Today Garmin introduced a full color mapping GPS wrist watch that doubles as a multisport watch – making for the first time they’ve merged the multisport world with their historically separate handheld mapping units. This new unit – the Garmin Epix – employs a touch screen (as well as regular buttons) to allow you to navigate on full color downloadable maps as well as Connect IQ apps. But more importantly to this segment here, it’s a fully functional GPS sport watch containing every single feature of the FR920XT and just announced Fenix3 watches. It’s effectively the ultimate single Garmin GPS device containing everything minus the kitchen sink.
I’ve had some very brief hands-on time with a prototype Epix unit to get the run through on the key features. Expect a much deeper review in a few months once it releases.
(Note: Garmin has also announced other products today including the Garmin Fenix3 GPS watch, the Garmin Vivoactive GPS smartwatch, and the Vivofit2 activity tracker.)
Main Features:
The first thing to understand is that it has every single software function of the Fenix3 (which in turn, has every software function of the Forerunner 920XT). There are some hardware differences though, mostly positive, but one negative (no WiFi). On the positives, first is that the Epix has the larger 1.4” full color touch screen. The main point of this enlarged screen being to display maps like above.
These maps can be purchased as part of an Epix bundle, or downloaded separately from either Garmin.com (paid) or free 3rd party sources (just like the Garmin Edge series). So you definitely aren’t limited to Garmin’s semi-costly maps, which is great news. That moves right into the next piece, which is storage. The unit contains 8GB of storage for maps, which should be plenty for just about any expedition out there. You can’t extend the storage, which is likely due to the increased 50m waterproofing and difficulty they’d have otherwise properly waterproofing a micro-SD card port.
Because the Epix carries with it the expanded navigation feature set of the Fenix3, it has a much higher focus on hiking and related activities. This includes features not found in the base FR920XT, like the Sight ‘N Go capability as well as the TracBack functions. Further, unlike the FR920XT you can control the zoom levels and change it as required on the fly.
For the triathletes in the house though, you weren’t left behind. As noted above, it carries with it all of the triathlon-focused functionality found in the new Fenix3 and the FR920XT (for those who haven’t read the Fenix3 post yet, all you really need to know is that there’s nothing new tri-specific software-wise that’s not in the FR920XT already).
The included multisport functionality means that you can take the watch out into openwater and track swims just as easily as navigating in the offseason in the mountains with Topo maps.
The same goes for activity settings, sensors and profiles – all of that is retained from the FR920XT. While the watch is no doubt bigger (in every way) than the slim and sleek FR920XT, it doesn’t feel much different than the older FR910XT from a size standpoint. So if the FR910XT didn’t bother you, I doubt the Epix will either.
Now, there is one hardware feature that strangely isn’t found in the Epix watch – which is WiFi. Despite being available in all other recent high-end Garmin units, it didn’t make the cut for the Epix. Fear not though, you’ve still got USB as well as Bluetooth Smart. So you can still transfer routes and what-not via your phone, just like with the Fenix series.
And finally, just like every other new Garmin device over about $200 these days, it supports Garmin Connect IQ. This means you can download Garmin Connect IQ apps, watch faces, widgets and data fields to the Epix. There’s already a number of companies (big and small) working on apps, which I’ll dive into in a post later this week.
Now, it’s probably getting a bit confusing with some of these recent models as to how the FR920XT, Fenix3, and Epix all differ. In many ways, they’re basically the same base functionality with the material aspects of the watch and navigation capabilities being the major differences. Here’s a nifty little somewhat over-simplified overview of the differences that I whipped up:
But, for those of you who are more spec oriented, here’s the full rundown of specs. Note that my charts don’t fully cover materials yet (like the glass front, bezel, and band types), so this is more from a technical feature set level. Also note that for the Epix series there are two models. The first is at $549US without detailed maps, and the second is at $599US with the TOPO US 100K maps. Keep in mind though you can easily download free maps from the interwebs, so I wouldn’t let that bother you too much.
| Function/Feature | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix |
|---|
| Copyright DC Rainmaker - Updated April 29th, 2021 @ 4:56 am New Window |
| Price | $249 | $499 | $549 |
| Product Announcement Date | Oct 1st, 2014 | January 5th, 2015 | January 5th, 2015 |
| Actual Availability/Shipping Date | Early Oct 2014 | February 2015 | May 2015 |
| GPS Recording Functionality | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Data Transfer | USB/Bluetooth Smart/WiFi | USB/Bluetooth Smart/WiFi | USB/Bluetooth Smart |
| Waterproofing | Yes - 50m | Yes - 100m | Yes - 50m |
| Battery Life (GPS) | UP TO 40HRS IN GPS | Up to 50hrs in GPS | Up to 50hrs in GPS |
| Recording Interval | 1s or Smart | 1S OR SMART | 1S OR SMART |
| Alerts | Vibrate/Sound/Visual | Vibrate/Sound/Visual | Vibrate/Sound/Visual |
| Backlight Greatness | Great | Great | Great |
| Ability to download custom apps to unit/device | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Acts as daily activity monitor (steps, etc...) | Yes | Yes | Yes |
Music | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Can control phone music | No | Yes | Yes |
| Has music storage and playback | No | No | No |
Connectivity | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Bluetooth Smart to Phone Uploading | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Phone Notifications to unit (i.e. texts/calls/etc...) | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Live Tracking (streaming location to website) | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Emergency/SOS Message Notification (from watch to contacts) | No | No | No |
| Built-in cellular chip (no phone required) | No | No | No |
Cycling | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Designed for cycling | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Power Meter Capable | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Power Meter Configuration/Calibration Options | Yes | Yes | YEs |
| Power Meter TSS/NP/IF | Yes | Yes | YEs |
| Speed/Cadence Sensor Capable | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Strava segments live on device | No | No | No |
Running | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Designed for running | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Footpod Capable (For treadmills) | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Running Dynamics (vertical oscillation, ground contact time, etc...) | With HRM-TRI or HRM-RUN | With HRM-TRI or HRM-RUN | With HRM-TRI or HRM-RUN (Gen1 only, no Gen2 Running Dynamics) |
| VO2Max Estimation | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Race Predictor | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Recovery Advisor | Yes | Yes | YEs |
| Run/Walk Mode | Yes | Yes | Yes |
Swimming | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Designed for swimming | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Openwater swimming mode | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Lap/Indoor Distance Tracking | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Record HR underwater | With HRM-TRI/HRM-SWIM | WITH HRM-TRI/HRM-SWIM | WITH HRM-TRI/HRM-SWIM |
| Openwater Metrics (Stroke/etc.) | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Indoor Metrics (Stroke/etc.) | Yes | YEs | Yes |
| Indoor Drill Mode | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Indoor auto-pause feature | No | No | No |
| Change pool size | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Indoor Min/Max Pool Lengths | 17M/18Y TO 150Y/M | 17M/18Y TO 150Y/M | 17M/18Y TO 150Y/M |
| Ability to customize data fields | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Captures per length data - indoors | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Indoor Alerts | Yes | Yes | Yes |
Triathlon | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Designed for triathlon | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Multisport mode | Yes | Yes | YEs |
Workouts | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Create/Follow custom workouts | Yes | Yes | YEs |
| On-unit interval Feature | Yes | YEs | Yes |
| Training Calendar Functionality | Yes | Yes | Yes |
Functions | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Auto Start/Stop | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Virtual Partner Feature | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Virtual Racer Feature | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Records PR's - Personal Records (diff than history) | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Tidal Tables (Tide Information) | No | No | Only with Garmin Bluechart g2 maps (extra) |
| Weather Display (live data) | Yes | Yes | With Connect IQ |
Navigate | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Follow GPS Track (Courses/Waypoints) | Yes | YEs | Yes |
| Markers/Waypoint Direction | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Routable/Visual Maps (like car GPS) | No | No | Yes |
| Back to start | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| Impromptu Round Trip Route Creation | No | No | No |
| Download courses/routes from phone to unit | Yes | Yes | Yes |
Sensors | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Altimeter Type | Barometric | Barometric | Barometric |
| Compass Type | Magnetic | Magnetic | Magnetic |
| Optical Heart Rate Sensor internally | No | No | No |
| Heart Rate Strap Compatible | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| ANT+ Heart Rate Strap Capable | Yes | Yes | YEs |
| ANT+ Speed/Cadence Capable | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| ANT+ Footpod Capable | Yes | Yes | Yes |
| ANT+ Power Meter Capable | Yes | Yes | YEs |
| ANT+ Lighting Control | No | No | No |
| ANT+ Bike Radar Integration | No | No | No |
| ANT+ Trainer Control (FE-C) | No | No | No |
| ANT+ Remote Control | No (can control VIRB though) | No (can control VIRB though) | No (can control VIRB though) |
| ANT+ eBike Compatibility | No | No | No |
| ANT+ Gear Shifting (i.e. SRAM ETAP) | No | | |
| Shimano Di2 Shifting | Yes | Coming in update | No |
| Bluetooth Smart HR Strap Capable | No | No | No |
| Bluetooth Smart Speed/Cadence Capable | No | No | No |
| Bluetooth Smart Footpod Capable | No | No | No |
| Bluetooth Smart Power Meter Capable | No | No | No |
| Temp Recording (internal sensor) | No | Yes | Yes |
| Temp Recording (external sensor) | No | Yes | Yes |
Software | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | PC Application | Garmin Express | Garmin Express | Garmin Express |
| Web Application | Garmin Connect | Garmin Connect | Garmin Connect |
| Phone App | iOS/Android/Windows Phone | iOS/Android/Windows Phone | iOS/Android/Windows Phone |
| Ability to Export Settings | No | No | No |
Purchase | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Amazon | Link | Link | Link |
DCRainmaker | Garmin Forerunner 920XT | Garmin Fenix3 | Garmin Epix | | Review Link | Link | Link | Link |
If you’d like to compare in other models – like the now older Fenix2, you can do that within the product comparison tool/calculator over here.
A Small Gallery:
Here’s a handful more photos I have of the device. Keep in mind that at the time I shot these (early January), features and functionality was fairly limited as it was/is still early in the beta cycle. Down the road once I have a final production device I’ll include more photos and videos.
Also note that because it’s beta, things typically change a little bit.
A few initial thoughts:
The strategy that Garmin has started to roll out with is to effectively establish a common base watch (the FR920XT) and then add higher end differentiating levels beyond that (the Fenix3 and Epix). Each higher level encompasses all features of the lower level units. This is somewhat different than the past where separate Garmin divisions would create different offerings that resulted in frustrated consumers having to pick between a fitness watch and an outdoor handheld unit. Now, you can effectively get a single device that contains it all.
Of course, to get it all…you’ll certainly be paying for it. With a starting price at $549US, the Epix certainly isn’t cheap. But it is cheaper than having to buy a FR920XT at $449 and then another navigation device for yet another $300-$400. So I suppose viewed in that lens it’s….a bargain? Now with all these devices the piece I’m actually most excited about is the app component with Connect IQ. Having seen some of the initial apps including a ski resort app (lift/slope/run information), a personal safety app, and a weather app – these 3rd party companies are definitely going in the right direction. And that’s before we get into some of the cooler sensor gathering apps like Moxy and what I suspect we’ll see for other unique sensor types over the next few months.
As noted earlier, the Epix will be available in Q1 2015, though expect that to be as close to the bounds of Q1 as possible (i.e. March). And of course, because my time with the Epix was far more limited than normal – I have no idea if it’ll have any hardware teething issues. With a touch screen display, that’s always a concern – especially since this particular model hasn’t been recycled from any other Garmin product lines yet.
As always – feel free to drop any questions below and I’d be happy to track down the answers. Thanks for reading!
Pre-Orders:
Note: You can pre-order the Epix through Clever Training today, as well as various accessory bands. The units will ship as soon as Garmin starts shipping, which is currently slated for Q1 2015.
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Welcome to CES 2015! Don’t forget to check out all my CES 2015 coverage, as well as my continual updates throughout the day on Twitter. It’s gonna be a crazy busy week!
Hi folks,
Garmin Epix Review
link to youtube.com
Herzlichst! Naomi
Garmin Epix vs Polar V800
link to youtube.com
Great, I watched his unboxing yesterday, but it was in Dutch, so I didn’t understand a word he was saying. Glad he switched to English :).
I’ll just leave these two here:
Epix Unboxing Video: link to youtu.be
First Run GPS Comparison (Half Dense City, Half Trails): link to mygpsfiles.com
(Update: I’ve placed all my comparisons here in this nifty table: link to dcrainmaker.com)
Note: Both the F3 and Epix were new out of box from retail stores, then updated with latest public firmware. I set both to 1s recording and both to GLONASS on. I did not change any default altimeter settings on either however (I normally do, just didn’t think to). On the V800, no additional calibration done (for better or worse).
Hmm, there seems to be corner cutting in some places like people complain that the F3 is doing. It’s annoying that mygpsfiles doesn’t allow good close ups of the track, but I see the Epix track is on Strava. Were you on pavement the whole time or are there paths that don’t show on Strava’s (Google’s) map there.
Once I entered the forest I was mostly trying to avoid pavement. A few seconds where I ran on it, and then would dip onto trails that crossed it, or trails that were a few meters alongside the pavement. Many (most?) don’t show up on Google Maps unfortunately.
mygpsfiles does allow close ups. Just switch Google Maps into Satellite mode and you can get really close up.
Ray, seems like V800 produces much smoother track with superior precision. Epix is not too bad (just look at first switchback at the car park), Fenix3 is poor.
Just tick the “terrain” option on the map off and you’ve got the full range of zoom.
Hi,
I see the differences between V800 and the other Garmins (F3 and Epix) in the DISTANCE.
Have you test and compare the new gamins with the 910 IN distance?
I have a 910 and I’m very worried about the assurance in the distance of the Fenix3.
Anyone else?
Thanks
Hi folks,
Garmin Epix In Depth – Navigating Maps Functions
link to youtube.com
`n Lachen und`n Knuff!
Naomi
That video is not a compelling sales pitch. The way the reviewer was fumbling with the buttons, and couldn’t get it to reliably do what he wanted was pretty damning. It’s funny how in some categories “good enough” is actually good enough. I haven’t seen anything compelling enough to warrant the replacement cost of my trusty FR620.
Hi Folks,
my first impression of my “Girl Friday”(I hope it will become one :-) )
it needed more time to understand it ,comparing with Fenix 2, FR620,FR 920xt or Polar RS 800(of course) )
the touch is ok, but not as good as FR620 one( if you are a lucky man having got FR 620 with good one)
Readability in sunlight and at night Epix is much much better than FR620 is, but not as good as FR 920xt(especially the numerals are bigger, broader, wider on 920 than on Epix)
Watchstrap of Epix is real horror ! IMVHO! I like the watchstrap of Fr 620 and also of FR 920xt but I hate the one of Epix. It seems to be a different material, something like pure gum or rubber and it feels not good on my skin.While running that feeling becomes even wores ,My skin sweats a lot under the watchstrap and the material feels even more disgusting than if it´s dry.
Not for daily use if your are a woman with small wrist or if you don´t like wearing a rock on your wrist all day long ;-)
Seid herzlich gegrüßt!
Naomi
So I’ve had my Epix for 1 week now. Ive used it for running, mountain biking and hiking. I purchased it because of the map capabilities when out in the woods.Needless to say I’m not impressed. The watch constantly under-performs. I dont know if its because of the processor, the amount of RAM or the software.
Here is video of the amount of lag I see on the watch. You can see the maps take forever to catch up. Also at times the watch just freezes and buttons or touches don’t work until it catches up. When it catches up you see that instead of going “back” it uses the lap function because its lagging behind.
link to youtube.com…ature=youtu.be
That video was taken during my overnight hiking trip. You can also see that for the 4 data screen page the elevation is halfway into the 1st data screen too. Easy fix by Garmin but should have not been missed in testing. You can also see that if you have the elevation field in the left 2 boxes it will be cut off as seen here. link to drive.google.com…ew?usp=sharing
It should read “3759” but instead reads 759 because the 3 is cut off.
Also of note, maybe its just user error but when I got into my campsite i pressed stop and “resume later” Just to make sure i put it on my external charger for a couple min just to get it back to full. Well when I did that it apparently restarts because in the morning i went to resume the activity and i couldn’t. It was saved and I had to restart another one. Wasnt happy. Im not sure why you cant resume any activity you have saved anyway?
The bottom line is I just dont think I can justify the $550 on a device that has these performance issues. I just dont think the Epix is ready for prime time. My 2 year old Suunto Ambit 2 does most of what the Epix does except for Maps. But if the Epix Map capabilities are not really usable then it defeats the purpose. So I think unfortunately I am going to return my Epix and keep using my Suunto because the Epix doesn’t performance like I thought/hoped it was going to.
Opps, must of messed up something. Anyway heres the link to the video and picture of the comment.
video
link to youtube.com
picture
link to drive.google.com
What maps do you have on it?
I have Northeast 24k. Its not bad when sitting here at my desk but during an activity with GPS and whatever else it lags like you see on the video.
There are basically two users posting videos on youtube right now of their Epix, you and a guy in Belgium and both units are showing the most excruciating lag that goes on for minutes so it’s not a once off. I do think it can be fixed with software because the maps are fluid zooming in and out so the processor seems up to the job but needs optimisation with the panning feature. I agree with you though that this is not ready for release at this stage.
See here:
link to youtube.com
Hi folks,
I did not yet tested map function , but he did one week now. he has used it for running, mountain biking and hiking and did a video:
Garmin Epix Map Lag
link to youtube.com
text here:
link to forums.garmin.com
Herzlichst!
Naomi
Ups! I beg your pardon! Haven´t seen the posts above. My laptop was laging…
The whole map set or just a part?
Its the northeast, its a region map. I didnt have option to install just a state or two. Regardless it comes in at 3gb and the watch holds 8gb of data so it shouldnt be a problem. I also still have 4gb left of space on my watch since I dont have any other maps installed.
MapInstall will give you that option, but BaseCamp doesn’t. (You’re newtonfb on the Garmin forums?) I have the 24k US Northeast TOPO maps, and when my Epix arrives from Clever Training next month I had planned to put them on, but only a few states worth. I’m wondering if the map set is too complex for the Epix to handle the entire thing, because the 100k’s that are packaged with the Epix have less detail and aren’t routable, even though they cover a much wider area. I get a free month of beta testing from the people who took advantage of the REI exclusive before I have to try, so I’m trying to learn as much as I can about it in the meantime. If the 24k TOPO’s don’t work reliably, even just a portion, I’ll try openmtbmap.
I never assume a new Garmin device will work properly and reliably for at least a few months after it’s released, and I won’t actually need my Epix until November at the earliest. It’s my cross country skiing watch, and typically I don’t get to ski until December.
Yea thats me. I guess I should just change my name on here to match.
Yea the 24k do have a lot of detail so the watch might notbhave enough juice to use them. As I stated before the maps are pretty fluid just using during non activity but when you’re in activity when GPS is on is when I experience the lag.
I haven’t tried the osm. I just can’t justify $600 if the main feature doesn’t work like expected for me.
I’m SCHINDER on the forums (last name).
One thing that Garmin topo maps do on Garmin devices, including the Epix I believe, is relief shading to bring out the topography. That might be processor intensive enough to make a difference, although my Edge 800 seems to handle it OK (OTOH, the shading is not very pronounced there). So there’s a possibility that OSM maps might work better.
There is no terrain shading on the Epix. At least not currently and I would be suprised if Garmin added it.
The map lag noted in the YouTube video above is not what I’ve experienced. That lag was ridiculously long. Map lag for me is no more than 1-2 seconds max. I have my issues with the Epix, for sure, but map lag is not one of them.
Good to hear but which maps and how much have you loaded on it? Also, curious what are the other issues you allude to?
Maybe the 24k usa topo makes problems on the epix? The map scrolling on the topo germany v7 winter map (routable, about 2,7 gb, 1:25000) is fast, 1-2 seconds, too. Nothing to be worried about for me.
Did some more test with route calculation. I set a wp 30 km away from my home.
With the routable topo germany v7:
Hike mode: 24 seconds
Bike mode: 1 min 20 seconds
Car mode: 1 min 37 seconds
for the route calculation.
With cn nt germany map:
Hike mode: 12 seconds
Bike mode: 31 seconds
Car mode: 20 seconds
for the route calculation.
With openmtbmap germany:
Hike mode: 17seconds
Bike mode: 1 minute 29 seconds
Car mode: 1 minute 23 seconds
for the route calculation. Did every calculation 3 times and took the average of time.
The route calculation depends also on the enabled avoidances, so it is not easy to compare the times from different users.
Not bad, I think. For bike it could be a little faster…
Dear Ray,
would you please so kind and cancel my posts #578 , #579 and this one.
I wanted that matter discussing, not seen that was already posted.
I beg your pardon!
Herzlichst!
Naomi
Ray, I don’t suppose you could consider adding page numbers to this site because scrolling to the bottom of the comments on my tablet is like a gym workout right now.
Switch to mobile view and new comments will be at the top of comments instead of bottom
Dear Kyle,
please can you explain how you switch “mobile view” ?
my laptop runs on Windows 8.1
thanks a lot!
Herzlichst Naomi
You can just select the scroll bar on the right and drag it to the bottom in a second.
I would really prefer not having pages. I like being able to read all the comments on one page.
I found a workaround as I also use Windows 8.1 with a tablet and it was bookmarking a comment eg.
link to dcrainmaker.com
I just spoke with REI and am having a return label sent – I went on an 80 mile ride this week and the maps were taking as long as 20 seconds to load when I had a course loaded into the watch. The watch turned off the very first time I loaded the course and it also shut off once during my ride at about 60 miles in.
Now to decide between the Fenix 3 and the 920xt – I loved my 310xt but I do not understand what benefits that the Fenix 3 provides that the 920 doesn’t :)
Hi BL
I had a 920 and sold it for a fenix3. if you want a sports watch for running etc get the 920xt if you want a everyday,hiking,sports watch get the fenix3.
For running I liked my 920xt I just found it easer to read but as an EDW it looked a little strange. I have a epix on pre order but after reading what its like I found myself seeing what deal I can get on a 920 and use it just for running and the fenix for all other.
Do you need to know temp?
Thanks for replying :)
I had the 310xt and to be honest, I really didn’t need to update at all but I liked the Open Water function that the 920XT can provide and then my 310XT started acting up so I was about to buy the 920 back in Feb when I saw that the Epix was announced. I don’t need to know the temp, I don’t hike at all, and I have a Fitbit Charge that I wear as my everyday watch.
I purely need this for Swimming, Riding, Running. I liked the Epix because of the mapping, but after loading the 24k and having it lag very poorly, then removing the 24k and only using the 100k, it was alright except for when I loaded a course – it has been very slow loading maps. There were multiple points where the map was completely blank because it had not loaded yet. There were multiple times during my ride where I tried to switch data pages and it wouldn’t respond at all, then it would flip through three pages really quickly because that is how many times I hit the button – but sometimes it would wait 20 seconds (literally) before doing any of that. When the lap notification would come up, the any time over an hour was skewed and looked like gibberish (like the numbers were laid over each other because there wasn’t enough room to fit an hour indicator). At one point during my ride, I paused the workout during a break, when I started it back up, it started a completely different activity when I hit the “Resume” option. Also, on two different occasions when I loaded the course, it restarted the watch and I had to load the course again.
Way to many glitches for comfort. I have been waiting and waiting with excitement for this watch to release but am starting to think the 920XT should have been my option from the get go.
Hi All-
For those interested in Epix GPS data comparisons, I’ve consolidated all of my data to date (albeit just since Saturday) into a single semi-temporary comparison page & table: link to dcrainmaker.com
It includes the distances of all devices I was wearing for each activity, plus a link to MyGPSFiles with all of the activities available for your zooming around and such.
I’ll be updating it every few days with new activities, though keep in mind that many of my activities are indoors (i.e. swims and trainer rides) – which won’t have GPS accuracy aspects.
Cheers.
For your feature/function comparison :
Tides: yes ( with optional bluechart map)
Paperless geocaching : no (at the moment?)
Regards
Volker
Just in case anyone’s interested my Epix arrived to my French home from an Italian supplier this morning.
My Epix landed on my desk 3 hrs ago from an Italian authorized distributor. Very first impressions: the watch looks awesome, no lag when scrolling the map, it acquired the satellites very quickly.
Could you say which Italian supplier?
Yes, Farmaweb S.r.l.
You can find it also on eBay
link to klepsoo.com
see Electronic Shop (placed in Maglie (Lecce), South of Italy) where I’m from.
Ray on your review, please show a video of transferring the data to a phone (android or iphone) with otg, without an internet connection. I’d like to see this as I won’t have internet for a while. How many tracks can you store? Does it use the same storage as maps? Thank you
Now I have been out of the store and bought my Epix.
So now they exist in Sweden :)
So far I love my Epix. Extremely light despite its bulk. Battery life is terrific (no exact stats yet, but it appears it can go for weeks with Bluetooth always on and mild use of GPS), and it recharges incredibly fast (in 20 minutes it recharged from 55% to 100%). It lasts longer than my Pebble! The recharge cable is well designed and secure so you can recharge while wearing the watch. No problems with maps so far (City Navigator, Arizona Topo from GPSFileDepot). Screen packs a lot more information than Fenix 3, even though Fenix 3 has a higher resolution. The vibration is really strong and you can set multiple alarms. My only complaint so far is it sometimes briefly loses it’s bluetooth connection, even when just a few feet from my phone.
An english review:
link to blog.aaronmphotography.com
Got my hands on one at last. Ordered from Italy early hours Friday arrived this morning. Very unimpressed with Garmin UK and Cotswold, pre order cancelled. Wonder how long it will take them to refund me.
Anyone managed to get free maps working on theirs?
CW keep telling me early part of next week
CW finally received stock on Wednesday. Garmin are a joke in the UK by misleading customers and their major retailers also.
Yes CW been saying that for 4 weeks. Garmin generally fail to deliver on its estimates, esp for UK so nothing new here. Cotswold can only pass the information on that they are given, but they have always maintained that May 2015 was only an estimate and that it could change. I hope to have mine end of July but no rush. It’s not life or death – whenever its good and ready.
Agree, it is only Garmin who were messing Cotswold around. The CW buyer needs to grip them.
I’ve had my Epix for several weeks now. My intended use was for hiking, running, and hunting. I really miss the EPE and Satellite Status screen. I’m also experiencing plenty of crashes and other hiccups in the firmware. So much so that I’m contemplating returning the watch.
Below some problems I encountered in my first days of use. Some may be solved easily albeit I checked the manual already and could not find it. If anyone knows what to do, your input is highly appreciated. Other items seem to be real bugs in the software. Note that I only listed problems. Further it is simply a great machine.
1. Epix Return/Lap button: The return button is also the lap button. If during a running activity you by accident push the back button twice (which can easily happen if you are getting tired), a lap will be recorded which you did not want. If you had auto lap on 1 kilometer, it will not report anymore the 1 kilometer laps on your total run. Example: if you push lap by accident at 6.4 kilometers, next autolap is not at 7 kilometers and 8 etc but at 7.4, 8.4 etc. This is not desired
2. Epix Tracklog color: The tracklog of a running activity has a light blue / cyan color. It cannot be adjusted. Would be nice if that can be adjusted manually. The cyan color is hardly visible on the map, especially when running near water.
3. Epix Navigating a (gpx) track fails (re-starts): When uploading a (gpx) track and selecting this under navigation to follow it, this only rarely succeeds. Most of the times the Epix re-starts. Sometimes it does start navigating a track and I start running but then the Epix re-starts during the activity which is even worse!
4. Epix Widgets Connect IQ look like being from the 1970’s: Would be good if Garmin team would check all Connect IQ items to see if it really works on the Epix and (may be even more important) if it really looks nice on the Epix. I tried a few clock and battery widgets but these look terrible, as if they were made in the 1970’s.
5. Epix Bluetooth sync error: Epix most of the times gives a sync error when it should sync an activity via Bluetooth through the Connect App on my iphone. Only possibility then is to sync through USB
6. Epix Pause/Resume not start where it was paused: If during a running activity you need to pause, most logical is to push the start/stop button. If you want to continue push the start/stop button again and it will indeed continue where it was paused. However, if the pause is somewhat longer, did not measure how long, the information from the activity will not be visible anymore but the Epix returns to the clock-screen. If you then want to resume, you should push the start/stop button again and select ‘resume’, but it then starts a new activity so starts at zero, albeit in the background it keeps track of the total workout but without showing all details on the screen. When syncing with Garmin Connect the activity is not one activity but a multi sport activity broken down in several parts. That is not what I would want. If I pause and thereafter resume, it should resume where paused. During the pause it should not return to the clock-screen.
7. Epix Open source maps very slow: Maps from opensource OpenCycleMap can be put on the Epix but these are very very slow. The refresh rate of the Epix is so slow it can hardly be used to navigate. Not sure what causes this and what can be done about it.
8. Epix No warnings if not on course anymore: Noticed that when the navigation in running mode did work and I follow a (gpx) track, it is not consequent in telling me if I’m still on the course. Sometimes it warns me with sound and vibration and showing it on the watch, but sometime I left the course (for quite some meters) on purpose and did not get any reaction from the Epix.
9. Epix Go to option hard to activate: Navigating with the “go to” option (point a place on the map to navigate to): often when pushing the screen it does not show the ‘go to’ option but instead tell you what kind of road it is. What to do in that case?
Just wanted to second everything that Ron has stated in his review above. I’ve had exactly the same problems. As things stand now, the degree of usefulness of this watch is very low. I’m sending mine back to REI this weekend.
I received my watch about 2 weeks ago. So far I used it for taper weekend workouts as well as a Half Ironman. Here are my thoughts:
Battery Drain: The first few days the battery drain was AWFUL. I literally could look at it and “watch” the number going down. I believe that the SW update fixed this because I have not had this issue since updating. I am currently running SWV 2.20. I charged it prior to my half ironman on Saturday night, used it to race, and have used it for one cycle workout since then as well as daily use as a watch. My battery is now at 37% (today is Thursday and the HIM was on Sunday). I am pleased with that. I will be doing an Ironman at the end of June so I will report back on how the battery survives (Expected finish 13-14 hours at IM CDA).
Screen: So, I confirmed yesterday it is not just my mind playing tricks on me. My screen is hard to read when the backlight isn’t on. The 920 XT was much easier to view quickly. The backlight is adjustable. I am going to set it on “Stays On” and see how it drains my battery. I will update this after testing it.
