For the first time in approximately ever, I’m actually excited about an SRM product and where the company is heading. Here, right off the top of this post without a wordy intro, in a mere three bullets I’ll explain why:
1) It’s actually priced appropriately and competitively in the market
2) It doesn’t involve Look’s engineering work, for which the SRM EXAKT pedals were based on (to significant fault)
3) It’s unique in the market and could be the first shipping product in the category (MTB power meter pedals, also applicable to gravel and cross as well)
And that’s about it. That’s roughly all you need to know.
Oh, I guess, I mean…sure…there’s a bit more. Like specs and stuff I suppose. So let’s talk about those.
The Specs:
The SRM X may well be the first power meter pedal for mountain bikers once it gets to market later this year. Though, I suppose that title will depend a bit on whether IQ2 can get there first or not with their altered-course Kickstarter project. But, I’m going to presume SRM will win this battle, if only for the reason they’ve been actively testing and riding their pedal since earlier this year. Plus, power meter experience and all that.
But again, let’s focus on some quick specs first, since that’s the good stuff:
Price: 1,000EUR
Availability: Dec 2019ish
Pedal Compatibility: SPD (MTB)
Stated Accuracy: +/- 1%
Protocols: Dual ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart
Battery Life: 80 hours
Weight: 165g per pedal
Look Involved: Nope de Nope.
Now as I alluded to earlier and directly in the line above, this pedal is an SRM-only venture. Meaning that the SRM EXAKT pedal that came out last summer was in partnership with Look. The challenge there was that they adopted Look’s method of installation and calibration, which required special tools, boatloads of finicky time, and enough patience to not throw the bike at incoming bus traffic.
But that’s gone with the mountain bike variant. SRM has transitioned to an install process that mirrors normal pedals: Crank them on…and done. Just like Favero Assioma, Garmin Vector, and the PowerTap pedals. No fancy tools, no funky apps, nothing. Just twist on. They’re able to do that by adding in an accelerometer and gyro, which also lets them ditch the magnets of the SRM EXAKT pedal (magnets were used to determine rotation of the spindle, and thus used for cadence and ultimately power output).
Next, just like the SRM EXAKT pedals, it contains active temperature compensation in it (in fact, the newer crankset SRM Origin units finally also now have temperature compensation in them, alongside dual ANT+/BLE). The importance of that is realistically less meaningful in mountain biking where you’re often stopping and starting pedaling, whereas in road cycling it’s a huge deal for anyone that’s done long climbs up mountain passes where the temperature shifts dramatically and you don’t stop pedaling.
From a battery standpoint, the pedals are slated for 80 hours, and use a magnetic charging adapter to charge each pedal individually. Unlike the EXACT pedals, I’m told they’ll actually include two of the charging adapters in the box. So you know, you can actually charge your two pedals at the same time.
Like SRM’s head units, it’ll come in a slate of colors. I’m told the same list of colors as the SRM PC8 is available, which…is a lot of colors. The reason is more simplistic though: The pedal spindle easily (with a tool) slides out of the pedal body. The entire thing is self-contained in the spindle: Battery, communications electronics, strain gauges, small villagers, everything. That means you can buy different colored pedal bodies and swap around. So perhaps you have two dramatically different color-schemed mountain bikes, this solves any sort of fashion faux-pas.
The whole thing is housed inside that stainless steel tube there, which SRM says they’ve gone through dozens of test variants on to find just the right materials and construction that’s able to withstand the horrible life that is being a mountain bike pedal. The company’s engineers have been riding the pedals since earlier this year out on real trails with real mountain bikes.
Note that it’s likely we’re going to see a pile of SPD power meter pedals, as my understanding from multiple people is that Shimano’s SPD patent expired earlier this year. Something that Google seems to confirm.
Like with the SRM’s road pedals, this will transmit ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart, and power balance (left/right balance) for both. It won’t do the recently opened up Cycling Dynamics, but I suspect there’s less interest in the mountain bike segment anyway for that.
Now, of course, I haven’t tested these pedals yet. Be it on a trainer or out in the wilds of rough terrain and hitting against rocks, trees, and small gnomes. That’ll come at some point down the road, likely towards the end of the year when they’re set to start shipping. So things could go horribly wrong when I actually try and use them and compare them to other power meters on the same bike.
The shipping plan sounds like it’s December, but I got a bit of a feeling from talking to multiple people at SRM that might also be more like a January or so. I don’t think there’s an appreciable difference between those two for the sport of mountain biking in most snowy markets.
Wrap-Up:
As I said at the beginning – I’m actually reasonably excited this could be a turning point product for SRM. By and large the company hasn’t been innovating in the last few years, and as a result, has seen their market share dwindle down to almost nothing in terms of % of new power meter sales – despite having massive brand recognition in the sport. That’s largely been a function of price, but also technologically too.
However, the SRM X seems to be on the right path towards redemption. From a first look standpoint they’ve gotten rid of the parts of the technology that were weighing down the product, while focusing on simplicity in setup. The ability to swap pedal bodies easy is appealing from a breakage standpoint but also just from a cosmetic standpoint – plus, nobody else has that. But of course, the biggie on the ‘nobody else has’ front is simply a mountain bike pedal based power meter. As noted earlier on, IQ2 has shown one on their new directions campaign, but we don’t know how real that is, nor where they stand in product development and accuracy out on the trails.
But finally – there’s that price. Right now at 1,000EUR (assuming VAT-inclusive), it’s competitive on the European side for sure. If they can match for parity on the USD side ($1,000USD), that would be highly competitive and in line with road-bike power meter pedals (Vector 3 is at $999, though the PowerTap P2 and Favero Assioma pedals are lower priced). Given that SRM stands to be the first to market with this, the slight premium over PowerTap and Favero would be logical. I fear any higher though and they’re likely to lose interest from many riders. Certainly there’s an element of mental price-break math, and $999 is a well established price point break.
With that – I look forward to testing these out when the times comes, hopefully later this year. Thanks for reading!
