doesn’t have any issues! I really do like the Drivo but there does seem to be a lot of random quality issues around which is a real shame as when you get a properly working one it is superb.
New one seems to be in far better shape – all led’s working and support feet are level. Comparing them side to side it was obvious something had gone wrong with the assembly of the previous one as the gap that runs along the middle was not even along the length of the trainer. Strangely, the S/N of new one is only 5 nrs up from first one so definitely same batch.
This is the beauty of working with an LBS- asked if they could unpack and QC before sending one out again. Given they would incur the shopping costs if proven to be broken again, win win for all parties!
I read your post above. If you’re looking for good quality control don’t go Neo. Definitely a crap shoot whether yours will be okay or not. The Neo has been out now for quite a while and they have not corrected its problems. Tacx does not want to or know now to solve the Neo issues and their solution is to give you a new one after you wait out that swap. Good luck.
I’m having the same issue with a S/N 44000 (and something). Got to Elite support and received a mail that it (could) be an assembly issue, and they’ll send me a new leg & a bumpon with a picture of where I have to put it.
Transcript:
It could be possible that there was a mistake on the assembling
I propose you the following:
I will send you a new leg and the missing part (a bumbon) to replace your
Ive done 500km on Zwift (mostly in workout mode) with my Drivo now and definitely think I made the right choice. It is a great trainer. I’m just desperate for this firmware update to sort the sporadic issues in ERG mode. Every now and then when starting an interval, the trainer just applies resistance and doesn’t stop until it is fully locked (even though the power figure goes way above what is required and Zwift is visibly saying ‘reduce power’). The only way to sort it is to completely stop and wait for it to sort itself out, which ruins the workout.
I find it happens more when I have an interval that requires really high power, as I obviously have to hammer the pedals which spikes the power to above the target, which makes the trainer increase resistance quickly. However it is very difficult to apply 400+ watts slowly and smoothly trying to feather the pedals and avoid spiking the power!
I have also had a couple of intervals where it has done the opposite I.e. Cut all resistance even though Zwift is demanding more.
It really puts me off taking on a micro interval workout, would be a nightmare!
For info, I’m connected via Bluetooth and have experienced no discernible dropouts.
Unfortunately I’ve connected to the Drivo using bluetoooth from android. But I guess on IOS it should work in the same way: just scan the barcode, connect, start pedalling and update the value. I’ve used 7 and now I’m on 10, It appears to be a better option…
my dad just bought the Elite Drivo and he got some problems with the bluetooh connection to his iPhone 7 and his iPad Air 2…both devices don’t connect with the Elite Drivo.
Then he tried it with a Samsung phone and it connected right away.
A friend of mine who has the Elite Drivo as well does get connection to his iPad and can use the app and do all the programmes.
We already talked to the guys from Elite but they couldn’t really understand either why it is not working as it actually is supossed to.
Do you have any idea what might be the problem?
Do all there lights come on when you turn it on? If the blue one does not, it might be a Bluetooth issue. The Samsung might be connecting via ANT+. If that’s the case, the ANT+ light should stay on and the blue one should turn off (assuming they all work). I would try another Bluetooth device to see if it works but if the Bluetooth light never turns on, it might be a Bluetooth defect.
thanks for your reply.
Yes, all the lights come on when he turns it on and it is definetly not a bluetooth issue.
My suspicion is that Elite has issues with iOS. Well, he uses his old Samsung mobile but actually this is not the wanted solution, especially for this price.
I’m using IOS on an iPhone 6 and my Drivo connects fine. One thing I have noticed with the Drivo is that you appear to be able to connect to only one device at a time, and it needs powering off and back on between connection attempts to a different device. The non-connection issues I’ve had have been that the Drivo connected to Bluetooth on my laptop without me realising and it then wouldn’t connect to ANT+, similarly after I’d been using it on ANT+ it would not connect to my iPhone until after I’d powered the Drivo off and back on again. It then connected fine, so it may be worth checking if there are any other Bluetooth/ANT+ devices around that are interfering?
Has anybody tried the supplied cadence sensor? I have plugged mine in and whilst it appears to work the locating hole is bigger than the plug and it is very loose as though it’s just hanging in…..it has no discernible plugging in feeling almost like the connection behind the socket has fallen away and it not connected to anything.
Anyone else found this?
I’ve tried the Cadence sensor on two Drivos and they each push in with a discernible click at the end. My question to you is, how do you know that it is working? The Drivo transmits cadence without it anyway and other than buying the Elite Pedal Analysis software I don’t see on mine any way to tell if it works or not as it doesn’t appear to have any lights or other means of showing that it is actually a functioning sensor. Unless I am missing something? I decided to try the sensor because when using BKOOL I would get sporadic cadence readings jumping up to 200rpm+ for no reason. It seems to have been better after plugging the sensor in but this may just be a coincidence!
I’ve investigated further and it looks like the spring clip inside the connection is either broken or not there.
A bodge with blu tac is stopping it falling out and at the moment it’s working with the pedalling analysis Elite app.
Not ideal, will have to get on to the supplier for a solution.
Similar to you I started trying it and the way I noticed it was working, was that in sufferfest I had far less variation in the RPM number. Before using it, was just always over then undershooting whilst I was pretty sure I wasn’t changing cadence.
I bought a Drivo to use with trainerroad. I used the TR android app which paired over bluetooth no problems. I never saw the blue LED like others have mentioned. It worked OK but not great and seemed to overcompensate up and down. TR said it had not yet been optimised, they are working on it but no ETA. Elite say a firmware update is due before end Jan but not clear what this is for. The last straw for me was failing to complete a high power workout when it was overshooing/undershooting by upto 100 watts. I also tried with the TR PC app and ANT+ but it was the same. I sent it back and bought a Wahoo Kickr. Riding this is like night and day the Kickr responds super fast and the power control is super smooth. The Drivo was certainly quieter and I think the issues are software related but with no ETA I couldn’t wait.
regarding the firmware – is it just rumors or did somebody from Elite confirmed this? Basically I’m in the same situation here – overall happy but FE-C is not quite what I was expecting…
Also curious about the firmware update. I just received my unit today and I am quite unhappy with it. I’m having the same issues other people are with the resistance overshooting and undershooting, making interval workouts just about impossible. If Elite isn’t updating this in the next few days, back it goes. It seems pretty clear that this unit was rushed to release before it was really ready. Not so excited to be a beta tester at this price point.
Below is what elite told me. I have no idea what effect the latest firmware will have. Good luck with it.
“at the moment there is no official tool to upgrade to the lastest fw.
Within the end of January (likely even before), it will be released a tool to upgrade the fw of Drivo.”
Hi Paul, I found that setting the ‘Power Smoothing’ parameter in the My-E-Training IOS app helped with issue you describe. It seems like the maximum value you can enter is ’10’ and that is what I have it at and it’s much better than with the default value, which I think was ‘2’.
However, I’m still seeing an issue that others have described where the resistance will continue to increase indefinitely during an ERG workout when the required resistance increases by a large amount – e.g. ~100w – unless you anticipate the increase and give it some gas before the resistance change.
with a smoothing factor = 10, i’m pretty pleased with the responsiveness of the trainer; what do you guys think about the power graph? target wattage was set in zwift at 160 and there were no major hickups…
are the neo / kickr better? the vortex has definitely a more smoother curve, but then again, it’s lacking elite’s accuracy…
This TR graph show some of the under/over shooting issues I was seeing. Same on android/ble and pc/ant+. Checkout the differences between target and actual power.
I connected the Drivo to a 735XT, but have some issues with the recorded speed on my 735XT. The speed is way too high. According to the Garmin I’m riding at 35km/h even at lowest efforts. E.g. it recorded an average speed of 69km/h in my last workout.
I connected Drivo’s “Spd/Cad” and “Power” sensors to the 735XT. Also I tried different settings in the Wheel Size Option (i.e Manual and Auto), but unfortunately without success.
Did anyone experience similar issues and knows how to adjust this?
Thanks a lot!
Hi Michael,
Somewhere in the manual they state you have to divide wheel circumference by 3.46 when not using Elite app/software (and this is the case for your 735xt).
Please have a look at my previous post #259
Like some others, I noticed that the Blue and Green LEDs are not lighting up.
They were when I first purchased the Drivo about 5 months ago.
Since then I have been using in ANT+ FE-C mode with the Garmin 820, and it’s been fine.
I went to try to update the power smoothing today using the my-Etraining app, but it wouldn’t connect.
I noticed then that the LEDs aren’t lighting up anymore, even though it is connecting to the Garmin.
I opened the panel, and found that the blue LED had dropped off completely, and the green one was half hanging off.
I suspect this is a bad design – the plastic casing is quite flexible, so any flex is pressing the housing against the LEDs and must be breaking them off.
So I expect I will return my unit for replacement under warranty, but worried about how carefully I will need to treat the replacement. I will also see what Elite support say.
Apart from this I’ve been very happy with the trainer, but as others have said, for this amount of money I would not expect such a basic design problem.
I’ve had my Drivo for about a month and have put 400+ miles on it.
This morning I started seeing crazy power readings, it got up to about 1500 watts while I was at an easy approx 75 rpm. Initially I thought it might be Zwift, shut Zwift down and started up TrainerRoad (after also rebooting the Drivo a few times). I got the same power readouts on TR as I was with Zwift.
I did send an email to Elite but it’s to soon to expect a response.
I have a giant OCR1. I can’t seem to get the drivo axle perpendicular to my bike frame. Attempts to adjust axle position in the dropouts leaves the bike at an angle. Any suggestions? thx
It looks like it is sat correctly to me, the top of the Drivo is always over to the non drive side seatstay. In my case as I have shaped stays there is about 1mm of clearance between the top of the Drivo casing and the frame. I’ve put a piece of bar tape in there to stop it rubbing under hard efforts. One thing I have noticed from your picture is that you appear to have the non driveside spacer on the wrong side of the bike frame. For standard road bikes that spacer goes on the OUTSIDE of the frame. Only if it has 135mm axle spacing (usually for road bikes with disk brakes and MTBs) does it go inside the frame. If you try and ride it with the spacer on the wrong side the quick realease will not tighten up enough and your bike will not be held tight. I’ve attached a pic to show this and the frame clearance.
Hi Lauren, Yes, I understand that the unit will sit on the left side, but it is also angled slightly to the left rather than pointing straight ahead so the axle is not perpendicular to the bike and I am concerned about excessive chain/gear wear. Is yours doing that too?
Keen eyes on the spacer. I had originally tried it on the outside but i had trouble getting the dropouts to sit.
Thanks so much for the reply.
This was pretty similar to my issue which in the end was caused by the whole unit to be warped. If you put the unit on flat surface, do both rear support legs touch the floor ? I realised that in my case, the whole thing was built at an angle and as result the bike was not very stable. Used a spirit level on the bike once mounted and it was clear it was heavily tilting to the left, exactly the space where the rear supports were wrongly assembled.
New one is way more level, though gotta say it doesn’t feel as “rock” solid as i was expecting. Fair amount of flex in the unit but.
Yes, all feet are touching and appear flat, though I a going to rig something to measure the axle level. .. I agree that the unit is not very stable (when climbing), but that is actually a good thing because it is less stress on the (in my case) carbon frame for side to side motion.
Thanks for responding, HurdyGurdy.
Just received mine yesterday and not absolutely convinced it is brand new as the box was a bit dog eared and the internal packing cardboard was ripped in several places; is there some internal counters to access that might give me some usage info?
Also on my PC it takes 5-15 seconds to ramp up the speed, cadence and power if I suddenly increase my output but it seems OK if I use the iPad add with bluetooth.
I bought an Elite Kura mainly to have a accurate direct drive trainer with power read out. Tried in the region of 6 crank based power meters to compare the wattage reading and the Kura reads low vs all of them, about 25-30 watts at 300 watts.
Spoke to elite and they told me to calibrate it, which we know you cannot do.
Yet again elite produces on paper a great product but fails to live up to expectations and their customer service is diabolical.
If a direct drive trainer is accurate, then it should read low compared to a crank based power meter. A crank or pedal based power meter should give the highest readings. A hub based, or direct drive trainer power meter will read lower because of drivetrain losses. The best you can hope for is to have the power be accurate at whichever place it’s being read. If they just jacked up the calibration values by 8-10% to match the crank-based power meter, it would no longer be accurate, or it might only be accurate when it’s in the same gear, and the drivetrain is in the same state of cleanliness. Better to have it accurate and consistent. Just do an FTP test on your trainer and base your training values off of that, rather than using your outdoor FTP. What matters is that you get effective training, not the number itself.
Well that was my first suspicion too however I’ll refer you to this exact review where a crank based power meter is compared in terms of readout and they are almost the same. why is mine not??
I’d agree that unless your drive-train is exceptionally dirty, that it shouldn’t be 10% low. 2-3% is the more common number.
As for determining which unit (crank based power meter or the trainer) is inaccurate, you’d have to either find a 3rd method of measuring power, or more than one crank based power meter. It sounds like you’ve tried 6 bikes? If so – and all of them agree (and all of them have had zero offsets done while inside), then I’d go back to Elite again and ask them if your unit is defective.
Actually, you can (and should according to Elite) calibrate the PM in the Drivo & Kuro. It’s through the app, I only have the iOS version so can’t comment on the windows app.
It gives you a number that’s stored inside the Drivo and Elite says to do it once a month.
It’s actually in the manual too.
I’m having the same issue as you concerning higher power readings from my stages vs the drivo. Both are calibrated, my FTP session over 20 min is showing 9W different (288W vs 279W). It varies from interval to interval it seems.5 min interval is 11W difference.
I’ll go test my bike on a Tacx Neo tomorrow evening, and another guy with a power2max will test my drivo and we’ll know more after that.
I know about the difference concerning place of power measurement, so as long as it’s about 3-4% i’m ok with it, as long as I know both are reasonably accurate but produce consistent wattages.
By the way, even ANT+ vs Bluetooth has differences when coming from the same PM (Stages). Sometimes 2W’s difference too, probably due to different sampling? So that’s another thing that should be in the mix..
On the home screen, click on parameters. You’ll might need to select your trainer, go through the steps and then you see the normal settings like circumference etc. Down below, there’s a (small) link advanced configuration. When you access that, you’ll get the option to calibrate the sensor too.
Thanks for the quick reply.
I do not have that option, I don’t know why… Seems we have the same version of the app 3.3.3 (171)… Are you on “premium” membership on myETraining?
Well, this is a bit disconcerting. I thought the Drivo was accurate “out of the box” with no need whatsoever to do a calibration or a spindown. This was probably the top reason I’m considering this trainer. It seems a major marketing point for this trainer. Is what we’ve been led to believe not true?
I’d really not try and re-calibrate the Kura/Drivo – if you can prove that you’re seeing issues with accuracy on either one, I’d go back to them and have them address it for your specific unit (likely something wrong with it, a pretty big rarity).
Many folks (including myself) have shown that these two units are really solid when it comes to accuracy. So if you’ve got a lemon, I’d treat it as such and try and get Elite to service it.
I owned an Ergomo crankset and the manual recommended that you calibrate before most rides. The Drivo power meter is based on the Ergomo unit then it should be calibrated at least once a month as per Elite recommendation. Maybe Gamin and other head units cannot perform a calibration due to lack of the Elite calibration algorithm. The Drivo calibration is based on a spin down just as the Ergomo. DCrainamker, maybe Elite can provide more information on calibration process.
For what it’s worth, every ride I do with the Elite Drivo almost matches the power from my Power2Max exactly. Every single ride the average power is within 1-2 watts of my Power2Max. I’m VERY happy with the accuracy/precision of the Drivo.
Hi Ray, as always thanks for your reviews and continual feedback in the comments.
I have been “enjoying” my Drivo having had one of the early units in September, great customer support when my unit broke and no serious issue with its replacement (which got they to me within the week).
I am one of the many who fairly often experience an “overshoot” in ergo mode at the beginning of intervals, especially those with a large jump. Having seen a tip for the Neo that suggested using an independent cadence sensor (rather than trainer estimated) i have been doing this and it seems to have some effect – does this make sense to you? Would the Drivo ergo computation change the resistance based on the external cadence sensor? perhaps it is my imagination that the change made a difference.
On the same topic my understanding is Ant+ (that i am using) sends messages once per second, does BTLE send messages more often? Could using BTLE improve “overshoot”? Not sure if Zwift have implemented Elite’s BT Smart Control yet, but i have a cheap-o direct from China BTLE dongle on the way to try.
It is difficult the work out the cause of “overshoot”, sometimes it might just be 10% for a second or two (which is fine), but sometimes it can be as much as 50% over that holds for ~10 seconds. Changes in my cadence seem to make a difference, but i don’t know how. I actually think i might be holding off and waiting for resistance to kick in rather than pushing more power into the pedals.
It’s not a big deal, but a little annoying.
I recall mention of a firmware update “fix” for the overshoot mentioned in the comments here a while ago, has there been any progress?
So trying out variety of different programs and so far ZWIFT, veloreality and Sufferfest all work fine.
However trying the BKOOL app with the DRIVO, gives me awesome power and speeds, in the range of +1500watt and 75MPH. Obviously this must mean I am ready for a new career in pro cycling…. or the drivo and BKOOL not playing nice with each other.
Has anyone else experienced that? trying to find in BKOOL app if there is a way to set wheel circle but nothing so far.
hey, i’ve considered it’s not worth the extra money. for what they’ve charged for the drivo, the whole package should come free, my oppinion :-). as a side note – for us amateurs there’s not so much left to improve (besides ftp, ofc) :-D, so i’d rather spend that money elsewhere…
how’s your drivo, after 1-2 months? happy with it? any news regarding the firmware?
Drivo nr2 is ok – unfortunately work is interfering with my training plans so not as much time using it as I envisaged.
There is definitely a learning curve in moving to a fixed trainer, but getting used to it. Software wise I tried pretty much all that is out there and have settled for Sufferfest and VeloReality and both work fantastic with my setup. Never got the hang of Zwift, nothing wrong with it but just not my cup of tea.
Only tried the Ant+ connectivity as never got any bluetooth connection to work to my phone(MOTOG3) and haven’t had time to debug the issue. Love the smooth power transitions but noticed there is a but of resistance slippage when doing high watts and low revs. Like everyone else, mine suffers from ridiculous watt levels in ERG mode if your cadence drops low or if you stop pedaling for any reason.
No info on firmware – DCR is my go to place for info so ifnews is not on here, it doesn’t exist !
The pedaling analysis software is 8.99 US on the Apple App Store. At this time there isn’t a user’s manual available, waiting to hear from Elite when/If. At first I was only seeing one pedal and it took me a while to divine that you have to add another pedal and assign it a color via the pedal color option then save the configuration. Once that is done it seems to work. I haven’t had enough time to analyze the data to see how my pedaling strokes match up across a variety of cadence ranges and power outputs.
I got a messages from Elite support in Italian that points to this website that has a higher level marketing based guide to the pedaling software. You have to click around to find it.
“piccolo problema” :-)
So far my second Drivo is doing fine. The first one arrived with case damage due to having been opened and repacked improperly at some point before I got it. Riding Zwift in normal mode is really smooth/nice and the trainer seems to respond to changes in slope very quick and smoothly. I am going try ERG mode tomorrow.
Sorry the support messages were in Italian and I got them mixed up. Here is the link to the pedaling software pdf. The drivo comes with a lifetime subscription to the My Training software and the $9 for the pedaling software license/use isn’t limited.
Down loaded the pedaling analysis for Android and tried playing with it this morning, seemed to work great except I need to get the diagram to rotate in the correct position and don’t know how to figure out the angle to put into the app for the cadence sensor location relative to the crank to get the rotation correct, can’t find any directions on that – Does anyone have any links or directions for this? Right now my lobes are oriented almost completely vertical.
There is no user guide for the pedaling software. You might try the new elite forum or open a ticket with elite support with questions.
Here is something I got from a support ticket.
“The narrowing of the figure is the dead point of your pedal. The wider the narrowing, the better (more efficient) the pedal.”
Pic above is before I started working on building more strength in my left leg and focusing on my form. I broke my left hip in a crash 14 months ago and my recovery continues. Here is a sample from today. Still seeing right leg is averaging 10-20 watts more than left but my form appears to be getting better.
Took me a while to get in there. Finally figured out your log in is not your user name from the My E training instead its your Email address then same password.
Here’s a screenshot from me playing with the app yesterday, I have the same issue as you with left leg weaker but not due to injury, just a bias. Its interesting how the trainer can develop these graphs without have a true left / right strain gauge. How does it know what power is coming from which leg?
The Road.cc review is out too (very late comparing to yours ;-)), interesting thing they note is that the unit doesn’t seem to transmit bluetooth & ant+ concurrently. That seems a bit odd?
I’m hoping it does though, since I use BT to connect to my iPad & use my garmin as an extra recording device of the stream.
Can you shed some light on this Ray? Planning on purchasing a Drivo in the next few days.
I’m not Ray, but I used to use dual BT/ANT+ streams on my Kickr, but since upgrading to the Drivo this is no longer an option. It is indeed one or the other but not both at once in my experience. I think the review is correct unfortunately.
I just got a reply from Elite too, confirming the review. They say it’s a Standard from Bluetooth that doesn’t allow simultaneous transmitting of that signal.
Odd though, since I have multiple devices doing just that. Powermeter, cadence sensor etc. They all send both signals.
Since Bluetooth can only be picked up by 1 signal, only ANT+ is the only 1 that can be used if you want a backup data recording.
Ray great review, In there you said “And finally, here’s a session on Zwift, which is all about having variability within the ride file”
In the trainer road ERG there seems to be very little variance of the wattage. But in the zwift workout there’s huge variance +/- 50W at least.
Did you mean zwift lets you have that variability in ERG mode where trainer road doesn’t as much?
ERG mode works practically the same in Trainerroad and Zwift. So there is no much variance. Mentioning Zwift ride and variability Ray meant just riding around virtual roads, not workout mode with ERG.
Have you done any testing of the elite rampa on Zwift over Bluetooth? In freeride mode on the flats I can easily spin out my highest gear (50×11). There seems to be some problems with the bluetooth aspect of it. Have you noticed anything like that?
but have not been able to login with my originally requested password, nor with my replacement password (for “forgotten” passwords). Has anyone had any success here? So far, I’ve only seen posts by “Admin”.
BTW, I got my Drivo in February (Clever Training) and have enjoyed a few Zwift sessions on it (e.g., Watopia Figure 8, London 8) via my IOS iPad connected to the TV, but have not tried an Zwift ERG workout yet. I have tested it with my-eTraining in ERG mode and have experienced the same “steep ramp-up” when upping the power (e.g., going from 150w to 200w) off the bike (the iPad is not within reach of the trainer), only to return to a 400-500w start up from 0 rpm. I suppose I might be able to avoid this by having the iPad in reach of the bike, but that will be a future modification. So, yes, I, too, am eagerly awaiting the FW update that will address this properly (the version on the download site is 7.2.0.77, dated 10/1/2017, of course!). I have not checked if my-eTraining has the smoothing option, but that is also an option.
Finally, an additional gripe is that my wireless LED’s were DOA. The power LED works fine, but when I took off the cover to check the lights, I found the BLE LED pushed off on one end and that the ANT+ LED was entirely missing (broken off?). I know Elite acknowledges this issue with other customers, but QA doesn’t seem to priority here. I’m not shipping this thing back to CT just for indicator lights!
Despite the above, I am pleased as a newbie smart trainer user (at least for Zwift in simulation mode) and am hoping for the best with regard to future FW updates.
I was able to login and post something to the forum tonight: link to forum.elite-it.com
I think the password I ended up using was the one I created when I registered the elite training software. Before I was able re-divine my password I was seeing a message in Italian:
“In the central system of Elite there is another password for this account, enter the correct password.
Forgot Password? Click here to reset it”.
Thank you for the review. My Drivo gives my Garmin 810 unusually high speedometer readings. It will say I’m doing 100mph at some points. It’s consistently higher. Any ideas what might cause this? I can’t find anything online about the issue. Zwift gets the proper speedometer reading. It’s just my Garmin devices that read incredibly high.
Ray – quick question on the Drivo that I can’t seem to figure out. Is it possible to ride the Drivo in such a way that it mimics a fluid trainer power curve? I.e. the faster you go the harder it gets? I totally get how the Drivo works with Zwift. I also use TrainerRoad but I’m not a huge fan of ERG mode. I’d prefer to ride TrainerRoad and shift gears to react to intervals. Is that possible? Can I ride the Drivo in TrainerRoad without ERG mode?
Thanks. As long as it is normal based on the power curve, it is good. Definitely this trainer is on the high resistance side compared to others.
My next leading question is slope simulation. Using the e-training elite app, slope simulation is way off with this trainer. Has anyone tried slope training?
The slope was 6.7%. I weight 185lbs, with a 39-21 at 63 rpm, the power resistance was 286W. I might be wrong but that wattage seems high compared to riding outside.
Just received this trainer today (CleverTraining using Ray’s code) and I’m having a big problem with it. Anyone have some insight? Im having issues setting up the Elite Drivo as a smart trainer in Zwift. I can pair the Drivo with Garmin Edge 520 great. Green Ant+ light goes solid. I can pair the Drivo with TrainerRoad also. Green Ant+ light goes solid. I can also pair the Drivo with Zwift (the FE-C profile) but the Ant+ light never stops blinking. In Zwift there is no trainer difficulty slider making me think Zwift doesn’t see it as a smart trainer. Zwift gets the power numbers from the trainer though. Just no trainer control. Any ideas? I’m at a loss.
In my setup I am using Zwift with the Elite Drivo just fine. Using the FE-C profile in Zwift via Ant+ and an Ant+ HR strap. Works great.
I also want to record everything on my Garmin Edge 520. I would prefer to have the Edge 520 read my Power2Max for power/cadence. In order to get speed/distance, I had to pair the Elite Drivo to the Edge 520. I know speed/distance are arbitrary indoors, but I still like to have this metric recorded.
It all seems to be working well but I don’t really know which power source the Edge 520 is reading. Is there a way to know for sure on the Garmin which power source it is reading when it has both a power meter and a smart trainer both paired?
Nevermind. The reason I paired the Drivo to the Garmin Edge 520 is that when I paired simply the Elite Speed/Cadence profile, I got crazy high values for speed/distance. After reading through this great resource I found that you have to divide your wheel circumference by 3.46 as per the Elite documentation. So my 700x23C normal wheel size = 2096/3.46=606. I’ll remove the Drivo Trainer profile from the Garmin Edge and add back just the speed/cadence profile and I should be good to go.