Bluetooth: Under the packaged SW the bluetooth was HORRIBLE. I believe that was part of the ridiculous battery drain…constantly connecting, disconnecting, and reconnecting to my phone. Since the update to software version 2.20 it has been better. I feel that it loses connection about as frequently as the 920XT. This isn’t desirable but not horrible either. I have had to Pair it with my Mobile Phone numerous times. Again, I saw this problem with the 920XT as well so it isn’t new just annoying the issue hasn’t been fixed.
Accuracy: I have been too lazy to test the Epix with my 920 (which I had a series of issues with and intend on returning to REI) as far as GPS accuracy…especially since Ray is busy working on that. No reason to reinvent the wheel. I will say that my HIM measured 70.14 instead of 70.3. Experience says that usually if a race measures short then it is short. So my assumption is that the bike and run WERE short. However, I haven’t really compared to anyone else to see if theirs were also short. Please note that if the distance using the tanget method was 70.3 then the Epix should have measured considerably longer because I was hot, tired, and too lazy to focus on cutting the tangets.
Ease of Use: The first few days it was tricky to get used to using. Muscle memory meant I pressed the wrong buttons a lot. I was nervous I would totally screw up triathlon mode during the HIM (getting triathlon mode with transitions correct should earn some sort of an award) using the new watch just out of button habits. However, I did several practice runs and actually did not mess it up once (yeah me!). I prefer the start/stop and lap buttons on the face like the 920. To me these are easier to press during a swim drill or when you want to enter/exit transition. They don’t require me to flip my wrist or move my hand. BUT, I have figured it out and believe that the side is probably fine.
Notifications: Part of the reason I got the 920 and Epix was for the notifications. I am a mother and work at a hospital so in the past when riding/running and my phone would ring I would HAVE to stop what I was doing to make sure it wasn’t my daughter, patient, or a physician I work for. Having notifications pop up so that I know when I can “ride on” or when I need to stop is awesome. The notifications on the Epix are improved in that you can read the whole text message. I like that. Before I would sometimes get curious based on the one line teaser on the watch and interrupt my workout unnecessarily.
Music Control: Okay, this is totally not necessary…but I think it is cool. I am a nerd. I know. But if I am using a standard earphone in my one ear (for safety) and I want to skip a song I can easily do it from my watch while running without having to do it from my phone. Just cool. I like it.
Calendar: So, for some reason I like this too but it is very much not necessary. But, well, why not.
Weather: Not necessary but kinda cool. I can just look at my watch to see the hourly or daily weather. I am sure it is just as accurate as every other weather prediction tool (insert eyeroll here).
Temperature: I like this. Mostly I like that it tracks temperature and puts it into TrainingPeaks and Garmin Connect. This is helpful to consider my HR, Pace, and any impact Temperature might have had. I feel this helps me to evaluate my progress. What is interesting (and this might be a TP thing) is that for my triathlon on Sunday in TP I can see the temperature during my swim (average of 79…not wetsuit legal) and bike (max of 90 degrees…it is just too early for that nonsense) but not my run (average temperature of 93.8). Very weird. In hindsight this is possibly a setting I have wrong in my TP because it DOES show this information in Garmin Connect.
Recovery Advisor: If I start an activity, do it for 2 minutes testing it, and stop it then it has been known to tell me I need an hour to recover… I don’t really pay attention to the results given for this anyway but it did make me laugh.
Compass: I love the main compass. For an incredibly directionally challanged girl this is awesome.
Touchscreen: Happy to report this does lock during activity. The touchscreen is cool for certain things.
Power Meter search during run: Is it really searching? Why does it show it at the top as if it is looking for something that is never going to be there.
While writing this, playing with my watch, turning bluetooth on, and turning on backlight my battery has decreased from 37% to 31%. We will see how it works out as I leave it alone and return to work.
Cheers,
Angela
Angela, good small review. But you didnt touch on the biggest feature….Maps. It was the main reason why I returned mine. I had the 24k installed and the Lag was real real bad. It seems like others are having the same problem for detailed maps. 100k dont see that big of a deal.
I had a Fenix 3 for few weeks. The gps stopped working..literally stopped working and the Altimeter was horrible. People said I didnt know how to use the altimeter but I knew something was wrong with it. I sent it back.
I then got an Epix. GPS seemed good. Altimeter didnt play with much. The maps were laggy as hell. Real bad. Also there were a bunch of bugs with the watch to font size to just random reboots during overnight hiking trips i couldnt justify spending $550. I just dont feel like the unit is ready for production. It could of used a smaller bezel for bigger screen area, much better processor and built in WIFI. Also the software is filled with tons of bugs. I had the unit for 2 weeks and the amount of bugs I found were amazing. How does Garmin not test these units before they are shipped out.
I took a look on Craigslist and found an Ambit3 peak about 2 hours away for $250!. I took a drive and ended up picking it up from the guy for $200. The thing looked brand new. I was stoked and still am about the steal i found. Needless to say after a few weeks with the Ambit 3 it just blows away the garmin. Sure the color screen would be nice, or connecting to a tempe but the watch just works. I took it on an overnight hiking trip and it was spot on, from the altimeter,gps and battry life. Now with the latest update giving battery life a big boost (200hr in ultra mode). I dont even miss the 1 or 2 apps i downloaded from the disgrace Connect IQ store. I really tried to like Garmin but just too many issues for $500+ devices.
Kyle,
You are right…nice catch. I haven’t had extensive use of it yet. Truth be told I got my watch the taper weekend prior to my HIM and have so far have only done those basic workouts and my HIM with it. I haven’t had to use navigation yet…really…kinda sorta.
So, the saturday after I got it I did a trail run. I thought I would be brave and save my starting location, go run, and then when I got close to being done select the saved location and hit “go to”. So, well, I did that. I was supposed to run 6 miles that day and in the end I ran 8 because I didn’t pull off the “go to” option very well. I thought it was working great as I followed the arrow telling me I was less than 1/2 of a mile away. The arrow was following my trail and the distance was decreasing. I was feeling BADASS. THEN, the distance started increasing. The reason is it wanted me to run across a lake to get back to my campsite. I am a triathlete however I am pretty sure my Samsung phone wouldn’t have appreciated the direct route.
Since that day I have played with the settings a bit to tell it to stay on roads, etc. but I am guessing this won’t be too helpful on trails but it may help me avoid large bodies of water. I haven’t had a chance to test out the maps (I have the Garmin with the 100K loaded) for a run or bike ride since then. I will test it out this weekend and see how delayed it is. I will also test out the courses option and see if it works like the Garmin 800 (which I am hoping to sell since I use the Pioneer Power Meter and would prefer to use that head unit instead of my Garmin 800).
I will post a navigation update and other thoughts after this weekend. I see on Garmin Connect that there is a new SW update and so I will update it tonight and see how it goes.
As for a follow-up to the screen viewing and backlight “Always On” – as expected that depleted my battery rather swifty yesterday. I charged the watch last night (which, it does charge super fast) and started this AM at 100% at 3:30 am. I turned on the backlight as “Always On”. I did a 45 minute pool swim and a few minor tweaks with it to test the Music option with Audible based on Jill’s post. Right now it is 1:51 pm and my battery is at 68%. So…clearly leaving the backlight ON is not an option. SO….does everyone feel their watch seems dimmed or is it just mine? Is there some setting to make it less dim without turning on the backlight?
Cheers,
Angela
So I feel a little like a moron Kyle ;) because your post had me thinking more about the maps function. I just realized that when my battery was depleted at record speed when I first received the watch (prior to updating the SW) I turned off as many functions as I wasn’t using at the moment to try to pinpoint the drain. So…I had the general maps, altimeter, and barometer off. Genius….not. So, thanks to your observation I have turned it on and will do some playing around this weekend.
Solution to this one mentioned above:
6. Epix Pause/Resume not start where it was paused: If during a running activity you need to pause, most logical is to push the start/stop button. If you want to continue push the start/stop button again and it will indeed continue where it was paused. However, if the pause is somewhat longer, did not measure how long, the information from the activity will not be visible anymore but the Epix returns to the clock-screen. If you then want to resume, you should push the start/stop button again and select ‘resume’, but it then starts a new activity so starts at zero, albeit in the background it keeps track of the total workout but without showing all details on the screen. When syncing with Garmin Connect the activity is not one activity but a multi sport activity broken down in several parts. That is not what I would want. If I pause and thereafter resume, it should resume where paused. During the pause it should not return to the clock-screen.
Hi, by trial and error found out a solution for this stupid thing that made me feel like the watch is useless for my long workouts in which for sure I would need some breaks. This is what I did:
– When you pause, after a while the clock will appear
– When you want to start again after a break, press the start button
– When you would go through with what would appear logical (select running if you were running and selecting resume), don’t do that but instead press the lap button and thereafter press the lap button again.
– Your workout will appear where you stopped it for a break. Press start to continue that workout.
Regards.
Ron
I am going to take my new watch out for a test while camping/hiking/biking/kayaking this weekend. I have noticed the Garmin 24k maps do well as long as other maps are turned off. I have not tried to do much with the maps yet but will but it seems to respond reasonably. Bluetooth fails for me if other Bluetooth devices are nearby. When I am away from other devices like my car and house, it works. That probably isn’t much of a comfort.
The fitness aspects have been working well for me. I have done biking with cadence and running with a RUN strap. If I do not use the resume function but instead use the recommendation mentioned above it continues nicely.
I am not much of a heavy GPS user but overall my experience has been very good with the watch.
There are two things I think do not work very well. The Music control app only works with music and not podcasts or Audible books. Hopefully a new app will be developed that will just play and pause any app on IOS. The Step counts are not right. I use a Fitbit One and do not get extra steps because of arm swings because it is located elsewhere. Still the steps count is down about 25%. The sleep metric isn’t very useful. I will continue with my Fitbit because of these issues and the fact it does steps too.
Connect IQ is goofy and doesn’t always work right away. It does the trick eventually.
In the end I am happy with Epix as an upgrade to Fenix 1. I hope the weekend in the outdoors helps define it better.
Jill,
I noticed while playing around yesterday that on Garmin Connect on my mobile phone there is a spot under “settings” which lists a “Default Music Player”. If you click on that you can select what you want it to start. Granted…it won’t allow you to change it from your watch (i.e. Audible to music, etc.) if you use one the majority of the time you can set it up there. So, for instance, if you know during a workout you will be using Audible you can select that on Garmin Connect on your phone and then sync your watch to it. It will change what it opens upon using it. I don’t have a lot of books downloaded yet on my phone and so I haven’t tested to see how well it works on Audible. Other options on MY Andriod phone include Kindle, Amazon Music, Car Mode, Cloud, Flipboard, Google Play Music, Google Play Newsstand, Multimedia UI Service Layer, S Voice, Slacker Radio, Video clip studio, Video Player, and Voice Recorder. Let us know how it works for you.
Cheers,
Angela
Jill, it’s actually FitBit over-reporting step count. Same thing if I compare Garmin Vivosmart and FitBit Charge HR, or any other pedometer. FitBit tends to report 10-15% more steps than I actually to. Sometimes it counts 100-200 steps while I drive a car or ride a motorcycle.
Thank you! I suspect this might be an Android only feature. I don’t see the setting in IOS but that is good to know it was not left out of their planning.
Jill,
I will see if I can test it on my daughter’s iPhone…but it was hard for me to even remember where I found it before. It isn’t under settings for the device. On my Android I do the following:
Click the top left 3 lines –> Select “Settings” –> Select “Default Music Player”. So…this means that as Garmin updates devices (I heard Fenix 3 just got this music option in a SW update and so my guess is the 920 did/will too) then you will only be able to select ONE Default Music Player for ALL devices. Until they figure out people may desire more customization than that. If you get a chance to try it let us know if it works on iPhone too.
Here is a link to a video of my Connect IQ Data Field failure: link to youtu.be
Here are my issues with Epix.. Some of them wrer already mentioned here.. Need to say that it’ll be great watches when these issues were fixed.. especially often rebooting..
High priority issues:
– lots of random reboots – mostly during playing with TOPO map or while saving/cancelling activity
– the map screen sometimes freezes or switch to blank (especially when zooming out), I have to restart device to solve it
– when I leave my BT connected phone (iPhone 6) in other room for the night (I don’t want to have a phone in the bedroom), Epix repeatedly vibrate with notification “Phone connected” and “Phone disconnected. It should take account of my sleep period defined in Garmin Connect and turn these notifications off for this period. Alternatively, make it configurable in the settings. It’s really very very very annoying and turning BT off each night is uncomfortable.
– several days old activities are shown as today activity in the history
– interrupted activities (switched back to watch face before continuing) are saved as multisport activities
– finished activity is mostly synchronized over BT after up to several attempts – it shows device connection error in GCM
– sometimes is unable to start an activity – watches are only vibrating when I press start button and other buttons are not responsive.. I have to reboot them via some strange combination of buttons
Low priority issues:
– course track line is always purple even if I change it globally or for the activity type
– data field values are overlapping into another field or outside of the screen – it happens with bigger values and the activity screen layout 2×2 or 1+2, for example activity total time or elevation
– the map screen (with TOPO Pro 1:10 000) during an activity can noticeably drain battery
Connect IQ issues:
– update() method is called 14 times per 7 seconds when I switch to the watchface from another screen or widget – it results in higher battery drain on Epix for some more complex watchfaces
– the font FONT_NUMBER_THAI_HOT is noticeably larger than this font in the simulator
Additional Comments:
Watch size/Band: I am 5′ 5″ and 133 lbs. I have a small wrist. The watch face covers my whole wrist. It definitely feels bigger/bulkier than the 920 but not terrible. One annoyance I have is the buckle seems to hit on a nerve in my wrist while running. I never had this issue with the 910 or 920. If I turn the watch so that the face is on the bottom side of my wrist the nerve pinch goes away. Another complaint I have is…Garmin…please figure out that WOMEN wear your watches too. I wasn’t a fan of the 920 color options. I got the red/white however in 6 months the red/white looks a tad dingy. The black/blue one just doesn’t feel very feminine to me. How about some other color options like…pink for the band. I mean, it is the new black.
Notifications: The notifications are much less dependable than on the 920. This REALLY annoys me. I have a teen daughter and have a job that I might need to stop working out if a patient calls. So the fact that the watch connects/disconnects from the phone entirely too much…and the fact that it will say it is connected and yet notifications don’t come through really annoys me. How difficult can this be Garmin?
Locks/Freezes: This watch locks/freezes quite a bit. Especially if trying to use maps (which DO load entirely too slowly).
RideWithGPS doesn’t Export to it: This watch doesn’t have a “new files” folder. It has a .gpx folder but when I drag and drop to there it isn’t showing on my courses. So far the only courses I have successfully loaded are ones from previous rides on Garmin Connect. Now I am trying to find a good Mac version of a .tcx/.gpx to .fit converter. I have tried uploading some routes via the manual import into Garmin Connect and then sending to my device but have not yet had success doing it. I am sure someone here can post a solution to this for me…and I would be very grateful….
GPS File Transfer: Okay, I figured out I could download “RideWithGps.com” files and then import them into BaseCamp and then export them to the Epix. I totally forgot this was possible. I will test out a route tomorrow and see how it goes.
If you still want a stand alone GPX to FIT converter, try JaVaWa’s RTWtool. Good luck with BaseCamp, though. It’s probably the easiest option if it works.
To load a tcx or fit file directly to the Epix via USB, place the file into the ‘Activities’ folder. It will act just the same as the NEWFILES folder. Found this out through a little logic and a little luck. This doesn’t mean it won’t still be buggy and reboot sometimes. The software is enormously buggy. Virtually a joke. I do realize that the software will improve, and probably rather quickly, but, in my opinion, that still won’t make it worth the $600+ I paid. The watch will be going back to REI.
Thanks. It can’t hurt to have a second option to test.
Agreed so far about the likely possibility of a return. Too many frustrations right now for $600. Not to mention it doesn’t come with a HR strap…so now we are comparing $700 to $500 for the 920 combo.
I will see how the maps work tomorrow. I had hoped to sell my 800 and solely use the Epix and my Pioneer headunit. But it really doesn’t seem that the Epix with have a decent map screen to mimic the 800. I am also hiking in Glacier after IMCDA and I am pretty sure this watch is not going to be as useful as I had hoped. The delay on the maps, constant freezing, and from what I can tell so far very limited functionality is frustrating.
I may hang onto it to see what DC says in his review…surely I am missing something awrsome that would convince me this is worth 200 more than the 920. Surely…
I’m mostly ambivalent on it at the moment. The lack of Basecamp Mobile and other mobile planning options is in my mind a deal killer. Having done a recent hike where I wanted to route a different (unknown) way back home, I realized just how much better Komoot on my phone was…for basically a buck.
The other UI things are sorta the icing on the cake on making it feel subpar.
Agree Ray. They need some significant updates to the UI, and fast. It’s the biggest failing and totally baffling why they struggle so much with this – it should be the bread and butter of their devices.
I’m glad your seeing it for what it is. Put 24k maps on it and do an activity for an hour, it’ll be useless. Way too many bugs for $550. Good idea but its not ready for primetime.
Agreed. And my 920 was much better at consistent phone pairing. This may not be a deal breaker for others but it was part of what made the 920 and Epix great…a glance of my watch told me if I had to stop riding/biking to answer the phone…that was pretty priceless. The fact that the Epix stinks at this in addition to losing my HR monitor and Power meter at 50 miles with a dead battery before 80 means…I officially dislike it. I think Garmin needs a major competitor to the 920 to get them on their game. I am baffled why they wouldn’t send these units to some of us early adopters to test before they were available to the masses.
Depressed triathlete going back to the 920
Angela
1. How do you change the amount of data fields on a screen, it’s not letting me do it. Is 3 the max? (if so that is quite low for such a large screen)
2. Can you overlay data on the map (e.g. see speed or HR)
Got my watch yesterday. so far so so experience. one lockup. can’t install garmin express on PC. Garmin connect android does not show that epix exists. so can’t sync BUT I am getting notifications. go figure….
When setting up it ask me if to sync to gps for time. it did it in seconds even though I was indoor and the watch arrived from abroad. impressive
When you select to setup screens select the one you want (ie screen 1) then select it and use the up/down on the left to increase (max of 4 as squares or rectangles ) ot decrease the data fields.
if you are having issues with lag this might help. Go in to map settings and select only the map you want to use. I put on 1:50k uk O/S,150124-British-Isles Contours Routable OSM and some 1:25k maps. when I went in to select the map I wanted to use they were all selected? I am not sure if it makes any difference at all but its worth a try.
For what its worth I like the watch still using my fenix 3 for EDW and I have used the epix for a couple of runs and it is all good.
Loaded maps and routes last night. Turned off bluetooth. Charged it to 100%. Unplugged it and went to bed.
Woke up and whatever games it was playing had it down to 69%. Went for a 80 mile bike ride and a 1 mile book using navigation and the route I loaded last night. The watch spent most of the first 50 miles connecting and disconnecting the phone. At the 50 mile spot we stopped to refuel and when I restarted it started off as a new workout which I assume it would merge…
It also dropped my HR monitor and Power meter. It was unsuccessful in picking up my phone, HR monitor, and Power meter again. Then…it dies before the ride was even over. Insert a few choice words. Thankfully I had my 800 running and had an app on my android phone for my run. Who does a workout like that in the Georgia heat with failing devices.
Oh so annoyed!
Cheer,
Angela
Epix automatically deletes my activity after succesfull sync. I do not want that. I want to keep my files and back them up. Garmin Express used to have the option to choose “Erase data on this device after successfully syncing”. I found that they have removed this option. Anyone who knows how to prevent that my Epix erases my data after sync?
Solution to this one mentioned above:
6. Epix Pause/Resume not start where it was paused (but starts new multisport activity): Already found and mentioned a solution above, but found another solution: settings/apps/running/stand-by: change from normal (returns to clock-mode in 5 minutes), to extended (returns to clock-mode in 25 minutes).
I’m totally confused with the Epix after tons of reading. I pray for Ray solving this with his outstanding reviews.
From my point of view, the Epix isn’t very worth for hiking or cycling (as there are other options with bigger screens / cheaper / more stable at the moment). When I hike, for example, as Ray said, isn’t a problem to take a look at your cellphone with some TOPO navigation app. Cheaper, bigger screen, faster…
But…what for the trail runners like me? Cellphone is not an option if going through a new and unknow place (example if you want to reach a hill, or want to downhill to a specific village and there are several trails or paths).
I see only logic using a 24k routable TOPO map on Epix…to take a look just to a map you have your cellphone, and if not really interested in map routing, just following a created track/GPX, probably a Fenix3/Ambit3 are more stable, cheaper and why not, prettier and usable as everyday watch.
Reading GarminForums seems to be very different opinions based on the types of map. Or buggy units of Epix, don’t know. Some users are happy and others claim that routing is nearly useless. Also read that you should try to avoid maps with transparent layers.
Hope Ray (or another owner who can test it and want to play with this a lot) can analyze well the routing with different types of 24k TOPO maps and how the Epix performs there, and if the calculated routes are really useful or simply a better option than a direct line “as the cows fly” but not very useful.
HUGE THANKS :-)
The routing also depends on the routing settings in the chosen app. You also have to pay attention at this, when you are compairing the routing. The epix supports active routing (if the map supports this) and there a lots of different settings possible (activity/calculation method/avoidances).
User should only enable two maps at the same time (the world basemap- it has to do with the zooming, somebody told me) and the map you want to use. If you have installed different routable maps and all are enabled, the epix indeed only shows the map with the highest (?) draw priority, but the route calculation may fail/suck, because of all the enabled routable maps.
Thank you so much, Volker. Read your review on naviboard.de with the help of google translate but couldn’t understand much, and also in GarminForums. I know you have tried with 24k TOPO maps and seems you were quite satisfied.
I read also another user about only a 24k map activated recommendation, and that doing this there wasn’t / was few lag when navigating performing an activity.
So would you say the calculated routes are quite usable with those specific tricks you mentioned? Thanks a lot!!!
Hi fameh,
I think when you are talking about 24k maps, you mean the usa topos, right? I am using the topo germany v7 (25k) and it works fine (scrolling/moving etc.) on my epix. Don`t know, if the epix has perhaps probs with the 24k usa maps – I read different post about that, some with probs, some without probs…
I did a lot of testing with routing (with different settings) on my epix and I worked quiet good for me. Normally I plan my hikes before as a track on my pc and then follow the track on the watch, to be sure that there are no “surprises” during the hike, but for routing “on the fly” on the epix, it worked very satisfied for me.
regards
Volker
Hi Volker,
first of all, thank you so much for your information.
No, im in Spain, so will try some openmtbmaps and IGN maps as well of Spain.
I also use to plan my trail runnings on PC before, but wish to sometimes be able to go out of the route or just explore…and do it running without having to check constantly the cellphone (running looking at it in the hand is really unconfortable).
Regards and thanks again for your opinions and explanations :-)
Just as a quick heads up/FYI to those awesome folks who supported the site via Clever Training, the Epix units have arrived this morning (both regular and bundles). All backorders will ship out today.
Once that’s done, you’ll see a small amount of in-stock inventory available for immediate shipment for new orders.
Thanks again all for your patience!
That’s awesome Ray!
Do you know if it’s different for us in Canada? Can you tell me if both models will be fullfiled? I’ve ordered one without the TopoMaps…
Thx again,
Steph
I will confirm that CT has shipped preorders. Mine was waiting for me in the mailbox today. What a pleasant surprise, as I hadn’t received any update from them this week. We’ll see what happens when I start banging on it this week.
Thanks, CT!
I loved my Ambit3, but I have had the Epix for a few weeks now and think it is fantastic. It is wonderful to have a real map instead of a squiggly line on the screen. I have City Navigator, and an Arizona Topo map from GPSFileDepot. While I agree with many of the firmware fixable problems cited here and elsewhere, my only major complaint so far is that I occasionally lose bluetooth connectivity. Otherwise, this watch is an absolute joy to use. The screen and maps are highly readable, the battery life is unmatched by any other watch in the known universe, and the overall functionality is amazing. The fabric wrist strap accessory sold separately at Garmin is another item worth purchasing for this watch.
I couldn’t disagree with you more. Having an Ambit3 Peak,saying the battery life is better on the Epix is just wrong. Just look at the Ultra Trac numbers , Epix= 50hrs while Ambit3 = 200hrs. Day to day use is clearly better also on the Ambit. You can say you like the Epix better(i guess) but saying the battery is better compared to the Ambit3 just isn’t right.
Hi folks,
GPS mode , map, and HR storeage every 1 second – battery runs almost exactly 6 hours on my Epix
While useing map 100k often shows 50% or less white display for about 10 seconds to 2 minutes
4 times the watch freezes while running no chance to push button just waiting till battery is empty. Good luck is that I´ve my 920xt with me at the same time while running.
So IMVHO Epix is far away to be a sophisticated watch.Yet.
Herzlichst! Naomi
Strange. Using my epix with topo germany v7 (25k) map moving/scrolling/drawing is ok, battery life with gps (only) every second, hr belt and tempe sensor about 14 hrs (no bt, no iq witgets/apps) running time. Sometime freezes, but not often. I am very satisfied.
Only 6 hrs? Something must drain the battery or it is somehow defective. Perhaps other users can post their battery life.
a new review,
link to navigation-professionell.de
try it with google translate:
link to translate.google.com
Batterylife with navigating a course on the color display all the time, no bluetooth on etc, gives me just below 7 hours. Good thing is that you can charge the Epix while running etc
Ron,
How do you charge it while running….or are you teasing? I can’t imagine carrying one of those pocket backup USB chargers to charge it. Am I missing the joke or some cool trinket?
Thanks,
Angela
6 or 7 hrs seems to be no good battery using time – garmin announced up to 24 hrs with gps (ok, this is an theoretical battery using time) but it should be more than 6 or 7 hrs. Ray, some quick first experiences about your tested battery life?
I ran about 500 km with epix. Few 40K, many 30K and one 50K. Some on completely unfamiliar forest terrain. For now my only concern is lag on map after one hour of use and some minor software bugs (for example broken autolap screen after hour). Accuracy is very ok. Instant pace is weak as usual ;)
I do not use route navigation as i do in Fenix2 but draw tracks in basecamp and only show them on map in Epix. Its enough not o be disoriented and lost in unfamiliar territory.
I use bluetooth only when running long distances with livetracking (for safety).
Only reset that i have was when IQconnect field has failed to work properly
Hi folks,
I ´ve given mine back today after 3 weeks testing.
reasons:
frozen display every other day, no reaction of pushing buttons, no tricks helps (e.g.connecting with PC) had to wait till battery is empty.
batterylife with navigating a course,GPS only, every second ,hr belt, foot sensor max 6 hours
lagging with 100k map (didn´t try 24k)
no HRV
terrible watchstrap ( I like the one of 920xt and 620 but hated this one)
no possibility to handle my data on PC (like Polar did with software Polar Trainer V5) I HATE it to be forced to use Garmin cloud, no privacy, imagine they even know exactly where you live, if you start your training in front of your housedoor only one time.
So short so bad!
Naomi
You should be able to handle your data offline on the PC with Garmin Basecamp software
link to garmin.com
Hi Naomi,
sorry to hear that. But I think that your device was defective or had some other problems. I get about 14 hrs of battery life, Joachim gets up to 16 hrs battery life. Almost no freezes with my unit and if, no problem to restart the watch at once.
best regards
Volker
No offense Volker but you seem to me 1 of a handful of people not having problems with the Epix. I see you always on the Garmin forums defending it. I returned mine weeks ago because it was like Naomi said, freezing, restarts, lag, and various other problems. Im sure you saw my youtube lag i posted. Multiple people have reported the same. If you like the device, great, just dont tell people its not widely reported. I know from first hand experience and from reading on the forums and people commenting on my video they have the same issues. The device just isnt ready. Maybe by software updates or the Epix 2 it will be worth the $600 garmin charges for it.
Just to expand on the data offline piece – there’s no need to ever upload data to Garmin Connect if you don’t want to.
The Epix unit creates .FIT files within an ‘Activities’ folder on the unit, which can be accessed via the USB drive when plugged into any computer. These files are widely compatible with any reputable 3rd party app. For example, Sport Tracks is one of the best desktop apps to use. Also, apps like Golden Cheetah are free.
As Jose noted, if you’re looking at management of waypoints/etc, that’s via the Garmin Basecamp software, also desktop driven – and again, no need to connect to the cloud (except perhaps management of paid maps).
In many ways, Garmin is better than Polar on that openness/privacy front, as all recent Polar devices do require you to upload to Polar Flow (there are some quirky workarounds with 3rd party apps these days, but they are indeed quirky at best).
On HRV, can you expand? That data should be recorded I thought (I don’t tend to use the FirstBeat software, which is really the only major app that decodes it).
Yes, I like the epix and I have got realy no problems with my one (sorry, but what should I do?). Just using it for hiking/biking with hr belt, temp sensor, gps only, 1 second, multiple maps (only basemap and on other enabled at the same time), no sport/fitness stuff, no bt, no IQ stuff except the hr chart widget.
I am very critical (with garmin), in the past I wrote, if there was something I don`t like (have had 4 times rma with my fenix (1)) my remarks about what I don´t like, the etrex 30 sucks years before etc.,
But perhaps my epix is defective and so I don`t have the probs, a lot of people seems to have…
Is it possible in the history after an activity to see maximum speed? I dont want to connect it to Garmin Connect to see it. (is a surfskipaddler and dont have my laptop with me all the time).
Is it different history in different sportprofiles, running, biking etc.
THANKS
@..Ray..”On HRV, can you expand? That data should be recorded I thought ”
Dear Ray,
d áccord. FirstBeat file “enable HRV ” (it´s free) copie into Epix and you are able to see HRV in SportTracks after training. But what I meant was this: I want to see my HRV right away on display while I´m running,moreover RMSSD witch sets HR and HRV in relation to each other. If I had the choice, getting seen only one data : HR or HRV , I would decide: give me HRV! Because it gives me so much more information about, what´s going on while I am running. So this training whatch EPIX which is the most expensive on market,(700 Euro with HR strap) is not able to show HRV on display immediately while running ,is simply rediculous ! ;-) Please correct me if I´m wrong Ray!
Herzliche Grüsse!
Naomi
Gotchya.
For some reason I thought someone had made a Garmin Connect IQ app to show HRV. In meetings right now so can’t lookup whether I was just imagining, or if it’s Epix compatible. Might be worth a look…
You mean this app? link to apps.garmin.com
Dear Ray, dear Volker,
The app HRV Version 1.1.3, doesn´t make HRV visible while running. It´a pity, because I can run it on my 920xt too.