FOUND THIS POST USEFUL? SUPPORT THE SITE!
Hopefully, you found this post useful. The website is really a labor of love, so please consider becoming a DC RAINMAKER Supporter. This gets you an ad-free experience, and access to our (mostly) bi-monthly behind-the-scenes video series of “Shed Talkin’”.
Support DCRainMaker - Shop on Amazon
Otherwise, perhaps consider using the below link if shopping on Amazon. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases. It doesn’t cost you anything extra, but your purchases help support this website a lot. It could simply be buying toilet paper, or this pizza oven we use and love.
You’re forgetting the fat tire crowd, who live, among other things, for riding in winter when there’s snow. I often see fat tire tracks when I’m out cross country skiing. (As opposed to the old days, when I might see an occasional MTB track, connected to a wallow where the rider went down, followed by a track, followed by another wallow…) Still, they’re probably not the market for these.
So the other day I was grinding up a gravel climb when a whole bunch of underpants gnomes burst out of a cabin, yelling “Profit! Profit!”. I managed to keep ahead of them (they’re gnomes after all) until I crested. Good thing; I hate cleaning my bike.
Haha.
Yeah, I thought about the fat tire crowd when writing that…then I realized the crossover of fat tire folks and power meter folks is approximately 6 people…and they all already work for 4iiii.
Ha! I resemble that remark… I have had a powermeter on my fatbike since I have had a fatbike (>10y now)… Starting with a powertap mtb on a pugsley, then a quarq 2×10, then onto a quarq “xx1” on my current bike…
I would be interested in these for my Salsa Beargrease fat bike. I tried a Stages PM on the XX1 crank, but it didn’t clear the chainstays and had to send it back. These would be an ideal solution. While I do ride in snow, I really like the Beargrease in the late fall and early spring when the local mid-west trails are slippery with heavy leaf cover. The fat bike is the only one in the quiver with a PM.
The rare combination may ultimately be fat bikes with clipless pedals in the long run. The larger q-factor causes enough knee pain that I generally unclip when I can, but I would love to have more data from those recreational rides.
Winter is almost long enough to be tempted to switch to platform pedals & non-cleated boots. Even then I’d still love to know what the TSS score could have been.
I’m one of six people! Nothing currently available fits my trek. I’m super excited for this.
I’m also one of the six! I would primarily buy these for my mountain bike, but would love to be able slap these on my fat bike for winter rides in Michigan. Much of the single track around me is groomed in the winter and you aren’t allowed to ride with normal MTB tires because they leave ruts in the snow.
Bless Michigan. The one thing I hate, hate, hate as a skier is when some hiker/runner decides that going up the wonderful set ski tracks that skiers have labored over (no machine grooming where I ski) would be easier than breaking their own trail. This “postholes” the tracks. Then, when you kick to go forward, if the kick area of the ski is above a posthole, no grip and your ski slides back with no forward propulsion. So if you’re on foot with no snowshoes or skis, please stay the hell off ski tracks. As you say, fat bikes aren’t a problem, and a fat tire track is a decent place to put a ski (not quite wide enough for two, maybe you guys should use fatter tires :-)). Snowmobiles make great tracks, but you have to put up with the noise and the smell.
Hey, I’m one of these! Unfortunately SPD is a non-starter for snow riding. Now trying to figure out how to sort something out for 100 mm bottom bracket.
The cheap/easy way with a Stages won’t work; not enough crank/seatstay clearance. And want a powermeter to train extensively on the fatbike to attempt an Ultra event next year.
You might take a look at the Velocomp PowerPod. I have both a PowerPod and an AeroPod and have used them extensively. Since I don’t have a DFPM I can’t say anything about accuracy, but the power numbers seem reasonable enough, and from the comparisons I’ve seen, both by Ray and others, they seem to be pretty accurate. Knowing how it works, it might not handle deep snow entirely correctly, but I assume your Ultra isn’t in the winter. Simple to mount, doesn’t matter what pedals you have, costs much less than a typical DFPM.
The event is indeed in the winter :). I doubt that aero-based PMs give good readings in inconsistent, rough surfaces.
One could say the same of pedal based power meters.
Velocomp actually addressed that issue in firmware. If you look at Ray’s review of the original PowerPod, he found discrepancies on cobbled sections in Paris. They went back and revised the software (using the accelerometer to detect rough sections) and, if I remember right, it seemed to solve the problem, although I don’t think Ray ever published his comparisons. But since I have nothing to compare it to, I can’t say that it actually works, just that the number seem reasonable.
But anyway, a “road” surface that squishes under and adheres to your tires probably isn’t what they had in mind.
I really wish 4iiii required less …. knowing how to do stuff or bike shops involved. This is exciting to me! I have been wanting a simple pedal solution for my gravel bike power. I have a 1x and I really like not having to try to clean anything behind anything if that makes sense. I can just use my non-corrosive baby wipes and a rag and the crank is clean. I can’t say the same for my 2x set up w power, which requires floss and toothbrushes and when it comes to the glue, there goes the ability to use the baby wipes or with the built in 4iii, there’s a bump, which gets in the way of the rag. Anyway my point is that I really like the clearance for cleaning purposes when it comes to my hella dirty bike and I also like that rocks don’t get stuck up in between the crank arm and the frame. So, anyway I’m excited too!!!! Even if it’s for wiener-ish cleaning reasons.
Finally!!! More options for mtb power meters. Competition is always a good thing.
Editing error ‘through throw’
If all of the brains are in the spindle, then presumably SRM could develop a road bike pedal as well? This would mean a user with Road and MTB bikes could get away with only having to invest in one power meter and swap bodies as necessary. That’s got to be a winning gambit for SRM hasn’t it?
That would be genius but I’m guessing unlikely as it means less sales and who puts their sales numbers ahead of their customers? ?
I believe it’s more complex than that, given differences in pedal’s body height, torque distribution, etc. But it sounds like a great idea and, arguably, the best way to make such a versatile product.
