Heads up April 2016 – Update! My Wahoo ELEMNT In-Depth review post is now available and published over here. Definitely swing over for all the details!
Wahoo has made their first entrant into the GPS bike computer world, with ELEMNT (it’s like the word element, but missing one ‘e’). You’ll remember their past bike computers (RFLKT & RFLKT+) which were driven by a connected phone and utilized the phone for GPS and control of the screens. With ELEMNT, it’s fully self-sustaining during a ride (no phone needed). Yet at the same time, it’s got much stronger phone integration than most other units out there.
I had a chance at Eurobike to go out for a ride with the unit, as well as poke at it a few other times this summer (and now have a beta unit to test). Of course all these units are/were prototypes/beta, and thus things are subject to change. Like any other pre-release product it may get better…or worse. As such, this isn’t an in-depth review but rather a look at the features and functionality. So…let’s dive into it!
Features and Functionality:
While the ELEMNT is first and foremost a GPS bike computer, it does more than just display data metrics. For example, the unit can display maps and routes, which are pulled from OpenStreetMap and 3rd party services like Strava. Additionally, it has a bit of a higher level of integration on the phone than most competitive units – allowing for features such as friend location display and complete configuration via the phone app. Plus, the pairing process is pretty cool and much cleaner than any other bike computer out there. Not to mention the sweet LED scheme on the unit for displaying intensity information.
When it comes to data display, Wahoo obviously displays your ride data. It can connect to both ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart sensors, such as heart rate straps, power meters, and speed/cadence sensors. As well as trainers and soon the GoPro action cam. But the ELEMNT arranges the data fields a little bit differently. For starters, you don’t configure each data page separately. Rather, you configure what is sorta a ‘list’ of prioritized data metrics. You can then increase or decrease the number of metrics during the ride on the fly. Higher priority metrics get displayed, and then lower priority metrics disappear. So you can see this below as I change from 1 field to 10 fields:
In the case of sensor-driven data, such as a power meter, the unit will automatically hide fields for non-connected data. So if I had a power meter connected normally, but on this one ride I didn’t, then it’ll hide those data fields.
You can create a number of custom data pages, it’s just that you can’t specify exactly where things will fit on that given page without doing a bit of a sizing Jenga puzzle. It’s certainly a different approach. I’m sorta half and half on it. I like the flexibility of increasing/decreasing data pages, and hiding non-connected sensors. But at the same time, sometimes I just want my data pages a certain way and don’t want an app thinking it’s smarter than me (even if it is).
When it comes to control, the unit has 6 buttons. Starting with two buttons on the right side. These are for increasing/decreasing the number of data fields, as well as changing options (like up/down).
On the face there are three buttons, these are context-focused in the menus, but during a ride they control the lap, pause, and page change functions:
And on the left there’s one button. This is for getting to the settings, and turning on/off the unit.
Speaking of settings, when you pair the unit to your iOS or Android phone it pairs very similar to an Apple Watch. This being that you point your camera at the QR code and instantly it’s paired. No funky relations with the Bluetooth control panel required:
Next in settings you can pair sensors – either ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart. For example, here I am paired to a Wahoo BlueSC cadence sensor via Bluetooth Smart, a power meter for ANT+, and a HR strap:
If indoors, you can rely purely on sensors for speed/distance, and turn off the GPS functionality. The unit is rated at 17 hours of GPS battery life – and will pre-cache satellite information to speed satellite acquisition times.
Within ELEMNT, almost all of the configuration is done via your phone with the ELEMNT companion app. This app acts as your hub for interaction with the unit. It stores your rides, allows you to configure settings on the device, and also allows you to setup Live Tracking and integration with 3rd parties like Strava.
Starting with the customization of screens, you’ve got the following main pages you can enable/disable:
– Lap Data
– Workout Data
– Climbing
– Map
– KICKR Control (when connected)
Then you’ve got custom pages you can add, each with their own data sets.
The data sets you prioritize from 1-10, thus allowing you to increase/decrease the data fields per page with a simple up/down on the unit. Any metric you like you can change:
Next, you can create ‘Profiles’. These profiles simply allow you to enable/disable various data pages in a predefined set. This is useful if you have different screens for racing vs training vs touring. For example, you may not care about a map screen during a race.
Moving to other app-controlled functions, you’ve got the ability to automatically upload to various 3rd party sites. This is done via either your phone (meaning, the ELEMNT is paired to your phone), or, via WiFi when in range. The unit actually makes the direct connection straight to the 3rd party service – such as Strava or Training Peaks. The full list is seen below, but it’s easy for Wahoo to expand as other sites add integration points.
The unit also displays smartphone notifications. You can enable or disable these in three categories: Phone Calls, Messages, and E-Mail, as well as simply activate a ‘Do not disturb’ function so that you aren’t annoyed by texts from your boss wondering why you’re not back from your lunch break yet….again.
The ELEMNT also has the rather unique ability to leverage LED’s for zone/intensity information on the top and bottom. These are like gauges that can show you current intensity for speed, power, and heart rate zones. The side ones are for showing intensity, while the top ones are for more status-oriented options:
Here’s how it looks on the unit – it’s very sharp and pretty bright.
It’s a really cool idea that doesn’t take up data field real estate on the display itself.
Finally, the unit can control the Wahoo KICKR directly. It can either specify a resistance/wattage level, or can re-ride past activities or downloaded rides. I didn’t have a chance to poke at this feature yet, so here’s a few screenshots from Wahoo on how it works:
For now, it’ll just control the KICKR/KICKR SNAP, but in the future they’ll implement FE-C trainer control for 3rd party trainers.
Mapping:
The Wahoo ELEMNT includes the ability to display maps, routes, and even where your friends are currently riding. The mapping uses OpenStreetMap (OSM), and the unit comes pre-loaded with the entire world.
The ELEMNT has routing capabilities, based on either past routes you’ve ridden, or routes that you’ve created with 3rd party services. It’ll automatically download any routes you’ve created with Strava, RideWithGPS, and MapMyFitness. Or, you can open .GPX file routes (via opening an e-mail, from iTunes, or even a Dropbox share). Pretty cool integration.
These sites are pretty easy to create routes, so the process is rather straightforward.
Once you head to your unit, you can see it listed in the routes section:
Then while riding, it’ll show you the route on the screen:
As you can see, the screen is black and white – but looks surprisingly crisp, likely due to the high contrast. With the ELEMNT you do have to plan ahead a bit on where you’re going, as you can’t just do it on the fly – such as entering an address. The ELEMNT gives you a breadcrumb trail to follow, and then notifies you if you’re off-course. It also will give you turn by turn navigation for apps/routes that support it.
The unit includes Live Tracking as well. By leveraging your phone it’ll broadcast your position automatically to a predefined contact list of friends and family. You just pick and choose which people you want to add.
Then when you start your ride they’ll get a link to view your current location. Tied into that is the ability to see other riders that you’re friends with that are out and about. This is shown directly on the unit itself, which is very cool. Especially useful in group-ride situations where your little peloton may have broken apart. It’s not yet enabled on the beta unit I have, so here’s what it should look like once ready:
Pretty neat stuff.
Size & Mounting Comparisons:
When it comes to size, the ELEMNT isn’t exactly the smallest kid on the block. But it’s also not the largest either. Its somewhere in the middle. For example, it’s a bit smaller in length/width than the Edge 1000:
Yet, it’s also a tiny bit thicker (depth) than the Edge 1000.
It’s basically the same height as the Edge 810, but has more bulk around the edges making it a touch bit wider:
And thus of course, it’s larger than the Edge 520:
It is smaller than the Polar V650, but larger than the Polar M450.
When it comes to mount, it unfortunately does not use the ubiquitous Garmin quarter-turn mount system. Rather, uses something very similar but not compatible. That means you won’t be able to use the numerous 3rd party mounts out there for the Garmin units.
To try and soften that blow, Wahoo is including a flotilla of mounts in the box. This includes an out-front mount, a triathlon/TT bike aerobar mount, and a handlebar/stem mount:
They’re also working with 3rd parties like K-Edge and others to get insets made to allow you to easily adapt your existing mounts for these 3rd party products.
Product Comparison Tables:
I’ve added the Wahoo ELEMNT into the product comparison tool/calculator, which allows you to compare features of the ELEMNT to all other products I’ve tested. For the purposes of below, I’ve compared it against the Garmin Edge 810 and the Polar V650 (simply because both have mapping) – but you can customize which products to compare against here in the full tool.
| Function/Feature | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 |
|---|
| Copyright DC Rainmaker - Updated April 9th, 2021 @ 10:29 am New Window |
| Price | $329 | $399 | $253/€220 |
| Product Announcement Date | Sept 15th, 2015 | Jan 7, 2013 | January 26, 2014 |
| Actual Availability/Shipping Date | March 1st, 2016 | Jan 2013 | March 2015 |
| GPS Recording Functionality | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Data Transfer | Bluetooth Smart, WiFi, USB | USB & Bluetooth | USB |
| Waterproofing | IPX7 | IPX7 | IPX7 |
| Battery Life (GPS) | 17 Hours | 17 hours | 10 Hours |
| Recording Interval | 1-Second | 1-Second or Smart | 1-second |
| Alerts | Sound/Visual/LED's | Sound/Visual | Sound/Visual |
| Backlight Greatness | Great | Great | Great |
| Ability to download custom apps to unit/device | No | No | No |
| Acts as daily activity monitor (steps, etc...) | N/A | No | No |
Music | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Can control phone music | No | | |
| Has music storage and playback | No | | |
Connectivity | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Bluetooth Smart to Phone Uploading | Yes | No | Not yet |
| Phone Notifications to unit (i.e. texts/calls/etc...) | Yes | No | TBA |
| Live Tracking (streaming location to website) | Yes | Yes | No |
| Group tracking | Yes | | |
| Emergency/SOS Message Notification (from watch to contacts) | No | No | No |
| Built-in cellular chip (no phone required) | No | No | No |
Cycling | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Designed for cycling | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Power Meter Capable | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Power Meter Configuration/Calibration Options | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Power Meter TSS/NP/IF | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Speed/Cadence Sensor Capable | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Strava segments live on device | Yes | Q3 2015 | No |
| Crash detection | No | | |
Running | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Designed for running | No | No | No |
Swimming | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Designed for swimming | N/A | No | No |
Triathlon | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Designed for triathlon | No | No | No |
Workouts | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Create/Follow custom workouts | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| On-unit interval Feature | No | Yes | No |
| Training Calendar Functionality | Sorta | Yes | No |
Functions | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Auto Start/Stop | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Virtual Partner Feature | No | Yes | No |
| Virtual Racer Feature | No | Yes | No |
| Records PR's - Personal Records (diff than history) | No | Yes | No |
| Tidal Tables (Tide Information) | N/A | No | No |
| Weather Display (live data) | No | Yes | No |
Navigate | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Follow GPS Track (Courses/Waypoints) | Yes | Yes | Planned |
| Markers/Waypoint Direction | No | Yes | No |
| Routable/Visual Maps (like car GPS) | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Back to start | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Impromptu Round Trip Route Creation | NO (BUT CAN CREATE ONE-WAY ROUTES FROM PHONE APP) | No | No |
| Download courses/routes from phone to unit | Yes | Yes | Planned |
Sensors | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Altimeter Type | Barometric | Barometric | Barometric |
| Compass Type | Magnetic | GPS | GPS |
| Heart Rate Strap Compatible | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| ANT+ Heart Rate Strap Capable | Yes | Yes | No |
| ANT+ Speed/Cadence Capable | Yes | Yes | No |
| ANT+ Footpod Capable | No | No | No |
| ANT+ Power Meter Capable | Yes | Yes | No |
| ANT+ Lighting Control | No | Q3 2015 | No |
| ANT+ Bike Radar Integration | Yes | Q3 2015 | No |
| ANT+ Trainer Control (FE-C) | Yes | No | No |
| ANT+ Remote Control | No | Yes | No |
| ANT+ eBike Compatibility | No | No | No |
| ANT+ Gear Shifting (i.e. SRAM ETAP) | Yes | | |
| Shimano Di2 Shifting | Yes | Yes | No |
| Bluetooth Smart HR Strap Capable | Yes | No | Yes |
| Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence Capable | Yes | No | Yes |
| Bluetooth Smart Footpod Capable | No | No | No |
| Bluetooth Smart Power Meter Capable | Yes | No | Yes |
| Temp Recording (internal sensor) | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Temp Recording (external sensor) | No | No | No |
Software | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | PC Application | N/A | Garmin Express | Polar Flowsync |
| Web Application | N/A | Garmin Connect | Polar Flow |
| Phone App | iOS/Android | Garmin Connect (iOS/Android) | - |
| Ability to Export Settings | No | No | No |
Purchase | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Amazon | Link | Link | Link |
| Competitive Cyclist | Link | | |
DCRainmaker | Wahoo ELEMNT | Garmin Edge 810 | Polar V650 | | Review Link | Link | Link | Link |
Again, you can make your own product comparison table here, using the full tool.
Availability & Pricing:
The ELEMNT is slated to be available by Black Friday (the day after Thanksgiving in the US, so November 27th), but could also ship earlier. Meanwhile, ordering will open up tomorrow (Wednesday, September 16th) for the unit.
It’s priced at $329US, so more expensive than the Polar V650, but cheaper than the Edge 810. Note that this does include all three mounts I listed above, within the box.
[Update note: Nov 20, 2015 – Wahoo has announced delayed shipping until January 2016]
Summary:
Overall the unit certainly looks very promising – and it’s great to see more competition in the GPS bike computer space. Wahoo obviously has a history of disturbing various athletic segments they’ve entered, starting with sensors, then trainers, and now GPS bike computers.
The ELEMNT has some new and unique features not found elsewhere, such as the LED bars and friend tracking (on device), as well as far more comprehensive integration with 3rd parties around saved routes. On the flip-side, it currently lacks a lot of the structured workout capabilities of its competitors, or the more advanced on-the-fly destination input that other companies have as well. There are also some areas, such as Strava Live Segments, that are on the roadmap for enabling in Q1 2016.
Once the unit starts shipping I’ll do a full in-depth review. But obviously at this point it’s in the beta stage (though fairly stable in most areas), so it’ll be a bit of time until their expected shipping timeframe in November January. Nonetheless, expect to see me using it here and there over the next few months within various posts. So keeping an eye on the weekly ‘5 Random Things I Did This Weekend’ posts is probably a good idea.
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With that, thanks for reading! If you’re looking to burn a bit of time, here’s all my Interbike 2015 posts!
The mount looks quarter-turn-compatible, like the RFLKT was (well, with a tiny extra housing). How is it different?
What about android support at launch?
Unfortunately doesn’t fit. Yes Android app at launch (I already have it too).
having an “independent” computer will probably crash less than their Android/RFLKT software. Looking forward to the full review.
Isn’t it on a K-edge quarter turn mount in the first pic though?
Someone test this to be sure, but I am willing to bet that any Garmin 1/4 turn mount that can be rotated 90* will work with this device. Wahoo’s may click in more securely, but the size and shape are roughly the same, with glaring difference of 90*
Someone needs to create a wahoo to garmin mount adapter. Sign me up for one that has a gopro mount underneath.
Already out at link to acecosportgroup.com
Do you know if it is possible to move (converted?) Garmin Topo maps to the device?
During summer holidays the gravel/forest roads are not available in OpenStreetMap so the map function would be useless when i need it at most.
Hi Bart,
We don’t have support for user maps, we do store and display ALL roads/tracks/paths from OpenStreetMap data, its not a subset of the data like a lot of places. OSM is improving all the time and we will ship regular updates, if the demand is there we would definitely be open to supporting other map sources.
Thanks for the quick reply.
In the Netherlands it looks like OSM has all the roads so that wouldn’t be a problem.
However Sweden and Norway is totally different. All the main roads are in OSM but a very large amount of roads (>75%?) is gravel car roads and that part is not (yet) covered in any OSM layer. These roads aren’t the best for racing bikes, but for normal bikes and MTB’s they are great.
All these roads (and even smaller)) are covered in the Garmin Topo maps (mine are almost 10 years old) so thats why i asked the question.
Before all these roads are covered within OSM will take some time.
Great product however, can’t wait for Ray’s complete review.
I would be very interested in where/who provides the core data for Sweden and Norway, normally its a single company in each country that then licence the data, OSM data is obviously different. Have you seen the data on any other sites? (Google/Microsoft)
Can you provide me with a couple sample GPS locations? Maybe even some photos of the data on your Garmin? I would love to look deeper. You can email me, murray@wahoofitness
I will contact you by mail with screenshots from Garmin Topo themself.
But online both Google maps and Microsoft Bing seem to have the roads covered.
Garmin had the maps online in the past (for preview) but not anymore.
(Garmin is superior in any case but both Google and Bing maps would satisfy)
For others interested i will post 2 examples where the huge difference can been seen.
Example 1 (border Norway/Sweden near Charlottenberg):
Google: link to google.nl
Bing: link to bing.com
OSM: link to openstreetmap.org
Example 2 (Zweden near lake Storsjön)
Google: link to google.nl
Bing: link to bing.com
OSM: link to openstreetmap.org
I think that it would be a bonus to have them accept Garmin maps. I have their Topo map for Canada as well as the Backroad Mapbooks BC maps which have more information than the OSM. Being able to use those maps would make transitioning from Garmin to Wahoo much more appealing.
This unit just sold itself to me hard, and is the final decider in my Neo / Kickr decision matrix too. Psyched. My Edge 800 is done and over with!
Instant reaction is that is looks hideous compared to a Garmin 520, but the features look really interesting and I do trust that Wahoo make a quality product.
The screen also looks blocky compared to the Garmin units.