“The design currently only saves to 1 location per day. This means that any saved test will overwrite any previous test of that same day. The timestamp is taken when the test starts, so autostart will take the timestamp at the scheduled time. The averages are a 30 day mean average.”
Volker, I´m glad that you`ve got a nice watch being fully satisfied with it and a real Girl Friday ! And I believe your saying and thank you for your support to my questions in another forum! It seems to me that Epix devices are made from different quality. And my intention is not to make this watch bad. I tried to love it indeed, but if the weather is beautiful and I´m happy like a child eager to run and the new 700 Euro watch freezes at starting again and again then this is really frustrating to me. I wish I would had catched a “Girl Friday” like yours too. ;-))
Weiterhin viel Vergnügen mit deinem kleinen großartigen Schatz! :-))
Herzlichst! Naomi
… the app shows HRV while lieing in bed! ja prima!
correct myself:
600 Euro “only” not 700! . I bought 2 HR straps and sensors, because living in 2 places, so I don´t have to carry my always wet HR straps with me all the time.
I support Volker since I also have not seen any issues except the laptime issue in top right hand corner. I have been hiking 4 days using maps and birdseye without lag or issues. Tracking hike for 1½ day (6-7 hours effective walking) using 40% of battery. Comparing GPS accuracy with iphones and Ambit2 also indicates precise GPS accuracy
Mine is working fine, I am very satisfied with it and I won`t comment post from other users with problems anymore here nor in the garmin.com forum. I can “waiste” my time with some nicer things.
I got mine from Clever Training last Friday, and so far, so good. I’ve only done two activities with it, an indoor ride on rollers (the weather around here has been lousy lately) and an outdoor 33 mile road ride. It worked well on both of them, and for different reasons, those are the tracks I have on Garmin Connect. I put US TOPO 24k maps on it when I got it, but only Pennsylvania and Ohio and some fringes around them, and they haven’t given me any problems. I like the screen for the most part. It’s a little hard to read only indoors, so I flipped from white on black to black on white for the watch face, which is a little easier for me to read. I might take it out on my ride this morning because I made some adjustments to the data fields, and I plan on using it for a couple of mountain bike rides when I get to do that without getting covered in mud. After that, it’ll become a timepiece aside from an occasional hike until winter. I’ve avoided Connect IQ completely for now, but I do miss the little graphs (altitude, heart rate, etc.) that are available on the Fenix, so I might look around there eventually. GPS has been acceptable, although there are a few places on my one track where it’s not that good (mostly tree covered places).
Agree with Volker, my Epix is working great, except for the occasional bluetooth hiccup as cited earlier. While both Suunto and Garmin seem to be giving us early adopters beta software at the outset (my Android Movescount software for my Ambit3 is still in beta after almost 1 year!), my overall impression of the Epix remains excellent and I would recommend it now to anyone who likes to hit the trails with more than a squiggly line on their watch screen.
Well, after much frustration with the Epix I returned to the 920. I was reminded about how many issues I have had with the 920 as well. Last week I rode a century and it dropped my HR and Power sensor during the second loop of it. It dropped GPS a bit later. I was grateful that my Garmin 800 kept everything the entire time. My buddy and I laughed about non stop “phone connected” and “phone disconnected” from both of our 920s. Are they having issues with power meters? Is that why they can’t hold a bluetooth? My friend is now on his 3rd 920. Garmin is telling him it is an Apple issue with the bluetooth drops. However, I have a Droid. So perhaps it is an Apple AND a Droid issue. Certainly not a Garmin one. At least not until they find a SW glitch to fix it in an update.
I will say I am feeling a little of the “grass is greener” sentiment. I thought my 920 was better than my Epix until I pulled the 920 back out. Now I am having issues with it not counting my swim laps, dropping phone connection nonstop, and dropping power/hr connections. So…do I send both the 920 and the EPIX back and get new models to test? I am pretty bummed that I sold my 910. However, with my limited home internet (I live in the country) the bluetooth upload is awesome. But it requires a connection which I just spent almost 10 minutes trying to trick my phone and droid into getting the right series to see eachother and actually connect.
Is it wrong of me to think that for $600 these should work better? All of this said I am revisiting this thread to see if any redeeming qualities have popped out to encourage me to go back to the Epix. I do have an Ironman in less than 2 weeks. Which to roll the dice on…..
Cheers,
Angela
I think the epix will perhaps need some fw updates to be more stable for the using fields of some users. It is a brand new product and this needs almost some time ( as usual for new Garmin products ) and people should give Garmin some time for that. Otherwise some people will be disappointed about the performance of the epix in some fields of using.
For hiking/biking my epix is ok for me, but I can’t speak for sports/fitness use.
So far most things have worked very well with my Epix. I have run, hiked, kayaked, and biked with it and everything is working well. The biggest problems I have had are related to the Bluetooth connection and syncing. It seems to me to be related to other Bluetooth devices nearby. But the heart rate and fitness function have been rock solid. The lag on the map went away when I kept one map active. Now I have the Garmin 24k Great Lakes and the All trails map going now and they work very well together. I really was worried about this watch but so far I am very pleased.
OK, that was an unfun way to spend a half hour. I decided to use desktop BaseCamp to put a waypoint and a course on my Epix, Maybe I should have realized that something wasn’t quite right when the Epix showed up as a generic “GARMIN” mount point rather than being identified as an Epix with a unit ID, but I went ahead and dragged the waypoint and the course to “GARMIN”. This got rid of all other files on my Epix, immediately, for some reason. Fortunately, I’d made a backup of the entire filesystem on the Epix yesterday, so it was merely a matter of restoring the ~ 4.5 Gb backup onto the Epix. Everything seems back to normal.
Another quirk I noticed yesterday is that Express deleted all but the latest activity. It didn’t seem to save the deleted files anywhere on the computer, either. This isn’t the way I want it to work with 3.5 Gb free; there’s plenty of room for activity files.
Hi Paul, I have the same after synchronization all my activites are deleted. There used to be an option inGarmin Express that you could enable or not to say it should delete after sync or not, but Garmin decided in latest Express version to remove that option. No idea how I can now make my activity stay on the device after sync. Activity will be deleted if I autosync through bluetooth and Connect Mobile and also through USB / Garmin Express.
Other very very shity thing is that Pauze is dangerous move: Epix will switch to powersave and show clock in two minutes (extend powersave to 25 minutes does not work). No way to continue activity were you left of. It wil either create a mulitysport and start counting at zero or freeze.
Hunting around yesterday to see if it had stored the files on my Mac Pro, I found the .plist in the Epix folder that says, among other things:
delete_fitness_files_after_transfer
But Express apparently ignores that now.
Still, since the biggest problems I’ve had so far with the Epix is due to Garmin’s desktop OS X software, I consider that a big positive. Much better than having trouble with the device itself.
I haven’t tried this again to verify, but after my maps disappeared I reset the unit from the menu. However this wasn’t able to restore them. What I then did was to copy onto to watch a folder of the backed up files. This again didn’t help but just put the watch into a continuous cycle of rebooting. Then using the hard reset key sequence it reset the watch and the maps were back on the watch.
Just got mine. After upgrading to newest 2.20 firmware, Epix lost the preinstalled map. Is there anyway of getting them back?
Seems to be a Mac/Garmin express problem. There are some reports about that in the garmin.com forum: link to forums.garmin.com
Yes, there’s something seriously wrong with Garmin Express Service, the background app that does the actual work. I’ve lost the files on my Epix several times on two different computers. I’d suggest stopping Express (use the triangle icon in the menu bar, and tell it you want to stop the background app when it asks) and not using it until Garmin fixes the problem. With Express Service stopped I can plug in my Epix without problems, and BaseCamp works normally with it.
Thanks for the information. Well done Garmin!.
I don’t like the look of this from the Service_2015.06.18.txt log on my MacBook Pro:
2015-06-18 12.39.12 (GMT-04:00) | 61083 | I | Deleting Internal file [GARMIN/system.xml].
2015-06-18 12.39.12 (GMT-04:00) | 61083 | I | Deleting Internal file [GARMIN].
Why it suddenly started screwing up yesterday I don’t know. Express shouldn’t be deleting anything anyway unless I ask it to.
After many mails and one phone conversation with customer support there is still no way to get preinstalled maps back on the device. I think my Epix is going back to store sooner or later. Luckily there is OSM and other alternatives too.
Silly question perhaps but how do I load a course?
Anyone notice anything amazing in version 2.3 yet?
No, just the mentioned things. Some weeks ago reported layout issues with some data fields are still there.
If the layout issues are still there then thats embarrassing and inexcusable. That literally takes a developer 10 minutes to fix that. Unreal
Hi Ray, how’s the testing going so far and we are all eagerly awaiting your review?
Can anyone recommend a UK supplier that will take back the Epix if it is too buggy?
I want to buy and try the Epix – I think the mapping functionality would be great for long trail runs, but am worried about various bugs reported included map responsiveness. Those in the US seem to be able to return used watches after a few weeks e.g. back to REI etc. in the UK is there someone I can order from you will accept the return of the used watch if it performs badly in the first couple of weeks?
Many thanks
My Ironman Race Watch Decision Tree:
I have spent a few days going back and forth between the 920 and Epix to determine which watch will be my Ironman watch at Coeur d’Alene. Having them both at once has been nice to consider a few things:
– Software bugs are the same…obviously but easy to forget. So when the software glitch came out erasing all data upon sync it erased all of my data and reset any ConnectIQ on both watches. This goes back to the grass is not always greener. I was annoyed with my EPIX for failing me and so I went back to the 920 but it was just as unreliable. On my ride with it the 920 decided to drop my power meter, HR monitor, and eventually GPS signal. I was grateful that I had my Garmin 800 to have full data…it was my last century prior to my next IM.
– Garmin Connect overwriting my HR zones back to default. Hopefully I have this fixed (and at least I know now to check) but Garmin Connect was determined that my HR zones should be set to default. This impacts zone training (if you are like me and can’t remember raw numbers to save your life…hence why you pay for a watch to do it for you) and also the values given to you for Training Effect (showing a 4.3 on the 920 with low HR zones and a 3.4 on the Epix with tested HR zones) and I believe calories burned. I am still not certain of the formula the 920, EPIX, and 800 use to estimate calories but there are certainly differences. I rode on Thursday with all three. My calories were EPIX 1139 (using correct zones and weight), 920XT 1389 (using HR default zones that are significantly lower than my tested zones and correct weight), Garmin 800 1276 (weight 4 pounds less than actual and on others, correct zones). So…I don’t really care about calories but this is a remember to use one device consistently and not try to compare between them. And also to try to ensure your settings are correct. So based on this my 920XT will let me eat an extra Oreo after my ride. Score!
– Temperature: Another significant difference was temperature between the Epix and the Garmin 800. They were side by side and yet the Epix had an average of 81.8 with a max of 93.2 while the Garmin 800 had an average of 76 with a max of 84.2. Hmmm. Now, I like the temperature on the Epix because when I go back later and analyze my training and look to predict future success/goals, etc. it would be nice to look at temperature. I would prefer for it to be accurate. A second reminder to compare device data to same device data.
– Elevations between the three were similar at 2267 (800), 2142 (Epix), 2106 (920XT).
– Power: I don’t have a powermeter on my Road bike and my tri bike is headed to CDA so I couldn’t compare power between the three. My guess is they would all be the same like they were with HR since they are just receiving a value from the meter. I was more interested to see if any of them dropped the meter during the ride. My 800 has never dropped my HR monitor or my Power meter or GPS for that matter but the other two haven’t been so reliable.
– Battery: The battery seemed to last longer on the 920. I don’t have raw data because my 920 was set to the bar display and my Epix to the %. At the end of the 4 hour Brick my Epix said it had 73% battery remaining…which if it holds up like this for my ironman and the addition of the Power meter on the bike doesn’t kill it…it will last. I don’t believe that either of them were connected to my phone during this ride and so I didn’t have the constant “phone connected/disconnected” annoyance or battery drain. I did not have navigation running on any of the devices.
– Swim – so I had a swim with the 920 last Monday and for some reason it dropped laps a lot. It was the most off I have ever seen it. I am not certain of the issue. I had to keep stopping it and enter a fast “drill” mode to get the yardage correct. I swam Friday with the Epix and swam 4300 straight. It only dropped two lengths showing me at 4250. It was easy to see in Garmin Connect the two lengths that looked doubly long. This is acceptable to me.
– Maps – mine cleared too. I reinstalled the City Navigator. Now I am wondering if I should go to the trouble to install the 100K Topo map or not. I might wait until after Sunday’s Ironman and then test it out. Anyone have advice on this?
– Size – Okay the EPIX is just huge. I am an average to perhaps slightly petite in the bones woman (5’5″, 130-134 lbs) with small wrists. I no longer have my 910 to compare it to but the EPIX is A LOT bigger/bulkier than the 920. I took pictures for some friends for FB and you can see the band is wider, the clasp (which pinches a nerve in my wrist) is considerable larger, and the watch face is a lot thicker. It is certainly not as comfortable as a daily watch. But, I reminded myself that I have a really nice daily watch that I was never wearing that could fit this bill.
Ironman Decision: I am going with the EPIX. It is supposed to be a high of 103 at CDA on Sunday and so there is no chance this will be my A race. So I have decided to test out the battery and usability of the EPIX on the course. If it doesn’t survive the day then I may resort to something different at IM Choo in Sept. My 910 survived the time for my first Ironman and so the bar has been set high. I believe if I remember to turn off bluetooth and anything extra prior to the race I might be okay. Not certain but we shall see.
Cheers,
Angela
The comparison chart says that all of these watches allow real-time tracking on the site. Is that done through the mobile app using a cell phone signal or does the data make it to the site directly from the watch? I often go hiking several miles from the nearest cell signal and if my loved ones could track me and make sure I haven’t fallen off a cliff it would help me make the choice between the Fenix 3/Epix and the Suunto Ambit 3 Peak.
You need a phone with the mobile app and web access in the phone for live tracking. the method was shown on this post by DC using the Garmin FR920XT :
link to dcrainmaker.com
if you want tracking in an area with no cell signal you would need a device like the Spot personal tracker:
link to findmespot.com
or the Delorme inReach
link to inreachdelorme.com
Hi , dear Ray,
such a long time people waiting for your expert In-depth-review.
So, please let me guess why is that?
Well, I guess you try hard with your first, second, third…damned Epix or till Clever Training has sold all it´s whole stock of damned Epix, before you let the cat out of the bag. Yeap! ;-) Please ,correct me if I´m wrong!
Herzlichst! (whole-hearted)
Naomi
Or I’m busy with my family in town this past week.
I’ve continued to post all of my Epix workouts to the comparison page here: link to dcrainmaker.com
I haven’t had a chance to post the last few days there yet, merely because I’ve been busy.
There are over 700 comments on this thread from users including Ray’s initial response that he isn’t impressed with the Epix device. From my following of Ray’s reviews (which cover a huge variety of products…not just the Garmin Epix) he isn’t rich from this, he is honest and unbiased, and he does this because he loves this. This is very similar to many of us (but on a much grander scale) who spend our free time giving advice because we care. So, rather than assuming that he is trying to trick you into buying something (which he has already said he isn’t impressed with) perhaps read through the 700 comments/reviews from users above as well as the data he has already loaded. Or buy one and give us your impression of the device. Those are all pretty awesome things to do.
Cheers,
Angela
Normally Ray release the “in depth review” when garmin announced a new product (at least edge 20/25). For some unknown reasons garmin announced the epix in January and was not able to send him a test unit, before they start the selling. So there is no reason to hurry, and as we say in German ” good thing will take time”…
Indeed, it varies by product. Typically I do ‘First Look’ or ‘Hands-on’ posts when I haven’t had a product long, or, have only had it a short bit of time to poke with.
An in-depth review is almost always done on final software and hardware, and usually for an extended period of time (i.e. 30+ days).
Anybody tried to create (or upload) a route using bikeroutetoaster, then export it to Garmin Connect and follow it on the Epix? Here in Hong Kong we’re pretty short on downloadable mapping content so if this would work we’d have one option at least. Many thanks!
So for what it is worth, here are some thoughts after a couple of days with the Epix.
Overall it’s an amazing watch but let down by two issues. The first is it is definitely buggy – I am sure Garmin can sort this in time but it’s hard to swallow when you have just forked out £400 on a top of the range watch. Secondly aesthetically it’s no supermodel. I’ve upgraded from the Fenix 3 which in my opinion is stunning; in comparison the Epix is very much an ugly stepsister.
I spent most of the first day figuring out how the maps work. It’s not intuitive and the manual is as good as useless. Eventually I was able to get OpenCycleMaps for the whole of the UK on, just by copying the IMG file directly to the watch. However I was most keen on getting OS maps on the watch, and after a lot of googling realised the way to do this was to use Garmin Basecamp (for my Mac) and purchase some BirdsEye Select Great Britain credits.
Once I had registered the watch the process worked smoothly and I loaded the OS tiles onto the watch. Running with the map and a preloaded course was brilliant – you can see the route clearly and the surrounding map helps you pinpoint the exact places to navigate, especially useful for when a path forks and it’s not clear just by breadcrumb trails alone which path to take.
Nothing quite beats the smugness of seeing your location, the map and the course all on you wrist. The only slight problem is it’s quite slow to redraw the map if you move it around. The touch interface works nicely though.
Would I recommend it? Yes – once the bugs are fixed, but knowing that the bugs are so obvious I can’t see Garmin not fixing them. It’s got all the same great features as the Fenix 3 plus all the mapping functionality, so it’s unlikely you’ll miss anything in terms of functionality. It’s just a shame Garmin couldn’t replicate the design of the Fenix 3 with the Epix.
I’ll be interested to hear what Ray has to say!
What kind of bugs are you seeing? For me, I’ve had no trouble with my Epix so far. The problems I’ve had with it are all due to Garmin desktop software. I’ve only used it a few times, but the GPS tracks look OK (there are a few problems here and there), no ANT+ dropouts and no freezes at all. The one hardware problem is that the charging cable has a stuck pin, so I can no longer reliably use it. (Since I was going to do it anyway, I’ve ordered two more so I have some spares.)
Unexpectedly, I now own an Apple Watch, given to me by my daughter on Father’s Day. So here’s a brief direct comparison:
Looks: Watch is a thoroughbred, Epix is a Clydesdale.
Software: Apple wins. All sorts of apps on my iPhone 5c had Watch components, and most of them are now on the watch. I haven’t even looked at the ConnectIQ store yet.
Screen: Watch wins indoors and in the dark, Epix wins outdoors. You can’t see the Watch in direct sunlight, while the Epix is beautiful under those conditions. One perceptive review of the Watch I read when it first came out said something to the effect that “Watch is the device that actively discourages you from using it”. The screen is off unless you press the crown or do the arm raise and it works. (That’s one reason I found the idiotic commercial segment where a moron does a track stand in heavy traffic and then raises his arm completely stupid; the Watch probably wouldn’t come on anyway.) You can’t side glance to see the time like you can with the always on Epix screen.
Fitness: Don’t be absurd. Watch is not a serious fitness device.
Notifications: Just work on the Watch. With the Epix, it worked sometimes and didn’t other times. The Watch also has Siri, so you can reply to texts without getting your iPhone out.
So, after a week of wearing my Epix as my daily watch, now it sits with all of my other special purpose devices, and the Watch stays on my wrist. Watch will never come with my cycling, while I still want to try out the Epix on a couple of mountain bike rides (if the rain will finally stop so the forest can dry out) and it’s my backup device if my Edge 800 ever fails until I (quickly, because I dislike wrist mounted devices for cycling) replace the 800.
GPS FW Update 2.90 (23.06.2015) (via webupdater)
Changes made from version 2.80 to 2.90:
Improve positioning performance and distance accrual in some circumstances.
Just to reiterate a point mentioned in the changelog, after applying GPS software updates, for best results please allow the device to track GPS signals continuously for 10 to 15 minutes. With our extensive internal testing, this is absolutely necessary for best results.
“extensive internal testing” LOL!
Hi
I have a Fenix 3 and I am looking for a device to be used when mountain biking. I would like to have maps for off road tracks. I am not sure Garmin topo maps provide off road tracks as well.
I was considering either the Edge 1000 or the Epix. Any suggestion? Does the Epic provides maps for of off road tracks? Does it work nice? Can you really keep following the map on such small screen?
Thanks
Mario
Only for mountain biking? Definitely the 1000. I haven’t taken my Epix out on my MTB yet (possibly tomorrow), but I have on the road, and there’s just no way that it matches even my 800, let alone a 1000. Now if you’re planning on using it for something else, that’s a different story. I bought my Epix primarily for cross country skiing, where an Edge simply doesn’t work well.
The Garmin TOPO maps, at least in my area, don’t have all of the trails in the area. OpenStreetMaps are best for that since they’re crowd sourced, so they will generally have the trails that people use. Often they’re routable, but that depends on the specific map.
Epix is still a half-baked product, so I would not recommend as of today.
While it tracks and navigates a preloaded course OK on the road, when you go offroad into tree coverage, the map starts to lag and after a while goes totally blank and unusable, until you stop, and wait until the map catches up, and find itself. Totally distructing the main purpose of this watch. There has been a few firmware updates, but still Garmin was unable to tackle this problem.
Thanks for the comment. I was planning to sell the Fenix 3 and get the Epix but looking the answers I’ll keep the Fenix 3 and just get an edge 1000 for the MTB.
It’s buggy as hell. Anyone who says it isn’t hasn’t really used it in real scenarios other than playing with it in their house.
I just dont agree, this must be related to very poor reception in a specific area. I have hiked several times in scandinavian area without any issues at all. And this is even without Glonas/WAAS/Egnos
How much MB’s space is there left to load topo maps on the epix? i’ve been told there are less mapping capabilities for the fenix 3 compared to the fenix 2 version. Is this true?
I have got the European version with preloaded topo Europa (the map is about 2.5 gb).
Explorer shows me:
Memory: 7,23 GB
Used memory: 2,77 GB
Free memory: 4,45 GB
I have deleted the not routable topo Europe to have left more memory for other maps.
Since I have my Epix plugged in at the moment, I can answer that. I bought the model that comes with the 100k TOPO maps for the entire US, which are about 3.2 Gb. I’ve added portions of the US TOPO 24k Northeast, which take up about 1 Gb. I’ve got at the moment 3.29 Gb free. So basically everything except the maps takes about 200 Mb.
The Fenix 3 does not take maps at all. You can install (although not officially) maps on the Fenix and Fenix 2, but there’s only about 25 Mb of total space on them, so you can’t put much on.
I used the Epix this weekend on a 73km, 20000 ft ultra and can’t say my experience was positive; principally down to battery life.
(1) In GPS mode, the battery life is max 10 hours, not the 24 hours advertised. That’s a huge discrepancy and I would argue dangerous to claim something so far from reality. I’d battery saving mode active, activity tracking off, bluetooth off etc and was shocked to see the battery down to 33% after under 7 hours.
(2) On-the-go recharging doesn’t work/isn’t supported. I recharged the watch during a few times during the ultra and the watch rebooted every time, as soon as the battery had been disconnected.
After positive 1st impressions, it’s now going back to the retailer. I feel very misled by Garmin.
1) I agree with you about the battery life. Based on the battery indicator and a couple of 2 hour rides, I’m estimating mine will last around 10 hours. I had GLONASS and WAAS/EGNOS on and Bluetooth on, with 1 s recording, so I don’t know by fooling around with settings whether I can make it last longer. Activity tracking is always off.
2) There are two USB settings, “mass storage” and “Garmin”. If you set it to Garmin, it will ask you whether you want it to mount as a disk when you plug it in. If you say no, it will continue to operate normally, and when I disconnect mine, it continues on, without rebooting. I don’t have one of my USB batteries within reach, but plugging it into my computer did not cause it to reboot. So on-the-go recharging should work.
Thank you, I wish I had known (2) before the event; as I pointed out above the manual is useless. You’d think this was quite an important detail for Garmin to tell it’s customers.
As for the battery life, I was only using GPS, the other methods were off. Of course I took 24 hours with a pinch of salt, but given that I thought 20 hours would be perfectly achievable. Still v annoyed with Garmin!
Charge battery during activity works perfect with me. Clip it on a batterypack and not chose mass storage. It will then charge and you can use it while charging.
On battery life: Without recharge I was out for 70km run in 7 hours with navigation on, bluetooth off and last hour light on. It went from 100% to 38%
Ray, any chance you can shed any light on the battery performance of the Epix vs the 24 hour quoted life. Do you find that most GPS units (any brand) are within say 80% of the quoted battery life, or is it common that brands will create completely artificial scenarios such that an actual performance of 40% or so is the norm. Thanks!
I haven’t tested the battery life yet. I’ve got another unit I’m going to plop up on the roof in the next few days and do some different long-battery life tests. That specific test has it’s limits, but it at least generally establishes a ceiling.
When it comes to GPS battery life – it’s super tricky. There’s a lot of factors that influence it, such as GPS signal strength (i.e. wood areas hurt battery life as the GPS chipset has to work harder), as well as obvious ones like backlight, vibration alerts, Bluetooth usage, etc…
Hi Ray,
a “roof battery test” don`t show you/us, the real battery life during a hike/bike trip, because of the missing “moving map action” and pressing some buttons during the trip. But I think, you know this already (I just want to mention it).
I have the IQ store widgets/apps/watch faces/data fields under suspicion to be responsible for a larger battery consumption/drain. A lot of this stuff isn`t working/working well on the epix yet (the developers (I think don`t have a epix to test) run it only in the simulator, there it works, but often not in real life).
regards
Volker
Yeah, this would basically be just establishing a bit of an upper ceiling of battery life.
Thanks Ray, appreciate you taking the time to answer. As an aside – do you or anyone know how to turn the off course vibration alerts off, I would have thought they use a lot of battery?
This timelapse of the Epix in a static location gave 21 hours before turning off:
link to youtube.com
I’ve got no ConnectIQ stuff on my Epix, yet it goes 100 -> 38% in approximately 6 hours (but I have BT always on, with 1-2 notifications per hour). I blame maps (TOPO AU & NZ, to be precise).
Seems like map redraw sucks battery life quicker than anything else.
Can someone tell me, is that buy it on eBay cheaper than the retail price?
Here is the link:
(Link to unrelated FR225 zapped)
Thanks
That link doesn’t lead to an Epix. So, yeah, considerably cheaper than an Epix, but not an Epix.
Hi ray,
When are you planning to post the Epix in-deph review?
Thanks
Soon, just a big backlogged with 4+ new product announcement posts this week.
Ray,
My understanding is that Epix is the same features as Fenix 3 but with mapping (and touch screen). The epix manual has nothing on Mapping…. I tend to use your reviews as the goto manual. in short a strong emphasis on mapping
(BTW its fun to record flights with Epix, good boredom relief and then see the great circle route on a map later on)
Long flights on jet planes follow the Jet-streams normally to save fuel and time I believe so probably aren’t actually great circle routes. I’m certainly now curious though, do you mind posting a link to a track?
No pressure meant, but soon when? Like almost today, or somewhen in July? Thx
:-)
Soon? :-(
Hi,
Got my Epix but the battery life on oy was only like 24h. Did I set something up wrong? Ive got the 920xt and leave the Bluetooth on with activity tracker and it lasts me a week at least, training twice a day.
What do I do wrong?
Thanks
The Epix is supposed to launch in South Africa sometime in July with a version of the local South African Topo maps pre-loaded. Waiting in suspense for Ray’s review to drop. What I’ve seen in the comments section in the hands-on above hasn’t been very encouraging, a lot of returns etc (unable to compare it to the volume sold, so not sure if it means anything, for all I know there may be a lot of happy users out there). The latest FW update discussions on the Garmin forums (re FW 2.40) seems to be encouraging though.
Etienne,
I have been a long time lurker both here and the Garmin Forums for the Epix. I too had a lot of reservations about purchasing the Epix based off of previous user experience. However, I can say without a doubt I have really enjoyed my Epix.
Now full disclosure, I’m a runner and a hiker/backpacker. I don’t use the multi-sport functions, I don’t plan on using turn-by-turn directions (though I have played with that function). I don’t use the activity tracking or sleep tracking. However, I do have it linked to my android phone (LG G3) via bluetooth and use the watches weather app. I used notifications for a little bit but found it annoying and not something I felt I needed, so I shut them off. When I did use notifications, not all notifications on my phone would appear on my Epix, but for the most part it worked and I imagine will be sorted out with future FW updates.
I have loaded up multiple maps and birdseye imagery and have been completely satisfied and many times incredibly impressed at what this watch can do.
It does have it’s limitations which may or may not be fixed in future FW updates.
For one, enabling multiple map layers at one time (depending on the size of the layer) can slow down the watch to a crawl and in some cases lock it up. However, even desktop GIS applications like ArcMap can suffer from this if you load up a lot of huge detailed layers. So really it’s a matter of scale…this watch is going to only do so much. That being said I have had topgraphic, planametric and birdseye imagery all enabled and the watch is still functional…though panning/zooming the map is noticeably slower.
The other issue I have personally seen is zooming out too far using certain layers has caused the watch to flake out where the touchscreen will no longer function and I have to reboot the watch. Now, when I say zoom out…I’m talking like 20 miles out. I haven’t performed a lot of troubleshooting with this issue…it could be hardware limitation, it could be the layers I had enabled…I don’t really know.
I have used this watch most recently for running. I have 65+ miles of runs on it so far and haven’t had a problem with it lagging, locking up, losing data or any of the other issues I have seen here or on the Garmin forums.
I have done a couple of small hikes that were a couple of hours long and again had no problems. One hike was in the rain and I have not had any of the issues regarding the screen being activated by water that some other users have reported. In fact, I have taken the watch in the shower multiple times and have never had a problem with the water and screen activations.
Battery life has been completely acceptable and blows away my old 405cx. As a test I charged my watch to 100% on a Sunday. Throughout the week I used the GPS for a total of about 6 hours on the one-second updates. It was connected to my phone via bluetooth all week. By the following Sunday my watch was down to about 25%.
Lastly, I find the watch very comfortable to wear. I swore I wouldn’t wear it as an everyday watch and now find myself wearing it everyday…even as I type this post. Sure, it’s a big watch, but I equate it to wearing a wide bracelet or something…for me it’s simply an non-issue. And for some perspective, I’m not a big guy: 5’8″, 170lbs.