Someone just attempted this hack with Favero Assioma spindle and xpedo spd pedal bodies on the trainer road forum:
link to forum.trainerroad.com
wouldn’t cut it for technical MTB riding due to the possibility of damaging the pods but still an awesome idea. The poster said they will primary use them for gravel and light MTB
Or one could just use SPD pedals and high end stiff MTB XC shoes… Problem solved, no fiddling.
I have SPD combination pedals (flat one side, clip the other) on all my bikes. Road shoes, MTB shoes, MTB boots and any other shoes…..just hop on any bike!
These pedals are more than tempting!
I’ve recently “upgraded” my roadbike to SPD pedals as I was fed up slipping (and sometimes falling) with my Look cleats, especially during triathlon transitions.
Any reason why these SPD power meters would not work with road bikes?
Nope, stick ’em on your road bike, gravel bike, cross bike.
After reading recently about how Shimano right side PMs just don’t work this has me super stoked.
I run SPD on all my bikes too. Excited to see an SPD power option – especially since my bike doesn’t want to play nice with a lot of power meters (basically only spider options will work – nothing like 4iiii/Stages/etc that are crank arm based).
I’m another road/gravel rider who switched to so-called “MTB” SPDs many years ago for all my bikes, and refuse to go back. I get why road cleats might be useful for racers, but they are complete crap for rides that involve really any amount of walking. Even to a coffeeshop.
In the past it’s been tough to find powermeters for any combination of specific bottom brackets, 1x/subcompact chainsets, SPD pedals, and disc brake wheels, but it looks like the component manufacturers are finally getting around to the edge cases as those edge cases are now suddenly mainstream.
What about spindle based, like RaceFace or Team Zwatt? I’m using the latter.
More of a general question for Ray’s community, what’s the difference between mountain bike and road pedals other than the obvious cosmetic differences? Or said differently what are the advantages/disadvantages of each different type of pedal on a road/mountain bike? Why are there different types of pedals?
Thanks
SPD MTB pedals:
+ cleats are small enough to be fully recessed in the shoe, allowing for almost normal walking. Small recessed cleat made of metal also mean they are very durable.
– small contact surface, no control of lateral play that I am aware of (you can control clip tightness but careful on MTB)
Look or SPD SL road pedals:
+ large surface contact supposedly offering better power transfer, come in different types with different levels of lateral play
– can be tricky to walk with, especially on hard, slick surface (pavement, stones…). Plastic cleats that wear off rapidly.
If your road biking involves muddy country lanes in winter, then MTB shoes can be a better option as the cleats are less prone to clog with mud, the shoes are easier to walk in if you need to, and the design of MTB shoes is a bit more practical in general for the more mucky wet stuff. I always preferred MTB pedals on my road bike (and still do), but changed to SPDs for my Garmin Vectors.
Thanks for that. I’m due a new road bike and I also need to get some pedals and shoes for my mountain bike. Most of my riding is road so I was tossing up whether to get some good shoes that I can use on my mountain bike (and future road bike) and then get some new mountain bike pedals for my road bike when I get it. Decisions, decisions… ;)
@Robin, there are MTB cleated shoes that start at reasonably priced and go to the high-end with carbon soles designed for racing. If you have SPD pedals on all of your bikes, it’s easy to mix and match shoes for price and conditions.
All the above, and the SPD pedals themselves may be slightly easier to use without cycling shoes if you have to. A few other MTB-style pedals have the same benefit.
Back in the 90’s there was talk of SPD pedals being too easy to accidentally pull out of on a powerful upstroke. I suspect those stories were more a matter of the pedal tension adjustment being incorrect than a design flaw.
By lateral, I believe you mean angular or how much angle the cleat is designed to pivot. Lateral play is truly side to side, and some road pedals, such as Time, have always offered this. Some mountain pedals, again led by Time also offer 2mm lateral movement as well.
While I’m not a mountain biker and love my P1 pedals I really look forward to options for SPD power meter pedals. Why? I prefer mountain bike shoes for commuting and run a SRAM 1x (road) drivetrain on my commuter bike that isn’t easy to find crank based power meters for.
The price point for these are higher than I want to pay, but once these are on the market it might be the leak in the damn before a flood of similar products. Not holding my breath though.
power meter on your commuter bike?
Same reasoning for me.
My commute when I cycle is 60km with 1000m of climbing. The part in the city is much nicer with SPDs, so is the walking I have to do.
I waited several years for some MTB power meter pedals for my commuter bike, but I finally gave up and bought some Vector 3 pedals. Now I have some old running shoes waiting for me in the bicycle storage room that is still a block away from my office.
Just several months after I gave up and installed Stages LR… somebody actually showed up an SPD power meter… On the other hand – I’ve got an upgraded crankset (R8000 instead of R6780).
I’m using SPD pedals on all of my bikes just for the convenience of it: more durable, more walkable, easier to clip in (they are dual-sided!).
Well, you have something that works now. For a first of its kind power meter, it may take some time to shake out all the issues and get it reliable. SRM is no Limits so I’m sure they will get it figured out. But looking at all the other power meters Ray has tested, it seems that companies get 90% done and then have to work hard to get the last 10%.
That said, I’m really excited by this. I only use SPD on my road, gravel, and MTB bikes and would love to be able to swap pedals and have a power meter on all of them. And with the possibility of others releasing SPD power meter pedals, it could be a really competitive market.
Probably a silly question.
Why the necessity of a MTB specific power meter? Are the “normal” ones not ok for MTB?
Full suspension frames do not have room for a crank mounted power meter, and pedal-based meters have always required road cleats which would get destroyed walking around. Even my gravel bike does not have room for a crank-mounted meter. That has left spindle and chainring-mounted power meters as the only option for bikes designed for off-road, and that is a very small (and expensive) selection. This doesn’t reduce the cost, but it does FINALLY offer an option that is easy to move between bikes!
While there are lots of options for MTB (Stages crank arm, Cinch spindle, Quarq spider) none of them can move between bikes easily, if at all, depending on your bikes. So currently, if you want power on every ride, you have to outfit every bike and that can get expensive.