This is a really different product for Wahoo and it will be interesting to see how well they maintain/upgrade the software.
Hi Ben,
It really does look awesome in real life, something Batman might have on his utility belt. ELEMNT has automatic updates over WiFi and we have a lots of cool features planned over the next year, you will see it be updated more like a mobile app than a traditional GPS computer.
The screen is black and white and has amazing contrast, we think it has the best visibility in full sunlight compared to any other computer on the market.
I hope a few features will trickle down to owners of RFLKT(+). Mainly notifications from texts and phone calls, so we can decide if it’s important enough to stop and respond.
+1 on this – I’m seeing many other devices (from Garmin, Polar et al) obviously having smart notifications) and I was hoping a firmware update to the RFLKT+ would also receive this….any thought there Mister Wahoo Murray Man….?
Its something we are looking at, RFLKT hardware precedes Apple’s notification technology, so its a little more difficult to implement. We working on it right now, but we are not positive everything is going to work. We will see what we can do.
Black and white with no grey scale? (Thinking more for map purposes)
Black and White, but I use several Half-Tone techniques to get some additional tectures.
I was really hoping that free/Wahoo-app based turn-by-turn directions would make their way to the RFLKT+.
Any chance we’ll still see that?
Just as a follow-up to your question. This is January 2016. I have the wahoo RFLKT+ and it does have the smart notification. Also if you have a Ride with GPS account, you can sync your route on your phone to the Wahoo RFLKT+ and it will give you turn by turn directions just like any of the high end computers will.
Any idea what GPS chip is used? GLONASS support?
The GPS Receiver supports GPS,GLONASS,GALILEO, and BEIDOU. We also use several Assisted GPS techniques to improve performance
Will the Wahoo Elemnt eventually support the new L2C GPS channel? I believe they have launched more than enough L2C-capable satellites; it’s just a matter of testing and approval before they start transmitting position data.
Wahoo Murray, please see my following question about L2C. Sorry for the double-post; I replied to the original question, not to your reply.
Sorry my knowledge isn’t great about the GPS sub-systems, but its my understanding that the ELEMNT supports the L1 frequency,. I will double check and let you know if the answer is any different.
Regarding hardware only, it looks like something that would have been introduced 10 years ago.
“Meanwhile, ordering will open up tomorrow (Wednesday, October 16th) for the unit.”, DCR, you mean September, right?
September…October…it all ends in ber. Sorta like drrrr… Close enough!
DCR, I assume you won’t be creating a blog entry for it tomorrow, can you at least make a comment when you have a CleverTraining link for us? (assuming they are shipping it)
Wahoo doesn’t allow discounting, hence no CT link.
Indeed, John is correct. Clever Training doesn’t sell any Wahoo gear since Wahoo won’t permit the DCR Reader 10% discount (they stopped about two years ago). Simple as that.
What’s the screen resolution? Seems to be in the neighborhood of the Garmins but eyeballing that off screenshots isn’t very precise.
I’ve had an Edge 1000 for ~6 months and while it gets the job done I’m still not over the moon with it. Route navigation / mapping globally + non-crappy power meter support are my main use cases. I don’t expect the ELEMNT to displace it for me out of the box but I’m tempted to buy it just to support the alternative. I’ve owned a RFLKT & + so I’m not expecting Wahoo to nail it on their first release, and probably have a lot of growing pains but I also think they’ll do a better job being a Garmin alternative than Polar and Magellan.
The screen is 240×400, the visibility is awesome and looks really crisp.
We learnt a lot from the RFLKT and the ELEMNT is a totally new and re-invented experience designed from the ground up.
Do you mean preorder opens tomorrow September 16th?
Visually it sort of reminds me of my old garmin edge 305 that I got rid of in 2011. The leds are a good idea though
The shape doesn’t bother me. Some of the modern garmins have an “inflated” look like the iMac.
Also notice we aren’t talking about hacking maps to fit 50mb of available space..
Thanks!
I’ve worked endlessly to fit WORLD maps onto ELEMNT, I have every Road, Track, Bike Path and even every Footpath in the WORLD build directly into the ELEMNT. Its taken over 50 versions and a custom map format to get 30 GB’s of OSM data into a GPS Bike Computer!
How long does an update take if there are 30G of maps…?
The raw maps is 30G, the compressed maps on the device is much smaller (2.5GB). When we update maps we only update data that has changed, so the actual required download is much much smaller.
I was kind of excited about it until I saw the lack of support for quarter-turn mounting. My new bike uses a proprietary computer mounting system that only accepts quarter-turn and a few other established standards; wonder why they went a different direction.
Another question: was total output (in joules) available as a metric? I know it’s not on the RFLKT+, so I was wondering if it was added. Also, what types of file output can you get out of it?
We use kCal for energy by default until you pair a Power Meter, after that the system defaults to using Joules as the energy unit. Right now we support GPX, TCX, PWX and CSV file formats, FIT will be added before release. As noted in the review, we also directly upload to a host of 3rd party sites.
(Meant to reply to the above comment, apologies for the double-post)
I love the RFLKT+, so I’m pleased to see an upgraded version being released, but I’m concerned about the lack of quarter-turn support; my Madone 9 has a somewhat unique computer mounting solution that uses an extender that only accommodates a couple of mount types. How would I attach this thing to it?
Is there any way to manually pull the activity files directly off the ELEMNT via USB or similar? The matrix in the review only shows Bluetooth and Wifi. I like to have the files for archiving and whatever workflow I choose for uploading or analyzing. Having to download them from some web portal would be a deal breaker (think MotoActv… shudder). I know for a lot of people, automatic uploading will suit them best, but I personally want the raw data files with minimal fuss.
Colin,
You may have a solution by now for your Madone 9, but if not, I designed a low mount and a straight mount for my Madone 9, and am sharing the designs with other Blendr mount users. The 3D printed mounts are available at cost from Shapeways.
Straight mount: link to goo.gl
Low mount: link to goo.gl
Regards, Kevin
I love the RFLKT+, so I’m pleased to see an upgraded version being released, but I’m concerned about the lack of quarter-turn support; my Madone 9 has a somewhat unique computer mounting solution that uses an extender that only accommodates a couple of mount types. How would I attach this thing to it?
Very nice product with some nice intelligent features. The Bluetooth and Strava integration looks very nice, Wifi too. But the only thing which looks a little bit outdated is the display.
We went for visibility over color/pixel count, just look at the photos Ray took, the ELEMNT display is substantially more visible, Thats the important thing right?
For mapping resolution is important so you can fit the road names on the screen
True but I think you will be surprised what we can achieve with what we have, we have specific goals with a mapping application on a GPS Bike Computer and these goals are very different to the goals that you might have a smartphone. We don’t try and replace the mapping power of your smartphone but instead complement it.
I’d say that for mapping, the ability to follow a route is key so if Wahoo manage this without getting lost then Garmin can have all the colours and pixels they like, many of us will ditch them in a heartbeat. The TBT function on the 810 and I’m told the 1000 is hopeless which makes the integrated mapping essentially view only and therefore almost pointless. Sadly, being based on OSM, the address search will be broken on the Wahoo unit as the address data on OSM is borked at the moment, at least in the UK.
Hi Murrey, I totally understand, I think I have to take a look to a real device to see if it fits. Thanks!
Say you are on a ride with a cue sheet (no one created a route on the computer. Its very useful to see road names so you can see where the turn is coming up. The demo image above with road names is ~280×450 so higher then the screens real resolution and doesn’t really show the names in clarity to be readable. Maybe its better in person?
Wahoo Mike here. Thanks for the positive comments. As far as the industrial design goes, Ray has a unit that has zero paint on the face of the product. They are just samples and look relatively flat. The production units will be much more polished.
I may get one just to support competition to Garmin. Garmin has great hardware but their software stinks and quality control is abysmal. I keep going back to Garmin because I haven’t found anything better that meets my needs. From my experience, Wahoo Fitness is much more responsive to customer issues.
I’ll take a more readable B/W screen over washed out color any day.
Mounts:
Just a couple things about our mounting system, Ray feel free to update the original post if you think its worth while.
Unfortunately, while widely availably, the quarter turn system used by Garmin is not a open standard and isn’t freely available for use by manufactures, especially other GPS Bike Computers.
We have done our best to design a modern, robust mount that we feel is stronger and more secure than other mounts on the marke. We are working with several 3rd party manufactures on supplying and retro fitting mounts for compatibility. For those who have niche requirement and happy to do a little modification its also possible to “massage” a Garmin female mount into accepting our mounting system.
Perhaps a better way would be if it were possible to “massage” the ELEMNT male mount to fit a standard quarter turn mount. This way one could still use existing Garmin units. Is that possible?
Perhaps someone will also quickly develop a “converter” but that will only add more bulk to the unit.
So I take it the Wahoo mount IS an open standard that you’re sharing for free to resolve the situation? Presumably Polar were not willing to share theirs either?
Here you go: http://www.dogearsgps.com
It adds a few mm to the stack height.
What do your friends need to be using to show up on the display? The same device?
Initially it will be other ELEMNT devices but we will quickly roll it out to our iOS and Android apps. We may even push out dedicated apps just for people wanting to keep in the loop but don’t need the full workout tracking that our smart phone apps provide.
Unit looks great, glad to see a nice alternative to Garmin. The Friends feature looks nice too but will need to include fb or strava friends because if limited to my friends who share the same unit I may have to change my current friends for a while…
Claude
Since y’all are keen on dropping vowels, will this feature be named “STRV NTGRTN”? :-P
How will it compare in terms of durability for mountain bikers? Glass type?
I see they have the same waterproof level as the 810, but in my experience dirt can easily lodge in the 810 buttons keeping a path open to let moisture in, ultimately killing the unit. I’ve opened mine out of warranty to find this is what happened. Thoughts here? Has it been tested much in that environment?
One thing I REALLY like about Garmin’s quarter turn mount is the one held on by rubber bands. In an MTB crash it gives instead of breaking things. Is there a mount like that? And Wahoo would garner SERIOUS cool points if they’d publish 3D CAD files of the mount so folks could easily experiment with their own mounts using a 3D printer. Lofty dream, I know.
Garmin’s software is so bad that these questions almost don’t matter…I’ll try it anyway. My 810 has refused to sync via the phone for weeks now even though my Fenix3 works fine. Driving me crazy.
–Donnie
I will need to get back to you on the Glass type, I’m not sure.
The buttons are sealed, no change of dirt getting stuck under them, I don’t know the IP rating but I will find out and let Ray know.
One of the mounts included is intended for cable ties… not rubber bands, but might work. You have a lot of questions that I don’t know the full answer, I hope you understand…. :)
I don’t see any problem in us providing the 3D cad files of the mount, I will see if I can get them published on our website or at least swing us a email at support and we can provide them.
IPX7
This is the main reason I’m willing to “just buy one” and try it…Wahoo responds to customers so very well.
I’ll hit up support for those files. Would love to have both male and female sides…then I could create my own compatible stuff and use it for other things, too (like the random time you’d rather have your phone visible instead…could print a male side and mate it to a phone case).
Also a happy KICKR, RFLKT, BlueSC and BlueHRM user!
Getting stoked…often have trouble seeing the 810 screen on trail.
–Donnie
I agree, being a Garmin customer it’s weird to see the vendor responding to individual comments. Garmin don’t even respond when hundreds of people complain and create a thousand pages of forum posts about a product, their usual response is to release 5 new products each with new problems to ignore :)
Hi Donnie,
The kens is polycarbonate with a vinyl screen protector.
I see in the comparison chart that you state now that the Polar v650 has power meter metrics (TSS/IF/NP) or perhaps the equivalent of them. This was listed in the V650 as TBA for a while now. Is this a typo or has Polar added the TP or TP-style power meter metrics? If they are on the V650, are they also on the V800?
I think it looks great. Very little glare and sharp contrast. I’m eager to see the final product.
I love the look of it. I’ve had so many garmin crashes during rides that I was looking for a reliable alternative.
If you need another tester please please let me know! :-)
(wahoo kickr, HR belt owner and more!)
Every time some company decides to be hipster and drop vowels, I will now assign whatever vowels / emphasis made the expression funniest in my mind.
ELEMNT is short for ELEM-NUT.
I’m a confirmed Wahooligan (RFLKT I & II, Wahoo 7-Min App, TickrX – and ALSO the Wahoo full kit from Voler – I mean I am MISTER WAHOO!!) and I can’t wait for this. So awesome it’ll be. Take my money, Chip H and team there at Wahoo!!
OK, Just a update on mounts.
I just got the OK from Chip that we can open source the mount design, we are still doing a few tweaks but we will publish the mount design for anyone to use freely. Email our support if you want early access but otherwise I will arrange both the male and female CAD designs to be published before the release, lets make a new more robust and truly open mount standard.
I knew you guys “got it” a lot more than other companies, but this is a game changing level of “getting it.”
Thank you so much for realizing the value in open sourcing things like this. I know a thing or two about this having been on the forefront of the open source movement back in the day, and it’s amazing how many companies miss huge opportunities like this.
–Donnie
Thanks for going open. I do wish Garmin would have done that. Now if we can only get the rear blinkie guys to do an open mount standard. In the end open mount standards are in everyone’s best interest.
As evidence … 10 years ago everyone had their own phone charging standards. Then people got forward thinking and decided to go to Mini and Micro USB. Everyone benefited as companies are unlikely to make that much in licensing connector standards. Better to increase overall adoption by making things easier.
They got forward thinking because the EU told industry to agree on a common standard, which would then become a requirement to meet electronics regulations. The industry agreed on USB (which left a little wiggle room for some less scrupulous vendors to take advantage of).
Boy that’s one ugly unit!
That’s what she said.
When following a route loaded from RideWithGPS, Strava, MapMyRide etc… will the ELEMNT display an elevation profile (i.e. show me what hills are are in front of me and behind me).. similar to what the Garmin’s do?
I
Yep, We have a dedicated climbing page with this information. Right now Strava doesn’t provide elevation data with Routes, but others do and we are looking at options to fill in the gaps when 3rd party providers don’t provide elevation data.
It would be great if you had more screenshots on your website.. I’d love to see what the climbing page looks like as well as greater detail on the turn-by-turn capabilities.
Does the turn-by-turn guidance include street names? (The DC Rainmaker screenshots make it look like just a breadcrumb trail.. a bit like the old Edge 500)
Hey Murray, excited to see the release! Hit me up for details on using the Ride With GPS elevations service, no need to roll your own as ours is fast, redundant and covers the entire world. Cheers!
Hi Bruce,
The UI for Routes and Navigation has happened only in the last 7 days and we are still tweaking and refreshing the UI based on feedback from our testers, We will release more details in the coming weeks.
Please make this integration happen with RWGPS — knowing what hills I still have left on my route are the reasons I stick with my buggy garmin…
Thank you Wahoo.. I see there are new screenshots on the ELEMNT web page
link to wahoofitness.com
For pairing, that’s actually a QR Code, not a bar code.
Personally, the overall size of the unit versus the screen size makes it look a little bulky and awkward and the screen customization is weird, but otherwise great review and looks like a solid product.
anyone want to buy a slightly used month old 810? i am seriously thinking or switching and i just switched from cycleops to the 810. The only deal breaker that I really have to think about after i re-read the review is the screen customization. I like my data the way I like it.
however, I have NEVER seen a company as responsive over a product as Wahoo seems to be. Garmin cab give two __its about their customer base after they buy a product. Wahoo actually gives me the impression they really care.
Christmas is coming maybe ebay is going to have a 810 for say soon…..
The screen customisation might seem strange, its different and we have spent a lot of time designing it, but it REALLY does work!
You can still configure it exactly how you want, if you want 8 pages each with a different number of data fields, thats fine, you can, but we also allow you to quickly zoom in/out on additional fields on each of those pages while you are on the road. Not only that, you can open the iOS/Android app and change data fields in real time, mid ride!
I’m holding out for an 820 that I suspect is coming.
Looks like pre-ordering is open already on the Wahoo website
I can confirm that it is open and it will take orders. Mine is placed!
–Donnie
The Garmin 520 seems to well positioned – the leader + plus compatibility with all sorts of add ons at $299 instead of $329.
That said the Garmin don’t support bluetooth smart – I wonder if there is more battery drag with the bluetooth.
I suspect the wahoo Elemnt will come down in price or throw heart rates monitors…etc.
I personally am a fan of Garmin’s on going millions of $$ support for a American Cycling team.
The Garmin 520 doesn’t offer nearly the mapping/routing ability. And the assumption is they don’t do bluetooth because they are a big booster of the proprietary ANT standard.
I think you’d find the ELEMNT and 520 are actually fairly similar in overall mapping ‘grades’, if you will. But just different. So if you were awarding features for points in map-related functions, they’d probably end up with similar totals, just different features.
For example, Garmin has a color screen and can (today) support various types of maps. Wahho doesn’t. On the flip-side, Garmin’s maps basically have to be funneled through using either their site to create, or a 3rd party site with USB access. So it’s more cumbersome.
Next, both have psuedo turn-by-turn (520 vs ELEMNT), but not to the level of something like the Edge 810/1000/Touring, with ability to specify a random destination/etc…
Then, if you look at something like ‘Back to start’, that’s on the Edge 520, but not on the ELEMNT. But on the flip-side, you’ve got LED’s which can be used for left/right directions on the ELEMNT. Again, different options.
As for ANT+, it’s pretty open. While BT connectivity is far better on phones, I think you’ll find that the communication standards on ANT+ for interoperability between devices/companies is far better. The power meter standard on BT is a perfect example of that.
I too saw the similarities with the Edge 520. I was planning on buying a 520, but now I’m torn between the two. The Garmin does look much better (we are getting used to those bezel-to-screen ratios), but the phone integration with the Elemnt seems very interesting. Then you have little quircks like B&W screen and incompatible mounts, but their UI seem very interesting.