I have been suffering with the same Erg mode problems others have also. It seems to swing about for no reason and be unable to stabilise – you can see in the pic it goes from 279W to 356W when I am riding at a constant cadence. I have swapped between PC and Android device, Bluetooth and Ant+ and I have a USB extender putting the dongle within inches of the Drivo. It also seems useless for anything getting close to a sprint, which for me training for track and being time limited is a problem as my Trainerroad plans all have short 15 to 30 second efforts in them. Also the resistance at the pedals is higher than what is on the screen as it ramps up, it’s as if it loads up too high, realises it then backs down and accordingly undershoots and then dumps a load more resistance on you to start the cycle again. My workouts are calling for a max of about 560W currently and as I can hit about 1400W and hit 1000W without making any real effort I know the load is WAY more than it should be when I am struggling this hard with it. I liken it to riding though treacle
Mine is going back today but I am now thinking I will get it replaced with a Neo
After a couple of weeks I have decided to return my Driveo as well. My issue is the same as others- poor erg mode performance. I see a number of things- very slow response to changes in power. Often 5-10 seconds. If I start piling on the power quickly I often see the resistance (and power) go down initially rather than up. Then I see the power come to the average value that is commanded but it oscillates up and down by more than 10% for almost the entire 45 seconds of the intervals I was doing. My cadence during that time was reported as constant +/-1rpm. So, very steady cadence but power wanders up and down. And the larger the power step the worse it gets. Doing 15s intervals from 150W to 600W generate almost random numbers. According to Elite this is all “normal” and due to me not being smooth enough. I can’t see holding cadence to better than +/-1 rpm so I don’t agree. I think that their erg algorithm needs to be retuned. But it has been almost a year since release and no progress has been made so I have no confidence that it will be fixed any time soon.
Hello,
I am not sure that can help you but if you use 53/17 development +/-1 rpm variation correspond close to +/-10W power variation (20W envelope) . Furthermore with the variation of the rpm you create a force change (high or low ) which amplify the power gap. If you ease the pedal and you restart, you create a large power gap at the power sensor. So, your pedal smoothness play a role too. I use a Tacx Vortex and I have the same issue. To analyse and compare different ht you can calculate the average deviation (or relative) which is a good indicator. For exemple, always with my Tacx vortex I obtain this figure where the power is Favero Assioma Duo results. Each interval was 3 minutes (the power Tacx Vortex order is 320W but it is not the subject). T column is “std” and V column is average deviation.
Hoping to help
Ps Sorry for my English. I am French
Please help!! I have a Elite Drivo. I have ordered a Rose Bike Xeon 3100 Disc Di2 which has 10*135MM rear thru axle. The Drivo have adapters for 12*142mm rear thru axle. Will my new bike fit? Do I need any other adapters? Or will my bike be incompatible with the Drivoe? Please help me as I will need to cancel my order if my bike won’t work with the drivo! Thank’s a lot in advance!!
Hi,
i’m going to by a drivo in the next few weeks. I usually train indoor even in summer!
What i’m still deciding is how i’ll control the trainer: at the moment i only own a forerunnner 920 but i also have a notebook and a 2 years old ASUS Tablet.
My purpose is to create custom workout (with watts or Power Zones or with Incline) with some app and ride real Ironman Courses. But i’d like to register drivo data (power and cadence) with my forerunner.
The drivo will not be placed in my home but in a garage and I’d like to avoid to bring with me a notebook for every session with the drivo. Also after 15′ minutes of indoor training i’m usually a lot wet even in winter so maybe is not a good idea to touch a notebook’s keyboard or a tablet screen with wet fingers.
Got one of these today, seems OK thus far. Quick question which is probably more of a direct drive question vs. wheel-on. Is it normal for it to feel more ‘mechanical’ through the pedals. It’s like I can feel the interactions between the chain, cassette and sprocket more than the wheel-on trainer. OR should it all be as smooth as a wheel-on variant?
Generally speaking most people find more realism in a direct drive trainer.
However, I find that ‘feel’ is pretty subjective. I can put two well respected industry folks (that really understand trainers) on two different trainers side by side, and both will end up with totally different opinions.
The backup/ support from Elite for this trainer is good in my experience. I lost the little silver road bike axle adaptor off mine, when I moved it. My own fault to be fair.
I emailed Elite on Friday, their European base is in Italy, and a new one arrived to the office today, Monday in Ireland.
So thank you Elite
I want to be sure the power numbers on the drivo match my power numbers on my quarq…where can I read more about controlling the drivo with my garmin 510 head unit (which is paired with my quarq), or am I thinking about this all wrong?
I’m not sure about how to do it with the Garmin, but you can do it easily enough in Zwift. Just choose the Drivo as the Controllable Trainer, but choose the Quarq as the Power Meter. You will see the power numbers from your Quarq, and those are what will be used to control your workouts. It will adjust resistance on the Drivo to keep the power numbers from your Quarq on target, and you will be recording the power numbers from your Quarq, so it should all match up with an outdoors effort.
I believe so from what I’ve read of other people’s postings. I haven’t used TrainerRoad myself. Should be easy enough for you to check if you have it already.
Hey Ray,
Have Elite got any firmware/hardware changes in the pipeline on the Drivo for winter 2017/18 that are being announced at Eurobike? Interested in getting one for the winter but don’t want to if they’re about to update!
Thanks!
yesterday i got my new Drivo, its my first Elite trainer so i have some problems do unterstand the settings.
What means circumference in REAL software / Bike profile? Does it means the the wheels size? If yes-why i have to do this setup-because i havent a back wheel with Drivo.
I also paired the Drive with my Garmin Edge520. If i open the sensor settings from Drivo at the Garmin Edge520 / area “Sensor Details” i also can type in the wheels size. Is it important to type in a wheels size in the Edge 520 to see accurate speed values or are this setting directly at the Edge520 unimportant?
At the Edge 520 / Sensor Details i also can type in the bike weight – its important to type in the weight from the bike or not? If important which weight i should take? Weight within back wheel or weight without back wheel?
The instructions in the manual from Elite are….hm…terrible
I’ve got a question and I feel you are the only person that could answer this honestly.
The optical power meter is indeed accurate but the Drivo uses 2x drive belts within the unit.
Will the tension of these belts affect the accuracy of the power meter? If the friction losses of the belt change during long term use surly the optical sensor will be subject to variations in transmitted power, sorry I’m an engineer and that’s the way my mind thinks ; )
Would love to here you’re’ opinions, you are definitely the most technical when it comes to trainer reviews.
Belts tension doesn’t matter at all because optical sensor measures power before all those factors have impact (it’s as close to the bike as possible, in the hub, just next to the cassette; it’s not in the resistance unit). It’s the same as your bike chain cleanliness and lubrication doesn’t affect crank based power meters readings.
“Concerning Drivo hometrainer I confirm you that the drive belt tension is essential to assure the correct movements transmission and a correct power measurement.
The tension is always 100% calibrated and checked by our CQ dept and in general it is not necessary to modify it.
For any further information you need, we are at disposal
First time commenting here. In your review (and others online) it is stated that the Drivo needs no user calibration or spindown. I just purchased a Drivo and then saw what is copied below in their forum from an Elite Admin. (before you read I’ll state my question – would this change your recommendation/review of the trainer? I am still able to exchange for another option and one of the things that attracted me initially was the lack of needing to calibrate – now it seems like the Neo is the only option with that feature.) Thanks!
Postby Elite Admin S » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:12 am
Hi
Absolutely, it is also a good habit to calibrate it about every month ;)
Run the app my e-training, do a ten minutes warm up, then open the advanced configuration and run the guided calibration.
After the calibration, you should have a very precise reading
Let me know if all goes well
aitorm78 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:20 am
Hi. I find it a bit weird. I understood that the Elite Drivo self-calibrates and does not support external calibration commands. Is not it?
User avatarElite Admin S
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:18 am
Re: Drivo calibration ?
Postby Elite Admin S » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:40 am
Hi
I think there has been a misunderstanding on this topic.
It is self calibrating in the sense that it doesn’t need an external power sensor (as it has its own).
But you need to give it the command to calibrate.
Regards
Re: Drivo calibration ?
Postby jbroussia » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:31 am
I don’t see any calibration option in the advanced configuration screen in My e-training app ? :oops:
Re: Drivo calibration ?
Postby Elite Admin S » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:03 am
Please do again the configuration and don’t select any external power sensor during the configuration.
Then check if the calibration option appears.
I’ll also add – I followed the last instructions (in the Elite thread I posted above) and was able to send a calibration command via the phone app and it performed a spindown similar to my tacx vortex.
Hi DCR,
first of all thanks a lot for your effort and service.
I’m impressed in particular by your comparison of the Power Tap P1 and Quark powermeters with the Elite Drivo’s. They all semm to show very similar measurements.
On the other hand this is astonishing to me, cause the Drivo takse the measurement “downstream” the chain and the two others “upstrem” the force-flow (P1 @ pedal axis, Quark @ crank/spider. Considering this I would expect the Drivo data roundabout 10 W reduced, as this is a typical magnitude for chain+gear friction losses.
This Topic is certainly not specific to your test or trainers, but generaly relevant for comparisons of powermeters as Long some of them measure in the rear hub (e.g. Power Tap G3).
On the other hand it is of significant relevance for ergometers/trainers, that claim to officiate as reverence regardingy calibration tool for other powermeters. How do “they” deal with this?
Do you or does anybody know somthing about? Or do you think it worth a question to Elite?
Elite have removed our access to premium features of the desktop app even though it got sold with lifetime subscriptions now they published the new desktop software.
They now claim that it was only access to the app that was lifetime, not the desktop. Such a backwards move, makes me feel sorry i have bought one if that is the business practice of this company.
Has anyone been able to challenge this?
Ray – do you have inside track with elite to find out what the scoop is as the admins on the board are playing dumb?
Yeah the other day I tried to use their app to do pedal analysis and gave up after the subscription requirements. Just came across as cheap when you are spending so much on a trainer in the first place.
Seems they are denying that was the case. However forum admins are at this point refusing to answer any questions on it. There are various postings from people asking about their drivo subscription.
The current position is – only the app is covered, not the desktop.
They also not releasing my postings on it in the forum, Stuck at moderation, guess elite trying to avoid too public a discussion on this . Guess it’s twitter time !
correct – pedal analysis was never free, but the desktop was lifetime. It is now also no longer possible to play the alp d’huez video or any other purchased content without paying the license.
No chance though, i rather pay the guys from veloreality who are the most friendly and responsive bunch i met.
As buggy and clunky as the previous windows desktop version is/was I don’t think I want to invest more time with the new version. Being forced to pay for it just makes it easier to move on. I can re-calibrate using the iPad version. The Alpe D’Huez video is old and of mediocre quality. There is also a resistance bug in the player; if your profile uses LBS it fails to convert them to KG correctly.
I purchased the pedaling software for my iPad when I first got my Drivo. It was interesting to look at for a while but doesn’t offer me much value. It is pretty hard to make any improvements in you pedaling without having real time feed back during a workout.
Kind of agree, but on the other hand not interested in letting companies getting away with it that easy. They have not released a single firmware upgrade to fix some of the crazy erg behaviour and then when they release new training software refuse to honour their commitment.
Very telling is that elite are moderating out any conversation on this topic on their forum. There is a feature that shows three last unmodded posts and you could see lots of them on this topic. They never make it to the real forum ;-)
Elite help desk just responded to ticket I raised. Elite are sticking to their guns that desktop was never a lifetime subscription. Ah well time to permanently move on from them then. No chance I am giving them extra after spending a grand on a trainer.
Great example of how to lose future sales of high end equipment for a miserable 20EUR a year
Interestingly, while I haven’t used the desktop version for a long while, I just tried it and it still works, perhaps because I bought the Drivo in January last year? For folks that find it not working, have they owned the Drivo for over a year?
Thanks Steve, Elite released new platform last few weeks. I guess you still tried to use the original version?
I haven’t tried the old version – wiped it out when installing new on, guess could try to reinstall. Feels like time to move on as Jon stated. Veloreality SW and videos beat the elite ones by a mile, especially when trying to pair this all with 4Kscreen.
Yes, still using the old version. I was asked if I wanted to update to the new version when I opened it and opted not to based on comments here so perhaps it is the new version that requires annual subscription.
Sorry, I got some clarification on this but hadn’t had the time to circle back on it.
Elite is saying that the specifics of the ‘bundle’ was that Drivo users would get free lifetime access to the MyETraining app, but that it doesn’t include the pedaling analytics portion, which is a one-time in-app fee of €8.99.
I don’t have anything I can find one way or the other from them in writing on the pedaling fee portion in relation to the app being free.
I know there has been a lot of discussion about this lately and I have a point worth making, albeit opinion. I too was under the impression that the desktop software was for life but when I pulled up my old activation code it says “LIFETIME FREE SUBSCRIPTION FOR MY E-TRAINING APP” (not yelling, it was typed in capitals). So I don’t see where the confusion is happening for others (although I started my desktop last September and it still works).
But here is the opinion part. The desktop and phone software is really lousy! Unless you use the desktop for HD videos there are sooo many other options that are much better. I am currently using an app called ICW – Indoor Cycling Workout on my Android phone. The key benefit with this app is that it is NOT a supcription, $4 one time fee. You may have to pay a bit more for certain programs but that is not a big deal in my mind. The Real kicker (LOL I won’t explain that pun) is that it let’s you train by percent functional power similar to Trainer Road for a one time fee. The biggest drawback is that you have to create most of the workouts on your own unless you like the ICW selection. To me this makes sense because I have a hard time wrapping my mind around paying $12 US/mth for a software worth about $40-50.
Sidebar though, wasn’t really focused on the pedaling part ( think that was JoeBlogs mentioning it ). It is more the fact that the new desktop software is no longer accessible for us original purchasers whilst they never mentioned access to that was time limited.
Elite seems to purposely mix the two up in their statements so that people are confused.
The desktop software was fully accessible without any voucher codes and delivered activated on CD. There was no voucher needed to get full access. The mobile platform app itself required extra activation via the voucher.
As stated they have either lost the original marketing folks to remind them what they did a year ago or worse, they are willfully misguiding folks. Either way, as said time to move on and leave it to rest. Worst things to worry about ;-)
Yep, same here, got the response that the activation included with the trainer is only for the mobile version of the app… Not sure what the idea behind that is, as they are identical products. Ah well, at least it works on both iphone and ipad. A bit bummed to find out you still have to pay for each of their realvideos though… Ah well*2, I guess I’ll just stick to zwift :) – or might try some of the user videos.
My free subscription code with my 4 day old Drivo says “LIFETIME FOR MY E-TRAINING”. No mention of it being just for a phone, so I assumed that it was also applicable for the PC.
The iphone app is working OK other than having to buy the pedal analysis software, but the PC version won’t let me use the pedal analysis without having first bought the annual subscription.
I was surprised to find that my Element is working almost perfectly with FE-C to control the Drivo. Only hiccup is the speed read, but that probably needs the x3.46 adjustment on wheel circumference.
I’m just setting up my Drivo. And, the software isn’t Mac/OS compatible! I’m surprised I didn’t read about this in any of the reviews I read online. I went as far as to create a Virtual Box on the Mac that allowed me to download Windows per the Elite website recommendation, and now I’m getting a message saying the CD is corrupted and I should get a new copy. Super annoying.
I ran a test on my drivo with power resistance set to zero. I was able to put 320w pedaling the 53 11 at 90rpm. I could even sprint. I know there is supposed to be some resistance in the unit but is normal to be this high?
This is not “zero resistance”, it’s level zero resistance which you should understand as minimal possible resistance. There will always be resistance on your trainer. What you’re describing seems normal. I checked Drivo power curve and minimal power at 53-11 and 90 rpm should be around 300W.
Thank you. That makes sense.
I commented somewhere that I tried Virtugo and the slope realism seems much better compared to Zwift. At least for me.
This is what I wrote :
ZWIFT.
“I set the trainer to 100%.
The slope was 6.7%. I weight 185lbs, with a 39-21 at 63 rpm, the power output was 286W. I might be wrong but that wattage seems high compared to when I ride outside.
I looked into it and it seems it is a combination between the flywheel energy and trainer road not processing all the raw data. Saying that, the problem is not isolated to the Drivo either. The hammer and Wahoo have the same issues. Training at VO2 Max, repetitive sprints or higher ftp variations. Steady power works just fine.
Trainer Road recommended to use the small ring on a high gear to decrease the flywheel energy and large power variations. It is not perfect but it is working great for me now. Currently, I am riding a lot stronger on the road.
During road simulation Zwift. The Drivo is the best feeling trainer out there.
^^^ and i can pick up a Kickr or Drivo for same price (£800 UK), which one would you pick!?
Brian, in my non expert opinion, i’d go for the drivo over directo as it can simulate higher gradients which might be important if you like doing any VR rides of steep alpine passes, or want to accurately have the Zwift radio tower steepness.
From what i have read, although a trainer might say max 14% (in the case of the directo) it cant always replicate this at lower speeds. Also bigger flywheel on the Drivo. But if max slope and realism of steep climbs isnt important (it is for me) then id go with the Direto
But today I was rearranging my storage and trying to get my Drivo back in action after a few months off, and I couldn’t find my power supply. I found one in a box full of similar items, and was able, by comparison to your pictures, to prove that it was the right one.
Dirty secret: The very specific reason I include the power meter adapters in my trainer unboxings is exactly what you just noted…but…for myself. :)
I’ve since started cutting out a tiny bit of the manual that shows the logo of the trainer and then taping that to the charging block, allowing me to easily figure out who is who. I did that after I fried a KICKR one year.
Have been reasonably happy with my Drivo. After about 10 months of regular Zwift sessions the belt felt like it was slipping while out of the saddle above 250 watts. I contacted Elite support and they sent me the belt tension adjustment process. The tension adjustment is easy and they have you do a recalibration after the adjustment. So all is well and I turn off the Drivo. When I turn it on a few days later I hear a series of grinding sounds during poweron that I had never heard before.
I contact Elite support and they had me send them a video of the tension adjustment motor running during powerup, this requires opening the case. Elite support then run a diag program via a remote session on my Windows laptop connecting to the Drivo via my ANT+ dongle. The diag determined my control board has some form of failure and it has to be replaced. Elite is going to send me a replacement board and I assume they will have to do some form of calibration or check again when I replace the board.
So maybe this is a fringe case but my Drivo is probably going to be down for a couple weeks during a time I would be using it daily. Elite Support has been responsive but the reality of the timezone difference between the
west coast of the US and Italy is very apparent. There will also be the delay of shipping a new board, from I assume Italy, and the time it takes to pass through USA customs and arrive at my door step.
Thumbs up to Elite support, they sent the replacement board via DHL and it got to my door in 4 days. The board replacement was simple and all that was required afterwards was to run the standard calibration process from my iPad. I just completed a Zwift training session and the trainer worked perfectly and there was no sign of any belt slippage. While I had the case open I also lubed the drive belt with lithium grease so the trainer is as quiet now as it was when new.,
Hi Ray,
I’m looking for a recommendation here,
recently I’ve upgraded to Tacx Flux but it’s faulty within a week.
Prior to that I’ve got a Tacx Flow, it returned it twice before I got a working unit.
Now I don’t want to go through the same thing,I wanted to swap the Flux for Direto or Drivo.
Currently the price difference between Direto and Drivo is only £25 in the UK.
Should I go for the first version Drivo or Direto?
I know that Drivo has been superseded by Drivo 2 but the price difference is too much for me to pay.
I’m in the same situation, my third flux is going back to Halfords and I’ve gone for the drivo to replace it. When my gfs flux bites the dust I’ll do the same (its only a matter of time) , I’m sick of fluxs!
What led you to go for the Drivo over the Direto if I may ask. I’m trying to get my first direct drive trainer and trying to figure out which is the better option Drivo1 or Direto? Thanks.
Hi all,
The drivo is on sale on Amazon for around $671. Should I pull the trigger or suck it up and get the Kickr or Neo Smart 2? I plan on riding the trainer for 3-4 days a week at 1-2 hours each time.
I’ve had my Elite drivo for close to two years. I use it mainly during the colder months or foul weather, with Zwift. No problems here. I haven’t kept track of pricing, but if that is still well below the going price, assuming it is a reputable seller, I’d go for it.
Hello,
I have a problem with your graphics in erg mode 30×30 on web page vs the analyser because there aren’t the same ?
I think the web page graphic is a smoothed graph (x second average ?)
In the analyser graphics, we can see huge variations (>100W) in the power as reported in a lot of following comments.
Your comment : “the above is a beautiful graph” is not true about variations but true about the good following between power meter and HT.
If you think it is an important point maybe you could correct this point.
The Elite Driveo is currently reduced in the UK from £1,200 to £589. Is this as much of a bargain as it seems, or is this trainer now outdated and the lower price reflects that?
Hi, I’m considering using my old bike which is an 8 speed shimano sora to use with this. Do you know if I could get an 8-speed cassette to work? Because I have heard 8/9 speeds cassettes are the same size. Would I just use the same spacers as if I was running a 9 speed? Thanks.
Hi Ray,
I have this Elite Drive model, like it very much, but for the first time I need to store it “in the upright position” so to speak, as you show on one of the pictures. Mine is not stable at all! Meaning that it cannot stay upright unless I lean it against the wall: but then I do not think it is a safe storage, especially if a kid tries to move it, it may… fall heavily on said kid.
I appreciate this was a long time ago but was yours stable?
It’s been a while as you noted (about half a decade), but no, I don’t remember it being terribly stable in the closed/upright position. Like other storage modes on other trainers, it’s mostly about consolidating the space and getting it out of the way.
Hi. I realize I’m asking this related to a 5+ yr old review…a lightly used Drivo popped up in a used market for under 500, and a new one can still be acquired on Amazon for 650 (USD). I’m looking to upgrade from a fluid roller Kinetic and am wondering if this unit is still a valid choice at those prices, or if newer devices have evolved enough for this to be on the obsolete for the price side of the fence. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
I’ve just purchased a second used unit for my gf. They are the best I’ve had. The direto is pants in comparison as are the tacx flux (all 4 units failed). Perfect accuracy, no calibration, great reliability, built like a tank.
Benjamin, that’s a bit of the struggle for me. If all reports are that they’re very reliable units, it seems a relatively low risk to purchase used, and put the $150 towards something else. (plus I think I enjoy the sense of ‘gamble’ from getting deals on used gear at times).
Thanks again everyone for the feedback.
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Interesting stuff as usual!
Two remarks:
– to make your life easier, put a small mirror under the camera and you won’t have to look ‘around the corner’ to see the decibel meter ;-)
– that optical sensor and the teeth as a power meter is pretty nifty, never heard of that. In your opinion, could that principle be used on bicycles in some way, offering yet an alternative way to get power and bikes (and hopefully driving prices further down in the process)?
Thanks!
That powermeter idea was done in the ergomo BB. Single sided, poor customer support, lots of failures and issues with the product.
Yeah, I was trying to find a small mirror that day, but eventually gave up. It’s on my shopping list. :)
As for power meter tech, remember that (customer issues aside), the tech that trainers can use indoors is dramatically different than bikes outdoors. Trainers don’t typically deal with things like off-road usage, cobbles, water, snow, etc…
> Trainers don’t typically deal with things like off-road usage, cobbles, water, snow, etc…
Doesn’t the Tacx Neo have “Crashing into a Pond” as a road pattern yet?
That feature is only offered within the UK markets, as there seems to be a dramatically higher occurrence rate of people following GPS units into ponds: link to techdirt.com
Much appreciated. For the illustration of the inside of the power meter, i think you meant “Provided by Elite”.
Indeed, thanks!
Hi Ray
Not directly related to this review, but one of the images in this review shows an edge 1000 with the following buttons:
– Follow a Course
– Follow an Activity
– Follow a Workout
– Set Resistance
– Set Target Power
How do you activate that screen and get access to those options. I can’t find them on me edge 1000. Will it work with my Kickr?
Thanks for your help
Thanks
Once you add your KICKR as an FE-C trainer (ensure the firmware has been updated at least once since last winter), you’ll see the new options under ‘Training’*.
*I don’t have an Edge 1000 with me at the moment, but it’s roughly called that. A bit more detail in my FE-C post here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the update..
I updated my Kickr’s firmware as you suggest, but I still don’t see an option under Workouts that gives me Follow a Course etc. My Edge is connected to the Kickr.
I don’t have an Edge 1000 with me travelling right now, but I have a 520 and 820. On the 520, it’s located under:
Training > Indoor Trainer > (Options in screen here)
Note that you do need to be connected to your FE-C trainer those options.
Hi Ray,
I found it! On the Edge 1000 its under Settings>Indoor Trainer>.. Not where I would expect it to be, but that’s Garmin logic.
So now I’m off to cycle a course now. I’ll be back on Zwift next month when the weather gets worse. But this is nice to have in the meantime.
Anyway thanks for your wonderful blog!
Another great review, Ray.
Seems to me we are spoilt for choice these days :)
I’ve been hovering over the virtual buy button for the Neo, but have some concerns, the kickr 2 looks great again but it’s not a massive step up from my kickr1. The Drivio looks like a good middle ground and the accuracy is a big win,
so I’m no considering going with the Elite.
any word on when you’ll be releasing a final Neo review?
or is the executive overview the one you are sticking with?
cheers!
I’m trying to get a NEO review out as well. I won’t return until the 28th, so it definitely won’t be before then.
Thanks, Ray. I’m not sure how you fit it all in tbh ;-)
Is there a new Neo trainer?
I was simply asking Ray when he planned to published a full review of the Neo, as the one currently on the blog was a hands on “executive” overview. :)
link to dcrainmaker.com
Great review. Every electronically-controlled trainer should come with an ANT+ stick. It’s one thing fewer for a 1st time buyer to buy to realize the full potential of their purchase.
Except Kurt Kinetic. They’re off the hook for terrible reasons.
Looking forward to the Rampa review, I’m in the market for a mid range trainer and so holding off untill reviews are here… Almost bought a tacx vortex last year but after seeing the tacx forums I didn’t buy.
Ray, could also be interesting to add to your reviews a kind of “future proof scale”, I realize that might be difficult, e.g. the new elite ones will probably get updates while the Vortex is already 2 years old so might be less future proof if bought this fall. I’m now in my 6th year on a Tacx Satori, I suppose people usually buy a trainer for a longer period of time…
Hi Ray! I can see you have a new tri bike Trek. Why did you get rid of the cervelo? What has changed with the new Trek?
Thanks
link to dcrainmaker.com
Thanks ;-)
Ray, you mention:
“Now of course it’s not 100% silent, but the trainer that is costs $400 more.”
From the comparison table, the Drivo is $1,299/€1,390 while the NEO is $1,599USD/1,100EUR, i.e. the Drivo is 300 USD cheaper but 290 EUR more expensive. Is there really such a large difference in pricing across regions? In that case the Drivo could have a hard time versus the NEO in Europe.
It’s simply what happens when I can’t do mental math. :)
Regional pricing is super-tricky in Europe. I wrote up something a while back, but since I’m not sure where I wrote it, the short version is that since the US has MAP (Minimum Advertised Price), companies can set a price and it’ll stick. Whereas that practice is illegal everywhere else in the world.
So in Europe, retailers (primarily online sites, and even within that, a small handful) will sell it for whatever they’d like. So a NEO could go for 999EUR, and the site does that because they’ll sell at cost, or even a loss, and see it as a marketing move for your future business.
Thus, pricing in Europe is all over the map and I don’t usually try and compare it there.
Well, in Europe there is no MAP policy like there is in USA so indicating pricing is challenging… the NEO MSRP in Europe ranges actually between 1,400EUR/1,600EUR depending on the country.
Would this trainer have any issues with tri bikes that have a narrow seatstay the way the Neo has. Also any word on when Neo will be fixing that problem.
The unit ‘drops away’ from the frame more quickly than the NEO does (which tapers outwards), so it might be better, but I’d be hard to say 100% on a frame by frame basis.
On the Tacx side, they’ve released a new shell design on the NEO (only change to it), that should help. I believe those units started going out either last month, or this month.
Thanks very much for the link to the Zwiftcast Ray.
