(*** In case you missed it, an in-depth review was posted of the three Dash L50, M50, and L10. See the link for more info.)
While most of the cycling focus this week may be on the Tour Down Under in Australia, the reality is that most sports tech companies are busy cookin’ away trying to get products ready for the spring, when most cyclists (aside from Australians) wake up from hibernation and see what the non-Watopia world looks like (feel free to insert your own world switching joke here).
For some of these companies, it’ll be getting things cooked prior to announcements in the usual Sea Otter timeframe in April. But for Stages, it’s trying to get last year’s Eurobike 2018 announcements out the door. You’ll remember the company announced a trio of cycling head units. Rather than recap that entire post and all the features/details/specs once again, I’m going with the super-quick bulletized version here (and then eventually an in-depth review once they get to release point).
So squished into my CES schedule last week in Las Vegas, I headed out for a first test ride on some near-final devices.
A Brief Primer:
If you’re new to the Stages 2018 bike GPS game, here’s the three versions:
Stages Dash L10: $149 – Basically the previous Stages Dash that’s far more powerful and can now do courses. Black & white display. Stages Dash M50: $249 – This is the mid-sized unit, kinda like a Wahoo BOLT or Edge 520 Plus. Color display, maps/courses. Stages Dash L50: $349 – This is the largest of the units, sorta like a Hammerhead Karoo in size. Color display, maps/courses.
All of the units have the same feature-set, save the L10 which doesn’t have the full set of detailed color maps (breadcrumb style). So you’re essentially paying for the screen size you want.
From a mapping standpoint, the unit’s are akin to the Wahoo ELEMNT/BOLT in that they follow routes sent to them by the phone/computer, but can’t re-route on the fly. So it’s a bit less in terms of mapping capabilities than a Garmin Edge 520 Plus or such. However, Stages has more mapping detail than Wahoo does, in that they also leverage the color to make it clear what are lakes/rivers and even interstates on the maps. So it’s kinda straddling the line between what Garmin is doing and what Wahoo is doing. Roughly.
From a structured workout standpoint, the company continues to dominate this area, in terms of the exact steps given to someone out riding that structured workout. I talked about this when it first launched on the previous Stages Dash units almost 18 months ago – and most of it remains similar today, except now there’s lots of color-coding for zones. But more on that in a minute.
And lastly, the big ticket key to all these units is that you can configure all three unit’s data fields from all three places: The unit itself, the phone, and your computer. Nobody else in the industry has this today. For example, Garmin’s are configured on the unit itself, whereas Wahoo is with your phone. Sigma is close in that you can configure the ROX 12 with a desktop computer and on the unit itself, but not a phone app.
Not to mention the crazy number of display fields that Stages can do on their screen. Like, you can basically have a separate data field for each mile of your bike ride. It’s kinda nuts. But, configure as you wish – options are great for everyone.
Just over a week ago I met up with Stages in the desert in a deserted parking lot. It was pretty much how most cartel body disposal meetings go down. Though, actually, we first met in a small coffee shop to walk through all the software platform features. And I got to see the final retail boxes. None of which I thought to take photos of. I was still a bit jetlagged from the day before.
Nonetheless, all of it looked good. The boxes were pretty, but more importantly the mobile app was looking really slick, with a bunch of features added into it that make it one of the most capable smartphone app companions out there. Far more detail than Wahoo provides in their app, and a different level of detail than Garmin. I say different because Stages clearly has tons more cycling-specific info in their app, whereas Garmin has more holistic info (stuff like activity tracking, etc…). Same-same, but different.
Still, what I came for was the ride.
Back in that parking lot, we loaded up my bike with three head units. Two on the bars, and one in my pocket for later. The two that people (mainly, me) cared about most were on my bars: The Dash M50 and L50. These being the two color units.
I also had some watches along as well for recording the GPS tracks. Pat (the Stages guy I was riding with) had pre-loaded the routes onto the unit. For this day we’d selected what was essentially an out and back. Except we decided to dork things a bit by taking a slightly different path on the way out (read: we missed the turn leaving the parking lot and I was curious to see what would happen, so we went with it).
Since this post is more of a super quick look into where things stand, I just want to briefly touch on the new bits. Again, down the road a full review once the units are ready. If you want this all in video format, then just click play below:
Individually though, here’s a brief look at the new pieces. First starting off with the course bits. Since we were out in the desert, there wasn’t much in the way of dense urban goodness to look at around us on the map. Whereas at the coffee shop we were near suburbia and plenty of interstates. So there was tons of stuff on the map. Still, what you see below is that the darker blue is where we’ve been to date, whereas the lighter blue line ahead is where we’re going. They said they’re still looking at the colors a bit, so that may not be final.
Note: All of these in-ride pics were shot in video, and then screen-clipped. As such, the quality is iffy at best. It looks prettier in person. Again, I wasn’t really thinking this post through mid-ride unfortunately.
Additionally, you see the elevation profile displayed as well. The greyed portions are where you’ve been already, and the gradients are displayed in different colors. All you really need to know is that the color red hurts. You can zoom and pan on the map by hitting the lower left button.
For reference, here’s what the PowerPoint back at Eurobike showed for more dense mapping areas, and I can say it looks pretty much exactly like this (except the shading is slightly different now on the elevation graph):
If you go off-course and then return to course some time later, it’ll correctly skip to the next portion of the elevation profile (as we did). So that was nice.
Since the units were first introduced, one of Stages’ big marketing focuses has been the brilliance of the display – which still manages to get 15-18 hours of GPS-on time. The display itself was apparently chiseled out of a lighthouse, as it’s mind-bogglingly bright. Back at Interbike you’ll remember how horrible all my photos came out indoors. It’s really tough to shoot.
But now out in the desert, it definitely shines. As you can easily see in the video – it’s increda-bright. In fact, the company says one of the things that they’re working on prior to release is decreasing the backlight at night (or in tunnels). They say they’re still hitting their previous battery targets of 15-18 hours for the M50/L50 (the L10 is at 24-30 hours GPS-on time).
One of the big-ticket items is the implementation of a new color-coded power target gauge. This carries over from their indoor cycling bikes where folks in clubs are just trying to aim for a specific color that corresponds to a given zone. So you can set up these zones ahead of time to your liking, or, you can let it try and determine the zones based on your power efforts during actual workouts. Similar to how some apps/devices/platforms determine your FTP.
Notice how on the lower right side my total ride power is in the yellow zone, whereas my current power at that moment was in the blue (easy) zone. Also notice how there’s secondary color-coded zones for heart rate. That’s useful for some structured workouts that may specify to maintain a given power until HR reaches a certain threshold, at which point you terminate that set.
When it comes to the structured workout bits, we switched that on mid-way through the ride. The core of that workout engine is as before, except now it’s going to give you color-coded zones for everything. In fact, you’ve got different sets of colors to watch.
When in workout mode this gets simplified to just a couple of colors on the gauge, allowing you to easily figure out if you’re on-target or above/below. Sorry, again, slightly off-center video snippet to show this. You’ll see how the majority of the target is grey, except the orange/red target zones (orange/red corresponding to your normal power colors). In this case, I took this screenshot just as we crested a hill, so I totally missed this target as we started going downhill.
But what’s interesting here is that you can still see the normal non-workout zone colors on individual data fields. For example, your power/cadence/HR zones can still have their own colors that are always visible. This gets to a bit of the Stages strategy of giving you tons of options for structured workouts and just data in general. I continue to see the Stages Dash units as the most data-centric head unit out there. If it’s data you want, Stages gets you that.
Like with past Stages products, the unit will count-down into different workout segments. Additionally, workouts will automatically sync to the unit from not just the Stages platform (Today’s Plan), but soon other popular training platforms that also use similar initials.
What about GPS accuracy? Things look pretty good thus far. It’s something that Stages says they’ve spent a ton of time on, even doing silly things like going into cul-de-sac’s and doing spirals towards the center to see how perfect they look. And it seems to be paying off. As we climbed up a thin and twisty bike path, the Stages and COROS units were spot-on the bike trail. The Polar not so much.
You can look at the full GPS track here in the DCR Analyzer. This file was from the Stages M50 (the middle-priced unit). We ended up stopping the L50 file mid-ride and restarting it, in order to access the workout function (since in this beta build it didn’t yet allow mid-ride workout enablement, by shipping it will).
I looked at the elevation profile in the Analyzer, but honestly, I’m not sure who is right or wrong there. The Polar unit doesn’t have a barometric altimeter (it’d be using GPS for elevation), whereas the COROS APEX does. The Stages and COROS units were slightly offset at times, but again, I have no idea which one is right on this specific ride:
Again, this is just one ride – and one without trees no less. So just take it as a single random data point. Nothing more, nothing less.
Going Forward:
So the big question is: When is Stages actually going to ship this trio?
If you ask them, they’d say February. But I think that’s a touch bit optimistic. Not heavily so, but just slightly. My guess is that they might skid in late February, but I’d put my money more on early March. They noted that most of their time to date has been on ensuring the underlying platform is rock solid, and then from here cleaning up some of the loose ends in the user interface.
And indeed, on a few different units shown to me last weekend, the newest builds had much prettier visual elements to them. Small touches that really did make a big difference on one’s perception of the unit. Still, I find most companies tend to underestimate how long the finishing UI aspects tend to take.
While out riding, Pat and I had chatted a bit about bike GPS’s in general, and how that when a unit works fine, you get to the end of the ride and say ‘Shrug, all was good’. There often isn’t some massive bit of excitement like there might be in playing with a new phone. A bike GPS should be somewhat subtle. It should give you the data you want when you want it, and it shouldn’t lead you astray (literally or figuratively).
So as we got to the end of the ride he asked what I thought – and ultimately referenced back to that conversation. It all worked just fine for me on this ride. Sure, a few minor bugs, but at its core – it showed the data I expected and did it well. There was no crashes or other spectacular failures – so all was good.
(As a funny aside, over the last numbers of years, Pat has been the designated Stages person to show me new technology. And on all previous product intro rides with him over the years, something has always gone horribly sideways. The first Dash preview ride years ago, the GPS wouldn’t turn on upon arrival in Paris, and then two years ago my first Stages LR ride resulted in a bunch of wonky data. These were just early development/beta bits of bad luck, but I presume he left the desert happy that nothing went horribly wrong.)
Ultimately, I think the biggest challenge for Stages bike GPS units will simply be one of ‘Why Stages?’. Sure, for the data-driven athlete, there’s tons of good reasons. But for the more general athlete, the M50/L50 are a harder pitch over Wahoo and Garmin at the same price (and Lezyne/Polar too). With Stages lacking Strava Live Segments (due to Strava placing a per-device fee on it), it’ll hurt them in the more mass-market appeal.
Still, I’m excited about they’ve got coming. Plus, that $149 unit continues to be the best deal out there for GPS bike computers. The features packed into that are incredible for that price. But I’m also looking forward to seeing some of the user interface finesse that I saw on some of the units come out. I think that’ll help quite a bit.
With that – thanks for reading!
Wanna Save 10%? Or found this review useful? Read on!
Hopefully you found this review useful. At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love). As you probably noticed by looking below, I also take time to answer all the questions posted in the comments – and there’s quite a bit of detail in there as well.
I’ve partnered with Clever Training to offer all DC Rainmaker readers an exclusive 10% discount across the board on all products (except clearance items). You can pick up the Stages Dash units from Clever Training. Then receive 10% off of everything in your cart by adding code DCR10BTF at checkout. By doing so, you not only support the site (and all the work I do here) – but you also get a sweet discount. And, since this item is more than $79, you get free US shipping as well.
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Are they doing that stupid fake feature/price differentiation thing that other companies do, where only the more expensive ones can connect to power meters? Any word on di2 ant+ pairing, remotes for page switching, radar, etc?
Ray is right. We figure we are not the only ones who love having all of their data. The things that differentiate our products are purely hardware driven: The L10 has a black and white display, and if we could put maps on it we would, but we cant make a bike computer for $149 that can also handle all the fancy OSM cycling specific mapping our L50 and M50 units can.
The M50 and L50 are essentially the same in feature sets. Updates will always apply to both units and include the same new features. The L50 will have a bit longer battery life, more data fields possible on one page, and be easier to read just by virtue of being bigger. For some of us at Stages, bigger text and data fields are a welcome sight for our aging eyes.
As for sensors at launch, we will support BLE/ANT power, heart rate, cadence, speed, and speed/cadence sensors. Some trainers (Unique BLE profiles there are a bit trickier and will come throughout the summer in time for winter). The first things after launch are radar and electronic groupsets which should be in before the main riding season here in the northern hemisphere. Remotes and lights to follow.
Re bigger text – it would be good to see customisable font size, even though it can be a headache for UI designers. Like many middle-age cyclists, I’m at that stage where my near distance vision isn’t what it used to be, but everything’s still fine on a bike ride until some critical warning message pops up in 8pt on my Edge. Was that my back light about to die? Di2 battery warning? Vector 3s losing connection again? No idea.
I see what you mean, and you are certainly right on about how that can be difficult for UI designers. Customizing font size was not in the plan, but its a good idea. I cant say we could do this by launch, but I have logged a feature request for it so we can asses the impact of changing font size throughout our UI, and exposing that setting to the rider.
To you, as a person who has difficulty seeing notification overlays on his Garmin, you can be sure the overlay font on the L50 notifications will be bigger and easier to read. First of all, Both the M50 (2.2″ display) and L50 (2.7″ display) have higher resolution displays (240x300px) than the Garmin 520 (2.3″ and 200x265px). That makes a massive difference in font readability. That said, for the L50 specifically, all aspects of fonts, data fields, and widgets will be ~20% bigger than the M50, and very crisp.
I hope that helps. We really think the L50 is a fantastic bike computer. Its display is big, the battery life is good, and with its high resolution riders who have difficulty seeing small fonts and widgets on existing computers can actually use our cycling specific maps or color guided workouts without squinting and being unsafe out on the road.
Neil,
My solution to that problem is a pair of safety glasses with built-in readers. They come in clear, yellow and “smoke” which is essentially sunglasses. They’re about $10 a pair and you can get them anywhere from 1.5 up to about 3 or so. For me, 1.5’s work great and I can see my device perfectly with them.
How easy is it to zoom and pan the maps on these devices? Garmin 520(+) can’t pan and zooming takes multiple button presses through the menus, which makes them non-starters for me. The 820 would be OK if the touch screen wasn’t so bad.
No menu button presses required, you can do it all from the map screen. I show it in the video a bit actually, albeit only super quick because the camera shot at that moment didn’t turn out well.
Interesting units!
From software developers view I think they should invest software quality of upcoming updates (unit tests etc). This is a weak point of most Garmin products. I could image that people are willing to switch to Stages more likely when they get software updates that really work. Not like it is very often: Creating new features/updates messes up existing functionality completly.
Product lead from Stages here (maybe I’ll stop saying that in later comments). Great to hear this technical request! We are using unit tests and intend on releasing full updates without dependencies to avoid making any mistakes like you described. Your settings and files will always be safe, as we wont touch that partition during the update.
We are also a company full of cyclists eager to test our products, which I find to be a major asset for Stages in general. Keep the technical questions coming, I think in a forum such as this you wont be the only one interested in the topics.
Neither at start. Though, it seems like radar might be on the table. We chatted about it a bit during the ride, especially since the route we were on was perfect for it (occasional cars, but when they came by they were usually high speed).
Yes please. I realise that radar users only make up a very, very small minority, but I know I certainly wouldn’t go back to riding without one, and I suspect most others would feel the same. Support for radar would be an essential feature for any future bike computer purchase for me.
We are liking all of the radar requests we are seeing, it will certainly cause a prioritization of this feature for us to “immediate” instead of “nice to have”. Look for it to be added right away after launch.
Allow me to consider you sold a little after launch, then :)
This forum has rocketed radar compatibility up to the top of the list for us. We are obviously in the final crunch time before launch right now polishing up things that Ray already keenly noted, but once we set our sights on it, it should not take us long to get it done. Keep an eye out for a late spring release with radar support.
PS: Anything you wish was better about your current radar experience? Asking for a friend…
It’s purely anecdotal at this point, as I don’t have a decibel meter laying around the office, but the L50 speaker is pretty loud! I think plenty loud for letting you know there’s something to check out on the L50 display.
Like I mentioned earlier, we hear this group when it comes to radar integration, so look for it soon after launch.
Thanks Jim, my usual training route starts with a 1 hour outbound into a strong 10-20mph headwind. I can go for 10-15 minutes without a car, and with the Edge 520 it can be a little difficult to hear because of the wind. The L50 looks like my next upgrade!
What’s the source of their maps? The Garmin maps are notoriously bad for mtb trails, but at least allow you to sideload your own from someplace like openstreetmaps. Wahoo has better basemaps but do NOT allow any sideloading. Where does Stage fit?
And how secure would you consider their mount to be? Suitable for ‘robust’ trail riding?
It’s OSM, same as Garmin and Wahoo actually. But each company can choose from a crapton of options on which trails/etc to include or not include. Perhaps Stages is able to chime in on what they’ve done.
Their mount is crazy solid. Seriously, no in-box mount system is as good as theirs (all metal). There’s a mountain biker I follow (he may be one of their athletes, not entirely sure), that has his unit out-front all the time. Unreal stuff: link to youtube.com
Product lead from Stages here. Our maps are OSM based. Since we have full color, high resolution displays on both units, we styled our maps to show you things a cyclist wants to see: roads with bike lanes, paved bike paths, dirt bike paths, etc. are all brightly colored making it easy to explore great bike routes on the fly. We also de-emphasized major highways which are typically poor for bike riders. We even display icons for things bikers want to see, like public restrooms and pubs :)
All dash cycling map regions are free. You can manage your map regions, settings, courses, and workouts using Stages Link. Since both M50 and L50 have ~13GB free for maps, you should have no problem loading all the places you like on your Dash (for example, Australia is about 2GB, so thats a lot of map region space!).