It’s going to be tought decision. I just wish Wahoo would have made it easier ;~)
turn by turn not to the level of the 810/100/touring……..oh well there is the deal breaker. I guess I have to keep living with garmin where garmin = contrast? what is contrast? you people actually try to read these things when you ride?
Awesome entry into the Garmin dominated market. Hopefully this can move Garmin to start focusing on features which improve the user experience versus padding the marketing feature list.
Looks like this unit uses the same 240×400 Sharp memory lcd display as the SRM PC8. Having used a Pc8 for about a month now I can’t imagine going back to the poor contast garmin screens. The Pc8 screen is visible in all light conditions and easily in the dark with the backlight on. Kudos on Wahoo for selecting a similar great looking display.
The big wahoo on the front is a smart touch. I’m going to assume they’re planning on getting good logo placement when this starts showing up on pro bikes in races?
I like it, and I welcome more competition (especially since my Edge 800 is getting on a bit).
Two thoughts:
I’ll have to wait for the final look, but I’m not totally on board with the way this looks. A bit bulky/clunky IMHO.
And though I like the priority of data fields, I would also like the ability to have ‘fixed’ screens. The reason is that while riding I just look ‘bottom left’ (for example) because I know a certain field is there. If you reduce fields with this the position of everything lower in the order will change if I’m right. And I can imagine the frustration of getting tired and then at a glance look at the wrong field first every time.
Its no problem to configure any number of pages with fixed data fields, the zoom in/out just allows you to quickly add/remove visible fields on each of those pages. The ELEMNT remembers the zoom level for each page so if you don’t touch the buttons you have ‘fixed’ screens.
I also welcome the competition. Garmin devices have been market leading in the bike GPS field. Unfortunately, that has probably lead Garmin to it’s less than stellar software quality control.
I’ve never had LOTS of problems with my Edge 510 … just a few. At the same time Garmin Connect still has some kinks and I still can just plot a route in Connect and have it come up on my phone. Nor can I plan a route at all in my phone.
After 2 1/2 years of fighting Garmin devices and their bugs, primarily relating to the *consistent and reliable* pairing and syncing with Android & Apple smartphones, I pray this might be a product that will finally free me from that hegemony.
Any ETA on when the thisisant.com compatibility directory will be update with the Elemnt information?
Given the existing investment in sensors and devices, it would be good to know how robust compatibility will be upon shipping. This is a lesson learned from purchasing a Magellan/Mio 505, only to find out that implied sensor device updates never came.
The website won’t be updated until closer to launch, but today, ELEMNT basically supports all Bike related profiles.
Guess this explains why Ray had been so quiet on his podcast whenever the RFLKT+ was brought up, and why he stopped comparing new products to it.
Can you elaborate on the auto-update (is it automatic and mandatory?–e.g., I would hate forced updates just before a ride).
And also, can you elaborate on the roadmap of features — especially custom training sessions.
Look forward to mounting the ELEMNT on my bike.
I too would like to hear the plans for automatic updates. Garmin, with Garmin Express, is automatically doing this with no way to disable the updates, at least with the Edge 810. It would be a shame if Wahoo followed this behavior. If you have a unit working perfectly fine for your needs, it’s often not worth the risk of an update.
Was planning on getting the 520 but now I’m not so sure! Long time Wahoo fan and really like their attitude and support.
Congrats, Chip, Murray and the rest of the Wahoo team on challenging the standard with interesting new features and functionality. Hope ELEMNT lives up to the expectations.
Hi
Looks really nice. Does it support Strava segments like the 520?
Garmin has an exclusivity deal for several months on this so probably not yet :)
We will have live Segments as soon as we can, expect the update to be pushed out January 2016
Correct. Since Murray can’t say it – I can. :)
Garmin and Strava signed an exclusivity deal on the Live Segments, applicable until January 1st, 2016.
2 Wahoo Murray:
Do you plan to work with other developers, so they can add support for ELEMNT in their apps? Such as Ride with GPS, for example.
Right now we are working directly with Strava and RideWithGPS on tight integration to there services, we wanted to make sure the user experience was consistent and the best it could be. We may open up some parts of the API to selected 3rd party developers over time if we feel that they have something to add to the experience.
I really like the features and it seems like a well thought out device. I’d have already placed a pre-order were it not for the mount. I am using Canyon’s H11 aero handlebar/stem, and there is no way to mount the elem-nut on it (yet). Here’s hoping that Raceware fixes that dilemma :)
What I find really interesting here isn’t so much the unit itself, or the features, but rather the massive number of comments from people who desperately want a device not from Garmin. Ray, you really need to sit Garmin down and make them read this stuff (after all, you’re very influential now!). If Garmin had the quality and testing in place it would be impossible to even try entering this market, but right now people are considering buying this just to support an alternative ecosystem and that should be coming through loud and clear at Garmin that people are willing to drop features for stability and a responsive modern thinking vendor. As you noted at the end, Wahoo are disruptive in every market they choose to enter so lets hope that happens here too.
Personally I’d pay Wahoo to write a replacement firmware for my Edge810 that doesn’t randomly switch off mid-ride (bug in the Strava enabled firmware), no need for new hardware :)
Garmin doesn’t deserve to be “helped” in that way with how they’ve treated customers for THIS LONG. All you have to do is go read the product specific forums on GARMIN’S OWN SITE. So many “does anyone from Garmin EVER read these posts?!?” comments from people bugs that NEVER get addressed. It’s crazy.
Let Wahoo and any other competitor that wants to come take their lunch. I welcome it.
–Donnie
I’ve always received great support from Garmin. A human answers the phone, usually pretty quickly, and they’ve helped me out several times. I have a Forerunner 910XT that would not fit around my winter running/cycling jacket and Garmin shipped a longer wrist strap same day for free. Not at all their “fault”, but they took care of me. And I had a problem with it early on and they replaced it immediately after asking just a few questions and without a long verification process (I had registered it when I bought it, so that probably helped). I have experienced great support from Garmin. I am intrigued by the flexibility and iPhone-enabled customization of the ELEMNT — screens, profiles, zooming in and out on the fly, etc.
Lot of races I do happen in night. Is it possible to setup back light to switch on for 5sec every 2min ? Otherwise battery wouldn’t last.
Now they (Wahoo) have gotten a gps chipset in their mitts, Do you think they’ll have a go at launching a running watch too? Having sampled a few previous products that just work, I’d be up for pre ordering blindly.
Also looking forward for this new WaHoo ELEMNT. Price is a but of a disappointment, but untill now I’ve not been disappointed by Wahoo. It takes some time, but support is great.
Most curious about the real battery life…
Still a happy user of a kickstarter rflkt+
Really looking forward to this… The number of responses from Wahoo in this comments section is enough to make me want to buy one already. If the unit is even close to being as good as Ray’s initial thoughts suggest, then I am in.
I really like their idea of prioritising data fields – and that power (for example) disappear when the sensors are not there is a great idea (means you don’t have to set up alternative pages for different bikes etc.).
The only feature I will miss initially is Strava Live Segments – but that is coming anyway. Excellent news!
I see that you mounted yours on a K-Edge. Did you “massage” it as described by Wahoo in the comments? I am interested to know if you can still mount a Garmin after the trip to the masseuse.
The mount had been pre-massaged. :)
Fear not though, I talked with K-Edge today and they are over the moon excited to work with Wahoo on ensuring K-Edge options for the ELEMNT.
Wow – that’s a very interesting device there and a serious competitor for Garmin.
I particularly enjoy the Live Friends feature. That’s just brilliant when out riding with friends and doing a ‘Mini race’, which is something I reguarly do. This way you get a live view on the gaps and if it’s growing or shrinking. Sort of your own ‘yellow moto showing you the time gaps to the guys behind’ or your own audio-connection to the teamcar :-)
I usually ride with the ‘breadcrumb’ path on a Garmin Edge 705 and think Wahoo did a good job here.
Good price proposition, too!
Questions:
1) Is it possible to easily zoom in and out of the map while riding? That’s something you often need to do when following a breadcrumb on unknown roads.
2) Are the OSM maps updatable by the user?
1) The buttons on the side of the ELEMNT zoom in and out on the map, If you are in navigation mode the unit positions the user at the bottom of the screen and tracks your heading, as you zoom out we adjust the styling of the map to show the user in the middle and the map facing north so its easy to work out where you are and where you need to go.
2) The OSM maps will be updated over WiFi periodically.
Great – thanks for that swift reply!
The inevitable (paid) use by Team Sky will ensure these will be very successful with their fanboy market, even if seen to be a lesser product (e.g. stages)
OK, I have three questions:
1. Does it display WhatsApp messages or other notification center items from the iPhone?
2. How do I configure a wifi network, inside the mobile phone app?
3. Is it a micro USB port?
Thanks!
Axel
1. Today we only show native messages (iMessage / SMS), Calls and Emails (Native App). This is only because we wanted to reduce the noise, but we are open to allowing users to enable other types of notifications and I think WhatsApp is a great example.
2. Yes you configure the WiFi through the mobile app on iOS or Android.
3. Correct, Micro USB.
Thanks Murray! I would love to see if users can select the apps which will send out notifications.
LED Settings -> Play sound for… -> SUPER MARIO??? What is it?
I waited for Edge 520, but now it is hard decision between ELEMNT and Edge.
B/W screen and no touch for bike computer these days are fantastic, and i really appreciate this.
And price confuses me, Ray says it is $329, but on the website €379, what is a bit too much. (For this price i can buy Bundle 520).
By the way, is it planned to sell some kind of bundles? HR + Speed/Cadence would be nice.
In Australia the Edge 520 is $399AUD, the ELEMNT i is $499AUD on the Wahoo website. I’m keen to use something other than an Edge, but a $100AUD/25% difference makes it hard to justify.
Great, I am done spending money on another company making GPS devices :)
I am happy with my FRLKT+ device so I am looking forward to this.
It would be great if it somehow supported garmin maps as well, even though I guess it will be impossible.
Nice Review! hat it is not Garmin Mount compatible thus a knock out criteria for me….
“Matt
August 26, 2015 at 3:42 pm
On a side note… Will watch/bike computer manufacturers ever allow for BLE AND ANT+ sensor connections on one unit??? Is it really that hard to do?”
Haha, nice one Wahoo, leading the way!
Let’s hope other device manufacturers wake up to this.
Questions/requests to Wahoo:
Any possibility you might support multiple sensors of the same type, like multiple power meters, for comparison? From looking at the comments to the P1 review, there’s actually demand for recording and comparing multiple sensors of the same type! Currently you either have to have multiple head units, or the WASP and their iOS app, or (most elegant yet) an android phone with built-in ANT and the IpWatts app; this would be another chance to get ahead of what other head units can do. :-)
Any possibility you might support the Moxy SmO2 sensor in its native (not speed-cadence sensor emulation) mode? If possible, many of that one too, since it’s really useful when placing several of them over different muscles.
Any possibility you migh add graphs of data other than altitude, like heart rate or power?
We have a powerful Sensor Manager that does indeed support multiple sensors of the same type, however right now we don’t export that data, our primary goal is to provide the best data possible for normal use cases, exporting data from multiple power meters isn’t really a normal use case but maybe something we would look at.
We are working with several custom ANT sensor manufactures and we hope over time we will start adding direct support for these sensors, we will release more information about this over time.
We feel HR and Power graphs are not that useful on device with a screen this size, data is Synced to the iOS and Android app in real time and allows the user to view the full dataset mid-ride. However, if we do get enough demand and think it will improve the user experience than we could definitely look at adding graphs for other time series data.
Thanks. Great you’re answering questions here.
Sorry about the late reply but wanted to add +1 to Takura’s excellent suggestion for simultaneous recordings of the same device type. I usually ride with at least two power meters and I can’t overstate how many times one of those power meters starts going wonky at the most critical moment (typically in a last half of a TT or doing a long interval set). It would be very nice to be able to switch which power meter to look at mid-ride– and to be able to analyze the two data streams after the race. No other head units on the market come close to that kind of functionality.
With a barometric altimeter on board, will the unit display temperature? I can’t see any indication of this, but I really do hope so. I was literally about to buy a 520 today – I’m inclined to wait for this instead.
It certainly says that it records temperature from the internal sensor, as for displaying it?
Temp Recording (internal sensor) Yes
Yes you can configure the ELEMNT to display the temperature from the internal sensor.
Hi, quick question for Wahoo. Can you use it with multiple bikes? Different wheel szes? I have two MTB’s (27.5/29er) and two road bikes.
Can you set different profiles for each? That way I can keep track how many miles I have on each. So far it looks promising! Thank you.
I’ll ask again….
Hi, quick question for Wahoo. Can you use it with multiple bikes? Different wheel szes? I have two MTB’s (27.5/29er) and two road bikes.
Can you set different profiles for each? That way I can keep track how many miles I have on each. So far it looks promising! Thank you.
Hi Maxis,
I am still finding out exactly how that will work. I will keep you posted.
Just wondering if you ever found out the information about multiple bikes and the tracking of mileage on each. Actually, I keep track of mileage on Strava so as long as you allocate your ride to certain gear, it shouldn’t be any different. But, question remains on how many sensors you can connect to the ELEMNT.
Gosh! Waht happend to yout Edge 810? The display looks like run over by a tank.
It gets a lot of use…
Your 810 gets a lot of “use” you say? It looks like you get even angrier than I do when my Garmin Edge 810 quits working at a most inopportune moment.
Looks awesome to me. Once the Strava live segments arrive I can see me getting rid of the edge 1000 and moving over. The ability to ride courses that I have ridden before in real life on my KICKR is a huge plus. Will we be able to load courses that others have ridden and ride those on the KICKR as well, would be awesome for race preparation?
And another massive factor is that you just know with Wahoo you are going to get top class support as is evident from your guys presence here. Good job :)
RFLKT+ user here, happy with support but still waiting for development to fix the crashing app (iOS & WahooFitness app) after 3-4 hour rides… it’s been broken since April. That said, my other problem with the RFLKT+ is the battery. I’d rather it be rechargeable but if it’s coin cell, it needs some form of battery life indicator. Yesterday, I was running out the door a bit late for a group ride, just to find that the RFLKT+ was dead.
So battery life has been mentioned, but what about battery type. Is it rechargeable or a coin?
Says it’s USB rechargeable on the website.
“Includes a USB rechargeable battery with up to 17 hours of battery life.”
Interesting. I had problems with the RFLKT+ crashing on long rides as well, when I contacted Wahoo Support they told me I was the only person who had reported the problem. Reported it end of July.
My suggestion for this new product; don’t be a beta tester for them, wait for it to be out a year and see how the product looks then.
James, I contacted them in May and again in July that the latest update didn’t fix the problem. Both times they were aware of the issue and confirmed my suspicion that at it was a memory leak in the app. To get around it, I shut down the app around mile 50, and then restart it. Afterwards, I combine the activities before uploading to Strava using GoldenCheetah.
I’ve had similar problems with the Android app. I’ve even written code to merge my Garmin Touring and (multiple) Wahoo ride files before uploading to Strava, which helps prevent agains gaps and such.
More of a daily hassle is how long the Android app takes to ‘boot up’ since it loads all of my recent rides. I was told the only workaround is to clear the app data, which means setting up sensors, config, and RFLKT+ screens again.
David, you may have solved it by now, but the solution for the Wahoo Fitness app crashing on long rides is to set the app to auto-lap. It has something to do with the maximum iPhone cache. I have mine auto-lap at 1 hour, and it will now go forever without crashing.
Honestly the first time I’ve raised an eyebrow since I bought my Edge 500 ~3 years ago. I don’t think Garmin’s software has improved in that time. The ability to make device changes on the fly using an app is a seriously nice feature.
How many data fields are possible on the map screen? (With Garmin, only 2 which is really a shame).
Today its 2 fields, but its something i’ve flagged to review so it might change before release.
Even if it makes the map nearly useless while more than 2 fields are displayed, having the ability to just add a couple fields to get a quick look at them, then drop them back off sounds like it would be useful.
On Wahoo website under Specs battery life declared to be 16 hours (in Features: 17).
Is satellite app already available for features preview?
And what means Super Mario under “LED Settings” on app screenshot? :D
BTW, LEDs on the device is really nice feature!
Our iOS and Android apps won’t be available until closer to the release dates but we will post more information on our website over the coming months.
I forgot to mention, Super Mario was just a bit of fun we had when testing the buzzer performance on the ELEMNT, It is his 30th birthday after all!
Murray, thanks for the answer! Incredible support.
And please, please, leave Super Mario option in the release version! :)
I was so in the Wahoo camp for years, but got sick of how flaky the sensors were. After spending countless hours with their support I invested heavily in Garmin equipment and have been extremely happy. What a disappointing announcement from Wahooo, really happy I made the switch.
Great to see Wahoo here answering questions in person.
Any comments about the possibility of the ELEMNT supporting the Garmin Edge Remote to switch between screens?
I believe the Edge Remote is an ANT+ device.
Generally speaking, I find that Garmin software sucks but I do find the Edge Remote handy to switch between map, elevation and stats screens without needing to take my hands off the bars.
Looks like a great addition to the market! One question: any possibility that the Garmin Varia lights can be integrated into this? Would that require Garmin’s cooperation, or is that an open ANT+ kind of thing? Thanks!
Really glad to see Wahoo joining in the conversation and providing real engagement with people’s questions and concerns. I’m really happy with my Rflkt+ and I’ve turned several people onto using them as well. It seems to me that a lot of the functionality in the Elemnt could be ported over to that platform as well. It has been a while since I’ve seen updates for the Rflkt and I was beginning to wonder if the commitment was waning.