I’d really urge people to listen to episode nine. The overview of what’s new and what’s good in smart trainer land from the MAN is very instructive.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed!
hi ray thanks for another excellent review.
having been using a cycleops powerbeam pro “wheel on” trainer for my indoor training over the last few winters I am now looking to upgrade to a direct “wheel off” trainer this year so I am taking great interest in reading your current reviews. before pulling the trigger on any trainer I will wait to until you publish your reviews on the cycleops hammer and tacx flux. up until reading this review the tacx neo was probably going to be the way I was heading based on your opinion as to it be being the “best bang for buck” trainer available so far, however I still have my reservations on this choice as I am still reading posts with regards quality/operational issues with this trainer. I am looking forward to reading your upcoming reviews on the tacx flux and cycleops hammer before deciding. thanks!
Can you post a picture of the end of plug for the cable (that goes from the wall into the power supply).
Is the end one of these?
Thanks
Yup, one of those. You can kinda see it in the unboxing picture of the power supply.
It looks like a promising addition to the trainer market. I’m surprised they went with that design for the cover, it looks like a bike is connected to an early 90’s Gateway2000 tower. :)
Wondering if Elite is still the most Mac-unfriendly trainer company in the market, or if the combination of ANT+/Bluetooth neutralizes that somewhat. Will this work with Zwift, etc. on a Mac?
Works just fine on a Mac with Zwift, TrainerRoad, etc… Basically, identical to Wahoo, Tacx, and Kinetic in not having any Mac-specific software.
But these days, there’s no real reason for trainer companies to release platform-specific software.
Hi Ray,
I’ve got an extremely old trainer (tacx sirius) and a power meter that I currently use with Zwift, but having used a friends Tacx Neo, I love the FE-C control.
I’m guessing that part of the expense of the trainers is the in-built power meter?
Is it possible to implement FE-C without a power-meter?
I guess what I’m asking is, is there a way of getting a trainer that will control Zwift or similar, without having to fork out a large sum again (and never getting to use it as the mrs will kill me!)
Actually, FE-C is available in a number of cheaper trainers. Such as the Elite Rampa, the Tacx Bushido and the Tacx Vortex, and Wahoo KICKR SNAP and CycleOps Magnus. No need for a power meter within the trainer, but there is a need to be able for the unit tell power. Most trainers uses known characteristics to determine power output, rather than an actual power meter within it.
So yup, you can get Zwift to control your trainer starting around $500USD.
Does it come in another color besides beige so it doesn’t look like you’re riding a dialysis machine?
No. However, my understanding is that the hardware store sells bright orange spray-paint, so you could paint it that color and feel more like a traffic cone. Adds to the road-like feel.
Without uncertainty calculation in the calibration certificate the calibration results are not considered to be as yet traceable to a national standards. The reference system and test procedures used during the calibration of the Elite Drivo may have a measurament uncertainty higher than 1%.
So, the Elite Drivo “Total error” is approximately = measurament uncertainty + 1% …..
:)
I would be more interested in knowing short and long term stability of the power meter reading, especially with various room/elite temperature.
Maybe use a hairdryer on the sensor to see effect of temperature drift :)
Thanks Ray for your good work
Power numbers looks spot on from the very start of the ride. It means ‘cold’ start doesn’t affect them at all. I really doubt there is any significant temperature drift in normal indoor conditions. I don’t know about extremes (like freezing cold, super hot, dramatic temperature shifts) but I’am afraid such conditions would be outside of operational temperature margin of the whole system (electronics etc.). I guess we will have to wait and see.
The German Lab is ISO 17025 accredited, and thus all measurements and calibrations are certified and traceable.
But without telling us the uncertainty value the Elite Drivo 1% error is meaningless and not traceable. It is a standard requirement of 17025.
Sorry if this was clarified elsewhere but I didn’t see it with quick search.
I would like clarification of “simulation mode”, or “gradient” as ultimately there are only watts. The power to get up a hill of 5% depends mostly on my speed and the weight of my gear and body. Does one input weight in order for simulation mode to know what resistance is appropriate?
If I set it to 10%, my total weight (bike, clothes, body) and use my singlespeed will it feel like a 10% road climb?
If it doesn’t know my weight, what does it do?
Thanks!
Agreed! If I was to target 200W at a 10% incline, would that work? Tied back to road feel?
Charlie Anderson: Oh! I think I see what you mean: ‘simulation’ is not of appropriate resistance for my weight, but of inertia. A bike will coast a long time on the flat and only a short time on a steep grade, that is emulated by varying the inertia?
Anyway, I’d rather be told correct info rather than guess.
For simulation mode, ANT+ FE-C (the trainer protocol) takes the user’s weight and the bike’s weight as parameters. You fill these out in the software which sends them to the trainer. Air density is also a parameter, but most programs seem to use the default values here.
The resistance generated by the trainer is based on speed, weight and grade. This is done by the trainer, not the software.
How many simultaneous connections can BTLE handle.
I am a bit confused as googling seems to suggest only one connection at a time, for example (the reason i was googling) Connecting the Drivo to iOS trainerroad, whilst connecting bluetooth headphones to listen to music is apparently not possible(?).
However it seems obvious that a Garmin 1000 can connect to a bluetooth speed cadence, a heart rate strap, and a power meter ….. so perhaps google was wrong? How many simultaneous connections (one being a reliable Drivo connection) can BTLE on iPhone handle?
BTLE can only do one concurrent connection on the sensor side. However, on the master side (i.e. your phone), you have a full BT chipset, so it can do multiple concurrent connections.
The Edge 1000 (as with all Garmin products) uses ANT+ (no BLE sensor support, just phone sync), which supports effectively unlimited connections on the sensor side.
“Perhaps upon my return from Interbike I’ll do one comparing it head to head with the new KICKR”
Yes please! And one against the NEO… maybe in this one or in the upcoming NEO review? :)
Side-by-side comparisons are the stuff!
Hi DC,
Great write up, as always. I’m particularly intrigued by one of your comments which has been front of mind for me recently:
“Once powered on, the unit is instantly ready to ride. There’s actually no calibration of the unit, nor roll-down process for it. It’s basically identical to the higher end Tacx NEO trainer in that regard. Attempting to send a calibration command to it from an app (or via FE-C) just results in a confused blank stare from the trainer. It’s basically saying: “I don’t need none of that peasantry roll-down stuff, I’m self-calibrated 100% of the time”. Roughly.”
I can understand the Drivo and Neo being ‘ready to ride’, but how does this apply to other trainers in this class? I’m aware that the Kickr has a bit of power drift and as such needs ~15 minutes to ‘warm up’ (at least I think this is what i’ve read). Would that warm-up also apply to other trainers of the same ‘format’, such as the upcoming Hammer?
And, asked in a different way: If someone is in the market for a ‘ready to ride’ trainer without warm-up calibration, would they be restricted to the Neo and Drivo?
We don’t know on the Hammer yet. My guess is that it’ll be in the 5-10 warm-up area. Wahoo is also saying (in my most recent chat with them) that 5-10 minutes at most for KICKR2, but even that isn’t really required (again, according to them).
So yes, in a nutshell, just NEO/DRIVO (and Elite KURA, but that’s not FE-C controllable).
Anyone looking to purchase a high end trainer is going to have the tools to change cassettes and shouldn’t be an issue when comparing trainers
I’ve been semi-surprised from feedback to find out that’s not the case. I suppose if you only have one bike (or even two bikes), it likely has a cassette on it, so little reason to have those tools otherwise.
The thought that there are people out there with only one bike, with only one set of wheels, is frankly absurd. Anyone who suggests such a thing immediately loses all credibility. Where someone would get such an idea is beyond me?!?
Actually, many triathletes won’t have multiple bikes. They’ll have their tri bike, and that’s it. Sure, they may have some sort of random around town type bike, but it’s not super common for triathletes to have multiple road bikes like roadies.
Also, if you’re buying wheels from a local bike shop, they’re likely to just toss the cassette on for you. Again, no need to have such tools themselves.
They are missing out on half the fun! – or is that frustration?
Well, I (and perhaps several others) think it’s absurd that you believe everyone should be able to afford (or has the desire) to own more than one bike with only one set of wheels.
As for myself, I own two bikes that I currently use, but a Trek road bike and a Cannondale mountain bike and have an older spare set of wheels for my road bike. But, not everyone owns more than one bike and/or set of wheels of whatever type of bike and I recognize that fact.
Your comments frankly comes off as a bit arrogant and rather disrespectful of cyclists who are in a different income bracket or have different desires than you.
I think he was pretty obviously being facetiously sarcastic in that comment from 11 months ago. Reminds me of the definition of sarchasm.
Well, I guess I didn’t pick up on the sarcasm. So, there is one of two conclusions here:
1. It’s obvious that I am not that good at picking up on the obvious sarcasm, or;
2. Maybe his sarcasm isn’t that obvious, as DCR himself commented with his post that not all people have more than one bike.
That’s the problem quite often encountered with sarcasm, especially with online forms because you can’t express tone of voice very well. On one hand someone could interpret sarcastic comments as humour. But, at the same time, someone else could interpret it as insulting.
So, we’ll just leave it at that.
Ray,
In your annual trainer recommendations guide which you will post probably end september / begin october. Will you also be covering the existing vortex smart and bushido smart? Or will recommendations/tests be the same as in your past recommendations guide?
The thing is: I would like to buy a new trainer to replace my current Tacx I-Flow/I-Magic which I only use connected to my PC using TTS 3 software and I already had a look on the different products and want to spent about 500€ max.
Now I see some different options:
Tacx Vortex Smart T2180 with tabletholder: 356 euro (no TTS software)
Tacx Bushido Smart T2780 (2nd hand) without tabletholder: 360 euro (unit is second hand but alsmost as new, no TTS software)
Tacx Bushido Smart T2780 (new) without tabletholder 478 euro (no TTS software)
What would be the best option of those or would it be better to wait until end of september/begin october because of prices dropping when new trainers will be launched? Or will some prices increase?
Thx,
Peter
it doesn’t need a warm up and is super accurate!
Kickr, hammer who?
I MUST have it!
It’s called ‘Hammer Time’. One should always call it Hammer Time. I’m hoping it’ll stick.
Can’t touch this…
I get where you are going with the statement that the certificate of accuracy from an independent accredited lab doesn’t mean much to you as you still need to test it according to normal operating conditions, but that might lead some of your readers down an incorrect thought path. I know you understand that your testing is not scientifically backed or traceable to actual standards. Yes, comparison to a known “best in industry” is better than nothing, but it will never match what an accredited lab can produce for the simple reason of standards. Ideally, I would prefer an accredited lab take a power meter or trainer through the steps that you take them through (cobbles, response lag, temp, overshoot, hysteresis), but they don’t get paid for that, and some of those tests wouldn’t have a standard to test to anyways. Even better yet, I would love to see you get a traceable ergometer that could be connected to the drivetrain of your bike, and then you could be the perfect set up for power meter and trainer testing. Until that day, I will still read and enjoy your posts and reviews. Thanks for all you do.
Don’t get me wrong, I think lab testing can be useful – and is far better than nothing.
However, anytime a company pays for lab testing, then they’re deciding whether or not to release those results. So, we never get to see the other side of the coin if it fails horribly. We only see sunny days.
In this particular case, my concern with this lab testing is that we actually don’t know the test. They’ve basically said “We’ve tested it!”, versus saying exactly what they did. For example, most trainers will be more accurate at higher wattages. So a lab could test at a (mostly) non-human 1,500w, and be within 1%, but at 150w would be within 2-4%.
I’m not saying that’s what happened here (and I really don’t think it is), but I’m just trying to have folks understand the caveats when companies don’t publish test protocols. All other major certifications (i.e. ISO certifications) have very clear test protocols. Ironically, it’s something I’ve been approached by many times by many companies (trainers and power meters) in the industry about getting together a group to define what those test protocols are. Most companies actually seem to want to find a way to agree upon a definition.
Yep, that response is exactly what I wanted to assure other readers knew about you. Being a long time reader myself, I knew where you stood on this issue, and also knew you had been approached by companies. If you had a clone, I would love to see Ray.2 take on that role that the companies have asked of you. ISO, ASTM, DIN, and other industry recognized testing standard organizations have numerous testing protocols that you could piece together to test a power meter or trainer, but a one stop consolidated protocol is what Ray.2 would be extremely useful in creating. Then if company X produced a power meter or trainer they would only have to produce the results of that protocol. Of course those results would need to be well documented, reproducible, and traceable. That testing would also be best conducted by an independent accredited lab. If I had money and the huevos to pursue it, as a test engineer and a triathlete it would be my dream job. Still, I think Ray.2 is a more likely scenario.
Ray,
Yes, please take this on. I will commit you to do this :)
Ideally the test protocol for trainers and power meters would be very similar and include:
1). Steady state – e.g., measure / hold wattage levels from 50 to 1000 watts, in 25 watt increments
2A). Progressively larger step jumps to test response time & over / under shoot characteristics – e.g., increase power from 200 watts to 250 watts, increase from 200 to 300 watts, increase from 200 to 400 watts, etc.
2B). Basically the reverse of 2A: step from higher to lower wattage.
3). Ramp test – increase wattage from 50 to 1000 watts at a 1 watt / second
Just my thoughts
We do what you describe in our lab, in a rig with a HBM T12 Torque transducer traceable to national standards. The only thing we currently cannot handle are pedals, since we attach the rig to the BB. The pyramid testing and rpm independent power output is challenging even for Ergometry Made for lab use…
Great review – those comparison graphs are special !
in a galaxy far far away . . .
Drivo is Rebel Alliance, Neo is Empire.
Ray – now that you have done in-depth on both the Drivo and Kickr which would you recommend? I need to get a trainer before November so won’t be considering the Flux.
Ray, I’d like to make two requests/suggestions for your upcoming tests on the Tacx Flux and Elite Rampa. For each I’d like to explain why I think these tests are important/unique.
When testing the Tacx Flux as well as accuracy I like to know how consistent the power readings are. We’ve all been through this thinking over power meters and it seems just as important here. My current wheel on trainer with its +/- 5% accuracy is rubbish in this respect as that +/- 5% accuracy is also +/- 5% inconsistency. This means varied clamp pressure and a different wheel/tyre/bike can mean one ride is 10% different to another – which is useless for power based training. The wheel off nature of this trainer should eliminate this and even if accuracy is off, for a ANT+ FE-C trainer at this price point then good consistency could be enough to make this trainer a winner.
When you test the Elita Rampa there is an aspect to this trainer that puts it in a category of its own unlike any other trainer. As well as testing if the trainer itself is a hit I’d also be delighted if you could test the aspect that sets it apart as others may follow. Currently most (cheaper) trainers use power curves and current speed to generate power numbers. As a result if you want to do 10 second sprints at high power then it’s impossible, as even incredible power (I wish) goes unrecognised as you build up speed at the start of the sprint and by the time you have the flywheel up to speed the interval is over. Previously the only way around this has been to either use a power meter in addition to the trainer or get an expensive ERG mode style trainer to vary the resistance. So can the Rampa be used for accurate sprints, should others follow? If this is the case then for TrainerRoad type users this trainer may be every bit as good as the pricier trainers, even if the Zwift types still want to pay the extra for controlled variable resistance.
You write about Rampa but I think you mean Kura (Rampa is smart wheel-on trainer with variable resistance). Kura’s power meter is the same as Drivo’s so it will react instantly to power changes. Your sprints won’t be ignored in power readings.
Michal – You’re quite right. I mean Kura.
I agree that the Kura ‘should’ be OK with sprints. But ‘should’ and do often don’t pan out do they.
When ever I’m doing sprint efforts on a smart trainer I put it in slope mode and use the bikes shifters.
But the one thing I have noticed is whether it’s a smart trainer with a onboard powermeter(powerbeam or wahoo1) or a smart trainer using estimated power(Vortex/Snap), is the power coming from the trainer is well behind traditional PMs and never really get the power peaks. My SRM, Stages and Powertap will always show higher power peaks and avg. power during short intense intervals using PerfPro or a hard acceleration on zwift. If you set up two riders on PerPro, one from the bikes pm and the other picking data up from trainer. Normalized power with the PM will be higher than the trainer because of this. I haven’t tried a NEO but I did order one of these Drivos based on nothing but hope before reading this review. My hopes are looking like reality with that tiny glitch that was picked up by the drivo.
Really impressed with the power meter. Does this trainer will have the same problems with a long cage as the Tacx Neo?
Re: the method used to measure torque: is the time difference measurement made between the two sets of teeth (which would mean that the two sets of teeth are at two different positions along the axle) or is the time difference measured between the time at which the torque is applied and the time at which axle at the position of the teeth responds to the torque (in this case the second set of teeth along with the second optical sensor would be used to increase the number of measurement samples and thus reduce any noise in the measurement)?
Anyone seen a second review of this trainer? If I’m going to trust anyone’s review it’s going to be Ray’s, but with a completely new trainer I’m hesitant to truly consider buying this based on a single review.
I’m in the market for a quiet direct drive trainer, and am down to Drivo vs. Neo vs. Kickr2. All three are basically the same cost for me here in Canada, within $100 so that’s a non-factor. My current summary of the arguable differences:
– Kickr2: loudest (but not much louder than Drivo), least accurate, needs calibration with each ride, but best company support and best company reputation and easiest to set up and can go unplugged (I think)
– Drivo: most accurate (supposedly), fairly quiet, no calibration, fairly easy to set up (simple cassette install), but may have issues fitting TT bikes and company with average reputation and brand new product with one review ever seen and only one online (and no local) store carrying it that I can find and even then not currently in stock
– Neo: very quiet (other than freewheel racket of course), very accurate, least stress to bike frame due to flexibility, downhill motor nice feature, ability to go unplugged, Ray’s #1 pick, good availability, 1 year old so bugs theoretically worked out already, but stories of defects and poor customer service and average reputation and toughest to set up (eg Campy tools needed for cassette but poor info on whether that’s still the case) and won’t fit TT bike easily (but fixed with new 2017 version)
Leaning strongly towards the Neo at this point, and need to decide soon with temperatures plummeting soon here in the Canadian prairies. Here’s hoping the upcoming big trainer roundup will help solidify my choice, and hopefully the first wave of Drivo owners will post reviews somewhere, along with other cycling review sites.
Michael, I’m not entirely sure of your assessment of TT bikes on the Drivo/Kura and 2017 Neo.
In the face of a complete lack of evidence I’ve been drawing more lines on trainers and bikes following the Tacx lead.
It looks to me (by this highly speculative and probably inaccurate method) as though the Drivo/Kura is still a safer bet than the 2017 Neo for TT bikes. The Elite turbos could also have three other bike compatibility advantages 1) If you have a Trek then the shorter shell should stop before DuoTrap sensor 2) The shorter shell should also stop short of integrated rear brakes that could be a problem with the Neo 3) You can change the angle of the Elite shell by changing the wheel size – So you could put a 650c front wheel on your 700c bike, ride lower and gain a bit of clearance. (I suspect the Kura in my picture is already on the 650c feet though)
All this is utter guesswork of course.
I’d love to hear from people that have one of these narrow chain-stay bikes and any of these new model trainers. We know the kind of bikes – Cannondale Slice, Fuji Norcom Straight, Spezialized Shiv, Treks with SAVE stays, small P5s, Falco etc. If anybody with these could confirm what bikes/size/year they have and the amount of clearance it might help inform other TT bike owners.
I notice that though the Neo now has a new shape that Tacx haven’t issued a new bike checking template or any information on chainstay angles so that you can check if your bike fits the new 2017 Neo rather than the old one.
I’ve found this review:
link to titaniumgeek.com
Hi Michael,
Where have you seen the Neo in Canada? I’ve had no luck? Tried to get MEC to order one without success. I’ve seen one on Amazon but that’s it. Any retailers you know of?
Thx!
Slightly off the subject but what software do you use for power meter analyzer? I’d like to compare the power data off a Computrainer to my Garmin Vector pedals.
It’s a bit of custom software. I’m close to opening it wider, and have a bunch of beta testers on it today. Soon!
Excellent news! Put me on the top of the list for when it comes out.
Hi Ray,
Our lab would love to help with beta testing if possible, I presume the software is built around the Wasp?
Something I’m missing in your trainer reviews is compatibility with all known axle standards known to man… 130/135 QR, 12×142, boost … important for those with both mountain, road and cross bikes
Hi Jens & Rob-
The tool is now open for those that would like to leverage it. You can read and register about it here: link to dcrainmaker.com
We’ve had a bunch of beta users on it for almost a year now, but are ready to start accepting anyone who wants to try it out.
Cheers!
It seems that TrainerRoad doesn’t support (Elite’s) Bluetooth Smart Control.
TR Support (incredibly quick response) suggested using Wahoo ANT+ dongle which is not really that great a solution as Wahoo Key + Lightening adapter is expensive, and (other than being messy) means HDMI output to bigger screen is not possible.
It seems that the Neo had this issue as well (i don’t know if it was resolved). Ergo/FE-C over Bluetooth is kindof implied by everyone (eg. Trainerroad logo on box).
I have submitted the idea to trainer road, so would appreciate others support and comments to the post linked below.
link to trainerroad.uservoice.com
Overall very impressed with both Drivo and Trainer Road.
Is Bluetooth-Trainer Control an issue with Zwift?
Interested i your thoughts Ray.
Hi, the cause is that Bluetooth Smart control for trainers is not a standard as it’s the ANT+ FE-C. This means that each manufacturer has developed its own custom protocol.
The main problem is that software developers like TR should implement into their software all the different protocols and this requires time/resources. I’m quite sure that TR will implement it in the future.
Is the Drivo’s resistance fully electrical or a hybrid of electrical/fluid resistance?
Hi Lukman,
the resistnace is magnetic electronically controlled.
Thank you for the reply.
I currently have the Turbo Muin. So was just wondering about the ‘feel’ of the resistance, since its no longer using fluid.
Fluid has this ‘the faster you pedal, the higher the resisntance’
HI all, somewhat new to indoor trainers so I apologize if this question seems foolish but before I shell out the big bucks on a Drivo or Neo Smart I want to make sure I can use it with my Garmin 820 courses. My objective is to be able to essentially pair the Garmin with the trainer then ride one of my normal pre-loaded courses such that it will effectively reproduce the same ride experience inside. I am not concerned with scenery or anything else since I simply plan to watch TV while riding on the trainer but I do want the trainer to mimic the elevation changes.
Thanks!
Is the same thing i’m looking for. as soon as the comparison between high end trainers will be ready i’ll buy elite drivo, tacx neo or kickr “2”…
my goals are:
1) create custom workouts with erg mod or sim mode (for example: 15′ WU, 5×5′ Vo2max etc etc)
2) race on IM bike course by downloading elevation files from one of the trainer app websites (trainerroad, bestbikesplit, kinomap)
download a valid elevation files is what worries me because of the thousand files avaiable online most of which need to be smoothed/verified/corrected.
After a some time figuring out how to set my Drivo up, i got the possibility to try it out. (The instructions are pretty bad! probably more confusing than helpful…). I connected to zwift and started riding… I stoped pretty soon though since i did not find the trainer that quiet at all… I can identify two sounds that i don´t believe come from the drivetrain: one clunking sound (mainly when i stop pedaling and the trainer spins down) and one ratching sound, pretty mellow but a bit annoying. Before i jump up again i would like to hear if any one else have experienced this? Is the clunking sound the resistance changing stepwise?
Ray,
Totally random question: what gear combination do you use on trainers when in “erg” mode?
Anything not cross-chained.
But historically I’ve always used a higher speed gear combination, because on older trainers like the CompuTrainer it kept the speed up and was better for the motor than a very low-speed combination at high wattages.
So typically I’ll do a big run up front, and then one of the lower rings in the back.
Hi Ray,
A quick question for you. I don’t get how the trainer is able to transmit my cadence. Do you have to put some sensor on your pedal or your crank ?
Thanks
I’m not Ray but I think I can answer this question. Drivo is able to do it in two ways. It calculates cadence from torque variance in power meter unit. In this scenario no additional sensor is required and you don’t need to put anything on your bike. You can also use traditional magnet based sensor installed on the frame, which you connect to the trainer through the wire. Second option gives batter cadence accuracy.
Thanks Michal
I would be quite amazed should your first option work. Is this a guess of yours or facts ?
Those are facts. You may even see photo of “optional” wired cadence sensor in this review. Calculating cadence from torque or roller speed variance is rather standard in smart trainers nowadays. Unfortunately this method is not perfect (especially on low wheel speeds), so probably that’s the reason why Elite gives option to use additional, more reliable magnet based sensor.
I confirm that the trainer calculates the cadence from the torque variation and that is possible to use the wired included cadence sensor as well.
The calculation of the cadence from the torque variation has a good accuracy and it’s much more stable compared to the calculation based on the speed, so the cadence is accurate is almost all the training situations.
A reason for having the wired cadence sensor included is for the Pedaling Analysis. The Pedaling Analysis function works fine even without it but having the wired sensor attached, lets the trainer to recognize the left leg. Without it, it’s impossible for the trainer understand which leg is pushing.
Hi – how quickly does the Drivo respond to power changes in erg mode? Couple seconds, 30 seconds? Thanks.
Finally another good in-depth review of Elite Drivo by Titanium Geeks link to titaniumgeek.com
Hi Ray,
I have read our articles or many years and never posted anything so first just wanted to thank you for all your time and effort you put into this.
I have just received delivery of my new Drivo and having tried riding with it using various software combinations (Trainer Road, Golden Cheetah, Elite’s Real software and Zwift) They all suggest that the trainer is putting out an average of about 50W less than my Rotor InPower power meter. I have also tried with a different rider to check that it wasn’t an issue of imbalance in my legs with the Rotor just being a left arm and they provided the same results to rule that out.
I was wondering if you have come across this sort of thing before as I have never had a smart trainer and couldn’t seem to find any similar issues online. Do you think this is likely to be a problem with my trainer or user error in some fashion?
Sorry for the long question but any advice on this would be much appreciated.
Iain
Without having a 3rd unit to compare, it’s going to be really hard to say. Fwiw, I never had much luck with InPower being accurate unfortunately (Gen1), though, I haven’t tested Gen2. Note this is assuming you’ve calibrated the ROTOR (you can’t calibrate the Drivo).
One thing to do is try doing something like a 100w test. That makes it really easy to know which is right. Or even 75w. Basically, something low enough that you can look at one of the two wattages and say “That’s not right” based on your gut.
Alternatively…find another friend with another power meter and invite them over for a few beers to ride on your trainer for 5 mins. :)
Sorry, unfortunately, without some sort of 3rd PM to validate, it’s just hard to know.
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll get a third power meter from a friend and retest to see where the discrepancy is coming from.
Trying the low power test at 100W it doesn’t feel right on the trainer (it feels too hard) but I guess if the ROTOR power meter had been showing me incorrect data for a while my perception of what that should feel like would be skewed!
Thanks again,
Iain
Hmmm, yet again it seems the review unit you’ve been sent doesn’t match up with the reality of what a consumer gets……
So – TrainerRoad – I did the Sufferfest Rubber Glove FTP test. As part of the warm-up there are 4 block efforts.
Essentially the Drivo was rubbish in matching my output to the target in ERG mode. It constantly over and under shoots, over-adjusting resistance and as well as the obvious power issues in the attached graph, this was clearly felt in the feet, that keeping to a constant cadence required softer and harder efforts.