Clear maps are always a good thing, and one extra I always wish my Edge had was the ability to customise the colour scheme, as an artistic palette doesn’t necessarily make for a good UX. For example, Garmin’s use of a range of similar blues and purples on my Edge 1030 often leaves me approaching a junction thinking “which one’s the ‘this is your route’ shade of blue and which one’s the ‘this is a main road’ one? Or is it actually a river?”. I’d love to be able to just change the scheme to primary and secondary colours that are easy to differentiate, even if the end result did look like I’d just got a bumper Crayola set for Christmas.
You can use custom colour schemes on maps for Garmin devices if you are willing to compile your own maps. I have done it but there was a learning curve and quite a bit of tweaking until I worked out the settings I wanted.
First of all you download the relevant OSM data in the native OSM format. Then you can strip out any elements you don’t want. Then you can compile the edited OSM data into the Garmin map format while applying your custom style. Then you can add the maps to your Garmin device.
All the tools needed are free and use the command line. I have saved out the command lines required to text files making it easy to repeat the process if I want to update the map.
A simple option built into the Garmin units would be nice.
Completely agree! We have spent a lot of time here going though a ton of different color schemes to try and make maps with the easiest to understand colors at a glance, even for our color deficient employees.
We have not exposed color scheme customization to the user for launch, but are willing to consider it down the road. I have logged a feature request for this and we will look at it as we prioritize updates throughout the year.
Here is what we have done to make using a Dash map the best cycling experience on the market today:
– Roads with bike lanes are BRIGHT magenta
– Paved bike paths are BRIGHT green
– Dirt paths that are ok for cycling are brown
– Your course is BRIGHT blue (see a theme?)
– Your breadcrumb trail is black
Other roadways on the map, which are still important but less so maybe to a cyclist looking to explore, are indicated by different widths of road, depending on their road type, which are white with a dark border on a grey background similar to most maps.
We also included icons on the map for interesting things like public restrooms and pubs to name a few.
Lastly, we have a Day and Night mode for the map, so maybe if one works better than the other for you, you can leave that setting on the map regardless of what your device color scheme is.
Before we expose the color schemes to the user, we want to make sure all of the content on the maps is locked in, so for now its a little easier for us to do our best to make cycling features clear, and courses separate.
I have quick question regarding the new Dash units. Will you be able to plan route on the app then send it to the Dash via the app. Also can you create your own structured workouts using the app or will a subscription to Stages Link be required?
Intriguing, but as an owner of the current model Dash (bought as part of their blowout sale a couple months ago), their computer products are entirely unintuitive. I guess if you’re bought into their training ecosystem maybe they work better and maybe I’m spoiled by Garmin, but it feels like I’m using a product designed in the 80s.
I bought it as a second computer so I could leave one at the office and one at home. But I haven’t successfully /used/ the thing yet. Maybe it’s a matter of spending a couple hours with the documentation, but that’s never been necessary with any other GPS I’ve bought.
Maybe this update includes an OS for the last generation that modernizes its interface? That would be welcome.
I totally agree with you on the previous Stages, it was just kinda weird to navigate. More or less, the Stages L10 remains the same.
The Stages M50/L50 are definitely much clearer for sure, far better. That said, since the UI pieces are the bits that are furthest from refinement, I suspect things will change a fair bit between now and shipping (likely for the better though).
I am very sorry to hear that. I understand why you feel that way. I’d love to get you up and going on your Dash, and I know our customer service team is good at helping break down that barrier.
We made a huge effort on L10, M50, and L50 to make setup more intuitive and integrated with a very much so overhauled Stages Link app. You are also correct in that the 50 series are based on a much more powerful chipset and linux based OS.
Send us a note over on shttp://support.stagesdash.com/en/support/home and we will try to help you get going.
Thanks for being a Stages superfan! I hope to keep it that way.
I was wearing the Polar Vantage M on one wrist, and the COROS APEX on the other wrist. Off-hand I believe the COROS was paired to my Vector 3 pedals, and I’ve gotta look at see what the Vantage was paired to. Both were using internal optical HR, while the Stages M50 was paired to my chest strap.
For this test I wasn’t super focused on the power side of things (which looks slightly odd to me), since I didn’t really have the time to ensure all bits of the test were setup/controlled properly. Primarily for this test I was interested in GPS. HR was interesting to me, but since I was shooting/filming a bunch, that can occasionally impact optical HR, so I wouldn’t place major emphasis on that in this particular set.
Those look good and the feature set is close to perfection.
Can we hope for integration into multiple training platforms ? I do not want ot have to setup my zones in multiple places as they evolve (hopefully in the right direction). So ability to correctly interpret training instructions from Training Peaks would be a major selling point for me and probably the only thing preventing me from pullnig the trigger on those.
Also, is there a way to pilot an indoor trainer ERG mode once the structured workout has been loaded into the unit ?
We hear you loud and clear, especially when it comes to zones and workouts. I agree, there are so many ways to manage zones in so many places, and we hope to see some standardization in the industry going forward as well. I am not sure I fully understand everything you are asking, so let me tell you what we do have planned for launch and let me know if i missed anything on your wishlist:
* All .fit format workouts can be added to the Dash. Since TrainingPeaks stores absolute (specific wattage) values in their .fit workout files, you can be sure that all of your workout step targets are correct on the dash
* Zones at launch can be set using FTP and FThr on the Dash, managing up to 20 of them on StagesLink (they automatically sync to the Dash), or allowing the Dash to figure them out for you.
* Workout targets from any .fit workout file appear in the data field they define (so power targets appear in power fields).
* We have a full color, zone based, workout progress graph widget that will make seeing your whole workout and where you are in it very simple.
* All of your ride files can be pushed out to multiple training platforms using the BLE connection on the Stages Link app or USB using either the StagesSync desktop app or by simple usb mass storage device.
* We plan to integrate workouts into trainer control, which we will release during the summer so you have it in time for your winter (unless its summer for you right now, which we would be jealous of)
Syncing your exact zones from TrainingPeaks to the Dash will not be possible at launch, but there are more ways to manage your zones on the Dash than other computers, so hopefully while we wait for some standards to appear between the platforms, the Dash can serve your needs.
Re-reading my comment it was indeed not quite clear. Thank you for the details it’s helpful. I’m still not quite sure if it is exactly how I would use it though.
My main use case is :
– my coach puts workouts for me in TrainingPeaks
– I load it automagically on my garmin
– I ride in zwift.
It’s seamless and I never have to plug anything to anything. Would it work in the same fashion ?
As far as trainer control goes, your devices already have the ability to pilot a controllable trainer (i.e the workout calls for 300w, no matter which speed/cadence i’m in, the trainer varies the intensity of the resistance to match 300w) ?
I am fortunate to live in a place where it’s always summer ! But I ride on my trainer year-long as well.
Right away TrainingPeaks workouts from your calendar will not automatically push to the Dash via BLE like you are used to. You would have to export them and add them to the Dash manually. We are working on getting this to happen automatically from Trainingpeaks to the Dash, as we already do send completed rides from the Dash to Trainingpeaks.
Trainer control is right behind Radar integration for us. We are planning this based on a timeline for fall/winter users wanting to move inside later in the year.
For you, I think you should wait, I don’t want to disrupt your current system as it appears to work really well for the kind of rider you are. We will certainly have these kinds of integrations soon, but I’d rather you get on the Dash train once it’s uniquely ready for you.
I will note that if you used Stages Link, all of this is possible at launch, as well as course building, map region sync, and Dash settings management on the App and Web. We provide a free premium trial with all new Stages products (customized training plans and advanced analysis tools like compliance score and pro-tour level analytics) so maybe its something you want to try out right at launch. Ill let you decide.
We went big on battery to make sure we could power the brightest and highest resolution displays of any bike computer out there. So, indeed, as we continue to add features and optimize performance, look for our battery life to creep up past our quoted launch numbers.
Thanks Jim for you answer. That’s much bigger then the battery of a edge 520+. Who claims to have 15 hours batterylife.
Some other questions:
1.Are gpx files created by Osmand+ supported? These files contains turnbyturn info (contains almost the same info like a route fit file) and Osmand doesn’t need a internet connection to generate them.
2.Do you need a internet connection for sending a new route gpx/fit/tcx to the stage device?
I will check to make sure specifically OsmAnd+ GPX files are supported. I worry they create files similar to “route” files with only points on the route at navigation instructions, if this is the case, you would need to import them to StagesLink first, and then they will sync to the Dash once saved.
If they are exporting gpx files with trackpoints, we will certainly support them at launch. To make sure we support everyone, we have a new_files directory on our device that you can add a gpx course file to and use it on your Dash.
As for sending a file to the Dash without internet, via BLE the answer is likely yes, via USB no (as long as you already had a file on your computer).
It sounds like what you would like to see is a connection between our Link App and OsmAnd where, if you share a file from OsmAnd, you can see StagesLink as an option, right? In that case, although not supported at launch, we could send that file to the Dash via BLE connection without internet, as long as the file was on your phone already. Ive added a feature request for this, and we will assess how much work it will be and prioritize accordingly.
Supporting Osmand+ gpx files with TBT info would be very nice, because it gives extra opportunities to change the route on road without the need of a internet connection.
It will gives a hudge advantage compared to competitors, who are trying to invent the wheel again (a Dutch saying). They don’t come close to what OSMAND+ haves to offer. I think it’s a shame nobody take this opportunit.
Hi Jim, for long epic adventures the battery may run out, is it possible to charge while recording? Currently I carry a small usb battery pack in my jersey, and use it to charge Edge 520, Varia 500, Bontrager Flare RT, and phone. I’m able to charge the 520 and radar while in use.
Yes, the M50 and L50 do have this capability, while the L10 already has 24h+ battery life and cannot be charged at the same time as recording a ride. Maybe someday bikes will have a central battery that can keep all of our gizmos running happily through the night. If only we could all agree on a standard….
The units look really good, I like the midsize most.
I really couldn’t care less about Strava segment integration.
What I do find a pitty is no actual routing on the device (without smartphone), I really use this a lot and hate pulling out my phone during a ride.
Still some question:
– Will it do live tracking?
– Battery life is 15-18 hours, is this with mapping on and in the cold (the Edge 820 I have should have 15 hours as well but with mapping on and in the cold, it gets about 3 hours which is the reason I’m looking for something else)
Same here, Edge 520 battery life has become poor for me, more so since i started using the Varia Radar. Start to worry not on 4 hour + rides if the battery will last. Turn bluetooth, glonass off, etc and still it uses a lot of battery. Will be interesting to see battery life with all sensors and mapping on these new Stages units.
We hear you. Our design decision to allow the phone to participate in routing is very much related to the issues you are experiencing with your Garmin battery life. A big part of why we all dont just have iPhones out on our handlebars is:
1. To big (for me at least)
2. Battery life with the screen on and navigation running would be terrible!!!
3. Touchscreens and sweat dont mix
So, we went ahead and made the clearest and most cycling specific maps that exist on bike computers today! Our hope is if you load a course on the dash (simple to do with Stages Link!) and end up off course, you can use our super detailed map to find the safest way back without all the crazy reroutes the Garmin sends you. Also, without having to pull out your phone. You can use the pan and zoom features (as Ray noted, they are simple to use while viewing the map) to see where the course is if you are really lost, and simply look at our map for the best bike routes back to your plan. No phone needed!
We hoped to thread the needle here between battery life and ease of use for a cyclist using mapping and courses. I hope our simple zoom and advanced maps can help you overcome the lack of routing on the device, and even reduce the need to stop and reach for your phone.
Also because I have very good experiences with the Stages helpdesk after a little problem with the powermeter (very fast and direct answers, straight to the point)
We have a ton of respect for the Garmin units. We all ride bikes, so its not hard to imagine we all have used them plenty. Garmin knows what they are doing, so its always super risky to think you can do a better job than they can at the start of a project.
That’s why we went ahead and put massive batteries in the M50 and L50. No reason to think we would somehow figure out how to connect to 4 sensors at a time, and a phone, and have the best maps and workouts in the world, AND have better battery life than the Garmin! So, get went and got a bigger hammer to solve that problem, and we are now sitting comfortably with our battery life even with a lot of applications that have not been optimized for efficiency yet. When you compare the M50 weight to the 520, you will see the difference in battery size, but remember, when you consider the factory mount that comes with a Dash vs the one that comes with a Garmin, it makes up for the weight difference! We send you an aluminum arm in the box that connects to the side of the computer, something you currently have to buy as an aftermarket part for your less streamlined bottom-mounting quarter turn computers ;)
Last note: the L10 gets 24 hours of battery life! I know, its not color and does not have maps… but still, that’s a heck of a long time.
Really excited by the larger screens to replace my wahoo elemnt. Bit of shame about having no strava live segments, is this a definite no or might this be revisited??
It’s never going to be a no. We decided to focus on making every feature we were in control of super simple and powerful from a cyclist perspective. I am really sorry we wont launch with this feature, but for certain a result of not spending time on SLS has given us the ability to make the features you are used to much better, like an altitude profile for your courses that has colored gradients, or maps that can actually be used without a course, or workout targets that appear in existing data fields, etc.
I know, I’m deflecting, but we really wanted to make the best bike computer we can, and for a lot of us that meant simple to use maps, workouts you could actually follow, data fields you could read, education on training zones right in the ride screens, customization on the Dash, Web, and App, and a new, fully featured, Stages Link app that makes tracking your performance really easy. You will always be able to sync all your rides over to Strava through our Link app automatically via BLE connection, and see if you smashed your buddies after the ride.
Look for SLS down the road, but right now, were focused on making all the other features great for cyclists.
Jim,
Thanks for the update, really appreciate your honesty and where you are heading. I must say I am excited about the stage m50 and l50. Do I take the plunge??
I wouldn’t call it a plunge as much as I would call it a “conscientious uncoupling” or whatever the cool kids are saying. We all think the current devices are great, but it might be best for all of us to move on to new, more vibrant things :)
We’ve got a big team with an open mind for the spring and summer, so were ready to listen to you folks for what’s the most important thing to work on. From what I can see so far, maybe we should start working on our own radar!
I’d appreciate to hear from Jim on what they’ve done for location accuracy. Do all three units have the same satellite chipset? What systems do they use? (GPS, Glonoss, QZSS, Galileo, etc.) Do they do any kind of post-processing beyond simple sanity filtering… e.g. snapping to roads?
The location accuracy isn’t such a big deal during a ride, but it can be very important for accurate Strava segment matching……
Great comment/questions! The DC crowd does not mess around!
The new 50 series devices use a very reputable MediaTek chip with GPS (worldwide) and QZSS (Japan/Australia) as the main satellite systems for location, as well as the WAAS/EGNOS/MSAS/GAGAN satellite augmentation systems. No Glonass/Galileo you say?! Well, with GPS and QZSS and augmentation, we can get very accurate location and save battery life at the same time.
We’ve been to Australia, China, Taiwan, Germany, UK, and the US for GPS accuracy testing with the units and so far very pleased with the results.
This chipset was specifically designed for the fitness applications (aka, relatively low speed and low power consumption) and is showing very excellent first time to fix performance and accuracy.
We do not snap to roads, as that is a world of difficulty that we will leave up to the web platforms with infinite computing resources in the cloud. What we did focus on is getting every single data point we record in the file as accurate, from a hardware perspective, as possible. Therefore, no matter where you take your file, you can be sure the original data has not been messed with by any filter or otherwise well-meaning but poorly conceived algorithm. You can be sure your Strava segment matches will be accurate.
We know the industry is more and more built on the platform in which our customers prefer to plan/analyze their rides, so we hear you on this.
One of the things that caused some delay in our launch between Eurobike and now was adding accommodations in our software infrastructure such that we can handle more integrations down the road as companies become more interested in them. We had to make sure that we could easily provide a way for Xert or others to work with us and we will make it a priority to integrate with new platforms after launch. (FIT workouts are fully supported by dash, as are GPX course files, so we got you covered at launch)
Out of the box the Dash will be fully integrated with Stages Link, where you can customize your dash settings, courses, workouts, and map regions. We also have made massive improvements to our Stages Link App for iOS and Android which will provide all of our users a simple way to manage their Dash and rides from their phone. Stages Link also provides custom training plan options for riders based on a huge amount of variables, like your availability, skill level, and specific goals.
At launch, we already support, via Stages Link account connections (which is a model for other companies going forward):
– Strava
– UnderArmour
– TrainingPeaks
– Ride with GPS
We are 100% committed to each individual rider’s existing web platform, and never want to prevent you from accessing your data, so dont worry, you can keep using Xert. I just thought it was a nice opportunity to show how we are also trying to provide a great place to make riding more fun.
Looking around the TrainerRoad forums it appears you cannot export a .fit file for a workout. This means, like the Garmin, you would need to rebuild the workout in Link or another platform that supports .fit files.
I logged this as a feature request (support trainer road workout files on the dash) and will look into getting it in an early update. This would at least allow you to export the trainerroad workout and add it to the new_files folder on the dash.
For all the Garmin faults and problems, there is one thing going for Garmin – Connect IQ ecosystem. AFAIK neither dash nor wahoo computers have anything similar. Ok, most probably there is a lot of useless junk in CIQ store that half of the time creates more problems than work, but XERT has used the CIQ platform brilliantly by building its workout player app and XERT datafields – really the core of XERT goodness). My guess is that for equivalent functionality to appear on Dash, there would have to be concerted coding effort both by Stages and XERT. In that sense Garmin is much more open to third parties.
PS Being able to load an XERT generated workout file onto Dash is not IT, it’s the XERT datafields that matter.
That is a much easier lift for us, I have logged a task to reach out to TrainerRoad so we can add them to the list of platforms we automatically push ride data to. I cant give a timeline just yet, but those ones are much easier for us, as we already do this with Strava/TrainingPeaks/UnderArmour etc.
This is some of the best product feedback we can get, it’s totally worth the time! Keep the questions coming. We want to make the best computers in the world.
Garmin’s approach to 3rd party integrations is certainly great and seems to be starting to work really well for them.
We’re still pre-launch, so its tough to already have a bunch of 3rd party connections going on, as most companies will want to hear from people like you before they make an effort, like you said, to spend resources integrating with a new product.