So my question here is whether Wahoo sees Elemnt as part of the line up or whether it is a replacement for Rflkt. I’m sort of hoping for the former but I would understand if the Rflkt didn’t yield as much as expected in the market.
1) Any plans for integration with Trainer Road? It’d be cool if I could upload my TR workout for my KICKR to the ELEMNT and just run it from there.
2) Can a Wahoo watch be far behind? ;)
With respect to Di2 integration, can a user set up the Elemnt to change pages via the DuraAce Hood Buttons?
This is an available setting in some of the newer Garmin units, and of course requires changes in the Shimano eTube settings.
Ray does a great pre-product launch summary, yet the fact that many of these types of questions are getting answered early sure brings a lot more confidence over other units already in the market.
Yep, IMHO this is the best feature of Di2 integration!
Will the unit support Shimano Di2 D-Fly integration? Not that I care all that much about displaying/logging gear information, but being able to switch data screens using the hidden buttons on the Dura-Ace hoods is super nice and the low battery warning has more than once helped me remember to put the bike on recharge!
Ohh, I see someone just asked this while I was reading through all the comments. Looks like the answer is yes, awesome!
Looks really, really interesting! Any view on windows phone compatibility, either 8.1 or 10?
Sorry, No plans for Windows support at this stage.
Ah, shame. Given that Garmin doesn’t, it could give you yet another unique… Might be worth investigating as it’s possible to run Android stuff on W10, and you can take advantage of the platform’s unique features with minor changes.
Awesome, a competitor to garmin. Functionality wise it looks as if it covers all the bases, priced ok, so if Wahoo actually test the product and all the features work (are you listening Garmin….) then we can all switch over to a bug free world…
Is it planned to sell bundles? HR + Speed/Cadence? As combo for easy and a bit less pricey start?
We will let you know a little bit further down the line, but we have done combos in the past and you will see them again in the future.
Attached is the official render of the ELEMNT, showing colors, logos, page view, etc.
And here’s a brochure, good information on mounts, screens (map, elevation, live track, alerts), KICKR control: link to assets.brandfolder.com
Their presentation says it supports “multiple profiles”, that’s a hint on the multiple bike support, I’d think.
Yup, check out the details in the post on multiple profiles and what that means and how you can use it.
Looks very promising Wahoo, really looking forward to more detailed review/info!
In the meantime, regarding the mount(s), what about those of us who have aero, non-round handlebars? The round mount won’t fit on ovalized bars/stem. Do you have an “rubber bands” mount option, similar to Garmin without the quarter turn? More and more bikes don’t have traditional round bars and a suitable/easy way to mount would be greatly appreciated!
I know a lot of people are bashing the aesthetic, but the display looks e-inkish, and looks like it is very easy to read in direct sunlight (side by side with the garmin seems to confirm this). The maps are a bit on the uglier side, but i will take function over form all day when it comes to a device like this. I’ll wait for it to come out to make a verdict.
I’ve been not so patiently waiting for a worthy Garmin competitor… I’m on my 4th Edge 510 in two years. The ELEMNT has definitely made my short list and I’m glad Leyzine has been dragging their feet on releasing the Super GPS in the USA. If nothing else pops up at InterBike I will be making my preorder on the ELEMNT.
Is there a rough draft of the user manual available yet?
I didn’t see any information on the amount of memory available for maps and whether it will accept a micro SD card.
Andre, just in MAPPING section:
The mapping uses OpenStreetMap (OSM), and the unit comes pre-loaded with the entire world.
And in comments somewhere – maps would be periodically updated via WiFi.
So, here is simply no need in micro SD.
Thanks. That will teach me to do a quick search for the words memory and micro Sd.
I’m a 510 user and have had issues with BlueTooth connectivity with my unit. It just seems to get finnicky here and there. Even with all of Garmin’s firmware updates it just goes in and out at times. I love using the live tracking feature on the 510, but the most annoying thing is when it disconnects the data on the live tracking page my followers see is distorted. Very annoying. They find it annoying too. Is the Element going to have reliable BT connection? Will data get distorted on live tracking? Will it work well with my iPhone? Just want reassurance that phone to bike computer connection is very reliable!
With the current KICKR iPhone app, you can not have the ability control the KICKR and also display power and HR all on the same page. Often promised by Wahoo, but never implemented.
It sounds like this could be configured to have KICKR control, HR and Power all on the same page?
Will Wahoo ever update the iPhone app to have KICKR control, HR and Power all on the same page? In EGR mode, HR and Power are probably the data fields most athletes want to monitor, in addition to being able to control the KICKR
We have big plans for our iOS and Android apps over the next 12 months, I can’t talk about anything specific yet but we have plenty of great stuff in the pipeline.
What about a Windows Phone app? If that is not on the roadmap, it’s a no-go for me…
I currently use a Garmin Edge 800 and while it’s been working flawless for 3.5 yrs now, I think I’m due for an upgrade. I use the maps often and I’m wondering: would this be a good “upgrade”?
Ray mentioned the word “breadcrumbs” which kinda turned me off. It reminded me of the breadcrumb trail of the Edge 500 which is useless in my opinion.
If Murray or Ray can provide a feedback I’d appreciate it.
ELEMNT supports following a pre-planned route path with on-route/off-route detection (and alerts). ELEMNT will not do any route calculation its self, only follow a route you have already pre-planned. With a smart phone connection there is lots of things possible, but this is how it will work at launch.
Keep your eye out and I will try and put together a blog on our website with a few more details on the Maps and Route support.
Having had an awful ride trying to use TBT on a Garmin 500, definitely interested in the mapping/routing options on the new ELEMNT…
…If one thing, letting me know *before* I’m at a junction that I need to turn, rather than alerting me when I’ve overshot it.
Hi Murray-
Wow, this sounds GREAT and thank you for following up with some answers. FWIW, I’m in the same boat as JB and so I wonder about the devil you know vs the one you don’t. I currently use a “long in the tooth (but dependable)” Garmin 800. I like to ride new routes and rely heavily on the Garmin 800 mapping functions. I create my course in advance using RideWithGPS and follow it (or cancel it). As long as I stay on the course, I’ve never gotten lost. While riding, I use the following mapping features:
* If I am unfamiliar with the route, I like to use the map to get a perspective of where I am on the course (cross streets/landmarks/etc).
* I always use turn-by-turn notifications. The “getting close” and “turn now” visual/audible alarms are very important.
* I like to see the name of the street I will be turning onto.
* If I’m familiar with the area, I hide the map and use a “distance to next turn“ field on the data screen (and use the map popups to direct me through the turns).
* The cue sheet is helpful when I want to preview the course (or see what’s coming after a rest stop).
I never use the Garmin to reroute the course (my phone is much better at that).
I do rely on the Garmin to notify me when I’m off course and when I’ve returned.
IMO, a video of the ELEMNT performing these functions would be invaluable to my decision to purchase.
Thanks for listening.
exactly!!! perfect saved me a great deal of typing. This is the deal maker for me. should it work this way I’m sold. if it cannot I’ll stick with the garmin
Dan-
Sounds like we use the Garmin the same way.
For my old eyes, I think the increased contrast and higher resolution screen of the ELEMNT will be exactly what I’m looking for. Of course IMO, the achilles heel for these TBT GPS units these days seems to be battery life. Get those numbers up and they’ll have a winner.
It would be cool if the ‘Mario’ lights started flickering in a turn pattern as you approached the turn with speed of the flicker intensifying until the actual turn time when it turned solid, solid on the appropriate side of the next turn.
Encouraging that the Kickr control is in there. Does this mean that the FE-C standards will be in the Kickr soon to allow control from Garmin Edge 1000/520 ?
No release date yet on the KICKR FE-C Support, all I can say is that its being developed and we will let everyone know when its ready.
Cool, Thanks
It sounds like the IOS apps are not “finished” yet, and here’s my STRONG request that the apps be VoiceOver tested before release. My initial KICKR apps were mostly VoiceOver compatable, but subsequent updates lost this accessibility… Luckily I kept the older version and now I’m afraid of updating and losing my KICKR controls.
Question regarding GPS routes controlling the KICKR, Could I track the route by car and get the same KICKR control quality for the terrain?
Thanks.
I’ve added a ticket in our system to test for VoiceOver so hopefully we can make sure we have that covered.
There shouldn’t be any problem recording the route by car.
I think I am sold on this device, great job Wahoo! I was on the verge of purchasing a Garmin 520 and saw the announcement on it, and like others have said in this thread I felt like I was in a corner with the Garmin platform, even with all the horrible software support it has. I can hold out a few more weeks since the season is over for me.
Quick question on the Wi-Fi… does it support both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands? For dense living environments (apartments / townhomes), all the neighbors are running 2.4 GHz which leads to a lot of interference on Wi-Fi (not mention they run on channels between 1,6, or 11 making things even worse). I only run 5 GHz as hardly anyone uses that band. This is not a showstopper for me, but I would need to turn on my 2.4 GHz radio in my access point if it only supports 2.4 GHz.
Hi Harold,
ELEMNT only have 2.4Gz support, no 5Gz. Sorry.
Question to Murray: Will it support hidden networks? (Pioneer does not.)
This looks very good. About time someone produced a bike computer with everything on it.
When is it available in the UK? I want one.
Reference to Michael #171
TBT is an absolute must but must work from the metrics screen with a popup ‘X’ amount of yards from the turn.
So that we don’t have to constantly watch the map to see where we are going.
Another question when pulling planned routes from either Strava or Ride with GPS remotely will we need premium accounts with either of these services for this to work?
I always want to love Wahoo products, but the RFLCT+ let me down extremely badly, as the app crashed any time I went for a long ride – this was especially frustrating when I did my first ever long (240Km) race and it crashed about 4 or 5 times. They knew it was an issue at the start of the summer, but never got it fixed.
I’m glad to see that this is no longer dependent on the app, so hopefully it will work a lot better. Looking forward to giving it a try!
COMPATIBLE WITH FIRSTBEAT HR TOOLS – TBD
What is TBD and which tools? Athlete/Sports? or Bodyguard2/HRM strap
> COMPATIBLE WITH FIRSTBEAT HR TOOLS – TBD
What is TBD and which tools? Athlete/Sports? or Bodyguard2/HRM strap
TBD = to be determined
Props for going open standard on the quarter turn.
Hopefully you took care of your firmware, better than you did on the RFLKT, great idea, very sucky user experience.
It’s time somebody kicks Garmin in the arse.
Will it be able to accept a tcx file from RWGPS that has custom cues? I like using the cuesheet screen on my 520. It shows the turn direction and distance/time to next cue point. Will there be a similar feature on the ELEMNT?
So a device that plays with Garmin Connect that isn’t from Garmin? Someone needs to shut up and take my money.
For longer races a 17 hour battery life is too short. Is it possible to plug in an auxiliary battery to extend the battery life while it’s being used?
ha, great minds… we posted the same requirement at near exactly the same time :)
Yeah no problem, the USB plug in on the back side of the device, easy to attach a cable with the out-front or aero mounts.
It would be useful if the battery was easily replaceable, so you could carry a few spares.
That would be a big advantage over the Garmin Edge.
I, like others, have a Garmin 810 due to lack of other viable options, it’s a truly terrible device, very unstable.
I really hope the elemnt is
– Stable, my Garmin frequently crashes under normal use, it’s just not good enough in this day and age
– Actually able to last 17 hours on battery, the 810 lasts less then 12 with backlight off etc
– Able to run when connected to an external power source (USB battery pack) for longer rides
I hope Wahoo also keep their great level of support as they grow, I had an issue with my Kickr that was diagnosed remotely and a spare sent by post to fix, 10 out of 10.
I’m likely to sell my 810 on ebay if first reports of the elemnt are good.
Looks like a potentially great unit.
Will the ELEMNT have a W’ (W ‘prime’) indication?
We currently do not have W indication on the ELEMNT.
Wahoo Murray, you have mentioned in comment, what it is possible to get notifications from other apps (WhatsApp, etc). Is it possible, that one day here comes notifications from Google Maps navigation?
One thing I’ve been thinking about – would there be any possibility of a demo unit to ‘try’, much like how I can borrow a saddle from a cycle shop (a nice, bright purple Fizik) to get to know it over a course of rides (real world situation).
I, as a potential customer, put down credit card details, or deposit (or some way of guaranteeing the return of the unit to Wahoo) – I then get a couple of weeks/month to use the unit in anger with my set-up. If I don’t like it, I return, Wahoo refund and I walk away – if I do, Wahoo takes the money, I return the demo unit on receipt, Wahoo sends me out a retail version.
As a customer:
– I get to trial the unit in a real world situation, riding (not a video, not stuck in a shop)
– I get to be an ambassador (riding with friends “What’s that purple thing?” “Oh, it’s a Wahoo Head Unit”
– I get to try before I buy (it’s not an inexpensive purchase)
For me this says so much more about the belief the company has in its product (and totally get the way Wahoo have been commenting on this thread), and also lines up ‘being’ customer centric.
Anyway – just a thought.
Rich, on the Wahoo website:
no hassle returns within 30 days
So, you can always try unit for 30 days without problems :)
Ah, good point Maksim thanks – though personally I’d still be concerned that I wouldn’t get my money back if the unit wasn’t pristine (but if the good people at Wahoo honour this, ‘ie. no hassle’ then that’s very cool).
Oh, and if I could set the side LEDs to ‘matches burnt’ in a race = take my money now!
Yes, that was where I was going with W prime…
HI Rich and Richard
I’ve added it to our request list, Thanks.
Murray –
Just curious. Why was it important to get the entire world OSM to fit on the device? Assuming that 99% of the people are going to be doing 99% of their rides in the same town/area, wouldn’t it have been easier to just split it up into various regions or continents to load as needed?
Bruce
Because I actually move my office every 4 weeks, So I need world maps :)
Its for Simplicity, we wanted to make the out of box experience the best we could and that meant having USA, Europe, Aus and NZ (our biggest markets) pre-installed. Since maps are relatively large its not possible to send over bluetooth so WiFi becomes a requirement before you could use maps. We would then need some way to manage maps, while not a huge task its something we identified as a problem with current bike computers. Once we decided we wanted those markets pre-installed we realised thats 90% of the world (in storage size) so we decided to go the whole hog.
I asked a previous question about the possibility of supporting a handlebar mounted remote to switch between screens, start/stop laps and the like. (I don’t have Di2 so this isn’t an option for me!)
If would be great if Wahoo could give an indication if this is being considered at all as part of your roadmap.
This is something that would definitely persuade me to jump ship from Garmin as on paper anyway, the ELEMNT seems to tick a lot of boxes.
Yes its definitely on the roadmap, I don’t exactly know when yet but since the foundation will be already in place due to the Di2 support, its only a matter of supporting the correct ANT+ profile as well.
I’m liking the mapping. Above all, I’m liking the clarity of it: All I want to see is roads. No street names, no clutter, just high-contrast roads. Get this right, and get the turn/off-course notifications right, and you might just have my money. IME, Garmin’s maps lack clarity and the navigation is buggy.
I see two flaws with the unit, though:
First, the position of the USB port is a problem for me. I mount my Garmin on my stem (I often have other things mounted on the bar) and I need the ability to charge while riding. That’s not possible with this unit, which is a real shame.
Second, I don’t find zip ties anything like as good as rubber O-rings for the mount. I guess not everyone agrees, though.
Good to see someone finally offering decent competition for the Edge 8-series, though.
I think, if unit mounted on the stem, it is still possible to charge with 90° angled USB cable. And do you really can ride 17 hours non-stop???
90 degree micro USB cables need about 10mm space to fit so a stem mount would still need to provide at least that amount of clearance from the back of the ELEMNT.
If there’s enough space to get some sort of cable in there then that would be good. It looks unlikely, but I’d be happy to be proven wrong.
And, yes :)
I guess for the infrequent occasions that I do need more than 17 hours it’d just be a matter of using the out-front mount, though…
No one rides for 17hours, stop being an arse and pretending youre some kind of cycling god.
“There are more things in heaven and earth, Steve,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”
See the Race Across America Challenge 400 mile races. It’s sad but true, we couldn’t hold up a 23.53+ mph average speed for 400 miles so it ran over 17 hours.
Wahoo answered my question saying that plugging in an auxiliary battery to extend battery life is possible so it’s all good.
I’d be really interested to know if this could function as a bridge for the powermatch function in Trainerroad. As an SRM and Kickr owner it would be a real boost for me.
Not sure I understand what it would be Bridging?
Feature request- It would be great if the unit could be used in a horizontal “landscape” mode.
Hi Carl,
We have discussed this although I don’t think its something we will be pursuing, Sorry.
Hi,
Looks like an awesome device. I think of would be really nice for us to have something like an efficiency factor (Power divided by Heart Rate) and customizable Workouts and Training zones for heart rate as well as power.
Wow
Looks promising. In the market for dedicated unit..Just about went w/ the 520 – can catch this on sale through very sites too. and CT of course
At $329, not sure why this would not be set at $299 price point as the Garmin 520?
Please offer a bundle offer:)
I returned my Garmin 510 bundle because the heart rate never worked — even after 3 replacement straps. I was advised I could “fix” the straps or use different brands. I never felt like I should have to “fix” a brand new device.
So, I then bought a RFLKT+ with HR strap and speed cadence sensors. Everything paired and worked fine except altitude and temperature. I contacted support and they sent a new RFLKT+, same thing, temperature and altitude flat don’t work. This is very aggravating to me, I bought this unit because I was dissatisfied with Garmin. These functions are not essential I suppose, but I spent $30 extra to get them.
So all this ranting boils down to this. Does the thing work? Do all of the functions really work?
The majority of features (on the beta unit) seem to work and are stable. There’s still some stuff of course that’s being implemented (for example, I couldn’t demo the friend feature, as noted) – as that’s underway.