With a set of these pedals, it would be easy to move these between Gravel, Cyclocross, Hard Tail, Trail and Down Hill bikes in just a few minutes.
I hope these pedals don’t have the same issue as Stages PMs. I’ve got two Stages (v1 and v2) and they are both terrible for off road because they register huge 1s/2s watts when you crash through rock gardens while at zero cadence (image from Stages v2 on gravel bike).
I guess I’ve been lucky because I’ve not had these issues with Stages. Actually Stages has worked really well for me offroad. Have to say that I am strictly riding XCO/XCM so might not ride on rock gardens hard enough. I also have Stages L on both of my bikes and didn’t find any problem fitting it to either my xc fullsus or my trail hard tail. On the trail bike it’s a close fit though.
All direct force power meters measure torque and cadence separately. Power is a function of torque and cadence. The firmware may smooth out times when your cadence is rapidly fluctuating, but I have to think that what you see on your Stages is happening at some level with every direct force power meter out there (i.e. not things like the PowerPods or Notio Konnect units, which measure air resistance). Or am I wrong on this?
This isn’t exactly true. You can use a Shimano or SRAM MTB arm on a road bike if you’re willing to deal with the wider q-factor. The drive side would need ~10mm pedal spindle extension.
Otherwise, yes, MTB pedals would be the most transferable PM in all the land (road, MTB, and spin bike)
>>and that is a very small (and expensive) selection.
actually, quarq powermeter spider cost almost 2 times less..
I’ll be fascinated to see how they differentiate between landing a jump, rolling through the bottom of a dip and actually putting power in by pumping the bike. I’m going to go out on a limb and say these will be useless for measuring overall power the way it’s put down on a mountain bike. Sure, if you’re riding a mtb on a flat trail it’ll work like road. If you’re riding off-road though pedalling is a last resort and the least efficient so I can’t see any useful metrics while cycling.
I can see a small subset of people using these just for the mtb cleats on road though.
Power = torque x rotation. Unless you’re pedaling when landing that sick jump the power outputed, and recorded, is zero.
I see some noise on high speed descents that I’m powering into, but never on landings.
But on the other side of that, yes, pumping is not registered at all on my arm PM.
hmm
I’ve had my assiomas on my trail bike quite a few times (hard tail). If I go down some steps or similar hard-landed bumps then I get power peaks of, IIRC, 2000w. These are just from the impact, I assume.
I’m wondering if any of that sort of thing needs to be taken into account by SRM or any other MTB PM manufacturer or if that sort of noise is just acceptable/normal?
When it’s gravity/inertia that pushes the feet against the pedals instead of rider exertion it will either be just as propulsive as more steady pedaling (something that you do want tallied as watts) or it will be balanced between down-stroke crank and up-stroke crank, so the non-propulsive parts cancel each other out. Accounting for “negative pedaling” on the up-stroke side is nothing new or specific to MTB. On top of that, there are accelerometers on board anyways that should make it almost trivial to identify the remaining outliers for skipping. (e.g. actually hitting stuff)
Of course it is not easy at all to derive good results from sampling a “jumpy” source at limited rate, but if you think MTB has a lot of vibration, try riding a no-suspension roadbike on 23mm tires over large-pitch cobbles at speed. Existing PM are known to struggle there, but they already are far from failing.
oh just like posted above by @HyperSprite #25
I have an left-only Stages crank arm on my Niner Jet 9. I have not gotten any weird power spikes. And believe it or not it’s actually a repurposed Ultegra crank arm. Yes, it works great after adding some crank arm spacers from Problem Solvers. I was worried that the Stages road firmware wouldn’t work well on a MTB but so far it’s working great.
I use a Team Zwatt Zpider on my cross bike, which for a while had the occasional mentioned crazy watt spike when riding over rocks or landing from a jump. I then submitted my ride file through their app, and a while later, they fixed the spikes in a firmware update, so I suspect it’s possible to filter out the spikes.
The “upstroke” or pumping cancels out as much as the upstroke of a pedal does. As for power and rotation, sure, on a road bike that’s true. On a mtb I often go minutes without a single pedal stroke (and sometimes back-pedal) yet I’m still knackered from the effort. Don’t make excuses for this tech before it’s even released, it won’t be an accurate measure of human power input while off road and we don’t need to buy that marketing. They will hopefully be at least as good as assiomas on normal road riding, and that will be a win for many people.
I’ve not even touched on the 100kg limit for many road pedals which don’t have 100kg landing on them from 6ft up. Electronics in a spindle are nice until you need them to not bend!
@Johannes why do you think it’s a good thing to filter out that information? My original point was that just because you’re not pedaling doesn’t mean you’re putting in zero power. It’s impossible for this device to know the difference and so it absolutely cannot measure your power accurately.
watch link to youtube.com to understand how power can (and should!) be laid down on a mtb. No pedaling but you can bet those guys are getting tired from the effort, just not necessarily in their legs.
As I said, taken as a different format pedal for road style measurement these will be ace. As a tool for training off road, they are useless toys.
Hi Dave,
I’ve been using a crank based power meter on my MTB for quite some time now. They can be a really helpful training tool for post race analysis. During races they can be useful for pacing if the race see’s you going up as well as down.
Sure, if you’re only going down I probably wouldn’t bother with one.
Have a look at this link to forum.trainerroad.com ( I hope you don’t mind the link Ray as both you and Shane are regular posters).
Maybe ask Jonathan what useful information can be gained from using a power meter on the way down. He’s normally pretty happy to respond.
My, looking at the spindle, maybe they could work with Speedplay (can dreams come true?)
Dare to dream…
I was thinking the same thing! *fingers crossed*!