Bloody trainers :)
Hmm, have you reached out to TrainerRoad? I ask because when I saw this with the KICKR, they were actually able to pull the logs from the ride and show where there was wireless dropouts. Meaning, it may not be the Drivo, but something in the environment.
I’d start there first…
For completeness I have asked them……however I’ve been using a KICKR for over 2 years, have an impeccable setup and never have any issues with things like zwift which are a bit more sensitive to dropouts both on ant and wifi. So unless retail units of the Drivo are lead lined……. ;-)
After a few back and forths with trainerroad to establish I’m not a moron :) the end conclusion was:
With the Elite Drivo being so new, there definitely is room for error on both Elite’s end and ours. You definitely seem to know what you’re talking about and if the KICKR is working fine then it doesn’t seem to be due to interferences. You may even want to try emailing Elite directly here: real@elite-it.com
Thanks for understanding and for the feedback! :)
So, I revert to my original statement that the unit you have been sent shows a very different output to the one I have here. In short, ERG mode is extremely poor indeed. I did contact Elite yesterday, no reply as yet.
Lee, did you get this sorted? I just received my new Drivo today and found erg mode almost worthless on Zwift. Also the unit frequently starts off at impossibly high resistance level and doesn’t decrease predictably or quickly. I’m starting to do searching now for troubleshooting and found a number of people with similar issues. Thanks
Paul D + Lee – did you guys find a solution for this? Same trouble here…
Hi All,
Fantastically informative site Ray, I have taken the plunge and purchased a Drivo. First smart trainer so really impressed how it takes indoor training to the next level.All is good connecting via ANT+.
Just wondering if anyone has had issues connecting via Bluetooth as cannot get Zwift to find the Drivo at all using my built in Bluetooth on my MacBook Pro. It is however showing as connected to the MacBook if I click on the Bluetooth icon in the menu bar of the MacBook.
If I use the Zwift app as the Bluetooth source it will find the Drivo as a controllable trainer and also under cadence but not as the power source.
I have posted on Titanium Geeks site also as he mentioned in his review he had had issues but only in the fact that the Drivo is quick to turn off the Bluetooth so you have to be quick with searching for it, which I have duly made sure I am. Have also completely reset the Bluetooth on my MacBook in case there was a clitch with it
Think I might have found why having an issue. Found this on Zwift site
macOS Sierra note: We’re aware that some users with macOS 10.12 have had issues with the built-in bluetooth feature, and we will try and issue a fix in the next 5-7 days to address this.
Good to hear Zwift and Bluetooth work. Trainer Road only connects as Speed and Cadence in the iOS app using Bluetooth (rendering it unusable). Trainerroad seem to have little interested in supporting non-kickr “FE-C control over Bluetooth”flavors so great to hear that Zwift are already on Bluetooth for Ergo mode.
Thanks again DC.
I have a dude. Is it possible to use the elite drivo on TACX app or Tacx Trainig software 4?.
Hi Juan,
yes, that’s possible using ANT+ communication. In fact, both share the ANT+ FE-C compatibility.
Note, Tacx app support Bluetooth Smart sensors so can read power, speed and cadence from the trainer using Bluetooth but it’s not able to interact with our trainers as we’re using a custom service.
Thanks a lot.
So, if I connect with ant+ dongle on iPad or android tablet. Will it change resistance automatically?
yes. that’s right
Thanks Ray for the great review as always. I actually bought the Drivo after reading your review.
I must say though that I am not happy so far with it based on my use of it so far. It seems to basically be set on crazy high resistance. I can’t turn the pedals with my hand to adjust the derailleur on the cassette freely and am forced to use my legs just pedal at all. I finally got the derailleur adjusted. But just sitting on the trainer and pedaling can be incredibly hard. As in I have to stand up and push for all I’m worth just to get the crank to turn. Then it makes that humming sound and then somehow the resistance is reduced slightly. I have no clue what is up and sent support to request to Elite. I’ve tried their software and tried Golden Cheetah and the issue still remains.
I’m curious if you had any issues like that or if you might know what’s up.
Thanks
Same here,
For some reason, when “idle” Elite have the Drivo set to “crazy high resistance”.
This has two implications, firstly as you say – if you need to adjust the rear mech, it is almost impossible to do so by turning the cranks with your hands – that i imagine would be possible if the “idle” resistance set the brake to it’s lowest setting / fully disengaged. Personally i think a super easy “idle” would be better.
Secondly, if you experience drop out of the signal in Erg-Mode or pause momentarily for some reason (pick up towel or change video you are watching) – it means you find that you have to pedal through treacle to get it going again.
I have found that Zwift and Trainer Road seem to behave a little differently in Erg mode. Zwift *seems* to come out on top when it comes to (what seems like) signal drop with the impact minimal. And when pausing momentarily Zwift copes brilliantly – whereas TR often gets into abandon/restart workout territory.
Overall, i am so far pleased though. I imagine some of these are things that can be ironed out with software fixes – and i have found Elite and TR to be responsive when it comes to support.
Thanks J for the reply. I’m glad I’m not the only on as I was thinking I got a dud for a unit. I just wish I can figure out how to turn that resistance off. I tried to create an erg program with low resistance but I think the minimum is 100 W, and that idea did not work out.
Hopefully, Elite replies with some words of wisdom because I’d love to get some workouts in without breaking something.
I trialled a Drivo on behalf of a shop. Conclusion was that as a power meter it was highly accurate, as a smart trainer its a piece of rubbish. Even using the Elite app, trying to get it to maintain smooth power in ERG mode was a nightmare. Let alone TrainerRoad.
Conversely, in the same room, same conditions KICKR and Neo absolutely fine.
Returned it to them with a clear “I wouldn’t sell this to a customer in a million years in its current form”.
Elite were not very helpful, iniitally the same old same old advice about interference, signals, smooth pedalling etc etc. In the end when I sent them sample runs of their unit vs KICKR they just said “Well thats just what it does”.
Not to mention that I’ve yet to find a single person who thought the colour and aesthetics were anything other than outright ugly.
My advice, get that return in quick !
Hi Lee
Thanks for the feedback with your experience. Honestly, I’m having trouble reconciling your experience with Ray’s review and I as of yet am just starting to feel out this thing since I only just got it. I only just saw your earlier post to Ray about your results. I hope it is a software/firmware update thing that fixes it. Perhaps you trialed an early version of the trainer.
I hope Ray or Elite weigh in on the issue to shed some more light. But I am disappointed so far. This was my first purchase ever as a result of reading Ray’s review and I even got it from Clever Training. I’ll give them a call to find out what can be done.
But honestly, I really like the built in power meter which is why I got it. I was originally going to get the Hammer but it is not out yet and the NEO is too expensive in my opinion. I chose the Drivo over the KICKR since it had that built-in meter and I could get it for the same price as the KICKR since there was a sale.
It would be great if more users/owners of the Drivo shared their view.
Its a baffler isn’t it, how Ray gets these pristine units with no issues, but then consumers get inundated with problems. I went through 3 Neo’s before I gave up.
What can I say ? I used Elite’s own app on my phone and went for a simple “2min@100, 2min@150, 2min@200” etc. It was shocking. Some of the wattage changes took forever to go through which immediately smacks of signal/interference. So I did it again, this time holding my phone behind me so it was right above the Drivo. Of course, when I use my phone to control a KICKR or Neo, it sits on my wahoo desk in front of me and trainer and has zero issues.
Maybe a faulty unit who knows ? But the stepper motor inside smacks of the turbo muin b+ thing which slid a magnet back and forth, a particularly naff way of adjusting resistance if you ask me.
As I said, the powermeter inside the Drivo is first class and always tracked perfectly well against my other PMs. So I have no doubt that its accurate, its biggest selling point. But the rest of the product, its control interface etc, nope.
I asked Elite repeatedly if updated firmware was available, never got an answer to that so I presume no (and surely the app would prompt you if there was).
The best I could get from Elite was “pedal at a consistent rate” (even though what I sent them shows an incredible constant cadence) and “those power jumps are perfectly normal and to be expected” even though they don’t occur on my KICKR. And bear in mind in all tests I was sending them the power outputs from my powertap pedals to make it a fair comparison, everyone knows a KICKR is artificially smoothed.
Still prefer the KICKR over the NEO, the Neo has a weird kinda “slip” in its virtual flywheel if you accelerate hard just like a tyre slipping on a conventional wheel-on trainer.
I eagerly await the Hammer as I’m hoping it’ll be “the one”. Powertap tech so should be accurate, mahoosive flywheel so should be smooth, decent case so should fit all my bikes, not white 1980’s star wars at-at styling, just remains to be seen how good their control interface is.
Lee-
Hmm, I’m not really sure why you keep saying I get pristine issues and others don’t. Plenty of others have no issues with trainers. And, as noted recently, I even got a loud-NEO this summer as well. That said, it’s a bit hard to reconcile an experience if Elite didn’t have a chance to troubleshoot or look at the hardware that’s causing issues.
Hany – I’d be interested in what Elite says. I’ll poke them and forward your info over to them to see and speed that up. Perhaps there’s logs they can pull (just like TrainerRoad can).
J – Note that TrainerRoad and Zwift don’t actually use the same modes, thus, why you see different experiences from stop. TR uses a true ERG mode, whereas Zwift is using a slope simulation. Hence why TR remains at a very hard to pedal resistance when you stop, because that ERG level is still applied. So if you leave it at 350w, it’ll be the same (the KICKR does the exact same thing).
Thanks Ray. I appreciate the help.
I’ve been getting more familiar with the unit and thankfully I am able to pedal it now although the issues I mentioned still remain. Still really hard to freely turn the pedals by hand and it still can be very hard to pedal. So perhaps it does relate to the idle resistance setting as J states.
But I was able to create and run an ERG file in Golden Cheetah and I was also able to use the Elite software. It is a nice unit as long as I can just figure out what state it is in when idle and how to basically turn off that brake.
As for Lee’s comments, I became concerned and tested my unit by having a simple erg file that was 4 repeats of 100W->150W and saw that the unit did work as expected. There is a lag and I roughly estimate it in the 3-5 sec range. And to be honest that neither surprises me nor bothers me. It would be great if it was faster. I think part of the fluctuations in power are very much due to the pedaling smoothness. Although the sensor is instant readout, the unit is not and it’s lag will allow you to go above or below the target power setting until it catches up.
The only conclusion I can draw then is that the unit sent to the shop as their demo unit was faulty. As you say Hany, a delay of 3 to 5 seconds is very different to what I had.
I have had the chance to do a few rides on the Drivo after upgrading from a Cycleops Powerbeam Pro. My set-up includes a 5 ft usb to ant+ cable that allows the ant+ sensor to be within 2 feet of the Drivo. Initial impressions:
– Much different experience on Zwift. Using the PBP I could feel the changes in grade but I could pretty much “big ring” the whole island. With the Drivo you can feel every little rise. I had to actually reduce the “trainer difficulty” setting on Zwift to reduce the harshness in transitions. On the Zwift mountain course I am using a 36 x 28 on the 14% sections and it’s not easy so I would say this is realistic. Power output from the trainer and my Stages are pretty comparable.
– In Zwift workout mode you can’t have your power meter and trainer paired at the same time if you want to use ERG mode. Once in ERG mode the Drivo does an “ok” job of adjusting the resistance. I did part of an SST workout today where the blocks were 5 min at 250, 5 min at 250, etc. The Drivo will not hold the power exactly at the target wattage but varies by approx. +/- 15w. You don’t really feel the fluctuations while pedaling and on average you will be pretty close to target. If you change cadence it will take a few (5-10) second for the Drivo to adjust back to target.
– TrainerRoad: I did part of the Ride Fit Fiesta workout today to see how the Drivo would adjust to the target wattage (see screen shot). For the first 213 watt tempo block I was using powermatch with the Stages. The average was right on but the wattage fluctuated quite a bit from target. Half way through the rest interval I turned powermatch off to see how the Drivo would do on it’s own. That’s the spike you see in the power. When you pause a workout in TR (or Zwift for that matter) to get going again you will need about 500w until the trainer adjusts back to “normal”. This is annoying since the target at that point was 166w. The fluctuations in power seem a bit less with powermatch turned off although the average wattage seems a bit on the hight side of the the target. Overall I can live with these “inaccuracies” although I was hoping for a lot better as far as holding to the target power.
– Elite App on iPhone: Using the “Power” mode set to 100w the actual wattage is ~120. Adjusting up to 150w does almost nothing for about 1 minute and then the unit will adjust to somewhere in the neighborhood of 150w with a lot of fluctuation. Pretty much worthless. Using the “Workout” mode I tried workout #2 for a short time which consist of 120w and 160w 5 minute blocks. Again the app took forever to adjust to target and I had no confidence I was actually at the target wattage since the app does not even display the target. Maybe there are settings to show this but it’s not very intuitive on the iPhone.
Hopefully we will see some improvements with firmware updates although I’m not even sure how you can check if the firmware is up to date.
Sorry, having trouble getting the screen shot to show up.
Kevin, your experience is pretty much the same as mine with the Elite app. When testing a new trainer I always try and use the vendor supplied software/apps to remove 3rd party variables; after all, if they can’t get it right, who can. Perhaps the conclusion here is that the elite app is at fault – “forever to adjust” is what I had, but I never had any obvious delays when using Zwift. Of course even saying that – the app will be on bluetooth and for me zwift on ANT…
Regarding your graph, it raises the question of “what is acceptable?” – certainly on my travels with friends, it seems that if you haven’t ever experienced how good it can be, you’re likely to accept whatever you’ve got. Ignorance is bliss :)
Elite told me that the spikes in power (on a constant effort segment) were normal and to be expected. My simple point is that I don’t get anywhere near that variation on my KICKR. So, it could be a lot better, and when a customer is parting with this kind of money, the experience should be “as good as it gets”.
Hi Lee, it’s not your unit that it’s faulty. Thanks to your notices we’ve found a bug in the fw. It happens only in particularly conditions: target power low but developed power higher (due to high speed) for some time and then the following step with small power increase. In this case, it takes a lot to change resistance.
It will be fixed soon with a fw upgrade.
Ray said > …. J – Note that TrainerRoad and Zwift don’t actually use the same modes, thus, why you see different experiences from stop. TR uses a true ERG mode, whereas Zwift is using a slope simulation. Hence why TR remains at a very hard to pedal resistance when you stop, because that ERG level is still applied. So if you leave it at 350w, it’ll be the same (the KICKR does the exact same thing).
Thanks for the response Ray, “true Erg” vs / “Slope simulation” certainly explains why Zwift and TR seem to behave subtly different.
Whilst some aspects of the Drivo as mentioned above are a little disappointing, certainly all of them can’t be blamed on Elite – and initial impressions are good. I also think it is safe to say that none of the new smart/interactive trainers are without there own particular “use bugs” or “quality bugs”, such as the occasional noisy Neo or bikes that don’t fit trainer X. So maintaining realistic expectations are the order of the day. My primary priority was dependable accuracy (my trainer bike will not have a power meter), and having done a few tests 100 watts, 150 watts, 200 watts, 250 watts all “feel” as they should (to the point that it is impressive) – other than the “OMG i am sweating hard” variety of extra effort.
As my first foray into Smart trainers, as someone who has only briefly used a friend’s dumb trainer (the reaction to the dumb trainer was “this is an awful experience”) – the answer to the question “Does a smart trainer make the experience bearable?”, the answer is a definite YES. Ergo training means you really don’t have to pay attention, and the distraction of TV shows/podcast/music and glancing at Zwift or TR certainly makes the time pass. But …. it is still an experience to bear and not the fun of the open road, but i have been surprised at how enthusiastic i have been to play with my new toy.
Hi Lee,
related to the “spikes” during the training with Drivo, we consider that as normal. In fact, the measurement system of the Drivo is very accurate, so it detects the various “level” of power developed by the rider, even the small difference of 10-20 Watts.
I understand that you’re referring to the chart that you see when using TR with Kickr but those data are not accurate as there is an heavy smooth.
In order to claim this, we’ve used a Kickr (fw version 1.4.46) and used 2 computers with TrainerRoad. One TrainerRoad connected to the Kickr and the other connected to the SRM power meter of the bike. Then we started the program contemporaneously, so the 2 TrainerRoad recorded exactly the same training data. This is the result:
Kickr:
SRM:
As you can see, even with Kickr there are a lot of spikes. Likely Kickr uses a bigger smooth on power data and this means not punctual data.
Yes, compared to Drivo, the spikes with Kickr are smaller (data of the SRM) but this is due to the smaller energy that Kickr flywheel can store (at 30km/h Drivo flywheel stores 1020J, while Kickr stores about 600J). In fact, with less energy, each pedal stroke gives produces smaller torque and thus smaller spikes.
In any case, in order to improve the Drivo (and considering your claims), we’ve decided to make a modification and let the user decides the level of smooth of the power measurement. The user will be able to set the quantity of smoothness from the app as he prefers. In this way, our users will the power data as they prefer. Actual or more smoothed.
In the meantime, you can use the “Power Smoothing” settings of TrainerRoad. This setting makes your data much smoother.
related to the previous post, this is the image with Kickr and SRM data for comparison.
Hi
that sounds a useful modification but I’m not sure you have understood me correctly.
On TrainerRoad I was NOT looking at the power graph recorded from the KICKR. I have stated numerous times that this is artificially smooth.
I performed two tests, one with the Drivo and another on my KICKR. In both tests I recorded the power from my Powertap P1 pedals. So in reality what I’m actually testing are the units speed to respond to power changes, how quickly they settle after a power change and how smooth the recorded power is for any set level.
I dislike the smoothing option in TrainerRoad as it introduces delays to resistance changes (or at least, it did when I last tested it – software is continually changing!), similarly I’ve found that the delays caused by using PowerMatch in the control loop can introduce bigger inaccuracies than a slightly “wrong” trainer.
As another point, the reason I’m very fussy about these differences is that I’m a Sufferfest user. Some of the sufferfest workouts are very dynamic in nature with a lot of resistance changes and small intervals and these can be made extremely more difficult if a trainer is overshooting resistance targets or not settling into the target power accurately.
I appreciate the feedback though, many thanks indeed :)
Kind Regards
Lee.
Hello, How/when/where will we be able to download this firmware update for the Drivo?
Lee, in my opinion is quite normal. In ERG mode the trainer try to hold the imposed value, and react to the force that you put on pedal.
I mean that if you force a little bit more on the pedal, the PM of the Drivo will record it (and display the value on the graph). Following this, the drivo react decreasing the brake (in order to bring your effort inside the imposed value).
It’s a normal fluctuation,
Perhaps you did not notive it on the kickr because it broadcast (via ANT+) the ERG imposed value and not the real effort that you put on the pedal….
notice, not notive.
Sorry for my english, is not my language
You did not read my comment correctly, sorry. I am using powertap p1 pedals in both cases to record the power. So the pedals will pick up every single slight change. The KICKR was able to maintain a much smoother power profile.
Boh. I never tried the Kickr. I have a powerbeam pro (and hopefully next weekend also a Drivo) and in ERG mode it has the same beahviour of the Drivo (per your description)….
…So, overcorrection of the feedback circuit?
Possibly. The Tacx Neo does something similar. It may simply be that using a KICKR with TrainerRoad is more refined
a) as the KICKR has been available for ages
b) The TrainerRoad staff all use KICKRs
I’m a TR guy, so for me, the trainer needs to work well with TR.
Any news on getting this bug fixed? thanks!
Just as a minor note on this. If using TR with the KICKR2, it’s actually faking what you see as power, so it’ll look crazy smooth, when in reality, it’s not. Check out my KICKR2 In-Depth review for more details on that, and how Wahoo is going to fix it.
Just noting for the purposes of comparing Apples to Apples.
In the update of the myEtraing (3.2) app it mentions;
EEPROM read and write funtions
Look like they are getting ready for a firmware update
Great to see some real world reviews being put forward and it appears Elite are on the case, which is great. I have not had chance to use the ERG mode as yet but rode the mountain route on Zwift over the weekend and was like night and day from my old set up. I did have a Stages so have ridden to power but was on a Cyclops Fluid. There is nowhere to hide on a smart trainer and the ride up to the radio mast with its 13% gradient was a little too real, in a good way though.
I am really happy with my Drivo experience to date, perhaps I may find it a little more frustrating once I decide on my winter training plan and start using the ERG function, time will tell.
Just waiting on Zwift sorting the Bluetooth issues out and I can make sure this functionality works properly.
Great to see Elite support in the comments, reassuring to see them active in the comments.
While they are around, i would like to suggest adding a “Mechanic Mode” to the iOS app.
(Assuming this function would be possible)
If you need to make adjustments to your rear mech alignment, it would be great if you could put the training into a mode (“Mechanic Mode”) on the iOS app, so that you could freely turn the pedals quickly with very little resistance to make adjustments (like you would on a workstand) to the front and rear mechs.
So, seems that Drivo has some serious issues in ERG mode. I really wonder how the hell Ray got in his TrainerRoad 30×30 repeats so nice perfect results as almost all others who have bought or tested the Drivo have much more variability. And I just yesterday ordered my Drivo ? , based on this review… should have read updated comments. Already regretting deeply, should have bought Kickr instead. Bloody hell 1300€+shipping is not a small money to spend.
What was the wattage difference on your 30×30’s? (i.e. what watt to what watt?)
(Also see note above from Elite on a specific case which is causing some folks problems on TR and ERG mode, for which they are releasing a firmware update: link to dcrainmaker.com)
Oh, and if you can post a screenshot, that’d be great.
I’m trying to do some proper ANT+ Trainerroad ERG mode testing this weekend and post some screenshot here too. Maybe my problems were caused by Bluetooth connection issues (hopefully).
Here’s some data from my ride tonight. “Steamboat” on Trainerroad (I did not have the legs for anything more challenging). This workout consists of 4 main intervals with rest periods in between. I connected Trainerroad to the Drivo via Ant+ FEC. I also had a Stages PM but did not use this (no powermatching). During the low power warm-up the Drivo was not adjusting to target but once I hit the 1st interval it adjusted quickly to the target. During rest periods the Drivo could not adjust low enough (104w) and was always ~10-20w above target. For each of the main intervals, however, the Drivo was within 1w of target on average and even during the small step downs the Drivo adjusted quickly with no lag. The precision (per Trainerroad) during these interval was between ~88-95%. I consider this to be pretty good. My cadence during each interval was very consistent. Hopefully the low power adjusting issue I was experiencing will be corrected with the firmware update Elite discussed above.
I took the plunge.
First ride today, and all seemed pretty good. I have powertap P1 pedals, and just eyeballing instant power, and average over a short ride, they were in agreement pretty much to within a watt, so that’s pretty encouraging so far.
Incredibly we are now a household with no PC which has a DVD drive, so I can’t install software off their DVD. I tried downloading from the site, but when I run it, it says its “probably the wrong version” and hangs up. I had a previous software version installed for the e-motion rollers which I’ve had for a couple of years. I did uninstall that.
So I don’t know whether the downloaded version only works as an update, or there is some “echo” of the previous version on there confusing it.
Anyone else had this problem?
Well I have answered my own question.
Turns out the Elite uninstall process isn’t 100% and leaves some entries in the Windows Registry. I went in and removed the Elite folder in the registry, then tried installing again, and it ran successfully.
Hi hhbiker,
the installation checks the compatibility with the installed software and in case of different type of trainer it blocks the installation. This check has been implemented as many users downloaded and installed the wrong version of software. In this way we prevent many users from installing the wrong version of the sw.
Related to uninstallation. The installation process has been modified a couple of years ago to fix this problem. Now it prompts for a complete uninstallation that removes everything related to the Real software.
OK, many thanks for following up.
My experience was that I received a warning, but it did not prompt me to uninstall the old version. However I guessed that might be needed, so I did uninstall the old version. When I went through the uninstall process it asked whether I wanted to do a “full” uninstall which deletes all the data, and I said No. That wasn’t good enough, because the new version would still not install. However now there was no way repeat the uninstall. So I had to manually find and remove the data files. Even that wasn’t enough – I then had to manually edit the Windows Registry to remove the registry entries.
So a suggestion for the future would be to embed an option in the new software which prompts to remove all the old software.
Thanks again.
Hy Kevin! My current main observations and conclusions about Drivo are the same as yours. My setup: Drivo connected to Trainerroad as ANT+FEC, signal strength excellent (No powermatching). Power2max powermeter on the bike connected to Garmin 800. On the positive side – Drivo’s powermeter seems to be really accurate and by eyeballing Garmin 3sec average power vs Trainerroad displayed power they seem to be very consistent.
Negative side: As you say, Drivo basically can’t adjust power on lower power levels around 100W and below. Also while Drivo outputs excellently accurate power values to Trainerroad (so you get your real workload stored) the adjusting of the power level when cadence or Trainerroad power targets are changing takes some time. When starting an intervall it takes Drivo at least around 1 minute to stabilize. I think on longer intervals, e.g. over 10 minutes it’s not a problem at all. I actually think that this relatively slow power adjustment results in quite realistic “road feeling” so doing long steady intervals or ride simulations with Drivo should be nice and I guess mean power values will be accurate. But in my current experience with Drivo it’s quite useless with short, realitvely low power intrevals around 200W – for example 30 sec or 1-2 minute intervals. I guess that for such kind of workouts I will still use my KurtKinetic Roadmachine. Below quite ugly picture of my such 30 sec testintervals. Not sure what about high sprint intervals with Drivo – haven’t had time to test this yet.
Drivo vs Hammer, the price and accessibility to them not being an issue. What one would you lean towards?
Tough to say. Hammer won’t make my trainer recommendations list for high-end trainers tomorrow, for the simple fact that I think it’s going to be quite some time until we see it. My bet is we won’t see it till December.
It may be a great trainer, and certainly the odds look that way. But alas, it’s had a complete internal overhaul since the last time I tested it some 5 months ago, so I just don’t have a solid grasp on what the production models will look like.
Okay, now that the Hammer is out. Hammer or Drivo for Zwift? Would be doing Workout Mode with things like Sweet Spot intervals and also things like 2min@450W as well as maybe the Zwift races. Does either one have an edge or deficiency for the Workout Mode?
Also, what do you think would be the best way to do Tabatas on either of these? It’s not a specific power, so I was thinking just use a stretch of gradually climbing road in Zwift, just like I would in real life. I can hit about 1200W in the first few reps of a Tabata, any issue with that on either of these?
Bought the Drivo… and now I’m trying to set it up. While it connects to my Mac with the Ant+, it seems to drop in and out. Ray – and others – have you had any difficulty with this? Is it perhaps the ant+ adapter that connector that comes with the Drivo? On TrainerRoad it connects, the but the signal strength constantly varies between Excellent-Good-Poor. More importantly, it only seems to maintain a connection for a brief period after first connecting to TrainerRoad and when actually mid-ride, though it has dropped off multiple times mid-ride as well.
Thanks and any help you can provide is appreciated!
How far away is the ANT+ adapter from the Drivo? And is there anything else that might be nearby that could interfere (WiFi access point, wireless phone)?
Thanks for responding!
About five feet away from the trainer. As for interfering devices, the only thing would be Wi-fi. Everythign else is turned off specifically to avoid this. I even deleted my Garmin Edge 850 from my cadence sensor and heart rate monitor just to be sure nothing else gets in the way.