And things that were oddities I saw back in Eurobike that are already cleaned up now, just two weeks later.
But ultimately, that’s what the in-depth review is about.
Wifi:
Does it support 802.11N?
Does it support 802.11AC?
Does it support multiple access ports with the same SSID (EG one for the front of the house and one for the back)?
Does it support a login screen (EG like at McDonalds)?
Does it support passwords less than 8 characters?
(Just asking, because the answers are ‘no’ for my FR920XT)
and in my experience, the FR920XT can’t do AES encryption either.
I am still tracking down/confirming a couple answers and will get back to you soon.
Ray,
Any idea what the live tracking feature will show to someone who is following? I know I have had friends want to watch me in a TT and others who have done the same. Since we like the numbers I wasn’t sure if it’ll display basic metric on live tracking like Garmin’s does.
Thanks!
My Garmin 810 freezes randomly and is hard to see when navigating. Its about time someone blew Garmin out of the market with their over priced sub standard products.
Will be interesting to see how accurate the battery life is? One weclomed feature that would be good is to plan a route on your phone and send it to the device. Looks like you could do this now with Locus maps app and dropbox or email.
Any chance it will become compatible with Suunto’s Movescount? I prefer their watches to Garmin simply because they have less “bugs” or so it seems. But one thing Suunto is lacking itself is a dedicated bike GPS. I’m not a fan of just attaching a watch to my bike.
Holy comment section batman! This is a longer read than an in depth Ray review
My wife has a Garmin Edge touring with Open Cycle Maps installed, the Garmin will display ” Riding on Route 25 ” when she is on the National Cycle route number 25 ( in the UK )
Just wondered if Wahoo had considered Open Cycle Map ?
Hi Kevin,
OpenStreetMap and OpenCycleMaps are the same thing, the latter simply styles the map towards things that are of interest to Cyclists but the data is the same.
Hi Murray,
Open Cycle Map will display a legend alongside the route ( Route 25 ) for example.
It will also pop up ” Riding on Route 25 ” onto the Garmin screen.
This didn’t happen with OSM so perhaps there is extra data in Open Cycle Map ?
Can other Garmin users verify this please, perhaps i’m missing something ?
Just to add, this is easier to see in Viewranger, where the OSM just shows a dotted line, Open Cycle Map shows a highlighted dotted line with the Route number showing at intervals.
The underlying data is the same, its only a different in presentation.
I guess the answer to your question is No, ELEMNT won’t currently give you a indication of the road you are on but its something on our roadmap.
Hi Murray,
Is it possible to get notifications from Google Maps navigation on ELEMNT?
It’s possible… I’ve raised a issue in our backlog to review/consider this as a option.
Thanks! So, now I know what to ask Santa for :)
Good luck with this, wahoo folks. Seems quite ambitious based on comments here, but sounds like you’re doing a lot of things right. Garmin devices have always been disappointing in serious ways.. but no real competition.
I especially like:
– complete maps preloaded and updatable
– sync routes from ridewithgps
– bluetooth + ant
Question: is it possible to pan around the map, or only zoom in/out?
Only zoom in and out.
This is unfortunate. There are often times where I want to pan the map to see more details of upcoming sections, especially on trails. You lose a lot of detail if the only way to see what’s ahead is to zoom out.
Nice! Was thinking of a 520 to replace my 510, but this looks so much better. A couple of things though:
1. Ray says “If indoors, you can rely purely on sensors for speed/distance, and turn off the GPS functionality.” I would like to do this within profile configuration, having an Indoor profile with GPS off, makes no sense having to manually turn off GPS every single time indoors. Possible on the 520 but not on the 510. Highly annoying. What about the Elemnt?
2. I would really want to send the link for Live tracking using iMessage instead of email. It’s a more direct way of telling family when I leave. People will notice a message immediately, with email I would need to tell/message them separately, “Check your email for the link”.
1. In most cases you need to turn GPS off, We have made it the first item in the settings so it only takes 2 button presses to do so. The exception is KICKR where the GPS will be turned off automatically. Profiles are for page setups.
2. The best we can do is present a pre-compiled iMessage, we can’t automatically send it due to iOS restrictions. In this case you would need to unlock the phone and send it.
1. Two button presses is not bad, but still unnecessary. Would you consider doing it automatically for other trainers, i.e. when trainer is present -> disable GPS? As part of FE-C trainer control, maybe?
2. Ok, given the restrictions.
Came to think of another issue I have with other units:
3. I would really like to have control of what is sent to Strava, is it or could it be possible to tie uploads to profiles, eg. upload races to Strava and TP, but regular rides to TP only, using separate profiles? I got my hopes up seeing it under the Profile tab, but maybe it’s just the same name for two different things.
1. Definitely would be the same for other trainers that we support.
2. I’ve added a feature request for sending a SMS (not a iMessage) using a 3rd party service, this would allow us to send a regular SMS to a standard mobile number.
3. Right now we are trying to keep things simple with profiles and not cover every possible combination a user might want, not to say we are not listening, we will add what we need. I think in this case you would disable automatic upload and manually upload each file. Either way I’ve added the feature to our backlog and it will get reviewed at our next planning meeting.
1. Was thinking of general support, including other manufacturers, was hoping it would be possible to recognise a trainer as such, using ANT+/BLE, but maybe it’s not.
2. Cool!
3. Really appreciate this, even just considering it. For me, it would be kind of a privacy setting, wanting to share sessions with others, but not everything. Manual upload, well, not interested :-) Your list of supported sites, on day one, is impressive, btw.
3. Agree. The problem with logging rides to the cloud is the all-or-nothing nature of the privacy settings.
For example, I probably log less than 5% of my rides to Strava but connect.garmin.com wants to send over every ride, or none.
You don’t have to log to a 3rd party service, but can simply shoot out the files via e-mail to yourself.
When I say “Manual” I don’t mean getting the file and manually going to each site to upload, Its super simple to just open the workout in our phone app and quickly tap on the services you wish to upload to, takes seconds.
Aah ok, that’s better. I still think that this is just the kind of thing that a computer/phone should take care of though. Set and forget.
How? My released firmware seems to be missing a share-via-email option in the ride summary page.
since yours will not do the car-like navigation how about i just send my garmin 810 to wahoo and wahoo takes it and puts their screen on it. Then I have the best of both worlds :)
Murray, is it possible to use ELEMNT on some bikes (with saved wheel diameter for each, for example)?
Wheel Circumference is associated with a sensor, so it will work as expected unless you move the sensor between bikes.
Murray, is it possible for the screen to be half map and half information? So have maybe 4 data fields on the top half and the map filling the bottom half?
Steve, answer here: link to dcrainmaker.com (comment #147)
Also, is it possible to use the LED indicators as turn signals for the map? Like a visual alert to trun left or right?
Steve, this setting you can see in screenshots, in Features section in LED Settings screen.
For those interested in the display something tells me this is the LCD panel used: link to sharpmemorylcd.com
Any plans for Ant+ remote (Garmin) connectivity?
link to dcrainmaker.com
This looks promising, but having been an early adopter with previous Garmin units, I’m still going to wait to see if it performs as stated. It seems like the Wahoo folks are at least listening to consumers, but execution will be where the proof is – and I’ll wait to see. It is unfortunate that Garmin’s awful product performance has jaded me, but perhaps the good folks at Wahoo will release a product that performs just as they say it will. I certainly hope so!
For those concerned about the mount compatibility, there is this:
http://www.dogearsgps.com
If the Wahoo folks have a look at it and design the case so that the 2 little screws can be safely and securely inserted, then all the newly happy ex-Garmin users can continue to use their existing mounts. It only adds a few mm to the stack height.
Steve
Is Garmin’s Varia rear radar system all in house through private Ant? Or is it open where Wahoo has the ability to connect with it? If it is open any plans for the future connecting with Varia? I think the system is great and practical for many riders. Love to be able to use this with Element!
My understanding is that it’s a mixture. The light portion is open ANT+, using the lighting control profile. Whereas the radar piece is private-ANT.
So Wahoo could implement support for the open ANT+ piece, and that’d be compatible with at a minimum the light portions of both Garmin and Bontrager’s products. And then depending on how much trouble Wahoo wanted to go to, they could also implement the private-ANT piece.
Does anyone know if it supports the metric Kilojoules? It’s missing from the RFLKT+.
ELEMNT has the option for KJ as the energy metric.
Thank you Wahoo for coming out with anything that competes with Garmin, AND being as receptive and open with us on this forum. Order placed! can’t wait to kick Garmin to the curb.
Sweet!. I’ve finally found the upgrade to my Edge 800. Since Wahoo has so much experience with ANT+ and BTLE sensors, I wonder if they have anything planned that could solve one of my pet peeves for BTLE and triathlons: the one-to-one pairing limitation. I understand the BTLE spec now permits one-to-many pairing, but no one seems to have implemented it. This is a bit of a problem in triathlons since most folks are going to have both a watch (for the swim and the run) and a bike computer (so they can see bike data easily.) I guess Polar tried to address that with the heart-rate rebroadcast feature in the V800, but AFAIK that still doesn’t work. And Suunto lets you mirror the watch display in the Movescount iOS app, but no one’s going to mount their iPhone in a transition area. Seems like Polar’s approach might be the best compromise, but, of course, someone’s got to actually do it. Maybe the ELEMNT could add BTLE re-broadcast but actually make it work.
The only thing, that I need, to know: can use the device (or my phone)
To a certain point, when, i diced to go home halfway a route?
(Navigation)
Hi Henk,
I’m not sure I understand. You want to be able to Navigate home from any point along your ride? Like the Strava “Route back to Start” function?
If that is the case, then not right now, we are not doing any route calculations, only pre-planned routes. (for launch)
Murray, you just wrote:
If that is the case, then not right now, we are not doing any route calculations, only pre-planned routes. (for launch)
Is it means, what route calculations in ELEMNT can be added someday? And maybe it is already in the backlog or even roadmap? But.. this is really cool!
Lets try not to speculate on features that might or might not be included at some unknown date, I prefer to keep the discussion about the features it has now and features that we know 100% will be added before launch (or shortly after). Hope you understand.
Yes, right. Thank you, Murray!
Murray,
Can you comment on if Kilojoules will be a metric with this new computer… and if not whats the reason for leaving such an important metric off?
Joe
The reason I want to be able to Navigate home from any point along my ride? or something like the Strava “Route back to Start” function, is that sometimes, I get tired, and decide to call my mountainbike ride off. And take the shortest way home….
Wahoo Murray: Any chance you can update your Wahoo Utility app for iOS 9? It crashes the instant I hit the button to test a BT sensor (as in, completely, all the way back to the springboard). Worked fine in iOS 8.4.1. Thanks!
Sorry John is been stuck “In Review” with Apple for over a week! (Plus it was waiting for review for a week before that). Apple is normally really quick to review stuff around iOS releases, we have tried to reach out to Apple and just waiting for a response. We also have Segments stuck In Review. :(
Thanks, Murray!
Version 3.0 indeed fixed the problem with iOS 9! Thanks again, Murray!
Hello Murray,
I’m considering to buy KICKR and ELEMNT from Japan.
1. Can map display Double Byte Character Set (DBCS) or Multiple Byte Character Set (MBCS) or Universal multi-octet Character Set 4(UCS-4) ?
Japanese character (Kanji/Hiragana/Katakana) normally use DBCS. I would like to know whether the ELEMNT map can avoid character corruption by supporting that. OSM displays many Japanese in Japan area map.
2. Does GPS receiver support Quasi-Zenith Satellite System (QZSS) ?
QZSS increase the availability and performance of GPS in Japan.
3. Will Wahoo Fitness app for iOS recognize the value of cadence and speed via 4iiii Viiiiva?
Currently Wahoo Fitness app for iOS recognizes only heart rate and doesn’t recognize cadence (by using Garmin GSC-10 sensor. Other apps can recognize it). Wahoo Fitness app for Android recognizes heart rate, cadence and speed (I heard it from my friend).
I saw the comment earlier about no plans for support for mobile Windows devices. Will the ELEMNT be at all usable without an android or iOS product? If, by chance, I was able to temporarily use a proper mobile device for set up will it be usable as a stand alone bike computer when I no longer have access to that mobile device?
Yes, All the core settings can still be done from the device, You will need a iOS/Android device to configure pages (the defaults are dynamic based on sensors) and to setup wifi/sharing.
Looks good, nice screen res, I really hope this works well so I can throw my garbagmin 810 where it belongs, AND tell them to shove it. (seems a common sentiment)
Looks really good! Will I be able to pair my Garming HR and Garming cadence sensor with it?
Yes, no problem
I know with Kickr support you are all about supporting your own products which is understandable. However in the spirit of the openness which your company has pioneered in this space are you going to support ANT+FE/C trainers such as those made by Tacx too?
PS. I bought a Garmin 520 and while initially impressed I’ve found it clunky. This device has a much more ‘modern’ approach.
I can’t promise ANT+ FE/C for launch, BUT its currently been worked on and we hope to have it ready for launch. Openness and support for as many devices/services are high on our list.
Now see. 5 minutes to answer that question. Keep up that level of support. This is what we like.
I’m interested in this because although I have a Garmin 520, I find it fiddly and awkward to use, the user interface is poor and the connection to my phone is flakey to say the least. Plus Garmin hasn’t entirely given up their obsession to having to plug the thing into a USB cable to a PC, they still require that for firmware updates, which is crazy.
This unit looks good in terms of what it does, not crazy about the styling, it looks a bit 1st gen and cheap to me, for what is quite an expensive product I would have expected better. Mind you it’s still better looking than the RFKLT which always looked like a university science project that was released by accident.
Does it track odometer for multi-bike functionality? Does it use the detestable “sensor pool” functionality? Or does it know which sensor belong to which bike? Or does it not have multi-bike functionality at all?
Ok, so I’m looking for some advice. I am fairly new to the cadence sensor/cyclocomputer scene. For the past 3 or 4 years, I’ve been using Strava on my Samsung GS5 paired with a BLE/Ant+ HRM. I’ve been fine with this setup, and have enjoyed logging my rides and tracking progress. I’ve been interested more recently in adding cadence tracking to my logs. In my research, I determined that I wanted to be able to see live HRM/Cadence/Speed data on my handlebar while riding… I know my phone could possibly do this but it would definitely drain the battery much more quickly. So began the search for a basic computer to display the data I wanted as well as continue to retain the data on my phone to upload to strava. So, I’ve been reading and reading about cadence/speed sensors and cyclocomputers – mostly on this website. I think I narrow it down to what I want, then I come across a new technology or conflicting opinions. :) I guess my first question would be, what cadence/speed sensor would you recommend at this time for my situation (Mostly road cycling in summer and MTB in the winter – all for fitness/training)? I’m currently leaning towards the Garmin speed and cadence sensors that you reviewed recently or the Wahoo Blue SC with BLE/Ant+ capability. Ant+ seems the way to go, as they can broadcast data to 2 separate devices (phone and cyclocomputer). Thanks for your help!
Oh, and with my current setup, I do have a wireless speed sensor on the bike that displays speed, distance and current time…
Adding ANT+ or BLE sensors to your S5 setup will have a very marginal impact on battery life. The big things for the phone batter life are the display which you presumably already have on. The gps which you also already have on. Any real – time data usage e.g. real time downloading of maps. Your S5 with suitable software is probably good for 10+ hours screen and gps on all the time. Modern phones have moved on a lot in this regard in the last few years. The technology is better and the phones getting bigger means the battery is bigger.
Why not design it so it can be set up without a smartphone? I realize that smartphone attached is kind of wahoo’s gig, but it would at least bridge the gap a little for Windows phone users.
Pre-ordered! I’m looking forward to receiving my first ever bike computer. I’ve enjoyed the Wahoo tickr and tickr x. I am hoping that Wahoo continues its excellent customer support and products even as gains in marketshare.
Putting this here since Murray seems to still be following the thread, even though it isn’t about the ELEMNT. I’m an Android user of the RFLKT+, which means I must use the Wahoo app. In the last week I’ve had the most tragic thing happen twice: the phone battery died. To add insult to injury, the last thing I hear is the Wahoo lady announcing my (three) sensors have disconnected.
There’s no time between that and the phone shutting off. I wish the Android app, since it obviously supports voice notifications, had a low battery warning or two. That way I could connect a booster battery.
I just care about when can I bought this awsome device from China with a proper price
So today I returned my Garmin Edge 520 after 1 month of frustrating use, dropping my Bluetooth sensors, firmware updating issues and phone sync basically not working ever, in addition to the the usual clunkiness in the ui that Garmin is so good at.
Looking forward to get this puppy, i played with it at InterBike and i have to say it has potential.
Hopefully Wahoo SQA will do a good job of clearing bugs before release.
Any update on the release date?
Any coupons for early adopters?
Ciao
yes
What @marcosoldano said
“Any coupons for early adopters “:) ???
” Hopefully Wahoo SQA will do a good job of clearing bugs before release.
Any update on the release date?
Any coupons for early adopters? “
Sorry we don’t have any coupons for early adopters,
No update on release, we will let everyone know via Ray once we have a solid shipping date from the manufacture. Everything is tracking well and our entire team is currently focused 100% of software quality.
> our entire team is currently focused 100% of software quality.
This is good to hear; G****n lost it for me with the poor quality; I’ve just sent back my device for a full refund thanks to Amazon, I’m never buying their computers again, so I can’t wait to try the Elemnt.
Never hurts to ask
Thanks Wahoo Murray
Does it have a backlight for the display for riding in the dark? Some of my rides occur after I get off work and will often end just before dark.
Yes it has a backlight that can be turned on.
Murray – what’s the expected battery life with the backlight turned on?