Does sound like a possibility… Maybe there’s a size issue in there, but possibly an enterprising engineer could make something that took the right spindle size and had speedplay compatible fittings on it? As long as the stack height matches it should still be as accurate, right Ray? But I do notice that the SRM website is now talking about 2% accuracy and 30 hours battery life, which seems to be two fairly big steps down…
The cool thing about having everything contained in the spindle body is that they could very easily come out with different pedal bodies for different applications. Small and light/compact for the XC crowd, with a larger platform & pins for the trail/enduro folks. And they could have a version with massive tension for the BMX/4X types as well…
If I recall correctly, the Garmin Vector 3’s sensor bits are entirely contained in the spindle as well. So perhaps they’ll jump in too? As a road rider who prefers the convenience and walkability of SPD, I can’t wait for some entrants in this space.
Garmin has said for years…so many years… that their ultimate goal is extending to other pedal platforms. Even back in the Metrigear days they talked about that. Of course, patents and such have probably got in the way.
Sigh, right after I sprung for a Quarq for my gravel bike… But then again, the Quarq was available and is now installed. It is nice to see SPD style power meter pedals. Kudos!
@Greg: My gravel bike was built with a frankengroupset in order to add a powermeter: Quarq PM for Truativ/BB90, 1x Wolftooth chainring, rear Di2 derailleur/brifters and a SRAM 10-42T cassette. It works great, but would’ve been a LOT easier to just buy SPD powermeter pedals!
I too have a Frankenbike for Gravel – Using an Ultegra Crank, Wolftooth 1X ring with a 4iiii 105 LH crank PM. Works well so far.
I hope PowerTap and Favero are taking the hint.
If I remember correctly all the magic is also in the Favero axle, PowerTap is probably different.
I love to have power meter pedals to put on my mountain and commuter bikes. They are easy to swap around and not as bike specific as wheels or cranks.
The magic for Favero is in that black pod thing ;-)
This is good stuff, between this and the IQ Squared MTB pedal, progress is being made.
I’m a cheapskate, and bought SPD cleats and MTB shoes the night before my first triathlon many years ago (because they were the cheapest option), and have been using SPDs on all my different style bikes since that time, currently on gravel and road bikes.
It looks like many people feel they are superior to the other styles.
Is that a general consensus for multi-style bike riders?
I don’t know that I would specifically claim they are superior, but they are certainly more convenient. Likely are more general purpose solution, but one without any dramatic disadvantages.
Some of the road-style pedals allow for a more precise adjustment of the cleat engagement angle. Some riders consider that essential to keep their knees happy and feel locked in correctly.
My first cleats and ever since have been spd but do get foot numbness after 35-40 km. never used other cleats but wonder whether greater contact area would lessen the issue as spd have a smaller pressure area compared to others by the looks
@GLT: You can get pretty precise SPD cleat position with the Ergon TP1 cleat tool (be sure to buy the one that matches your cleat type!) Also great for copying cleat position to a new pair of shoes. Available via Amazon using Ray’s Amazon link.
@Leon: Try a pair of shoes with stiffer soles. Will likely cost more than budget shoes.
Thanks @john. Have a pair of stiff insoles but didn’t make much of a difference (a few extra km). Cleats were adjusted when I did a retul fit.
It’s about shoe sole stifness, not contact area. And stiff, performance oriented shoes for MTB XC are widely available.
@leon I had a retul fit also, which actually caused me to stay getting foot pain. The problem was cleats positioned too far forward. The advice you always see us to put the cleat under the ball of your foot. However, for me I need the clay about 1 cm rearward from that. You might want to give it a try. But I would recommend using the Ergon tool to make sure you keep it straight (or angled if that’s what the fitter did). Check out bikefitjames on Instagram.
@Nooge, thanks, will try that out (and @Michal had tried to overcome that with stiff innersoles). Had a look at bikefitjames and got excited about the lake shoes but then looked up the price, maybe wait for the end of autumn sales :).
Man, I’ve broken more pedals than I care to think about. Thank goodness none of them cost €1000. I like training with power on my bikes, but outside of using a hub based system, I’m hesitant on my mountain bikes because stuff gets broken if you’re riding it hard… Cross bike is a different story…
The article explicitly states that the reason these new SRM powermeters are SPD-based is due to the expiration of the SPD patents. That begs the question…
Does anyone know when the SPD-SL patents expire? I think it is then and only then when we’ll finally see new SPD-SL based powermeters to join the Ultegra spindles that Garmin issued with the Vector 2.
I’ll take any new options… DuraAce, Time Xpro… anything to give more options in the pedal powermeter market.
The article explicitly states that these new SRM powermeter pedals have come about due to the expiration of the SPD patents. So that begs the obvious question…
Does anyone know when the SPD-SL patents expire? I believe it is then and only then when we’ll see additional SPD-SL pedal powermeters to join the Ultegra spindled ones that Garmin offered with the Vector 2. Bummer they’ve never done that for the Vector 3. Would have loved them.
My search in Google Patents shows a Shimano patent with an anticipated expiration date of 09/18/2021 that appears to be for the SPD-SL pedal design.
I can’t imagine their success regarding the fact how fast pedals wear out and how much they hurt in the modern cross country.
Thank you for this first review. Very important information for me and new active compensation température for origin crankset ! do you now if it’s available in srm one line shop?
1,000 EUR (and maybe USD). Let’s see, I’m in Australia so that makes… approx AUD 3,499 :-(
For SRM there is a big difference between December and January I imagine: to have it under a mountain biker’s Christmas tree or release when nobody wants to spend anything!
If it’s 1000 Euro, that’s AU$1600 (in a straight conversion).
Add the “Australia” tax to that, and you’re looking at $1800 if buying from o/s or closer to AU$2000 from a local shop.
Typo. I think you meant “small villages”. But I kinda like it as it is.
Will these pedals also be easily in Plug&Play like the Faveros? Would be nice, cause I own more than one MTB.
Any reason why the spd bodies couldn’t be swapped out for spd-sl or look bodies in the future?
Likewise I would think that spd pedal bodies on the favero assioma spindles should be possible if the patent has lapsed?
My gut feeling is; Favero, again, with no fanfare or prior announcement, but I’ll just release an spd power meter within the coming months. And it will be, undoubtedly, cheaper than other offerings out there and will just work.
