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Do I need to buy a brand-new crankset to send to 4iiii? Or something that I installed last year is also acceptable?
It does not need to be a new crank.
Any news on the PowerTap G4 disc-brake hub or something similar? Shown at EB18, then PT was bought by SRAM, then some hints that they may still be working on bringing it to market, but nothing for a while. A hub-based power meter would be by far the best option for me, but I believe the only current option is the G3 disc version, which is outdated and uses a proprietary disc rotor.
Nuttin that I’ve heard. SRAM is a notoriously conservative company when it comes to testing. I don’t know of any brand that tests products as long as they do. Almost always behind the scenes first, then slowly with a handful of beta testers you’d never know, then slowly some low-level pros, and then some mid-level pros. I haven’t seen any of those stages happen yet.
That said, Quarq (which technically covers PT’s brands now) inversely hasn’t historically leaked in that matter. So…who knows anymore.g
Quarq has just dropped the price of their spider based power meter on April 2nd.
Power2Max has two sided NGEco power meters, including Rotor crankset, for $590. I just got one.
Power2Max aren’t actually dual-sided though. They’re full coverage of total power, but not truly left/right units.
Really wish these guys luck — heard the 4iii CEO on a podcast somewhere and it’s clear he’s wicked smart, super genuine, not a lick of arrogance. Perhaps that’s a long way of saying he’s Canadian.
But every time I think about these crank PMs it just seems messy v. a pedal based PM. Assiomas are super fugly, but so inexpensive, especially if you can also avoid a (non power) pedal purchase.
The price cuts to cycling electronics are interesting in this environment. Seems evidence demand is dropping off faster than supply chain interruption risks have materialized. Best I can see even trainers are in adequate supply despite “peak” indoor training.
Assiomas are great if you’re into those types of pedals. However, I run Speedplays on road and Eggbeaters on gravel/dirt, so there’s definitely a reason for crank-based PMs.
I’m with Dolan on this one. If you don’t run Look/Keo pedals, pedal-based meters are going nowhere. Which means anybody that races CX is sticking with crank arm meters or something else. As are mountain bikers. In full disclosure, I’m a Crank Brothers lifer and my 4iiii meter has been great for my needs. But I don’t race TT and I also don’t have as tight a requirement for my training.
There have been a number of people over on Weight Weenies who have converted Assiomas for us off-road by swapping out the stock pedal bodies with Xpedo CXR MTB pedals.
Yes, but the price goes thru the roof. Not a budget option anymore
Why does the price go through the roof?
But you know what *is* sold out? the low-end stuff. Took me a while to find a Tracx Flow… Plenty of the top end models around. I think the market might be hungry for affordable power meters… I know I’ve been in the “wait until the $300 price point sees a little action” camp…
Hello,
Is any of the two brands (4iiii or Stages) left side option better if using oval chainrings? Or is this causing a mess anyway?
I don’t believe either brand actually supports oval rings, but happy to be wrong there. The list of brands that do support oval rings (and have been proven to truely support it, and not just having marketing claims stating such) is very small.
Power2Max, Rotor, and Favero (maybe more) all claim to support oval chainrings.
Hi Ray,
It seems like the Podiiiium range has been sold out on the 4iiii site for quite some time, predating COVID-19 shutdowns (outside of Hubei, anyway).
Do you know if they’re dropping this line, or preparing a replacement, or something else? Thanks.
Podiiiium hasn’t been dropped, and we hope to be offering it again soon. Working through a few constraints at the moment.
I personally like precision. I like the simple replaceable battery. You can throw a coin in the seat pack and never worry.
I have a Giant power meter, garmin vector 3 pedals, and a 4iii precision on my xt cranks. The giant app is terrible, I mean really bad. On my 2nd set of vectors and my 3rd set of end caps. So, the garmin pedals have had some issues.
The 4iii ride ready was put on and works perfect. I think they way understate the battery life, because I have a ton of hours on the 4iii and haven’t changed the battery yet.
I talked to pro athlete trainer and they told me that 99% of the riders out there don’t need dual sided, and after looking at my data I agree. I am almost 50/50 power on my dual sided devices. The only time it changes is when I am riding super easy. The moment I start riding even slightly harder it quickly goes 50/50.