Will it be possible to control wireless lights like the Bontrager Transmitr Ant+ ones?
Not right away but it is our intention to add support in the short/medium-term.
Any plans to make the out front mount compatible with other devices? I’m thinking in particular that on outside rides I want to be using a computer, but a lot of my rides are indoor on Zwift where I want to mount my phone, for which I usually use a quadlock but that would get in the way of the Wahoo mount? So some way to use the computer mount to put on an iphone would be very useful!
It said release in November, it’s now November, so can we be more specific? Also is it going to be available in the UK then too? In some fashion which doesn’t involve having to get it shipped from the USA?
The article says availability by Black Friday (27 November)
It seems this date is become an event for UK retailers as well.
Clearly Wahoo will be missing out on business if the product isn’t available and ready to ship in volumes by then.
Ah right, cheers! That’s a way off but not too bad, as it’s not a Christmas present – except perhaps to myself!
Although it does make me despair that Black Friday is a thing in the UK now :(
Hi Murray,
does the unit Provide a reading of outside temperature? I know the garmins has this option, and it does come in handy sometimes.
cheers
Hi Murray,
Apologies if this is a bit off thread but does Wahoo have any plans for a multisports watch? I, like a number of people here, are keen to move away from Garmin if possible but up until now there have been few viable alternatives. As a potential Kickr/Elemnt user I was wondering if there is a Fenix 3 / 920XT alternative in the pipeline? Any words Ray?
Well, I think a lot of folks would consider the Polar V800 and the Suunto Ambit3 to be viable alternatives. Although I wouldn’t complain at all if Wahoo added some more competition in the market.
(Disclosure: I returned my Fenix 3 to REI after getting fed up with its horrible GPS performance for trail running. Couldn’t be happier with my Ambit3 sport.)
I’m interested but the lack of standard mount is a major blow to me. I have the Giant SLR aero handle bar with a non-circular cross section. It’s a major pain to find an out front mount already which I did find eventually. Stem mount is no go. Now I have to find another mount that’s also unique to the bike computer. Why the “lightning” mount?
What you you mean by “lightning” mount? I’m not sure what the question is.
The Garmin mount isn’t a standard mount, it’s a Garmin mount, owned and licensed by Garmin, this makes it unavailable for it to be used by other companies.
We are shipping the device with 3 mounts and working with several 3rd party mount manufactures for additional options.
Who makes the one you have now?
Also, as mentioned above its not that hard to modify them to work with the ELEMNT, Ray did this for one of his photos.
You are correct about the Garmin 1/4 turn. It is proprietary but it’s been so popular that it’s now practically a standard at consumer’s level. Wahoo didn’t use it on the RFLKT for no reason I assume. Why deviate from it unless there is some technical difficulties? If Garmin is the one stopping Wahoo from using it then that answers my question. How did you guys get permission to use it for the RFLKT? I’m using a mount similar to the one made by Fourier at the moment. link to fouriers-bike.com
I have to see if I can switch out the pad.
The lighning mount is just my Apple joke.
I’m a loyal Wahoo fan. I have the BlueSC, Tickr, RFLKT, RFLKT+, Kickr, the elemnt could be the new member. Make it easy for me please.
“it’s proprietary” == “garmin can choose to license it or not”. Probably not in Garmin’s best interest to license it to a company that is becoming a direct competitor.
Like I said if Garmin is using its right on the patent to stop Wahoo from using a compatible mount, so be it. My struggle is not so much to have a mount that works with Garmin. I don’t even own one product made by Garmin. I have both the RFLKT and the RFLKT+. I have aftermarket mounts that work the way I want them. It just happened that they are all Garmin compatible mount. So what’s with the flip flopping design by the same company? If Garmin is letting Wahoo use it before and now they change their mind, then I guess both Wahoo and myself got screwed. To summerize, it appears that the elemnt is not compatible to mounts that work with RFLKT or the RFLKT+, that’s a problem for me as a customer.
A few random points/thoughts:
A) In the case of the RFLKT/RFLKT+, Wahoo technically included a back plate mount that was user swappable. That essentially made it easy in the event Garmin ever had heartburn, you just swapp out a plastic part that costs a few cents and doesn’t hose up your production line or existing units.
B) I’ve heard differing things on the legality of the mount, but nobody actually licenses it today. They just use it. From a few people I’ve talked to Garmin has not filed any legal documentation with PTO or others concerning the mount itself. Of course, those people may or may not be correct. Someone with more time might be able to validate this claim on PTO’s website.
C) On one hand, it’s clear that Wahoo is doing everything possible to make it easy for folks by including every type of mount you could need in the box. That’s appreciated.
D) On the other hand, there are many 3rd party mounts that folks have already bought that can cost a fair bit (i.e. K-Edge & Barfly). Lack of compatibility with those mounts would personally be a blocker for me for use (i.e. the GoPro combo mount that K-Edge offers).
For those interested, we have published the 3D drawings for both our male and female mounts. If you have any issues or questions please raise a issue on github and I will get back to you.
link to github.com
Would you consider making just the mount tray? I know that a lot of the third party mounts including mine have replaceable mount tray. That way they can all become compatible with the elemnt, everybody wins.
Not sure I understand what you mean, Do you have an example/link for what you are after?
This is the one from Giant. link to giant-bicycles.com
This is the one from Fouriers. link to fouriers-bike.com
This is the one from K edge. link to acecosportgroup.com
K-edge appears to use a 2-screw design while the other two use 1-screw design. Not sure what else is different.
Barfly has it too. link to barflybike.com
I dunno, it’s possible that none of them are interchangeable neither.
Until I figure out how to mount it to the Giant SLR Aero handlebar. It’s a no go for me. It should work fine on my other bike with a standard circular handlebar.
When released will there be a bundle discount option on eu.wahoofitness.com?
Meaning the ELEMNT, the Tickr and the blue sc cycling sensor
There’s a bundle offer on the website now.
Will it be able to control Tacx Neo?
Or any other ANT+ FE-C smart trainer?
Yes ELEMNT will support all FE-C trainers.
Great news, thanks for keeping us up to date Murray!
Over the last couple of days I’ve had technical questions for TrainerRoad and now Wahoo and got a straight answer in no time at all. Clearly these are companies that care about their customers and employ smart and motivated people. Compare that to my difficulties of getting a straight answer at another cycle GPS company… I’m very much looking forward to getting my hands on an Elemnt now.
Is it compatible with Shimano Di2 shifter buttons?
It will, however it doesn’t look like the units will ship with support but we will have a update out very soon.
When will the companion app be released? I’d like to check that out, to see some more of the options available for items to display on the screen of the unit.
Or is it going to be the already released Wahoo Fitness app, and more options show when it’s paired?
It’s a new app and won’t be available until we start shipping. You won’t be able to do much without pairing a unit. I will put together some screen shots and post a link tomorrow if you like.
Thanks, Wahoo Murray!
That would be great.
I purchased one yesterday, but still am anxious to see what the app has in store for the ELEMNT
Thanks Wahoo Murray
Will the ELEMNT be offered at Performance Bike?
If so, when?
It is not on their website ” yet ”
Thanks
Performance Bike stock all our other products so I would assume they would also looking at stocking ELEMNT . I suggest that you email them as ask, its not something we control directly.
Looks very tempting, I may sell my Garmin 500 – one question. I have a road and MTB bike, both have ANT+ sensors and are programmed in the Garmin with different wheel circumference for speeds calculation. It also keeps an odometer for each bike. Can I do that with ELEMNT? It’s a pain to switch on the Garmin- hopefully I could do this with the app?
Wheel circumference is associated with a sensor, so if the ELEMNT is connected to that sensor then thats the wheel circumference it will use for the speed and distance calculations. No need to switch anything.
We don’t keep odometer readings for bikes.
I just received an email that it’s not shipping until January 2016.
Still looking forward to a link with more screenshots of the app.
FYI – ELEMNT is delayed until about January 2016. :-( Just got an email update from Wahoo. I suspect it is still worth waiting for, although they did offer a full refund for those of us who pre-ordered.
Me? I’ll wait. Another month or so, in the doldrums of winter aren’t much of a problem.
I am willing to wait as well. I am disappointed, but the #1 reason for me moving to the Wahoo Elemnt is due to the low quality Garmin firmware. I would rather wait and have it work as intended, then to receive it but then be disappointed with the firmware quality.
Wahoo – take the time you need (but not too much time).
Don’t worry Jeff, None of us are getting much sleep these days. Totally bummed that we missed our thanksgiving release, but we will get it released as soon as possible!
Yeah, I would’ve preferred to have it now, but 90% of my recreational riding is in the summer, so I’m not complaining, assuming it ships by March or so.
Product launches can be tough – new technologies, global manufacturing, demanding customer base…. I’ve been there too, and it’ll all be worthwhile the the *right* product is released.
No worry, Murray (hey, I rhyme). We’ll all keep pedaling in the meantime!
That’s great Murray..
if it just displayed power zone, speed and recorded without crashing and transferred off ok it’d be better than my g*rmin at the moment. Poss a limited release version that we can upgrade to poor people suffering like me? :)
go on.. ;)
Echoing what others are saying, don’t be like Garmin!
My advice as a jaded software developer: Get it stable, cut features that are not absolutely essential get the basics right and release it when it’s ready.
interesting to see different company strategy to product delay in light of the limits power meter approach
Ray didn’t tell you about the letter I sent him ;-)
Hi,
I have a Samsung Galaxy S3 Mini which I dont believe has Bluetooth 4.0, will I be able to pair it with the Elemnt?.
ELEMNT requires Bluetooth 4.0 to pair with a phone.
@Wahoo Murray – would be cool if the software could connect to non-standard bluetooth devices, such as microsoft band HR sensor
Unless Microsoft uses standard profiles there is no way for us to connect to the device. I had a quick look at there doesn’t seem to be any public information on 3rd parties connected to these devices.
The MSFT Band doesn’t do any rebroadcasting unfortunately.
@Wahoo Murray is it compatible with BSXInsight broadcast of SmO2? (more info on bsxinsight at link to dcrainmaker.com)
Sorry for the delay… It looks like I stopped getting notifications of new posts!
We add support with the Oxy profile but not yet storing or displaying the data, we have it scheduled for soon after post launch. We are trying to work with 3rd party sites so this information can be more useful.
Would that include support for multiple SmO2 sensors (thinking of the Moxy) or just one?
Multiple.
Thanks!!
Can I put in a request for recording multiple power meters as well…I’ve got a friend of a friend that’s interested in that sorta thing.
For you, Request denied.
Just kidding, We do actually collect and store all sample data from all connected sensors (you can connect multiple seniors of all types). However, we would need to add support for exporting this data, I will see what strings I can pull.
Hallo Murray
Has the Elemnt Profiles for more Bikes?
Bye Robert
We don’t really have the concept of “bike profile”
Can you explain what you want? We allow pairing many different sensors and select the best data while you are riding. So if you have multiple bikes you just pair all the sensors.
It wasn’t my question originally but I’ll add my thoughts.
I have a road bike and MTB bike, each with their own ANT+ speed/cadence sensors. From your earlier posts it sounds like the computer will automatically pick up the correct sensor without user input- and I can store a different circumference for each wheel.
But when I’m on my MTB I use different data than when I’m on my Road bike- it would be nice to have a different profile- one for MTB and one for road. I’m sure there are folks who would want other profiles as well. Let’s say the Road profile would display Speed/Avg Speed/Cadence/Distance/HR in that order, the MTB would preferably have Distance/Elapsed Time/Time of day/HR. I usually don’t care as much about my current speed or cadence on my MTB. Either I pick the profile with the app or even better the computer recognizes which sensor/bike is being used and it correctly picks the profile for that bike.
That would be cool.
So, you have to go through the “Pairing” process every time you switch to a different bike?
Or, here’s a scenario. You have 2 bikes – a road bike and MTB with separate sensors on each bike. Normally, you ride one bike or the other so the ELEMNT would just select the sensor on the bike your riding. BUT, what happens if I decide to go for a short ride around town with my road bike and my son rides my MTB? What does it do then seeing that all my sensors are going at the same time?
Merlin I have a similar two bikes and two sets of wheels for my road bike. I use strava to track and when ever i save a ride use the app to record the mileage on each item. If as you say your son goes out it depends who has the elemnt attached as the distance with bluetooth is not that far. If you are together then that would be interesting to see depending on the software. I was able to record a ride on strava on my phone and on the elemnt. Strava even thought I went out with another rider.
I have not tried a two bike scenario at teh same time though.
Well, yes, I’m concerned if we are riding side by side. Which sensors is it taking the data from because all sensors could in theory be with 10 ft of the ELEMNT. If that has NOT been tested, it should be. Plus, what would happen if he wears my heart rate monitor while we’re riding? Would his heart rate be recorded on my ride? These are the questions you have to ask…..
Merlin I agree that you have to ask those questions but most people buy the device for one bike or person? Are you saying that you want it for two or do not want to turn off devices if they are being used by someone else?
I’m just basically asking, “What is it going to record in this particular scenario?” And if they see that an enhancement or fix needs to be done, so be it. The heart rate thing probably will never happen but I know that both of my bikes might be riding side by side at some point in time this summer. Just want a reply from Murray for his view.
Think about how these work. The HR monitor sends out a signal indicating your HR. The ELEMNT pairs up with that unique radio signal. It has no way of knowing who is wearing it. If the HR strap is in range it’s going to pick up. Bluetooth range is 30′. Not sure about ANT.
I’m guessing the ELEMNT (or any computer) will be confused if it sees two speed data sets at the same time. I have mine paired with a different speed/cadence for two bikes but I’m not riding them simultaneously. I use on HR strap and it works no matter what bike I’m on.
Your best bet, I’m guessing, would be to unpair the sensors you don’t want recorded. Fortunately with the app it’s super easy to pair and unpair sensors.
From TFM:
link to support.wahoofitness.com
“In the event that multiple same-information sensors are being employed (e.g. two speed sensors), the ELEMNT uses a quality of data hierarchy to determine which sensors will be used to gather data during your workout. In this scenario, if one sensor should fail, the ELEMNT will automatically switch to the next data source and continue data gathering. Manual selection of a duplicated data source is not available.”
Thanks Rob, ok- forget that I mentioned the HRM. Yes, obviously it would track the other person’s heart beat if the monitor was within range. I get that. Once again, probably a far-fetched scenario. So, let’s just go back with 2 speed sensors (and 2 cadence sensors) that are within range – what does it do? I agree, the fix for this is to unpair the one set of sensors BUT………..what if you don’t???? That’s what I want to know. What kind of data will be recorded? Will it track the info from the first sensor it detects? Will it record an average of the 2 sensors? Will it not use the sensors at all and just use GPS? (in the case of the speed sensors) This is what I was wondering about and hoping to get an answer on.
Thank you for the answer TFM! That’s what I was looking for! So it picks up the data from the strongest sensor, and if that sensor dies, it picks it up from the other one immediately, and if that one dies, I assume it would use GPS for speed. And I guess if you lose GPS signal, you’re SOL! Thanks for the info!
I would really like to see, a video how GPX tracback works, for mountainbiking….
(Also when you take wrong turn etc, how do you get back on track, direction etc.
Cause I ‘m not impressed with most devices I’v seen so far….
One more question: during winter I use my Garmin 500 on the trainer. I have interval workouts setup that it takes me through (5 min at a specific cadence/speed, then 3 min at a specific cadence/speed etc). I don’t see that kind of functionality listed anywhere- will the ELEMNT support custom workouts? If it doesn’t, it looks like I can setup a workout in Cyclemeter- as long as the ELEMNT will work as an ANT+ bridge and will send my ANT+ speed/cadence data to the phone I can use Cyclemeter for my trainer sessions. Not all of us can afford a KICKR.
Otherwise I think it’s time to sell my Garmin. Thanks for the replies here.
I currently use Runmeter (Cyclemeter’s twin) and have it set up to do distance remaining for an interval, displayed on my RFLKT+. I asked the Wahoo folks if that could be done shortly after the ELEMNT was announced. I would love it if the ELEMNT would have that feature.
They said “The ELEMNT will use Live Segments, which will give you a distance remaining alert. This feature is not scheduled to go live on the ELEMNT until 1/2016.” They also said a premium subscription for Strava would be required.
I’m asked to see some additional information of the items available in the app, and Wahoo Murray said he’d put together some screenshots, but have not seen that yet.
The reason they (along with others) couldn’t do Strava Live Segments pre Jan 1st, 2016, is because Garmin has an exclusive with Strava prior to that. Further, Premium is required for such feature enablement, per Strava ‘rules’.
(I actually don’t have a problem with Strava drawing that line in the sand, I think it’s good that any business finds a way to make their operational long-term financially sustainable, since it certainly wasn’t trending that way before.)
Thanks for the insight, Ray.
However, that still doesn’t answer the question posted by Rob –
Can you use the app to setup custom workouts / intervals?
It sounds like he and I are looking to simply have it show a “distance remaining”, or “time remaining” for intervals.
I’ll defer to Murray for that one for now.
Pre-planned workouts are scheduled for Q1 2016.
Sorry Dan, Its just been insane here. Most of the screenshots are covered in Ray’s post or on our blog.
Thank you, Murray.
Thanks. Is it safe to assume ANT+ bridging? (i.e. My frame mounted ANT+ speed/cadence info gets sent to my phone app in real time). Or is that data sent at the end of the ride?
Not really ANT+ bridging. ELEMNT is in charge of the entire workout, its a 100% standalone bike computer that syncs the workout to the phone in real time. Think of the phone app as just a viewer.
Thanks. However it works- sounds like I can get it to do what I need it to do.
So if the device updates to phone in real time, will that kill phone battery?
Or if your phone dies whilst doing a ride, does that affect data recording?