IMVHO.
SRM not even first :-)
link to aws1.discourse-cdn.com
thread
link to forum.trainerroad.com
I wonder how these will hold up to pedal strikes. I thought that might be one reason we haven’t seen mtb power pedals in the past.
Very glad to see you writing about this, and actually talking about the replaceable pedals. I’ve seen people discounting these on the idea of “MTB always means pedal damage”, but that’s not _entirely_ true, and if the body is replaceable, even less of a concern, in the grand scheme of things.
As for me, shut up and take my $$$… like now.
Is there a possibility of using flat MTB pedals with the same spindle in the future?
Dunno why everyone has such an issue installing Exakt pedals.. line up blue dot.. tighten nut, zero on the ipad.. tighten nut.. its not rocket science.. takes about a minute per pedal on a bad day…
It’s not hard to use a car key either, but in a market where every car has remote unlocking that one car that requires a key will get called on it in a review. Similarly, in a market where every power meter pedal is accurate out of the box by just attaching it like any other pedal, the one that needs special procedures and costs more will get called on it. Maybe it is an easy install, but it’s not as easy as a Vector 3 and that’s the issue.
“Dunno why everyone has such an issue installing Exakt pedals.. line up blue dot.. tighten nut, zero on the ipad.. tighten nut.. its not rocket science.. takes about a minute per pedal on a bad day…”
It’s cumbersome, and atop that, it’s really hard to actually get accurate numbers if you’ve got other accurate power data sources to compare to. If you’ve only got one unit, you probably don’t know how inaccurate it is across a wide range of scenarios, especially outdoors.
Exakt pedals.. line up blue dot.. tighten nut, zero on the ipad.. tighten nut..
Favero pedals… fit pedals…
Same numbers as both my Campy and Cannondale SRMs and my Neo.. and the problem is??
As for cumbersome.. I think its most people are just lazy… it takes a minute per pedal even being picky to perfectly zero it…
Cool that it’s working for you. Just not what I’ve seen with a few sets of them in the testing I’ve done. Cheers.
Interesting news for me! But it raises two questions.?
1 Any weightlimits for these pedals?
2 Does it work with knee savers?
what kind of bearings are used?
I have been struggling to find a power meter to fit my Cannondale Scalpel because of the custom AI crank. These pedals look like they will solve my issue. very exciting!
If it’s all in the spindle, it would be great if I could just slip my Eggbeaters onto said spindle.
hi DCR, thanks for sharing!
i’m excited too! definitely inetresting, since i need new spd anyhow
are you able to share the stack height as well? it looks pretty bulky, mut maybe it’s only a few millimeters there :) as you know, low stack height is a plus when it comes to smooth pedalling
thanks, bas
I’ll ask…
Looking forward to the review of these when they start to ship. Have wanted these for ten years+
So, I’m not clear in understanding compatibility. Will these work with standard Shimano SPD cleats? Like the SH-51 or SH-56?
That’s interesting news. It could potenially end the annoying process of finding the right power meter for my bikes. Boost vs. non boost, Cannondale Ai cranks, sram cranks vs. Shimano cranks, etc. In the past I found myself buying new bikes based on the condition my old power meter would fit to it. Or selling it used on a hefty discount.
the frequently mentioned durability concerns of a pedal in the MTB world are a real thing though. Let’s see.
The avatars of people posting in the comments section is huge! Gigantic. They cover the full width of the comments section.
That’s odd, everything looks normal to me. What device type are you on?
Happens on iPad if I remember correctly. If one cycles back and forth between lands sale and portrait mode it resizes only for the comments that were visible in view at the time.
Thanks, will dig in a bit!
I have the same on my MacBook in Safari. When I have the sidebar with bookmarks open while browsing the comments the profile pics of posters in the comments are huge. Then removing and redisplaying the sidebar fixes it…. and doing the same a second time makes them again huge. Happy debugging…..
Definitely hoping that this opens the floodgates for spd pedals and that somebody like favero comes in and undercuts the sram price. I have favero pedals but if they come out with spd power pedals I’m ready to sell my current favero and switch my bikes to spd.
Have you happened to hear any more chatter about this? Or any other companies coming out with SPD compatible pedals? Maybe a Vector SPD?
How about anything new on the Wahoo Speedplay acquisition that could come out with power pedals for MTB?
I shoot SRM a note a week or two ago. Haven’t heard back yet.
Yo DC! What’s the likelihood of a crankbrothers eggbeater or candy pedal body fitting and actually working with the SRM mtb pedal spindles? Im not a fan of Shimano and or SPD
No Cycling Dynamics, but will they have torque effectiveness and pedal smoothness? I believe those are standard ANT+ fields. Looking to use on my bikes and also unicycles, and the extra data would be very interesting.
Hello!
First of all, sorry for my English taken from the google translator.
Tell you that I am a firm follower of your blog, although I never decided to write until today.
I have a doubt with the bicycle potentiometers.
I usually run with my Stryd in the running shoe.
I find very valuable information and a better way to assess your fitness and how to focus on a career.
I have it linked to my Garmin Forerunner 945 and I can see the power values when running.
But, in addition, installing apps through Garmin Connect IQ I can keep a better control of the power in the race, since I can indicate maximum and minimum values in the mobile phone app to let me know if I leave those margins .
The same can be done in the workouts you create in Garmin Connect for rhythm or beats per minute, for example.
I want to say with this that it seems basic to me to be able to somehow control the power in the race, not only to see it reflected on a screen that, on the other hand, I will not be watching every few seconds.
Then I wondered if that was also possible in cycling. If there is a way to be able to mark a maximum and minimum to notify you, the watch or the garmin 1030/820, if you leave those margins, through an application.
Thanks for everything.
Regards, Juan.
YO Juan, it is possible to do that, just create a new Workout on Garmin Connect and set lower and upper end values for the target power.
Another great option is using a visual gauge for power, there is an data field called “power gauge”, where you can see how “hard” are you going depending on your FTP and the relative Coggan Power zones.