We took a different approach, where we will not be a platform for other companies to develop complete applications on the Dash computers, instead, we built the dash in a way that a connected device can use the same components of the dash as our primary Dash software uses. In other words, we acknowledge that the smartphone is still the most powerful computer on the bike rider, and when it comes to app development, things go very quick in the iOS/Android world. Instead of supporting our own application platform, we have decided to make a robust BLE API that will allow applications to push data to custom BLE data fields like XERT does in CIQ (this is certainly a post launch feature!), subscribe to data we already record in the dash (an app can get power data, gps data, etc so it does not have to pair to your sensors or run GPS and waste battery), and put or get files like workouts, courses, and rides. Applications can also send overlay dialogues to get answers from riders and send notifications just to tell the rider something pertinent to that application.
All in all, for sure we are going to be trailing Connect IQ at launch, but I think the way we have approached CIQ type functionality will be lightweight for companies to use, and I would expect to see a few companies start to use this come trainer season here in the northern hemisphere. I would not expect to see much before then, however.
I just want you to know that we think CIQ is important, as a larger part of the “everyone likes different platforms” conversation. With Dash I hope you come for the best native features, stay for the big improvements using 3rd parties by trainer season :)
TrainerRoad links to Strava. So what I do today with my Garmin to get outdoor rides into TrainerRoad is: Garmin Edge 820 -> Garmin Connect -> Strava -> TrainerRoad
So since it looks like you will be able to do: Stages Dash -> Stage Link -> Strava, you would just need to enable the TrainerRoad Strava link
I am unsure whether Stages will support Xert. This is because the people who buy the Stages dash use Stages Link (Today’s Plan) to analyse their rides, workouts, plan their training and monitor their power meters. I like Xert but since using Today’s Plan I find it more useful on the whole. It’s like having a Personal Coach without hiring a Coach. I personally am a convert to the whole Stages Eco System. Also Stages customer service and support are second to none, they are always on point if you get into trouble. Keep up the good work Stages!
I agree, I have requested wake-up calls from our CS team just because they are so helpful, it would be a great way to start the day. Might be the only ticket they didn’t reply to in the history of Stages.
Its important to note, I think, that Stages Link is a VERY powerful training tool. We started working with Todays Plan a few years ago and have really grown together in making the new 50 series (dont forget, the L10 is already the best workout device out there, you can do a workout on the L10 and get compliance scores in Link immediately after the ride. Nobody does this, and its because we work with the guys at Todays Plan every day to make training better).
There is no other ecosystem that allows you to customize your devices, get customized training plans, build courses, sync ride data, build workouts, and best of all, try out all the tools the best coaches in the world are using to find ways to make their athletes better.
That said, nobody uses just one platform these days, and we are focused on making sure that we are an equal opportunity computer for all of our users. I use Stages Link. Bob uses Xert. Chapo uses TrainingPeaks. Ross uses Strava. All of us deserve a great bike computer that works with everything and is easy to use for everyone. I sat in Team UAE’s follow car before Tour Down Under last week and they were using VeloViewer.
The bottom line is, we think Stages Link is the best, but everyone is different. I hope everyone gives StagesLink a try, as it comes with a Premium trial with any Dash product purchase!
Thank you for your reply and replying to everyone too. Stages really do know how to connect with the public.
It’s great that you get 2 months free trail of Stages Link when you purchase a dash. This is how I got hooked. It is awesome to use!
It’s really impressive that another World Tour Team UAE are using Stages Products. I would like to know how Dan Martin is getting on with is Power Meter and Dash, especially as he has been a Garmin ambassador for years?
I have already told my bike shop to inform me as soon as they are in stocks.
I tell you what, talking to you is a lot more fun that trying to figure out how in the heck we will make a text entry widget that does not suck with only 4 buttons! Have you ever used the Amazon Fire Stick? Oh man, I nearly threw that remote against the wall trying to enter a password. Thankfully we have great App integration. Phew.
I just got back from Tour Down Under where we did some testing with UAE and got a lot of good feedback from them. We dont want to put the dash on your bike until its perfect, Garmin set a high bar to clear, and the last thing we want to do is negatively impact your performance!
If it were ready for Dan Martin it would be on the shelves for you to go get now. Keep an eye out for dashes on UAE bikes right around the same time your local shop calls you up and lets you know your Dash is ready.
I have another question regarding the new Dash. Is smart trainer control being implemented on these new devices. I am little concerned about it. We were lead to believe this was going to happen on the original but it seems implantation was dropped on the original. This is will be one killer feature for us in the UK for winter training!
I am really sorry that we couldn’t get Dash 1 up and running with trainer control, the processor and memory limitations of the device made developing that kind of feature, and others like mapping, beyond possible. This was not our intention at all, and I apologize. If this is something currently giving you grief, let the CS team know and we’ll try to work something out.
One of the benefits of the Dash 1 development is we now have a full bike computer built on some pretty lightweight hardware, and can release its better looking L10 update for $149.
When we started the 50 series project, we knew what we were up against from Garmin and Wahoo, so we significantly upped our hardware game. We have a super powerful CPU, 16GB of Flash, and a ton of RAM just to make sure that there would be no unexpected limitations down the road, even after we conquered all the things we already have ready for launch.
I’m glad you asked. I hope the features that do exist in Dash 1 are serving you well. We look forward to putting a colorful touch on trainer control before Fall.
I’m sure it has been mentioned before, also I seem to recall Ray using ‘cat ears’ or whatever they’re called on his helmet straps to reduce wind noise when riding, so the straps being held out by his glasses might be intentional. Although I’m going with ease of having his shades on before his helmet and him not really giving a damn! :)
Ray or Stages – is there any indication on if the Stages units will support the RTL-510 or Ant+ light protocols on the Bontrager lights? This is an important feature for me – data is all well and good but I want to make it home safely.
Wahoo is lagging behind on this implementation and may not implement it. I think it’s good business to support any safety protocols for customers.
We’re all riders here at Stages with loved ones at home that we all want to see again. I’ve personally begun to ride more bike paths and MTB trails because cars are such a risk for all of us. I think we all want to be that old fit person that the local news does a funny spot on like “local 99 year old still rides 5000 miles a year!!!”
Anyways, yes. Safety is huge for us. It’s unfortunate that we cannot quite get to a radar and light integration for launch, but trust me, it is 100% in our early plans for post launch features, because all of us here at Stages selfishly want it too. Like all of the features we do have, we want to make it right for cyclists.
Keep an eye out for a release announcement after our on-sale. Were on it.
Quick one: are there any plans to (or do you already) support Bestbikesplit race plans – the tcx or fit race file that gives goal wattages for sections of courses?
Good one! We accommodated for this in the underlying course software so its a matter of making the connection happen and releasing an update after launch! Some of our employees use Bestbikesplit for TT planning and we have had our eye on this for a while now.
First we want to make the best courses, workouts, maps, altitude profile, data fields, app analysis, web support, customization, visibility. Then, “What power specifically should i be doing right now on this uphill?!”
I just want to be clear, the 50 series will support Best Bike Split style courses after our initial launch, but we will not be able to roll that in to the L10. To add more features to the L10 we would need to get a more expensive computer chip, and we really wanted to keep the L10 as the best value out there, so Bestbikesplit style courses can only be added to the more powerful units.
I apologize if there was some confusion, I would hate to mislead you resulting in a disappointing experience later. You can still improve those “terrible” numbers with the amazing workout functionality on the L10, and then ignore all advice during your TT and just use the “shut up legs!” philosophy.
Yep! As long as your USB connection does not have a data pin, the Dash will not enter USB mode. That is true for all mobile charge packs (And some USB cables).
Please please please tell me this:
Do intervals auto-advance if longer than a minute now? the biggest failing of the current dash is that if i’m 2, 3, 4, x minutes in to a high intensity interval, i have to look down and press lap to get to the resting part
Great news! The 50 series will allow you to pick from 3 different auto lapping features:
– All laps automatically advance
– Active laps advance (this is defined in the fit file, and will fix the specific issue you are having)
– No laps automatically advance
A lot of companies are dealing with how to manage lap advance while still giving the user some flexibility. We primarily wanted to make sure that we had a setting where our “off” laps were a bit flexible, with stoplights and cars and all, while our on laps ended for us. Most companies are defining no time for off intervals, which is not good because very often there is a specific time dedicated to off intervals too! So, with this feature, I think we have handled auto lap advance in workouts better than anyone else.
Hi, will they have lap by position? It’s about the #1 feature request on Wahoo which they aren’t building, and is about the only thing preventing me moving to a device other than Garmin. Lap by position is incredibly useful for things like crit and circuit racing. Thanks!
Unfortunately at launch we will not support this feature. I have added a feature request for it to remind me of it for post launch feature rollouts. We’re certainly not opposed to it, but wont be able to provide it right away.
Reading through these comments shows just how many different platforms people are using to make riding easier for them. That’s why we made a folder on the dash you can add courses and workouts to, via usb, so at the very least sites like Komoot are supported using their GPX export feature.
Our number 1 priority was working with everything out of the box. We have a ton of platforms that we want to make it easier to use, by allowing you to connect your Stages Link account to a site like Komoot so we can automatically sync all your courses to your dash via BLE connection. Each one of those will require some work on our side and theirs, so we will try our best to get through to all of these platforms and connect our dashes to your courses automatically. One thing you can do is voice this request to Komoot so when I call them up, they know its a good investment of their time!
In the meantime, for sure, at launch you can drag and drop a gpx course to the Dash and ride it on our bright colorful maps.
We think the cycling dynamics are pretty cool, and do have LR Balance, Torque Effectiveness, and Pedal Smoothness supported on all Dash units, but when given a limited amount of time to make the most impact on our riders, we had to focus on making workouts exciting again, or maps easy to follow even without a course, and had to shelve some of the more advanced Pioneer style vector analysis metrics for a later date.
That’s a long winded way of saying, no, we don’t support the Pioneer cycling dynamics. We are trying to get the most amount of people out and riding, it looks like in that effort we didn’t hit your needs. Sorry about that.
I agree, it would be a lot better if we can just get the integration directly to Stages Link done for you. Its a high priority to get these integrations going ASAP.
Great to hear all the work and updates going into the new Dashes. Will there be support / options / firmware / upgrades the original Dash? I absolutely love the thing and don’t want to be left wayside. Maps isn’t a deal breaker for me as I was in it for the workout features. I had been a Today’s Plan user, but now to TrainingPeaks with the coach I work with – which is my only sort of headache with it right now. I’d probably go the Link route, but the cost, I feel, isn’t where I’d like it.
Anyways, thanks for all the work the Stages have put into these projects!
When we launch, give our CS team a call and they will get you sorted out.
What is your current TrainingPeaks annual cost? Is that the only thing standing in the way between you and Link Premium?
(For those of you reading this, Link Community will always allow you to manage your dash, use some ride analytics, and manage 3rd party connections for free, Patrick is referring to a more advanced version of Link called Premium which has all kinds of extra features like customized training plans and world tour quality ride analysis tools).
Mostly, yes, the cost. I got all the Today’s Plan features for 15/mo, Link was 20 and Training Peaks is 10/mo if you buy the yearly subscription. Really for the coaching service I use, the training peaks push is all that is needed and I definitely prefer to create the workouts in Today’s Plan for all the customization, but obviously have lost that ability with peaks. Pros and cons for everything and there hasn’t been one best solution, yet it seems like with what is planned that it’ll be closer soon! I just hope everything is followed through with the updates to firmware and such.
I’ll definitely give CS a call after launch! Your company’s CS has always been top notch. Which is why I have the dash and two stages pm’s!
Super interesting perspective. From just this comment section alone we’ve got maybe 10 different platforms mentioned, every one with different pros and cons (and pricing). It will be interesting to see what you end up with down the road. One of the benefits of having a super-powered analytics platform behind the Dash is the detail guys like you can get into.
We’ll keep doing our best, you keep an eye on the updates and I hope to see you on Link soon!
A couple years ago (Oct 2016) I purchase gen2 left-only and had a free trial with Link Premium. Last year I was paying for TP, TR, Zwift, Xert, and Strava. I’ve since stopped paying for everything except TrainerRoad, which I use for training plans to self-coach. The TrainerRoad calendar and analytics are good for basic analysis and getting better. For geeking out on ride data I use Golden Cheetah.
Last month I took advantage of the sale on your site and upgraded to a gen3 LR power meter. Was not offered another trial of Link Premium. Looking forward to the launch of the L50, and support for Varia 500 radar. I plan to call CS and ask for another Link Premium trial at that time, but its hard to see a compelling reason to pay for another platform with my TrainerRoad / Golden Cheetah combo. Hope that helps.
That makes sense to me, I feel kind of the same way with all my video streaming services i dont have time to watch.
Its a good chance for me to remind the DCR community that the new Stages Link App is very much so worth a deep dive, I dont know if that is Ray’s thing so much, but maybe we will put one together soon. Lots of good stuff on there for free, and of course, additional goodies for premium.
Man, this radar feedback is fierce! Im glad we did a first ride with Ray to hear about it!
I invested in the original dash (Well before the price dump … ouch) after Garmin started giving < 5 hours battery. Benefit of the larger screen for ageing eyes, plus liked the landscape format and the outstanding battery life.
But got increasingly disappointed that all the planned updates never materialised (Di2 info etc) and with the announcement of the new models seems original owners have been left out in the cold even more (and selling it on means giving it away given current prices).
Thankfully the mount is bulletproof so it now lives on the MTB, and trashing it in crash won’t totally ruin my day, while a wahoo replaces it on the road bike.
I just hope that all the promises are fulfilled this time around.
We’re really sorry about your first experience with the Dash. I’ve let our CS team know to look out for a note from you to work something out to make it right. Send them a note and they will take care of you.
As I noted to Clive earlier, we made some poor hardware decisions with Dash 1 that ended up limiting the number of features that could actually fit on the device, which is the main reason we know that the 50 series will not run into that problem. Huge memory, powerful CPU, and 16GB of flash will allow us to add features to the 50 series to our hearts content.
Question for Jim
Existing stages dash user and anxiously awaiting delivery 2018 cervelo R5
Ab 06 handlebar
Which,if any,of your mounts incl the soon to be released ones,will be compatible with this handlebar
Thx
That area next to the stem where a normal 31.8mm mount goes looks pretty tight! Have you held that bar and stem combo in your hands and noticed that the existing mount is too wide?
We’ll try to get a ruler on a set of those bars to check, otherwise we will have a new mount coming out with the new dashes that uses 2 rubber o-rings and hooks to go anywhere (called, creatively, the “anywhere mount”). If the out front mount does not work, send the CS team a note and we will get it sorted.
This is the one I can’t change or make better for you, we made some improvements to the mounts and the ring that surrounds the dash to make it look better and accommodate for more models down the road. This means I have to tell you the hard truth is we are not backwards compatible with our new mounts to the old dash. But, we are in a very accommodating mood over here at Stages because, that sucks! We really wanted to make sure the new mount was the best mount as we start anew with the Dash line.
The L10, M50, and L50 are all compatible with our new suite of mounts. Although writing this is making me want to 3d print you 10 adapters, which don’t exist and I would have to invent.
Really sorry. Drop us a line and we will see what we can do.
Will the new Dash head units be able to identify a specific bike from a specific sensor? E.g., if paired to power meter A, then the bike is X (road); while if paired to power meter B, then the bike is Y (gravel)
If so, then would the bike get passed on when syncing to other platforms? E.g., Strava. I’m testing bike garage to track consumable components (e.g., chains, cassettes) life-span, and bike garage gets ride data from Strava. To make this work, I have to correct the bike in Strava so that gravel rides are associated to my gravel bike, road to my road bike, and indoor to my dedicated indoor trainer bike.
First, we do save power meter metadata in our ride files. We track zero offsets and battery life of our power meters in Stages Link so our users can track the health of their stages power meters. We do not, however, take care of the bike portion of your request.
We realized that a lot of users have only one bike, and the presence of bike profiles on a device became a nuisance for those riders, so on the Dash we made activity profiles super flexible, allowing you to name them after a particular bike if you like and add those sensors to the individual profile. Or you can make a few different profiles for different types of riding and add all of your sensors to every one of them. This means we dont have any specific bike field to save to our ride files.
If we learned anything from making power meters and head units for a while now, its that if a feature is not simple and automated, its tough to get a lot of traction with your users. I hope the PM metadata is enough. Good luck!
Hi, I’m so looking forward to the release of the L50. I was a huge fan of the first dash, alldoh the absence of the gps navigation made me go back to wahoo. Also alot of problems with sattelite connection and problems with sync between link and the device. I’m certain all those problems are out of the way now.
My question is, can I allready start using Dash LINK to log my rides when using a wahoo elemnt? I don’t expect to be able to use all the ability’s. If so it would be great to get some practice with the platform.
Absolutely!! Stages Link accepts all kinds of ride file formats, and I know the good folks at Wahoo respect the FIT standard, so theres nothing keeping you from giving all the tools in Link (apart from the ones that allow you to customize your dash settings and manage your stages power meters) a try. It’s powered by Todays Plan, which is where all kinds of fancy tools are created for digging deeper into your rides than you knew you could.
Link app update coming soon too, so that will also work for you on your Link exploration.
We still support both on all units! We did emphasize an orientation for both units by designing the buttons along one edge, however, on both units when you mount them in their alternate orientation, the buttons are still readily accessible along one side.
Hi – While I currently use a triathlon watch vs a head unit these units look very capable and reasonably priced for the features.
I am interested in learning more about the ANT+ reliability in terms of data capture from a Stages Gen 3 power meter. I currently use a Garmin 920XT with a Left side only Gen 3 and have found the power meter readings to be unreliable. After trying all of the suggestions on Stages website it has improved but not to the point I trust the data. It appears that I will be buying a stationary head unit if I want reliable data from the power meter.
All that said when I am in the aero position (which is a majority of the time) the head unit will need to be positioned well forward above the water bottle (see attached pic) thereby having the same potential interference issues of water, aluminum, and plastic between the unit and power meter. Do you expect the M50/L50 to be able to overcome these and get reliable readings?