I plan on buying another xt8000 4iiii and a grx 4iii in the near future.
I thought I would be swapping out my xtm8000 4iiii to my other bikes when I wanted to use it, but its just too much of a hassle to swap it every time you want to ride a different bike.
Thanks Wriley.
Thanks for the update @Wriley, I’ve been thinking about Podiiiium as it’s one of the few power meters that is compatible with Campy Record.
I’ve had a Podiiiium for quite a while and it has worked flawlessly on Campy Super Record crank. Just battery replacement.
The downside with precision is that it IS possible to damage the battery cover. It happened to me once in a crash. One of the jolding notches broke off. Unfortunately it was quite damp and by the time I got home, moisture had managed to seep in. Although i opened it to let it dry, electronics started to develop a problem over the next couple of months until it died.
I know it is a freakish and marginal case, but can happen.
But yeah ride-ready Podiiiium has not been very available
Not sure how freakish that is because a similar thing happened to me, and I didn’t even crash. I was trying to pass some rail road tracks not at a road/trail crossing point and I must have hit the crank arm to the rail in *just* the right fashion that it knocked the battery cover and battery loose and it fell out. I didn’t even notice at the time (save for a beep from the garmin, but that thing is always beeping so I ignored it). I didn’t realize until an hour later that it was missing. At this point I had no idea where I might have lost it. I tried to look at my power data on my ride on my phone to see where it dropped the power but the phone is no good for pinpointing the location. So I went home and looked on my laptop to try to pinpoint the location and then drove back there and searched in the dark with faint hope of finding it. Luckily I found it, and it seemed to still be in fully working condition! The little notches on the outside that a human would use to rotate and open the battery cover were a little damaged but it seems to be fine. It’s been a year (and I’ve certainly ridden in wet conditions since then so waterproofing seems intact) and the 4iiii meter still closely matches my tacx neo so it does indeed seem fine.
Hi mjciv,
We are happy to let you know that we now have Podiiiium available and ready to ship.
Simillary with my 4iii ,I don’t think it is ”Marginal” …..i will never buy Power Meter with replacement batery ….unless it cos t max 100 usd
(now Assioma , since 1 year it works Ok, i am looking for cheap Mtb Power Meter but see no sensible options…..)
Why is the SRM x-power spd 3months delayed? Because of the Covid-19 and supply side, or accuracy/fuctionality issues?
Pretty sure this delay at this point is COVID-19 related. The team working on it is in Italy. They were super close to sending me a unit in late Jan/early Feb, “days away”, and then things got messy.
It looks like 4iiii has finished transitioning to the latest Shimano cranksets for what they support (105 R7000, Ultegra R8000, Dura-Ace R9100). For all of these cranksets, any power meter directly attached to the right side is going to be suspect, right?
Correct.
Any idea if GRX crank arms are any better?
I (obviously) haven’t set sent my RX810s off yet, but Shimano has thankfully gone back to a symmetrical four-arm crank design with their GRX cranksets. Hopefully that resolves the driveside powermeter issues for the future. I’ll know soon enough I guess.
It’ll be interesting to see whether the upcoming generation of Dura-Ace returns to a more classic design.
I haven’t read up on this thouroughly. So the culprit withe these cranset was thought to be the asymetrical BCD design?
If Favero wants to get the market crazy, they just have to sell their powermeter with SPD pedals.
Gravel guys and road users wich use SPD for compatibility with their other bikes would go crazy.
My hesitation is damaging the pedals. My crankset lasts for years. But, especially on an MTB, I abuse pedals. Are the electronics, nevermind the bearings, going have a fairly short lifespan?
Just a hunch, but I think the reason we haven’t seen SPD powermeters is over manufacturers’ fears of MTB riders expecting them to survive pedal strikes, when most of the actual demand would come gravel riders or even road riders who detest walking in Look/SPD-SL pedals.
As someone riding with flat pedals this is great news, seriously considering this now. Does make the bike swapping (from the n+1 virus) somewhat difficult.
Am I being naive to think there will ever be a flat pedal power meter?
I suspect the variety of twist-in adapters will blossom after SPD power meter pedals are available.