Had no issues with ANT+ connection, I am however using a Garmin adaptor which I purchased last year when I started on Zwift. It is plugged into a USB extension lead and about 3ft away from the DRIVO. Not tried the Elite one it came with.
As I train in the garage off the side of the house I have my Mac connected via an ethernet to lighting adaptor to a Devolo plug in range extender. I then create a wifi hotspot from my Mac to connect my iPhone/iPad to so I can use the zwift app on the same network along with Spotify for some tunes. No interference issue
Thanks, Paul. I’ll get the Garmin USB device ordered and an extension cable and report back. I don’t know that I have an ethernet cable long enough to make a wi-fi hotspot, so you’ve out-teched me there.
The one worry I have is the diffrences between Zwift and TrainerRoad. It seems like Zwift and Elite have worked closely together. TrainerRoad is barely mentioned on Elite’s website, but Zwift is clearly mentioned, so maybe that’s part of the issue?
Ha, ha, I am a luddite when it comes to IT, just did a lot of reading and trial and error last year getting the strongest internet connection and ANT+ connection I could out in my garage. It appears the Zwift ANT connection issues have been ironed out since last winter as so far so good. Waiting on the Bluetooth connection issues to be ironed out. You are right all the manufacturers look to have worked to be on board with Zwift as like me there are lots of new customers out there to be tapped into who have signed up to virtual training.
I have used the Sufferfest videos in the past and found them to be good and might have a little go with the 7 day trial to see how well they interact with the DRIVO but as Zwift works so well for me will likely delve into the training programmes for my winter training.
Just to close up the loop: I got a new USB ANT+ dongle, it worked a lot better. Ironically, it is literally identical to the first. So, I think I just got a bum unit. Just did testing on TrainerRoad and I could not be happier with how the resistance operated.
I got the Elite Drivo this week and after finally get my Cassette I was able to test the Drivo last night. Before I get into the Drivo I have to say, compared to my cousins KICKR2; the Drivo is a bit more quieter on the drive train side as well as the trainer itself. My cousins bike is a fairly new Specialized Tarmac with Dura Ace Di2 components with around 1200 miles on it. We also mounted my year old FELT Z75 Disc with 105 and had an issue with the rear caliper hitting the handle on the side of the KICKR2 so I had to unbolt the caliper to mount my bike. I was very surprised how loud the KICKR2 was compared to my Drivo, it almost sounds like it’s going to take off the faster you spin in the saddle. Both bikes had noisy a drive train on the KICKR2…
I also noticed the Drivo was a bit smoother when pedaling, could be me picking apart the KICKR2 so my cousin is going to come over with his KICKR2 on weekend so we can compare the 2 trainers. He might return the KICKR2 since his only had it for 2 weeks, he already hates the spin down process you have to do every ride and he isn’t very fond of the noise it makes.
I’m pretty happy with the Elite Drivo so far. I was able to complete my weekly FTP with good confidence and feeling. But I will say compared to my Elite Qubo Smart+ it’s a lot harder to gauge when to apply more or less power when going from 135w, 410w back down to 135w. I’m so used to the feeling on the Elite Qubo, there’s always resistance when spinning from low to high gears, where as with the Drivo it’s like riding a bike outside where you get free wheel spin from applying a lot of power and then backing off. Something I have to get used :p
Now the bad stuff. I did have some weird issues with Zwift not picking up my pedaling; Watts stayed at 0 and my virtual rider in the sim wouldn’t move. Once I changed the sensor from ANT+ to FE-C for power meter and smart trainer, then things started to work as should. For some reason when looking at the sensors, I noticed the Drivo lists 3 different sensor types for the same thing, but the names are a little different for each listing like with the Power Meter sensor (Elite Real Trainer FE-C, Elite Real Trainer ANT+, Elite Power Meter). I was able to mount my FELT without having to remove my rear caliper. I don’t like that the Drivo is white because all the chain grease gets on the trainer and makes it look bad. Maybe I need more practice mounting to a direct drive trainer… I also think Elite could do a better job with the instructions on how to install the cassette and also where to place the axle pieces, a diagram with step by step instructions would of been nice. All you have is a schematic in the back with parts a diagram, not very helpful at all…
I’ll add more comments in the future once I get more acquainted with the Drivo :)
100% agreed that the setup instructions are very bad. I still have a few parts left over and I don’t know if I did it all wrong or what might have happened. Maybe someone could do a setup video somewhere? I searched all over and couldn’t find anything.
You raise a good point which I found and mentioned to the shop I was testing it for……the instructions are crap, and if you fit just the road adapter you can get your skewer done up tight, but its not gripping the frame at all – you need the very thick washer as well. Potential for someone jumping on and falling over, cracking their frame I think.
Lee: Could you clarify on that a bit more? I think I may have left the washer off. Not sure what is supposed to go in what order. I will plead idiocy mechanically on this, but I want to be sure I am not risking damage to my frame.
I know exactly what Lee is talking about. Luckily I have a bit of experience with my old trainer when things aren’t solid what can happen. In fact when we mounted my FELT to my cousins KICKR2, we didn’t realize my rear caliper was resting on the trainer so my bike wasn’t snug, I jumped on to start a ride and almost fell off…
Depending on if your bike is 130mm or 135mm in the rear. you’ll need to use that thick washer I circled in DC’s pic if your bike is 135mm. Took my a little to figure that out, again I can’t stress how much Elite needs to come up with a step by step diagram on how to mount your bike correctly. If I didn’t know better and just jumped on without the washer I would of fallen off my bike!!!
Anthony: I just realized I didn’t make it clear enough for the washer instructions. Take that washer and slide it over the samller nipple piece to the left in that pic. You’ll notice how much better your bike tightens up if it’s 135mm in the rear.
Is the 130-135mm a reference to the width of the frame at the axle?
Yes, the gap is in between where the axle goes, I included a pic that will take all the guess work out ;)
I’m also a noob when it comes to bicycles, I’m learning my self since I just got into road biking for now 1 year. But I love working on cars so I kind of can relate to the mechanics part. Only thing that scares me is when messing with the derailleurs, which can be such a cumbersome process…
Thank you! Helps quite a bit!
While I totally agree the instructions are confusing and poor for the Kura/Drivo, I would point out there actually is text for each step…it’s just totally in the wrong part of the booklet.
The first few pages of the booklet are the little diagrams, which we’re all familiar with. The problem is, the corresponding text for those steps is split up by language, and most of us don’t bother to then look in the right section for it.
(I only know this from recently trying to figure it out again on the Kura myself…)
UPDATE: I was able test out my Drivo a little more over the week. I was a using a Amazon Basics 3f USB extension cable with my ANT+ sensor pointing toward my trainer from the table I have my laptop sitting on, there’s probably a distance of 6 to 7 feet between the ANT+ sensor and the Drivo. When using that cable my Watts would fluctuate quite a bit and sometimes I would get drop outs so I would have to move the cable a little more over.
I bought a new 15f cable with a repeater from Amazon for $11 and I couldn’t be happier with the results. My Watts aren’t fluctuating know where near as much and no more drop outs :) This made a huge improvement with simulating downgrades and upgrades. I still have a BIG grin on my face with how well this trainer works with resistance on hilly terrain in Zwift.
Forgot to add link to the 15f Cable and I also attached another pic so you can kind of gauge the distance of my workstation table to where my trainer sits
Hey DC, were you able to test the ERG mode on the Drivo? Had some issues last night and sent this to Elite’s support this morning:
I tested the ERG mode on my new Elite Drivo last night and I had some issues where the resistance wasn’t working correctly on my FTP training in Zwift. For some reason in the middle of my ride the Drivo would turn up the resistance to it’s maximum when going from 135w to 220w and vice versa. I would have to stop peddling for the ERG mode to disable before I could turn the cranks again. This was very discouraging since I’ve used the Drivo in non-ERG mode and the resistance worked flawlessly when riding Utopia hills with downgrades and upgrades
I’m using the Drivo with ANT+ FE-C with a 15f repeater USB cable, the ANT+ sensor is sitting right next to the Drivo. I haven’t had any other issues with the Drivo. Would like to open a support ticket to see if this issue can be resolved.
When ERG mode was working correctly, it was awesome since I could concentrate more on my FTP training and not have to worry about changing gears and keeping my watts at the correct level.
I’m attaching a link to my Strava analysis from last night, you can see in the cadence section where it drops to 0, that’s when the trainer was turning up the resistance to max:
I tried ERG mode within TrainerRoad and also from FE-C on a Garmin head unit (No issues for me). For Zwift, I was using the non-workout mode, so that’s not ERG mode. I haven’t tried Zwift in workout mode with the Drivo.
There is text, but it’s confusing (or maybe just poorly translated to english). Struggling a bit setting mine up this morning.
Just had a thought …
I wonder what impact the TR “Powermatch” function has on the smoothness of the recorded power by trainerroad? How did you have TR set up Ray?
From reading the link below, it seems disabling powermatch impacts the smoothness?
I noticed that my TR setting are set to “use power meter to control trainer” – in Trainer Road “Devices” Power Meter and Controllable Trainer is set to Drivo.
I have disabled powermatch and will see tomorrow what impact it has over recorded power graph.
link where Power Match off is smoother.
link to support.trainerroad.com
I don’t consider there a “better” setting, as the training benefits are the same – just with cleaner/less clean recorded graphs (i think?)
J,
Powermatch has little to no effect on a constant effort interval, provided that you maintain a smooth steady cadence. However in my experience Powermatch has never made things better, only worse, both from a smoothness and “speed of resistance change” concept. Its not hard to see why, under normal circumstances TR just needs to send an ERG wattage to the trainer and then the trainer has to do all the work in matching that, and just sends back its power figures every . As soon as you introduce powermatch you’ve got a 3 way chat where your external PM reports to TR, that compares to what your trainer is showing, TR makes a subtle change on your trainer, then the loop continues. To be frank, unless your trainer reported power is a long way off from your external PM, Powermatch is to be avoided, certainly I’ve never seen it make a workout more accurate, only less.
In terms of graph smoothing, with PowerMatch enabled, TR is recording the power from your external PM. This will be “real world” and spikey in nature. If smooth graphs are your desire, then something which artificially smooths the output (KICKR) is the way to go.
In my testing, I was not using Power Match.
Thanks,
Thought it was worth mentioning, as i just noticed that Trainer Road (on OSX) defaults to powermatch, and i was not sure the correct setting. Reading TR’s documentation about powermatch suggested that “Drivo as PM device & Drivo as Controllable trainer” might bring issues.
I am not interested in artificially smoothed graphs, and in Resistance Mode (and on the Road) i can pretty easily maintain +/-5% on a 1 second Av display.
I was suspicious that, like you mention, powermatch might introduce some form of crosstalk that might interfere with optimal operation, and might explain some of the inaccuracies experienced by some ITT.
Will do an Ergo Session tonight, as see if behaviour improves. I have also a 5 meter repeater (and claimed signal boosting) active USB cable.
I’m currious, can you recall if while you were doing your tests of this trainer with the covers off did you notice if it was any more quiet than with the covers on? I would think the plastic covers would add some level of rumble to the machine.
No, I didn’t do it with it off unfortunately.
Hi at the moment in the UK I can get the new KICKR £880, DRIVO £968, NEO £1056.
At the price difference is it a no brainer to go for the NEO?
thanks
PS HAMMER is also £1056
What’s the pound worth these days? That’s like the difference of $5USD,right? ;)
Yeah, I’d personally go NEO, but that’s just me.
£1 – USD1.2
Rubbish at the moment TBH, Brexit!! :(
That said these prices are with a 12% discount on the website
Its going to be a permanent set up, not bikes in and out. They all look like they tick the boxes, but for probably 3 sessions per week for 4-5 months I can justify the spend. Learned early on that you should always go for the best you can afford. If you are serious about training you wont regret it in the long run when put against the time spent sweating.
Ray if silence and road patterns simulation is not something i’m interested in do you that drivo still miss something compared to the NEO ?
i’will only use most famous training software such as trainerroad, zwift, bestbike split and kinomap.
my trusted bike shop only sell lemond and elite product..not tacx.
i’ve excluded kickr cause i don’t want something that requires calibration.
If you don’t care about noise/patterns, then for all the major apps you’re covered with the Drivo, and it’s a very solid trainer on accuracy.
Plus, unlike the Neo you don’t have to worry about QA issues coming off the assembly line.
and, last question, for your experience Elite software support (fw, updates…) is a valid as the TACX one?
They’re about the same. Neither company produces all that many software updates (that’s neither good or bad, just is what it is).
Elite commented that the huge complexity of the Neo virtual fly wheel, with a hugely increased number of possible things to go wrong is a big factors on their choice to stick with a big, heavy fly wheel.
Neo is an amazing bit of kit, but what is the longevity? Have you, Ray, experienced only the QA (off the assembly line) issues?
Yes for QA issues on NEO. I managed to get a unit this summer that has metal bits inside it, as have other readers as recently as last week. I fail to understand why it’s still occuring.
In general, if you get the unit and it sounds funky on Day 1, just return it. Some folks have seen it quiet after the first ride, but I wouldn’t risk it. All issues related are purely noise, and don’t impact functionality. But of course, the reason you’re paying extra is noise reduction.
I’ve heard of no longer-life issues on NEO though, so assuming you make it through Day 1, you’re golden.
Thanks for the prompt reply, Ray! I’ll wait for your (in-depth) reviews of other trainers (Flux,Neo, Hammer,etc.) and then pull the trigger. BTW, the Zwiftcast #9 was excellent!
Does Elite include a steel skewer with the trainer? I couldn’t see one listed in the unboxing and setup section.
Cheers.
No, according to the reviews they do not include a skewer. They include Ant+ stick though…
Why do we need a steel skewer? Can’t we just use the one that’s on the bike?
You could indeed take the one off your rear wheel then fit it to the Drivo. Then you can reverse the process when you then want to ride your bike on the road OR Elite could have just included a skewer like it does with the cheaper Rampa so you don’t have to stuff around every time you want to jump on the trainer.
Comes across as a penny-pinching move on a top of the range product….
It is a bit odd not to include one. On the bright side, they are cheap: link to amzn.to
(Do ensure you get a trainer skewer, and not just a regular skewer)
“(Do ensure you get a trainer skewer, and not just a regular skewer)”
Can you be more explicit, please? Why? What is the difference between them?
Thanks again!
“(Do ensure you get a trainer skewer, and not just a regular skewer)”
Definitely you need a trainer skewer if you have a non direct drive trainer… but on direct drive trainer, I don’t understand what should be wrong using the normal skewer…
Anyone?
Thanks…
Any rear wheel skewer will work just fine. I’m not sure why Ray was recommending a trainer skewer since they are meant for rear wheel drive trainers. Maybe he was recommending one because they are typically made of steel and theoretically stronger than a standard skewer and/or just to free up your “regular” skewer for use in non-trainer rides?
Nope, just brainfart on which comment thread I was responding to. True, for Drivo, a non-trainer one is just fine.
(Though, in many cases you’ll find the trainer skews are pretty generic and often cheaper anyway).
Hi!
Thanks for the good review.
Do we need a front wheel support with this trainer? I see it is not included…
Thanks
You don’t technically need one, though my personal preference is to ride with one simply to keep the front wheel nice and straight.
For the company not to include the items needed to get started using the equipment is bad. Few people would have the skewer needed to fit the trainer. I’ve seen LLAMA use a phone book under the front wheel, WTF? And if you are a Campagnolo fan boy like me you got pay an extra $70 US for the free hub body on this trainer. Add it all up and why wouldn’t I choose a NEO instead? Elite, nevermind, I won’t say it.
FWIW, the cog spacing on 11 speed cassettes (shimano and campagnolo) is the same. You can buy a cheap Ultegra 6800 cassetts (probably $25 – $30 from probikekit or ribble) and use it with the rest of the campagnolo drive train with no issues. Also, if you are training in erg mode, you will rarely (if not never) need to shift. I use the Kickr with an 11 speed ultegra cassette with a campagnolo drive train on TR and Zwift with no issues. So, save your money, get a cheap ultegra 6800 cassette and you will be good to go.
Or even a 105 5800 11 speed cassette at half the price of ultegra
Thanks Bikegeek. That is good info but I’m afraid I didn’t get it in time. I dropped the coin on a NEO last weekend and a Campy Centaur 10 spd cassette. I wanted a 30T cog for the climbs. I already own TTS4 so the NEO was the best choice for me I suppose. I didn’t think about Shimano and Campy compatibility but I have recently looked into it and wish I would have known sooner. The cassette I bought was $160 US which is damn overkill when one thinks about being raped. Honestly I don’t know why I stick with Campagnolo. Thanks for your help though.
Guess i will provide google with some useful answers.
Will the Elite Drivo work with a medium cage rear derailleur? (Neo has issue)
Yes (for Shimano it has clearance, only a couple of mm space at rear/lower pulley so can’t confirm SRAM)
Does the Elite Drivo have clearance for disc brake calipers?
Yes. Post Mount / Chainstay Disc Capilers have plenty of clearance
(unlike Neo where caliper often has to be removed)
Hi Ray.
What Elite turbos does the “MyETraining” app pedal stroke analysis work on? and have you tried it with any other smart turbos?
Received the Drivo, but bluetooth is not working – when power up, the middle led is not blinking at all… Did this happens to any of you, guys? And when pedaling seems to be very hard, even if using small ring and big sproket… Feeling perplexed… :(
@RazvanC Make sure your Bluetooth device is already searching before turning on the Drivo. Also what worked for me is being in Zwift already and then powering on the Drivo, Zwift picked it up right away. I don’t use BT with my setup, but with playing around I noticed those things worked. I prefer the Ant+ sensor with a 15ft cable velcroed to the Drivo:
link to amazon.com
Also the Drivo is very hard to pedal when it’s not connected to Zwift. Once you set up your ride and hop on, it’ll release the resistance and you’ll be able to pedal with ease. I can turn the pedals by hand with a bit of force, but when it’s on the low cog it is pretty hard to turn so I try to remember to leave the chain on the big cog after finishing a ride, which I’ve been told also helps preserve your rear derailleur when not in use.
I’m extremely happy with my Drivo so far, BIG upgrade to my old Elite Qubo Smart+ trainer as it should with a $1000 difference :p
@M&Ms, thanks for your answer…I think the problem is my Drivo do not search on bluetooth (this should normaly do when power up.. searching both protocolos: bluetooth and ANT+ and when pair first, disable searching on the other…) Mine is searching only on ANT+ (only the green led in blinking)… :(
My trainer always blinks all 3 lights when first powering on. BT only blinks for a little bit, but that’s most likely because I have Ant+ enabled and that lights stop blinking once it connects to the Ant+ sensor and stays lit red for Ant+ and Green for power.
Try downloading the myETraining app from the Playstore or Apple Store and troubleshoot with their app. Otherwise contact Elite’s support.
I have the same problem, however the Bluetooth feature is working as the drivo will connect to the trainerroad app on my ipad. take the little side panel off the trainer, the one with the sticker on, I bet like me you will find that the middle blue LED is missing:( . thought it was just my trainer, hmmm…..
Thanks for your comments, M&Ms!
By the big cog, you mean the smallest one (16t or 17t) , right? I leave the chain on the smallest one to preserve a RR when not in use.
LED missing? OMG! I wasn’t be able to pair it using Myetraining application on phone or ipad… In the app, I can see Trainer, Speed and Cadence Sensor, Power – but when pedaling shows no activity on the aplication, like it it not paired… :( And the green LED still blinking (searching) – this means the Bluetooth is not paired… So, in my case I think it is more than a missing LED… Waiting for a reply from Elite support…
Very odd your having issues with the BT. And scary for IJH to say they had to remove a panel to see if BT light is blinking. Sounds like you may of gotten a test unit?
Hopefully Elite Support will come to the rescue. Elite has such potential to be great with the Drivo, but they really lack in the support department. I can’t even find a soft copy of the Drivo manual on their website. Maybe you can do a factory reset on the trainer, look and see if has that in the manual. Would be awesome to have it in PDF format so you can search for key words when troubleshooting.
I’ve only had one hiccup so far with EGR mode not working correctly, but it hasn’t happened again so maybe it was just the one off.
RazvanC, keep us all informed on what happens with support. Good Luck!!!
Nothing about factory reset in the manual, and neither about firmare updates…
Yes, I will keep you updated.
Thanks
I contacted Elite over the issue of high resistance and it is simply a matter of waiting for that hum it makes to finish. Also their app does not pair or connect to the drivo until you press the start button.
When you first plug it in, you should just care about seeing blinking lights and some humming tones and wait until that stops. Without connecting it to anything, you should be able to pedal with your feet. It will be hard at first because of the flywheel but then it will be easier.
Once you are pedaling then connect with the app and you will be just fine.
If you are pedaling and should decide to stop for some reason, depending on your current speed and if you are in erg mode, it can be hard to restart because the resistance will depend on the speed. If you want to restart without the high resistance, you need to wait 10 seconds before pedaling again or basically wait until you hear a humming sound again. It will reset to a lower resistance after 10 seconds.
Hello again,
I was satisfied with Elite support; I gave them all the details and they decided that the trainer is faulty and offer a replacement, so I received a new trainer with no issue as far as I know :)
Just I don’t know how or if is there any chance to make adjustments on rear derailleur as it is very difficult to spin with the hand…
Any ideea?
Thanks
I have two questions, very grateful for any input:
Is there a way to see pedal power balance on a Garmin head unit (820)? I love the accurate power meter on this thing, and I assume it understands balance because they offer pedalling dynamics in the myetraining app.
On a related point, I have a subscription set up in the app, but it still asks me to pay for pedaling dynamics, so I haven’t actually looked at that bit yet. Ray’s review of the app in the training app roundup (great roundup by the way) implied it is free, but when I contacted Elite, they told me this piece is the only bit *not* included in the subscription.
hi there,
thanks ray for the review and to all the the contributors to this thread, very helpful. i have just taken delivery of my new drivo trainer but i am experiencing a little difficulty mounting a shimano ultegra 11 speed cassette in that the sprockets are still slightly loose when the lock nut is tightenened up. my question is, do i need to use any of the two supplied spacers with the 11 speed cassette?, as my understandig was that :-
11 speed = 0 spacers
10 speed = 1 spacer
9 speed = 2 spacers
any advice would be much apreciated. thanks
I used 2 of the rings they came with the Drivo and used all of the spacers that came with my Shimano 105 11spd and everything is nice and tight for me.
11v = 0 spacer SURE
10v= 2 spacer SURE
9=1 spacer ?
Not sure what your point is. Mine is:-
11 speed = zero spacer
10 speed = one spacer
9 speed = two spacers
Thanks m&ms for your reply. Your answer begs two questions:-
1) Do you need to adjust your rear derailleur much from your bike setting if using the spacers for 11 speed cassettes?
2) if spacers are required for all speed cassettes, why does elite include them and not just produce a freehub that does not require any?
The spacer thing is annoying and confusing, especially as in the manual (often a pretty bad translation) they say for 10/9 speed use the spacers, then in the very next bullet section repeat themselves and use spacer – but i think they have just not pluralised spacer in the second instance.
having checked measurements – each spacer is 1mm.
Shimano’s own specification to convert an 11 speed hub to 10 speed is to use a 1.85mm spacer – but many cheap 11->10 speed spacers are actually 2mm. Elite’s choice to go with 2 x 1mm spacers does confuse things – Especially considering the following.
A ten speed hub, is actually a nine speed hub – the early 10 speed cassettes actually came with a(nother) spacer (1mm) – this is referenced in the Tacx Neo manual – as some 10 speed cassettes have (what Tacx call) a “pocket” on the rear. So if your 10 speed cassette has a “pocket” you would use the Shimano (supplied with cassette) original 1mm spacer + the EDCO 2mm spacer (provided with the Neo), and if your 10 speed cassette doesn’t have a “pocket” (such as the SRAM 1030) you just use the 2mm EDCO spacer. The instructions are different for Campagnolo, and i have put a link to the Neo Cassette instructions at the bottom of this post.
So basically for the Drivo, Elite supplied 2 x 1mm spacers.
This means:
11 speed Shimano. No spacers.
10 speed Shimano (no pocket). Both 2 x 1mm Elite spacers.
10 speed Shimano (with pocket). Both 2 x 1mm Elite spacers + 1mm Shimano cassette spacer.
9 speed Shimano. Both 2 x 1mm Elite spacers.
Hope that has cleared it up. Perhaps not. Personally i use a 1.85mm Shimano spacer just to be difficult (and because i use one on the wheelset – and it *might* make a difference to indexing … only in my head possibly).
Tacx cassette mounting instructions link to bit.ly
hi j,
thank you for your comprehensive answer, just what I was looking for! it confirms my train of thought of 11 speed cassette requiring zero spacers. now I need to fathom out why my cassette won’t tighten up correctly……
>fathom out why my cassette won’t tighten up correctly……
one of your cogs will not be quite seated properly. it is a tight fit, and one (most likely one of the smaller two) will not be quite seated properly. It can be difficult to see eyeballing it – especially as (unlike a wheel where you can go thread down from above) mounting in on a trainer you are threading them on from the side.
The other issue (also made more difficult by “side-threading” of a direct drive trainer) is that the lockring can be difficult to catch the threads and has to be absolutely flat.
It can (and was for me) a little frustrating, but taking off / remounting the last couple of cogs, being sure they are seated fully, and patiently trying to catch the thread with the locking flat will work eventually.
well… got my new drivo today and got testing, my initial thoughts? well its going straight back to the shop. I found that working with tacx tts4 and running a Mallorca rlv to be fair, it was quite acceptable, in fact quite realistic in that I have personally rode the same route, and the power changes were on a par with my tacx trainer I use with tts. so far so good, but using trainerroad in ergo mode well this thing just sucks. I experienced exactly the same results as lee, the thing is all over the place. now the main purpose of buying this unit is to do ergo training on trainerroad as I have been doing the last three years or so. during this period I have been using a cycleops powerbeam pro and this tracks and adjusts to the ergo power profile smoothly, no spikes or troughs. my only issue with the powerbeam is that it takes approx. 10 – 15 seconds to adjust to the wattage changes which is no big deal with longer intervals but not so good using the sufferfest videos. I was hoping this trainer might improve things there but sadly not, so back to the powerbeam until the Cyclops hammer or magnus trainers become available.
Bummer, have you reached out to TrainerRoad to see if they have any further details?
Also – how far away is your trainer from the ANT+ stick? That long of adjustment is crazy long, and almost implies something is retrying a command over and over again. TrainerRoad can pull up the log session from that particular workout and give more details.
The unit I tested had similar ERG mode issues. Despite trying to hold a fixed cadence/power it consistently changed resistance when not necessary, forcing me far outside the values I was trying to hold. Power would be on a constant rise and fall from target as it over-compensated in both directions. I would go from 200w @ 100rpm to 220w @ 95rpm then down to 180w @ 120rpm. Rinse and repeat every few minutes – not fun.
I believe the Drivo is responding too quickly to changes in power, with no regard for cadence and flywheel speed (a smoothed value which would indicate no need to change resistance). Other trainers such as the Kickr and Neo have managed to keep me at a fixed cadence without issue. If you can hold power +/-10w with no leg bias or injury I suspect the Drivo will be happy.
It was a great trainer in all other areas. A firmware fix could solve the ERG issues.
Did you open a ticket at Elite or TrainerRoad? What did they said?
I have an open ticket with them for the same issue. I told them to look at this blog since I’m not the only one having this issue with ERG mode. This was the response I received yesterday:
Hi Mark
Please do a training in ERG mode.