I understand that I use the watch based on my needs and requirements and this is going to be different from everyone else. But for me so far the Epix has met and often exceeds my expectations.
I hope my post helps,
Jason
So I tested out the Epix at Ironman Hades (AKA Ironman Coeur d’Alene) on June 28th. I was pleased with its results. Due to the ridiculous heat I didn’t pay attention to my power or speed during the race and focused on my HR level (best indicator of body’s response to heat). The watch lasted until mile 24 of the run…so approx 14 hours and 20 mins. I am pleased with this because in most ironman races I don’t need this much time. It was clearly a slow race due to the heat. I am sure there were some settings I could have changed for longer battery life. I turned off bluetooth and maps but ran Power and HR monitor (and it was a LONG bike ride in really hot heat). It was great to see the temp readings during the bike which correlated to everyone’s slower 2nd loop of the bike.
I also used it for a week while hiking in Glacier National Park (the real reason I wanted the Epix to begin with) and it worked great. My distance it calculated was much more accurate that my hiking partners using different GPS watches. I didn’t change the settings to anything fancy. The only map I used was the US City map since Garmin’s SW update cleaned off the TOPO map I bought preloaded.
The watch is still too bulky on my tiny wrist to wear comfortably as a daily watch. I plan to return this one to REI to swap it for one with the Topo map still on it (it is true that Garmin said the preloaded maps can’t be put back on since their clearing of them in an update…correct?).
Cheers,
Angela
Thanks Jason,
The hardware seems solid and the tech support in SA is pretty good. They’re liberal with swop outs if anything serious is found (I’ve had three 910xt swop outs due to the barometer failing). I am a (slow) multi-sport athlete so things like battery life will play a role for me…probably the first part I’ll skip to when the review is put up. I have some GIS background (MapInfo) so I understand what you’re saying. Multiple large and detailed map sets on a device this size will put it under severe strain.
All devices have their usability and functionality quirks. Will just have to figure out the ones that affect me and learn to work with them.
This watch is turning into the marmite watch for me. When it works, and also when you figure out it’s idiosyncrasies, it’s brilliant. When it doesn’t work, or just as importantly when it is not clear how it works, it’s a real disappointment.
Now I’m getting more used to the watch, the mapping functionality is brilliant. e.g. long runs in new places, simple diversions, new trails etc on existing runs. I’ve worked out the problem I had with recharging on the go, and the watch is better than the Fenix 3 here – it is easy to plug in a lightweight recharger and at the same time still navigate etc off the watch.
There are still occasional bugs – e.g. battery life seems to suddenly drop every now and again. I think with a couple of more software updates (assuming no new bugs) Garmin could really nail it. And I wish they would allow users to disable the Lap button, it’s so easy to confuse Lap and Back and screw up the lap counter.
For me, Bluetooth alerts, syncing etc all seem to work fine and are all useful.
Having previously said I would return it to the retailer, I am hanging on to it!
That makes the news I received today a bitter sweet. I was informed that there’s a problem with the supply chain of the local unit. Delivery has been shifted to somewhere in Q4 2015. On the plus side, it forces me to be patient for a few more months while Garmin also sorts out additional niggles.
I bought the 100k maps after the watch and was able to download it to the watch from the Garmin site. They also allowed me to use the 10% coupon they gave me for registering the watch for the map cost so it is cheaper or the same if you buy the maps after the fact. I think there is no advantage in returning the watch and getting the bundled map.
Software Version 2.50 just dropped. Ready, set, GO!
Hi Ray,
Great first look. When will the in-depth review be published?
Thank you.
I’ve collected basically all the data (and opinions) I could ever need at this point. Just a case of having a few spare days to write up the review and capture all the final photos. Right now I’ve been slammed with both work travel, as well as friends and family having been visiting sequentially now for the last 4 weeks (like a rotating door).
Hi,
Have been loving all the gps reviews. I’m currently trying to decide on what my first gps device will be. I’m torn between the fenix, epic and possibly a handheld gps. I think I’d like the Fenix but would love if it was possible to pair the fenix with app on my phone which show my location on detailed maps. I’m not sure if Garmin or a third party currently offer this but I think it would be a great addition.
Apologies if this something that is obvious but I had done a fair bit of reaching into this and not found any. I would need topography and marine data primarily
Cheers
But your phone almost certainly has GPS, so it can already do that.
Yes my phone can already do this but I am looking for something with very good intergation between watch, phone and web (to view past trips etc).
I was proably not too clear in what I am actually looking for in the above but I will try to be clearer in below.
* View maps offline (no cell or data usage)
– do you recommend any particular provider or source
– ideally id like to use one source so that all maps would be consistent / the same level of detail etc
– mountain topography (marine maps not as important)
* Pair the phone with external gps unit for better accuracy & to capture more data
* View, store & share trips in much the same way as can be done in Basecamp & Strava
It would be great if could use a gps watch to capture all the data and at the same time be able to look at my phone when I need to see where exactly I am
Any advise or recmmendations really appreciated
Thanks
Tadhg
So far as I know, no one offers something like this, especially the one thing you seem to want. But, as I said, that’s the one thing that your phone already does. The fact that it uses it’s own GPS instead of another device’s doesn’t change the answer, and doesn’t make it less accurate.
My Epix can be synced with Garmin Connect via Bluetooth, does a bunch of smart watch functions, and I think it offers Live Tracking. But none of those will work without cell service, and Live Tracking shows other people where you are at the moment, and so far as I know doesn’t show you where you are on your phone. So it pairs with a phone, but not as tightly as you seem to want.
So lets focus on the device itself. Since you seem to like the larger screen of your phone, then if I were you I’d look at handhelds. If you want maps on your wrist, the only choice is the Epix. (Yeah, OK, Fenix/Tactix/Fenix 2 support maps of a sort, but their internal storage is very small. Fenix 3 doesn’t support maps at all.) Handhelds give you more options, and I believe other manufactures besides Garmin make them. I own an old Garmin 60CSx. The advantages of handhelds are the larger screen, the larger antenna (not as likely to have GPS problems, but it’s not impossible), and many of them use standard replaceable batteries, so instead of worrying about recharging it you simply carry along spare batteries. The disadvantage is the size; you have to keep it somewhere. If your hands are free, then that’s not much of a problem, since pulling it out (I use a belt clip) is easy. If your hands aren’t free, then it becomes more of a problem. (When I go hiking these days I take my Epix, since the dog comes along with me and my hands aren’t free.) The advantage of a watch is that it’s easy to consult even if your hands are full. The disadvantages are the smaller screen, the internal rechargeable battery that can’t be swapped out in an instant, and the smaller GPS antenna. So far as I know, all modern Garmin handhelds pair with fitness sensors and of course all of these devices record tracks containing both position and the data from whatever fitness sensors are paired. So the tracks can be put on Garmin Connect/Strava/wherever.
Thanks for the detailed reply Paul.
Yes the crux of the problem seems to be that I cant download detailed maps on my phone on Garmin Connect / Strava apps and essentially use that as my handheld gps. I want to use Garmin Connect / Strava so I can store and share trips which although some apps do offer but they seem rather small scale and low budget.
I would be using the gps for backcountry skiing, trail running and sailing so ideally id be able to view trip data on my watch and then pull out my phone on occasion so I can view my location on a map.
It is just me or does it seem like this could be a nice area for someone like GC or Strava to expand into? I know mytracks (google owned) and a few other small players offer something like this but they all seem low budget and are fairly limited in their options..
Fair enough garmin are trying to protect their handheld gps market but someone like strava/mytracks should be all over this. Why should I shell out extra money on hardware(handheld gps) that my phone can already handle it (fair enough battery life, robustness etc but good enough for causal users)
Sorry rant over!
I have been looking at some handheld gps units like the 62sc and the etrex 30 but then I do lose the convenience of been able to glance at my wrist. How do you find the Epix when using maps?
I suppose I could have my watch and just run an app independently on my phone, upload my watch data to GC/Strava. Its not the full circle I was hoping for but if its not out there then that may be the best option. Would just mean that if im trying to get to specific waypoints I would have to enter all the waypoints on both phone and watch.
Nothing is easy!
Yes, it’s hard to find a single device that can do everything well. When I bought the 60CSx back in 2006, I had hoped that it could do everything, but for a variety of reasons over the years I’ve accumulated more specialized devices. I now use an Edge 800 for road and mountain biking, a Nuvi for driving (just this week bought a new one), and the Epix replaces the Fenix I used for 3 winters for cross country skiing and the occasional hike. (My Apple Watch and iPhone 5c are never used for outdoors activities; I usually leave the Watch at home when I’m out doing something.)
The Epix screen is very good in sunlight, either direct or indirect. (Not so good indoors; the exact opposite of my Apple Watch, which is illegible to hard to see outdoors.) Map details are excellent for such a small screen. The track is acceptable (I just got back from a short hike and the track is here), but not terrific. I’ve used both Garmin’s US 24k TOPO maps and OpenStreetMap based maps from openmtbmap.org and they both work fine. (I haven’t tried panning the map during an activity though, and I’ve seen a lot of complaints about the slow refresh when doing that.) Unlike the two previous Garmin devices I’ve bought upon their release, the Edge 705 and the VIRB Elite, I’ve had no real problems with the Epix, certainly no freezes or crashes leading to loss of data. But at this time of year I’m not really using it; I’ve taken it out on a few road and mountain bike rides and done a couple of hikes, but I’m not really going to start using it for what it’s meant for until this winter (I hope; snowfall around here isn’t guaranteed).
Perhaps you need a watch, which can be used as a”display” of your phone, on which an app is running? For example the pebble time link to getpebble.com
Over the weekend I used the Topo Maps+ app on my phone which allowed me to track my trail run on a downloaded map which was reasonably detailed. When I got home I was able to export this into google maps and google earth both of which were pretty cool and interesting to view. I was then able to save the route in google maps and earth and share them with friends. The runs ‘performance data’ time, avg speed, etc was not available to view in google but was available in Topo Maps+ both mid run and afterwards.
As Volker suggested maybe I could use a watch like peddle to view the data midrun by displaying Topo Maps+ info, this could be possible but Topo Maps+ was far from polished and seems quite basic in this area.
Also as a sailor id like to had a compass and gps on my watch, getting the bearing to a particular mark/waypoint is particularly important, but using pebble could be an option for just my runs.
Thanks for all your input Paul. I think I am going play around with Topo Maps+ and look into another app called Gaia which costs €20 so I want to find out what benefits I would get for this. Maybe these will suffice for my mapping purposes but I will definitely be looking at a navigation watch of some description. Cheers
Hey Ray —
Do you know when there will be full review of the Epix?
Same Q as Dave – when is the future promised full review coming? it’s been over 7 months since you wrote this teaser… thanks!
Ray is probably waiting for the real and stable production firmware because current version looks like an early beta and the review would be too criticizing..
Nah, just simply a case of having friends/family occupying our home for the last 5-6 weeks and touring around Europe has left me with far less time than I envisioned. Thankfully after the TdF finish on Sunday, normalcy resumes for August. You’ll see a boatload of reviews pop out.
While I’m still using Epix on the latest firmware, at this point most of my opinion has been formed for a while and really hasn’t changed much.
It’s really just not a device I enjoy using that much for a variety of mostly small reasons (screen refresh, lack of proper phone integration with Basecamp features, openwater swim issues, the UI somehow feels clunkier than the Fenix3, etc…). My review will reflect that.
As far as general GPS accuracy across a wide range of scenarios, it’s generally on par with the Ambit3 and v800. I’ll finish updating the now huge table I have with every activity file I it, for folks to make their own comparisons.
Sounds if you aren’t very satisfied with the epix? What will we see first:
Epix 2 announcement from Garmin or your epix review? :)
Just kidding, I am very curious on your review!
:-)
Lay off Ray! The man is a legend, doing this in his spare time. If you want to find out what the Epix is like, stop complaining and go and buy one!
Ray fairly discloses his independency from the producers, but afaik he never stated that he has no profit from creating and maintaining this webpage. Just a hypothetical hint: 10% discount.
But anyway either collecting some direct/indirect profit or not, it is not the readers’ business to ask about it. But as everywhere people (that is readers) like to harvest other people’s promises, while they are not always able to keep theirs.
So after Ironman CDA I was convinced to keep my Epix. Then all hades broke loose. I am assuming the problem was my watch was still on 2.5 and 2.7 is now out (I just updated). It went back to turning off all sensors (GPS, HR, Power) everything it is paused or you go back to the main screen to try to do something like calibrate the power sensor. I have now had multiple rides with only parts of data (thank goodness for my Garmin 800). When it turned off during an FTP test I literally threw it to the ground…rather ticked off. Additionally the bluetooth notifications are still useless. I constantly miss all of the ones I care about while riding and running. It defeats the purpose of notifications.
And…so I am wondering if I will venture into Fenix 3 world. Rather annoying given I have a 70.3 this coming weekend and another 140.6 soon. Is a reliable watch too much to ask for?
So…what do people think about the Fenix 3?
Cheers,
Angela
IDR – R. I. P. ?
Obscured by giveaways
I’ve been using an Epix for a little over a month now, and for a hiking/fitness user, it’s better than anything else I’ve tried. I suspect that much of the unhappiness is that the extras in the Epix (why you’d buy it over a Fenix3 or a 920xt) are ALL backcountry focused – nothing new for triathletes or even for athletes in general. I’m a landscape photographer (and a pedestrian commuter), and I find the Epix’s particular set of features compelling – the maps DO work, and are really nice to have. I also find the interface far more intuitive than anything Suunto, although I suspect that is personal taste.
That said, the Epix is NOT bug-free – I have had a few crashes and an occasional issue with the backlight sticking on.
I had high hopes for the Apple Watch, because Apple really does user interface right (much “righter” than Suunto OR Garmin), whatever else they get right and wrong. Unfortunately, they REALLY chased an urban/fashion crowd. NO GPS without a phone? NO altimeter/barometer? An incredible number of functions aimed at keeping up with social networks? Tim Cook said some very insulting things about people who love nature and want to connect with the natural world instead of Facebook – there were a couple of interviews in which Cook said things like “Apple Watch is designed for the modern user whose world is all online”. That very philosophy is unappealing to me, and the Epix is the exact opposite – it is an outdoor watch with a few smartwatch functions (and a useful map) tacked on, not a techie watch that pretends to do outdoor things. \
Other than looks, I can’t see why anyone would choose a Fenix 3 over an Epix – the Epix does everything the F3 does, and adds the map for a small increment in price. The 920xt is thinner, lighter and notably cheaper, and I can see the appeal to a pure athlete who doesn’t care at all about the navigation/backcountry functions. The Epix is actually no heavier than the F3 (and much lighter than the metal-band version), it just looks chunkier!
One of the first days I had my Apple Watch, I brought Siri up and asked “What’s my altitude?”, to which Siri replied something snarky like “I don’t know Paul, but don’t look down”. I have an iPhone 5c; possibly the answer might have been different if I had a 6/6+ with the built in barometric altimeter.
My Epix has been the most trouble free of all Garmin devices that I’ve bought upon first release (Edge 705, VIRB Elite, and now the Epix). Aside from a glitch with the OS X desktop software (a bad interaction between BaseCamp and Express) that erased it a couple of times, I’ve had no freezes or crashes or any other problems with the Epix itself. Of course, this time of year I use it only occasionally.
“I’ve had no freezes or crashes or any other problems with the Epix itself. Of course, this time of year I use it only occasionally.”
Yupp, the last part explains it all. I had mine for 3 months now and for sure it is the least reliable Garmin product I have owned. Well the 310xt was quite bad in the beginning to but several updates fixed that in the end but REALLY it should not be like that…
To be fair, I actually haven’t had any recent crashes/freezes either on Epix. I think the last time I had a single one was way back in early June or late May.
The comparison Matrix says that only the 920XT supports recorded HR from the HRM-Tri. I was under the impression at least the F3 was compatible with the HRM-Tri and HRM-Swim. Garmin website also seems to confirm all three work with swimming store and forward HR straps. Am I wrong?
I’ve updated the database to reflect the same. Thanks!
Ray,
Great review, as always. One question, though. Spec comparison chart above says “No” to “Record HR Underwater” for the Fenix 3 and the Epix, but Garmin’s site shows that both watches are compatible with the HRM-Tri and HRM-Swim sensors. Am I reading Garmin’s site wrong or does the chart need an update?
Catch dinner at La Robe et le Palais while you’re in Paris (near Pont Neuf station). A little on the expensive side (not really for Paris), but great local fare. No English menus there!
Thanks!!!
Z
The database should all show the same now for all three (Epix/920XT/F3), I just updated it a few hours ago. You might need to refresh your page.
And thanks for the recommendations – always looking for places to explore!
Yep . . . my bad. Started typing at night, got tired, went to sleep, and finished just before my am run. Refresh brought up the new spec matrix . . . and Nick’s post with basically the same question I had. Thanks for the update! You’re reviews are invaluable!
Z
For your product comparison tool:
epix:
geocaching: yes (but no paperless geocaching)
tides: yes (with additional garmin bluechart maps) link to naviboard.de; link to naviboard.de
I think Volker has shown that the epix can indeed display tidal tables information. It looks like your comparison tool is not representing that at the moment.
Thanks, I’ve updated the table to show Volker’s mods. Appreciate it!
(Note: I didn’t initially set it for yes, because previously on the earlier Fenix models it was actually included straight-up, and didn’t require extra maps).
Hi Ray,
thanks for updating.
It is sad, that the epix did not support paperless geocaching. I can´t understand, why Garmin has not added this feature. Same thing with gps strength and sat constalllaition data page. I know the epix is on a sw line with f3 and 920xt, but it can´t be very complicated for garmin to add these features .
And the epix, with its outstanding navigation/mapping features, has to have an elevation plot data page for tracks with elevation data/calculated routes (on a map with elevation data), to see during an activity, whats coming up and where on the plot I am…
Waiting for your “in depht review”. Perhaps I can read there something about “missing things”…
regards
Volker
Hi Ray,
btw. tides, tides for the US coast can you get here from garmin:
link to www8.garmin.com
Download to your pc
install
transfer the tides map to your epix.
The tides data should be found on the epix under:
menu>map points>navaids
I can`t tell you how “up to date” the tide datas are, but they work:
link to naviboard.de
link to naviboard.de
:)
tidal software doesn’t need to be up to date other than matching up with any changes made to UTC time which are rare and very small. Occasionally man made structures or natural events can change a tide for a location but again this is rare. The software only needs an algorithm and any corrections for a given location and it can work out tides for any given time and date. Unfortunately it would be quite costly to include data for all locations since it’s not a single algorithm to fit all and the owners of the algorithms are quite protective sometimes (UK Admiralty for one!). It can also complicate matters when an area (such as Poole, UK) have more than one high water time per cycle, giving 4 high tide times for the day and 2 low times.
I agree completely with the missing features Volker points out. In my case I am most interested in an elevation plot during the activity. I navigate tracks most of the time, and would like to have something similar to the elevation plot on the oregon line of handhelds,
link to static.garmincdn.com
This should be adapted, of course, to the epix screen limitations
Right now the only graphic elevation data available is under Navigation / Courses / Elevation Profile, this is by the way, not available for recorded activities under history, which should have this data (you need to rely on Garmin Connect Mobile to review elevation)
Last there is no easy way to navigate an old activity that might be uploaded on garmin connect, but was not recorded on the epix. you must save the activity as a course, and then transfer the course to the watch, however this activity save as course seems not to be available from the app, you need to go to the web browser view of garmin connect.
Thank you Volker!
Regarding Tidals up to date, I can confirm it matches my Tactix Tide Data exactly….
This makes my Epix that much more Complete; now Gamin just need to address a few SW issues and bugs and I will be a very happy camper!
Where exactly do you get tide info for the epix?
~ aben,
Just as Volker stated, I downloaded the zipped file to my PC (didn’t work on my mac) directly from the www8garmin link that Volker pinned on his Post# 785 &786; I then unzipped and copied over the main file (not the text file) into the primary garmin folder (first garmin folder you see upon your watch plugin to your usb connection).
You’ll then find it under Navaids, which will show harbor locations via map mapview , there will be circle, I pressed the circle on the touchscreen and then the tidal tables came up! :D
The epix “in depth review” seems to have no high priority? I no you are busy etc., but I am wondering a little bit…
Has garmin asked you to wait with it (because it may be “bad” for them)?
I meant of course: “know”
It simply has less priority than the FR225 and GoPro Hero4 Session, because those are ones I’m asked about daily by many people. I’m asked about the Epix by basically just a couple people here. It’s really just a numbers things right now with finite time.
Garmin hasn’t asked me to wait, though they know it’s incoming.
Hi Ray,
I am also waiting for Epix review if that helps ;-)
Had the Fenix 3 for a few months and loved it but the sound never worked out the box and there was an air bubble trapped in the glass (had the sapphire version) so returned it to clever training. Now thinking of getting the Epix as I also do adventure racing and enjoy exploring cities and nature where a map could prove helpful (was not available when I bought the Fenix 3….) but I am over cautious to get a few additional functions with a lot more frustrations….
Thanks for the awesome reviews by the way!
Pretty disappointing to hear you say that Ray. I get what your saying but its still disappointing. You might as well as stop reviewing the Fenix and Ambit series or atleast take your time. The epix is the same watch as those but with touchscreen and navigation with maps. The navigation part with maps doesnt perform like it should but not alot of people know that. Its arguably the most advanced watch released (that doesnt live to expectations) and your’re taking your time which like i said..is disappointing.
Didn’t you return yours, or am I thinking of someone else?
The complexity may very well be why it’s taking so long, in addition to the new problems that arise as the firmware gets updated. For example, they broke the barometer/altimeter in 2.8. Where as before it was often off, it was at least consistent, with elevation gained pretty much the same as elevation lost. (It did record different altitudes in the FIT file than it displayed, and I think it still does.) Since 2.8, I get slanted profiles (the beginning and end off by more than 100 ft even though they’re the same place), and with GPS off between activities the altimeter and barometer drift all over the place. There are lots of things on my Epix that I’ll never use (“activity” tracking) or will use eventually but haven’t yet because it’s a new Garmin device and I doubt they’ll work (I stay away from ConnectIQ for now; I haven’t tried navigation, although they seem to have fixed the problem with uploaded routes from BaseCamp where it would navigate the roads and in addition do straight lines between waypoints, roughly tripling the actual distance), but I’m sure Ray has tested all of those. What I have tested on mine has worked well. No crashes, no data loss. Multiple different maps work. Cycling (road and mountain) tracks quality are on par with my Edge 800, “hiking” (walking the dog in the forest, so lots of stops for sniffing) tracks are jittery but acceptable. By December it should be ready to do the job I got it for.
Yes I did return mine as it wasn’t worth $600. With that being said I wanted to see a review to see if it has improved. I do keep up with some forum talk but I still can’t justify the price tag. Garmin put this product out too early and it would have been nice to see them get called out for it.
“You might as well as stop reviewing the Fenix and Ambit series or atleast take your time. The epix is the same watch as those but with touchscreen and navigation with maps.”
Except not really. It’s more expensive, uglier, bulkier, slower, and thus loses a lot of interest from a lot of people.
As Paul also points out below, the number of things to test is mind-boggling. Seriously, just look at this matrix at a high level:
Running outdoors
– City
– Forest
– Regular
– Tunnel drop situations
– Workout functionality
– Interval functionality
– Random other running functions
Running indoors
Elevations changes
Cycling outdoors
Cycling indoors
Swimming pool
Swimming openwater
Triathlon mode
Navigation
– With maps
– Without maps
– With maps using ‘Active Routing’ capabilities
General smartphone app functionality
Smartphone notifications
Connect IQ apps (widgets, apps, datafields)
Basecamp integration
Activity Tracking
Sleep Tracking
…and more things I’m forgetting.
Yet, despite all this – there is, again, almost no interest (comparatively) in the product (beyond about the four of us in this thread).
Fear not, I’m still going to call them on the buginess of the product, even things that were fixed – but weren’t at release.
Make that 5 of us…
Another topic you have mentioned on other product reviews is the sheer AMOUNT of new items being released at the moment. It is certainly making it very difficult for the average consumer to decide what to buy to fit a specific use case. That we don’t know which features touted on the box work or don’t work doesn’t help either. I also think that the frustration (unfirly) directed at you for not getting the review out is a symptom of this.
Question:
How much of the “I returned Garmin product XYZ” do Garmin actually feel themselves, and how much of this slack is taken up by some of their retailers in the US accepting returns up to a year later?
In our local market, I can tell you the consumer has to be VERY aware because the average retailer will not accept the return unless there is a clear out of box failure – and how do you describe the technical detail behind a piece of software not working as advertised (and sometimes expected) to the poor sales grunt on the floor? In South Africa, they would simply refer you to the local service agent, who will probably take a look at the item, and if your problem isn’t on some service advisory issued by Garmin or clearly a hardware failure, send you on your merry way with a look saying “you’re nuts”.
P.s. “unfirly” is like unfairly, but with fewer roots.
We are led to believe that the epix is the basically same electronics and SW as Fenix3. If correct and your verification is that it does perform similarly to F3 (gps accuracy, swim stroke accuracy etc) then u don’t need a detailed review of all that and just focus on navigation (in detail) incl basecamp.
It also has a touch screen, that is UI change to the F3
as far as looks if the constraints are a square (for mapping) and rather thick design then the watch looks good within those constraints. much better than the 910/920… certainly the F3 looks better…
I’m not seeing much of a basis for assuming they share a ton of hardware (for example, we know the communications chipets are different as the other units have WiFi). And we know the screen is different. Just to name a few….
Sounds for me, that dc don’t like the epix very much:
“It’s more expensive, uglier, bulkier, slower, and thus loses a lot of interest from a lot of people.”
And without interest of many people, there won’t be many ct orders…
It’s always funny when folks believe I prioritize products based on CT orders or not. Considering if you look at the last ~30 days worth of postings I have, I think only 2-3 actually have CT availability – the rest 3rd party only. And then within that, I explicitly tell you not to buy some of them that do have CT availability (i.e. Edge 1010 or the GoPro Session).
Further yet, if I was fully prioritizing on CT stockage, I’d have in-depth reviews for the Sony Action Cam, Vivosmart, Vivofit2, Edge 25 or others, to name a few.
All that said, I’m still really surprised there’s any question on my thoughts on the Epix – I think in every comment here I’ve posted that I don’t see the point. And this weekend in Switzerland really only cemented that even more.
When I saw your Saturday Swiss hike on your Strava feed and saw that the starting and ending altitudes were almost the same (of course, I have no idea if the altitudes at the start or end or in between are right), I decided to take my Epix on today’s mountain bike ride. I’ve been seeing lots of altitude/barometer drift since installing 2.8, so I was surprised by your profile. On the ride I got what I got previously with 2.8, a tilted profile with the end higher than the start (both are the same point). I use Auto Cal Continuous, and at the moment I don’t know whether that helps or hurts. Of course, your track is a lot more erratic than mine, but the Alps are higher than the Appalachians (but probably not any more wooded) so that might have something to do with it, as well as the generally lower speeds on a hike.
For the Saturday Swiss hike I started/ended at the same elevation (start was about 100yds away from finish, but on the same flats). For that I just left it with a single auto-calc once, not continuous. I didn’t manually enter an elevation as I didn’t know it.
With the track, yeah, that’s rougher on multiple devices I used that day. Hard to blame it too much though, it’s essentially an area surrounded by 1,500ft+ cliffs on all sides, so some areas did well, others it’s just going to be tough to get a clean lock. So it was mixed there.
For Sunday’s hike, I actually set the altitude since the train station had specified it upon exiting. We went up and down a few different ways on out and back trails from that station, and ultimately ended up hiking down to a lower station and ending there, so that’s a bit harder (but I do have photos of known altitudes on both). But since we passed the same spot three times it should be interesting to see how that handled. In that case I had manually set the calibration just once.
Ray,
You have more patience than I do. I believe at this point I would have to just start deleting comments by people who clearly can’t read well (you have shared your thoughts MANY times) and/or just lurk to be jerks. Thanks for all that you do. As a coach it is helpful to me to share your reviews with my athletes.
Cheers,
Angela
Henri – upgrade to the epix you won’t regret it. I was the same returned my Fenix 3 and took a chance on the epix. For trail running and exploring new places it’s brilliant, plus Garmin have now sorted most of the software niggles
Add me to the many that DO want the review. Without doubt the epix is a very curious watch all the functions of many other sports watches but with much much needed mapping (if it’s implemented well…)
i am a bit curious you think it is not interesting to people it is the top end garmin watch
Just judging from the traffic on the Garmin forums, not nearly as many people own an Epix as, say, a Fenix 3. There are no multi-thousand entry threads on GPS accuracy or altimeter accuracy in the Epix forums and not a lot of comparison tracks have been posted; the traffic is very modest.
Of course. Because Ray has not reviewed it!
Also waiting for the Epix…. There is a silent small majority of people waiting. Fenix 3 is definitely a good product that leaves the Epix in the shadow. Most people doesn’t even know there is a Epix and that it does virtually everything the Fenix 3 does and a few other things. I have a Fenix 2 and a friend has a 3 Saphire. Although the 3 is a fine watch that would make me upgrade, no doubts about it, Garmin removing the maps feature from the 3, prevent me from upgrading. I love to plan trail running adventures in the mountain and the additional maps are a life saving feature. I know because I have already lived one of those….
So I’m stuck in a Fenix 2, waiting for several Fenix 3 or Epix features, but only the maps would made upgrade. Can’t loose maps, but want several good stuff that only 3 or Epix have.
The price thing…. it’s expensive, but also the 3 is expensive.
So count me in Ray. Come on, you don’t have to test every other thing. At least the Fenix 3 stuff should be identical or almost.
Ive been creeping and stalking every day to see if a review has been posted.
Although I did cave in already and bought a fenix 3……love it.
But the epix would be AMAZING if they could sort their stuff out.
Thanks All. I’ll be up in the Swiss Alps this weekend, which should provide good testing ground. Though, if I go missing hiking – we can definitely blame the Epix…
Enjoy and good luck, holding thumbs you make it back and with positives!!!
Some good words about the Epix. Me too wanted to throw it out of the window in the first week. I now realize that partly it was difficult to work with as the manual is not that clear and complete and I simply had to get used to he Epix by using it. In addition, a lot of issues have been cleared in updates (still a shame of course the first release was not simply tested first by a group of active sportspeople). I now can work with it as I want to. Follow a route on the map works very very nice (not turn by turn navigation but simply see the route on the map and go left where you see your route goes left). Never get lost. Maps look fantastic. Sure, a somewhat faster screen refreshrate would be nice (and may be expected for the money) but in reality that is only an issue if you need to go left or right shortly all the time. Would be nice if you could quickly put a gpx (from dropbox or whereever) to basecamp and quickly put in on the Epix with basecamp mobile.