If you can do with all of your crank arms being the same length, just use Shimano cranks. All mostly-current left arms are compatible with all mostly-current right-sides. I made the mistake of not getting 175mm Ultegra cranks and am now kicking myself b/c then I could swap a 175mm Ultegra arm to both of my XT-fitted mountain bikes if I had the foresight. Or vice-versa.
Yeah great point Fred, a couple of my current bikes do share same Shimano 105 crankset so these bikes could be swapped around – not a 2 minute job, but very doable.
Yeah @GLT – gotta say thats what I’ve been waiting for, starting to get a little impatient and wanting to get a PM soon.
So hard to justify a single sided arm versus pedals like the Assiomas. DA crank is $450 and likely not accurate per GPLama’s site. Tough sell. My Favero Duos were $530 at Clever Training.
Don’t want to throw shade on a positive announcement but I honestly believe the most important thing here is the 3 year warranty extension. 1 years is simply not enough.
There is something strange going on with either the bonding cement or the strain gauge in these 4iiii devices. 3 of us all all bought left leg Precision PM’s in early-mid 2017 and all of them had the strain gauge suddenly report inaccurate power then quickly die 18-24 months later. We all ended up with identical expensive cadence sensors sending precisely zero watts to our head units.
4iiii to their credit replaced 2 out of the 3 even though they were out of 1 years warranty.
Its easy to find our 4iiii dead strain gauge experience repeated many times across forums on the internet. 18 months seems to be the standard minimum life before the strain gauge dies.
A 3 years warranty is the minimum I would consider before purchasing another one
Its a real shame as, when they work, these PM’s really are super accurate and seem to have good firmware that removes some of the crazy spikes I’ve seen on competitor units.
+1 from me. Mine also died, luckily mine was within warranty.
The question I had though was: does the warranty extension apply to already sold units or only units being sold going forward?
Huh, I have 3 (3 different generations of Precision) and only gen 2 has had issues, but with the battery contact, not the strain gauge. Glad to know they honor a warranty (and then some). So far they seem like a stand-up company,
I was an early adopter and I’ve had no problems at all.
The new 3 year warranty is back-dated to existing units that were sold starting January 2018 forward.
Ray,
I want to know when your first novel will be out. Anyone that can write and edit with your speed could be cranking out books so fast a publisher couldn’t keep up.
I know it’s not very pro, but I’ve got a nine-speed setup and so I’m just using current generation sora groupset. It works fine for me and I’m not a real racer or anything, so I don’t have any particular plans to upgrade, but at that price point power meters are starting to look interesting for training— is there anyone who’s able to put one on lower end Shimano stuff?
I’d also like to know whether this can be installed on a “lower level” crank arm. I’m primarily a runner but as I’ve gotten older(smarter) I’m learning that I can swap some easy runs for longer bike rides and save the pounding on the body. I live in Florida so I’ve found 2×9 Sora will work fine for my needs.
As far as I know, as long as the back of the crank arm is flat, there shouldn’t be any limit to which aluminum cranks it can be put on. Carbon is another story, since the layups vary quite a bit.
Right-side power is easy with Shimano because Hollowtech II has been ubiquitous for years. No reason you couldn’t run a “ride ready” 4iiii (or Stages or whatever) 105 non-driveside crankarm powermeter on an existing Tiagra or Sora crankset. Just make sure the crankarms are the same length.
Warranty support on my 4iii precision 105 cranks has been great. Had a couple go faulty including most recently 3 years since purchase. No issues replacing them, great service but also feel like others should be doing for something so expensive (relative to most other bike bits) that get limited use
Apparently you’ll be receiving an IQ2 soon…
link to facebook.com
He should already…
if anyone is looking at dual sided powermeters 4iiii is probably the only one that does it on non shimano cranks.
I emailed stages support to ask if they do LR installs on non shimano cranks and they said that it’s only available on shimano cranks. maybe that’ll change in the future but for now it looks like 4iiii is my best option to get a PM on my sram force1x cranks (aside from quarq).
Since it was April 1 and you had a power meter post, I decided to check out the Limits FB page. :-) They are actually responding to people. Crazy! They said they are releasing Limits Gen2 end of Q1 2020. Would assume that is going to slip because, well, Limits being Limits. And Covid. But more Limits.