Will these install with either a standard pedal wrench, or by an allen key on the back of the spindle?
Do you have to torque them to a proper spec to be accurate?
Also, does it look possible to replace the externals if damaged against a rock, or worn out over a few years?
I currently run stages on a road, gravel, 2 mountain, and a fat bike. I am totally willing to ebay all of them and pick up some of these if they really are durable and servicable. I’d assume it’s not that big a deal to have one pair and swap them between each bike, assuming they will take an allen key on the back…
I’d be interested in any updates on availability (or if other companies are coming out with SPD mountain power meters).
Looks like standard pedal wrench flat portions on the spindle, so my guess is pedal wrench. I haven’t heard back from SRM yet though.
Any news?
This site is saying end of the month delivery: link to powermetershop.de
We’ll see. I’m anxiously awaiting.
The website now says delivery in 30 to 50 days… So I guess it’s gonna be another 2 months probably…
Now it says June/July. The announcement was on September 9 2019, and I fear we won’t see these before September 9 2020.
Due to corona they have shut down production. Before, they only manufacturered about 20 a week anyway. I think they are being assembled in Italy and they are affected quite hard these days. Hopefully they will ramp up production soon.
Interesting that they now have changed their accuracy to +/-2% from the anticipatet +/-1% …
Power based pedals arent easy it seems…
I don’t know, I treat accuracy estimates for power meters the same way I treat battery life estimates for various devices: wishful thinking. I pay more attention to Ray’s many comparisons of various power meters over the years, and from those my rule of thumb is that power meters have an accuracy of about +/- 10 watts at any given moment (averages will be more accurate). Sure, maybe in controlled conditions indoors whatever power meter that’s under consideration might reach +/- 1%. In the real world under real conditions, I don’t think that’s possible. Upping to +/- 2% wouldn’t put me off at all.
I just got the email that this goes on sale on April 20 for € 999. I was hoping for a better price point.
I think it’s pretty fair. Vector 3 is about the same. And SRM is generally more expensive in spider based power meters also.
Any chance an in depth review is coming soon?
Soon-ish…yes.
The SRM X pedals arrive this week, but I likely won’t have the rest of my MTB crankset testing system till next week (a blended Quarq & 4iiii power meter setup), since Quarq was backordered until (finally) tomorrow from back in February. I checked and that’s still the case.
Still, I can do some early testing on a trainer no problem and validate the basics this week, as well as validate other bits like cadence reliability, etc…
Awesome! Looking forward to reading your review!
Any word on other companies planning similar products this year? I REALLY wanted to pick this up, but at $1200 USD I’m going to have to pass.
Not sure. But I thought it was going to be parity ($999/999EUR), is it showing $999USD on the US site?
I don’t think it’s even on SRM US website Ray.
Are these contracted to be built by “others” in Italy?
on the RideSRM page it’s showing $1199.
I didn’t think it was the official srm site.
I got an Email from them with the link to rideSRM. The Email came from info at srm dot de. So I was assuming it was their site…could be wrong.
The page header says ‘SRM USA’. with a price $1199. Is this official?
link to ridesrm.com
If you go to srm.de -> shop -> US Shop you get taken to ridesrm.com/shop and the first link there is to pre-order the SRM X Power for $1199.
So yeah, that seems to be about as legit as you can get.
Oh, didn’t know the srm de-ridesrm connection. Then it might be the real thing. I’ve checked the de site and drilled down to its US section.
Still 1200 is quite steep. That’s two pairs of Assioma territory.
I was hoping for better pricing as well. $1200 is a bit too much for me to go for as well. I’m not keen on non-replaceable batteries as well, but I understand many manufacturers are going this route. I prefer coin cell batteries of some kind. Rechargeable tends to put the life around 2 years.
Any update on when your hands on review of these pedals will be released? You’ve had them for a month now and I’m SUPER antsy whether to get these for both the mtb and the gravel bike or a Power2Max NGEco for the gravel bike & a RaceFace Cinch power meter for the mtb.
My mountain bike power meter components got all assortment of hung up, I think they might arrive any day though (finally).
In the meantime though, I’ve been riding it outdoors on my road bike doing gravel where I can, cobbles, and just regular pavement. Some casual trails too. Also, indoor gathering. That said, I need to do a data dump and see if anything amiss has popped up in the last few weeks of riding.
Cool! One thing I’m REALLY interested in is power spikes and general reliability with rock strikes and whatnot. I always used to get power spikes in the likes of 1600+ watts from downhill sections of trails on my Stages Gen 2 and 3. Was wondering if you manage to get any data spikes and if SRM is doing anything specifically to account for that. Those have always thrown my TrainingPeaks power numbers off.
I think they’ll definitely be a hard sale as I can get two power meters (NGeco+Cinch) for about the same price as the SRM X-Power now which makes them less useful (with the exception of dual power readings).
Hi Ray,
I know it must be annoying to have people asking every couple of weeks “when will you publish your review?”, but I’ll give it a try as it seems that there was nothing in the comments for a month now? I’m considering selling my road bike to keep only my gravel bike with several wheel sets, as it’s doing very well the job on the road, but I would need a powermeter on the gravel bike before I can do this move. So really looking forward to discovering whether the SRM pedals could be the gravel/MTB powermeter so many of us have been waiting for!
Cheers,
Julien
Yeah, I’m having some accuracy problems that I’m working with SRM to figure out. It seems to be hit or miss where when I install it, it’s either ‘All good’, or ‘Not good’. And trying to figure out what causes the not good scenario. I had been moving it around between bikes when I started noticing the issues. Hope to have them sorted soon!
On the Exakt pedals… I’ve been using Loctite on both the spindle threads & locknut threads. This has eliminated the problem of the small changes in the axle angle while riding, throwing the calibration off.
On the X, If this is the type of problem you are having… this may be a solution.
Cheers,
Rui
Thanks, yeah, working with SRM. It’s something else at this point.