Do 4-5 segments with different power for any of them (1′ at 150W, 2′ at 250W, 1′ at 200W…). Then send me a graph with the results (Strava is ok).
Regards
Elite srl
In my previous email I was told it wasn’t an ERG training and that it was a slope training, which made no sense to me, since in Zwift you have the option to turn the ERG mode on or off before creating your training ride… Also in FTP training mode, I notice the trainer doesn’t respond to climbs and descents which makes sense.
I think I’m going to record my session the next time I test and send it to them, a video speaks 1000 words compared to just sending them analysis results from a ride…
Hi Ray,
Does drivo can by use wth mac ?
Drivo or Wahoo, which one is the best in class?
Regards,
Yves
I use the Drivo on my old 17″ MacBook Pro with Zwift and an Ant+ sensor, I haven’t used it with the Elite training software that came with the Drivo.
The Elite Software (DVD’s) that came with the Drive is for Windows.
I’ve read that some people have it working under Parallels Desktop or VMware Fusion.
Neo noise solution
link to dl.dropboxusercontent.com
neo price :( and frame fitting looks like is my problem but checks today
link to wwwstatic3.tacx.com
link to wwwstatic3.tacx.com
my problem is Neo vs Drivo
follow the Ray …. and go for Neo
winter is coming …. :)
regards Dariusz
Question to all Drivo owners out there!
Have you had problems with the trainer not being stable because of the rear legs are slightly bent??
I bought a Drivo from Mantel a while ago. I struggled with setting it up since the instructions were the worst I’ve ever seen! Once set up and the bike was mounted i took it for a spin but it did not feel that stable. The floor where the trainer was standing is really old and flexy /squeaky so i moved it in to my living room without any success. I checked it from all angles and noticed that only one pad on the rear leg was in contact with the floor, hence standing on three legs. I contacted mantel and they asked me to send it back and were extremely quick when it came to sending a new as soon as they received mine, thumbs up! Now I’ve un-boxed the new one and before actually installing it i checked if it was stable. Guess what, it’s not! I’ve checked that the risers are on the same high and tested on different floors.
As I see it there are 3 possible scenarios:
1. they sent me my old one back!
2. I received a new with the exact same issue
3. As design???
So this is why i’m asking,Any one else have this issue. Maybe someone post an picture of their trainer standing on the floor?
Hi Fedrik,
Also bought mine from Mantel but it doesn’t look like that at all.
See the picture, it’s taken in the garage, a bit dark but you can see that it’s flat on the ground.
It does move a bit around @1000W, see the following video.
link to youtube.com
Also an unboxing video, maybe that helps out?
link to youtube.com
Good luck,
Stefan
Spoke to mantel and sent them the new pictures and they told me to send this one back as well.. Third time is a charm they say, or?
Thanks for the links!!
I am very disappointed to learn that the e-training app does not support slope mode training and the PC software does not support bluetooth heart rate sensors.
Can someone either confirm i am correct or explain to me the workaround for either of these cases. I typically like to use slope more for most of my base training and zone 2 days and use a bluetooth HR sensor.
If by slope mode you mean the trainer reacts to the gradient shown on the route in the app, it it certainly works on an ipad and works very well being much more realistic than my old Qubo digital.
Don’t know about PC as my laptop is too old to run Elite Real software ( which is a pain because as far as I understand all firmware updates will be through the Real software . I have asked Elite for a definitive answer but as yet have had no reply. The Real website doesn’t even list the Drivo as an option!!
Close. The slope mode on the PC software basically emulates resistance based on rear wheel speed. The faster the ‘rear wheel’ turn the higher the resistance. For me the major benefits are that when I am doing hours of zone 2 stuff (which will be 90% of my riding for the next 2 months) I can control resistance and cadence from my shifters while I am mind-numbingly absorbed into whatever Netflix series I am pushing through. I can also stretch out the legs and stand for short bursts just by shifting up a few gears.This is especially nice early in my off season after several weeks off the bike. My heart rate and power output tend not to be ‘coupled’ and power will reduce during my ride, I can just slow my cadence down a couple of RPM and loose 2-3 watts of resistance. I also like that while training this way I see less fluctuation in my power output, not so many overshoots and undershoots while the trainer corrects small deviations.
I guess the key for me here is that the same trainer using software from the same supplier has different levels of functionality. When that happens it never seems like one or the other has advantages, it always comes of as a compromise. I will probably just bite the bullet and get an ANT+ HR strap just for indoor training.
What are the best (if any?) apps that support bluetooth control for the Drivo from an iPad? Anything beyond myetraining? It’s a little unclear from the latest trainer guide or developers’ websites.
TR received some Elite trainers including the Drivo. They are now working to improve their app with the Drivo including bluetooth support.
See the comments of Corey and Nicholas here;
link to support.trainerroad.com
I’ve been using Sufferfest for the last couple of weeks and on the whole it works great. Only a few minor glitches when the drivo fails to change power quick enough.
FULGAZ looks good but I found out at the moment it does not support controlling Elite trainers, they are working on it and hoped to have that functionality soon.
Still waiting for Zwift on ios!!!
Hi guys!
I’ve joined this blog a bit late but… I decided to buy a Drivo a few weeks ago then, changed my mind and waited for the Tacx Flux and got one last week. I was excited about the Flux before it arrived, but I wasn’t impressed with it after using it 3 times (Zwift, Bkool), so purchased a Drivo on Friday and arrived yesterday. :-)
I compared both trainers on the same 3 mile route on the Bkool app and this confirmed that the Drivo was a better trainer by far. It felt fantastic compared to the Flux! The Drivo gave the resistance up the climbs as soon as I was on them and I could feel the inertia of the flywheels… perfect!
I used Zwift on Friday and rode ‘Mountain 8’ using the Flux. I wasn’t impressed. The Flux seemed to limit the speed on the last climb to the radio mast to 6mph. Well, I had been stuck at this speed most of the way up and had upped the effort/cadence/gear to get more speed, but it wouldn’t have it. The feel on the downhills wasn’t great either feeling like hitting a strong headwind.
Today I used Zwift and rode ‘Mountain 8’ again but with the Drivo. As I started to climb Watopia, I was waiting for the gradient resistance to kick in… but it didn’t. A little but not much. I was on 50/21 (compact crank), cadence around 90rpm… and 6mph! I did hammer it at one point and the speed slowly went up to 8mph but it wasn’t like ‘reality’ in any way. I’d be at 20mph+ on the road.
When I reached the last climb to the radio mast, same 50/21, cadence 90rpm… and I was stuck at 4mph! Comparing the data from both Watopia rides and I was producing nearly twice the power at some points but going slower! I did see that the cadence was way too low when using the Flux but correct with the Drivo.
I’m going to try a longer ride using the Bkool app and see how the Drivo responds to the climbs, as it felt OK yesterday. If it doesn’t behave I will be sending that back as well as the Flux!
Previous trainer – Bkool Pro, 1100+ miles mainly last December – April.
Current bikes – Focus Izalco Max, Scott Addict 30, 2016 Stumpjumper Comp.
Current obsession – Buying the best smart trainer out there.
Thanks for sharing your impressions, Kevin! If the Drivo will not deliver, then you can still try the Neo, the Kickr2 or the the Hammer. Competition is great!
Ha ha!! I’ve been looking at all of these and they all have there good and bad points. The most important for me is how it responds to gradients either up or down. I think it might be a Zwift problem but I read Elite worked closely with Zwift developing the Drivo, so why was it so bad today?
If I can return my Drivo with no hassle I think I will hold on for a Cyclops Hammer. I can get a good deal on one but it will be first week in 2017 before I get it :-(
Was trainer difficulty set on 100% in Zwift options?
It was at the default 50%, but that shouldn’t be limiting the speed, should it? I would be able to go as fast as some of the other riders who flew past ;-)
‘I would be able to go as fast as some of the other riders who flew past’… if I had it set to ‘Off’ ;-)
It won’t impact speed, your end-state power numbers will. By using it at 50% difficulty, you’re basically going at half the grade. Ultimately, your power numbers control speed in Zwift.
Details on difficulty here: link to zwiftblog.com
That said – if you’re looking for the most realism in climbs/descents as it sounds like you are, it should really be set at 50%.
Trainer difficulty setting is only for scaling resistance of your trainer. It doesn’t affect power output and therefore speed at all. You wouldn’t go any faster on lower difficulty settings. You’d just have to use harder gears to produce same power.
I asked about trainer difficulty setting because from what you wrote it seems like Drivo didn’t set enough resistance for Radio Tower climb. Also to go 20mph on this climb you would need to sustain way over 1000W for some time.
Hi Kevin
I’ve just been on zwift and it worked fine on the hills. In fact I was surprised at how quick it reacted to change in gradient
Did you select a workout the first time if so it will be in erg mode so speed won’t really change on the hills,I found this out yesterday.
At first I was I was also a bit cold on the drivo but the more I use and understand it the better it’s getting. Support from Elite is a bit hit and miss, they seem to respond to your first question but if you follow it up I’ve found you don’t get any reply and they have a habit of not really answering the question you asked.
I am still trying to find out how you update the drivo firmware if you only use mac/iOS all I get back is that updates will be available via real software(which is pic only)
I wasn’t in erg mode. I just went on a Mountain 8 ride. This was only the 3rd time I’ve used Zwift after 11 months using the Bkool app. I might try it again as I seem to be the only one with this problem. I have an idea of what it might be, bit it’s only an idea.
Haha, yeah in this case I think the difficulty setting of 50% really makes it seem not as steep as it really is. A 16% climb in real life with an 11-23 and even a compact 50/34 would be a having to stand and crank it out, just to keep going. Because it feels only half as steep, you expect to be able to lay down a moderate amount of more power and see your speed really go up, but that just doesn’t happen. I think this is one instance where the default difficulty sort of makes it less realistic.
I was thinking I’d put an 11-23 on whichever one I get so I can control my cadence better, and figured I’d adjust the difficulty such that I can still get a good workout in. The speed itself doesn’t matter, but if I’m trying to do 20 minutes at threshold, I’d like to at least be able to maintain 90 rpm. I’m lucky that I have a hill right by my house that lets me do that (though I had to bump up to an 11-28 so I can maintain 90rpm when doing FTP tests there.)
Anyway, I think the difficulty lets you adjust it so you can make the workout most effective for your needs, because that’s what’s really important after all.
I’ve realised what the problem was now, I think.
In Zwift when pairing the devices, I paired the ‘Power Source’ (which was the trainer), ‘Heart Rate’, ‘Cadence’, but I didn’t pair the ‘Controllable Trainer’ as I thought that it had already been selected as the ‘Power Source’ and used the same ‘trainer’ icon.
I should have realised this when I saw there were only 3 of the 4 ‘Device Status’ icons highlighted when selecting my ride. So, the Drivo wasn’t being ‘controlled’ by the gradients either up or down. These WERE all highlighted when I rode the ‘Mountain 8’ with the Flux, so that was being ‘controlled’, although it didn’t feel like it. I might have to dig the Flux out of the box and try it again.
I was going to give my legs a rest today but will try the ‘Mountain 8’ again later.
Hello,
What do you guys think about the speed values recorded?
I’ve just used the drivo once (ANT+ FE-C with Golden Cheetah and paired only via ANT+ with a Garmin 510), as per the Elite manual I had to set the wheel circumference at 605mm (=2095/3.46) … but imho the speed seems to be underestimated.
I know that in .erg mode the speed is relatively useless but i’d like to have realistic values.
Do you think the scaling factor 1/3.46 is ok?
thanks
I’m trying to update the software to 7.2.0.77 and get the message: Gateway Anti-Virus Alert
This request is blocked by the Firewall Gateway Anti-Virus Service. Name: (Cloud Id: 46373523) Agent.FL (Trojan)
Does anyone have any idea what my internet security doesn’t like about the program?
Hi, thank you for running this amazing resource. Really is the bible.
How does the release of the Flux impact the position of the Drivo, do you think? I can get the drivo for ¬£865 or the Flux for £665 so it’s a £200 difference for… what exactly? Slightly easier to move the Drivo (it has a handle and folds slightly – good for me as I need to move it out of the way regularly), it’s slightly quieter, it’s slightly more accurate – for £200 more. I would be interested if there is any X-Factor which just makes the Drivo more enjoyable to ride (if you were doing a blind test, which would you prefer?). I saw GPLama’s bad experience with the Flux but am prepared to say that’s unusual. Would appreciate any thoughts on this – i see at least one user has ridden both.
Hey lefthandside,
Not sure if it matters as much to you, but a differentiating factor for me between the Flux and all of the trainers above it in price, was that the flux just estimates power, whereas the others use a power meter. I’m currently using a Powertap wheel on a Cycleops Fluid2 for Zwift, and I didn’t want to downgrade my power accuracy for the noise and tire wear benefits of a direct drive trainer, so I’ve ruled out the Flux. I also plan to do a lot of intervals in Workout mode, and the Flux really seemed to lag the others in it’s power readings for intervals. This was noticed by Lama, DC, and some other youtubers.
Hi,
Was wondering if anyone had this issue. I bought two Drivos, first one works perfectly with Zwift. Second one, resistances don’t seem to follow the slope simulation in Zwift. A 7% feels like a 12% at times, and 2% felt way too hard. Currently set at 50% trainer difficulty. Tried to set power at 100 last night via the elite app and resistance went crazy hard. Tried elite app this morning and it seemed to work for the first 5 minutes that I tested. Resistance with Zwift however seems all over the place. Sometimes it works okay, sometimes it doesn’t. Anyone having similar issues? I’m suspicious it could be Zwift but my other drivo works flawlessly. Using same software, connectors, settings, etc. For both.
If you’re using an ANT+ sensor connected to your laptop, I’d strongly suggest you buy a 15ft usb repeater cable with the ANT+ connector sitting on the trainer with some velcro.
I noticed a big improvement with the repeater cable, no more power drop outs and the hill simulations are smooth as butter at 50%
Thank you for the response, already doing that, have an extension cable right next to the trainer. One works perfectly, the other one does not, literally same parameters.
I had a similar problem with my Bkool Pro tonight on Zwift. But the gradients were out of sync by 10 seconds some times and some steep climbs didn’t kick in until I was near the top :-)
I was cursing Zwift but I it might be that I was using another Ant+ USB dongle rather than the Bkool Ant+ dongle it came with. It had been working OK with the Bkool dongle yesterday. I will try it again ASAP and if it does the same, I will swap mid ride to check .
Thanks, been using the same ant+ dongle for over a year, it’s worked fine. It’s odd because it only happens in the simulation mode, workout mode works fine
I’ve seen a few people ask how you update the firmware for the Drivo, but no answers. I’m wondering the same thing. It says I have version 3.2.2 in the myetraining app, but no options to update or search for an update.
I really like my Drivo but am having some of the ERG mode issues others are having. In Zwift workout mode, when changing from a lower to higher wattage, it occasionally starts increasing resistance as normal, but doesn’t stop and goes all the way to full resistance. Leaving me either to barely turn my smallest gear over out of the saddle, or stop pedalling all together. It then sorts itself out after 30 seconds or so. Strange because it is fine 9/10 times.
Am hoping there is a firmware update to sort it, as it seems from earlier posts in this thread that Elite were on to it.
Hey guys, does anybody have some updates regarding the fw update? I’ve already logged about 1000k on my new Drivo, pretty pleased with the Zwift experience, but doing workouts is a pain :-)…
Cheers,
Tudor
Good luck! I’ve done about the same mileage and I am enjoying the drivo. However despite asking Elite on 3 occasions I have still to receive answers to when the firmware update mentioned earlier in this thread will arrive and when it does,how you actually install it. Like you I would love to know.
Hey guys,
here’s an update: I just received an answer from Elite Helpdesk saying to use Power Smoothing from their app. And there was an earlier post here by Elite stating:
“In any case, in order to improve the Drivo (and considering your claims), we’ve decided to make a modification and let the user decides the level of smooth of the power measurement. The user will be able to set the quantity of smoothness from the app as he prefers. In this way, our users will the power data as they prefer. Actual or more smoothed.”
So this option is in the android app (a new version for android has been released a few days ago) -and one can set values ranging from 1-> n? :-) – there’s no documentation on this (or I haven’t found it) – but I’ve set it to 3 and will try it out tomorrow. Did anybody before tried this setting before? I also suspect this is a persistant setting on the trainer (sort like a fw update)…
Cheers,
Tudor
with all the respect …. for christ sake , who is talking about “smoothing the power measurements ” ?!! Most of the people here have the same problem which is simply putting :
going from 200W to 400W in ERG MODE (doing constant 80rpm) will simply kill you because it will kick you with 500W and more …. and you can still ride that 80rpm and it won’t let go. U will be simply doing that sick wattage untill u resign.
Is there a solution for this overkicking servo ?
I’d argue that if you’re seeing power consistency issues…it might actually be the app.
After all, as you can see in the review, TrainerRoad has zero issues holding stunning curves without any spikes in ERG mode (at almost identical wattages to what you just noted).
Many apps handle ERG mode differently, and some kinda screw it up. Just something to keep in mind.
Hi,
So we bought an Elite Drivo for X-mas and it works via blue tooth on my phone. It does not work on Zwift via Ant+. It seems to find the device and pair but the rider does not move. I’ve contacted Zwift and there suggestion was the USB extension, which I got. Still no luck. I’ve sent email to Elite with no response and contacted Clever Training which, though very nice, could not help. Any suggestions?
Regards, Eric
In Zwift, are you ensuring that you’re pairing it as a ‘Controllable Trainer’, and that it should say FE-C next to it? Versus pairing to just the power meter side?
Also – try unplugging the Drivo, and then plugging back in, and for fun – turn off Bluetooth on your phone/iPad/etc, just to make sure it’s not holding an active connection to it and causing some sort of issue.
Thanks for the response. Tried all of the above, we have been pairing as a controllable trainer. Still no luck. :( If it was a bad dongle, I can’t understand why it finds the device and pairs with it? We don’t have any electrical interference going no fans etc. I tried the Bluetooth off on my phone as well.
A bad dongle seems pretty unlikely if you ask me. I could see an extension issue. Have you by chance pulled the desktop right next to it (or put the laptop right next to it), for pairing?
You could also download the ANT+ testing software – Simulant – to see if it’s broadcasting an FE-C signal or not. Alternatively, perhaps try and see if PerfPro will see it (you can download their 30-day trial), or GoldenCheetah. Both would easily pickup ANT+ FE-C trainers.
Hi DC. We did get a USB extension and still no luck. The dongle is a foot away from the unit. It also does not work on the computer via Elite’s simulation software. I’ll try the Ant+ testing software. :(
I’ve got the simulant software but, no idea where to start with that. :(
UPDATE.
Hi,
So when I use my laptop, it works!? It still does not work on my desktop using the same dongle and trying multiple USB ports….Confusing :)
Eric
This sounds like a device driver problem. I would look at Device Manager on both machines and compare driver versions or whether it even shows in the list.
I’m having a similar issue with Drivo and Zwift.
I see all of the readings (power, rpm, heart rate, speed) but the resistance doesn’t change. The Zwift website had this known issue back in October:
We’re currently investigating an issue that’s preventing some trainers from pairing as both Power and Controllable Trainer under BLE. Devices we’re currently aware of that are affected by this issue include:
•Tacx Vortex
•Elite trainers that use the Misuro B+
Do I have a Zwift issue rather than a Drivo issue and would I have better results with TrainerRoad?
I’ve got the simulant software but, no idea where to start with that! :(
Can you help with the Elite software since their forum and instructions are useless. I wish to ride using “Real video” The video is installed but it seems I need to add / enable a competitor. Any idea how to do this? Thanks.
Hi Footloose.
Just installed it myself (Win10/Ant+)and added the free Alp D’Huez video and was able to start without any competitor.
So tracking back steps, are you clicking on the realvideo icon in the Elite software, which brings up the available video’s ? You should just have an option to select “ride” and definitly don’t need another racer?
I sorted this out though not sure what I did. The issue I have now is that the slopes even the slightest up slope are absurdly hard. Almost come to a halt at 2 or 3%. Completely unrealistic. Much better on Zwift. Any ideas what may need adjusting?
There is a bug/feature with the RealVideo app where it interprets your profile body weight as kilos, which causes tension/resistance changes to be about 10X higher than they should be. Changing your profile units and body weight to “Metrical System” or converting your “Anglosaxon system” profile weight to kilos solves the problem. So my weight is 168 LBs and if I change my profile weight 76 (what it is in Kilos) the Alpe d’Huez video resistance works like you would expect it to. Once done with the training video you have to remember to convert your “Anglosaxon system” profile weight back to pounds (168 in my case).
I am running the app on my Windows 10 laptop, don’t know if the same issues exists with the IOS based app.
i am an idiot at times. You have to change to Metrical and set your weight in kilos. Sorry for the confusion.
Hi All
Been hanging around here for some time and finally took the plunge. Thanks everyone for the various postings as they have definitely helped in narrowing the field down.Only had a chance to play with it for 30 mins so far but noticed a weirdness with the LED’s
Mine is only showing the red power light and darkness where the green and blue LED are supposed to be. I can connect both in BT and ANT+ ( note I wasn’t able to control the drivo in BT, but it was definitely paired).
Waiting to hear back from Elite on the missing LED – anyone had these gone awol from new machines ? May open it up to see if they are even missing like someone posted earlier.
Separate question – just for my education: given I connect with ANT+ (Win10 machine), i assume there is no need to do any BLE pairing with other devices ? Or am i missing something here?
Thanks!
Hi HurdyGurdy,
I have the same problem with one LED light being out. Mine is the blue one that tells you that you are paired with Bluetooth. However, I was able to pair with Bluetooth no problems and the trainer does respond accordingly. Contacted Elite and they said it’s likely a burnt or defective light. They suggested to potentially have it exchanged but don’t care to do that if everything else works. It’s a bid odd though that in your case it seems to pair but doesn’t appear to respond. I would just make sure it’s paired to controllable trainer.
Hi HurdyGurdy,
Same issue happened to me!!
I’d suggest you to wait for Elite feedback. They should ask you to open the panel and inspect the board + taking pictures.
In my case the root cause was pretty clear: only the red/power LED was physically there. Blue/BLE and green/ANT+ LEDs were not there.
And of course it was not a damage due to the shipment because the package and the plastic case are totally fine.
I have just shipped it back today, waiting for a replacement now…
I’m just wandering how a device with 2 out 3 leds not blinking can pass a basic quality check…
Thanks – Still waiting to hear back from Elite. Interesting problem, if they indeed forgot to check that, makes you wonder what else got forgotten as part of the QC process.
Loath to send it back just for that though if everything else ends up working.
New problem i have now is that my phone does not want to pair over BT with it. I keep getting message that connection is refused by the DRIVO when pairing?
Ok – seems I definitely ended up with a lemon so it’s going back. Great trainer but does Elite need to work on their QC. Guess I am giving them one more chance to exchange or have to go NEO.
First real ride and felt a bit unstable so checking the unit realised there is like .5cm gap between floor and right rear support, same as poster earlier on this thread.
Coupled that with a bug gap in the shell itself, looks like this is definitely a Monday morning unit. I guess i could always put it on something to level but frankly should not be happening in a £1K device.
BTW two days in and still waiting for a response from elite support on the ticket I raised!
I agree that there are quality control issues with the Drivo, I’m now on my 3rd unit in 10 days, the first one had only the ANT+ LED working, on further inspection the other 2 LEDs had been put on the circuit board on an angle so were off their pads so not getting a connection and subsequently this was never going to work! The second one seemed OK until I rode it, and rather than being smooth like the first one I could feel vibration through the frame, coupled with a groaning noise as the the flywheel came to a stop I decided this was not good enough so am sending that one back too. Fingers crossed that the third one will be OK, it seems it so far except for the slight annoyance that I have had with all 3 units that the stickers have been slapped on, on an angle and and some have air bubbles in them too. It’s not really what I expected on a trainer that costs this much!
Well good luck with this 3rd one!
Honestly I’m now waiting for the 2nd one but if it comes with issues, that would be enough for me and probably I will not give them a 3rd chance.
Also because being with no trainer while waiting for the replacement one during these winter days, while originally I bought it on purpose to be used in this period, it’s kind of bothering me…I can afford it once but not twice for sure :)
Hi Laura – Did you purchase and exchange this in the UK as I am still waiting for my retailer to get approval from Madison to exchange. Given you were able to get three trainers in 10 days, interested to see where this was.
Well this has made my Drivo vs Hammer dilemna easier to navigate. I did already like that the Hammer allowed for a fine adjustment to leveling in case your floor isn’t totally level, whereas the Drivo just has the three course adjustments of rotating the legs on the front bar, which looks like pretty big differences between each setting. Since I’m in the US, it makes it a bit easier since Cycleops is too, and I already know their customer service is excellent and very responsive from currently owning a Powertap wheelset (now 10 years old, but they upgraded it to the G3 ANT+ version for what I thought was a very reasonable fee)
Thanks for sharing your issues. You only have so many days to train, and I don’t want to be missing any due to QC issues that shouldn’t be there in the first place on a device this expensive.
Good Luck.
I kind of am happy now i had to return the unit as rather than exchange I am doing a repurchase and refund so there is no gap in training ( well apart from work getting in the way). It dropped another 5% in price last few days so gap between drivo and neo is £150+ now.
Just hoping second unit is all ok !
Hi HurdyGurdy
Yes I am in the UK and bought mine from Wiggle. Rather than send it back for a replacement I just ordered another and then sent the broken one back for a refund otherwise I’d have been without a trainer for too long and it seemed like a lot less hassle to do it this way as long as your credit card can stand it lol. It’s interesting to hear that you have to wait for Madison approval, that sounds like the retailer offloading responsibility to me :-) Where did you get yours from?
Did the same in the end. Actually seems that the Madison conversation was more to check if there are wider issues which could mean that just sending me another one was not going to be really solving things. But I am sure there must be enough happy owners out there in the end agreed the same route as you did and switcheroo is in progress.
Purchased from Sigma ( kind of like good old fashioned LBS for these big outlays) and they were superb to deal with imho. They also have a really good price on at the moment !
I’ve had quite a lot of dealings with Sigma in the past and in fairness they have always been great. I hope your new one doesn’t have any issues! I really do like the Drivo but there does seem to be a lot of random quality issues around which is a real shame as when you get a properly working one it is superb.
I received 2 Drivos with the same GAP issue in the rear leg.. 3rd seems to work…
New one seems to be in far better shape – all led’s working and support feet are level. Comparing them side to side it was obvious something had gone wrong with the assembly of the previous one as the gap that runs along the middle was not even along the length of the trainer. Strangely, the S/N of new one is only 5 nrs up from first one so definitely same batch.
This is the beauty of working with an LBS- asked if they could unpack and QC before sending one out again. Given they would incur the shopping costs if proven to be broken again, win win for all parties!
I read your post above. If you’re looking for good quality control don’t go Neo. Definitely a crap shoot whether yours will be okay or not. The Neo has been out now for quite a while and they have not corrected its problems. Tacx does not want to or know now to solve the Neo issues and their solution is to give you a new one after you wait out that swap. Good luck.
I’m having the same issue with a S/N 44000 (and something). Got to Elite support and received a mail that it (could) be an assembly issue, and they’ll send me a new leg & a bumpon with a picture of where I have to put it.