They said they would send one to Ray. That worked out well last time. :-)
Ray, what’s your overall sense of upcoming product releases for the spring/early summer? This would often be a busy launch time in a typical year. Will those launches mostly be delayed indefinitely due to the current pandemic? Or do you still expect major releases in the next month or two?
Obviously the global shutdown hinders development & manufacturing, but it doesn’t seem like a great time to release new recreational products from a marketing perspective either. So I’m guessing everything is on hold.
Any issues with 4iiii dual L/R power and Bluetooth and apps like Zwift on the iPad or AppleTV? Does it combine the left and right into a unified Bluetooth profile, or does it just double one side?
Hi John,
As long as the L/R powermeter has been paired as a dual powermeter, which can be done through the 4iiii App, the data will be received from the master as dual power. Please ensure you are paired to the left-side ID as the master.
Hey Ray,
Clevertraining still doesn’t have the 4iii xt m8000 power meter listed right. They have 170mm and 172.5mm as options. There is no such thing at 172.5 xt crank arm. Soon as they fix this I will buy from the site.
Thanks
Bob
Hi Bob – good catch…and fixed :)
It now shows the correct lengths of 170 and 175. I’m told that the 175 is actually in stock, and with that fix it’ll soon show that if it doesn’t yet already do so. The 170’s are out of stock but they’ve placed an order today to get more inventory in there.
Here’s that link: link to clevertraining.com
Also, if you’re a VIP member you’d even be able to get the 20% off too using the MARCH20 code. :)
Ordered, thanks.
Ray- I know of the power accuracy issues 4iii and stages face for a dual meter, but have not heard anything of just right side only?? I ask because a left side only does not work for me as I am handicapped in my left leg. I currently have a couple of quarq power meters which work well, but like the idea of running a shimano crankset with just a tad bit more weight and this would also be a cheaper option.
Thoughts on right side only? Thanks
Since this deal will probably not last too long, I decided to comment about it here.
You can get factory refurbished Garmin Vector 3 (dual sided) at trisports.com)for $550 today.
This matches the best price I have seen from them since I bought a pair at this price a couple of months ago. I got them and they are working perfectly. Seems like a good deal.
back when the Fliiight was announced there was talk of being an upgrade path for current owners of the big orange units etc… unless I missed it did that ever materialize?
I know I have seen very little in my inbox from them recently, and have some cash I would love to drop on the module vs buying a whole new trainer.
Hi Graham, we will be offering Fliiiiight upgrades for existing STAC Zero riders in the coming weeks that will include the upgraded Fliiiight resistance unit and utilize your original STAC frame. Stay tuned for details.
Thanks!
What’s the best way to find out about these? I have some wellness cash I need to spend.
Has anyone done the factory install on Sram Crank? I’m thinking about it for my Sram Red 22 crankset but have been able to find any reviews or experiences about it
FWIW, I have been very happy with my 4iiii, zero complaints. My Praxis Zayante crankset came equipped with a left-sided 4iiii PRECISION which has worked perfectly. Just pop in a new coin battery a few times per season (which takes 30 seconds – it also reports on remaining battery life to the wahoo bolt and my iphone so you know when it is almost time). Numbers seem accurate when compared to my kickr (only other power source I have), and after nearly three years of hard use including lots of pouring rain my 4iiii still works like new. Always pairs up fast. I like to use SPD cleats so crank based power seemed a decent way to go.
Anyone got a 4iii left PM on a decathlon btwin/van rysel carbon frame (ultra cf) ? This or any other model of the same frame :link to decathlon.fr
Checking the clearance specs, it looks like it shouldn’t fit by ~1-2mm but I’m interested if anyone got it ?
Thanks !
forgot to add an illustrating pic…
Hi Thomas, we also received your email regarding your clearance question, and asked for a second picture just to check further, but you should be good for a Factory Install, Ride Ready TBD.
Do the 4iiii left side PM’s crazily spike, like the Stages if you descend left foot forward?
Hi Ron,
You should not see spikes while descending left foot forward.