And will device work if you forget your phone?
It will have very little impact on your battery, I don’t have exact number for you but it’s in the order of 1-3% per hour.
You only need the phone connection for Live tracking and configuring some settings, otherwise the ELEMNT will operate 100% independently of the phone being connected.
Cheers for the remarkably prompt response Murray.
Like many on here I’ve been looking for a decent alternative to garmin’s flakey offerenings.
May recommend this to girlfriend as she’s in market for a computer that can tell her where to go and I’ve been loathe to recommend a Garmin to her. The follow friend thing would be awesome as she could see where I am if I’m ahead or behind her though not sure if you’ve made an app for that yet if someone doesn’t have an Elemnt too. I want an Elemnt too, but already have a GPS device and a very long list of other things to buy before I can justify a replacement for the Garmin.
Though a return home ability if she navigates off route or cuts ride short may be essential as she has zero sense of direction. Will that be possible? It didn’t seem like it from other posts I read.
We are looking at options for people without ELEMNTs, we need to balance the battery usage (from GPS) on the phone.
We currently have no on-demand navigation features, but “Get me home” is on our list and its something we see as a popular feature request.
how does that 1-3% per hour compare to the battery usage on the RFLKT? I mean, would you say the RFLKT was in the range of 10% per hour?
RFLKT is a lot different, in that case the phone is recording the workout and thus using the GPS that consumes most of the power. 10-15% depending on you phone sounds about right.
ELEMNT only needs the phone to use low power Bluetooth so is significantly less. I would say most people wouldn’t even notice the difference compared with normal phone use.
Thanks. I know it’s totally different, but it’s also something that is a great comparison between the two. I had assumed it was perhaps an order of magnitude difference.
A ‘get me home option’ should be a high priority for those who use GPS devices for navigation. Firstly because if you need it, you really do need it. Secondly, it seems that reliance on GPS makes you even less capable of route finding, map reading etc. I have a really good memory for locations and can guess my way back or work out new routes quite easily, but most people I know are either not very good at that or completely useless at doing it themselves.
A possible simple [like anything ever is in reality] way would be to leverage the phone to find a route via whatever mapping app that can plot a route, which could then be uploaded to phone. Would it be possible to access say Google or Apple Maps to do this?
On a similar level, one of the features that Mio introduced and is one that is ideal for those who are not good with maps or if you are in a new area is the smart route creation facility. Which is a major selling point of that device over the Elemnt.
Again this could be done via the phone app.
Not only the Mio, also some of the Garmins, and my good old Bryton Rider 60. And when riding in unknown territory you really need it, no uses for “a good memory for locations”.
They can plot a route without the need for the phone (whose battery is quickly emptied by navigating), find home, etc. So not just riding a preplanned and uploaded route, but entering a new address while riding if needed (and I have needed this).
That’s why I decided for the Garmin 1000 for now, I will seriously consider the Elemnt when it can do the same thing or better!
I know other companies now use the feature and why I said *introduced* by Mio.
I also said handy for for those who are not good with maps OR if you in a location new to you.
I should point out that if like me you have a good memory for locations, that this applies to new ones too. I can always retrace any new route without problem and can happily simply ride out and take roads/trails at random without worrying about getting lost.
The Surprise Me feature is handy even so because it can do a circular route of a predetermined length, whereas it you head out randomnly in a new area and want to do a circular route of a certain length/time, the device can suggest some for you.
One question for DC Rainmaker- mind sharing the ‘message’ needed to make the Garmin mount accept the ELEMNT? I have a couple of nice aluminum mounts I’d like to keep using.
Massage. Autocorrect.
I’ll poke at one of the units I have now, because quite honestly I can’t remember now what I did to make it work. Hang tight…
Hi,
I just thought I would give everyone here a bit of inside information on the release of ELEMNT. Production has/is going well and we are currently working through the last couple items before we are happy to update the units and start shipping. Our iOS app was just approved by Apple, however we will need to submit an update before shipping starts.
We are working towards a release as soon as possible, I can’t give you any dates yet as we really just don’t know yet.
Thanks
Good to hear. Right now the ELMNT is on top of my “New bicycle computer for next season”-list. Just get it released before the 2016 road season starts (Which we all know starts with Omloop Het Nieuwsblad on the 27th of February) and you’ve got my business.
Hi Murray,
Up at the top of the thread you say
We don’t have support for user maps, we do store and display ALL roads/tracks/paths from OpenStreetMap data, its not a subset of the data like a lot of places. OSM is improving all the time and we will ship regular updates, if the demand is there we would definitely be open to supporting other map sources.
Can you look at supporting Open Cycle Map? I believe it is the same data source as Open Cycle Map but with the UK National Cycle Network highlighted in orange.
My wife has an Edge Touring which is both challenging and frustrating to use though she perseveres as we have managed to load OCM onto it. We would welcome an alternative and the ELEMNT looks promising.
That should read “Same data source as Open Street Map”
Its the same data set, just styled differently.
We have the UK National Cycle network included but since we only have a B+W screen its rendered the same as other bike paths.
That is excellent news. Thanks for the response.
Will the unit be able to display Pedal Smoothness and/or Torque Effectiveness?
We don’t yet support these values but they are on the todo list.
Wahoo Murray, great looking product with lots of promise. As has been said before, thank you for putting in all this effort to be responsive to your existing customer base and potential new customers.
Pricing feedback:
Would you please look into re-examining Australian pricing for your products so they are closer to equivalent US pricing? I have paid for all your KICKR, TickerX and RPM product at full retail prices yet don’t understand why supplying me a product like the ELEMNT costs $29 (that’s $40 Australian dollars today) more. For information, a leading competitor product in a bundle (speed, cadence, HR) would cost me AUD$489 (that’s net of postage) versus your price point of $499 for the head unit alone.
Thank you.
Happy to help. Did you know majority of the ELEMNT software development team is actually based in Australia/NZ. Cool stuff :-)
Pricing, its a difficult area and there is lots of things at play.
– Import Duties (most counties have these, so we will exclude this as a fact of life)
– Unstable exchange rates. Australia has had a diving exchange rate the last 12 months.
– Additional warehousing and distribution costs
– Sales Tax. This is the big one that everyone outside the USA forgets. All US prices include NO tax (added at checkout), but just about every other country in the world include the sales tax in the listed price.
$329 USD = $457 AUD (Today)
+ 10% GST = $502
So today, the ELEMNT is actually cheaper in Australia than in the USA. We always do our best to keep the impact as low as possible. Hope that information helps.
Any update on shipping or production?
I just received an email from Wahoo saying they will not include shipping to my country (Cyprus) which is in EU. Too bad….
Hey Wahoo Murray – I have been using a Polar CS500 for 3 years with HR strap and Speed Sensors. The CS500 came with two speed sensors for different bikes and has the ability to remember 3 different bikes which is a great feature.
Will the new Elemnt computer be compatible with the Polar WIND speed sensors? If No does the Elemnt have the ability to have multiple bike settings in the setup menu eg: Bike 1, Bike 2 and Bike 3 ?
Unfortunately Polar uses proprietary BT I think (WIND) as I have not found any other HR straps that will work with the Polar CS500 unit.
This is a key feature for those of us who may ride a 29er and 27.5 or other bike wheel size. I assume I will need to buy multiple speed sensors (one for each bike) or is there any alternative to doing so?
I bought the Tickr HR monitor and have had great success paired with Strava and MapMyRide. The missing link will hopefully be your new Elemnt unit.
Correct, the CS500 uses WIND and isn’t compatible with any other units.
The reason I ask why do you need bike profiles is because different people have different ideas why they need it.
– Just pair all sensors with the ELEMNT, no need to assign them into any groups, ELEMNT will connect to any saved seniors
– Wheel size is associated directly with a sensor so different bikes are no problem.
– We have planned for Q1 the ability to setup display profiles, this will allow you to configure different display setup for different reasons. Bike 1, MTB, Road, Race, Intervals etc.
Several reviews of this product claim “turn by turn” navigation yet there are no screen shots. I called Wahoo and the employee stated he didn’t believe they offered “turn by turn” and would check into it for me. Didn’t receive any communication back from him. Did you actually see this feature?
Hi Chuck,
We won’t be launching with turn by turn, the ELEMNT currently has On-Route / Off-Route detection and “distance to go”. We will be enabling Turn by Turn in Q1 for RideWithGPS routes but unsure about when we can support turn by turn from Strava as they don’t currently provide the cue sheets.
Would that require a RWGPS subscription as well like the rflkt? This would be getting expensive.
Hey there. So I’m a pretty casual rider and one of the reasons I’m interested in ELEMNT (aside from not being a huge fan of garmin) is that I want a device to help me ride routes that I’ve created on Strava’s route builder. How do you see ELEMNT being helpful in that regard? Thank you.
Matt, no you won’t need a premium account.
Raine, the ELEMNT will download all routes you make on Strava and let you get on-route / off-route notifications using the LEDs. You will also be able to see the route drawn on the map.
Thanks for the response. I am eagerly awaiting the shipment of my order!
Is the “distance to go” for the overall route, or can you set up intervals along that route, like planned rest stops (SAG), and have distance to go to SAG1, SAG2, etc.
Just to ask a related question about routes created with RwGPS – will the ELEMNT be able to show the distance to the next control point and display what the control point is?
Will it support custom control points added manually to the RwGPS cue sheet as well as the auto generated control points?
Also, if a POI has been added to the RwGPS route, will the ELEMNT display this as well?
I’m not sure if some of these questions have been answered.
I have been using Garmin for many years, for running and for cycling. The past few years, I have been less and less enamoured of them. In fact, my EDGE 1000 is currently in service and will be replaced by a refurbished unit.
I’ve been using a Tickr HRM and very happy with it. We all know the issues with the Garmin HRM Straps.
I just purchased the BlueSC Speed and Cadence Sensor, and that has not worked well. I can’t get the Wahoo App to find the sensors. Worked once and then hasn’t worked since. I see lights flashing when I turn the pedals (fixed gear track bike) but it’s not displaying the data on the Wahoo App. I removed my Garmin Sensor to mount the SC Sensor, so not happy about that.
How easy is it to go from bike to bike with the Elemnt?
Will it work with TrainerRoad?
I use a GoPro to film my rides, then use the .Garmin .FIT file to overlay the video which I edit in VIRB Edit (Yes, I have to use the Garmin Camera Software to edit GoPro videos because GoPro Studio can’t do it, and Dashware is Windows only)
Will ELEMNT generate the kind of file I can use with the GoPro? I saw something in the article about GoPro integration.
Thanks
Hi George,
Sorry that you are having issues with the BlueSC, does it not detect with your Garmin as well? Have you tried switching the battery out? Give our support a call or email and they will get it sorted ASAP.
ELEMNT comes with a collection of mounts and can be paired to multiple sensors so switching bikes is easy.
TrainerRoad: Their isn’t any direct integration with TrainerRoad but you can use it at the same time with no problems.
GoPro: You will be able todo the same thing with FIT files from the ELEMNT and we do have plans for some direction integration (Camera control/status) with GoPro in the future.
I appreciate that Wahoo monitors this site. It is getting quite close to January now so is there any update on probable shipping date??
Some questions:
1. Can I export/import my saved trainings to/from a Storage Provider App (Readdle Documents) on iOS or directly from/to a WebDAV server (every NAS supports WebDAV)?
Any Cloud is a No-Go!! I plan my trainings with Graphhopper on my Mac. Graphhopper doesn’t need any registration to plan routes and export them as a GPX file.
link to graphhopper.com
Also I use Garmin Training Center even for now to view my trainings, because I can easily backup my files to a USB drive and my NAS. My trainings belongs to me :-)
2. What export file format do I get? Fit? TCX? GPX? What file formats can be imported?
3. Can I use Elemnt completely without my iPhone? Saving my training sessions, GPS, Maps, Barometer…? Most of the time I drive w/o my iPhone.
4. Can I use map feature as a simple map? Is my position placed in the middle of screen to have an overview of the streets, even backward? Do I recognize the type of the street? Riding my road bike offroad is a No-Go, even some light Gravel streets are a No-Go.
Routing is ok for longer trips, but for training sessions a simple Map feature is enough. Sometimes I look for dry streets (not through a forest) or turn into a street I never ride before because it looks nice. Then I only want to know which options do I have to come back to a well known street :-)
Thanks! :-)
Hi Helmut
1. We don’t export directly to WebDAV but you can open any of our support files using the “Open In”, allowing you to copy the data anywhere you want.
1.b. You can import routes form anywhere but they do go via our cloud. We do have plans of sending routes over BT but it isn’t quite ready yet.
2. TCX, GPX, FIT, CSV, RAW and PWX
3. Yes, you can do all those things. Routes are automatically saved for offline use, Maps are stored on the device and all sensors are controlled by the ELEMNT. The iPhone provides you with connected features like live tracking and find my friends. Its also heavily used for configuration and review.
4. Yes you can see the map all the time, either pointing north or the direction of travel. We do render roads, trails and bike paths differently much like you see on OpenCycleMaps. (but in B+W)
Hope that helps.
Hi Murray,
thanks!
Hope there are some videos soon available about the map quality (different street types for/not for a road bike) and some informations about handling and how to import/export (and viewing) training sessions in batch mode. I don’t save every training session when at home.
Now I connect my Edge 1000 to my Mac and Garmin Training Center only imports the new training sessions.
Best regards!
Helmut
Looks like a great product. Nice to see some competition for Garmin.
But what would be even better is if Wahoo fixed the issues around the RFLKT+. Initial connections from Android take forever (if they happen at all) and ANT+ support for Android would also be appreciated.
Not sure the market really needs another expensive GPS bike computer when our Smartphones do the trick quite well. All that was really needed was a display unit that could go on the handlebars. That, was the RFLKT. So how about Wahoo ? How about putting some resources into fixing the issues ?
I haven’t had connection troubles with the Android/RFLKT world, and I’ve used it quite a bit. Certainly the more modern RFLKT firmware reduces battery consumption, which is nice. The biggest problem I’ve had is (a) no notification that my phone battery is about to die (via audio, the last thing I hear is the sensors disconnecting) and (b) the app crashing.
I use a Garmin as a backup source, and have written code that merges various files together so I can recover GPS and HRM/cadence type data.
Are you on Android ?
With the firmware 1.8.28, either it connects right away or it just hangs and I have to try again.
There is also a lag of 2-3 seconds when hitting the lap button..
The newest firmware is better then the old (minus the connection issue). The older firmware I’d get drops several times a ride.
My fear is that with the Elemnt, Wahoo will put their resources to the new device and leave The RFLKT+ out.. especially in regards to ANT+ support for Android.
Hi
We had some issues with the latest firmware and some Android devices and had to roll back the firmware update for Android users. We are working on another release.
Unfortunately the lag with the lap is due to latency in the BT connection on some devices and is one of the one of reasons we cannot support the ANT+ bridge on Android. We don’t have any plans to add support for the ANT+ bridge on Android due to compatibility issues not resources, sorry about that.
ELEMNT and RFLKT are targeted for 2 very different markets and we work hard to support all our products.
If you have any other specific problems I suggest you contact our support as they are much better at helping with customer support than me (i’m just a engineer)
Happy Holidays :)
The fact that an engineer in replying to questions on a random blog (albeit one that seems quite popular) is truly exceptional and the reason I’d prefer to give my money to wahoo instead of garmin.
Wahoo Murray – what are your primary target markets for each? I can’t decide what the beat unit for my needs is….Reflekt or Elemnt. I don’t really need the readily viewable GPS info. I typically use Strava on my iPhone 6 with Wahoo Tickr for MTB on my local trails that I know well. Key needs are large screen with Speed, HR, time or Lap Time / Lap # and cadence. I have any different MTBs so is there any limit to number of speed sensors either Reflekt or Elemnt can remember? What does avg Wahoo user do? Buy one speed sensor per bike or move / reattach to each bike when needed? I a beginning to think your Reflekt unit + speed sensor(s) and Tickr is the best data solution for my needs.
Thanks,
Brett in Michigan with cabin fever.
Hi Brett,
Well RFLKT and ELEMNT are 2 very different units. There is a long list of different features. Basically, ELEMNT is a standalone bike computer with GPS, Maps and a high visibility screen thats enhanced by a phone connection. RFLKT is simply a extended screen for your iPhone that always needs the phone connection to function. Thats a fairly simplistic view and feel free to call our support staff as they can discuss whats right for you in better detail than me.
Hi Murray,
Not sure you can answer this but I’ll give it a go anyhow. MEC in Canada (http://www.mec.ca) carries the RFLKT and another Wahoo item.. Any idea if they will be carrying the Elemnt?
The shipping to Canada is 35 USD and I know UPS will ding me with brokerage fees making it a very expensive GPS head unit..
Thanks.
Yeah not really something I know anything about, but if they are already stocking RFLKT I would guess they would stock ELEMNT. The best thing here is to contact MEC directly and ask them to stock it.
I hope Wahoo Murray is still watching this thread.
I manually upload all my ride performance data to Golden Cheetah by plugging my Garmin into my laptop, and importing the .tcx file from the mounted filesystem.
Will I be able to directly access the original .tcx file to do the same with the Elemnt, or will I only be able to re-download the file from some service (e.g. strava), which might “dumb-down” the file, or …?
I received a Garmin 810 for Christmas, and am considering returning it, and buying an Elemnt. But this is a must-have feature.
Hope Murray RSVP’s!
-jb
Always watching Jay.
You will be able to grab the FIT files over USB an import them into Golden Cheetah. FIT is a much better format and contains more data.
But still have support for autoupload to Dropbox, right? That’s what I do and then when I get home, I suck my Dropbox folder into GoldenCheetah.