Im sorry to hear about the connectivity woes you are having with your watch. It sounds like you have had the full detail from the CS guys so I wont try to do a better job than they can here.
I have attached a picture of your bike with a few mounting solutions we will offer with Dash M50 and L50 computers.
My first suggestion would be to use the new top cap mount to center the device right where you can see it in your aero position. You could also use the anywhere mount in this same location (or on your top tube, which i often do for testing many head units at once).
My more out there suggestion would be to mount the device on the outside of your TT bars with the TT mount.
Two questions on this,
1 – Will the L10 have the feature to auto-determine FTP and zones as the M50/L50 ?
2 – Is there any kind of “livetracking” feature planned ? ( To let the wife know where you are).
I also had connectivity issues with Stages Gen2 PM along with Garmin headunits, as was almost at the point of purchasing the original Dash, but the lack of livetracking pushed me the Wahoo way.
But seeing this products makes me want it ! ( Along with the aging eyes ).
For me, if the L10 has the auto-zones feature, I can almost ignore livetracking at that pricepoint.
To go the L50 way, livetracking would be interesting, as at that price-point the competition has it ! ( Wahoo / Garmin / Lezyne that I know of ).
1. Unfortunately not. The L10 lacks the memory to do this. The L10 is, however, fully integrated to the new Link App and as always the Link Web platforms. We send you alerts when you achieve your best 20min power (and a whole slew of other records) during an uploaded ride, which you can use to indicate you need to think about updating your FTP.
2. With the new Link App improvements, we are certainly planning on adding this as a Link App feature in the near future. We’re still polishing off the fancy new sync process so all of the latest activity overviews, workout and course syncs, and performance analysis are working perfectly for launch.
So, that was not great news for you, but I think it’s important you get the right computer for your needs. Since live tracking is planned as an App level feature, when L10 has it, M50 and L50 also have it. The L50 is going to be a whole new level of visibility at its price point. The map and workouts alone are fully colored to make it simple to know what is happening at a glance, and the size of the display and resolution make it the best computer for aging eyes, no question.
Believe me, we have a super team of developers hammering out features at the moment, and we will be ticking items off the list. Look for the DCR In-Depth review of the new 50 series when it comes out, there is a lot of stuff in those computers that rethink features we all assume are the same.
The L10 seems great value, but the L50 is pure eye candy, from what has been shared, and we cyclists are anything but rational.
The colors seem a great improvement. I really like the leds on the wahoo and this seems even better.
If there an option to invert some fields as well it would be even more visible.
(Black background on Power for example)
Well, if I take your word on livetracking and the L50 is made available, I might order it and make my own review instead of waiting for Rays !!
Any deals planned for existing Power meter owners ?
Thanks again for the great feedback, this is where Stages really excels.
I’d say I have a past of getting suckered in to the shiny colorful thing in the past. Im not sorry about that.
All of our computers have an inverted setting (L10 its called Inverse, M50/L50 has day and night mode). Right now its looking pretty dang cool to see all those colors standing out on the dark background. I think it will be my default.
As the engineering guy, I am not privy to any past Stages power owner sales. The thing Stages Power meter owners do get with Dash is a way to track their zero resets and battery life on the Link website, which is pretty cool.
Hang in there, we want these things on the market as much as you do, but then again, we both want them to be great first. Soon!
I will say we picked a heck of a time to innovate on what we saw as a sub-par mounting standard, suddenly everyone is making custom aero road bars!
We want our computers to look streamlined and integrated with your bike, which is why we are setting up some small batch aluminum mount runs to accommodate our most aero of customers. In your case, these bars did not make it to my list (however they are on there now), so we made a mount that we know will fit every bar on the market: the Anywhere Mount.
You will for sure be able to use the anywhere mount. That will give us a little time to work through all the crazy new integrated bar mount ideas everyone has, until hopefully everyone agrees that 2 bolts lined up along the bottom of the stem is the way to go ;)
We are currently playing with that right now! Since we use the OSM, all of the text we could ever want is available to us to display, however, right now we are struggling to see if it is useful with all the bike specific styling we do on the roads, and with courses pushing navigational cues and points of interest in an overlay, we have yet to find a good amount of text to include that does not clutter up the map unnecessarily.
The important thing here is we CAN do it, but you will see, it might not be the best thing. Maybe we will make it a setting in the future, but I would bet that at launch we will keep that text off the map until we see a really good reason to include it beyond our navigational course cues.
Thanks Jim. Appreciate your response. I have to say that Garmin seem to strike a good balance with text on their maps. Wahoo and Lezyne don’t (seem) to put any street names which can make navigation in unfamiliar areas difficult. For my money a setting to enable different levels of text would be really handy. Anyway I’m looking forward to giving one of your devices a try when they’re available and we’ll see how it goes.
We will take a look. I know Garmin also lists the street in a status bar style at the top, something else to consider.
We really want to put our cycling specific maps out there and then grow into addressing these things with feedback from people like you. I genuinely wonder once you put a course on the Dash 2, with the quality of the maps, nav cues and elevation profile, whether you will want street names cluttering up the display. Or if you simply go for a exploration without a course, if you will prefer the cycling specific metadata we indicate with colors, or if street names would be a higher priority.
There is a whole page available that tells you the upcoming nav/poi cues! We also put a dot on the course path in the map to indicate every navigation and POI location.
We could certainly add an individual data field, that’s a good idea. We will add it to the list for post launch and it should come quick, it will not be difficult to do.
That’s great news! Can’t wait to get them out to you. I know you really mean just one of the two, but did you know, you could buy both an M and an L for less than a Garmin 1030? Just sayin…
Just might, I have 3 Garmins, 3 Stages would work too.
I have my Garmin 1030 mounted out front and was hoping your over stem mount attached to the right of the stem but it looks like it has to be mounted on the left side of the stem, same as Garmin. Its not reversible is it? I assume your Anywhere Mount can go on the stem also?
We left room for the Di2 controls often located to the right of the stem on MTBs, hence the left side mounting of our over stem MTB mount. I didn’t much consider the presence of another bike computer out there :)
I’ll bet you can stack the 2 mounts to the left, I’ve done this for multi computer testing in the past. And yes, the anywhere mount will handle any mounting challenge. I might also recommend ditching that Garmin 1030, ours has better maps and “maserati” workouts and zone colored data fields and a brighter display and…. that’s enough out of me.
Are any further updates for Gen 2 Stages powermeters in the pipeline? Many people still own these units and still have frequent power reading dropouts and connectivity issues. I have been through all the customer service options and the problem still persists. It seems that the signal was just to weak to provide a reliable connection with the head unit when these units were made. Can anything be done to resolve this? Can Stages do any sort of firmware release to resolve this for so many users?
I’m not cool enough to be on the CS team, so I can’t pull up your history with them to see the struggles you have patiently tried to work through, but what I do know is that while some people do have some connectivity issues, it is a small percentage of units shipped from Gen 2. I assume you’ve been through the gambit with the CS folks so let’s not get into it here. If it’s still a problem for you, get back in touch and let’s see if we can get you fixed up. We’re here to tell you your power, so lets make sure were doing that!
Thanks for your reply. Yes I am still having issues. Actually my Stages Gen 2 has never worked properly from the day I got it. Previously I had a Gen 1 unit which worked flawlessly for over 2 years, I never experienced any faults or dropouts with it at all until it finally succumbed to water ingress which as we now know was a common problem caused by the door seals on those Gen 1 units. I contacted Stages and after sending them some photos of corrosion in the battery housing they replaced it with a Gen 2, and I was very happy thinking my troubles were over. However since day one the Gen 2 has never worked as it should, with very frequent dropouts. I contacted Stages again very early in the piece and was told I must have been mounting it wrong! That I should mount it on the stem and not on my out front mount even though that is where the Gen 1 was mounted with never any problems. So I did mount it on the stem and it still didn’t work. I contacted Stages again and was then told to do a full reset of my head unit. I was reluctant to do that but I did it anyway because I was so hopeful of getting the dropout problem resolved. Unfortunately that didn’t work either and Stages said to send the device in to them for testing. I did that also including numerous printouts of my Strava files which clearly showed the very regular power dropouts. Despite this Stages sent it back saying they couldn’t find any problem with it and therefore would not send me another unit. Well I was very disappointed and still am, and my unit still doesn’t work propery. When the Gen 3 was released, Stages made a big song and dance about these new units having a 6 times stronger antenna than the previous Gen 2 which led me to think I was correct when I suspected that the Gen 2 units were indeed released with an antenna problem. Anyway if you are somehow able to resolve my situation I would be very grateful.
This is Aaron at Stages. I work for the CS team. Please reach out either to me personally, acasey at stagescycling.com or to our support portal support at stagescycling.com and we’ll see what we can do for you!
Like I just told Rob, were close. Turns out Ray nailed it in his video, as I believe tomorrow is March. Were close, but need to finish up the final bits before were happy to ship. We will certainly let you know when we do!
Were close. Were not done with the finishing touches on our launch features, but all the things Ive talked about in the comments are there. There are a lot of things that are not fun to talk about in the final weeks that you have to do before sending it off to the world. When we know, you’ll know.
I understand that the workout modes will be based primarily on power but wondering if they can be used with hr. I’ve got a few bikes but only one with a pm so being able to use a different metric when out on my gravel bike for instance rather than power would be great. And no I can’t swap the power meter around, different cranks and pedals so stuck with the pm on the road bike.
Absolutely! First of all, Dash will support FIT format workouts, so any of those you can get your hands on are good to go (workout graph included!). Stages Link allows definition of power, heart rate, and cadence targets for each workout step, so you are covered there as well. We also finally figured out the right way to allow our users to decide the age old question: Do workout steps automatically advance or not? Well, you choose! Pick all, none, or only active intervals to advance at the end of the duration.
You should ask me more questions about our workouts, because I like talking about it.
Sounds good. So it’s not just your workouts we’ll be able to do then, we can upload any we want? With your workouts are they individual ones or full programs on the head unit and what software can we use for analysis, is it your own or something like training peaks?
Sorry I missed this. As long as you are adding FIT workouts to the Dash, you are good to go. Were looking at the next file to support (erg, zwo).
I think we sorted the rest of this out in later comments. Link has full training programs and a workout library managed by Stages coaches. You can get a training program according to your needs and availability, and all those workouts are synced to your dash.
That’s great, can’t wait! Hopefully we’ll hear of the release via your newsletter so we can sell our Garmin’s before lots of others do and drag the prices down! lol
10 days! Ha! Been waiting on theses since last summer! lol Knew as soon as I saw the specs for the L10 I’d want one! Kind of glad they aren’t rushing it to market and using early buyers as beta testers so won’t complain, well no much anyway! lok
Ive added that feature request to our list, as we dont have pin dropping in the launch release. We do have a map that already places icons on things we thought cyclists would like, like bars, public bathrooms, bike shops, and coffee shops. So, in this case, we’ve already dropped a pin on the map for you!
Cheers for the response Jim (and on a Sunday too). It’s the remembering and returning to the pin after the ride that’s important to me, not getting there during the ride. The kudos I get taking my wife to a nice cafe ;-)
Ill note that in the idea, that makes more sense. Your general want is to log an interesting thing on your ride quickly. Maybe we can add a button to our zoom and pan menu for quick and easy pinning. We will think about it.
Does Stages have it’s own software to use with the head units? I’m just trying to decide which way to jump regarding training/monitoring software so if Stages has some it\d be worth a look before deciding. I’m leaning towards Trainerroad but understand Stages have a lot of workouts on their units, is this backed up by any PC software?
Yup, and honestly, it’s really damn good – easily the best out of any of the head unit companies in terms of depth.
You can see a bit of it on my previous original Stages Dash review, especially the website. Though, the mobile app has been significantly updated since that review.
After asking that, I remembered it from your video. It’s a skin over Today’s Plan isn’t it with a few extras. I’ve used that during a academy thing with Zwift and Dimension Data. It was pretty good but a bit pricey if I remember. Any idea on the cost?
All new Stages customers get 2 months of Premium free. After that its either $20 per month or $200 per year.
As Ray mentioned, Link is crazy powerful. For $20 per month, you can get fully customized training plans that sync to your dash and guide you step by step through your workout, with color coded compliance and a workout graph colored by zones.
As Ray also mentioned, we have completely revamped our app to bring the power of Link to the mobile user. There is a very powerful community version of the app that will allow you to automatically push rides to linked sites, review activities, and analyze rides.
I think the pricing is still high on Link. Pros and cons with everything – Link, Todays Plan, TrainingPeaks… Dash is by far easiest to use with Today’s Plan or Link and designed that way. Wish that it was more interoperable with all platforms, but I get it.
Re: indoor training – I have the original Dash and as of right now, I can’t get the GPS to turnoff for indoor rides. Not a big deal, just when it pushes to Strava, your two hour ride will will be a few minutes from all your side to side rocking on the trainer! All other data still updates fine to other training platforms.
The new Dashes will allow you to turn off GPS indoors to avoid those annoying scribbles that Patrick is referring to indoors. Apart from that, the dash can pair to your sensors and trainers with power and report all of that normally to the UI and in the ride file. Were aiming to do a bunch of cool stuff this summer before we add trainer control (plan to have it out just in time for us northern hemisphere folks to enter the pain cave).
We made a lot of effort to make sure all of our Dash customers can take their rides anywhere they want by supporting the FIT ride file format. We also added the ability to add workouts and courses to the dash via USB so you can ride just about any workout or course file you can find on the dash, Link or not. While link brings you a lot of extra stuff, like syncing calendar workouts, calendar and favorite courses, map regions and managing all your settings and page layouts for your dash, we still understand people want to take their Dash elsewhere. That’s also why we wiil expand the number of 3rd party ride pushes we support so you can get your ride files sent automatically to your 3rd party accounts through the automatic syncing of rides to the link app or web.
Thanks Jim. Appreciate the insight. I can’t help but to think Link could be suited as a tiered package. Free version, silver, gold or something similar. Gold has all the features you spoke of and silver doesn’t have all the workout / coaching programs that not everyone needs if they are self coached or have their own coach.
Aside from that off shoot, when importing FIT workouts, will the lap text still be available? In my opinion, that was absolutely tops in the workout feature and the main reason I went with the Dash – being able to know what was up next, see all my laps and have a on screen text in the workout saying the goals for the particular interval or a nice little motivational quote :)
When we push the new app, and since you are already using Link you will get the update automatically, you might consider it at a silver level of functionality.
That said, its a great suggestion. Ill bring it up.
For the new Dashes we’ve only improved on that, check out the image I attached to this task, its a feature we are finishing up testing right now and available at launch!
Cool! Link / Today’s Plan was great to use when building the workouts with the intervals and the calendar sync was awesome – being able to just have everything pushed to the Dash automatically was great. If those features were available at a competitive cost, I’d definitely come back from Peaks.
Hi Ray, great platform you are maintaining!!
I am looking for a device that has navigation map and elevation profile in one screen, but zoomable. In few devices (eg navi2coach) one can both zoom out on the elevation profile to overview what is ahead and zoom in to estimate the distance to the summit. It would be great to have this next to a navigation map or breadcrumb trail in a split screen or, alternatively, on two subsequent pages. Would the L10 or M50 be able to do this?
Hmm, I’d have to defer to Stages on that one right now (they’re here in the comments frequently answering questions), as I don’t remember off-hand and don’t currently have the new units yet.
Like this picture I just snapped of my test unit? Thats a gradient colored elevation profile with a course and a power and heart rate field all on one page, that i just made custom for you. Our map has an elevation profile option you can enable to view it along the bottom like pictured, and since our map is a data field, you can add it to any page, in any size, to see any data you want to see at the same time as you follow a course or explore the cycling map (note the brown trails, that’s the bike park in Boulder).
We are not zooming the elevation profile with the map quite yet, but you can add a data field called “ascent to next” which gives you the amount of climbing to the next navigation cue or point of interest on the map. If you build a course in Stages Link, and add a POI to the top of a climb, you wont even have to zoom in to know how long to go. Also, our elevation profile shows progress along the course, and with the high resolution, its pretty easy to tell how much more fun (or suffering) remains.
Ill add your suggestion to our ideas list. Its a good one.
Hi James, thanks for clarification.
The map as a data field is ingenious, as is having the elevation profile in different colors for ascending and descending.
An elevation profile of a whole course on such a small screen, however, is quite useless in terms of rider info when doing a hilly 150+ km ride. Adding POI’ is what I once tried with another device, but it is a whole preparation puzzle each time to get your course ready.
I wonder why some devices only show two miles and others only the whole course. My suggestion would be to add a data field with elevation profile of 1km behind and 4 or 5 km ahead.
Thanks for the compliment! We think making everything a data field is just simpler. We do have a few full page things like the navigation cue sheet and workout step sheet that we require be full page fields, but otherwise, its free reign out there. Make a 1×1 map if you want, does not bother me (might not be super useful but who am I to tell you what you like?).
You are right, a course that large will not produce an elevation profile with the kind of detail you are looking for (although, wait until you see the L in Landscape mode, it just might be enough for you right out of the box). Making the elevation profile its own data field is already on the list of things we plan to do, which will allow us to expose a setting to the user to manage their zoom level. I dont know why other companies do what they do, but for us, this should be relatively straightforward and we will have it quite soon after launch.
An adapter that allows me to use one of these new stages unit on those fancy garmin mounts that screw in using your stem bolts. Simply lock it into your garmin mount and away you go. Or, if copyright is an issue, a file that would allow one to be 3d printed
Questions:
1) Will these units show traditional TSS, NP and IF after a given ride (and during that ride, as they refresh/update?)
2) Will these units show CTL/ATL and TSB (and will this be on the unit itself, via Link, or both?)
2) Will these units show an estimated FTP based on accumulated ride data (and will this be on the unit itself, via Link, or both?)
3) Will the workout functionality be as usable on the black and white version as on the colour version (in other words, does the interface rely on colours, or will the actual data fields and widget layout stand on their own?)