I have a set of the pedals and have used them a couple times on our Peloton to see how the #’s compare. It wasn’t good. I know it was just the Peloton, but I was curious. I would like to get the power meter crank for the Peloton to get a better idea how the pedals really compare. I’m very excited to know that your testing them out.
Hello, Where did you get your pedals from? … been waiting ages. been thinking there’s a production/engineering problem that needs to be solved. (They started delivery a few months, but now it’s just a waiting list again.)
Don’t purchase until DC posts a review! There is some issues they might need to resolve. I got mine from SRM.
I would love an update on these as well, I know your busy with tons of products but I won’t purchase these till I get a seal if approval from you!
Thanks!
Sorry, quick update is that they’re swapping out the pedals. They believe that being an earlier production run something is amiss there that they want to dig into to, and are getting me a recent production run edition.
Good to hear. I’ve got an email to them and then a call. They said they’d call me still waiting for that call.
Thanks for the update. These pedals look really promising. But, I’m waiting until you test them and confirm their quality, accuracy, and whatnot, before I buy them.
Been holding off on replacing some failing SPD pedals, hoping either this or the iq2 would be out this year. Lack of updates from either company have lead me to grab some new XT pedals. A shame, really. Looks like it will be best to wait another a couple years before a viable SPD power option is available at a reasonable price-point *and* has the kinks worked out.
I am very interested in the full review whenever it is ready and I would consider using these pedals on my gravel bike as well as my fat bike.
I am especially interested to know whether SRM has figured out how to eliminate power spikes when descending rough terrain. Power spikes are a huge issue with Stages left-side power meters on a mountain bike or gravel bike if you descend left foot forward.
When are you finally going to test them???
Are there still issues with the pedals that need to be resolved or are you too busy to get the review published yet?
I know most people aren’t worried about MTB power meter pedals in November but it’s prime season here in AZ…
Thanks!
Just too busy at the moment.
That said, recent power data both inside and outside is look pretty stable.
Just to clarify, simply been so slammed to sit down and write it all. I continue to test the pedals on every ride.
Any updates on these? Santa’s coming soon.
Any update from SRM on when these are going to start shipping?
Mine shipped today, I ordered direct from SRM.
received and tested them today, only did a simple commute test and no issue at all. simple setup and straightforward use with my garmin 530
DId you receive the single-sided or dual-sided X-power?
Single, dual-sided was quoted as 12-14 weeks delivery time…
From your prelim testing do you think the pedals are any good?
I would like to set them up on my gravel bike but I am concerned about reliablity. I could go with STAGES GRX810 or make a hail mary wait and hope Garmin comes out with their own version of MTB power pedals.
They seem to be at this point. No major concerns, outside of slightly higher than desired battery life burn.
Ray,
What is the battery life at, how long can I run before I need to recharge? Also do you think this is firmware issue or hardware issue?
Mine X Power pedals lasts up to about 8 – 9 hours until they warn me about low battery. After the warning message they have enough juice to finish your 3 hour ride. Tested in current low temperature of 2 – 5 °C.
That is disappointing, especially since SRM says 30 hours. I don’t do a ton of super long rides but would be nice to have pedals that can last up to 24 hours.
8-9 hours! Ugh. That’s a shame, I’d really been looking forward to these.
But with that battery life, I’m more tempted to go with the Shane Miller Favero Assioma / Xpedo SPD hack. Ray raves about the Assioma’s and they have a 50 hour battery life and +/- 1% accuracy versus SRM’s +/- 2% and now this ridiculous battery life Kika experienced above.
Yeah, I think the Favero hack is a great option. The only caveat is I haven’t seen a ton of off-road accuracy data, especially MTB. So that’s one minor thing to consider. It could be perfectly fine, I just haven’t seen much there.
But yes, the battery situation on SRM X is non-optimal (and, it’s kinda ‘nice’ to see I’m not the only one seeing it).
Personally I never trust manufacturer’s accuracy or battery life numbers. But I’d especially not trust that hacked pedals had the same accuracy as the originals.
Wow, 11-12 hours of runtime is not even close to the 30 hours claimed by SRM. I was excited to order a pair of these pedals but this is a deal-breaker for me.
I’ve had a set since the summer, in the warm months I was getting much better batter life, more like ~20hrs between charges. In the cold weather its been closer to 10-12. You’ll get a low battery warning with somewhere between 20-30% charge left.
I’ll also add – I swap the pedals between my gravel and MTB. I have noticed the battery depletion is quicker on the gravel rides, I suspect its because there’s much more pedaling/less coasting than MTB rides on technical undulating terrain. I haven’t really measured the difference in batter life between the two.
Still following and hoping for some updates on better or improvements in battery life. Sounds like cold weather 10 hours is the baseline perhaps?
I am facing another problem with these pedals. When there is a new update firmware version you have to update otherwise these pedals stop showing the data. I am also facing a problem with these updates as my Android Samsung Galaxy 9 phone gives my this readings while trying to update: “Updating failed with error:GATT ERROR”. I was told that this is a problem of my phone´s BT. My phone´s BT work great with all of my Garmin wearables, Vector 3 pedals, Elite and Tacx trainers, my HP laptop, etc. And SRM states that the GATT ERROR is my phones problem??? Am I supposed to buy a new compatible 500 Eur phone for my 1.200EUR X-Power pedals? I must say that I am a very disappointed with these long awaited expensive toys from SRM.
I’ve had the same problem with updating the firmware from my Android device. I’ve had to use an iPhone. I haven’t put a ticket in with Srm yet about that.
I own Assoimas too, they’ve been so trouble free and just work in comparison.
Hacked ones?
A couple of weeks ago SRM X Power had the single sided power pedal available on the SRM USA site. I held out because I wanted the dual petal. I am wondering if the dual sided pedal was available and I justed noticed too late after it sold out. Did anyone purchase the dual pedal recently? I am trying to guestimate when the dual pedal will be available again.
This wait is killing, wondering if I should go crank option. I have GRX 810 2x. Wondering if anyone can give recommendations.
Ok