Epix just got a 30% pricecut here in Sweden, less than 3 months after its introduction. Epix failure?!
I suspect that’s just a single retailer (and then others following). Outside the US retailers are allowed to do whatever they want pricing-wise. Whereas in the US all pricing decisions have to be approved by Garmin (Tip: They very rarely approve retailer requests). Unfortunately, the US doesn’t have the laws that other countries have around pricing.
I’m also looking forward to the Epix IDR – in case it helps preponing its publication…
Some say this is an Epix review. You can try to find an Epix in it, I couldn’t…
link to youtu.be
Also waiting for an Epix review.
I agree that probably many people are waiting, actually, just that not many of them will write about this in comments.
So I think number of people that have indicated their interest above can be multiplied by 5 as a minimum.
For those getting impatient about their no-cost, free Garmin Epix review:
1) Read Ray’s Fenix 3 and imagine it with maps. It’s the same watch with maps added.
2) It works, very well, for runners/hikers/ultrarunners. I can’t vouch for cycling or swimming.
3) It worked flawlessly during my Leadville 100 race this year. 20 hours+ of battery life whilst navigating in maps mode, no software problems, maps helpful especially at night, GPS spot on.
4) The manual isn’t great, so stick with it a while whilst you work out it’s features. It’s worth it.
4) If you want a Fenix 3 + maps, buy one.
Simples.
I interrupted my upgrading cycle of fitness watches at 910XT, because barometric altimeter was a real value for me, but I cant see anything of similar magnitude since then except a detailed map in a watch. So it is why I was among who tried to push Ray for an in-depth Epix review.
No I understand that this push made no sense at all, and the byproduct of my enlightment was that I should avoid to buy not just Epix, but 920XT and Fenix3, too, for the time being.
Moreover now I can state that there were at least three stages of the 910XT production, because the watch I owned, or those I now own have different phenomena at elevation logging and total ascent/distance calculation. And these small differences among them have nothing to do with software versions, just the hardwares themselves.
So I’d be stupid to rush for a new watch, I am waiting now for a real breakthrough in fitness watch field. Real means real in fact: real not just in promises.
Suggestion:
I used to install all updates through Garmin Express. In the meantime 2.8. A friend suggested to nevertheless do a restore to factory settings reset. I did that yesterday and it really improved the Epix.
The delay in map refresh is gone. When I tested it in my car at 8o meters zoom level driving 100 kilometers per hour it refreshed fine!! No more white parts on the screen where the map could not refresh fast enough. I use the Benelux Pro maps which is the most detailed available.
Also noticed much faster gps fix.
Hopefully this also works for others.
Regards
Ron
Hi Ron did you use the menu to do a factory reset or the holding down buttons factory reset.
Thanks
Hi I used the menu
I have had the Epix for about two months, and I like it a lot despite the (significant number of) bugs. On the other hand, I’m not sure it’s a classic “Rainmaker” product. It’s not really any different from a Fenix 3 for an endurance athlete, except (as Ray has alluded to here) it’s bulkier and not as nice looking (and lacks WiFi, but what does the Fenix3 use WiFi for?). The big feature is the map, and that is of much more interest to hikers, etc. than it is to endurance athletes. I’m a hiker and landscape photographer (as well as a pedestrian commuter, and I use the Epix as a Fitbit equivalent as I walk to work and around town), and it’s by FAR the best GPS watch yet for my use, but my user profile is quite different from a triathlete’s. I’m willing to pay the small difference in price, as well as the bigger difference in appearance, to get the maps. Of course, I’m not trying to do the swim portion of a triathlon, where I wouldn’t be surprised if the drag of an Epix is actually noticeable, nor do I work in a fashion-conscious company (I teach photo and natural history at a university, where colleagues wear everything from Mickey Mouse watches to 1980s Casio calculator watches (along with more fashionable choices)). If I worked in a downtown law firm, I might well be able to get away with a Fenix3, but not an Epix.
I must say that I’m a bit disappointed by Ray not publishing a review of the most advanced Garmin GPS. I know his reasons, and I know it may be big and buggy but that doesn’t erase the fact that it’s the most advanced GPS wrist device. And it deserves to be reviewed. So my disappointment.
Same me!
No!! I´m very very diappointed!
und I think it´s for Ray not really a problem of having no time. (I beg your pardon Ray if I´m wrong !Please!)
IMVHO I think it´s revenge (pay back) to the fact that Garmin didn´t give him a watch right away the watch is available or the other reason could be that the watch is soo bad, that Ray cannot write a good review about that really bad watch (my opinion after had one for a while)without losing confidence by his readers in future and at the same time he will not spoil the business of his sponsor Clever Training! ( Pardon again Ray , but you cannot say your are independend if you say that they support this web side and even make it possible )
`n Lachen und `n Knuff!
Naomi
Seriously? These comments are so frustrating and disrespectful. Ray has written MANY reviews that say, “I wouldn’t buy this” on various products. People love his reviews because he is open, detailed, and honest. His comments here about the EPIX are no different. He has even said almost as much, “I wouldn’t buy this”, about the Epix in the mix of 800 comments here.
If you don’t like the watch (I didn’t) then return it, sell it, comment on what you did/did not like and move on. If you like it then keep it, use it, and comment on what works well. If you have time to blast someone who is an awesome resource to the community then grab whatever device you have and go train to burn off that energy.
Cheers,
Angela
The more I write, the more I start to think people don’t actually read what I write…
Seriously Naoimi? I think almost every single sentence you wrote in that comment is incorrect.
A) No, I don’t have lots of free time. True story.
B) I’ve long since forgotten that there was a delay between when Garmin sent an Epix to me and shipping to others. Didn’t even occur to me because I just walked down the street and bought my own. In fact, the unit they sent me I’ve used I think three times now for some random comparison stuff.
C) If I wanted to somehow extract revenge from Garmin, I certainly wouldn’t pick a product that 99% of the people don’t care about.
D) I don’t think the “watch is so bad”, rather, I’ve said I just don’t think it’s worth it (for me, or for most people).
E) I often write reviews/posts telling people not to buy products, including Garmin products. I think certain people have selective reading skills.
F) Clever Training has never ever asked/implied/questioned anything in a review. There’s no reason for them to, if I recommend a bad product then they’d have to deal with returns (which cost them more money).
G) If I wrote reviews saying a bad product is good, then people would stop reading reviews, and thus stop supporting the site. Duh.
Sigh.
Well said Ray. I am sure 99.9% of your visitors know this, and it’s just a small minority who feel the need to complain. Speaking for those who admire and appreciate the effort you go to, just keep doing what you do – your site is fantastic resource.
For the complainers, there are numerous other sources of information people can find what they are looking for without having to rely on Ray – look on YouTube, google Epix reviews, find a supplier who will accept returns etc. That’s what I did, and I am more than happy with my Epix.
Nevertheless, Ray you wrote on 12th of July that you had basically collected all the data you needed at that moment. I am among those who do not understand why you had spent substantial times to data collection if you decided to avoid any depth review. At least you could have published your findings and the data set without capturing photos and sparing some free days to write a long tale about the watch.
Believe me it is so unusual from you to work on something and not to finish it. I do not remember any similar to you, but maybe I’m wrong.
As a whole you deserve pleased readers. And anyway good luck to the unpleased readers, too.
I meant “similar to this story from you”
While I love Ray just as much as the next guy its defiantly disappointing. Watch out Tis, you’re about to get a lot of ppl backing Ray saying “he’s busy. He’s already made his opinion” etc. There honestly really no excuse for not having a review doe this watch.
“sparing some free days to write a long tale about the watch.”
I’m always curious where people think I have free time. It’s actually kinda humorous. As if I have some vast amount of free time to work with. It’s 3AM now, and in four hours I’ll wake-up and head to the airport and fly from Paris back to North America to the ANT+ Symposium. It’s there that I’ll speak and basically beg in private for all the features people here and/or on the forums complain about, directly to the people responsible for them. Sure, I could spend that free time alone in my hotel room writing an Epix review. Or, I could could spend it trying to sucker some company to implement something someone has asked about. Either way, when I’m done doing that (which will start around 6AM each day), I’ll finish around 10-11PM and head back to the room and try and catch up on hundreds of e-mails/comments per day.
In the unlikely event I’m not doing that, then I’m faced with the below list of backlogged reviews from the past three months:
– Edge 20/25
– Forerunner 20/25
– Varia Radar
– Edge 520
– Epix
– Tacx NEO
– Tacx Genius Smart/etc trainers
– Wahoo SNAP
– Hero4 Session
– Wearable Gimbal
– Garmin HRM-TRI/SWIM
– Scale Shootout: WS-50 & Fitbit Aria
– Withings Pop & Regular
– Withings Aura
– Verve Infocrank
– Apple Watch with OS2
– VIRB X/XE
Then there’s upcoming reviews for nearly out I’m working on:
– BSX 2.0
– Wahoo ELEMNT
– TomTom Spark
– Polar M450
Then there’s ones that people or companies hold out hope for:
– Timex GPS+
– Polar V650
– Sony Action cams
– v.360 Action cams
– Boxes upon boxes of random things companies have sent that don’t have a prayer of getting a review considering everything else in this list.
Realistically, there probably won’t likely be a review on those.
And then there’s still Interbike/Eurobike posts I’ve got leftover for the last few weeks:
– Barfly New Mounts
– K-Edge New Mounts
– Solos HUD System
– LEO
– Random other stuff
– Di2 Automated & Wireless Shifting Update
– Some other unannounced power meter stuff
Then there’s things that have long been scheduled for the next few weeks:
– Annual Power Meter Buyers Guide
– Annual Trainer Buyers Guide
– Fall/Winter 2015 Gadget Recommendations guide
– 2015 Trainer Apps guide
Less we not forgot these weekly posts too:
– Week in Review (because people get upset when I don’t do that)
– 5 Random Things (because far more people read those than you might think)
And last but not least, we’ve got all the unannounced products/stuffs over the next few weeks:
– Product X
– Product Y
– Product Z
(plus more)
Time-wise, excluding writing about all that, answering e-mails, comments and scheduling stuff. There exists the somewhat annoying requirement to actually workout and train (so I can collect data). Not to mention actually work my day job (which consists of travelling every other week that I’m not travelling for the blog). And last but not least, perhaps even spend a few mins with The Girl.
So no, I haven’t had time to finish writing up the Epix review, despite having more data on Epix than any other deice I’ve ever tested. Ultimately, it’ll likely be my longest review ever (in terms of time spent, words written, photographs taken, and tests data sample). And yet, but any objective web measure I have here, it’ll be the least viewed, least mattered review.
Maybe my wording was misleading, because I wished to say that why you did not publish the data set “without spending substantial additional energy”. I never had the slightest intention to make a judgement about your life, your time management.
But if we are at that point, you spent really pretty much time with writing about why you did not publish more as regards Epix.
Hi Julian. Can you say where you bought your Epix?
Sure – I’m in the UK its from Cotswold Outdoor who have (or at least used to have) a 21-day no quibble money back guarantee, as well as 10% through various memberships e.g. YHA, BMC etc.
The longer I have the watch the more I like it. For me, as a trail runner who explores new runs a lot, it’s a great watch. But I recognise it is not for everyone.
I think it’s a great watch. But i’m disappointed in the accuracy. Julian, you don’t recognize this poorer accuracy?
link to fellrnr.com
With the outside antenna, with Glonass & Waas you should expect that the Epix would be as good as the V800 for example.
And holy balls, I realized I forgot an entire section of posts I still have yet to write up:
– Wind Tunnel Gadget Testing (two weeks ago)
– Quarq HQ Behind the Scenes (four months ago)
– MapMyFitness HQ Behind the Scenes (four months ago)
– Strava HQ Behind the Scenes (four months ago)
As for why I haven’t posted a review yet, I’m pretty sure I covered that numerous times in the comments. But essentially I see more demand for other products, and when I have to choose between writing up an Epix review or spending time writing up a post on a new device coming out tomorrow (or X date in the future), I usually spend that time writing up on the new device. A post on a device like the Edge 520 gets 1,000x more interest than one on the Epix. As much as I’d like to write about everything, I lack said time.
As for the Epix data, a good chunk of it has been posted for months, though I’m woefully behing on filling in the public table for data from the last few months (I have the data, just haven’t updated the table database).
Not really, I didn’t buy the watch expecting it to be 100% perfect. After all if you run say 40+ miles a week I think errors will even themselves out. I don’t understand the obsession with having 100% accurate traces, it’s time training that makes the difference not the accuracy of the watch.
Having said that I ran the Leadville 100 and the watch was spot on – 100 miles at the finish. So no complaints from me.
Thank you for answering Julian.
I’m a roadracer. Aggreed: accuracy is less important in training. But i do a lot of races 10k to 21k and always control the pace in km-splits. And thats the reason I want less as possible deviation.
Ray I just think that you’re in an impossible situation where the watch itself is a lemon but writing a review either puts your credibility/integrity with your readers at risk or blows up your relationship with Garmin.
The reviews have been tremendously insightful keep up the good work really appreciate your time. PS I just bought an epiX. hoping that they come out with something with a higher density screen in the next go round I’ll probably trade mine in for that they do…. old eyes beingwhat they are
Dear Ray,
I want to thank you for this amazing website of yours. As someone who is very well versed in phones, tablets and computers and equally naive in everything fitness related, I was so grateful to find this huge database. I have timed myself and have spent over 7 hours total reading through your site. Thank you so much for all the hard work you have put in and your kindness in sharing this chunk of knowledge that is going to exist far longer than any of us. I am seriously lusting over a Fenix 3 right now and am on the verge of buying it as soon as I figure some financial stuff out. I am an avid hiker and cyclist. And my hope is to get into running as well.
Also – haters gonna hate. Keep up the generous work!
Regards,
Viral
I’m testing the Epix a few weeks now and i’m in doubt if a want it or not. I compare with the FR920XT i own.
GPS accuracy seems to be poor. With Waas & Glonass on I stil have a lot of curves plotted on the map that i didn’t make. The FT920 seems to be much more precise to show the correct path & curves i made. But total distance is always a little low on the FR920 Do you recognize this Ray? In different officially measured 10k races the FR920 dit not reach the 10.000mtrs.
I love the huge digits when a lap-split-time appears on the Epix. Is there any other watch that has the same size of digits fot the split-screen? Running without glasses (+1.5 needed for reading, i’m getting old …) makes large digits important for me.
I was very much getting used to the WIFI function. So much i miss it a lot on the epix …
Temperature does not match other divices (Epix give some degrees more) but isn’t important.
Question: is anywhere an explanation why in settings you have to choose the wrist it’s on?
Question: is anywhere an explanation why in settings you have to choose the wrist it’s on?
Step tracking and using the accelerometer to track speed and distance when there’s no GPS use that information.
As for your distance measurement, you’d really want to look at the track. Getting a measured course to be ‘short’ on a GPS watch tends to be rather hard, unless the watch completely cut a vast corner.
In 99.9999% of cases, GPS watches will overestimate distance on certified courses – especially if in a larger races where you don’t have an optimal line (see this: link to dcrainmaker.com).
If you look at your GPS track and then don’t see any corners cut (i.e. buildings with a track across them slicing off a chunk of the course), then more than likely the course was short. It happens far more often than you’d think, even on certified courses. Usually the result of someone incorrectly placing a cone or turn marker early that morning and nobody realizing it. I’d say on average I’ll see it about 1 race every 5-10 races – especially true on out & back races where the turnaround placement is critical.
Thank you Ray for your reaction.
Cutting corners: yes thats what seems to happen more often with the Epix then in others watches. For example see the inclosed picture. No high buildings or trees around.
I do own a JonesCounter myself so i made some “officially measured tracks” in the neighbourhood. The FR920 is most of the time pretty close to the expected distance. Using the epix there seems to be more deviation.
Also it seems when i do run in several laps the epix does have more deviation in the laps.
I will do some more testing with both watches on.
Q:
What is the easiest way to get an overlay mapview with the results-maps of both watches (in different colours) ?
This site seems to confirm my suspicion. The epix is high-end in functionality , but not in accuracy …
link to fellrnr.com
While I appreciate FellRNR’s attention to detail there, the challenge I have with his accuracy tests is that they are only over a very short section repeated over and over again. Most of us don’t run the same 400m or so a million times over. We run a variety of terrain and conditions.
Additionally, he then extrapolates out the margin of error on that ~400m or so segment and then assumes it would apply to a 20mi segment. Years of comparisons has shown that’s rarely the case.
Ultimately though, you’ve gotta use it in the conditions you plan to use it in to see if it performs well. I’ve got tracks where Epix performs great, and tracks where it doesn’t. And on those same tracks where it doesn’t the Ambit3 & V800 struggled just as much. Just depends on where you are.
Assuming that you’re not using Smart Recording…
Check out MyGPSFiles – which is what I typically use to compare tracks (but not length, just the track).
Thanx
I do compare tracks. When the track is accurate, the distance will be also ;-)
I will check your GPSfyles.
I still haven’t found the trick how plot several trainings/tracks into one map :-(
Why isn’t something like Strava comparing for us? There are a lot of races where very much people run the same course, with different devices. Enough data to make a statistic fair compare.
Ray: My {unsolicited} advice: Live more, review less. That’s intended as encouragement, not criticism. Pax.
Ray I just think that you’re in an impossible situation where the watch itself is a lemon but writing a review either puts your credibility/integrity with your readers at risk or blows up your relationship with Garmin.
Not impossible at all, I’d say about 75% of the review is written now (I’ve been chugging away at it the last week), with all of the conclusions/summary/things I don’t like sections done. It’s really just the generic sections (cycling/running/smartphone features) that I’ve got to write. Plus gathering leftover photos.
I’ve got no concerns with my relationship with Garmin. It’s super simple: When they produce good products they get rewarded for that, and when they put out sub-par products they get nailed for it. Just like any other company. There’s plenty of examples of reviews of mine on both sides of that fence.
And, to be clear – I don’t think the Epix is a bad watch. I just think it’s an awkward watch in terms of features vs price vs some functions (i.e. smartphone integration), and how it compares to other phone based apps that do a better job at certain things for 1/600th the price. I’d say it was a prematurely released watch, though most of that has long been taken care of.
+1
Just curious, is the epix review still in the works? I’ve already bought one, been using it since day one and have had a love hate relationship with it, but I’ve been dying to read your thoughts on it, as well as recommendations and how you use it.
I use this watch for some short time. I used it for serveral runs, for bike rides for open water and indoor swimming sessions.
What can I say, as it looks for now this is _the best sport watch ever created till now_.
Before this I used Fenix 2. All together I guess it is my 6th GPS enabled sport watch.
Pros in comparison to fenix:
* it is more convinient on the hand for running and swiming than Fenix 2 (due to a rectangular form factor I guess),
* The rectangular form is more convinient for 4 fields on the screen than a round fenix shape. It allows usable 5 or 6 field screens as well (with the help of ConnectIQ, I used a “running one screen” field).
* Usable color maps – is a very good add on.
* 8 GB of memory
Yes, and I like their military look as well :-)
If you need one more vote to prioritise the Epix in-depth review in your list – you have mine :-)
PS. Thanks for the extensive and thoughtful reviews you do on your blog. It is a great and valuable work!
Michael
Thanks for the great reviews Ray, and for providing the discussion forum. I am very bought into the (theoretical) functionality of the Epix, and keen to upgrade from my Fenix 2. However, I have been put off some by the multiple reviews and comments that suggest to me that the Epix just is not stable enough to truly count on it. Is there a sense for if/when Garmin will get on top of the glitches and we can count on the Epix for reliability? When I sense that from the reviews, I am buying!
Thanks, Steve
Hi Steve
As far as i undestand the review here is based on the original epix version before the major updates.
Garmin as usual get to the market products before the software is ready and then issues the important software fixes.
I guess Ray used 2.2 version or earlier.
I use now 2.93 version and it seams that the stability problems are solved. The watch is far more reluable than the latest version of fenix 2.
I use it heavily and the only stability issues i see in the watch are related to color maps and turn by turn navigation. Ok, the other watches out there just don’t have this functionality at all.
So still, if we are talking about the last software version in my opinion epix looks as the best sport watch ever made.
Michael
Another thing to consider with th Epix – future proofing.
The new version of IQ connect (due for release Q1 next year if I’m not mistaken) will strain the processing and memory on most of the new units (incl. the 920XT and Fenix3). Some backward compatibility is to be expected, but I won’t hold my breath that everything will be just peachy.
The Epix, being a bit beefier on that front and having more available memory MAY give you a bit more time before absolutely requiring an update to make use of the apps based on the newer version of CIQ.
Maybe Ray could comment when he finally has time to get the review out.
Hi Ray,
any thoughts about, why the water resistance isn’t printed on the label/ on the backside of the epix? Normally every garmin outdoor product has a “50 meters” or “5 arm” on its backside. Strange for me.
The 5 atm is only written on the box the epix is coming with. Perhaps you can ask garmin?
Regards
Volker
I would second the comments made by happy Epix owners who have owned the Epix from its release. I use all tracking methods for almost all sports and including activity tracking occasionally. The on the wrist maps are also helpful when off trail or finding a new trail but again I mainly use as a sports improvement tracking applications. After the initial release problems, I have had NO PROBLEMS except for an occasional slow map change when changing scale on hikes or hunting trips at too fast a rate.
I find it very easy to go from sport to sport especially those using different sensors and heart rate straps. It is by far the best Garmin device of the Garmin sports set of the five I have owned previously plus I like the additional help in the backcountry. I cannot vouch or disavow problems with smartphone integration as it is a time, approximately six to fifteen hours a week I am not connected.
Thanks Garmin another great product.
Glad to see lots of positive comments here now, and I fully agree with them. As I somewhat perplexed/annoyed initial owner of an Epix, I would agree that it is the best sports watch ever made, at least for trail runners like myself.
I have owned or used a Garmin Forerunner 10, 110, and 220, a Garmin 310XT, the Garmin Fenix 3 and now this. I wear the Epix all the time and would not change it for anything else.
Thank you Michael and others for the reassurance that the Epix with updated software is stable and that you guys like it so much. I am a triathlete whose work takes me to some pretty remote locations (think rural Indonesia, remote pacific islands, Philippines) so the concept of a all around sports watch with great navigation is perfect for me. As soon as my wife lets me, it’s mine ;-)
Just as a quick FYI to anyone that’s made up their mind for an Epix, and is looking for a deal on it, you can now pick it up as a Cyber Monday deal for $110 & $120 off (depending on model). Linkage here: link to clevertraining.com
Cheers.
Ray, the cheeky answer to that is “of course we haven’t made up our minds yet as you have yet to publish your review” ;-)
Of course.
Epix now it’s the best heart rate monitor from Garmin? Better than Fenix 3 and 920XT?
Epix in navigation.
As I said before Epix is an excellent triathlon watch from Garmin with some extra features.
On last friday I used it first time as my only navigation source. I did a MTB century ride in the desert. It was 162 km with 2150 accent on a challenging hard surface. It took me 10 hours to complete it.
In comparison to my Fenix 1 and Fenix2 I previousely used for such adventures – it is excellent!
1. I felt no delays on displaying the course
2. The color map with all the fireroads available and the topo things is a great help.
3. F1 and F2 struggled with such long courses freezing some times and moving the course line really slow – here no such a problem
4. Battery life: I changed the screens quite a lot, used a map screen let say at least 20% of the time, first hour of the ride was in the darkness so I used backlight. It ate only around 50% of the battery after 10 hours of heavy usage – that is great for me. F2 with such a usage on a similar track took 80% of the battery.
5. The bug feature – is very useful – shows a direction as a green/red dot on every screen during the activity
6. The autoclimb feature is also handy – if the watch detects a climb, it switches automatically to a specially chosen screen which is made for climbing.
What I did not like about the watch –
1. I would like to have a screen brighter, some times it is difficult to see the numbers. I did not have such an issue with F2, F1 and other wathes I had
2. When an off-course allert shows up it takes a half of the screen hiding an important information. And it is there until I am back to orinally planned course. As the race was in the desert, it is not convinient as the water streams in the desert change the line every year a little bit so you are not always on the planned course.
So bottom line – it was one more proof for me that I made a correct decision chosing Epix and not Fenix 3 when upgrading my Fenix2.
Hi everyone
My simple question is:
If i spent 420€ (here in Spain, Europe) i would have the best GPS in my hand so…
What of all of GPS’s i should choose to use live tracking strava mode (no like 520 edge does… Or am i confuse and 520 can do that……..) if i have strava premium in my account?
Maybe the best choice is buy a quad lock for my iPhone 6 and put it in by bike.
I just ride in bike, no more.
Any GPS give me all options like my phone do…
Do not deserve i spent a lot of money in one piece of plastic…
Peace
Current epix bugs (since month- all reported to the fw team – nothing happened to solve them yet):
If you send a own category of pois to the epix, the pois are only shown with a “white ball” pic on the map and the category isn’t added to the menu for searching (seems that the epix isn´t compatible with the poi loader).
If you add waypoints to the epix, not all waypoints are shown on the map, sometimes yes, sometimes no, I can’t recognize a system…( only 80 wps are added to my epix).
Create course did not work for me. If I create a course with wp a, b, c, d, my epix only takes wp a and d; b and c are not used for calculating the course.
His compass and guide are only showing to the destination and not to the next wp/turn, as they should.
Off course alert seems not to work (correctly).
Tracks are drawn in light blue, no matter if another color is chosen.
Route new calculation, if you leave or must leave a calculated route, seems not to work correctly if you are walking on foot.
Created wps are only shown with a “blue flag”, you are not able to choose another symbol/ a custom symbol.
If I create a wp on a map with dem ( in my case the topo Germany v7 ), there is always an altitude of 12607 meters saved for the wp altitude – but the wp should take the correct altitude from the map ( in basecamp it is working correctly with this map).
Spell search is only working for cities an one or two other categories; for all the other categories it isn´t working at all (since month).
A lot of poi pics looks very horrible on the epix map screen, you can´t even recognize on what kind of poi you are looking at.
Sound/vibration in case of a turn on a calculated route on a routable map isn’t working correctly if you are walking on foot. In earlier fw versions ( 1 monthe there hasn`t been a fw update.
My opinion:
the epix was an experiment for garmin and it seems, that it went for some reasons wrong for them and now they have declared the epix as a “lame duck”.
I don´t thing, that we will see an epix 2, some of the epix features will move to a fenix 4.
I wish, I am wrong and everything went fine… Some of the few active epix users in the garmin.com forum have already left the epix, because they are frustrated about the stoppage (more than 6 weeks) in fw updates/bugfixes…
Speculation: maybe Ray knows since weeks, that garmin has sorted out the epix and so he did not spend much energie to write a deep review of the epix? So he must not explain it to users, who might have bought an epix because of his review. But this is only a speculation, but it make sense for me.
Sigh…ok.
(And for the 37th time, I haven’t written an Epix review.)
Just got a disappointing email from Garmin support regarding V2 running dynamics and the epix:
Dear Gordon Warren,
Thank you for contacting Garmin International.
I am sorry but unfortunately the epix does not have the running dynamics feature and there is no way to add this feature to the device.
With Best Regards,
Robert 8994778
Customer Care – Outdoor Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200
800-800-1020
913-440-8280 (Fax) Att: Robert 8994778
I haven’t written that you have written an epix review. I have written, maybe why you have not written an review…
Perhaps you can make a clear announcement, if we will see really you releasing an epix review. After such a long time, I really not believe you, that is just a matter of little time etc…
But hey, it’s just my opinion- nothing to be worried about.
it would be fair to say that the epix is very like the fenix 3 with so so navigation features.
it is not a polished watch. check youtube for some reviews.
I own an epix since early may and I know a lot about it (good things and unfortunately a lot of bad things) and I have read a lot of reviews.
At the beginning, I was waiting excited for Rays upcoming review, now I am only astonished, why it isn´t there- this is the only reason why I am still asking after (content interests me absolutely not anymore).
Epix DOES have running dynamics already. So I am not sure this Robert knows what he is talking about.
It looks like I have a different Epix than you.
I upgraded my Fenix 2 to Epix almost two months ago.
My watch has significantly less bugs than prevoius Garmin watches I had (Forerunners and Fenix1 and 2). According to Fenix 3 forum – all the extra bugs Epix has related to the mapping and routing, the features other watches just don’t have. From the other hand there are still critical (for me) bugs in Fenix3 which are fixed in Epix already.
Overall my epix works fine, I use it everyday for different kinds of activitites (running indoor/outdoor, swimming pool/openwater, cycling). I used it as a navigation device as well and it is nice to have maps on the wrist available anytime, even if the automatic routing is far from perfect and the waypoints symbols are not displayed!
Looking on your (Volker) reviews and DCrainmakers words – I have only one explanation. My epix is just different.
Yes, your epix must be different. I have contact with some epix users which can largely confirm my reported mistake And I got also feedback from the fw team (weeks ago), which confirm most of the reported issues…
Hi Volker,
the bugs that you have reported (regarding the navigatin), at least part of them exist in my watch as well. I did succed to use a autoroutable navigation several times, but it was somehow challenging mostly because of a small screen.
I just say that it is absolutely not critical for the watch, still the mapping/routing are more than just usable. It worse then in the garmin handheld but better than in any other watch.
But from saying that “color map routable navigatin have still many bugs but usable (I agree with that)” to say that the “watch is full of bugs” is a long distance.
If you look at the shared functionality between Epix and say Fenix3 (which is 80%) or 920XT you will see that Epix has the same or smaller number of bugs, according to the forums at least.
And it is __significantly__ less buggy than previous generation Garmin outdoor watches.
It is impossible to make such a complex device from HW and SW perspective like epix with no bugs. So still, all the bugs you reported relate to the functionality that the other watches just do not have.
What existing bugs in the Epix are important to me (with very exessive usage of the watch):
– Touch screen unintentional unlock
– I just cannot remember anything else wthin importance level more than “nice to have”
Imporoved routable navigation, change the course color, the Waipoints symbols which are not displayed properly are just nice-to-haves. Even if Garmin fixes all of this, still you cannot use these features heavily, just because the screen is two small.