Really hoping this can (finally) be the successor to my trusty Edge 500. As you can probably tell, I care for numbers, not for maps, strava, radars…
Since this forum has been so excellent in logging features for us, we created a public ideas log for anyone to request a feature of the new Dash computers:
1. Yes!
2. You can view these metrics in Link web or app (not on the dashes yet, although I logged a feature request in the public ideas log for it). In fact, each ride detail view of the link web and app show you how the ride changed those values.
3. We do not show an estimated FTP on the Dash, and I have added this to the ideas log.
4. Great question, and yes. The colors are a benefit of M50 and L50, but absolutely not a requirement to follow a workout. We present text for each target and duration for each step, and on all devices there are ways to see text of upcoming steps as well.
Yes, was hoping they would be ready for the start of the season, not looking likely. Starting to consider other options, and may have to “settle” for something else.
Jim at Stages replied “Very Close” in comment #159 on March 1st. Three weeks ago. I’m sure they have good reason for the delay, but one typically wouldn’t assume “very (close to release)” to mean nearly a month.
Unfortunately I leave for training camp tomorrow morning with no new Dash M50. :(
I did not mean to mislead any of you by saying very close, I think for me, after working on this project for nearly 2 years now, a month to 6 weeks seems in the very close category. I realize that may not be totally apparent to anyone not sitting at their desk at 8pm responding to comments on DCR :)
We’ve got a huge amount of stuff rolling out together: L10: The cheapest most powerful bike computer out there. M50: Cheaper than Garmin 520 Plus, better courses, better workouts, better maps, better data. L50: M50 but bigger and lasts longer. Link app: Easy macro analysis, detailed micro analysis, manage your Stages computers. Link web improvements with a course builder, pro tour features, workouts, and data push to 3rd parties.
We’re in the final stages of testing all of this new stuff now, which certainly takes a lot of time to get right. Im with you, trust me, I want this stuff out there as much (more?) than anyone, but not until its the full system we want, as bike riders.
Thanks Jim, certainly never meant to imply you were being misleading, its just tough waiting for new gear sometimes. I love my Stages LR power meter and have been using the Link web which I find more comprehensive already than any other training logs I’ve used. Can’t wait to see the improvements and I’m first in line for an L50.
Thanks for your time here its appreciated as always.
While I really can’t wait for the L10 I’m really pleased you aren’t pushing it to market half baked. So I’m happy to wait for what I think will be a game changing product.
You have every right to be frustrated! As does anyone else in this thread hoping to try something new, and try it as the season ramps up. I think as Ray often points out, or at least something I pick up on as a part of the development side of these products, cycling companies can’t meet the same aggressive and incredible schedules as a company like Apple, which we all have come to expect as normal, so often we push these things out too soon.
The only reason its not in your hands right now is it needs to meet the expectations we all have of our integrated technology products, which is a different expectation even from 2 years ago. The thing about these kinds of integrations is they can’t really be half baked, hence also not putting a release in Ray’s hands to pick apart. For us, once it’s ready for him it’s basically ready for you. There is no middle ground between “create a Link account, make a bunch of workouts or 3rd party connections, and sync your files and settings all over the place” because once one setting or file is synced, they basically all are.
Anyways, we’re taking a technically heavy stance in this forum thanks to Ray’s audience, mainly because we hope you all find it useful. Thanks for sticking with Stages, there’s a ton of cool stuff on the horizon!
Unfortunately, it is not. We made some adjustments to the look and functionality of the aluminum-aluminum interface for M50 and L50, and also retooled everything for the L10 to make that family of computers all work with a more future proof mount.
We are very open to working with you to accommodate whatever difficulty this causes you, so feel free to drop the CS team a note if this ends up being an issue for you.
I’m an cyclist (and coach) who does elite races in Belgium, where cycling is in it’s most popular place in the world, and there are a lot of riders and teams changing from Garmin, Wahoo, Brighton, etc to other brands because it never answers their needs.
So me and some others are waitig to test the Stages M50, but the main question is obvious. Have you any idea when it’s gonna be available on the market? I do understand and apreciate the idea of not rushing it in the end, but is the release in a few weeks, few months, half a year?
And does Stages wants riders/teams in Belgium (Flanders) to ride and promote it?
We’re on a weeks basis for sure. We have a few things that need to be sorted out and tested, but our testers are starting to report more great experiences than issues, which is right where we want to be!
You can always contact our marketing department for any sponsorship requests. We’re always all ears for those things, even if it may or may not work out.
While we’re waiting ;) A question about on the road workouts. Can I program say a half hour sprint intervals session and call that up when I’m at a suitable bit of road, do the workout and go back to my ride and have it all appeare as one ride after?
Yep, that is possible on the M50/L50, there is an in-ride menu that gives you full access to the Dash. However, we did something cool on these units you may want to consider:
You can set the Auto Lap feature on the dash to be always on, active laps, or always require a lap button press.
In most workout builders, when you define an “On” interval, it actually is defined as such in the FIT workout file, which allows us to expose a setting where only active intervals automatically end upon completion of the prescribed duration. This way, you can define a warmup effort for your workout that is basically endless (requires lap button press), without sacrificing the convenience of auto lapping when you are pinned at the end of an active interval.
Nobody is doing this. We hope to push the industry towards this convention, but for now, we’re the only ones :)
So not on the L10 then, pity :( Aren’t us with less money allowed such things. I get that some features have to go on cheaper models but these are training platforms and not including key training features seems a bit mean. I’d rather have those than mapping to be honest. I’ve got a GPS with way better maps than any head unit in my pocket. What I haven’t got is a full featured training device. I thought the price difference between the units was size and screen, not features.
Jim, on another subject. If you are looking for testers and reviewers, I’d give a guy called Jasper Verkuijl a shout. He’s a elite armature racer and got a decent and growing following on YouTube. I also know he’s fed up with his Bolt dropping out on him. I’ve no connection with him other than been follloing him for a while.
If you wanted to do this on the L10 it would be easy, but just a little different:
L10 workout steps auto lap when they are under a minute, when they are over a minute you need to press the lap button to advance to the next step. So in your example, if you built an interval that was over a minute for the first step of the workout, you could ride it for the rest of the day and the Dash L10 would happily wait patiently for you to move on to lap 2, where you could start up some structure. That’s pretty common in all the library workouts you have access to as a premium member of Link.
Na, we are not trying to mess with anyone. We would pack the L10 with a ton more features if there was space on the hardware, but the simple fact is the cost goes up to get more computing power, RAM, and storage on the device. We simply can’t put more on it, it’s not even a choice for us!
The L10 will still be the maserati of workouts, as Ray said. We are the only company that can provide Power, Heart Rate, Cadence, and RPE targets, with text cues, all at the same time. And we are also the only company in the world that gives you a compliance score after your ride in Link by using your actual workout data compared to your ride data. That’s pretty spiffy for $149.
Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot more features in the M50 and L50 than there are in the L10 by virtue of what hardware we are able to buy, nothing else. We don’t sell you a computer without power on it, and have an upcharge for that feature on the (seemingly) exact same device like someone else i know ;)
Hi jim i know this one is for biking and mtb but can you use it as a hiking gps or is that really not going to work
Is the map not detailed enough for hiking
Gr dennis
There are a lot of times when I am mountain biking that a hiker could probably pass me!
Some hiking specific devices are optimized for slower movement, or track steps, and maybe that would give you a bit better data in that we do not show you step count. You could certainly track your elevation, climb, descent, distance, time, speed, etc like you would on a bike, even heart rate! Currently our activity files are marked as cycling, so we would sync your activity as such to Link or other sites, but you can edit that, and I will log an idea in our portal to allow you to somehow change the activity type on the dash or the app. Its a good idea. Any other ideas, log them here: link to dashpublic.ideas.aha.io
Oh for the love of God release them already ? Got money waiting for one but seen some nice Sidi shoes! Already got 3 pairs but I’m weak, so I need saving from myself ??
My apologies if this has already been posted. I don’t currently train with power (though I might some day). My 9 year old Garmin Edge 800 is ready to be retired. What I’m especially interested in is a great mapping device with great color and contrast for readability in the bright sunshine we get here in Florida. The color-coded elevation strip charts sound fantastic. They’re completely unnecessary down here in Florida, but I’ll travel anywhere for a good climb. Distance to next local maximum would be very helpful as well. Is this the right device for me?
This is why we pushed so hard to get a bright color display and incorporate the OSM into the Dash L50 and M50. We dont show you the distance to next local point on a map, however, if you create a course in link you can add a POI at the top of a climb, and the Dash has a data field called “distance to next” as well as “ascent to next” which will show you the distance and ascent to the next POI or navigation cue on the course. In this case, once you are on the climb, you will have exact distance and ascent remaining.
Not sure if this is still the relevant place to post this, but it seems that the units actually popped up on a website. At this place they seem to be selling the L50 and the M50 (warning: website in Dutch, couldn’t find a translate button).
Both are actually labelled to be in stock. However I have my doubts about these, as the release is not quite here yet (from what I understand). (Furthermore, they also seem to have the L10. However, looking at both the pricing and pictures, it just seems to be the existing dash.)
Is this just a scam or are some units really finding their way to the market? Maybe someone could clarify why this is happening.
At this moment in time I am still in doubt which system to get (Bolt, 520, M50), but soon I will need to make a decision. Really hoping that at that point a comparison will be available. This actually is not a point of critique, I applaud that you are doing your best to create an awesome and well functioning device.
There are no L10, M50, or L50 computers for sale anywhere in the world. Any reference to them being on sale should be avoided. If we were selling them right now I would be in this comment section yelling to the heavens about it.
Thanks guys, it looks like they’ve used some M50 artwork to sell a Dash 1. We are working with them to resolve the problem. Could just be an honest mistake.
I just saw on Stages’ Instagram that they said “Hopefully May” in response to someone asking for a release date there.
I appreciate they want it to be perfect, but I don’t get how the big hype followed by constantly slipping release dates is good marketing… I know nothing official has ever been announced, but it seems like we’re getting unofficial dates that don’t materialize. Ray’s comments above say “they’ll say February, but I’d put my money on early March”. Well, now it’s mid-April and latest word is “hopefully May”.
This is all very frustrating. I bought two of the original Stages Dash on the promise of maps, etc. That never happened. Now I’m stuck with those and four mounts that won’t work with the new devices that are perpetually delayed. Feeling kind of bate-and-switched by Stages.
Disappointing to see the May release mentioned in the Instagram post, after this slipped from last fall to February, then March, and now April looks doubtful. Velonews editors showed pics of the M50 they used in the Tour of Flanders Sportive last weekend and the WT sponsored teams are using the units as well, so they have units being used. Ray’s update earlier this year seemed so positive. This makes me wonder if they are having more problems than expected with the software??
I am personally heading to France this week to do some final testing with the UAE team, both to review software as well as put the mounts and computers through their paces on the cobbles.
I do not want you guys to feel like we are here to dupe or mislead you. Kristoff did just do some media for us, and we did run the Velonews editors through the units for Gent-Wevelgem, but the only units in the world right now being ridden actively are our beta group of testers, reliably reporting issues and making sure things are good enough for my trip this week, and then for launch.
Ancker,
I have notified the support crew that you feel this way, we don’t want to leave anyone in the lurch here, so please drop them an email: support@stagescycling.com. We’ve got some ideas to make sure your concerns (Maps and Mounts) are taken care of.
Moritz,
We plan to announce timing once we get through Roubaix with the team.
Jamie (and others that feel similar to you),
Anyone who reads Ray’s site knows how many companies have come at Garmin and failed. If we have a problem, its that we understand how big of a task it is to replace someone’s computer/app/web cycling environment with a better one. When I say “someone” that can mean Dan Martin, Moritz the well read cyclist, the rest of the folks in this comment section, or someone much less fast, or well read, or has never read a word about a cycling computer in their life, but wants to turn on a bike computer and actually say “woah, look at that, that’s so cool” without having to dig around for some feature they can add to a data field or 3rd party app. It’s our goal, and we are sticking to it.
I appreciate your and everyone else’s feedback here. We even have some folks logging feature requests of their own in our public log: link to dashpublic.ideas.aha.io
On to Roubaix, thankfully I’m not the one bolted to pro tour bikes on the cobbles (although you may enjoy seeing that ;) )
I kniw me and some of the others have been giving you a hard time regarding the release of these but from my point og view it’s just frustration based on wanting to get one. Don’t think for a second you are being misleading about anything. You are totally right, to take on the other players your product has got to be right from the start. Garmin can get away with releasing half baked products because they basically own the market but if you do it, that could kill it before it starts. Makes sense testing through the classics season, if they survive that they’ll survive anything we can throw at them. To be fair, there’s probably only a handful of us following this as close as we are, so don’t think your marketing is off at all. Everyone else will just see the launch and benefit from the time you’ve taken. Lastly, I think it’s great someone like yourself takes the time to come here and answer our questions and keeps us honestly updated. Cheers buddy.
Garmin have now released 2 brand new computers the 530 and 830 along with new sensors. I have been very much been looking forward to the new Dash as I love my Stages power meter and wanted to buy into the whole Stages Eco System. However it seems that Garmin have trumped the new Dash. Garmin new climbing metrics look amazing along with their mapping. These new metrics telling where you are on the climb and other useful data is exactly what I was hoping from the new Dash. It is such a shame that Stages can not do these climbing metrics. To be fair I’m a little disappointed. I was going to be a sure fire customer for the new Dash. I will now have to rethink my purchase. If Stages Link was a lot cheaper and the new Dash gets similar or better updates than the new Garmins then I might reconsider. In my humble opinion the better value for me and cheaper option also probably better option is to get the new Garmin and search for a more cheaper training tool to work with. I am too not they only person thinking this?
I’m sure you aren’t on your own but from a lot of comments I’ve seen about the new garmin units is that there’s too many features. Looks to me like they’ve loaded them up with everying they can think of regardless of its real world use. Most would just be software things so I’m sure if there was call for it, Stages could do it. Plus, I’m never beta testing for garmin again! Want a bet these have been rushed to market because of the Stages coming out soon?
That’s pretty cynical David. Maybe they’ve come out when Garmin wanted them to, and stages are just way way late. You’ve already ‘launched’ yours twice and you still can’t buy them.
Garmin are tried and tested market leaders in this field.
“Want a bet these have been rushed to market because of the Stages coming out soon?”
The exact date Garmin planned to launch these units has stayed consistent since at least January (the first I heard of them).
Garmin typically has exact launch dates (to the minute/day) locked 6-9 months in advance, often upwards of 12 months in advance. Sometimes things might slide a week or two (out), as Garmin has shifted more recently to announcing only when full production is underway (to try and have product availability at/near launch day). Far too many people underestimate the massive machine that is Garmin manufacturing/distribution/availability. It’s a core reason why they’re as successful as they are. They own everything end to end, even Apple doesn’t have that (on paper, in practice they kinda do).
David, I completely disagree with your comments. Firstly you can never have enough features. You then can appeal to the masses. Garmin have listened and perhaps looked into what features us riders want. For me it is the ClimbPro. I think a lot of us want this on Stages too. I know that Hammerhead have just or in the process of having this implemented on their units. I also want a Computer to control my trainer. I have an original Dash and I have to use my 820 to control my indoor trainer. Also the Garmin units can used across all cycling genres. There are features for MTB, XC and roadies which I personally am all for! I do wish Stages listen to their customers, if they do I’m sure they can produce an excellent unit.
Garmin (like Apple in Rays comparison) has lots of fan boys, so it is not easy to get unbiased reviews/opinions.
From past experiences I always got disappointed with Garmin, exception for the Edge 500.
Everything else I owned ( Fênix 2, Edge 810, Edge 820 ) promised lots of features but failed in the basic stuff, like accuracy, battery life or stability.
Fenix series of watches cannot get stable GPS anywhere, so all the fancy vo2max etc etc is based on wrong data.
Edge 820 had everything you could imagine but was constantly dropping Power meter data ( again fancy ftp and whatever calculations based on wrong/absent power Numbers) and battery life when navigating was under 4 hours.
Not to mention strange barometer behaviors from time to time.
I checked this with other owners, all reported similar behaviors. Garmin support is useless.
They work well on ocasions, but are not reliable.
Surprisingly, reviews are always good.
(You can check Garmin forums for feedback from actual owners that used their own money).
Getting off topic, but I would have bought a new Stages L50 last month… Now, maybe wait to see the Elemnt Roam, Garmin is simply not an option for me.
I think stages have missed a trick now. With wahoo and Garmin releasing new products I don’t think stages will get the running start they would have done if they’d released earlier.
I’m waiting for the wahoo now but the 830 is very tempting
So now we are in May and Garmin has released the 530/830 which appear to solve some old issues and have some cool new features and a very positive review from Ray. Wahoo releases a product that is underwhelming but still no word from Stages.
Releasing a good competitive product in this space is clearly very hard. With the dates continuing to slip for Stages it makes me think they must really be struggling with getting the software to be where they need it and makes me worry about being an early purchaser.
Its disappointing and who knows, it could be another 6 months. The offerings from Garmin are tempting. If there is no update on Stages by the time the Garmins are available to purchase in about a week I’ll probably pull the trigger on the 530.
I’m still holding out. May was the latest guidance from Stages themselves. Hopefully they follow through.
The Garmin devices certainly look tempting, but I escaped that ecosystem after several failed 500s, and three bad 510s. They finally replaced my last 510 with a 520 and I promptly sold it and bought the Stages. I really don’t want to re-purchase all those Garmin mounts I sold…
My two Stages have worked absolutely perfectly every time I hit the power button. No more wondering if turning it on would corrupt the config, or if the GPS would just suddenly stop working, etc.
Even though my Stages didn’t get the promised features, and I’m a little grumpy about that, it still works a million times better than my experiences with Garmin. If the new devices have the stability of the original Dash, I’m going to be happy.
Same here Ryan. As I’ve said before, I don’t fancy beta testing for garmin again. Pretty much everything they release has problems. Maybe stages will have some too but I’d rather my money went to them than garmin.
Things appear to be very close. Those graphics are brand new. I’ve never seen the app images yet either.
Perhaps Stages is lining things up and this place accidentally published early?