Transcript:
It could be possible that there was a mistake on the assembling
I propose you the following:
I will send you a new leg and the missing part (a bumbon) to replace your
End Transcript.
Hey guys – regarding the jumpy resistance changes when using FE-C in workouts – here’s what Elite said:
Good Afternoon
Once apply the power smooth on My E-ì-Training app the Drivo will save the settings on its inside
Regards
Andrea Brotto
Elite srl
So – there’s the fix for it ;-) It remains to figure out only what value to use…;-)
Tudor
Ive done 500km on Zwift (mostly in workout mode) with my Drivo now and definitely think I made the right choice. It is a great trainer. I’m just desperate for this firmware update to sort the sporadic issues in ERG mode. Every now and then when starting an interval, the trainer just applies resistance and doesn’t stop until it is fully locked (even though the power figure goes way above what is required and Zwift is visibly saying ‘reduce power’). The only way to sort it is to completely stop and wait for it to sort itself out, which ruins the workout.
I find it happens more when I have an interval that requires really high power, as I obviously have to hammer the pedals which spikes the power to above the target, which makes the trainer increase resistance quickly. However it is very difficult to apply 400+ watts slowly and smoothly trying to feather the pedals and avoid spiking the power!
I have also had a couple of intervals where it has done the opposite I.e. Cut all resistance even though Zwift is demanding more.
It really puts me off taking on a micro interval workout, would be a nightmare!
For info, I’m connected via Bluetooth and have experienced no discernible dropouts.
Tudor,
I cannot change the power smoothing value within the ios app as its asking for an ant+ connection. How did you do it? DO you have an ios ant+ adapter?
I cannot connect via Bluetooth to my iPhone.
Thanks
Chris
Hey Chris,
Unfortunately I’ve connected to the Drivo using bluetoooth from android. But I guess on IOS it should work in the same way: just scan the barcode, connect, start pedalling and update the value. I’ve used 7 and now I’m on 10, It appears to be a better option…
Tudor
I can’t see where to change the value you mention. Where in the app or elite software is this done? Thanks
Go into the app and choose parameters then go down to advance config and it’s about half way down. You have to be connected to change it.
Thanks. Will try that.
Hi :)
my dad just bought the Elite Drivo and he got some problems with the bluetooh connection to his iPhone 7 and his iPad Air 2…both devices don’t connect with the Elite Drivo.
Then he tried it with a Samsung phone and it connected right away.
A friend of mine who has the Elite Drivo as well does get connection to his iPad and can use the app and do all the programmes.
We already talked to the guys from Elite but they couldn’t really understand either why it is not working as it actually is supossed to.
Do you have any idea what might be the problem?
He is getting a little desperate about that.
Thank you already :)
Kind regards,
Maria :)
Hi Maria,
Do all there lights come on when you turn it on? If the blue one does not, it might be a Bluetooth issue. The Samsung might be connecting via ANT+. If that’s the case, the ANT+ light should stay on and the blue one should turn off (assuming they all work). I would try another Bluetooth device to see if it works but if the Bluetooth light never turns on, it might be a Bluetooth defect.
Hi David :)
thanks for your reply.
Yes, all the lights come on when he turns it on and it is definetly not a bluetooth issue.
My suspicion is that Elite has issues with iOS. Well, he uses his old Samsung mobile but actually this is not the wanted solution, especially for this price.
But thank you :)
Hi Maria,
I’m using IOS on an iPhone 6 and my Drivo connects fine. One thing I have noticed with the Drivo is that you appear to be able to connect to only one device at a time, and it needs powering off and back on between connection attempts to a different device. The non-connection issues I’ve had have been that the Drivo connected to Bluetooth on my laptop without me realising and it then wouldn’t connect to ANT+, similarly after I’d been using it on ANT+ it would not connect to my iPhone until after I’d powered the Drivo off and back on again. It then connected fine, so it may be worth checking if there are any other Bluetooth/ANT+ devices around that are interfering?
Thank you Laura :)
we checked that as well but still no good luck – it is a little frustrating but he uses his old android phone and it works.
But thank you :)
No help but I have the same problem in that my current mobile (ok not that current ) MotoG3 pairs and then gets a message connection refused by DRIVO.
Not fussed as plugged in a USB OTG to Ant adapter and that works. But was never able to work around why the connection was refused.
Don’t know enough about IOS devices but can you not use similar USB OTG option on those ?
Hi
Has anybody tried the supplied cadence sensor? I have plugged mine in and whilst it appears to work the locating hole is bigger than the plug and it is very loose as though it’s just hanging in…..it has no discernible plugging in feeling almost like the connection behind the socket has fallen away and it not connected to anything.
Anyone else found this?
Hi Raymond,
I’ve tried the Cadence sensor on two Drivos and they each push in with a discernible click at the end. My question to you is, how do you know that it is working? The Drivo transmits cadence without it anyway and other than buying the Elite Pedal Analysis software I don’t see on mine any way to tell if it works or not as it doesn’t appear to have any lights or other means of showing that it is actually a functioning sensor. Unless I am missing something? I decided to try the sensor because when using BKOOL I would get sporadic cadence readings jumping up to 200rpm+ for no reason. It seems to have been better after plugging the sensor in but this may just be a coincidence!
Thanks Laura
I’ve investigated further and it looks like the spring clip inside the connection is either broken or not there.
A bodge with blu tac is stopping it falling out and at the moment it’s working with the pedalling analysis Elite app.
Not ideal, will have to get on to the supplier for a solution.
Similar to you I started trying it and the way I noticed it was working, was that in sufferfest I had far less variation in the RPM number. Before using it, was just always over then undershooting whilst I was pretty sure I wasn’t changing cadence.
So it definitely makes a difference imho.
I bought a Drivo to use with trainerroad. I used the TR android app which paired over bluetooth no problems. I never saw the blue LED like others have mentioned. It worked OK but not great and seemed to overcompensate up and down. TR said it had not yet been optimised, they are working on it but no ETA. Elite say a firmware update is due before end Jan but not clear what this is for. The last straw for me was failing to complete a high power workout when it was overshooing/undershooting by upto 100 watts. I also tried with the TR PC app and ANT+ but it was the same. I sent it back and bought a Wahoo Kickr. Riding this is like night and day the Kickr responds super fast and the power control is super smooth. The Drivo was certainly quieter and I think the issues are software related but with no ETA I couldn’t wait.
Hey Gary,
regarding the firmware – is it just rumors or did somebody from Elite confirmed this? Basically I’m in the same situation here – overall happy but FE-C is not quite what I was expecting…
Thanks,
Tudor
Also curious about the firmware update. I just received my unit today and I am quite unhappy with it. I’m having the same issues other people are with the resistance overshooting and undershooting, making interval workouts just about impossible. If Elite isn’t updating this in the next few days, back it goes. It seems pretty clear that this unit was rushed to release before it was really ready. Not so excited to be a beta tester at this price point.
Below is what elite told me. I have no idea what effect the latest firmware will have. Good luck with it.
“at the moment there is no official tool to upgrade to the lastest fw.
Within the end of January (likely even before), it will be released a tool to upgrade the fw of Drivo.”
Hi Paul, I found that setting the ‘Power Smoothing’ parameter in the My-E-Training IOS app helped with issue you describe. It seems like the maximum value you can enter is ’10’ and that is what I have it at and it’s much better than with the default value, which I think was ‘2’.
However, I’m still seeing an issue that others have described where the resistance will continue to increase indefinitely during an ERG workout when the required resistance increases by a large amount – e.g. ~100w – unless you anticipate the increase and give it some gas before the resistance change.
Hope that helps.
if it helps, it helps :D
link to connect.garmin.com
with a smoothing factor = 10, i’m pretty pleased with the responsiveness of the trainer; what do you guys think about the power graph? target wattage was set in zwift at 160 and there were no major hickups…
are the neo / kickr better? the vortex has definitely a more smoother curve, but then again, it’s lacking elite’s accuracy…
tudor
This TR graph show some of the under/over shooting issues I was seeing. Same on android/ble and pc/ant+. Checkout the differences between target and actual power.
Hey guys,
I connected the Drivo to a 735XT, but have some issues with the recorded speed on my 735XT. The speed is way too high. According to the Garmin I’m riding at 35km/h even at lowest efforts. E.g. it recorded an average speed of 69km/h in my last workout.
I connected Drivo’s “Spd/Cad” and “Power” sensors to the 735XT. Also I tried different settings in the Wheel Size Option (i.e Manual and Auto), but unfortunately without success.
Did anyone experience similar issues and knows how to adjust this?
Thanks a lot!
Hi Michael – i know you stated you already tried different wheel sizes but did you actually change it to something in the 605 range?
Hi Michael,
Somewhere in the manual they state you have to divide wheel circumference by 3.46 when not using Elite app/software (and this is the case for your 735xt).
Please have a look at my previous post #259
Perfect! Works like a charm! Thanks a lot for the quick response and your support.
Like some others, I noticed that the Blue and Green LEDs are not lighting up.
They were when I first purchased the Drivo about 5 months ago.
Since then I have been using in ANT+ FE-C mode with the Garmin 820, and it’s been fine.
I went to try to update the power smoothing today using the my-Etraining app, but it wouldn’t connect.
I noticed then that the LEDs aren’t lighting up anymore, even though it is connecting to the Garmin.
I opened the panel, and found that the blue LED had dropped off completely, and the green one was half hanging off.
I suspect this is a bad design – the plastic casing is quite flexible, so any flex is pressing the housing against the LEDs and must be breaking them off.
So I expect I will return my unit for replacement under warranty, but worried about how carefully I will need to treat the replacement. I will also see what Elite support say.
Apart from this I’ve been very happy with the trainer, but as others have said, for this amount of money I would not expect such a basic design problem.
I’ve had my Drivo for about a month and have put 400+ miles on it.
This morning I started seeing crazy power readings, it got up to about 1500 watts while I was at an easy approx 75 rpm. Initially I thought it might be Zwift, shut Zwift down and started up TrainerRoad (after also rebooting the Drivo a few times). I got the same power readouts on TR as I was with Zwift.
I did send an email to Elite but it’s to soon to expect a response.
I have a giant OCR1. I can’t seem to get the drivo axle perpendicular to my bike frame. Attempts to adjust axle position in the dropouts leaves the bike at an angle. Any suggestions? thx
Hi Ben,
It looks like it is sat correctly to me, the top of the Drivo is always over to the non drive side seatstay. In my case as I have shaped stays there is about 1mm of clearance between the top of the Drivo casing and the frame. I’ve put a piece of bar tape in there to stop it rubbing under hard efforts. One thing I have noticed from your picture is that you appear to have the non driveside spacer on the wrong side of the bike frame. For standard road bikes that spacer goes on the OUTSIDE of the frame. Only if it has 135mm axle spacing (usually for road bikes with disk brakes and MTBs) does it go inside the frame. If you try and ride it with the spacer on the wrong side the quick realease will not tighten up enough and your bike will not be held tight. I’ve attached a pic to show this and the frame clearance.
Hi Lauren, Yes, I understand that the unit will sit on the left side, but it is also angled slightly to the left rather than pointing straight ahead so the axle is not perpendicular to the bike and I am concerned about excessive chain/gear wear. Is yours doing that too?
Keen eyes on the spacer. I had originally tried it on the outside but i had trouble getting the dropouts to sit.
Thanks so much for the reply.
Hi Ben,
This was pretty similar to my issue which in the end was caused by the whole unit to be warped. If you put the unit on flat surface, do both rear support legs touch the floor ? I realised that in my case, the whole thing was built at an angle and as result the bike was not very stable. Used a spirit level on the bike once mounted and it was clear it was heavily tilting to the left, exactly the space where the rear supports were wrongly assembled.
New one is way more level, though gotta say it doesn’t feel as “rock” solid as i was expecting. Fair amount of flex in the unit but.
Yes, all feet are touching and appear flat, though I a going to rig something to measure the axle level. .. I agree that the unit is not very stable (when climbing), but that is actually a good thing because it is less stress on the (in my case) carbon frame for side to side motion.
Thanks for responding, HurdyGurdy.
Just received mine yesterday and not absolutely convinced it is brand new as the box was a bit dog eared and the internal packing cardboard was ripped in several places; is there some internal counters to access that might give me some usage info?
Also on my PC it takes 5-15 seconds to ramp up the speed, cadence and power if I suddenly increase my output but it seems OK if I use the iPad add with bluetooth.
I bought an Elite Kura mainly to have a accurate direct drive trainer with power read out. Tried in the region of 6 crank based power meters to compare the wattage reading and the Kura reads low vs all of them, about 25-30 watts at 300 watts.
Spoke to elite and they told me to calibrate it, which we know you cannot do.
Yet again elite produces on paper a great product but fails to live up to expectations and their customer service is diabolical.
If a direct drive trainer is accurate, then it should read low compared to a crank based power meter. A crank or pedal based power meter should give the highest readings. A hub based, or direct drive trainer power meter will read lower because of drivetrain losses. The best you can hope for is to have the power be accurate at whichever place it’s being read. If they just jacked up the calibration values by 8-10% to match the crank-based power meter, it would no longer be accurate, or it might only be accurate when it’s in the same gear, and the drivetrain is in the same state of cleanliness. Better to have it accurate and consistent. Just do an FTP test on your trainer and base your training values off of that, rather than using your outdoor FTP. What matters is that you get effective training, not the number itself.
Well that was my first suspicion too however I’ll refer you to this exact review where a crank based power meter is compared in terms of readout and they are almost the same. why is mine not??
I’d agree that unless your drive-train is exceptionally dirty, that it shouldn’t be 10% low. 2-3% is the more common number.
As for determining which unit (crank based power meter or the trainer) is inaccurate, you’d have to either find a 3rd method of measuring power, or more than one crank based power meter. It sounds like you’ve tried 6 bikes? If so – and all of them agree (and all of them have had zero offsets done while inside), then I’d go back to Elite again and ask them if your unit is defective.
Actually, you can (and should according to Elite) calibrate the PM in the Drivo & Kuro. It’s through the app, I only have the iOS version so can’t comment on the windows app.
It gives you a number that’s stored inside the Drivo and Elite says to do it once a month.
It’s actually in the manual too.
I’m having the same issue as you concerning higher power readings from my stages vs the drivo. Both are calibrated, my FTP session over 20 min is showing 9W different (288W vs 279W). It varies from interval to interval it seems.5 min interval is 11W difference.
link to trainerroad.com (Drivo)
link to trainerroad.com (Stages source – other iOS app)
I’ll go test my bike on a Tacx Neo tomorrow evening, and another guy with a power2max will test my drivo and we’ll know more after that.
I know about the difference concerning place of power measurement, so as long as it’s about 3-4% i’m ok with it, as long as I know both are reasonably accurate but produce consistent wattages.
By the way, even ANT+ vs Bluetooth has differences when coming from the same PM (Stages). Sometimes 2W’s difference too, probably due to different sampling? So that’s another thing that should be in the mix..
Did you fix your difference btw?
BTW : original mail from Elite support:
Good Morning
The internal power sensor is like a normal sensor, we suggest to calibrate the power sensor of the trainer once a month
To do it:
Enter on My E-Training app
Go to Parameters -> Advanced Settings -> Trainer Calibration
I remain at disposal
Regards
Andrea Brotto
Elite srl
+ screenshot of Drivo manual regarding the calibration
Hi!
There is no menu “Trainer Calibration” on My E-Training app on iPhone (latest update done on 04.02.2017). Do you see it on yours?
Thanks
Yep, I see it.
On the home screen, click on parameters. You’ll might need to select your trainer, go through the steps and then you see the normal settings like circumference etc. Down below, there’s a (small) link advanced configuration. When you access that, you’ll get the option to calibrate the sensor too.
See picture.
Thanks for the quick reply.
I do not have that option, I don’t know why… Seems we have the same version of the app 3.3.3 (171)… Are you on “premium” membership on myETraining?
Jep, premium lifetime subscription that came with the Drivo.
Yeah, maybe that’s it. I will activate it tonight and see if the option will be visible…
Thank you!
Well, this is a bit disconcerting. I thought the Drivo was accurate “out of the box” with no need whatsoever to do a calibration or a spindown. This was probably the top reason I’m considering this trainer. It seems a major marketing point for this trainer. Is what we’ve been led to believe not true?
I’d really not try and re-calibrate the Kura/Drivo – if you can prove that you’re seeing issues with accuracy on either one, I’d go back to them and have them address it for your specific unit (likely something wrong with it, a pretty big rarity).
Many folks (including myself) have shown that these two units are really solid when it comes to accuracy. So if you’ve got a lemon, I’d treat it as such and try and get Elite to service it.
I owned an Ergomo crankset and the manual recommended that you calibrate before most rides. The Drivo power meter is based on the Ergomo unit then it should be calibrated at least once a month as per Elite recommendation. Maybe Gamin and other head units cannot perform a calibration due to lack of the Elite calibration algorithm. The Drivo calibration is based on a spin down just as the Ergomo. DCrainamker, maybe Elite can provide more information on calibration process.
For what it’s worth, every ride I do with the Elite Drivo almost matches the power from my Power2Max exactly. Every single ride the average power is within 1-2 watts of my Power2Max. I’m VERY happy with the accuracy/precision of the Drivo.
Hi Ray, as always thanks for your reviews and continual feedback in the comments.
I have been “enjoying” my Drivo having had one of the early units in September, great customer support when my unit broke and no serious issue with its replacement (which got they to me within the week).
I am one of the many who fairly often experience an “overshoot” in ergo mode at the beginning of intervals, especially those with a large jump. Having seen a tip for the Neo that suggested using an independent cadence sensor (rather than trainer estimated) i have been doing this and it seems to have some effect – does this make sense to you? Would the Drivo ergo computation change the resistance based on the external cadence sensor? perhaps it is my imagination that the change made a difference.
On the same topic my understanding is Ant+ (that i am using) sends messages once per second, does BTLE send messages more often? Could using BTLE improve “overshoot”? Not sure if Zwift have implemented Elite’s BT Smart Control yet, but i have a cheap-o direct from China BTLE dongle on the way to try.
It is difficult the work out the cause of “overshoot”, sometimes it might just be 10% for a second or two (which is fine), but sometimes it can be as much as 50% over that holds for ~10 seconds. Changes in my cadence seem to make a difference, but i don’t know how. I actually think i might be holding off and waiting for resistance to kick in rather than pushing more power into the pedals.
It’s not a big deal, but a little annoying.
I recall mention of a firmware update “fix” for the overshoot mentioned in the comments here a while ago, has there been any progress?
Hey Folks
So trying out variety of different programs and so far ZWIFT, veloreality and Sufferfest all work fine.
However trying the BKOOL app with the DRIVO, gives me awesome power and speeds, in the range of +1500watt and 75MPH. Obviously this must mean I am ready for a new career in pro cycling…. or the drivo and BKOOL not playing nice with each other.
Has anyone else experienced that? trying to find in BKOOL app if there is a way to set wheel circle but nothing so far.
So looking into the pedalling analysis – it seems that it is a paid upgrade for the Drivo?
That is a pretty poor show from Elite, spending a grand on the trainer and then having to pay to use its features.
Has anyone tried it and do you consider it value for money?
hey, i’ve considered it’s not worth the extra money. for what they’ve charged for the drivo, the whole package should come free, my oppinion :-). as a side note – for us amateurs there’s not so much left to improve (besides ftp, ofc) :-D, so i’d rather spend that money elsewhere…
how’s your drivo, after 1-2 months? happy with it? any news regarding the firmware?
regards,
tudor
Fwiw – I cover the pedaling analysis piece in my Interbike roundup section here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Drivo nr2 is ok – unfortunately work is interfering with my training plans so not as much time using it as I envisaged.
There is definitely a learning curve in moving to a fixed trainer, but getting used to it. Software wise I tried pretty much all that is out there and have settled for Sufferfest and VeloReality and both work fantastic with my setup. Never got the hang of Zwift, nothing wrong with it but just not my cup of tea.
Only tried the Ant+ connectivity as never got any bluetooth connection to work to my phone(MOTOG3) and haven’t had time to debug the issue. Love the smooth power transitions but noticed there is a but of resistance slippage when doing high watts and low revs. Like everyone else, mine suffers from ridiculous watt levels in ERG mode if your cadence drops low or if you stop pedaling for any reason.
No info on firmware – DCR is my go to place for info so ifnews is not on here, it doesn’t exist !
The pedaling analysis software is 8.99 US on the Apple App Store. At this time there isn’t a user’s manual available, waiting to hear from Elite when/If. At first I was only seeing one pedal and it took me a while to divine that you have to add another pedal and assign it a color via the pedal color option then save the configuration. Once that is done it seems to work. I haven’t had enough time to analyze the data to see how my pedaling strokes match up across a variety of cadence ranges and power outputs.
I got a messages from Elite support in Italian that points to this website that has a higher level marketing based guide to the pedaling software. You have to click around to find it.
“piccolo problema” :-)
link to elitesrl.zendesk.com
So far my second Drivo is doing fine. The first one arrived with case damage due to having been opened and repacked improperly at some point before I got it. Riding Zwift in normal mode is really smooth/nice and the trainer seems to respond to changes in slope very quick and smoothly. I am going try ERG mode tomorrow.
Jon – think something got mixed up in the link creation as you posted the password reset link ;-)
We would happily try that for you but you may not appreciate as such.
Is it a one off payment or subscription based cost ?
Sorry the support messages were in Italian and I got them mixed up. Here is the link to the pedaling software pdf. The drivo comes with a lifetime subscription to the My Training software and the $9 for the pedaling software license/use isn’t limited.
link to drivo.cc
Down loaded the pedaling analysis for Android and tried playing with it this morning, seemed to work great except I need to get the diagram to rotate in the correct position and don’t know how to figure out the angle to put into the app for the cadence sensor location relative to the crank to get the rotation correct, can’t find any directions on that – Does anyone have any links or directions for this? Right now my lobes are oriented almost completely vertical.
There is no user guide for the pedaling software. You might try the new elite forum or open a ticket with elite support with questions.
Here is something I got from a support ticket.
“The narrowing of the figure is the dead point of your pedal. The wider the narrowing, the better (more efficient) the pedal.”
Here is a pic of one of my better strokes
Pic above is before I started working on building more strength in my left leg and focusing on my form. I broke my left hip in a crash 14 months ago and my recovery continues. Here is a sample from today. Still seeing right leg is averaging 10-20 watts more than left but my form appears to be getting better.
Thanks Jon,
I posted on the Elite Forum.
Took me a while to get in there. Finally figured out your log in is not your user name from the My E training instead its your Email address then same password.
Here’s a screenshot from me playing with the app yesterday, I have the same issue as you with left leg weaker but not due to injury, just a bias. Its interesting how the trainer can develop these graphs without have a true left / right strain gauge. How does it know what power is coming from which leg?
Does the power data provided by the application for each leg relate to the sum between the push of one leg and the traction of the other?
The Road.cc review is out too (very late comparing to yours ;-)), interesting thing they note is that the unit doesn’t seem to transmit bluetooth & ant+ concurrently. That seems a bit odd?
I’m hoping it does though, since I use BT to connect to my iPad & use my garmin as an extra recording device of the stream.
Can you shed some light on this Ray? Planning on purchasing a Drivo in the next few days.
Thanks!
I’m not Ray, but I used to use dual BT/ANT+ streams on my Kickr, but since upgrading to the Drivo this is no longer an option. It is indeed one or the other but not both at once in my experience. I think the review is correct unfortunately.
Thanks Laura,
I just got a reply from Elite too, confirming the review. They say it’s a Standard from Bluetooth that doesn’t allow simultaneous transmitting of that signal.
Odd though, since I have multiple devices doing just that. Powermeter, cadence sensor etc. They all send both signals.
Since Bluetooth can only be picked up by 1 signal, only ANT+ is the only 1 that can be used if you want a backup data recording.
Ray great review, In there you said “And finally, here’s a session on Zwift, which is all about having variability within the ride file”
In the trainer road ERG there seems to be very little variance of the wattage. But in the zwift workout there’s huge variance +/- 50W at least.
Did you mean zwift lets you have that variability in ERG mode where trainer road doesn’t as much?
ERG mode works practically the same in Trainerroad and Zwift. So there is no much variance. Mentioning Zwift ride and variability Ray meant just riding around virtual roads, not workout mode with ERG.
Yup, correct.
Have you done any testing of the elite rampa on Zwift over Bluetooth? In freeride mode on the flats I can easily spin out my highest gear (50×11). There seems to be some problems with the bluetooth aspect of it. Have you noticed anything like that?
I’ve attempted to register with the “official” Elite forum site at:
http://forum.elite-it.com
but have not been able to login with my originally requested password, nor with my replacement password (for “forgotten” passwords). Has anyone had any success here? So far, I’ve only seen posts by “Admin”.
BTW, I got my Drivo in February (Clever Training) and have enjoyed a few Zwift sessions on it (e.g., Watopia Figure 8, London 8) via my IOS iPad connected to the TV, but have not tried an Zwift ERG workout yet. I have tested it with my-eTraining in ERG mode and have experienced the same “steep ramp-up” when upping the power (e.g., going from 150w to 200w) off the bike (the iPad is not within reach of the trainer), only to return to a 400-500w start up from 0 rpm. I suppose I might be able to avoid this by having the iPad in reach of the bike, but that will be a future modification. So, yes, I, too, am eagerly awaiting the FW update that will address this properly (the version on the download site is 7.2.0.77, dated 10/1/2017, of course!). I have not checked if my-eTraining has the smoothing option, but that is also an option.
Finally, an additional gripe is that my wireless LED’s were DOA. The power LED works fine, but when I took off the cover to check the lights, I found the BLE LED pushed off on one end and that the ANT+ LED was entirely missing (broken off?). I know Elite acknowledges this issue with other customers, but QA doesn’t seem to priority here. I’m not shipping this thing back to CT just for indicator lights!
Despite the above, I am pleased as a newbie smart trainer user (at least for Zwift in simulation mode) and am hoping for the best with regard to future FW updates.
I was able to login and post something to the forum tonight: link to forum.elite-it.com
I think the password I ended up using was the one I created when I registered the elite training software. Before I was able re-divine my password I was seeing a message in Italian:
“In the central system of Elite there is another password for this account, enter the correct password.
Forgot Password? Click here to reset it”.
Thank you for the review. My Drivo gives my Garmin 810 unusually high speedometer readings. It will say I’m doing 100mph at some points. It’s consistently higher. Any ideas what might cause this? I can’t find anything online about the issue. Zwift gets the proper speedometer reading. It’s just my Garmin devices that read incredibly high.
Thanks!
Never mind. It was addressed in an earlier post. Thanks.
Ray – quick question on the Drivo that I can’t seem to figure out. Is it possible to ride the Drivo in such a way that it mimics a fluid trainer power curve? I.e. the faster you go the harder it gets? I totally get how the Drivo works with Zwift. I also use TrainerRoad but I’m not a huge fan of ERG mode. I’d prefer to ride TrainerRoad and shift gears to react to intervals. Is that possible? Can I ride the Drivo in TrainerRoad without ERG mode?
Use the Elite phone app, go to trainer mode and select level resistance. Choose selected resistance. You get ur fluid trainer mode. ?
I select the level to zero resistance. My question is the resistance too high still at zero?
Thanks. As long as it is normal based on the power curve, it is good. Definitely this trainer is on the high resistance side compared to others.