Yesterday I checked another thing about the watch – Triathlon swiming suit slips out without problem with Epix on a hand (just like 920, I would say a bit easier than Fenix2 I previousely had)
I am pretty sure Robert was referring to the “new” running dynamics available (at least in beta) that were recently made available to the fenix 3 and FR920XT watches. Even Garmin’s site only lists the fenix 3, Forerunner 920XT, and Forerunner 630 as devices that will display all running dynamics… while the epix is lumped in with the fenix 2 and Foreunner 620…
link to support.garmin.com{82c4a520-9788-11e5-4cfe-000000000000}
I do a lot of hiking and hunting and was wondering if you recommend the Epix over the Ambit 3 and if so for what reason?
Have you heard any feedback on issues with the Epix? Does the touch screen create any problems?
Do you want onboard maps? Epix has them, Ambit doesn’t. They are not really in the same class; from what I know about the Ambit (only what I’ve read) Fenix 3 is more the Garmin Ambit than the Epix is.
The touch screen can be locked, and for the most part you can run it with the buttons, so you can avoid problems if you want. People have reported having trouble when it gets wet, but I haven’t had any with mine on the rare occasions when it got wet.
Thanks Paul,
Yes it will get wet, I don’t really need the onboard maps I just need it more for the trackback feature without having to carry a handheld unit.
Thanks Paul,
Yes it will get wet, I don’t really need the onboard maps I just need it more for the trackback feature without having to carry a handheld unit.
Does either store way points?
Does anyone know of a way to send raw GPX files from an iPhone to a Fenix or Epix (I assume it is the same process). I don’t want to have use my laptop to do it, and it would be great if there was a way, even if it is hack. I thought I got close by uploading a GPX to Garmin Connect on my phone (with the native browser and Dropbox), but the GPX file would not load to Garmin Connect as it hadn’t been via GPSies..
I’ve answered my own question. In case it helps anyone, you’ll need the Dropbox and Garmin Connect apps on your iPhone. The way to do it is
All on the phone’s browser
1) Save the GPX file from whatever website it is on to Dropbox.
2) Go to the GPSies website
3) Convert the GPX using the website GPSies to a GPX Track, and save back to Dropbox.
4) Log in to the Garmin Connect website
5) Open this link link to connect.garmin.com and upload the file in (3) to Garmin Connect
6) Save the course in Garmin Connect (I needed to keep hitting save a few times on different, progressive pages)
Then, using the Garmin Connect app send the course to your phone. This will work for the Fenix, too.
Ray, I know you havent written a review on this for several reasons but have you heard anything about Garmin stopping support for this device? I know it was released only 6-7 months ago but it seems to be taking a backseat.
It’s probably important to differentiate between “support” and “new updates”. Support is when Garmin stops answering the phone on a given device if you have problems. That’s obviously many years away.
Then you have semi-important updates for compatibility for a device. For example, time-zone updates, GPS chipset updates, etc… These tend to continue for years after a device is released. I don’t see any reason why that’d be different here.
Next there’s bug-fix type updates. This can be addressing a totally new/unexpected bug, an existing bug, or just a bug they fixed somewhere else and decided to port that to the Epix. This is most common with the Fenix3/Epix/FR920XT, since they share so much code. Why we haven’t seen the Epix get some of the various bug-fixes delivered to the Fenix3 over the last few months, I’m not sure.
The final piece is when Garmin stops add new features/functions to a device. For example, whether or not they’d add in some of the recent Fenix3 changes to the Epix. That piece I don’t know, I haven’t discussed it with them.
That said, next week is CES, so I’ll have some time with the folks there to pick their brains and will report back. And of course, the reason companies go to CES is for new products (software or hardware).
Unless it is a bug in Garmin Express, which is not unlikely, I just saw version 6.6 of the Epix Firmware was available…
Not at all….
I don’t have any new update available for me. And I’ve talk with a Garmin representative this morning and they don’t have any date for a future fix yet.
But he told me that the team are working to resolve many problems that has been reported (many that I have discuss with them). They just don’t have any release plan (that’s what i’ve been told) but it doesn’t make sense for me… I assume that it will be maybe in many weeks again…
Stephane
Yeah, I just plugged my Epix in and Express says it’s up to date with the current 3.1. Nothing on the forums at the moment, either.
Alas I think it was a Garmin bug – I saw it in express and I can see the update in the Express log files but it seems to have disappeared and not installed on the phone. I did think it was too good to be true!
Ray if you do pass the Garmin folks and have any info on if Garmin plan to keep the Epix and Fenix 3 firmware vaguely in sync it would be appreciated!
The update 6.6 was for the HRM Strap software, and it needed to be paired with your epix to be updated. If you look at the sensor information you can see the software version for your paired HRM strap.
The epix software version 3.10 is still the latest. This will have to be updated in order to show the latest running dynamics.
Hi guys
I hace just bought an epix
I have tried to load my IQ apps but the epix does not load them and restarts by it self
Does anyone how to fix this issue? I have updated gc gexpress
Does it work if you remove the IQ apps?
Yes it works fine only I can not use any apps on the data fields as the watch restarts by itself
There’s your answer, then. Put them on one at a time, and identify which ones cause the problem, and don’t use those. If the answer is “none of them work”, find some different ones. The ones written by Garmin itself should probably be OK (but no guarantees). If Garmin open sourced its own apps things would probably be much farther along with ConnectIQ, but they haven’t so far as I know.
I’ve just started experimenting with ConnectIQ apps, since IQ has been out for a year and the Epix for 6 months. The one watch face I tried didn’t cause problems with the Epix but didn’t work right, the AccuWeather widget works but can only be used with GPS and Bluetooth on, so I’ll probably never actually use it, and the GPS app (simply shows coordinates) I haven’t tried yet since it’s an app (should probably be a widget).
just copy a simple map from some openstreet map garmin img, and the map is unplocked and working well on myu garmin dakota 20 but Epix said “cant unlock the map” Hm. how we can download a new map on Epix? Seem to not be so easy
Is anyone having a problem with the Epix recording distance and when you save just the time it cycles and you need to reset?
I was a believer with the simple processes of the Epix, but now with maps locking up and this, I’m a little on the negative side.
Hi Ray,
any news about an ubcoming fw update for the epix? Seems to be, that garmin put the epix on the siding.
regards
Volker
“upcoming ” of course…
I enjoy your sturdiness. Indeed.
I bought the Epix when it was first released and, except for the known bugs, it worked fine but over time the maps started lagging and every FW update just made it worse. It got to the point where I didn’t bother anymore with the maps as just zooming or scrolling took minutes for the device to update the screen. This was also the case when just looking at a map in my training history. I then contacted Garmin support and got the following reply:
Perform a Master Reset:
Ensure watch is powered off
Press and hold Back/Lap
Power on device while continuing to hold Back/Lap
Release Back/Lap button once “Clear user data?” message appears
Select “Yes”
The reset is successful if the device finishes powering up and goes to the setup wizard. Try the steps again if the setup wizard does not appear. Following the reset, place the device outside with a clear view of the sky for a minimum of 20 minutes to acquire satellite data.
Maybe this is common knowledge but I thought I’d share this piece of information anyway as it worked perfectly for me. I had previously tried to do factory reset, using less detail in maps etc but never heard of a Master Reset before.
Thanks, it already is acting a lot better. Wonder why Garmin, after three customer service emails to me, did not relay this information along sooner? Hope their staff is busy debugging for the next update.
Have really enjoyed the watch and hope this clears up the last three weeks of bugs. It will get a work out with the dog and me in the backcountry.
Thanks again!
Full reset still did not work. Any other ideas or am I going to join the Epix lemon group?
I am using garmin topo germany V7, garmin cn nt germany/austria/swiss, garmin birdseye select alps and osm openmtbmap germany/alps without any problems on my epix. What maps are you using? That is one of the few features, which are running properly on my epix.
Have you enabled just one map at the same time?
This full reset is not working for me.
Previous factory reset left the same “updated” FW and left me without sleep monitoring and Connect IQ.
Happy to try any reset to get this watch back to it’s full power. I only have minimal maps as I thought that was sucking out power
I’ll say it again, the lack of a GPS reception page (like there used to be on the foretrex of which I bought over 20 over the years as gifts it was so good) makes this watch pretty useless in real navigation scenarios (how do you know accuracy? Are you locked on? are you at 3 sattelires or 7 ?
I have not downloaded any other maps than the Topo USA that came w/the Epix. This is how simple or busy I’ve been to keep it simple, I have not ever done anything additional with maps other than what the Epix gives me. Maybe a couple track backs etc., but really haven’t been able to utilize anything else.
When I did the total reset, it re-acquired GPS but now it is not showing anything dealing with the GPS whether it be distance or average speed etc. It will show me a pace though while I’m running but not average pace.
Thanks for trying to bring me along on this.
On top of the initial bugs and without my ability to have experience with the mapping bugs you are encountering, GARMIN is having me exchange my watch. Again it has to due with my Epix showing that it has acquired satellites but then it will not record any data dealing with distance, ave. distance etc. Garmin had me do the 2nd version of the full reset without success. This watch was one of the initial watches sold thru Clever Training.
Asking Garmin whether “in your honest opinion” will this be the watch I want with all the previous problems. All Garmin is saying is that “we are constantly making improvements through various methods, I would recomend exchanging you Epix at this time.”
Hi
Ray did you speak wiht garmin about epix firmware update? As Garmin doesn’t answer anithing about it, you are the only one that can help to understand… :)
Thanks
Regards
Isaac
Yes. Sorry, was waiting for the follow-up question to be answered, but in the meantime…
The question was around Epix getting an update to equal the recent Fenix3 updates with new features like LT testing, Gen2 running dynamics, golf, SUP, etc…
“Due to resources and royalty expenses of the new features in FR920/F3, we are not planning on updating Epix [with the above new features]. Additionally, our Garmin Connect user data shows that there are more people wanting to use F3/FR920 for golf, SUP, rowing and advanced running dynamics than the Epix.
That said, we are continuing to support Epix and release periodic updated and bug fixes to existing functionality. Epix customers still have a significant benefit over Fenix and FR920 users when it comes to cartography support. The mapping capabilities of Epix is something that Fenix and FR920 will never be able to support because of hardware limitations, and is a huge differentiator for Epix.”
Note, my follow-up question was around getting a more specific timeframe for the next Epix update that would include bug fixes (and whatever else ends up being in there). They were working to get a more specific date as of yesterday. Will post back once I have one.
Thats very sad. I wont buy F3 or FR920xt only for metrics. Epix is far superior for running on the trail, but i sometimes wanted to use hrm-run for new metrics. Now i simply wont buy hrmrun (using scoshe rythm+ for workouts now) ;P
I hope they remove all remaining bugs.
Garmin, of course there are more f3 users, wtf should somebody buy this buggy lame duck called epix at the moment?
The five stages of epix:
Denial:
It’s only one firmware update behind the Forerunner and Fenix lines, I bet Garmin is working on it now, it will probably be released any minute now, I’ll just keep checking the Garmin WebUpdater for an update… every hour… better keep checking Garmin Connect too… you know… just in case…
Anger:
AAARRRRRRGH! What do you mean Fenix 3 got ANOTHER update? Advanced running dynamics? #@#@$#@#$#@$#@@!!! AT LEAST FIX THE epix BUGS!!!! Can’t the Outdoor Group work with the Sports Group?
Bargaining:
Please if you update the epix I’ll buy 10 HRM straps and the varia system. What do you want from me? I’ll do anything you want; just please please please update my watch’s software.
Depression:
I wasted so much time checking Garmin connect, I didn’t have time to workout, gained back the 20 lbs I lost, now my clothes don’t fit, my running buddies stopped calling, and I cry all the time… I can’t even look at my epix… Which is now kept safe at the bottom of the now empty bucket of chicken…
Acceptance:
Damn it Garmin I’m pissed; but Polar and Suunto just don’t have anything as comprehensive as the Fenix 3… hmmm…. Titanium you say? With a sapphire crystal AND advanced running dynamics? I wonder if they could throw in some downloadable mapping and extra memory…
haha – good post.
IT would be safe for someone with Ray’s influence to post a DO NOT BUY on this watch.
btw how often did you use navigation?
I love my fenix 3 – maps would be great on hikes.
Funny indeed.
I have been overwhelmingly clear in my guidance that this isn’t the watch for me.
At the same time, while it’s not receiving a bunch of new/big features, there will be some subset of the population (including some readers here already), who are happy with the watch as-is. So I think a flat do-not-buy is a bit strong, but just being aware of lack of new major features is notable. And again to be clear they are committing to some form of bug updates.
This would be someone like me…. I love the watch and the functions for hiking/maps ect. I don’t give a shit about running and from the beginning I was suspicious towards combining the hiking/maps/navigation capabilities with a running/multisports watch. For hiking and navigation the watch is outstanding. I have never had issues except one freeze last year in FW 2.10 or something. Actually I don’t understand all the whining here…. it’s like buying a pickup truck (you should have known that’s what you get) and then get angry when all the audi’s and bmw’s are passing you on the highway….
I would say for now Rays comment would be me as a satisfied customer, BUT. If you read my last post Garmin is asking me to return my Epix. Also I have NOT tried extensive navigation features which would be in the future. HOPEFULLY they have the bugs worked out by then or my warranty will be put to use again.
I drive a Tahoe and a great foreign made car which could be a Garmin too. But the fact that my Tahoe/Epox shut down after 8 months still does not make me happy especially with the additional bugs that people and I have experienced, now and prior to 2.10. As I say a new warranty on a returned product is great but this is a hassle. Vet it before you let us all be your test drivers.
Thanks.
I have used my epix watch extensively for my triathlon training regimen. Combined with functionality of Garmin Connect it is all I have needed since upgrading from my ForeRunner 910xt. As far as navigation goes, my wife and I took a holiday to Europe last summer so I bought and loaded the Europe and North America maps from Garmin. It was great to have that resource available on my wrist for the trip. We drove across Italy from Florence to Rome, not huge but for first timers the wrist based maps were great.
I switched from soft cushy shoes to minimalist footwear, part of my transition strategy involved analyzing my running technique using the running dynamics. The result: 60 lbs. weight loss, 2 marathons and 2 half marathons plus all the training runs with no injuries from changing footwear…
I am firmly in the camp of sports user vs. bushwhacking, although as an avid hunter I have used the maps/gps and the compass while pushing bush.
I am disappointed that the direction I believed the epix was going turned out to be unsustainable for Garmin. I have learned a lesson about being an early adopter…
ouch.
I think your analogy might not be entirely accurate: after all the watch was called epix not mediocre-ix!
If I bought a Ford SVT Lightning, I would be challenging the audi’s and bmw’s; I would not take it off-roading though, nor would I expect them to add an off-roading package… but I would expect them to, at least in the first 6 months, continue to offer racing upgrades to augment the existing platform…
Exactly Warren same deal I had hoped for with the upgrade after being a marathoner with Garmin products that worked great. I just wanted to have the navigation on my wrist for biking this time on trips to Europe that I was only able to use track back on. Hoping my experience will change with a new Epix and my adventure of early adoption and the success of the Epix will come to fruition.
So you are saying that some of us add a lot of fitness training of all sorts that we track from downhill skiing, X-C skiing, running indoor and out, biking indoor and out, that we should just accept Epix for hiking and navigation even though that doesn’t work either. The watch was sold with everything in mind, give me what was advertised and I’ll quit asking, “whinning” or what I bought that was advertised.
Sorry Gordon Warren got your name wrong and this message should have gone the direction of Thomas:
So you are saying that some of us add a lot of fitness training of all sorts that we track from downhill skiing, X-C skiing, running indoor and out, biking indoor and out, that we should just accept Epix for hiking and navigation even though that doesn’t work either. The watch was sold with everything in mind, give me what was advertised and I’ll quit asking, “whinning” or what I bought that was advertised.
I agree with you johnwo!
By the way everyday I fill out a support request asking about a potential update, every 2 days or so I get a response saying basically that there are no plans to add this feature to epix, but that if I have any suggestions to fill out their product suggestion form:
My suggestion is always the same that they add the advanced running dynamics to the epix.
I think that epix users as a group should ask for the feature updates that we want. We can be a small group but vocal.
You’ll have me on board to push for the Epix after I get a new one. I’m still just a little cranked on the whole episode on this watch. Do to my my profession with high needs kids, I couldn’t access a phone so I worked with product support via email. Of course from 9 to 5 CST M-F is the only time you can access said support which present a difficult situation when your on call and busy trying to pay for said faulty watch. Most people who recreate with these devices may need another time to access support.
In this email exchange I was given to five different product support people. For the most part, there were variations, they were in tune with the system. It seemed as though messages filtered up to the person who could finally give the okay to replace it.
The replacement needed to be done over the phone and on Fridays even high needs kids wear out. I called Garmin and realized my going thru their phone menu that there is really no division that deals with the Epix. It is not on the outdoor, fitness, or even dog menu. When the first question to the guy was which division, he said it really had none. It “kind of falls between” different divisions. That in my mind means falls through the cracks. I finally reached my support in fitness which is a little scary with navigation issues. Of course when asked, none knew of any problems.
Eventually gave my CC#, and was told that a full warranty would be established for 12 more months. Upon receipt of the RMA order, the paperwork said the only warranty that I would have would be what was remaining on my orginal, four months. Last time I’m an early adopter. With the Epix being what it is I called back to only be given a verbal song and dance that we will support the Epix. Asked if they could write that down, they could not. Well to say the least that is BS with the issues I have ran into after the issues we have all discussed. Show me the warranty if you stand behind this product. My rant wil be complete after another letter to Garmin.
johnwyo, that sounds so frustrating. Good luck with your new epix. I’m not sure I would have the patience you have. My epix worked great from day one; my only complaint is that a cheaper watch released prior to mine now has more features because of an update. If my watch isn’t capable for a technical reason tell me, and I will get over it, after all the watch does what I bought it for, but if the reason is just cost, at least let me have the option of deciding whether or not I could support the update…
I’ll start to check it out Monday when I receive the “new” Epix. It may take me awhile on the run dynamics. After being that avid marathoner, I’ve paid the price of maybe not having running dynamics, but still like jogging dynamics.
But I am excited about getting back to using everything we discussed on the navigation options in combo with training. This watch still has the perfect combination and I look forward to seeing where we can go with it.
You seem to missing my point, my epix works great. All functions I care about works flawless. I dont care about advanced running stuff. And after all the watch was sold as part of the outdoor line and not the running line. Why complaint about functions in other watches when that was never planned for this watch. When you buy stuff its relevant to look at the functions offered at purchase moment, not what updates and future functions that might be added later on…
The point is Thomas, that navigation functions are not working well and that is what this watch, if you can read the information, promised. That you do not want to utilize what is promised in Garmin’s advertising is your deal and you shouldn’t have wasted your money on an Epix for just fitness. With a watch of this cost and with the overall transition you can have between outdoor and fitness, they should at least look at the additional dynamics. Especially for what they have put users thru for navigation, it would be a nice addition.
That I have had to send my watch in for other problems only adds to the situation. Call fitness they can help you with your next adventure and save you some money.
Thomas:
The initial offering of the watch touted advanced running dynamics and a host of other fitness capabilities for me it was never a case of either/or…
Another way to state my issue is this: Imagine that the features you do care about stop being updated, a mere 6 months after the watch is released. Further; it is a lack of communication that alerts you to the potential issue; next stability of apps and compatibility with Connect IQ issues bubble up, suddenly it appears as though no single group in the company will take responsibility for addressing any specific user’s concerns.
Where does that leave you as a loyal customer? Frustrated.
The final straw? Finding out that one of their main reasons for not updating has nothing to do with capability nor technology but royalty expenses!
A master class in how to destroy a brand new segment (wristworn mapping) you created and monopolise planet-wide in what is not a niche area (outdoors sports). Few manufacturers could execute such a disaster area so well.
Yeah it definitely seems to be a product designed with a built in identity crises. I bought the epix with a somewhat backwards idea apparently… I thought that the watch screen would be perfect for my training as my other Garmin watches had been, and that the small screen would be OK for occasionally using the mapping features.
After all who would be able to replace a full size GPS unit with a 1.4 inch screen?
That being said, is the crises a self perpetuating one? Is it just that two groups cant work together? Garmin still says in support emails to me that there is a possibility of updating the watch and the FAQ’s still list the epix as being one of the watches capable of displaying the metrics (albeit with a software update). I guess my question to anyone who will listen is What’s next? How can I as an epix user try to push this forward? Is it a group effort ala a petition, or is it constant support tickets? Anyone have any suggestions?
Just to be really clear – since I keep seeing it misquoted. Garmin did very clearly say Epix is getting further updates. They just specified it’s not getting some of the recent Fenix3 new sport mode and Gen2 running dynamics updates.
Good to know Ray although recent support of the epix has been close to non existant so you can understand how users feel left in the dark. Real lack of vision from Garmin to push development back of a brand new product segment. Did Apple sell many iwaches – answer is no. Do they believe they can grow the segment by futher development and interations – answer is yes. And they undoubtedly will, ’nuff said.
Thanks Allan,
I guess my response can just be filed under “beating a dead horse”… (an old saying and not PC I know…)
Ray
I apologize if I have misrepresented my concern, for me it is strictly about the software update required to display the Gen 2 running dynamics, and the company’s lack of communication with registered users.
I guess it is difficult for me to completely abandon hope when a quick read of Garmin’s own Frequently Asked Questions shows the following: (there are several that state the same information)
This is copied directly from Garmin’s site:
Support
Frequently Asked Questions
« Get additional answers from Garmin
Which devices can display running dynamics?
Email this Answer
Print this Answer
01/05/2016
The HRM-Run and HRM-Tri have the ability to compute and send running dynamics to compatible Garmin devices. All running dynamics include:
◦Cadence
◦Ground contact time1
◦Ground contact time balance1
◦Stride length
◦Vertical oscillation
◦Vertical ratio
The epix, fenix 2, and Forerunner 620 display cadence, ground contact time, and vertical oscillation when paired with an HRM-Run or HRM-Tri.
Devices that will display all running dynamics2:
◦epix
◦fenix 3
◦Forerunner 630
◦Forerunner 920XT
◦tactix Bravo
1Ground contact time and ground contact balance are only computed during running activities. If walking these metrics are not computed.
2epix, fenix 3, Forerunner 920XT, and tactix Bravo may require a software update to display and record ground contact time balance, stride length, and vertical ratio.
FYI the latest response from Garmin Support:
Dear Gordon Warren,
Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I can definitely assist you with your question.
The Gen 2 running dynamics should at some point in the future be added to the epix.
Unfortunately I cannot give you an exact date because I do not know when that will be added.
If you have any further questions please let us know.
With Best Regards,
Matthew 8996359
Customer Care – Outdoor Team
Garmin International
Ask and shall receive especially after a few snafu’s. Thanks Garmin your a company that will hopefully turn a slow start into a great product your that kind of company. I’ve owned one dog out of my whole dozen or so purchases from you and you stood behind it until I wore it out. I’m hoping the same for the Epix.
Seems that the left hand no know what the right hand I’d doing and vice versa, but that is nothing new from garmin…
But first they should fix the lots of existing bugs, before they add new features….
“Is doing”, typo
Yes Volker 100% agree. The maps can still hang if you’re in a car (yes it’s a hiking watch) but it’s the software not hardware and therefore inexcusable that this remains. They should also have very basic functions that my 3 year old original fenix had and epix does not such as customisable alerts for arrival that trigger x time or distance remaining to your destination. So difficult to understand how things like that get left out.
hi i am from australia i want to know if the multisport epix garmin is in us dollars or australian and how much is it for postage
hi i am from australia i want to know if the multisport epix garmin is in U.S dollars or australian and how much is it for postage does the watch come second hand or brand new and also does it come with a charger and manual instructions on how to operate it
Sorry if this has been covered, when I go to navigate a course it resets itself. Is there something I can do to make it work properly?
Hey there, Ray!
I and a half dozen of hiking/climbing buddies of mine have been silently following this post for a couple of months, now, and we’re all wondering when’s the ETA for your In-Depth Review of the Garmin Epix.
Or have you already abandoned the project altogether?
We sure hope not!
Thanks for your reply!
Hey guys!
I got a few questions and would really appreciate if any of you cared to answer them:
1. Can the owners of the Garmin epix confirm the fact that the Garmin epix does not support latest real-time Advanced Running Dynamics (namely Stride Length, Vertical Oscillation, and Vertical Ratio)?
On most of the relevant pages on the garmin.com website ( link to support.garmin.com{82c4a520-9788-11e5-4cfe-000000000000} [<— this one is just a tiny bit conflicting] + link to support.garmin.com{45f95e80-9795-11e5-4cfe-000000000000} + link to support.garmin.com{2f8b74b0-776c-11e5-d135-000000000000} ) the manufacturer clearly states that the Garmin epix DOES indeed support the latest real-time Advanced Running Dynamics (namely Stride Length, Vertical Oscillation, and Vertical Ratio), but there are some pages on there (although, they're mostly outdated: link to buy.garmin.com + link to buy.garmin.com) that don't mention the Garmin epix having support for the "Runnig Dynamics", but I'm pretty sure they're referring to the "old" (first generation) running dynamics here (namely Cadence, Vertical oscillation, and Ground Contact Time), which I'm quite certain the Garmin epix does indeed fully support: correct me, if I'm wrong, though, please!
It's also interesting to note that the pages on the garmin.com website claiming that the Garmin epix DOES support the latest real-time Advanced Running Dynamics have been updated between Jan 5, 2016, and Jan 20, 2016, meaning that they've been revised fairly recently!
2. On the topic of the latest and greatest, can any of you proud Garmin epix owners tell me whether you folks have (I'm guessing app) access to the following Advanced Heart Rate and Physiological Features: Stress Score Test, Performance Condition Test (Performance Indicator), Lactate Threshold Test, Recovery Advisor, Race Predictor, and VO2 Max. Test?
Thanks a lot!
Hi Gerome,
Thanks for your post.
1) Most assuredly the epix does not (at this time) support or display the new Gen 2 running dynamics. I email their support site twice a week sometimes more, and they confirm that the watch will not show those metrics unless there is an update to its current software.
2) It does show the original running dynamics, I use them, all the time. Also I can tell you first hand that the VO2 max estimate, Race Predictor, and Recovery Advisor all work. Varying degrees of accuracy they are estimates after all… I find them all to be fairly useful tools to gauge my workouts.
Hello Gordon!
Thank you for your reply!
On your Garmin epix running the latest firmware, could you please:
1. list all of the items in the My Stats menu?
2. check whether you have (or can install) an app called Stress Core in your Connect IQ apps menu?
3. check whether you can add a Performance Condition data field into your Run app?
4. check whether you’re able to see your Recovery Heart Rate value after you STOP an activity while wearing an HRM strap?
Thanks a lot – I really appreciate it!
I forgot to ask whether anyone could run through the above listed four points on their fénix 3, so I can compare the latest functionality of the two devices (the epix and fénix 3).
Thanks a billion!
Hey Gerome,
Sorry for the delay, I am really not very good at quick replies, that being said, I also had a bit of an issue with the last firmware update (3.20): My watch reset all the custom data screens back to default. Also the custom App I had created for Skating disappeared, it took a couple days to get everything back.
1) My Stats Menu:
i) Recovery Advisor
ii) VO2 Max
iii) Race Predictor
iv) Records
v) Odometer
vi) User Profile
2) I do not have Stress Core App from the IQ Apps Menu, the only data fields I have are:
i) Record Current Activity (TeunMo)
ii) Resting Heart Rate (TeunMo)
iii) Exact Pace Datafield (1 Second Steps) (lohrm)
The only IQ App I have installed is Cardiometer (Lladnaar)
Sorry but I can’t even seem to locate the Stress Core App in the IQ Store for download and install. Is that the actual name? Is it an App, Data Field or Widget?
3) I don’t have any Performance Condition data fields visible in my Run App.
4) I will check today and get back to you…
Hi Gordon!
Thanks a lot for your reply – you’re a star!
1. Shame about the apparent lack of Lactate Threshold stat. Thanks, though!
2. It’s an app (and not a Data Field or Widget) called Stress Score not Stress Core (my bad!), and it only works with a heart rate monitor! It should look like this: www8 dot garmin dot com/manuals/webhelp/forerunner630/EN-US/GUID-84D76CAF-F080-40BA-A7F4-C1C82185E71B dot html
3. The Performance Condition data field should look like this: www8 dot garmin dot com/manuals/webhelp/forerunner630/EN-US/GUID-71F0FE27-D086-420F-BDE0-D7A456D6515D dot html
4. I can’t wait – I really appreciate it!
Actually, the Performance Condition is more of a Data Screen by itself (www8 dot garmin dot com/manuals/webhelp/epix/EN-US/GUID-638CD68D-11B0-4D9C-B8B7-E28D15EC4566 dot html) than a Data Field (I guess it’s too large for the resolution of devices it’s compatible with!), it seems.
Just as an update, I did confirm with the Garmin PR & Product Team folks that the support article* listing Epix was just a typo, and not some premonition of what’s to come for Gen2 Running Dynamics. It’s now been ‘fixed’.
*https://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?caseId=%7b45f95e80-9795-11e5-4cfe-000000000000%7d
oh well… By the way it appears that all I’m asking for has already been there the whole time!
(not really, just a funny tech support response)
Dear Gordon Warren,
Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I will be happy to help today.
As long as you are using an HRM-Run with the epix you should be able to display the run dynamics you mentioned while in a running activity. Please make sure the software on the epix is up to date using Garmin Express on your computer. Once all this is done you should see the running information you are looking for. I tested this with a HRM-Run and epix I have here and all the running dynamics you mentioned are visible on the device.
If you have any additional questions please let me know.
With Best Regards,
Austin 8996336
Customer Care – Outdoor Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200
800-800-1020
913-440-8280 (Fax) Att: Austin 8996336
http://www.garmin.com
Maybe instead of fixing “typos” they could add the running dynamics… Might be quicker…
Again this is a copy of their FAQ as of tonight (Feb 7th 22:10 CST 2016)
Explore
Products
Maps
Support
.
Support
Frequently Asked Questions
« Get additional answers from Garmin
Which devices can display running dynamics?
Email this Answer
Print this Answer
01/05/2016
The HRM-Run and HRM-Tri have the ability to compute and send running dynamics to compatible Garmin devices. All running dynamics include:
◦Cadence
◦Ground contact time1
◦Ground contact time balance1
◦Stride length
◦Vertical oscillation
◦Vertical ratio
The epix, fenix 2, and Forerunner 620 display cadence, ground contact time, and vertical oscillation when paired with an HRM-Run or HRM-Tri.