Today, we don’t have auto-upload to Dropbox available. It’s currently disabled because we don’t have support on the ELEMNT to upload directly, only via the iOS app.
Thanks, Murray. And I think I *was* referring to .fit files (not .tcx). I just remembered incorrectly when I was posting my comment.
This tips it for me; I think I’ll return the Garmin 810 and get an Elemnt. Placing order today!
But really, the way I made my decision is this: Wahoo (you) seems committed to a more aggressive software plan than Garmin. Garmin has long made great hardware, but sub-par software. Part of this is because it must make software that works across dozens of devices. I believe this both slows down, and eliminates feature development. OTOH, Wahoo is making 1-2 bike computer devices, which makes it much easier to maintain a continuous feature deployment pace. I also think Wahoo’s (your) underlying assumption of leveraging the phone aggressively is smart.
Murray, your participation here is another great reason to jump on the Wahoo computer bandwagon. Garmin has never shown any interest in being interactive…. (BTW – instead of making DCR’s blog be your forum, why not get Wahoo to set up a Wahoo community site? Drupal Commons is a modern – and free – community platform: link to drupal.org )
There remain two features the 810 has that I’m going to lament not having on the Elemnt: Strava segment stuff (showing upcoming segment start, and “interesting” times associated with it), and “Take me home” navigation. I don’t know of there are device limitations that will keep these from being possible in the future.
Either way, an Elemnt purchase is a bet that software will emerge faster on it than on Garmin (about whose software I regularly complain…).
Thanks for the reply.
Any update on SmO2?
Sorry George, I missed your comments. We have one of our developers working on Sm02 at the moment, we should have it ready soon.
Will the ELEMNT be able to give turn-by-turn directions as well as Strava Live Segment updates simultaneously? It’s my understanding this is something Garmin currently cannot do.
We haven’t finished our Live Segment support but I can’t think of any reason why it wouldn’t.
I wanted to preorder one… Not possible any more, on the wahoo site? Reason: Would need it by the 14th of februari….
Lets wait and see…
We took down the pre-order and offered refunds once we knew we would miss the initial target date. We are getting VERY close and should have enough stock to meet demand once we start shipping. I will make sure everyone knows the minute I know.
Can Wahoo Elemnt run with ipodtouch 5? Wahoo cadence and speed sensor works fine with my ipodtouch 5. I hope that elemnt can work with ipodtouch 5.
As an owner of a sport blue-tooth headsets, I like the audio announcement feature of the wahoo app. I am curious about if the new elemnt unit supports audio announcement of turn by turn navigation to headsets, so that I don’t have to look at the screen of the unit.
Ewo, yes it will work find with any iOS device made in the last 4 years, they all have Bluetooth 4.0.
We have no plans to add support for BT audio at this stage.
Just got mine pre-ordered, very happy to say goodbye to my Garmin. Just one question at the moment: will there be any implementation of weather related information? Especially wind direction would be great to have.
As an owner of a sport blue-tooth headsets, I like the audio announcement feature of the wahoo app. I am curious about if the new elemnt unit supports audio announcement of turn by turn navigation to headsets, so that I don’t have to look at the screen of the unit.
Many thanks to @Wahoo Murray for his many detailed replies in this comments section. Like many here, I have suffered mental harmin’ from my Garmin (a first world problem, I know) and eagerly await what sounds to be an extremely well thought out device.
I have one quick question from a long distance cyclist’s perspective – will the ELEMNT run when connected to an external power supply (e.g. a USB phone charger)? I saw that someone else asked the same question, but I don’t think it was ever answered.
My pleasure John.
Yes, you can charge and use the ELEMNT while using it. The USB in on the bottom so you just need to use a mount/setup that gives you enough clearance, some other guys have been using 90deg USB connectors as well.
Much obliged for another quick reply!
I just noticed on the Wahoo website that the Elemnt will be shipping in early March (on the pre-order page). I’m one of many who have been holding out for this while my current Garmin 510 is dying a slow death (freezing, turning off mid ride etc). I wonder if the early March date will be met. I was willing to hold out until January but another 2 months may be stretching it. I can probably wait but will it definitely ship in March?
Where do you see that, link or screenshot? The EU sites still say “Coming soon” and Murray “VERY soon” above, a week ago.
This is what I see if you attempt to buy.
To me, it sounds as if the first round of pre-orders are still slated to ship this month.
If you had not already pre-ordered, it would be a March shipment.
But, I could be wrong.
Ok, thanks. I get redirected to eu.wahoofitness.com, where there’s no option for preorder at all. I assume you’re located in the US then. Not in a hurry though, I’m ok with my 510 at the moment, but will switch later this year.
Wahoo confirmed to me that March delivery is for new orders, not existing orders.
OK thanks, I have ordered through the LBS. Hopefully still on track for later this month then.
I’m in NZ and all I can see in the Australia store page is “coming soon”. Disappointing given that we are at the start of summer and could get a lot of use out of the unit in the next three to four months.
Any word on ELEMNT mounting options for the Madone 9, given its unique bar/stem setup? I’ve checked with K-Edge and a few others in November/December, but no one had anything yet. I was wondering if anyone might know of something.
Hi, any update on release date? Ta
None yet. I will be sure to post here the second I know.
Hi Murray
Appreciate the replies to all the technical questions, but please relay back to the sales team that the delays in any updated information on when the ELEMNT will ship is frustrating a lot of existing customers waiting to add to their Wahoo collection (or maybe that is just me?).
Has anyone at all received the unit? When can we expect to be able to order and get one in Europe?
Jeppe
Jeppe, Our entire team is doing our best to keep people updated, its difficult as the delays we are having do not have any finite time to be resolved. We don’t like to keep giving new dates until we are 100% sure they units are on the way to the warehouse.
Production is in full swing and once the first units start shipping in the USA we will be able to give dates for other markets.
I promise as soon as we have solid dates our sales/marketing team will publish them, for now the best I can do is keep answering any technical questions people have.
Thanks
Thanks, Murray, I do to some degree understand, but still would expect to have an indication of timeline. I guess my impatience is also a recognition to your team, that you have put together a unit that people are very interested in getting their hands on, which is nice :)
Hi Murray – thanks for all the great feedback and can’t wait for the release. Scrolling back i cannot locate the comment but i thought there was some discussion on pedal power meters & left/right differential?
I am also in the market for PowerTap P1’s – will the Elemnt work with that feature? If not is it a A,B, or C priority?
Yes, ELEMNT has full support for the P1 pedals.
Dang it Murray… your post just cost me $1100, I’m afraid.
Can’t wait for my ELEMNT to arrive :)
Hi Murray,
Will the ELEMNT support metrics like FTP Estimation, Recovery Time Estimation and VO2 estimates?
Thanks,
Kirk.
Hi Kirk,
These values are not support yet but are on the wanted list.
just got my element today but its only picking up one of the 2 power tap p1 power. my garmin 520 is picking up both so its’ not a pedal problem. do you have a solution for this?
The Edge 520 should only show a single PowerTap P1 system, not both pedals as seperate ANT power meters. Are you sure you see two?
sorry let me clarify. the 520 is picking up both pedals as a single ant+ entry at 100w. when the element is picking up only a single side at 50w.
There is a known problem with BT Left/Right power meters, please pair ELEMNT with the ANT+ data, it will show you the ANT+ ID when trying to pair. You might need to select “More” when on the sensor pairing page. The name of the sensor will be generic “Power Meter” rather than the Polar name.
thanks! exactly like you said, it was picking up a single side bluetooth. got it working by switching to the ant+ id.
Thanks for the tip! Is the issue only with the Elemnt or is it a more general BT problem?
Looks very interesting! UI appears to be very intuitive, being able to focus in on one or a few metrics during one part of the ride and then “zoom out” to include more during other parts of the ride is very cool. Phone-based set-up is likely much easier than my current Garmin 910XT.
How does the find-my-friend feature work? Do the friends have to have ELEMNT head units? Or is it part of a phone app?
My primary focus is power. Can metrics like 3 second and 30 second average power be displayed? Can NP be displayed? NP for an interval? I very much like the way the SRM PC7 handles intervals – push the button to start an interval, and the average/max power/HR/speed displayed is for the interval. When the interval is over, push the button, and it goes back to showing data for the whole ride. My Garmin 910XT does not work that way – they are all separate fields on separate screens which is difficult, but not impossible, to use for my training purposes. How does the ELEMENT deal with intervals?
I use WKO on my laptop. Does the ELEMNT download a file to my laptop that can be opened by WKO? Synching to Strava is nice, I don’t care about synching to all those other sites, but my primary requirement is loading into WKO for interval analysis, CTL and ATL tracking, etc.
Thanks!
Apologies, my last question was answered in a post above by Murray — it will download FIT files to my laptop which is what my Garmin does. Thanks!
Hi Jim,
“Find my Friends” – Right now its only for people using the ELEMNT but we have plans to roll it out as iOS and Android apps as well. So for now, your friends will just need to buy a ELEMNT :)
Power Fields – We have a wide range of power fields including those listed. We should have a full list posted sometime in the next week.
Intervals – We don’t have anything like that, it is a interesting idea but ELEMNT using the idea of “Laps” rather than intervals. I’ve made a note and it might be something we consider when we start working on structured workouts.
Export – Correct, You can grab the FIT files via USB.
Enjoy!
Hi. Wahoo Murray. May I add bluetooth audio of turn-by-turn navigation to the wanted list. That would make easier to navigate at night.
Will you be able to upload workouts to the Elemnt? I have recently started using this with my 510 (when it works properly) uploading my workouts for the week from Today’s Plan and find this useful. The lights indicating intensity on the Elemnt could work really well with this showing where my power is in relation to the the required intensity for the effort in each step of the workout. I currently get a message when I drift out of the desired zone (under or over).
Wahoo Murray – Thanks for the rapid and helpful response.
The SRM PowerControl does exactly what I want/expect when training. On the main screen, it shows power/HR/cadence/speed/time. Push one button and it shows average values for those fields, push again and it shows max values. The very, very cool thing is that when I start an interval, pushing the same button shows average values for the interval and pushing it again shows the max values for the interval. I guess they are dynamically set based on what mode the PC is in.
When I’m doing 1 minute, 5 minute, 10 minute, 20 minute intervals, it is very cool to see current/average/max values for the interval without those having to be separate “Lap” fields that aren’t useful when not doing an interval and require a crowded screen when doing an interval. The Garmin 910XT implementation of “Laps” is interesting for the casual rider, but very cumbersome for actually training with power.
If you haven’t seen how the SRM PC handles intervals, I’d highly encourage you to take a look. It is also possible to scroll through up to 7 or 8 completed intervals during the ride (I’ve forgotten, I just scroll to see how my average power compares to see if I’m getting over-cooked and it’s time to quit).
The SRM PC screens/functionality do a great job of supporting power-based training. The Garmin “Lap” function does not. It would be well worth reviewing the SRM PC functionality for the ELMENT if your goal is to support training with power. That is my goal in buying a new head unit for my new Powertap P1 pedals. I’m temporarily using the Garmin 910XT, but will be replacing it.
Upon re-reading DC’s review, it appears the “Profile” function would be helpful for the interval training I posted about. Not quite the same — requires picking menus which is less intuitive than just having the head unit change on the fly — but looks like it would work.
The use of the word “profiles” caused another question — what is required to swap from one bike to another? Will the ELEMNT keep track of multiple bikes so the rider doesn’t have to pair the speed/power sensors when swapping bikes? Or will switching from my road bike to my CX or TT bike required pairing to the different bike’s power and speed units? Not a huge hassle, but it would be cool to be able to just choose “Bike 1” or “Bike 2” or “Bike 3” like Garmin and SRM PC8 (not the PC7 which I own, so I currently have to re-pair).
Which app would have the “find my friends” feature in the future?
The reason I ask is because to even start using the Elemnt app, you have to pair it with an Elemnt. I was excited to see the app on the Apple App Store, but disappointed I could not even explore the features of the app without the Elemnt.
Hi,
this device looks awesome! Thinking about buying it. Is there an integration for komoot routes planned?
Thanks!
I haven’t seen Komoot before but I just had a quick play and it looks like a great website. I can’t see any public API and I am not sure if we would add direct support but it easy to import routes from Komoot from the iOS/Android app to ELEMNT or by importing the GPX file via USB.
Ive pretty much given up on this product in the UK. I held off last September from buying a Garmin when i saw this but release dates were November…then December..then January..now its March. Im not actually convinced this product will get to full production this year and ive given up waiting.
Theres no reviews of it anywhere apart from here, no videos on YouTube from users, it doesnt fill me with confidence so its a Garmin for me im afraid, i cant lose another 6 months waiting for this.
I pre-ordered one in the UK on 19th December expecting January deliver.
But shortly afterwards the website changed to show a March delivery. I emailed Wahoo Support who told me that was only for new orders at that point and I should receive mine in January. So thats what I’m expecting. Doesn’t sound like you’ve ordered one? I guess if you are waiting for production to ramp up enough so that retailers have stock, it might still be a few months.
Dex.
Very keen on Elemnt, but on the Aus/NZ site there’s no mention of when the device will be available or an option to pre-order. What is on my mind however is that my Strava Premium is up for renewal next month and they’re offering a very attractive price on a Garmin 520 if you renew and buy the unit together. I’d really like to see Wahoo get this sorted out as I want their unit to go with my Kickr over NZ autumn/winter.
I’m in the same boat. After cursing out my RFLKT+ for the last time this weekend, I’m going to order a Garmin 520 this week. First, my Ticker X was supposed to have swim support but it doesn’t even work under water for HR and they never released swim metrics. Then the RFLKT+ started crashing in the middle of long rides with the May update. They seem to have got that squared away by November but it crashed this weekend after 3 hours. Plus, the battery randomly dies… Support has helped me to get it re-paired with the phone when it will not boot up right, but this is ridiculous. Murry, feel free to reach out to me at my username @gmail.com if you would like to discuss further. I was really looking forward to the better mapping (than Garmin 520’s measly 24MB) and email notifications from work when I’m on-call, but I’ve had too many problems to be able to A) wait any longer or B) trust that they will keep the software stack functional through the life of the product.
How cold temperatures can one expect ELEMNT to survive for extended periods?
Would a ride in -10°C quickly kill the battery?
ELEMNT is tested for operation for -20C to +60C. I’m just waiting for some specific figures, but typically at -20C you are looking at 50-70% of the original battery life.
Shipping date now estimated at early march ? Will there be anybother features added for this date e.g Strava live segments ?
If you’re looking at the Wahoo site, that is for new orders.
Any news about European /Dutch delivery?
I am considering a Garmin 1000, but wanting to try this one if it arrives soon!
I’m very curious as wel. In the same position to take te shot for the edge or go for the wahoo to be ready for the start of the european season.
Here’s their response to my question on their Facebook page: “It will likely be March/April for the euro site. Make sure you sign up for notifications to be the first to know when it’s in stock!”
March / April….? By then the season has already started here!
Feels like they are losing precious momemtum here. Too bad because I very much sympathize with their products. Can’t they send me a test-unit for bridging the gap? ;-)
Quick question: Being cursed with a windows phone are the screens configurable through the unit itself? Or does one have to creatively borrow a IOS/Android phone for setup?
Does it support controlling music on the iPhone like the RFLKT?
Two very specific questions that I need answered to decide if I buy this or the Garmin:(I will need to pre-order)
1. When will structured workouts/on unit interval features/training calendar be available on this product
2. In the US, if i have not yet ordered when will the product ship to me if I order today (assuming I hear that question #1 functionality is already available)
I assume everyone just got the same email about another delay/uncertain delivery on the ELEMNT? 28 JAN 2016.
I think I’m done waiting… Garmin 1000 is likely my target. :(
So disappointed.
Got no email, but nevertheless just decided for the Edge 1000!
Partly not wanting to wait, partly not certain about the navigation capabilities.
Just cancelled my order, and purchased a Garmin. Something just ain’t right here. This might *become* the greatest cycling computer ever…. but if there are so many problems in production, I can only imagine what the first batch of deliveries/customers might face. :(
Add me to the pissed off column. The vague updates leave a lot of doubt in my mind.
Very disappointing indeed, but I’m hanging in there as I want the device.
What’s most disappointing is the lack of indication of the new anticipated delivery date, beyond some vague reference to “old man winter”. The $20 voucher to spend with Wahoo really doesn’t float my boat much :-/
Dex
I’m disappointed with the delays from Wahoo and may end up having to purchase something else but at least Wahoo are holding off the release until they get it right (unlike some Garmin releases). I think I would prefer that they hold off until it is right rather than release it with known problems that only get fixed months down the track with firmware updates. Imagine the complaints if they had released on time but full of bugs.
“The $20 voucher to spend with Wahoo really doesn’t float my boat much :-/”
Exactly! I already own two KICKRs and a bucket full of Wahoo sensors… I’m not looking for anything else. I’m also not thrilled they charged my credit card back in October for the two units that I ordered. I think the right thing to do is charge the card when it ships. This is starting to feel like KickStarter.
I agree with this sentiment. It’s much better for this product’s future if they deliver a solid, bug-free piece of equipment than come out with something half-assed that gathers poor reviews and sets a bad first impression, even if those issues could theoretically fixed with firmware updates.
Got the email. I’m disappointed but not surprised0 these things happen when you announce a product before it’s ready to ship.
I’m willing to wait for it. For those who aren’t, buy my garmin touring plus instead so I can get rid of my only piece of Garmin.
I will continue to wait. I’ve never owned a Garmin, and never plan to.
For those that are also content to wait, and if you need something now, use the 20 buck coupon and get a RFLKT to use with your smart phone.
I’ve done that for years, and am extremely happy with that.
I plan on using both the RFLKT and the ELEMNT once it ships.