My local shop got some 530’s in yesterday and they held one back for me. If June is the new date for Stages glad I didn’t wait any longer since I needed a new unit.
Everything from Stages on this product release seems to be a “wink, wink, nudge, nudge.” If Stages hasn’t had an internal team meeting to address where this project went horribly wrong then shame on them. Nobody like to be jerked around.
February becomes March, March becomes April, April becomes May, May becomes June…
If it’s released early June, product will not ship til close to July.
I, like most of you, have been extremely patient while listening to empty promises.
I know there has been a wait, but we finally are ready to go! We will be globally launching the L10, M50, L50, and new Link apps for iOS and Android on June 10!
We really appreciate the feedback we received early on, and I also appreciate that some of you are frustrated with the time between this article and launch. We had to button it up and get it right, so hopefully that decision is a long term benefit in exchange for some of the frustration.
Now that we see the competition, the M50 and L50 will be the only truly full color bike computer of the new computers released this spring, making the mapping, workouts, courses, and colored data fields a totally new experience for bike computer users. Like I keep noting internally, we have (free!) global maps that you can use with or without a course for exploration of biking specific roads and trails all based on the OSM, we have colored by gradient elevation profiles for all you climbing fans out there, we have data fields that teach you about zones without any prior knowledge, we have workouts on the device out of the box that anyone can ride to see how much better training with the Dash is than anyone else, we have a completely redesigned app that allows you to simply sync your rides to 3rd parties or go deeper in Stages Link with some exciting new tools to get information any level of rider cares about (hey, how many calories did i burn this week, this month, all time?! Look guys, Im a calorie burning machine!), and we have the L10, which at the price point, nobody can get close to the features and quality.
I’ll be here in the comments after Ray’s review to make sure we are taking on any suggestions/feedback you all have, as that has been very useful. Looking forward to it!
June 10 is when we plan to have the Dash available to buy in stores or online. We are shipping to our distributors before that date to make sure Dashes are available to by on that day.
Hi Jim,
Are you able to share the UK list prices ? We’ve seen the US and Canadian prices already.
I’m holding out for the Stages computer, seems to tick all the boxes for me.
Andy Helm
Thanks Jim. Really looking forward to this and happy there is a solid release date now.
That being said, I know you had previously said current Dash users can contact CS and they’ll help us out with getting setting up with the new Dash and mounts. Hopefully the parameters of that program will be good to those customers (I’ve had two Dashes, one skyrocketed off the mount [my fault] and into a ditch and the replacement has minimal GPS and sensor pickup issues). When will those users be able to reach out to CS and get the ball rolling? I’d like to get squared away, up and running before Tour of America’s Dairyland :)
Hey Jim, that’s great news. On the subject of mounts. Is there a option to have a gopro style mount under the unit. I have my front light mounted under a out front mount and want to keep a similar setup if possible.
Yes, the M50, L50 and L10 mounts will have a bolt pattern on the bottom for accessory attachments. We will sell a GoPro attachment at launch allowing you to seamlessly mount anything that connects to a gopro interface right under the dash.
Yes, get a hold of CS and there is a plan there for you. I think you should contact them a week before on sale (June 3) to get the ball rolling.
Hey, great to hear you are doing ToAD! I grew up in Wisconsin with Superweek and ToAD, taught me how to be a tough bike racer. Good luck out there! Cant wait to see a new dash riding the streets of Wisconsin.
Awesome Jim! Thank you! Great to hear about the underneath mount too – will be nice to put a light, etc., for a clean look.
And if I recall, Geargrinder, right? I think I was just getting my feet wet racing and host housing when Kenda / Geargrinder took the overall at Waukesha. Good stuff!
It certainly is a great racing scene we have here! Intelligentsia Cup isn’t too shabby either. I actually happened to park next to Ben Sharp from Stages when the original Dash was coming out at one of the Intelli Road Races and he sold me on the Dash. Be good marketing for y’all to come out here again!
Not sure if you are still monitoring, or too busy with the pre-release stuff ;-) You put prices as GBP £249 for the L50 and £199 for the M50. Is that correct as you might wanna change them!
I have money burning a hole in my pocket (and leg) for the L50.
Thanks Jim – I wasn’t trying to catch you out, just making sure I read it right. You think the prices are still pretty great, I think they are pretty amazing.
Ray pull ya finger out and get that review up ;-)
Jim, pull ya finger out and get the team to get them on the website for pre-order.
I appreciate the update for the release date for the new Dash units. However I’m somewhat sceptical about them and feel rather disappointed with the amount of features.
Garmin new units seem to offer lots more features with their new units. For example the mapping is pure turn by turn and will get you back on track by working out a new route if you go off course. Also their new climb pro feature looks far more detailed than just a small picture of the elevation profile on the device. Also the new Garmin Connect app is smart allowing to download apps such as Xert on to your device from your phone. Another feature that Garmin and Wahoo have is Trainer control.
Wahoo new Elment Roam also still lacks features. Interestingly though the mapping will soon get actual turn by turn.
I hope Stages take note and can be match or better what Garmin can do?
Will the stock mount that comes with the new Dash units accommodate either 31.8 or 35.0 bars, or will we need to purchase a separate mount for our handlebar diameter of choice? Really looking forward to updating my current Dash!
The stock mount in the box is an aluminum 31.8mm out front mount. We do offer a 35mm with adapter to 31.8mm mountain bike mount (holds the dash over the bars away from harm). We also have an “Anywhere mount” which is plastic and, in the spirit of the o-ring style mount we all became accustomed to, we added one for the Dash to accomodate any crazy bar the bike companies can dream up!
They’re waiting on final word for exact availability dates (for all they know, units could already be en route to them). It sounded like they’d have that clarity in the order of hours, not days.
Just pre ordered a L10 from sigma sports. UK price is £139 and got £10 off as a new customer. Sold my old Edge 520 for £140 so winner winner chicken dinner! lol They reckon a week or 2 for additional mounts to arrive. Need a gopro style one to mount my front light. Can’t wait to get my hands on it, it’s been a long wait so really hoping ifs been worth it. I know the L10 is the poor relation to the other 2 but at the price it really should beat everything else on the market when it comes to training functionality.
Hey folks – just in case you didn’t see it, I just posted my first ride impressions on the new Stages units. The full post is over here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Hi Jim,
I have been reading through allt he Q&A and want to tell you I am impressed with all of your answers and how much you are promoting the product. I have a couple of questions as you might imagine:
1) Is there a firm timeline on the Garmin varia incorporation?
2) When using a free version of stages link is there a way to create a workout that involves more than a set of the same type of intervals? All I can see is the ability to create a singular interval set with as many reps as needed – but what about different intervals in the same session? Did I miss something (I admit to just talking a quick look at the link site)?
Thanks in advance,
Nick
Still haven’t been able to register my L10 as my serial number isn’t recognised or connect it to my phone. Apparently they haven’t had time to activate all the serial numbers. It’s going back to Sigma Sports tomorrow if it’s not sorted. Guessing us that can’t afford the flagship models arent a priority for Stages.
If you drop a line to CS with your email that you use for Link, I will validate your premium immediately.
I also think we can walk through the pairing issues to see if we can sort that out. Let us know, we can get you up on premium tonight. I am so sorry that the first take was not a good one.
Thanks Jim, just done that. I’d used my other email address before to contact them (The ticket number was 136718). I even mentioned you in my last message to them but not heard anything since then. Been waiting on and excited about this nearly a year mate so to have it arrive at last and have problems was a bit disheartening.
Hi,
I orderd the L50 at my local bike shop (in Belgium), I hope it won’t be any later then around the 12th of july as they say on the stages shop page. Bin waiting a long time on this device :-)
I got a few questions/suggestions about the new Dash.
* Is there a Ghost mode? I think alot off ppl have a certain trail that they do alot, and a ghost mode feature would be nice. Just a datafield that says perhaps in colours red&green when you are behind/infront of your precious best and by howmuch?
* Does the stages have a little icon on like the km/h, hartrate, ect data fields to see if you are above/below your ride average. Ive bin using wahoo elemnt last couple of years, and I like it in the way that you can see with out having another datafield if you are above or below the average. just a little arrow that points up or down.
* 80% of my workouts are programmed rides. I also ride alot with headphones. I tested the Garmin 830, gave it back after 4 rides, but thats another story. But it had a feater called crashalert, (wich bugged like hell, I was standing still at a crossroad and suddenly it went off…), what was interesting is that it gave the alert also in your headphones trough the connection with the cellphone. This made me thinking. Is it possible when you are doing sprintinterval, blocktraining,… that you can here sound alerts when you are in the last 5 seconds of your block trought your earphones. A example, you are doing blocks and you are in your last 10sec of your recovery, it will give a beep at 10 and then beep beep beep from 5 down to zero. More brands can do it, but not trough the headphones, wich should be possible if your app is active on your phone while riding.
* Again for workout mode. Wich I think the stages is heads up the best device on the market for personalising the screen.
Is it possible when you are doing intervals and for some reason you blew/failed a certain interval/block, can you from the device go back and restart that specific block. (again this comes from the wahoo, but its very usefull, and sometimes can save your whole workout)
* and last one :-)
When you are in the map section and you loaded a route. is there a way to see info on the route? Like howmuch further to go? sometimes its handy like when there are rerouting due to works on the road and you have to take a detour or shortcut. You get back on the trail, and then you can, I don’t know, press a button that gives info on your current possition and says like 65.8 km to go. Something like that.
Thx in advance
and really hope its not gonna be as buggy as the 830 was :-(
I may be late here, but I wanted to ask Ray why the in-depth review of the Stages computers has yet to be completed? Is there something inherently wrong with the system?
I really want to purchase one, but there’s not much out there in terms of usability which is worrisome. In fact, there’s limited information on Stages actual website. I’d like to see this thing working, somehow. :) With no Rainmaker review at this point, the ‘prognosis’ for their computers seems grim. :(
Thanks so much for the reply. I think it’s really interesting how it seems they totally failed on this launch. They seem like quite a large company. For them to think people would switch over to the Stages Link for all training needs was a mistake, especially for a premium fee.
Not fully supporting the other platforms out of the box was a serious miscalculation. I think manually adding all of my workouts from TP would become a pain in the long run.
Just been playing with my dash L50 to replace my garmin that keeps turning off randomly, and the garmin 530 i bought to replace that which continually just froze – very handy in races.
The L50 seemed to be the business, the screen set up and field options are amazing. But….
> Getting it in the mount is a feat of enormous strength. Far beyond what my wife can do, i can barely manage it and im not that weak…
> It doesnt display power from my mtb cinch power meter, although it records it. It displays power from quarqs fine.
> It can’t work out average speed properly. For mtb rides i set to continuous recording, so there is no auto pause. Last ride (i sent screenshots and files to stages), i had ridden 17.3km in one hour (garmin running in tandem measured same distance). Garmin said i had an avg speed of 17.3kmh, stages said i had an avg speed of 15.9kmh, whilst simultaneously also telling me on same screen i had ridden 17.3kmh in a time of one hour. What the. Stages have no answer. Have tried on multiple rides, i rely on avg speed to pace laps on race bike with doesn’t have power meter yet – combined with it being practically impossible to get into mount without using a hammer and stages support unable to answer the avg speed situation – sadly returning.
Just for fun, in the interim i had also bought a leomo type S. App crashed first ride, and unbelievably it doesn’t have auto pause – so for road rides your avg power, NP, avg speed etc all just drop whilst sitting at traffic lights. So thats going back. Also, it can’t measure distance, it measures way low vs both existing garmin, wifes garmin, and my back up lezyne mini.
im jinxed. Current garmin randomly turns off. Edge 530 replacement kept freezing needing hard reset so sent back. Stages L50 just had to be sent back. Leomo type S just had to be sent back. I just need a bike computer that works and does the basics!
I’m excited to receive my Stages Bike hopefully late next week, and recently purchased a L50 to accompany. Looking forward to seeing the integration of the two products.
Quick question: Is di2 supported yet? And, is there any way to set Varia Radar to beep when a vehicle first pops up? Can’t seem to find it in the settings.
I’m a cycling coach and want to recommend the Dish L/M50 for the power training of my athletes. However, after the test (I really bought a new L50), I discover the Dish don’t record the channel of Effectiveness and Smoothness. It make me so disappointed, even the low level computer of other brand can record such channel , it is nonsense to buy a Dash if you use more money to buy a L/R Power Meter (i.e. Stages L/R, Infocrank, 2inpower…etc) for better performance (for example: pedalling analiysis). Dash can show such data in ride but don’t record, it is really ridiculous. If no new firmware to rectify such mistake, Dash will lost many serious elite athlete users.
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The most common question I receive outside of the “what’s the best GPS watch for me” variant, are photography-esq based. So in efforts to combat the amount of emails I need to sort through on a daily basis, I’ve complied this “My Photography Gear” post for your curious minds (including drones & action cams!)! It’s a nice break from the day-to-day sports-tech talk, and I hope you get something out of it!
Many readers stumble into my website in search of information on the latest and greatest sports tech products. But at the end of the day, you might just be wondering “What does Ray use when not testing new products?”. So here is the most up to date list of products I like and fit the bill for me and my training needs best! DC Rainmaker 2023 swim, bike, run, and general gear list. But wait, are you a female and feel like these things might not apply to you? If that’s the case (but certainly not saying my choices aren’t good for women), and you just want to see a different gear junkies “picks”, check out The Girl’s Gear Guide too.
Are they doing that stupid fake feature/price differentiation thing that other companies do, where only the more expensive ones can connect to power meters? Any word on di2 ant+ pairing, remotes for page switching, radar, etc?
Nah, all the same.
I believe Di2/etc is planned for launch, but I think the remainder were later (if at all). I’ll have to have them confirm.
Hey Nate,
Ray is right. We figure we are not the only ones who love having all of their data. The things that differentiate our products are purely hardware driven: The L10 has a black and white display, and if we could put maps on it we would, but we cant make a bike computer for $149 that can also handle all the fancy OSM cycling specific mapping our L50 and M50 units can.
The M50 and L50 are essentially the same in feature sets. Updates will always apply to both units and include the same new features. The L50 will have a bit longer battery life, more data fields possible on one page, and be easier to read just by virtue of being bigger. For some of us at Stages, bigger text and data fields are a welcome sight for our aging eyes.
As for sensors at launch, we will support BLE/ANT power, heart rate, cadence, speed, and speed/cadence sensors. Some trainers (Unique BLE profiles there are a bit trickier and will come throughout the summer in time for winter). The first things after launch are radar and electronic groupsets which should be in before the main riding season here in the northern hemisphere. Remotes and lights to follow.
Hope thats helpful!
Re bigger text – it would be good to see customisable font size, even though it can be a headache for UI designers. Like many middle-age cyclists, I’m at that stage where my near distance vision isn’t what it used to be, but everything’s still fine on a bike ride until some critical warning message pops up in 8pt on my Edge. Was that my back light about to die? Di2 battery warning? Vector 3s losing connection again? No idea.
Neil,
I see what you mean, and you are certainly right on about how that can be difficult for UI designers. Customizing font size was not in the plan, but its a good idea. I cant say we could do this by launch, but I have logged a feature request for it so we can asses the impact of changing font size throughout our UI, and exposing that setting to the rider.
To you, as a person who has difficulty seeing notification overlays on his Garmin, you can be sure the overlay font on the L50 notifications will be bigger and easier to read. First of all, Both the M50 (2.2″ display) and L50 (2.7″ display) have higher resolution displays (240x300px) than the Garmin 520 (2.3″ and 200x265px). That makes a massive difference in font readability. That said, for the L50 specifically, all aspects of fonts, data fields, and widgets will be ~20% bigger than the M50, and very crisp.
I hope that helps. We really think the L50 is a fantastic bike computer. Its display is big, the battery life is good, and with its high resolution riders who have difficulty seeing small fonts and widgets on existing computers can actually use our cycling specific maps or color guided workouts without squinting and being unsafe out on the road.
Neil,
My solution to that problem is a pair of safety glasses with built-in readers. They come in clear, yellow and “smoke” which is essentially sunglasses. They’re about $10 a pair and you can get them anywhere from 1.5 up to about 3 or so. For me, 1.5’s work great and I can see my device perfectly with them.
How easy is it to zoom and pan the maps on these devices? Garmin 520(+) can’t pan and zooming takes multiple button presses through the menus, which makes them non-starters for me. The 820 would be OK if the touch screen wasn’t so bad.
No menu button presses required, you can do it all from the map screen. I show it in the video a bit actually, albeit only super quick because the camera shot at that moment didn’t turn out well.
Interesting units!
From software developers view I think they should invest software quality of upcoming updates (unit tests etc). This is a weak point of most Garmin products. I could image that people are willing to switch to Stages more likely when they get software updates that really work. Not like it is very often: Creating new features/updates messes up existing functionality completly.
Manuel,
Product lead from Stages here (maybe I’ll stop saying that in later comments). Great to hear this technical request! We are using unit tests and intend on releasing full updates without dependencies to avoid making any mistakes like you described. Your settings and files will always be safe, as we wont touch that partition during the update.
We are also a company full of cyclists eager to test our products, which I find to be a major asset for Stages in general. Keep the technical questions coming, I think in a forum such as this you wont be the only one interested in the topics.
Support for high-speed power recording? Radar support?
Neither at start. Though, it seems like radar might be on the table. We chatted about it a bit during the ride, especially since the route we were on was perfect for it (occasional cars, but when they came by they were usually high speed).
Yes please. I realise that radar users only make up a very, very small minority, but I know I certainly wouldn’t go back to riding without one, and I suspect most others would feel the same. Support for radar would be an essential feature for any future bike computer purchase for me.
Neil,
We are liking all of the radar requests we are seeing, it will certainly cause a prioritization of this feature for us to “immediate” instead of “nice to have”. Look for it to be added right away after launch.
If it’s there around launch consider me sold!
Kyle,
Allow me to consider you sold a little after launch, then :)
This forum has rocketed radar compatibility up to the top of the list for us. We are obviously in the final crunch time before launch right now polishing up things that Ray already keenly noted, but once we set our sights on it, it should not take us long to get it done. Keep an eye out for a late spring release with radar support.