Devices that will display all running dynamics2:
◦epix
◦fenix 3
◦Forerunner 630
◦Forerunner 920XT
◦tactix Bravo
1Ground contact time and ground contact balance are only computed during running activities. If walking these metrics are not computed.
2epix, fenix 3, Forerunner 920XT, and tactix Bravo may require a software update to display and record ground contact time balance, stride length, and vertical ratio.
Wow!
Garmin guys are REALLY lazy! Not only do they simply refuse to adequately support/update the epix just 9 months after its release, but they don’t even have the integrity to fix the other two FAQs they had managed to mess up with their fabled considerate CTRL+C —> CTRL+V customer support (This one being arguably the most direct pivotal FAQ they haven’t fixed yet, as pointed out by Gordon and myself: {82c4a520-9788-11e5-4cfe-000000000000} ).
Oh well, anyway:
Great job, Ray!
Terrible job, Garmin! Quintuple boo for you guys with regard to your flagship “Full-featured Fitness Training Watch” (epix)! LOL!
Hey Gordon!
Have you managed to check whether you’re able to see your Recovery Heart Rate value after you STOP an activity while wearing an HRM strap, yet?
Thanks!
While waiting for the In-Depth Review, I’ve been holding out on asking questions, but I figured I might as well inquire away:
Does anyone know whether the Garmin epix fully supports the Cycling Dynamics as transmitted by the Vector 2 pedals to compatible devices?
Breaking news
Major bug fix update 3.20 is out
link to www8.garmin.com
You forgot the sarcasm tag.
So I installed 3.2 on my Epix using Express and then took it out and ran it when I walked the dog. Since I was never affected by the one thing that they claim to have fixed, I didn’t notice any difference. When I deleted the activity at the end, it worked like it usually works. The altimeter is still off (didn’t bother calibrating), and I didn’t try to navigate. I might get a chance to do a more serious test tomorrow.
They still haven’t officially announced this on the forums like they usually do. I don’t know what that might mean.
Yes, I was never effected by this mentioned issue, too. Strange treatment of the (few) remaining epix users.
I think, there are about 10/15 issues not fixed since month, that I have reported to the fw team ( and I think other people reported a lot of other issues).
One the one hand, it could be a sign:” hey we are still working on the ” epix, on the other hand, I feel myself ripped….(in german: verarscht).
Or it could mean that they’re dumping out the one bug they fixed in an afternoon back in early November and ridding themselves of the whole thing. We’ll know only if they put out further updates. They’ve fulfilled the promise they made to us through Ray. It’s not like Garmin announces that they’ve ceased support; it just happens.
Hey Ray!
I’m not sure whether you’re reading this anymore or not, but I believe that at this point, for posterity’s sake, it wouldn’t be such a bad idea to add “GEN2 RUNNING DYNAMICS (GROUND CONTACT TIME BALANCE, STRIDE LENGTH, AND VERTICAL RATIO)”, “LACTATE THRESHOLD”, and “PERFORMANCE CONDITION INDICATOR” rows into the RUNNING section and “STRESS SCORE TEST” row into the FUNCTIONS section of your Product Comparison Tool on this page and your main Product Comparison Calculator found elsewhere on your site! (Great job on that, by the way!)
It shouldn’t be too much work, right?
What do you say?
Thanks!
Hi
Post in garmín forum from a user:
Just received an answer from Garmin Fitness by twitter: ” There is no established released date and no ETA but there will be an update.
~JH ”
finger crossed!
link to forums.garmin.com
The heck?!
The amount of confusion, misinformation, and discord among Garmin representatives is just too damn high!
Idelacruz, could you please link their Twitter response, so I can add it to my arsenal of things to use to push them for a change?
Never mind – I guess you’re not the originator of said post on the pertinent Garmin forum.
Shucks.
P. S.: They clearly told Ray (several times) that it’s a no-go for the Gen2 Running Dynamics in the Garmin epix.
Yeah, I think it’s just disorganization.
I’m talking directly to the lead PR person, who is in turn talking to the lead Epix program manager (actually, over all of Outdoor). There’s basically no room for confusion when it comes to features* and what they’re saying.
*There is always room for confusion when it comes to retail availability/shipping times, since other divisions in Garmin can override the program teams on that. But they don’t override features discussions from what I’ve seen. Change their mind eventually, perhaps, but not very often.
Thanks ray, so no update for advance running dinamics, could you ask if they are going to address atleast interval issues and pace alerts. For me is the most important issue of the watch
Thanks a lot
Regards
Isaac
Can you clarify what specifically those issues are?
Hi
Yes sure,
For example you have a training with repetition, Work: sprint 500m to 3.30 m/km Recuperation: 2 min of recuperation
For me there are 3 main issues:
1- No pace alert, like you have with hr.
2- The field in the right side of the screen with the current lap over total, has disappeared.
3- In a phase based on time, like recupertation 2 min, is overlaping wiht the next phase.
You can see it in this video: link to goo.gl, In this video also paear the field wiht the current lap over the total laps, this is not present in 3.1 / 3.2
Under my pont of view number 3 is the most important.
Here the forum speaking about this issues: link to forums.garmin.com
Thnkas a lot Ray
if they will not fix this problem, i think i will return epix finally. Wont buy Fenix3, because with no maps i have a lot of other watches to choose from (V800, Suunto Ambit etc).
How it it even possible, to advertise a function that is not there! And i dont talk about something missing, but about function that is coded but devs are cleary dont give a damn to make it work?
You state that it has routable maps like a car gps, so does it work like the edge series where i could download a course to it and it would give me turn by turn notifications while on the bike
I’ve never gotten it to do turn-by-turn, although it knows about the roads on the maps and shows accurate turn indicators on the map at intersections. It’s never prompted me to “turn here” like an Edge does. This could possibly be a problem with Garmin BaseCamp, which I always use to plot routes, rather than the Epix itself. Certainly it does not work with BaseCamp the same way my Edge 800 does. When I plot a route in BaseCamp and send it to the Epix, it does show the line on the map and turn indications on the map, but no prompting, pretty similar to “course based” navigation on an Edge when you turn turn-by-turn off.
On the other hand, people on the Garmin forums have said that if you go through the laborious process of choosing a point of interest (there’s no voice command and no way of entering an address, so you scroll through a list), then it does do turn by turn for point-to-point navigation (something I’ve never done). And if you check the Fenix 3 (no maps) forums, there are places where you can construct a route with prompts as you near the waypoints to mimic turn-by-turn, so that would certainly work with the Epix and you’d have the advantage of a map as well.
Hey, anyone actually using the epix and not having problems?
I’ve now have gone back to the fenix 3 from the Vivoactive and the Fenix 3 (for me) is now flawless….but I really would like mapping, so wondering if the epix is more stable then when it was first released?
I use this watch from October 2015. It is stable now, the only issue that bothers me is a screen unlock problem. When starts rainining and a touch screen is unlocked the screen goes crazy. The screen unlocks itself when you change the screens.
The mapping works great – it saved me several times when hiking in the canyons covered with snow recently. Just don’t expect from it that it will work in the same convinient way like a car navigation system.
Overall it is a great watch. IMHO by far the best sport watch on the market.
Thanks for the reply. I pulled the trigger on the epix and here’s hoping it’s settled down from my first unit.
I was reading about the issue of moisture on the screen causing issues with firmware 3.2. My watch is currently on 2.1. I’m tempted to leave it there as I really don’t want to deal with screen unlock issues and possibly lose an activity.
I would update the watch anyway.
You will not loose the activity in raining (not just moisture, the watch is perfectly waterproof). The worst thing that may happen in sudden raining before you lock the screen is you may find different data fields on the screen. Usually you will find a watch in this situation asking you which data field you want to see (instead of the data field which was touch pressed unintentionally)
If you see this – just press back and long press on the power button to lock the screen and you are good.
I have stopped thinking about Epix like about epix sports watch, because garmin cleary dont want it to be (lacks of working workout function, lacks of 2nd dynamics, lack of ground profile).
It just wrist factor navigation device. I hope some other company will make small factor navigation device (not necessary a watch). If not i will back to z3c + other brand watch combo.
Yep i am using Epix since day one and being big fan of it.
Yes, I am with you. Epix is great for maps on a device, but some other things are not good ( no real bug fix update > 4 month); Maps are great, but not all. I just ordered a f3 (again) and will use epix for some activities, were I (may be need) maps. The new elevation plot feature of the f3 was the main reason for me to order a f3- in the mountains, an elevation plot is a must have for (me for) more safety – for maping I always take a good paper map of the area I am traveling with me, so the f3 maybe make me happy…
Hey Ray!
Now would be a great time to release the Epix review!
Whaddayasay? *wink wink*
Thanks!
Here here, let’s have the review Ray!
I’ve spent a week with the epix and can happily report, no crashes, good GPS tracks and it’s actually much more comfortable then I thought as a everyday watch.
Hey guys!
I’m hearing horror stories of the grey Garmin fénix 3’s bezel (and even glass!) getting scratched pretty easily, so I was wondering if any of you Garmin epix owners would care to share your stories of scratches (or hopefully lack thereof!) of your Garmin epix’s bezel and glass!
Although not required, pictures massively appreciated!
Thanks a lot!
Hi Gerome,
After active usage of Epix for 4 months now – hiking, running, cycling, swimming including open water and using it as an everyday watch – just no scratches on the basel and glass yet.
I guess it is made more sturdy than Fenix 3, it is definitely more sturdy than Fenix 1,2 and forerunners I owned previousely.
I’ve had a fenix 3 for a few months and have worn it 24/7 and it shows very little sign of wear.
The epix seems like it will hold up fairly well, but I’ve only put it throught it’s paces for 2 weeks now.
But I tend to not worry about looks too much as I view a watch as a tool to be used and signs of wear are inevitable for a outdoor watch worn 24/7.
Here’s a picture of my Epix (with some sweat etc. on the screen) but no signs of wear.
Thank you for the replies, guys!
It’s awesome to hear your durability reports!
Hey Gunnar, mind if I ask you a couple of questions?
Why did you get the epix when you already had had the fénix 3? Didn’t like the fénix 3 that much? Were there any hardware or software problems with it?
What do you use the epix for and what do you use the fénix 3 for?
Which one do you use more, lately: the epix or the fénix 3?
Which one is your favorite, overall: the epix or the fénix 3?
What do you have the epix tied to in the picture?
The next question is for both of you fine gentlemen:
Do you use an HRM strap (if so, which?) and/or foot pod (if so, which?) with either the epix or the fénix 3?
Thanks a bunch!
I use Garmin HRM-Run strap mostly, sometimes I use Scosche Rythm+ optical sensor instead.
No foot pod, the watch has an internal accelerometer so it measures the steps related things like running cadence with no need for the footpod.
Regarding the placement of the epix to the handle bar – you can use any mount with Epix (and with fenix) – Garmin’s, polar’s and suunto’s it is compatible with all of them. I personally mount my epix on a polar bike mount. It is lighter and cheaper and I have it already for years.
Another thing, I use my epix with the soft strap which came with my Fenix 2 – it is more convinient than the standard one and lighter. The epix with this straps weights 69 gram only.
I got my epix for about 7 months now, I have used it as an everyday watch, with a lot of outdoor (hiking, mountain biking) use. so far no visible screen scratches, nor any important bezel scratches, maybe the only visible wear is from the four screws on the watch edges , their black color has turned to silver in the edges. and a laminated plastic cover on the back sticker on the watch with the serial number eventually came a little bit loose when wiping some sweat off, so I ended up removing the whole sticker (the serial number and brand engraving on the back of my previous unit, a fenix 1, looked more premium compared to the epix sticker )
I simply got the epix because it did everything the fenix3 does, but also has mapping. I want one device that does everything for me and having the epix means I don’t need a seperate edge mapping device for cycling.
The fenix3 worked well for me, but I wear the epix as my everyday watch so I’ll be selling my fenix3. The epix might be too geeky for some to wear as a daily watch, but I’m ok with it.
The bike mount is a simple chunk of foam I cut from a length of round pipe insulation. Easy Peary and cheap!
I primarily use the epix for cycling and running, some cross fit and the random mountain hike.
If the fenix 3 had mapping, that would be my favorite. The smaller form factor of the fenix3 is the winner there.
I use the Scoshe Optical HR. Works great.
But while the Epix was a superset of the fenix functionality when it came out it is not that way anymore
But the Epix can’t do turn-by-turn like the mapping Edge’s do (at least I’ve never gotten mine to do it). Course based navigation is usable, but turn-by-turn is better. Epix can do the job of an Edge, but it’s not a convenient form factor for cycling, and you can put more data fields on a single page on an Edge and are still able to see it better than you can an Epix. So you may not “need” a separate device if you have an Epix, but I’d much rather use my Edge 800 than my Epix for cycling.
Well, I hardly ever used turn by turn directions on my edge units. I find it much easier just to follow the breadcrumb trail. So the epix works well for this (for me).
I also can have 6 data points on one page (8 if you include battery percentage and TOD). That’s all I ever used on my edge devices.
So, for me, the epix works well as a all in one unit. I know others thoughts and needs are different then mine, I guess that’s why Garmin makes so many different units!
The epix does do turn-by-turn navigation, if you have the Garmin 24K TOPO maps (or one of the free maps that supports turn-by-turn). I’ve done it on my Epix, and it works, but is slightly clunky. There’s a big thread about it on the Garmin forums here:
link to forums.garmin.com
Gunnar,
what is the data field you are using on the picture above?
looks nice for cycling
Yes, I know it can in theory do turn-by-turn, and I’ve read that thread. it’s just not possible doing it my usual way setting up a route in BaseCamp and sending it to the device. With my Edge 800 (and 705 and on a 60CSx), this works great using US 24k TOPO’s. On the Epix, it doesn’t. Possibly it’s a failing with BaseCamp; maybe it doesn’t know that there’s a watch that can do turn-by-turn and sends a track rather than a route. Whatever the reason, searching for POI’s on the Epix itself is not a pleasant thing to do since the UI is so limited, and I’d never do that unless I was desperate. (I have an Apple Watch; if I want to go somewhere on a whim normally all I have to do is tell Siri to “Take me to X”). Turn-by-turn means both sound and visual prompts, and it works great on an Edge. (Although the Edges, like the Epix, can have trouble when the start and end points of a route the same, and with loops and out and backs in the route.) I don’t mind the course based navigation on the Epix, but I really wish it were easy to do turn-by-turn.
Paul S,
Yes, and the coffee that epix make is not that good…
Hello? It is a watch, not a hand held, not edge and does not require a constant phone connection! What do you expect from it?
Overall the navigation that Epix provides is by far the best among all the other watches. Turn-by-turn thing does work if you use routable maps but not in a convenient way, but who cares. You will not navigate with this while driving the car anyway.
I think you’re correct that BaseCamp is sending the device a track instead of a route. On the fenix 3, I’ve had success importing TCX routes with turn-by-turn into Garmin Training Center and then pushing them to the device. I can’t seem to figure out how to get BaseCamp to export a route as a TCX file properly though (I just get an empty file).
Michael, the app use for the additional data fields is the 367Bike(Pro) data field. Cost $6, but is highly worth it.
Again, as far as turn by turn directions go, I found them clunky on all my edge devices so I never used them. I really like how on the epix when you go of course the screen continues to automatically zoom out in increments as you get further from your course breadcrumb trail. Super easy to follow.
OK, here’s a question I’m deeply interested in – a question whose answer might further widen the gap of abandonment between the “flagship” epix and the FR920XT/fénix 3 devices.
According to Ray’s former investigation, none of Garmin’s premier GPS watches (FR920XT, fénix 3, and assumingly the epix) could record pace and/or distance traveled from a foot pod when an outdoor activity has started, i. e., when the given watch’s GPS was active: this was fully fixed in the fénix 3’s firmware version 4.60 and at least partially fixed (with regard to pace for sure, but probably distance as well [I need confirmation on that]) in the FR920XT’s firmware version 6.10. Was it fixed in the epix? Not according to its firmware’s Change History!
So the question for all of you fine folks sporting the glorious epix and being a proud owner of a foot pod as well (not sure how many of you are out there, though!):
—
Is there any way one can set (maybe by setting the watch’s speed source to Foot Pod?) their Garmin epix to record both pace and distance traveled from a foot pod (and NOT from the watch’s GPS) while still getting a route map with elevation data from the Garmin epix’s GPS in the Garmin Connect at the end of a given pedestrian activity (hiking, running, trail running, etc.)?
—
To reiterate, the above was NOT POSSIBLE to do on either the FR920XT or the fénix 3 at the time of their respective releases! IT IS POSSIBLE NOW!
If this is NOT POSSIBLE in the epix, then consider it another blow to the abandoned “ship of the line”.
If you wish to know more about this, I suggest you head over to the fenix 3 post #2894 (one post before this one: link to dcrainmaker.com) and read the discussion from there.
Thanks a lot!
P. S.:If you have little time to do a proper in-the-field test to see if you get pace/distance traveled readings from a foot pod alongside a relevant route map with elevation data in the Garmin Connect, then head over to the epix’s Settings > Sensors > Foot Pod, and please tell me what options you do see there. Thanks!
Hi Gerome,
A question – Why do you need a foot pod in a device like this? all these devices have internal accelerometers so they measure everything that foot pod measures, right?
Hi Michael!
The internal accelerometer and GPS are not good enough for my intents and purposes: indoor and trail running, specifically.
I hope that helped to clear things up for you.
Oh, and forest fartlek and orienteering.
Basically, I need a foot pod, and by extension, a watch capable of utilizing said foot pod while recording an outdoor activity (most preferably, although not ABSOLUTELY necessarily, with GPS for route map and elevation logging purposes).
Basically, if the epix can’t do that, it comes straight off my shortlist, even if there’s a 70% sale on it AND they fix all of its bugs AND they give me a free 10k topo world map. OK, maybe if I get ALL of that AND the 70% discount, I’d buy it as a toy, or I’d use it as collar for my dog if the band were wide enough, I dunno…
Gerome,
As far as I understand a foot pod is just a stand alone accelerometer. Am I wrong? What is the difference?
What is the difference say running indoor with a foot pod paired to the device or just with the device on a hand without a foot pod? Both just measure steps or there is some additional data you have from a foot pod?
I am just curious to know
And anyway, if you just need a GPS watch for running, and don’t need maps why not to go for a specific running watch?
I personally use my epix for many things including trail and indoor running. No problems on trails, except the instant pace is not always correct, so I use a 10s average pace – thus it is OK.
During indoor running – no problems but the watch shows me usually a smaller distance in comparison to tread mill, but I guess it is just about a correct stride calibration.
Hi again, Michael!
I’m glad you asked!
There’s a general consensus (at least from my own research and face-to-face dialog with runners) that WDR- (watch’s internal accelerometer system) and GPS-based pace tracking pale when pitted against a foot pod: that’s why every sports watch worth its salt prioritizes a foot pod to get pace data from.
While it’s true that a foot pod is “just” an accelerometer, it nevertheless tends to deliver a cleaner signal due to its standalone, isolated nature, but more importantly, you have the device on your foot, hence “foot” pod.
Accelerometers measure acceleration relative to a free-fall and through clever use of systems they pretty accurately calculate the relative distance they travel in space: I would much rather have an accelerometer on my foot to measure the distance my actual foot travels (which is known as “distance traveled”, which divided by time gives you speed, which you can calculate pace from) than to have it on my wrist with eight gazillion other gadgets crammed into 3 cubic inches to measure the distance my wrist travels and largely guestimate the relation between the movement of my wrist and the movement of my actual foot; not to mention, a foot pod is by far less “form sensitive” than WDR: a form is something I strive to maintain, but when the going gets tough (and/or mountainous) and tiredness kicks in, you know…
While I don’t NEED maps, there’s hardly anything one truly NEEDS for running except their two capable legs (and functioning vital organs), right? It’s all about the nice-to-haves, and while the maps are nice to have, for me, a working foot pod is much nicer-to-have, and software stability, timely updates and bug fixes, and general non-subpar post-purchase customer support (or at least the lack of outright abandonment) are nicer to have still!
I don’t think I’ll get a dedicated running watch, because I enjoy biking and swimming as well, from time to time; plus, I like the even-if-limited “navigation” features of either the fénix 3 or the FR920XT.
Having said all of that, I would really want to give the Garmin epix a fair chance, despite all the negativity it gets one can easily find on forums across the internet, but if I can’t use a foot pod with it, I’m not even gonna bother, hence I would REALLY appreciate if some could answer my original question:
—
Is there any way one can set (maybe by setting the watch’s speed source to Foot Pod?) their Garmin epix to record both pace and distance traveled from a foot pod (and NOT from the watch’s GPS) while still getting a route map with elevation data from the Garmin epix’s GPS in the Garmin Connect at the end of a given pedestrian activity (hiking, running, trail running, etc.)?
—
If you wish to know more about foot pods, have a read here: link to dcrainmaker.com and look up “GPS Accuracy of Garmin, Polar, and other Running Watches” on Google and have a read on what Jonathan Savage has to say. You can also check out his dedicated foot pod article. If you wish to know more still, I recommend you do a bit of research on the internet: there’s A LOT of information on this topic to be consumed!
Anyway, I hope that helped.
The epix can use the footpods for speed and still use the GPS for distance and everything else. I use this by default when running on the road. The only downside is that it won’t calculate a VO2 max value with this setting . This was of course fixed months ago on the fenix but as there hasn’t been a proper firmware update for the epix, it remains a problem.
Hey Roger!
Thank you for your reply!
Can you mix and match the pace/speed and distance traveled sources, i. e., both pace/speed and distance traveled from the GPS (default), pace/speed from the foot pod and distance traveled from the GPS, both pace/speed and distance traveled from the foot pod?
If you can mix and match the pace/speed and distance traveled sources as described in the previous paragraph and you set both pace/speed and distance traveled to be recorded from the foot pod, do you still get a route map with elevation data in the Garmin Connect after a given activity?
Was the Garmin epix capable of utilizing the foot pod outdoors with GPS active since release or was that functionality added later and not documented? Just curious.
Thanks again!
For some reason, I was looking at a different version of the Garmin epix’s firmware Change History…
It seems that they added the requested function in firmware version 2.90!
By the current looks of it, both the epix and the fénix 3 got the “ability to configure foot pod speed and distance (Settings > Sensors > Foot Pod)” but the FR920XT only got “support for using a footpod as the speed source while running” with no mention of distance.
I still wonder whether you can set the Garmin epix to record both pace/speed and distance traveled from a foot pod and still get a route map with elevation data in the Garmin Connect after a given activity.
Does anybody know?
Thanks!
Can’t tell you about the foot pod in particular, but I can tell you that you always get a map and elevation data. With a cycling speed sensor, speed and distance comes from the sensor but you still get a complete recording of GPS points (from which you can derive speed and distance if you want; Strava does that and ignores the sensor). If GPS is on and an activity is running, location points will be recorded.
Hey Paul!
Thank you for your reply – I found it very helpful!
So you’re saying Strava completely ignores speed AND distance data you recorded with your SPECIALIZED sensors and calculates it from the GPS data only (for distance) and the time your watch kept (for speed in conjunction with the distance calculated solely from said GPS data)? That’s pretty dumb!
What about Garmin Connect? Does it save/log/display your specialized sensor data, or does it ignore it like Strava?
Thanks again, Paul!
Garmin Connect always just uses whatever the device itself tells it. If that came from the sensor, that’s what it uses.
For cycling, most of the time it doesn’t matter. My ride today, for example, is 19.26 miles on GC (which is what my Edge 800 connected to my speed sensor gave) and 19.2 miles on Strava (Strava only seems to report to the nearest 1/10th). I have Mac software that I use that allows you to flip back and forth between sensor and GPS speed/distance, and provided the calibration of the sensor is correct it’s always within a few hundredths to a tenth at most, even on the mountain bike where GPS isn’t as reliable.
I don’t know why Strava does that, but it’s going to be more right if something went wrong with the sensor (battery dies, magnet gets knocked out of alignment with the old style sensors, calibration is off) and less right if something goes wrong with GPS. But I know it does because things have gone wrong and the distances were not almost the same as they usually are.
Sure signs that Garmin is done with at least this version of the Epix. I just picked one up at REI on clearance for $328.93. ($469.93 – 30%) You need to be an REI member, but that only costs $20. 30% off clearance sale ends March 13th.
The Epix went off of MAP policy (Minimum Advertised Price) way back in November, so basically retailers can price it at whatever they’d like (versus something like the FR920XT, which is still on MAP).
I was fairly surprised to see it come off MAP under a year old, aside from Vivofit products, I can’t remember the last time that happened.
Almost seems like the Fenix 3 was a bigger hit than Garmin expected and the Epix less popular than expected. It’ll be interesting to see if they come out with an improved Epix or just fold it’s features into the Fenix 4. Sure hope it is the latter.
Come on Ray tell us what you really think. This watch really fits my needs of easy record keeping for a variety of sports plus a quick map when I decide to ditch the mountain bike outside the wilderness boundary for a quick hike. It is great for those urban wilderness hikes when I’m in London or Edinburgh too. Nice thing about Garmin is they seem to have the right watch for everyone’s adventure. I really like this watch!
P.S. This is even after I had to return my initial watch because the GPS had a problem…hands down Garmin took care to get me another as soon as they could.
I feel like over the course of the 131 comments that I’ve left so far, I’ve covered almost everything I can about my opinions of the watch. But, to summarize:
– I think it’s ugly, but that’s a personal preference.
– I think it largely works well for swim/bike/run in terms of data & tracking
– I think the GPS is mostly good, with a few quirks.
– In accuracy testing, I found it no better or worse in deep-woods scenarios than the V800 or Ambit3 or Fenix3. All can be fooled, and all can have a bad time in tough environments.
– I don’t think the lack of Gen2 Running Dynamics matters (to me), because I don’t really see much value in Running Dynamics anyway. So an extra metric or two of largely non-useful metrics just doesn’t sway me one way or the other.
– Lactate Threshold however, is something that is more valuable and on other units.
– The display of maps themselves (the imagery aspect) is also mostly fine and kinda neat.
– Ultimately my main beef with the unit comes down to just how terrible/poor getting maps on it is. First off, it costs a lot of money to get anything beyond the base maps that are included.
– Ignoring the map costs, it’s super clunky to get maps on there. This isn’t 2004 or even 2012 anymore. It should be mobile first, and wifi connected for downloading maps.
– I should be able to design routes on my phone and transfer them to the Epix. Period. No excuses. And I can’t.
– In my testing, it almost always failed to dynamically route across routable maps that I paid hundreds of dollars for. Seriously, I’d have spent my money better throwing money into the wind. At least someone might have found it useful.
– Ultimately, I’d rather have a $1-3 app on my phone for maps and a Fenix3. I can easily buy a solar charger for either if need be and going beyond the length of battery.
– So, for the areas that the Epix is defined as different, it fails for me. If you’re a triathlete, then it’s perfectly fine as long as you don’t care about going anywhere with the maps you have.
Just my two cents.
I have to agree with everything Ray points out. For 99% of people, the Fenix 3 or 920 would be a better device. But at this price, I picked one up so I can stop carrying my Edge 810 when I go on back country trail runs. No way would I use it as an everyday watch like I do my 630. But I wouldn’t use a Fenix as an every day watch either.
But wait, regarding maps for the epix, I just follow your great post on how to get maps on a Garmin Edge device through Garmin.openstreetmap.nl and it’s super easy and free. I have topo maps for my MTB adventures, Openstreet maps for road riding and even downloaded maps for my upcoming Italy trip….all free of charge (well, I did donate €5 for good karma).
For courses (routes) I go to Garmin Connect and under “courses” make my route, save it and can then it turns up in Garmin Connect Mobile and I transfer it to my epix. I usually do the route planning on my iPad, but I could also do it on my phone if needed.
Maps and routes on the epix are as easy to install as any edge device I’ve owned (edge 705, 800 and 320)…and free!
I think Ray wants to be able to do it all from his phone. With a computer, it is easy.
And if you happen to live in the NW region of the US, there is a free overlay map of most trails in Washington/Idaho/Oregon + British Columbia that I just installed and seems to work. link to switchbacks.com. Download the 11.1MB .img file and save it in the Garmin folder on the device.
I’m not saying I use my computer to transfer routes, everything is either done through my iPad or iPhone. I can just as easily have my epix connected to my iPad via Bluetooth as my iPhone.
I never travel with a computer, only an iPad and iPhone and as long as I have my maps pre-loaded I can do everything I need as far as activity uploading, route planning etc.
Last map comment…then I’ll keep quiet.
You mention in this day and age maps should be able to be downloaded to the device directly via wifi?
I wasn’t aware that other devices have this capability? I had the newest edge 320 and I needed my computer to load maps on that device (same goes for my 705, 800 and 810).
Or did I miss something and there are devices where we can load maps via wifi?
I get half way down your list and I’m happy with the Epix. (Lets cut the first one cause honestly UGLY should not matter.) I must admit the rest of the way I’m happy with clunky maps because I’m either lost, which I’ll wait for a map, or I have time to figure out where I am and can wait.
Whether I’m sitting in London or along the side of a wilderness area, I’m happy with clunky cause it tells me where I am. Garmin spends money to do mapping so I do not mind stepping up to pay for that service over a little red dot blinking on my I phone. Amazing that all that is on my wrist and I do not have to pull out that I-phone. Let’s at least give it a shot at something maybe we are not. Or should we just give it all over to Apple.
Yeah, the map capability is just great on the epix. But I also bought now a f3 again, because the fw is very stable, a great elevation plot is added and there is a really good fw update run (at the moment). Maps are not everything, the whole package must be right. But I will continue to use my epix, I really hope the existing bugs will be fixed and then I decide, which device is the better one for my next tour/trip. For the mountains, it is the f3, because of its elevation plot feature, for city trips, the epix because of its mapping/routing capabilities…
Hi Ray
This means that garmin will not fix interval and other issues?
Regards
Isaac
That’s not what was said. They’ve said they’ll be releasing future updates (including bug fixes), but they haven’t specified what will be in those, or when those will be.
Hi Ray,
It is quite sad to hear these things, Ray, especially that I believe that Garmin stops adding new features to the watch basing on low sales which are partially based on your bad review.
This is the only real multi-sport watch with maps. Yes its mapping is not as advanced as handheld mapping GPS devices, but it is still more than useful to have detailed maps on the wrist! It just works in a different way. No need to expect everything from the first (!) real sport watch with maps.