My next leading question is slope simulation. Using the e-training elite app, slope simulation is way off with this trainer. Has anyone tried slope training?
I tested virtugo and the slopes were a lot more realistic than zwift. It might be more and issue n how zwift is sending the signal to my trainer.
What’s your trainer difficulty level set to on Zwift?
I set the trainer to 100%.
The slope was 6.7%. I weight 185lbs, with a 39-21 at 63 rpm, the power resistance was 286W. I might be wrong but that wattage seems high compared to riding outside.
10% slopes are out of reach inside Zwift.
hi ,it´s my drivo broken?
[MEDIA=youtube]WvuUtmL9QxE[/MEDIA]
Just received this trainer today (CleverTraining using Ray’s code) and I’m having a big problem with it. Anyone have some insight? Im having issues setting up the Elite Drivo as a smart trainer in Zwift. I can pair the Drivo with Garmin Edge 520 great. Green Ant+ light goes solid. I can pair the Drivo with TrainerRoad also. Green Ant+ light goes solid. I can also pair the Drivo with Zwift (the FE-C profile) but the Ant+ light never stops blinking. In Zwift there is no trainer difficulty slider making me think Zwift doesn’t see it as a smart trainer. Zwift gets the power numbers from the trainer though. Just no trainer control. Any ideas? I’m at a loss.
Remove all pairings (and close all apps), and try just the FE-C mode. Also, just to be sure, unplug the power for a second.
And thanks for the support!
I figured it out. Dumb mistake. In Zwift I was adding the Drivo as a “power source” and not as a “controllable trainer”. /doh All good now.
Yeah, add it as both, not one or the other.
In my setup I am using Zwift with the Elite Drivo just fine. Using the FE-C profile in Zwift via Ant+ and an Ant+ HR strap. Works great.
I also want to record everything on my Garmin Edge 520. I would prefer to have the Edge 520 read my Power2Max for power/cadence. In order to get speed/distance, I had to pair the Elite Drivo to the Edge 520. I know speed/distance are arbitrary indoors, but I still like to have this metric recorded.
It all seems to be working well but I don’t really know which power source the Edge 520 is reading. Is there a way to know for sure on the Garmin which power source it is reading when it has both a power meter and a smart trainer both paired?
Nevermind. The reason I paired the Drivo to the Garmin Edge 520 is that when I paired simply the Elite Speed/Cadence profile, I got crazy high values for speed/distance. After reading through this great resource I found that you have to divide your wheel circumference by 3.46 as per the Elite documentation. So my 700x23C normal wheel size = 2096/3.46=606. I’ll remove the Drivo Trainer profile from the Garmin Edge and add back just the speed/cadence profile and I should be good to go.
I have been suffering with the same Erg mode problems others have also. It seems to swing about for no reason and be unable to stabilise – you can see in the pic it goes from 279W to 356W when I am riding at a constant cadence. I have swapped between PC and Android device, Bluetooth and Ant+ and I have a USB extender putting the dongle within inches of the Drivo. It also seems useless for anything getting close to a sprint, which for me training for track and being time limited is a problem as my Trainerroad plans all have short 15 to 30 second efforts in them. Also the resistance at the pedals is higher than what is on the screen as it ramps up, it’s as if it loads up too high, realises it then backs down and accordingly undershoots and then dumps a load more resistance on you to start the cycle again. My workouts are calling for a max of about 560W currently and as I can hit about 1400W and hit 1000W without making any real effort I know the load is WAY more than it should be when I am struggling this hard with it. I liken it to riding though treacle
Mine is going back today but I am now thinking I will get it replaced with a Neo
After a couple of weeks I have decided to return my Driveo as well. My issue is the same as others- poor erg mode performance. I see a number of things- very slow response to changes in power. Often 5-10 seconds. If I start piling on the power quickly I often see the resistance (and power) go down initially rather than up. Then I see the power come to the average value that is commanded but it oscillates up and down by more than 10% for almost the entire 45 seconds of the intervals I was doing. My cadence during that time was reported as constant +/-1rpm. So, very steady cadence but power wanders up and down. And the larger the power step the worse it gets. Doing 15s intervals from 150W to 600W generate almost random numbers. According to Elite this is all “normal” and due to me not being smooth enough. I can’t see holding cadence to better than +/-1 rpm so I don’t agree. I think that their erg algorithm needs to be retuned. But it has been almost a year since release and no progress has been made so I have no confidence that it will be fixed any time soon.
Hello,
I am not sure that can help you but if you use 53/17 development +/-1 rpm variation correspond close to +/-10W power variation (20W envelope) . Furthermore with the variation of the rpm you create a force change (high or low ) which amplify the power gap. If you ease the pedal and you restart, you create a large power gap at the power sensor. So, your pedal smoothness play a role too. I use a Tacx Vortex and I have the same issue. To analyse and compare different ht you can calculate the average deviation (or relative) which is a good indicator. For exemple, always with my Tacx vortex I obtain this figure where the power is Favero Assioma Duo results. Each interval was 3 minutes (the power Tacx Vortex order is 320W but it is not the subject). T column is “std” and V column is average deviation.
Hoping to help
Ps Sorry for my English. I am French
Please help!! I have a Elite Drivo. I have ordered a Rose Bike Xeon 3100 Disc Di2 which has 10*135MM rear thru axle. The Drivo have adapters for 12*142mm rear thru axle. Will my new bike fit? Do I need any other adapters? Or will my bike be incompatible with the Drivoe? Please help me as I will need to cancel my order if my bike won’t work with the drivo! Thank’s a lot in advance!!
The fun of not going with the emerging thru axle standard. You really should ask the manufacturer link to elite-it.com
But this might work: (emphisis in might)
link to shopelite-it.com
Thanks Eli!! Give it a shot…
Hi,
i’m going to by a drivo in the next few weeks. I usually train indoor even in summer!
What i’m still deciding is how i’ll control the trainer: at the moment i only own a forerunnner 920 but i also have a notebook and a 2 years old ASUS Tablet.
My purpose is to create custom workout (with watts or Power Zones or with Incline) with some app and ride real Ironman Courses. But i’d like to register drivo data (power and cadence) with my forerunner.
The drivo will not be placed in my home but in a garage and I’d like to avoid to bring with me a notebook for every session with the drivo. Also after 15′ minutes of indoor training i’m usually a lot wet even in winter so maybe is not a good idea to touch a notebook’s keyboard or a tablet screen with wet fingers.
Got one of these today, seems OK thus far. Quick question which is probably more of a direct drive question vs. wheel-on. Is it normal for it to feel more ‘mechanical’ through the pedals. It’s like I can feel the interactions between the chain, cassette and sprocket more than the wheel-on trainer. OR should it all be as smooth as a wheel-on variant?
TIA
Generally speaking most people find more realism in a direct drive trainer.
However, I find that ‘feel’ is pretty subjective. I can put two well respected industry folks (that really understand trainers) on two different trainers side by side, and both will end up with totally different opinions.
The backup/ support from Elite for this trainer is good in my experience. I lost the little silver road bike axle adaptor off mine, when I moved it. My own fault to be fair.
I emailed Elite on Friday, their European base is in Italy, and a new one arrived to the office today, Monday in Ireland.
So thank you Elite
Is the Drivo oil filled like the muin?
I want to be sure the power numbers on the drivo match my power numbers on my quarq…where can I read more about controlling the drivo with my garmin 510 head unit (which is paired with my quarq), or am I thinking about this all wrong?
I’m not sure about how to do it with the Garmin, but you can do it easily enough in Zwift. Just choose the Drivo as the Controllable Trainer, but choose the Quarq as the Power Meter. You will see the power numbers from your Quarq, and those are what will be used to control your workouts. It will adjust resistance on the Drivo to keep the power numbers from your Quarq on target, and you will be recording the power numbers from your Quarq, so it should all match up with an outdoors effort.
Ok. That sounds very easy. I use trainerroad…same for that?
Thanks for the reply!!
I believe so from what I’ve read of other people’s postings. I haven’t used TrainerRoad myself. Should be easy enough for you to check if you have it already.
Hey Ray,
Have Elite got any firmware/hardware changes in the pipeline on the Drivo for winter 2017/18 that are being announced at Eurobike? Interested in getting one for the winter but don’t want to if they’re about to update!
Thanks!
No further changes planned on the hardware side. Not aware of any notable changes to Drivo, except addition of Bluetooth Power Control Standard.
Hi,
Hi ,
yesterday i got my new Drivo, its my first Elite trainer so i have some problems do unterstand the settings.
What means circumference in REAL software / Bike profile? Does it means the the wheels size? If yes-why i have to do this setup-because i havent a back wheel with Drivo.
I also paired the Drive with my Garmin Edge520. If i open the sensor settings from Drivo at the Garmin Edge520 / area “Sensor Details” i also can type in the wheels size. Is it important to type in a wheels size in the Edge 520 to see accurate speed values or are this setting directly at the Edge520 unimportant?
At the Edge 520 / Sensor Details i also can type in the bike weight – its important to type in the weight from the bike or not? If important which weight i should take? Weight within back wheel or weight without back wheel?
The instructions in the manual from Elite are….hm…terrible
Thanks for sharing your experience
Hello Ray,
I’ve got a question and I feel you are the only person that could answer this honestly.
The optical power meter is indeed accurate but the Drivo uses 2x drive belts within the unit.
Will the tension of these belts affect the accuracy of the power meter? If the friction losses of the belt change during long term use surly the optical sensor will be subject to variations in transmitted power, sorry I’m an engineer and that’s the way my mind thinks ; )
Would love to here you’re’ opinions, you are definitely the most technical when it comes to trainer reviews.
Belts tension doesn’t matter at all because optical sensor measures power before all those factors have impact (it’s as close to the bike as possible, in the hub, just next to the cassette; it’s not in the resistance unit). It’s the same as your bike chain cleanliness and lubrication doesn’t affect crank based power meters readings.
I got this from Elite.
“Concerning Drivo hometrainer I confirm you that the drive belt tension is essential to assure the correct movements transmission and a correct power measurement.
The tension is always 100% calibrated and checked by our CQ dept and in general it is not necessary to modify it.
For any further information you need, we are at disposal
Best regards / Cordiali saluti
Marta Simioni
Customer Service
Elite_it”
Hi All,
First time commenting here. In your review (and others online) it is stated that the Drivo needs no user calibration or spindown. I just purchased a Drivo and then saw what is copied below in their forum from an Elite Admin. (before you read I’ll state my question – would this change your recommendation/review of the trainer? I am still able to exchange for another option and one of the things that attracted me initially was the lack of needing to calibrate – now it seems like the Neo is the only option with that feature.) Thanks!
Postby Elite Admin S » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:12 am
Hi
Absolutely, it is also a good habit to calibrate it about every month ;)
Run the app my e-training, do a ten minutes warm up, then open the advanced configuration and run the guided calibration.
After the calibration, you should have a very precise reading
Let me know if all goes well
aitorm78 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:20 am
Hi. I find it a bit weird. I understood that the Elite Drivo self-calibrates and does not support external calibration commands. Is not it?
User avatarElite Admin S
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:18 am
Re: Drivo calibration ?
Postby Elite Admin S » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:40 am
Hi
I think there has been a misunderstanding on this topic.
It is self calibrating in the sense that it doesn’t need an external power sensor (as it has its own).
But you need to give it the command to calibrate.
Regards
Re: Drivo calibration ?
Postby jbroussia » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:31 am
I don’t see any calibration option in the advanced configuration screen in My e-training app ? :oops:
Re: Drivo calibration ?
Postby Elite Admin S » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:03 am
Please do again the configuration and don’t select any external power sensor during the configuration.
Then check if the calibration option appears.
Regards
I’ll also add – I followed the last instructions (in the Elite thread I posted above) and was able to send a calibration command via the phone app and it performed a spindown similar to my tacx vortex.
Hi DCR,
first of all thanks a lot for your effort and service.
I’m impressed in particular by your comparison of the Power Tap P1 and Quark powermeters with the Elite Drivo’s. They all semm to show very similar measurements.
On the other hand this is astonishing to me, cause the Drivo takse the measurement “downstream” the chain and the two others “upstrem” the force-flow (P1 @ pedal axis, Quark @ crank/spider. Considering this I would expect the Drivo data roundabout 10 W reduced, as this is a typical magnitude for chain+gear friction losses.
This Topic is certainly not specific to your test or trainers, but generaly relevant for comparisons of powermeters as Long some of them measure in the rear hub (e.g. Power Tap G3).
On the other hand it is of significant relevance for ergometers/trainers, that claim to officiate as reverence regardingy calibration tool for other powermeters. How do “they” deal with this?
Do you or does anybody know somthing about? Or do you think it worth a question to Elite?
Best Regards from Germany/Munich
Thomas
Newsflash
Elite have removed our access to premium features of the desktop app even though it got sold with lifetime subscriptions now they published the new desktop software.
They now claim that it was only access to the app that was lifetime, not the desktop. Such a backwards move, makes me feel sorry i have bought one if that is the business practice of this company.
Has anyone been able to challenge this?
Ray – do you have inside track with elite to find out what the scoop is as the admins on the board are playing dumb?
Yeah the other day I tried to use their app to do pedal analysis and gave up after the subscription requirements. Just came across as cheap when you are spending so much on a trainer in the first place.
I thought Elite said it was included on Drivo/Kura, but not for other lower end trainers?
Seems they are denying that was the case. However forum admins are at this point refusing to answer any questions on it. There are various postings from people asking about their drivo subscription.
The current position is – only the app is covered, not the desktop.
They also not releasing my postings on it in the forum, Stuck at moderation, guess elite trying to avoid too public a discussion on this . Guess it’s twitter time !
Hmm, I’ll circle back. I’m 99% sure it was planned to be included on Drivo, and 90% sure on Kura.
It’s a bit confusing. I think either way the pedal analysis is extra. (I haven’t played around with app vs. desktop so perhaps ignore me here)
Appreciated.
on thread discussing it :
link to forum.elite-it.com
correct – pedal analysis was never free, but the desktop was lifetime. It is now also no longer possible to play the alp d’huez video or any other purchased content without paying the license.
No chance though, i rather pay the guys from veloreality who are the most friendly and responsive bunch i met.
As buggy and clunky as the previous windows desktop version is/was I don’t think I want to invest more time with the new version. Being forced to pay for it just makes it easier to move on. I can re-calibrate using the iPad version. The Alpe D’Huez video is old and of mediocre quality. There is also a resistance bug in the player; if your profile uses LBS it fails to convert them to KG correctly.
I purchased the pedaling software for my iPad when I first got my Drivo. It was interesting to look at for a while but doesn’t offer me much value. It is pretty hard to make any improvements in you pedaling without having real time feed back during a workout.
Kind of agree, but on the other hand not interested in letting companies getting away with it that easy. They have not released a single firmware upgrade to fix some of the crazy erg behaviour and then when they release new training software refuse to honour their commitment.
Very telling is that elite are moderating out any conversation on this topic on their forum. There is a feature that shows three last unmodded posts and you could see lots of them on this topic. They never make it to the real forum ;-)
Quick update :
Elite help desk just responded to ticket I raised. Elite are sticking to their guns that desktop was never a lifetime subscription. Ah well time to permanently move on from them then. No chance I am giving them extra after spending a grand on a trainer.
Great example of how to lose future sales of high end equipment for a miserable 20EUR a year
Interestingly, while I haven’t used the desktop version for a long while, I just tried it and it still works, perhaps because I bought the Drivo in January last year? For folks that find it not working, have they owned the Drivo for over a year?
Thanks Steve, Elite released new platform last few weeks. I guess you still tried to use the original version?
I haven’t tried the old version – wiped it out when installing new on, guess could try to reinstall. Feels like time to move on as Jon stated. Veloreality SW and videos beat the elite ones by a mile, especially when trying to pair this all with 4Kscreen.
Yes, still using the old version. I was asked if I wanted to update to the new version when I opened it and opted not to based on comments here so perhaps it is the new version that requires annual subscription.
Sorry, I got some clarification on this but hadn’t had the time to circle back on it.
Elite is saying that the specifics of the ‘bundle’ was that Drivo users would get free lifetime access to the MyETraining app, but that it doesn’t include the pedaling analytics portion, which is a one-time in-app fee of €8.99.
I don’t have anything I can find one way or the other from them in writing on the pedaling fee portion in relation to the app being free.
I know there has been a lot of discussion about this lately and I have a point worth making, albeit opinion. I too was under the impression that the desktop software was for life but when I pulled up my old activation code it says “LIFETIME FREE SUBSCRIPTION FOR MY E-TRAINING APP” (not yelling, it was typed in capitals). So I don’t see where the confusion is happening for others (although I started my desktop last September and it still works).
But here is the opinion part. The desktop and phone software is really lousy! Unless you use the desktop for HD videos there are sooo many other options that are much better. I am currently using an app called ICW – Indoor Cycling Workout on my Android phone. The key benefit with this app is that it is NOT a supcription, $4 one time fee. You may have to pay a bit more for certain programs but that is not a big deal in my mind. The Real kicker (LOL I won’t explain that pun) is that it let’s you train by percent functional power similar to Trainer Road for a one time fee. The biggest drawback is that you have to create most of the workouts on your own unless you like the ICW selection. To me this makes sense because I have a hard time wrapping my mind around paying $12 US/mth for a software worth about $40-50.
No worries Ray – thanks for the follow up!
Sidebar though, wasn’t really focused on the pedaling part ( think that was JoeBlogs mentioning it ). It is more the fact that the new desktop software is no longer accessible for us original purchasers whilst they never mentioned access to that was time limited.
Elite seems to purposely mix the two up in their statements so that people are confused.
The desktop software was fully accessible without any voucher codes and delivered activated on CD. There was no voucher needed to get full access. The mobile platform app itself required extra activation via the voucher.
As stated they have either lost the original marketing folks to remind them what they did a year ago or worse, they are willfully misguiding folks. Either way, as said time to move on and leave it to rest. Worst things to worry about ;-)
Happy training all !
Yep, same here, got the response that the activation included with the trainer is only for the mobile version of the app… Not sure what the idea behind that is, as they are identical products. Ah well, at least it works on both iphone and ipad. A bit bummed to find out you still have to pay for each of their realvideos though… Ah well*2, I guess I’ll just stick to zwift :) – or might try some of the user videos.
My free subscription code with my 4 day old Drivo says “LIFETIME FOR MY E-TRAINING”. No mention of it being just for a phone, so I assumed that it was also applicable for the PC.
The iphone app is working OK other than having to buy the pedal analysis software, but the PC version won’t let me use the pedal analysis without having first bought the annual subscription.
I was surprised to find that my Element is working almost perfectly with FE-C to control the Drivo. Only hiccup is the speed read, but that probably needs the x3.46 adjustment on wheel circumference.
I’m just setting up my Drivo. And, the software isn’t Mac/OS compatible! I’m surprised I didn’t read about this in any of the reviews I read online. I went as far as to create a Virtual Box on the Mac that allowed me to download Windows per the Elite website recommendation, and now I’m getting a message saying the CD is corrupted and I should get a new copy. Super annoying.
They released a Mac version you can download online.
To further Ray’s comment, the link for Mac download is here: link to elite-it.com
This trainer do need a calibration and can be done via garmin or elite app. Got false values
I ran a test on my drivo with power resistance set to zero. I was able to put 320w pedaling the 53 11 at 90rpm. I could even sprint. I know there is supposed to be some resistance in the unit but is normal to be this high?
This is not “zero resistance”, it’s level zero resistance which you should understand as minimal possible resistance. There will always be resistance on your trainer. What you’re describing seems normal. I checked Drivo power curve and minimal power at 53-11 and 90 rpm should be around 300W.
Thank you. That makes sense.
I commented somewhere that I tried Virtugo and the slope realism seems much better compared to Zwift. At least for me.
This is what I wrote :
ZWIFT.
“I set the trainer to 100%.
The slope was 6.7%. I weight 185lbs, with a 39-21 at 63 rpm, the power output was 286W. I might be wrong but that wattage seems high compared to when I ride outside.
10% slopes are out of reach inside Zwift.”
The root cause of my problem was the connection. After using an USB cable extender next to the trainer, my Elite Drivo became alive.
I am Glad I learned about Zwift analyzer. My problems are gone now. Riding with this trainer specially in Sim mode is just awesome.
Trainer should mandate using an USB cable or put chip amplifiers for stronger signals.
Thank you.
So was the issues of erg mode causing power response delays been sorted? Anyone knows?
I looked into it and it seems it is a combination between the flywheel energy and trainer road not processing all the raw data. Saying that, the problem is not isolated to the Drivo either. The hammer and Wahoo have the same issues. Training at VO2 Max, repetitive sprints or higher ftp variations. Steady power works just fine.
Trainer Road recommended to use the small ring on a high gear to decrease the flywheel energy and large power variations. It is not perfect but it is working great for me now. Currently, I am riding a lot stronger on the road.
During road simulation Zwift. The Drivo is the best feeling trainer out there.
Able to pick up the drivo for $970 or the directo for $800. What would you recommend?
Thanks for the input.
^^^ and i can pick up a Kickr or Drivo for same price (£800 UK), which one would you pick!?
Brian, in my non expert opinion, i’d go for the drivo over directo as it can simulate higher gradients which might be important if you like doing any VR rides of steep alpine passes, or want to accurately have the Zwift radio tower steepness.
From what i have read, although a trainer might say max 14% (in the case of the directo) it cant always replicate this at lower speeds. Also bigger flywheel on the Drivo. But if max slope and realism of steep climbs isnt important (it is for me) then id go with the Direto
Usually, I scoff at unboxings.
But today I was rearranging my storage and trying to get my Drivo back in action after a few months off, and I couldn’t find my power supply. I found one in a box full of similar items, and was able, by comparison to your pictures, to prove that it was the right one.
So, thanks!
Dirty secret: The very specific reason I include the power meter adapters in my trainer unboxings is exactly what you just noted…but…for myself. :)
I’ve since started cutting out a tiny bit of the manual that shows the logo of the trainer and then taping that to the charging block, allowing me to easily figure out who is who. I did that after I fried a KICKR one year.
Have been reasonably happy with my Drivo. After about 10 months of regular Zwift sessions the belt felt like it was slipping while out of the saddle above 250 watts. I contacted Elite support and they sent me the belt tension adjustment process. The tension adjustment is easy and they have you do a recalibration after the adjustment. So all is well and I turn off the Drivo. When I turn it on a few days later I hear a series of grinding sounds during poweron that I had never heard before.
I contact Elite support and they had me send them a video of the tension adjustment motor running during powerup, this requires opening the case. Elite support then run a diag program via a remote session on my Windows laptop connecting to the Drivo via my ANT+ dongle. The diag determined my control board has some form of failure and it has to be replaced. Elite is going to send me a replacement board and I assume they will have to do some form of calibration or check again when I replace the board.
So maybe this is a fringe case but my Drivo is probably going to be down for a couple weeks during a time I would be using it daily. Elite Support has been responsive but the reality of the timezone difference between the
west coast of the US and Italy is very apparent. There will also be the delay of shipping a new board, from I assume Italy, and the time it takes to pass through USA customs and arrive at my door step.
Thumbs up to Elite support, they sent the replacement board via DHL and it got to my door in 4 days. The board replacement was simple and all that was required afterwards was to run the standard calibration process from my iPad. I just completed a Zwift training session and the trainer worked perfectly and there was no sign of any belt slippage. While I had the case open I also lubed the drive belt with lithium grease so the trainer is as quiet now as it was when new.,
Hi Ray,
I’m looking for a recommendation here,
recently I’ve upgraded to Tacx Flux but it’s faulty within a week.
Prior to that I’ve got a Tacx Flow, it returned it twice before I got a working unit.
Now I don’t want to go through the same thing,I wanted to swap the Flux for Direto or Drivo.
Currently the price difference between Direto and Drivo is only £25 in the UK.
Should I go for the first version Drivo or Direto?
I know that Drivo has been superseded by Drivo 2 but the price difference is too much for me to pay.
I’m in the same situation, my third flux is going back to Halfords and I’ve gone for the drivo to replace it. When my gfs flux bites the dust I’ll do the same (its only a matter of time) , I’m sick of fluxs!
What led you to go for the Drivo over the Direto if I may ask. I’m trying to get my first direct drive trainer and trying to figure out which is the better option Drivo1 or Direto? Thanks.
How do I print a report?
Hi all,
The drivo is on sale on Amazon for around $671. Should I pull the trigger or suck it up and get the Kickr or Neo Smart 2? I plan on riding the trainer for 3-4 days a week at 1-2 hours each time.
I’ve had my Elite drivo for close to two years. I use it mainly during the colder months or foul weather, with Zwift. No problems here. I haven’t kept track of pricing, but if that is still well below the going price, assuming it is a reputable seller, I’d go for it.
Hello,
I have a problem with your graphics in erg mode 30×30 on web page vs the analyser because there aren’t the same ?
I think the web page graphic is a smoothed graph (x second average ?)
In the analyser graphics, we can see huge variations (>100W) in the power as reported in a lot of following comments.
Your comment : “the above is a beautiful graph” is not true about variations but true about the good following between power meter and HT.
If you think it is an important point maybe you could correct this point.
The Elite Driveo is currently reduced in the UK from £1,200 to £589. Is this as much of a bargain as it seems, or is this trainer now outdated and the lower price reflects that?
Hi, I’m considering using my old bike which is an 8 speed shimano sora to use with this. Do you know if I could get an 8-speed cassette to work? Because I have heard 8/9 speeds cassettes are the same size. Would I just use the same spacers as if I was running a 9 speed? Thanks.
An 8 speed cassette works fine with the Drivo, I’m using one for my kid’s 24 inch bike, just use the spacers.
Hi Ray,
I have this Elite Drive model, like it very much, but for the first time I need to store it “in the upright position” so to speak, as you show on one of the pictures. Mine is not stable at all! Meaning that it cannot stay upright unless I lean it against the wall: but then I do not think it is a safe storage, especially if a kid tries to move it, it may… fall heavily on said kid.
I appreciate this was a long time ago but was yours stable?
It’s been a while as you noted (about half a decade), but no, I don’t remember it being terribly stable in the closed/upright position. Like other storage modes on other trainers, it’s mostly about consolidating the space and getting it out of the way.
Cheers!
Hi. I realize I’m asking this related to a 5+ yr old review…a lightly used Drivo popped up in a used market for under 500, and a new one can still be acquired on Amazon for 650 (USD). I’m looking to upgrade from a fluid roller Kinetic and am wondering if this unit is still a valid choice at those prices, or if newer devices have evolved enough for this to be on the obsolete for the price side of the fence. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
I’ve just purchased a second used unit for my gf. They are the best I’ve had. The direto is pants in comparison as are the tacx flux (all 4 units failed). Perfect accuracy, no calibration, great reliability, built like a tank.
Thanks for the quick feedback Matt – appreciate it! Definitely leans me in that direction.
I have had mine for almost 5 years, and I use it with Zwift. For an extra $150 definitely get a brand new one.
over used.
bought in March 2017, used it today – still works great, very reliable
Benjamin, that’s a bit of the struggle for me. If all reports are that they’re very reliable units, it seems a relatively low risk to purchase used, and put the $150 towards something else. (plus I think I enjoy the sense of ‘gamble’ from getting deals on used gear at times).
Thanks again everyone for the feedback.