PS: Anything you wish was better about your current radar experience? Asking for a friend…
On the 520 it can be hard to hear the alert beep when a car is detected by radar. Hoping the L50 has louder audible alerts.
Bsquared,
It’s purely anecdotal at this point, as I don’t have a decibel meter laying around the office, but the L50 speaker is pretty loud! I think plenty loud for letting you know there’s something to check out on the L50 display.
Like I mentioned earlier, we hear this group when it comes to radar integration, so look for it soon after launch.
Thanks Jim, my usual training route starts with a 1 hour outbound into a strong 10-20mph headwind. I can go for 10-15 minutes without a car, and with the Edge 520 it can be a little difficult to hear because of the wind. The L50 looks like my next upgrade!
Whew! You must be pretty fit!
I wish! But I’ve won the mental battle ;-)
What’s the source of their maps? The Garmin maps are notoriously bad for mtb trails, but at least allow you to sideload your own from someplace like openstreetmaps. Wahoo has better basemaps but do NOT allow any sideloading. Where does Stage fit?
And how secure would you consider their mount to be? Suitable for ‘robust’ trail riding?
It’s OSM, same as Garmin and Wahoo actually. But each company can choose from a crapton of options on which trails/etc to include or not include. Perhaps Stages is able to chime in on what they’ve done.
Their mount is crazy solid. Seriously, no in-box mount system is as good as theirs (all metal). There’s a mountain biker I follow (he may be one of their athletes, not entirely sure), that has his unit out-front all the time. Unreal stuff: link to youtube.com
Hey Cycloscott,
Product lead from Stages here. Our maps are OSM based. Since we have full color, high resolution displays on both units, we styled our maps to show you things a cyclist wants to see: roads with bike lanes, paved bike paths, dirt bike paths, etc. are all brightly colored making it easy to explore great bike routes on the fly. We also de-emphasized major highways which are typically poor for bike riders. We even display icons for things bikers want to see, like public restrooms and pubs :)
All dash cycling map regions are free. You can manage your map regions, settings, courses, and workouts using Stages Link. Since both M50 and L50 have ~13GB free for maps, you should have no problem loading all the places you like on your Dash (for example, Australia is about 2GB, so thats a lot of map region space!).
Clear maps are always a good thing, and one extra I always wish my Edge had was the ability to customise the colour scheme, as an artistic palette doesn’t necessarily make for a good UX. For example, Garmin’s use of a range of similar blues and purples on my Edge 1030 often leaves me approaching a junction thinking “which one’s the ‘this is your route’ shade of blue and which one’s the ‘this is a main road’ one? Or is it actually a river?”. I’d love to be able to just change the scheme to primary and secondary colours that are easy to differentiate, even if the end result did look like I’d just got a bumper Crayola set for Christmas.
You can use custom colour schemes on maps for Garmin devices if you are willing to compile your own maps. I have done it but there was a learning curve and quite a bit of tweaking until I worked out the settings I wanted.
First of all you download the relevant OSM data in the native OSM format. Then you can strip out any elements you don’t want. Then you can compile the edited OSM data into the Garmin map format while applying your custom style. Then you can add the maps to your Garmin device.
All the tools needed are free and use the command line. I have saved out the command lines required to text files making it easy to repeat the process if I want to update the map.
A simple option built into the Garmin units would be nice.
Neil,
Completely agree! We have spent a lot of time here going though a ton of different color schemes to try and make maps with the easiest to understand colors at a glance, even for our color deficient employees.
We have not exposed color scheme customization to the user for launch, but are willing to consider it down the road. I have logged a feature request for this and we will look at it as we prioritize updates throughout the year.
Here is what we have done to make using a Dash map the best cycling experience on the market today:
– Roads with bike lanes are BRIGHT magenta
– Paved bike paths are BRIGHT green
– Dirt paths that are ok for cycling are brown
– Your course is BRIGHT blue (see a theme?)
– Your breadcrumb trail is black
Other roadways on the map, which are still important but less so maybe to a cyclist looking to explore, are indicated by different widths of road, depending on their road type, which are white with a dark border on a grey background similar to most maps.
We also included icons on the map for interesting things like public restrooms and pubs to name a few.
Lastly, we have a Day and Night mode for the map, so maybe if one works better than the other for you, you can leave that setting on the map regardless of what your device color scheme is.
Before we expose the color schemes to the user, we want to make sure all of the content on the maps is locked in, so for now its a little easier for us to do our best to make cycling features clear, and courses separate.
Hi Jim,
I have quick question regarding the new Dash units. Will you be able to plan route on the app then send it to the Dash via the app. Also can you create your own structured workouts using the app or will a subscription to Stages Link be required?
King regards,
Clive
Intriguing, but as an owner of the current model Dash (bought as part of their blowout sale a couple months ago), their computer products are entirely unintuitive. I guess if you’re bought into their training ecosystem maybe they work better and maybe I’m spoiled by Garmin, but it feels like I’m using a product designed in the 80s.
I bought it as a second computer so I could leave one at the office and one at home. But I haven’t successfully /used/ the thing yet. Maybe it’s a matter of spending a couple hours with the documentation, but that’s never been necessary with any other GPS I’ve bought.
Maybe this update includes an OS for the last generation that modernizes its interface? That would be welcome.
And BTW, if anything I’m a stages fanboy, with four of their powermeters on various bikes. I really wanted that last computer to be a great product.
I totally agree with you on the previous Stages, it was just kinda weird to navigate. More or less, the Stages L10 remains the same.
The Stages M50/L50 are definitely much clearer for sure, far better. That said, since the UI pieces are the bits that are furthest from refinement, I suspect things will change a fair bit between now and shipping (likely for the better though).
Fred,
I am very sorry to hear that. I understand why you feel that way. I’d love to get you up and going on your Dash, and I know our customer service team is good at helping break down that barrier.
We made a huge effort on L10, M50, and L50 to make setup more intuitive and integrated with a very much so overhauled Stages Link app. You are also correct in that the 50 series are based on a much more powerful chipset and linux based OS.
Send us a note over on shttp://support.stagesdash.com/en/support/home and we will try to help you get going.
Thanks for being a Stages superfan! I hope to keep it that way.
Unrelated question: what watch are you wearing in this video and did you have it paired / using for the purpose of comparing data?
I was wearing the Polar Vantage M on one wrist, and the COROS APEX on the other wrist. Off-hand I believe the COROS was paired to my Vector 3 pedals, and I’ve gotta look at see what the Vantage was paired to. Both were using internal optical HR, while the Stages M50 was paired to my chest strap.
For this test I wasn’t super focused on the power side of things (which looks slightly odd to me), since I didn’t really have the time to ensure all bits of the test were setup/controlled properly. Primarily for this test I was interested in GPS. HR was interesting to me, but since I was shooting/filming a bunch, that can occasionally impact optical HR, so I wouldn’t place major emphasis on that in this particular set.
Those look good and the feature set is close to perfection.
Can we hope for integration into multiple training platforms ? I do not want ot have to setup my zones in multiple places as they evolve (hopefully in the right direction). So ability to correctly interpret training instructions from Training Peaks would be a major selling point for me and probably the only thing preventing me from pullnig the trigger on those.
Also, is there a way to pilot an indoor trainer ERG mode once the structured workout has been loaded into the unit ?
Thanks for all your work.
Cheers
Chapo,
We hear you loud and clear, especially when it comes to zones and workouts. I agree, there are so many ways to manage zones in so many places, and we hope to see some standardization in the industry going forward as well. I am not sure I fully understand everything you are asking, so let me tell you what we do have planned for launch and let me know if i missed anything on your wishlist:
* All .fit format workouts can be added to the Dash. Since TrainingPeaks stores absolute (specific wattage) values in their .fit workout files, you can be sure that all of your workout step targets are correct on the dash
* Zones at launch can be set using FTP and FThr on the Dash, managing up to 20 of them on StagesLink (they automatically sync to the Dash), or allowing the Dash to figure them out for you.
* Workout targets from any .fit workout file appear in the data field they define (so power targets appear in power fields).
* We have a full color, zone based, workout progress graph widget that will make seeing your whole workout and where you are in it very simple.
* All of your ride files can be pushed out to multiple training platforms using the BLE connection on the Stages Link app or USB using either the StagesSync desktop app or by simple usb mass storage device.
* We plan to integrate workouts into trainer control, which we will release during the summer so you have it in time for your winter (unless its summer for you right now, which we would be jealous of)
Syncing your exact zones from TrainingPeaks to the Dash will not be possible at launch, but there are more ways to manage your zones on the Dash than other computers, so hopefully while we wait for some standards to appear between the platforms, the Dash can serve your needs.
Re-reading my comment it was indeed not quite clear. Thank you for the details it’s helpful. I’m still not quite sure if it is exactly how I would use it though.
My main use case is :
– my coach puts workouts for me in TrainingPeaks
– I load it automagically on my garmin
– I ride in zwift.
It’s seamless and I never have to plug anything to anything. Would it work in the same fashion ?
As far as trainer control goes, your devices already have the ability to pilot a controllable trainer (i.e the workout calls for 300w, no matter which speed/cadence i’m in, the trainer varies the intensity of the resistance to match 300w) ?
I am fortunate to live in a place where it’s always summer ! But I ride on my trainer year-long as well.
Chapo,
Right away TrainingPeaks workouts from your calendar will not automatically push to the Dash via BLE like you are used to. You would have to export them and add them to the Dash manually. We are working on getting this to happen automatically from Trainingpeaks to the Dash, as we already do send completed rides from the Dash to Trainingpeaks.
Trainer control is right behind Radar integration for us. We are planning this based on a timeline for fall/winter users wanting to move inside later in the year.
For you, I think you should wait, I don’t want to disrupt your current system as it appears to work really well for the kind of rider you are. We will certainly have these kinds of integrations soon, but I’d rather you get on the Dash train once it’s uniquely ready for you.
I will note that if you used Stages Link, all of this is possible at launch, as well as course building, map region sync, and Dash settings management on the App and Web. We provide a free premium trial with all new Stages products (customized training plans and advanced analysis tools like compliance score and pro-tour level analytics) so maybe its something you want to try out right at launch. Ill let you decide.
Hi,
What are the batterysizes of these units? Because screentime doesn’t say everythin.
How will planning routes look like?
Thanks,
Sander
Screentime = batterylife
Sander,
M50: 1800mAh
L50: 2300mAh
We went big on battery to make sure we could power the brightest and highest resolution displays of any bike computer out there. So, indeed, as we continue to add features and optimize performance, look for our battery life to creep up past our quoted launch numbers.
Thanks Jim for you answer. That’s much bigger then the battery of a edge 520+. Who claims to have 15 hours batterylife.
Some other questions:
1.Are gpx files created by Osmand+ supported? These files contains turnbyturn info (contains almost the same info like a route fit file) and Osmand doesn’t need a internet connection to generate them.
2.Do you need a internet connection for sending a new route gpx/fit/tcx to the stage device?
Sander,
I will check to make sure specifically OsmAnd+ GPX files are supported. I worry they create files similar to “route” files with only points on the route at navigation instructions, if this is the case, you would need to import them to StagesLink first, and then they will sync to the Dash once saved.
If they are exporting gpx files with trackpoints, we will certainly support them at launch. To make sure we support everyone, we have a new_files directory on our device that you can add a gpx course file to and use it on your Dash.
As for sending a file to the Dash without internet, via BLE the answer is likely yes, via USB no (as long as you already had a file on your computer).
It sounds like what you would like to see is a connection between our Link App and OsmAnd where, if you share a file from OsmAnd, you can see StagesLink as an option, right? In that case, although not supported at launch, we could send that file to the Dash via BLE connection without internet, as long as the file was on your phone already. Ive added a feature request for this, and we will assess how much work it will be and prioritize accordingly.
Supporting Osmand+ gpx files with TBT info would be very nice, because it gives extra opportunities to change the route on road without the need of a internet connection.
Sander,
Its on the list! It wont be in at launch, but we agree. Thanks for the OsmAnd+ vote, its not the only one we’ve gotten.
Thanks Jim
It will gives a hudge advantage compared to competitors, who are trying to invent the wheel again (a Dutch saying). They don’t come close to what OSMAND+ haves to offer. I think it’s a shame nobody take this opportunit.
Thanks again.
Hi Jim, for long epic adventures the battery may run out, is it possible to charge while recording? Currently I carry a small usb battery pack in my jersey, and use it to charge Edge 520, Varia 500, Bontrager Flare RT, and phone. I’m able to charge the 520 and radar while in use.
Bsquared,
Yes, the M50 and L50 do have this capability, while the L10 already has 24h+ battery life and cannot be charged at the same time as recording a ride. Maybe someday bikes will have a central battery that can keep all of our gizmos running happily through the night. If only we could all agree on a standard….
The units look really good, I like the midsize most.
I really couldn’t care less about Strava segment integration.
What I do find a pitty is no actual routing on the device (without smartphone), I really use this a lot and hate pulling out my phone during a ride.
Still some question:
– Will it do live tracking?
– Battery life is 15-18 hours, is this with mapping on and in the cold (the Edge 820 I have should have 15 hours as well but with mapping on and in the cold, it gets about 3 hours which is the reason I’m looking for something else)
Same here, Edge 520 battery life has become poor for me, more so since i started using the Varia Radar. Start to worry not on 4 hour + rides if the battery will last. Turn bluetooth, glonass off, etc and still it uses a lot of battery. Will be interesting to see battery life with all sensors and mapping on these new Stages units.
TLa,
We hear you. Our design decision to allow the phone to participate in routing is very much related to the issues you are experiencing with your Garmin battery life. A big part of why we all dont just have iPhones out on our handlebars is:
1. To big (for me at least)
2. Battery life with the screen on and navigation running would be terrible!!!
3. Touchscreens and sweat dont mix
So, we went ahead and made the clearest and most cycling specific maps that exist on bike computers today! Our hope is if you load a course on the dash (simple to do with Stages Link!) and end up off course, you can use our super detailed map to find the safest way back without all the crazy reroutes the Garmin sends you. Also, without having to pull out your phone. You can use the pan and zoom features (as Ray noted, they are simple to use while viewing the map) to see where the course is if you are really lost, and simply look at our map for the best bike routes back to your plan. No phone needed!
We hoped to thread the needle here between battery life and ease of use for a cyclist using mapping and courses. I hope our simple zoom and advanced maps can help you overcome the lack of routing on the device, and even reduce the need to stop and reach for your phone.
Thanks a lot for the reply Jim.
It’s going on the short-list :-)
Also because I have very good experiences with the Stages helpdesk after a little problem with the powermeter (very fast and direct answers, straight to the point)
;)
Craig,
We have a ton of respect for the Garmin units. We all ride bikes, so its not hard to imagine we all have used them plenty. Garmin knows what they are doing, so its always super risky to think you can do a better job than they can at the start of a project.
That’s why we went ahead and put massive batteries in the M50 and L50. No reason to think we would somehow figure out how to connect to 4 sensors at a time, and a phone, and have the best maps and workouts in the world, AND have better battery life than the Garmin! So, get went and got a bigger hammer to solve that problem, and we are now sitting comfortably with our battery life even with a lot of applications that have not been optimized for efficiency yet. When you compare the M50 weight to the 520, you will see the difference in battery size, but remember, when you consider the factory mount that comes with a Dash vs the one that comes with a Garmin, it makes up for the weight difference! We send you an aluminum arm in the box that connects to the side of the computer, something you currently have to buy as an aftermarket part for your less streamlined bottom-mounting quarter turn computers ;)
Last note: the L10 gets 24 hours of battery life! I know, its not color and does not have maps… but still, that’s a heck of a long time.
Really excited by the larger screens to replace my wahoo elemnt. Bit of shame about having no strava live segments, is this a definite no or might this be revisited??
Ross,
It’s never going to be a no. We decided to focus on making every feature we were in control of super simple and powerful from a cyclist perspective. I am really sorry we wont launch with this feature, but for certain a result of not spending time on SLS has given us the ability to make the features you are used to much better, like an altitude profile for your courses that has colored gradients, or maps that can actually be used without a course, or workout targets that appear in existing data fields, etc.
I know, I’m deflecting, but we really wanted to make the best bike computer we can, and for a lot of us that meant simple to use maps, workouts you could actually follow, data fields you could read, education on training zones right in the ride screens, customization on the Dash, Web, and App, and a new, fully featured, Stages Link app that makes tracking your performance really easy. You will always be able to sync all your rides over to Strava through our Link app automatically via BLE connection, and see if you smashed your buddies after the ride.
Look for SLS down the road, but right now, were focused on making all the other features great for cyclists.
Jim,
Thanks for the update, really appreciate your honesty and where you are heading. I must say I am excited about the stage m50 and l50. Do I take the plunge??
I wouldn’t call it a plunge as much as I would call it a “conscientious uncoupling” or whatever the cool kids are saying. We all think the current devices are great, but it might be best for all of us to move on to new, more vibrant things :)
We’ve got a big team with an open mind for the spring and summer, so were ready to listen to you folks for what’s the most important thing to work on. From what I can see so far, maybe we should start working on our own radar!
How about race against GPX file that may or may not be a strava effort?
I’d appreciate to hear from Jim on what they’ve done for location accuracy. Do all three units have the same satellite chipset? What systems do they use? (GPS, Glonoss, QZSS, Galileo, etc.) Do they do any kind of post-processing beyond simple sanity filtering… e.g. snapping to roads?
The location accuracy isn’t such a big deal during a ride, but it can be very important for accurate Strava segment matching……
Jeffery,
Great comment/questions! The DC crowd does not mess around!
The new 50 series devices use a very reputable MediaTek chip with GPS (worldwide) and QZSS (Japan/Australia) as the main satellite systems for location, as well as the WAAS/EGNOS/MSAS/GAGAN satellite augmentation systems. No Glonass/Galileo you say?! Well, with GPS and QZSS and augmentation, we can get very accurate location and save battery life at the same time.
We’ve been to Australia, China, Taiwan, Germany, UK, and the US for GPS accuracy testing with the units and so far very pleased with the results.