Wriley, I routinely had spikes up to 8000 watts, descending on my MTB, with Stages L leg power meters. I quit using them for that reason. I thought it might just be the nature of a crank arm PM. I figured that the hits coming through your feet, while standing with L foot forward, would move the strain gauges in the PM, just like pedaling in the correct direction? Does the 4iiii PM have some way to eliminate the “foot bounce” spiking?
Hi Ron,
The fundamental inputs of crank arm based power meter measurement requires torque which is a factor of a strain gauge response and crank arm length and rotational velocity (cadence measured in RPM). The PRECISION power meter requires a minimum of 30 RPM to generate a power number in watts so standing or bouncing on a PRECISION power meter will not generate data spikes or give a power measurement because you are not turning the cranks.
Thanks, Wriley! That’s make a lot of sense, especially for those of us using PMs on MTB and gravel bikes. Definitely, will look at 4iiii, with next purchase.
What are by options of installing a power meter using stages or 4iiii for dur ace 7800.
Hope someone can provide some information.
Hello Kieran,
Unfortunately, the 7800 is too narrow for our latest powermeters, so we have stopped doing installations on that crank.
You can purchase any of the Shimano Ride Ready cranks to replace the left crank arm, or you can also replace the complete crankset with our PRECISION PRO (dual) Ride Ready cranks in 105 R7000, Ultegra R8000, or Dura-Ace 9100.
I must be missing something obvious but why are there different versions at different prices for the 105/R8000/Dura-Ace “ride-ready versions” since they are all Hollowtech ii based ? Which means the Sora and Tiagra should work too ? Thanks !
“ride ready” means that you buy a new crank with the power meter installed. The price difference is mostly because Dura-ace left crank is more expensive than 105, for example.
“Factory install” is when 4iiii installs power meter on your existing crank. And there the price is the same for all supported crank models. Note that the price for left-side Ride-ready 105 Precision is THE SAME (in the US) if you buy it ride ready or factory install it on your crank. Effectively it is cheaper (you don’t have to ship your crank to them) and less hassle just to buy ride ready :-).
As for Tiagra or Sora, you should reach out to 4iiii to ask about compatibility and if they can install their power pod on your Tiagra or Sora. But again – what’s the point if it will be just cheaper to buy a ride ready 105 crank. (unless you are bothered by aesthetics of having a different left crank) .
Hi Raoul,
Ride Ready comes installed on a new Shimano left crank arm. The price different comes from the model of Shimano crank (105, Ultegra, Dura-ace).
Factory Installed powermeters are installed on your existing crank arm.
Our powermeters are not compatible with Shimano Tiagra or Sora, but swapping out the left crank arm with a Ride Ready Shimano 105 will work as long as you don’t mind the mismatched crankset.
Ray,
Have you, or anyone else, done a review of the dual-sided Podium on either the Campagnolo Record or Super Record powermeter cranksets? Okay, I know you haven’t published a review of said product, but have you at least had one in your hands to test, experiment with, or compare??
I ask because I can’t seem to find one and I’m curious if the carbon cranksets from Campagnolo exhibit any of the deficiencies associated with the Shimano cranksets. Also, I do remember a time where 4iiii would only offer their powermeters on the aluminium Potenza crankset and am curious how the carbon versions compare to that one too.
Needless to say, reviews of any of the 4iiii crankset powermeters are rather hard to come by and I’m very loathe to try such a product on blind faith. Until then, I’ll continue to stick with my Campagnolo 11-speed P2M.
4iiii won’t do anything to help customers past the 3 year warranty. My power meter just stopped working without explanation one day, and 4iiii refuses to even take it because I’m literally a few months past the warranty date. Many companies will still refurbish a faulty product even if they make you pay for the service past the warranty date, but I guess not 4iiii Innovations.
I rescind this comment – it was a miscommunication via my dealer. 4iiii is great :)
Review coming on the new 4iiii Precision 3?
Second this. Is there a review coming? I’m hesitant to buy a new PM that has not been tested by you, Ray.
Seems like a complete overhaul, electronics shrunk quite a bit and 800hrs battery sounds pretty interesting.
Or are you on it and there are problems? Thank you and keept up the work! Regards
a review is also on my wishlist. I hope with the next firmware all primary issues will be solved.