Just a small example:
two days ago I planned a road cycling trip which should be around 100km long, without too much elevation and preferably on quiet asphalt roads and where I have not ridden before.
It took me no more than 10 minutes to create a course with Garmin Connect (PC version)
Super simple transfer to the watch via Bluetooth from my mobile Garmin Connect (android)
That’s it – and the new course is in the watch – with elevation profile(!) see the picture.
Taking into account that the place where I have ridden the course the next day was new for me having the real colorful detailed maps in the watch available on the go for last minute changes and for easier navigation was invaluable for me.
I use free OSM maps, available for every region on the Earth without need to pay a penny.
I repeat what I said, this is the best watch on the market for a multi-sport adventures person (like myself) who wants everything in one device with no real competition.
Far better then Fenix3. Paired with Scoche R+ it is better than Fenix3HR as well as Scoche R+ gives HR with no problems in the water (I used this combo both in the pool and in the see already)
For me it is not ugly but pretty nice (it is personal), it is quite convenient and light. It weights just 69 gram with the soft strap from Fenix2.
Hi
I’ve been following recent posts on here and would like to stick up in defence of the watch. I recently won a 300km single stage foot race in the Arctic, and the Garmin Epix was a significant part of that win. People have posted various opinions on the watch, but for ultra runners and adventure racers I am increasingly convinced it is the best watch out there. I can assure you that you won’t find many tougher true tests of a watch like this – the conditions were extreme! In no particular order:
Battery life: The battery life was great and one of the brilliant features of this watch is that it is very simple to recharge on the go. In my kit I had a spare small USB rechargeable battery and used this keep the watch topped up. Given the size, the battery life is far better than any comparable hand-held GPS mapping unit.
Reliability: I ran the watch for 5 days continuously, non-stop, and didn’t have a single crash/freeze etc. It was 100% trouble free.
Navigation: As you can imagine, navigating in the Arctic (frozen lakes, rivers, snow covered forests) isn’t easy, but the watch is perfect for these long distance races. I was able to follow the GPX provided by race organisers and this where the maps come into their own. The combination of both the GPX track to follow along with the context the map gives (e.g. features, contours etc) meant I never got lost once across the five days. I have found the drawback of watches which have just a breadcrumb trail to follow (Fenix 3, 310XT) is that it’s hard to know when to turn etc because there is no context and therefore easy to turn too early or late. Additionally, the map is always on your wrist, so it’s easy to check and no need to have to refer to a hand-held GPS, which would be a pain on any endurance event.
I know this is not as in-depth as Ray’s review(!) but for ultrarunners, hikers or adventure racers I cannot think of a better unit on the market today. I wear the watch 24/7 and use it to track all my training and additionally navigate any new, long runs, and whilst things like notifications can be a little flakey, I have no complaints. The watch is also significantly more durable than the Fenix 3, where the bezel scratches easily.
I understand Ray’s criticism about not being able to get maps on via mobile, but for my training and racing this has never been a problem. The Birdseye Select mapping is easy to use and reasonable value, and additionally support for OSM means there is always a free option if needed.
Finally, my opinion on the complaints about software updates. I get why Garmin might be dumping new features from a cost-benefit point of view, but how much does this matter. Firstly, reliability has been fine – I use the watch for training twice a day and racing once every couple of months, and no problems to date. Secondly, think about what you do get with the watch, not what you don’t. You are buying a watch to solve a specific problem (in my case, long battery life with excellent navigation), and if it solves YOUR specific problem then I am sure it is a good buy. The fact that you might not get new run dynamics etc etc isn’t a problem if you don’t or won’t use them (and I doubt a large %age of users ever would).
I can’t speak for triathletes or other sports than listed above, but if I were sitting on the sidelines now thinking about this watch, I’d snap one up straight away, especially given the price at the moment. (PS I have no link to Garmin, just a happy user!)
“check is in the mail!” – Garmin Marketing Team
jk
I’ve only just figured out how to get it to follow a course and my girlfriend is using it for her ultra training but so far it seems promising.
Are you (or others) able to give any indication of battery life while maps and/or back light? Thanks.
I don’t really use the backlight because whenever it is dark I’ll have a head torch.
With maps, I have had about 20 hours of battery life. You need to make sure you have everything else switched off (WAAS, GLONASS, Bluetooth, activity tracking etc) and also the App you are using should have Power Save switched on too.
Or if it helps just get a small USB rechargeable battery and carry it with you – you’ll never run out because the battery watch is so small in comparison to the USB you will get many multiple recharges from it.
I am a ultrarunner too, but not that hardcore (rather beginner amateur ;P ). Kudos for you! But i use maps while running very often, especially when on the long runs. Context of map is key word here. It is so much useful that i like Epix over Fenix3. Even Fenix2 was better than Fenix3 in that.
I cant agree that everything is stable. When i bought that watch, it was told (and still is) that i can do complex workouts from GC. I cant. I wrote to Garmin Support, and made all the way with sending pics,videos,files. Nothing. I hope replacement from other company will come soon.
Hi,
Does the Garmin Epix has a countdown and timer and multiple alarms?
Thanks
I can’t figure out how to download created on mapmyrun . My runni g group sends them out and I can’t get it into my Epix watch.
What file format? Gpx? Connect your epix with a pc and transfer it in the “new files” folder of the epix, disconnect the epix…
Thank you. Where do I find my file on Epix after download.? I tried that and then looked under courses and did not see it. Where do I look?
I tried that before, but I could not locate my file on Epix. I looked on their courses and it wasn’t there. where do I look?
It’s my understanding you need to import it into Garmin basecamp, convert to course and then use basecamp to send it your epix. This is the only way I’ve managed to get a course onto mine, it’s a bit annoying but once you have basecamp downloaded it’s not so bad. Shame it isn’t as simple as dragging and dropping (which it is for many other Garmin devices) but there you go.
Hallo dc,
have you informations(because of your great garmin contacts), if the epix will ever become a bug fix update? The last real update was in 09/2015 (the following fw 3.2 update was a “joke”) or is the epix finally a “lame duck” for garmin and not supported by fw updates anymore????
regards
I haven’t asked in a while, but I’ll poke.
Thanks. The (few) remaining epix users are really waiting yearningly for a bug fix update (at least). It is a pitty- a watch with great map and routing capabilities and a lot of potential – but garmin did not use the opportunity to create a real big thing with the epix! (:
Any news about that?
“Sound of silence” from garmin?????
Or another “good answer like: ” we know that the epix has a lot of bugs but be don`t have a time table to fix it and can`t say, when (and if) we are going to fix it….??????
Yeah, Garmin confirmed in private mail to me, that they know about bugs and they dont have timetable for fixing them. Additionaly, they offered me upgrade to Fenix3… They forgot that Fenix3 is an downgarde, because it don’t have navigation features that i use a lot.
Now, for intervals training i have to take RS800CX , because on Epix they doesnt work. I cant test more connect IQ fields, because when i have more then three (four,five, etc) i got automatic restart when adding new field to app screen :/ (i dont want to instal-uninstal fields that i use only for testing new ones)
Its clear to me that they dont care about Epix users anymore. Its a lesson for me. NEVER buy new product from Garmin. Wait about a year to see if they take for serious that gear or they just plays with it.
Regarding Rabbit’s original question to Garmin, I did get answers back today on that. Albeit a very short answer:
“re: Epix, we’ll continue to support current units, but there aren’t plans for another generations.”
I had asked about firmware updates, and the above is what I got.
Thanks for this sad information. Sounds if we won’t get even another new wearable garmin device (Fenix 4) with mapping capabilities? Continue to support current units??? How and when???? About one year of silence with (bug fix) fw updates (fw 3.20 was no real update)… I have a long bug list and almost all my reported bugs are confirmed by the fw team but nothing happens > 1 year and so I really can’t believe that we will ever see a big bug fix update for the epix.
Support simply means that you can contact support with an issue, and they’ll assist.
So it seems, but i have contacted them several times and asked for help with interval clock and connect IQ fields problems. They didnt know how to assist me, only by exchanging it for Fenix3 as an upgrade, which is not because of crippled navi capabilities of F3.
I hope there will be Fenix4 or similar product with full map support and they will exchange Epix for it.
So assist means, they confirm the reported issues and do nothing…!? Or assists mean, they offer you to change the epix for a f3 etc.
It means pretty much the same as any other company. Their support desk is authorized to assist you in troubleshooting/etc… Whether or not they can ultimately fix your specific issues is aside from the point.
That’s compared to a non-supported product where if you were to call in they’d say ‘Sorry, that product is no longer supported.’
It’s actually pretty unusual for a tech company to offer to swap products out for a totally different model (not the same type).
They can assist for example tell you how to reset device or if you have guarantee they can swap it for new (or wrist strap etc)
Yeah i wrote everywhere but garmin seems do not care :(
Bluetooth sync very slow: how is sync time with you of an activity from Epix with bluetooth to Garmin Connect Mobile app ON IPHONE? Mine takes around 15 minutes for a 10 kilometer run. Friends with Fenix 3 to iphone sync in 1 minut. Same for friends with Epix to Android phone.
I guess you have a problem with your phone. Mine sychronises 10km run I don’t know but less than 30 seconds.
I can tell you that it synchronizes 100km bike ride (say 4 hours or so) for less than a minute. The longest I had synchronized is 10 hours bike ride, it took may be a couple of minutes
Ray any idea? Bluetooth sync very slow. Friend has the same issue (Epix – bluetooth – Garmin Connect Mobile – IPhone). I even reset my iPhone and deleted everything on it. Installed iPhone as new and only put Garmin Connect Mobile on it. Same issue. Tried it on a few other iphones in the house. Same issue. Today received a brand new Epix through Garmin Support. Still the same issue. 10k run syncs in around 15 minutes.
Yeah, that’s super-slow. It may be an issue with your phone. I hear/see about that about once a year, where someone will try syncing with the phone and either get numerous drop-outs or just odd issues.
In all those cases, the person went to the Apple Store and when they swapped/repaired the phone it fixed it. As if something was broken on the BT/comms chip causing retries.
Again, super-rare, but it is something I’ve heard of before.
Must say by the way that after all the software updates and albeit some missing nice to haves, like working with basecampmobile, having wifi, use the entire screen, somewhat faster map-refresh, the Epix is a good working stable watch!
Hi Ray. In the meantime I have a, as mentioned, a new Epix AND I switched iPhone so also have a new iPhone. Problem of extremely slow sync Epix – bleutooth – Garmin Connect Mobile remains. Pretty amazing I would say! If you or anyone has any suggestions, these would be very welcome
Ron – I have the same experience as you with slow Bluetooth. I periodically get interested in trying to fix it (after contacting Garmin and having received replacement watches, but no technical support). I tried again today to fix it, and came across this thread. I often experience 30+ minute syncs due to my longer activities (sometimes up to 10 hours). Anyway, Ray mentioned on May 27 at 6:11 that he hears about this once per year… and that it was an issue with the phone itself… that it is super-rare. My experience is with the regular iPhone 5… but Ray’s comment made me decide to do a test. Rather than get my iPhone “fixed,” I tried with my wife’s iPhone 5c. Same thing – hours to sync 3 days worth of rides. I gave up, deciding that it doesn’t have anything to do with the phone. On other forums, I’ve thrown out the question about slow syncing – and people have mentioned that they have experienced this with Android as well. Like Ray says, not everyone experiences this – saying that their Epix syncs in just a minute or so. I’ve had this issue with 3 different Epix watches, so I find it hard to believe it is a hardware issue. Quite confused, but still (perhaps stupidly) optimistic that Garmin will release a update that addresses the 3 major bugs: 1) Slow Bluetooth Sync 2) Elevation and Barometer issues 3) Screen Lock becomes disabled when pushing any button….
Hi. Brian
Thanks for your reply. I said to myself live with it and sync wired albeit I still really do not understand. Also tried even 4 iphones en 2 epix but the issue remains. Still hope though that a garmin connect mobile app update or whatever will fix it.
Just wanted to say Ray that you lost me when you didn’t review the Epix. I used to read your blog religiously almost daily. Loved the mixture of your reviews and personal/paris/flying stories. Now I meander to it once a month or so.
Your reviews (as you say) are also ‘instruction manuals’. I saw that you were using the Epix for a while, I am sure you could have written the review.
You could have helped a lot by reviewing and saying the truth, the Epix needs a lot of help
Epix needs software update….
I’m sorry, but I simply can’t review everything. There are both great and poor products that I don’t review. For example, I’ve never reviewed the wildly popular Garmin Edge 520 (or the FR20, Edge 20, Edge 25, Varia Vision, Varia Lights, or umpteen other Garmin products)
As for Epix, I said more times than I can possible count in the comments here I didn’t like it.
“I saw that you were using the Epix for a while, I am sure you could have written the review.”
I could have done lots of things. But it’s death by a thousand cuts. I could drop one thing to do another. But then something else gets dropped. Is that something else more or less important? Do I stop answering comments (like this)? Or do I not answer the other umpteen e-mails I answered today? Or perhaps I don’t track down the answers to a company on behalf of a question for someone. Or just simply don’t write other posts in order to do a post that by comparison very few people cared about.
Everything takes time. What may seem like a minute (or an hour, or a day), means that other things don’t happen. That’s reality. Sometimes reality sucks.
It is ok, that you don’t like the epix and didn’t review it- but that you could have told the waiting people early and clear, that there will be no review from you. If I remember correctly, you told us, you are busy with other projects, work…but not, that there will be no review.
I think you got informations from garmin about the epix “future”, that you you weren’t allowed to share with us.
Ray,
You are in a leadership position in sports technology. Your reviews can make or break products. as a ‘critic’ you can and do influence the future of these products. there s a reason you are a keynote speaker at industry conferences. All the above is a compliment.
Epix is (was…) a groundbreaking product, clearly not executed as it should (though on many facets well executed). I returned mine because no SW/FW version didn’t crash for me but the HW seemed to have it all (no wifi but who cares)
It’s a product that if was well executed is game changing true value to the off road runner, hikers and bikers (and damn good for onroad)
Now we all saw for a few months that you were using the epix in many many activities. You had to collation of data needed for a review…
I don’t get the problem here. If this was a paid, firewalled site I might understand in that you would be paying for a service and reasonably expect that service to include a full review of the Epix.
This website is however free, and Ray is free to allocate his limited time to those reviews he things best. You might not agree with it but if so, just do you research elsewhere. There a plenty of reviews in the comments here, on YouTube and other blogs.
If you still need a review, read the Fenix 3 review, disregard any comments about updated running dynamics that came with the firmware about 4-5 months ago, and then just image a Fenix 3 with maps. Bingo, there you have it.
If i would be Ray, i would write short comparison review of Fenix3 and Epix. There are nuances that are making these watches different.
For example, on Fenix 3 you CANT show preloaded track without active navigation and on Epix you can. ABC widget is different. Altimeter software works different on Fenix3. There could be section with basic route drawing and importing them to Epix. Some demo about navigating with Epix (both active like on Fenix3 and passive way)
There is lack of v2 running metrics. You cant use interval workouts programs properly because they dont work. Mapping capabilities are obvious.
It could help people choose right watch.
It won’t happen because: 1) Ray is no ultra runner nor hiker and he is not target of this watch and 2) Epix has so many bugs that revealing them would be pain for Garmin.
“It is ok, that you don’t like the epix and didn’t review it- but that you could have told the waiting people early and clear, that there will be no review from you. If I remember correctly, you told us, you are busy with other projects, work…but not, that there will be no review.”
I really don’t think that far ahead. I look at products today and believe I’ll review most of them. Eventually time passes and new things come along and things don’t get reviewed that I had planned to review. I’m always fascinated with how overthought some people think through things.
“I think you got informations from garmin about the epix “future”, that you you weren’t allowed to share with us.”
I’ve never hard information regarding Epix futures that I haven’t shared. Why wouldn’t I? There’s no upside to doing so for me. One could argue, I’d want to share as much as possible, since that would make you more likely to come back here.
“Now we all saw for a few months that you were using the epix in many many activities. You had to collation of data needed for a review…”
It’s not always about collecting data. I have tons of data on many products I’ve never reviewed. Collecting data is quite frankly the easy part.
Writing up something, gathering photos, and covering numerous scenarios and quirks is what takes time. In fact, I even published lots of Epix data and tracks for those that don’t remember: link to dcrainmaker.com
“It won’t happen because: 1) Ray is no ultra runner nor hiker and he is not target of this watch and 2) Epix has so many bugs that revealing them would be pain for Garmin.”
Why would I care what’s a pain for Garmin? I’m pretty sure I’m a pain on a daily basis to them in what I write. I talk about bugs all the time in product reviews, every review actually (look no further than last week). But alas, as I’ve learned – people don’t usually read what I write…
No offense DCR. I don’t know reality of well known tech blogger, so i thought that you have some non written rules to gain access to new gear or for example to backstage on tech fairs etc. I always read your reviews very deeply, sometimes few times :) i see that you sometimes write about few found bugs in gear.
In #1037 you told us that garmin told you something different, but this was in march and garmin seems not to care about, what they have said before…
I can only tell you what they tell me. I ask questions, they gave me one line answers. Some groups give me more detailed answers, some groups less detailed answers. In March, that’s what they said regarding Epix (that they’d release another bug related firmware). Four months later, that hasn’t happened yet. :-/
(Side note: I deleted two random spam-like comments that came in after this from an unknown thingy. I don’t think they were actual users, but just SPAM with links, but if they were yours and you had something logical to say beyond SPAM to a random unrelated site…feel free to post again – sorry!).
Patience. After one year exclusively using my Garmin epix for training, races, daily activity tracking (even tracking sleep periodically), travelling through France and Italy using the purchased Garmin maps for both North America and Europe: I am about to quit.
My complaints? Aside from the lack of feature updates (I am looking at you Gen 2 Running Dynamics) a couple of annoying bugs have just become unbearable for me: Losing my Daily Activities especially the step counts. This is really such a small thing, but over time after repeatedly losing data and in the end also losing those meaningless Garmin Connect Challenges. Updates process bugs, especially the Timezone maps that continually show up in Garmin Express, even after multiple installs and removals: Enough is enough.
I guess if the watch had just been stable I could have lived with (and did for over a year) the gigantic size, the lack of updates and new features. If Garmin’s tech support had been more consistent with communication and able to actually help me resolve these issues that would have gone a long way to improving my customer experience. I especially like the note where they use my own willingness to “send anonymous user data to Garmin” against me by saying that part of the rationale for not updating features on the watch is that user data suggests that epix owners aren’t using the watch this way…
In the end the watch simply proved too frustrating to keep.
I am only one customer, which Garmin has lost, no big deal. What did I lose? My patience.
By the way, thanks for your efforts Ray, I appreciate the humor and patience you have shown especially in the epix comment section of your site!
Hey Ray,
never mind, it is a unprofessional behavior from garmin, how they treat the (few) remaining epix users and how they continue their “sound of silence” about the (future of the ) epix.
They should directly tell the people, that the update process for the epix has ended and take it from sale and put it in the archive on the garmin homepage….
i was checking out this watch because the discounts are so steep and reading these comments i’m beginning to see why!
given the big price drop, i am looking at this to use just as a running watch because of a) it’s durability and b) battery life. the mapping is not really something i will need to use much.
so if i am going to use it just for running (and assuming the price is right) are the firmware bugs and general performance issues manageable or should i just steer clear?
thanks guys and thanks Ray for your hard work. it amazes me how you can cover all this stuff, communicate with your readers, train as much as you do and still function as a day-to-day human!
Have owned one for well over a year – have used it for activity tracking, running (50-90 miles/week), racing and navigation and wear it 24/7. It’s very durable and in my experience 99% bug free. Very happy with it.
thanks Julian!
i just killed my 225 when i went for a tumble during a trail run, so this sounds perfect (bugs aside).
appreciate the feedback
Interval training function does not work on mine. I don’t know if you use it for interval training. I would if I could get it to work.
Mapping really is the only reason to get this device. Unless you need BP altitude, even something like the 230/630 would probably be a better bet. Plus, there are numerous elevation bugs on the Epix that will never be fixed. Certainly the 920 would do everything you’d want and still be supported by Garmin. Purely for running where mapping doesn’t matter, I’d take my 630 over my Epix any day. The only time I ever wear my Epix is for trail runs on unfamiliar trails. So unless you are saving significant money over one of these other devices, even a heavily discounted Epix isn’t a great deal.
That said, for running on unknown trails in the mountains, I do like having the maps. But I still wear my 630 for better accuracy and reliability.
Yes, only if you want/need detailed maps on your watch, the epix is the right choise. For a 24/7 use, it is to bulky and ugly – but for a real outdoor watch, this don`t matter. If you get one for 200$, it is ok, but be aware, that there will be no bug fix update (for the many existing and by garmin known bugs) anymore. It´s a shame, that garmin has declared this watch as a lame duck (but they haven´t communicate this officially yet).
Maybe garmin will surprise us…but the few remaining epix users and the poor poor sales numbers (?), don´t make me confident.
and be aware, the epix fw is on the level of the 3.10 fw of the fenix 3 (scroll down…)
link to www8.garmin.com
In the meantime there have been many many fw updates for the f3 with new features/bug fixes…
If you do some seroius running and want to use interval workouts feature, you have to know that it is broken and doesent work correct. Devs and Garmin knows about it and dont give a damn. I ran with it few ultras, dozens of marathons and many many sub 20-30K runs.
Take it ONLY if you need mapping while running like me. If not consider F3 if you need altimeter or simply FR230 if not.
thanks for the additional comments guys. this is very helpful
the maps will be of use to me. i do alot of travel and am often running in unfamiliar territory so the maps will be handy but intervals are important to me so this might be a deal breaker
the discount i am seeing in some places is close to half off, but i think after your comments i might get my hands on one and have a closer look.
If you can pre-plan routes, something like the 735, 920, or Fenix 3 would almost certainly be better bets even for unfamiliar areas. On those, you can create routes that you can follow. They just wouldn’t show any roads or trails beyond the route line you created. And all of those devices should handle workouts without problem. The 230/630 do not have any mapping (even bread crumb) functionality.
Plus they’ll show the bread crumb trail of where you’ve been. Plus any of those would work for many people as an every day watch. The Epix really has become a very special purpose device.
I have access to Fenix3 as well and Epix is still better navigation tool. Maps gives context to navigation on routes and you can simply show track on map without navigation. It is good when you plan track on unfamiliar territory and can expect detours and changing trails. You can show multiple tracks in different colors, for example you want to make 15km run but not sure if you can make it and have other track to home which is shorter in different color and have them both.
You can use it to mark roads as well (if know roads which aren’t on your maps, you can draw it as a track in basecamp and then display it in black color in epix on map without navigation)
You had mentioned the 549 version of the Epix does not come with any maps? Does this mean you use up more of the 8gb when you download the same maps that come with the 599 version? I just ordered the 549 version and I didn’t know. I’m concerned that I will be able to get the same amount of maps and use the same amount of space in the end.. or will I also need to pay for them?
Any information would be greatly appreciated. I know this is an old article, but I thought I would try. Thanks.
I assume you’re aware that Garmin has stopped supporting the Epix in any meaningful way. Bugs will not be fixed.
The cheaper Epix probably comes with an (almost useless) basemap. The version I bought came with a 100k topographic map of the US. But it’s more useful to have the more detailed routable maps that you can get derived from OpenStreetMap data, which you can find various places (I like the ones at openmtbmap.org), because the 100k topo maps aren’t routable. There’s no need to buy maps. I have 4 different maps on my Epix at the moment, and 1.2 Gb free.
Hi
At 1st, thanks a lot of your articles.
I read an article in Brian Lucido’s Roper’s Sierra High Route and there’s a picture of Epix around wrist showing a map whilst recharging it with std(?) cable. I haven’t been able to find any article describing how to recharge Epix without booting it. Do you have any information about that?
KR
/mikael
While using epix simply put the cable you always use for connecting it to the computer with the usb in a battery pack en other side to epix. If the standard question if you want to use it as mass storage pops up just answer no. Epix will charge while in use. If you disconnect the cable it will not interupt recording of your workout. Very nice :-)
I think it might have to be in “Garmin” storage mode before it’ll ask. If it’s in “mass” storage mode and the USB cable is carrying the right signals, I think it always switches to disk mode without asking. (My Epix isn’t nearby, so I can’t check the correct terminology.) But you can indeed charge it while it’s recording.
Thanks for the answers. In fact, soon after writing my question I played a little with USB settings and found the same solution you’ve suggested. I used to have Edge 500 which drove me nuts during long haul trips because I needed to spend extra time on pauses to recharge. Without mentioning that I couldn’t get the the whole track in one trip.
I’m pretty sure that it knows if the usb charging cord is connected to a computer or not. If just a normal wall outlet or battery, I don’t think it goes into drive mode.
My Garmin Epix froze a few days ago and I restarted by holding start button for 25sec. Just today I noticed that the date on it did not change and is still displaying the date from 3 days ago. I tried to turn the watch on and off and it did not work. How do I change the date for it to display correctly?
Simplest way is to take it outside and start an activity. When the GPS locks, it’ll set the time and date.
Go into Settings / System / Time / Set Time / Manual go down to Time and set it.
Hmm, rebates usually indicates that a new version is coming up. CES 2017 is in January 2017. They have not updated the Epix since its release in January 2015. A two year cycle sounds logical,… I will wait in January 2017, after the CES, to take a decision to buy or not.
Well, I’m curious, what was it? Did you decide to get an epix?
I am also curious about the people who bought a $1500 fenix 3, now that the updates will end just a few short months after the purchase!
I don’t expect that the fenix 3 will ever be maintained at the fenix 5 level. hah ha ha…
Garmin’s already pretty clear Chornos is getting the Fenix5 software-related updates (excluding things dependent on hardware, such as the new 1-2s 24×7 HR recording). They share the same codebase.
No offense, but it wasn’t hardware incompatibility that stopped the epix updates, it was licensing fees.
I did ask Garmin (the fitness group) again about updates, they informed me again that epix has “very likely” seen its last update.
Licensing fees for what, as a matter of interest? I am not seeing how bug fixes for existing code would be affected by that, nor for that matter things like the V2 running dynamics, which are Garmin’s IP. Or am I wrong to think that?
Some features that were FirstBeat dependent – such as LTHR.
Details here:
link to dcrainmaker.com
Things like Running Dynamics and such are Garmin IP, whereas anything involving heart rate algorithms are generally licensed from FirstBeat.
I am really shocked:
Garmin released epix fw update 3.40!!!!
Go figure…
link to www8.garmin.com
Changes made from version 3.20 to 3.40:
Fixed issue with activity data field setup drawing the incorrect data field layout.
Fixed issue with invalid elevation data being shown for map points with no known elevation data.
Fixed issue with the screen unlocking during activities and after when lock screen was set.
Fixed issues with alarm snooze not working.
Fixed possible crash when too many Connect IQ data fields are installed.
Unfortunately interval timer still not working…
link to youtu.be
Are the mapping facilities better on the Epix than the Fenix 5. Will the Epix show you where to buy a coffee.
thanks
Glad to see another update out on the EPIX. Over the last two years there has been steady improvement of this product. Thanks Garmin for sticking with it and here is why:
A group of experienced mountaineers just used two of your watches to navigate off of Mt. Rainer in a blinding snowstorm. One was my son and Garmin may have saved their lives. How is that for a wearable affirmation. Expect the unexpected and go prepared especially with our changing weather. But again thanks Garmin for your help.
Like John above, I used the Epix to navigate out of a snow storm. It was white-out, and the trail had been covered completely in snow. We post-holed out, and also guided two guys from Korea out. We were prepared enough that we wouldn’t have died, but having a map on our wrist was essential. No amount of map reading skills would have saved you in those conditions!
Cleverley – I don’t have a Fenix 5X, but I really like the touch-screen ability that the Epix has (and 5X doesn’t). Also Epix has a square screen. Although there are more pixels on the 5X, from what I’ve seen, you can view more on the Epix. Finally, yes, the Epix can guide you to coffee (assuming you have the correct map installed). I use Open Street Map, which I just copied from my Garmin Edge Touring (bicycle GPS).
brilliant and thank you for your comment. I am so glad Garmin are taking heed of concerns regarding updates. I will research open street maps on Garmin site.
You’ll better research osm maps on non garmin sites.
great thanks
well just checked garmin uk site and the epix is not even listed! seems to me the big promotion is the fenix 5x but is the mapping as good as the epix?
I’ve been sketching out an Epix vs F5X video, of which I’ll likely shoot over the next week – mostly next week on some hikes.
If there are specific things folks want me to compare side by side in such a video – drop a note below!
If possible please check if the fenix 5x will support garmin custom maps (kmz files) and garmin birdseye images (jnx files) both are supported by the epix. I personally use custom maps a lot with the epix as a way to put raster topo maps on the screen, I could not possibly justify switching to something else regardless of all the added features if I have to give up the support of this type of maps and the touchscreen as well.
It is interesting the speed of map operations in comparison to epix, to move the map in 200m zoom, zoom in/out
Real battery time is also very important
Options to show POI on the map
Compatibility with different maps of course
Possibility to fully operate the watch during charging
The speed of charging
Does Garmin have plans to enable underwater HRM and to enable Bluetooth MP3 from the watch? The last one may be a real deal breaker.
thanks ray i am desperate for mapping info – whether to wait for fenix 5x, keep my existing fenix 3hr or purchase epix2.
There is no epix2 and apparently there will never be (what a pity). I used to upgrade my garmin watch at least once in 2 years to keep it on warranty, now I don’t know what to upgrade it to. As for now F5X doesn’t look like a real improvement, we will see what will be with it. Will wait for Ray’s video and for 5X sale start, may be we will see some changes like MP3 support
Display same map, on same zoom level with three active courses on map in diffirent color (dark magenta, dark cyan, dark red) to se color comparision and screen details.
Also speed of zoom on highest detail on detailed map.
You can also compare speed of calculating simple route.
Thanks Ray, I love wild running and often work around the world. I am looking for my Garmin to give me the ability to navigate trails and roads anywhere. The Epix looks pretty dated now but maps are vital, really interested to hear your views.
Hi Have you posted the video? I cannot find it. It would be really interesting to see them both in operation side to side with a focus on maps
Epix2??
Send me any thing about garmin epix
I was wondering if you can connect foreflight to it. It is a pilot app. Thank you.
This is a heck of a long shot, but what size watch band would I need for this epix? I can’t find any info anywhere
22 mm between the flanges. I trimmed a bit off each side of a fenix 3 strap which is 26 mm. Good luck