This chipset was specifically designed for the fitness applications (aka, relatively low speed and low power consumption) and is showing very excellent first time to fix performance and accuracy.
We do not snap to roads, as that is a world of difficulty that we will leave up to the web platforms with infinite computing resources in the cloud. What we did focus on is getting every single data point we record in the file as accurate, from a hardware perspective, as possible. Therefore, no matter where you take your file, you can be sure the original data has not been messed with by any filter or otherwise well-meaning but poorly conceived algorithm. You can be sure your Strava segment matches will be accurate.
Question for Jim at Stages,
Hi Jim, is there anything planned for Xert support?
Bob,
Simple answer for launch: Unfortunately not.
We know the industry is more and more built on the platform in which our customers prefer to plan/analyze their rides, so we hear you on this.
One of the things that caused some delay in our launch between Eurobike and now was adding accommodations in our software infrastructure such that we can handle more integrations down the road as companies become more interested in them. We had to make sure that we could easily provide a way for Xert or others to work with us and we will make it a priority to integrate with new platforms after launch. (FIT workouts are fully supported by dash, as are GPX course files, so we got you covered at launch)
Out of the box the Dash will be fully integrated with Stages Link, where you can customize your dash settings, courses, workouts, and map regions. We also have made massive improvements to our Stages Link App for iOS and Android which will provide all of our users a simple way to manage their Dash and rides from their phone. Stages Link also provides custom training plan options for riders based on a huge amount of variables, like your availability, skill level, and specific goals.
At launch, we already support, via Stages Link account connections (which is a model for other companies going forward):
– Strava
– UnderArmour
– TrainingPeaks
– Ride with GPS
We are 100% committed to each individual rider’s existing web platform, and never want to prevent you from accessing your data, so dont worry, you can keep using Xert. I just thought it was a nice opportunity to show how we are also trying to provide a great place to make riding more fun.
Support for TrainerRoad at launch?
Scott,
Looking around the TrainerRoad forums it appears you cannot export a .fit file for a workout. This means, like the Garmin, you would need to rebuild the workout in Link or another platform that supports .fit files.
I logged this as a feature request (support trainer road workout files on the dash) and will look into getting it in an early update. This would at least allow you to export the trainerroad workout and add it to the new_files folder on the dash.
Thanks Jim,
What about the other way round too, importing outside rides into TrainerRoad via auto syncing?
Scott
Hi Jim,
Thanks for taking the time to answer.
All the best.
For all the Garmin faults and problems, there is one thing going for Garmin – Connect IQ ecosystem. AFAIK neither dash nor wahoo computers have anything similar. Ok, most probably there is a lot of useless junk in CIQ store that half of the time creates more problems than work, but XERT has used the CIQ platform brilliantly by building its workout player app and XERT datafields – really the core of XERT goodness). My guess is that for equivalent functionality to appear on Dash, there would have to be concerted coding effort both by Stages and XERT. In that sense Garmin is much more open to third parties.
PS Being able to load an XERT generated workout file onto Dash is not IT, it’s the XERT datafields that matter.
Scott,
That is a much easier lift for us, I have logged a task to reach out to TrainerRoad so we can add them to the list of platforms we automatically push ride data to. I cant give a timeline just yet, but those ones are much easier for us, as we already do this with Strava/TrainingPeaks/UnderArmour etc.
Thanks for the reminder!
Bob,
This is some of the best product feedback we can get, it’s totally worth the time! Keep the questions coming. We want to make the best computers in the world.
dizpark,
Garmin’s approach to 3rd party integrations is certainly great and seems to be starting to work really well for them.
We’re still pre-launch, so its tough to already have a bunch of 3rd party connections going on, as most companies will want to hear from people like you before they make an effort, like you said, to spend resources integrating with a new product.
We took a different approach, where we will not be a platform for other companies to develop complete applications on the Dash computers, instead, we built the dash in a way that a connected device can use the same components of the dash as our primary Dash software uses. In other words, we acknowledge that the smartphone is still the most powerful computer on the bike rider, and when it comes to app development, things go very quick in the iOS/Android world. Instead of supporting our own application platform, we have decided to make a robust BLE API that will allow applications to push data to custom BLE data fields like XERT does in CIQ (this is certainly a post launch feature!), subscribe to data we already record in the dash (an app can get power data, gps data, etc so it does not have to pair to your sensors or run GPS and waste battery), and put or get files like workouts, courses, and rides. Applications can also send overlay dialogues to get answers from riders and send notifications just to tell the rider something pertinent to that application.
All in all, for sure we are going to be trailing Connect IQ at launch, but I think the way we have approached CIQ type functionality will be lightweight for companies to use, and I would expect to see a few companies start to use this come trainer season here in the northern hemisphere. I would not expect to see much before then, however.
I just want you to know that we think CIQ is important, as a larger part of the “everyone likes different platforms” conversation. With Dash I hope you come for the best native features, stay for the big improvements using 3rd parties by trainer season :)
Scott,
TrainerRoad links to Strava. So what I do today with my Garmin to get outdoor rides into TrainerRoad is: Garmin Edge 820 -> Garmin Connect -> Strava -> TrainerRoad
So since it looks like you will be able to do: Stages Dash -> Stage Link -> Strava, you would just need to enable the TrainerRoad Strava link
Jim! I appreciate your long and detailed answer re BLE API. Best of luck with developing Dash line. I will be watching this space with interest.
dizpark,
We’ll get you eventually ;)
Hi Jim,
I am unsure whether Stages will support Xert. This is because the people who buy the Stages dash use Stages Link (Today’s Plan) to analyse their rides, workouts, plan their training and monitor their power meters. I like Xert but since using Today’s Plan I find it more useful on the whole. It’s like having a Personal Coach without hiring a Coach. I personally am a convert to the whole Stages Eco System. Also Stages customer service and support are second to none, they are always on point if you get into trouble. Keep up the good work Stages!
Clive,
+1 +1 +1!!
I agree, I have requested wake-up calls from our CS team just because they are so helpful, it would be a great way to start the day. Might be the only ticket they didn’t reply to in the history of Stages.
Its important to note, I think, that Stages Link is a VERY powerful training tool. We started working with Todays Plan a few years ago and have really grown together in making the new 50 series (dont forget, the L10 is already the best workout device out there, you can do a workout on the L10 and get compliance scores in Link immediately after the ride. Nobody does this, and its because we work with the guys at Todays Plan every day to make training better).
There is no other ecosystem that allows you to customize your devices, get customized training plans, build courses, sync ride data, build workouts, and best of all, try out all the tools the best coaches in the world are using to find ways to make their athletes better.
That said, nobody uses just one platform these days, and we are focused on making sure that we are an equal opportunity computer for all of our users. I use Stages Link. Bob uses Xert. Chapo uses TrainingPeaks. Ross uses Strava. All of us deserve a great bike computer that works with everything and is easy to use for everyone. I sat in Team UAE’s follow car before Tour Down Under last week and they were using VeloViewer.
The bottom line is, we think Stages Link is the best, but everyone is different. I hope everyone gives StagesLink a try, as it comes with a Premium trial with any Dash product purchase!
Dear Jim,
Thank you for your reply and replying to everyone too. Stages really do know how to connect with the public.
It’s great that you get 2 months free trail of Stages Link when you purchase a dash. This is how I got hooked. It is awesome to use!
It’s really impressive that another World Tour Team UAE are using Stages Products. I would like to know how Dan Martin is getting on with is Power Meter and Dash, especially as he has been a Garmin ambassador for years?
I have already told my bike shop to inform me as soon as they are in stocks.
Clive,
I tell you what, talking to you is a lot more fun that trying to figure out how in the heck we will make a text entry widget that does not suck with only 4 buttons! Have you ever used the Amazon Fire Stick? Oh man, I nearly threw that remote against the wall trying to enter a password. Thankfully we have great App integration. Phew.
I just got back from Tour Down Under where we did some testing with UAE and got a lot of good feedback from them. We dont want to put the dash on your bike until its perfect, Garmin set a high bar to clear, and the last thing we want to do is negatively impact your performance!
If it were ready for Dan Martin it would be on the shelves for you to go get now. Keep an eye out for dashes on UAE bikes right around the same time your local shop calls you up and lets you know your Dash is ready.
Hi Jim,
I have another question regarding the new Dash. Is smart trainer control being implemented on these new devices. I am little concerned about it. We were lead to believe this was going to happen on the original but it seems implantation was dropped on the original. This is will be one killer feature for us in the UK for winter training!
Clive,
I am really sorry that we couldn’t get Dash 1 up and running with trainer control, the processor and memory limitations of the device made developing that kind of feature, and others like mapping, beyond possible. This was not our intention at all, and I apologize. If this is something currently giving you grief, let the CS team know and we’ll try to work something out.
One of the benefits of the Dash 1 development is we now have a full bike computer built on some pretty lightweight hardware, and can release its better looking L10 update for $149.
When we started the 50 series project, we knew what we were up against from Garmin and Wahoo, so we significantly upped our hardware game. We have a super powerful CPU, 16GB of Flash, and a ton of RAM just to make sure that there would be no unexpected limitations down the road, even after we conquered all the things we already have ready for launch.
I’m glad you asked. I hope the features that do exist in Dash 1 are serving you well. We look forward to putting a colorful touch on trainer control before Fall.
Why did no one mention Rule #37 yet? link to velominati.com
I’m sure it has been mentioned before, also I seem to recall Ray using ‘cat ears’ or whatever they’re called on his helmet straps to reduce wind noise when riding, so the straps being held out by his glasses might be intentional. Although I’m going with ease of having his shades on before his helmet and him not really giving a damn! :)
Ray, grammar/wording on your funny aside – ‘some*one* has always gone horribly sideways.’ Haha :)
Haha…thanks!
Ray or Stages – is there any indication on if the Stages units will support the RTL-510 or Ant+ light protocols on the Bontrager lights? This is an important feature for me – data is all well and good but I want to make it home safely.
Wahoo is lagging behind on this implementation and may not implement it. I think it’s good business to support any safety protocols for customers.
Kyle,
We’re all riders here at Stages with loved ones at home that we all want to see again. I’ve personally begun to ride more bike paths and MTB trails because cars are such a risk for all of us. I think we all want to be that old fit person that the local news does a funny spot on like “local 99 year old still rides 5000 miles a year!!!”
Anyways, yes. Safety is huge for us. It’s unfortunate that we cannot quite get to a radar and light integration for launch, but trust me, it is 100% in our early plans for post launch features, because all of us here at Stages selfishly want it too. Like all of the features we do have, we want to make it right for cyclists.
Keep an eye out for a release announcement after our on-sale. Were on it.
Quick one: are there any plans to (or do you already) support Bestbikesplit race plans – the tcx or fit race file that gives goal wattages for sections of courses?
Alister,
Good one! We accommodated for this in the underlying course software so its a matter of making the connection happen and releasing an update after launch! Some of our employees use Bestbikesplit for TT planning and we have had our eye on this for a while now.
First we want to make the best courses, workouts, maps, altitude profile, data fields, app analysis, web support, customization, visibility. Then, “What power specifically should i be doing right now on this uphill?!”
Awesome – thank you Jim.
Looks like my decision has just been made for me – super happy with the Stages PM I use
(the numbers are terrible but it’s not the machine’s fault!).
Time to get the L10 to me!
Hey Alister,
I just want to be clear, the 50 series will support Best Bike Split style courses after our initial launch, but we will not be able to roll that in to the L10. To add more features to the L10 we would need to get a more expensive computer chip, and we really wanted to keep the L10 as the best value out there, so Bestbikesplit style courses can only be added to the more powerful units.
I apologize if there was some confusion, I would hate to mislead you resulting in a disappointing experience later. You can still improve those “terrible” numbers with the amazing workout functionality on the L10, and then ignore all advice during your TT and just use the “shut up legs!” philosophy.
the M50 looks nice… is it support charge on the go?
rkyu,
Yep! As long as your USB connection does not have a data pin, the Dash will not enter USB mode. That is true for all mobile charge packs (And some USB cables).
Please please please tell me this:
Do intervals auto-advance if longer than a minute now? the biggest failing of the current dash is that if i’m 2, 3, 4, x minutes in to a high intensity interval, i have to look down and press lap to get to the resting part
Max,
Great news! The 50 series will allow you to pick from 3 different auto lapping features:
– All laps automatically advance
– Active laps advance (this is defined in the fit file, and will fix the specific issue you are having)
– No laps automatically advance
A lot of companies are dealing with how to manage lap advance while still giving the user some flexibility. We primarily wanted to make sure that we had a setting where our “off” laps were a bit flexible, with stoplights and cars and all, while our on laps ended for us. Most companies are defining no time for off intervals, which is not good because very often there is a specific time dedicated to off intervals too! So, with this feature, I think we have handled auto lap advance in workouts better than anyone else.
Thanks!
Hi, will they have lap by position? It’s about the #1 feature request on Wahoo which they aren’t building, and is about the only thing preventing me moving to a device other than Garmin. Lap by position is incredibly useful for things like crit and circuit racing. Thanks!
Steve,
Unfortunately at launch we will not support this feature. I have added a feature request for it to remind me of it for post launch feature rollouts. We’re certainly not opposed to it, but wont be able to provide it right away.
Ok thanks will keep an eye on things
Will there be a support for Komoot?
Cypher,
Reading through these comments shows just how many different platforms people are using to make riding easier for them. That’s why we made a folder on the dash you can add courses and workouts to, via usb, so at the very least sites like Komoot are supported using their GPX export feature.
Our number 1 priority was working with everything out of the box. We have a ton of platforms that we want to make it easier to use, by allowing you to connect your Stages Link account to a site like Komoot so we can automatically sync all your courses to your dash via BLE connection. Each one of those will require some work on our side and theirs, so we will try our best to get through to all of these platforms and connect our dashes to your courses automatically. One thing you can do is voice this request to Komoot so when I call them up, they know its a good investment of their time!
In the meantime, for sure, at launch you can drag and drop a gpx course to the Dash and ride it on our bright colorful maps.
Jim,
Will there be support for cycling dynamics, and especially Pioneer power meter cycling dynamics?
Matthew,
We think the cycling dynamics are pretty cool, and do have LR Balance, Torque Effectiveness, and Pedal Smoothness supported on all Dash units, but when given a limited amount of time to make the most impact on our riders, we had to focus on making workouts exciting again, or maps easy to follow even without a course, and had to shelve some of the more advanced Pioneer style vector analysis metrics for a later date.
That’s a long winded way of saying, no, we don’t support the Pioneer cycling dynamics. We are trying to get the most amount of people out and riding, it looks like in that effort we didn’t hit your needs. Sorry about that.
Cheers Matthew,
It’s just nice not to be tied to two platforms to make one work smoothly.
Scott/Matthew,
I agree, it would be a lot better if we can just get the integration directly to Stages Link done for you. Its a high priority to get these integrations going ASAP.
Hey Jim from Stages!
Great to hear all the work and updates going into the new Dashes. Will there be support / options / firmware / upgrades the original Dash? I absolutely love the thing and don’t want to be left wayside. Maps isn’t a deal breaker for me as I was in it for the workout features. I had been a Today’s Plan user, but now to TrainingPeaks with the coach I work with – which is my only sort of headache with it right now. I’d probably go the Link route, but the cost, I feel, isn’t where I’d like it.
Anyways, thanks for all the work the Stages have put into these projects!
Hey Patrick,
When we launch, give our CS team a call and they will get you sorted out.
What is your current TrainingPeaks annual cost? Is that the only thing standing in the way between you and Link Premium?
(For those of you reading this, Link Community will always allow you to manage your dash, use some ride analytics, and manage 3rd party connections for free, Patrick is referring to a more advanced version of Link called Premium which has all kinds of extra features like customized training plans and world tour quality ride analysis tools).
Hey Jim,
Mostly, yes, the cost. I got all the Today’s Plan features for 15/mo, Link was 20 and Training Peaks is 10/mo if you buy the yearly subscription. Really for the coaching service I use, the training peaks push is all that is needed and I definitely prefer to create the workouts in Today’s Plan for all the customization, but obviously have lost that ability with peaks. Pros and cons for everything and there hasn’t been one best solution, yet it seems like with what is planned that it’ll be closer soon! I just hope everything is followed through with the updates to firmware and such.
I’ll definitely give CS a call after launch! Your company’s CS has always been top notch. Which is why I have the dash and two stages pm’s!
Patrick,
Super interesting perspective. From just this comment section alone we’ve got maybe 10 different platforms mentioned, every one with different pros and cons (and pricing). It will be interesting to see what you end up with down the road. One of the benefits of having a super-powered analytics platform behind the Dash is the detail guys like you can get into.
We’ll keep doing our best, you keep an eye on the updates and I hope to see you on Link soon!
Thanks Jim! Appreciate it!
Hi Jim from Stages,
A couple years ago (Oct 2016) I purchase gen2 left-only and had a free trial with Link Premium. Last year I was paying for TP, TR, Zwift, Xert, and Strava. I’ve since stopped paying for everything except TrainerRoad, which I use for training plans to self-coach. The TrainerRoad calendar and analytics are good for basic analysis and getting better. For geeking out on ride data I use Golden Cheetah.
Last month I took advantage of the sale on your site and upgraded to a gen3 LR power meter. Was not offered another trial of Link Premium. Looking forward to the launch of the L50, and support for Varia 500 radar. I plan to call CS and ask for another Link Premium trial at that time, but its hard to see a compelling reason to pay for another platform with my TrainerRoad / Golden Cheetah combo. Hope that helps.
Thanks!
Bsquared,
That makes sense to me, I feel kind of the same way with all my video streaming services i dont have time to watch.
Its a good chance for me to remind the DCR community that the new Stages Link App is very much so worth a deep dive, I dont know if that is Ray’s thing so much, but maybe we will put one together soon. Lots of good stuff on there for free, and of course, additional goodies for premium.
Man, this radar feedback is fierce! Im glad we did a first ride with Ray to hear about it!
I invested in the original dash (Well before the price dump … ouch) after Garmin started giving < 5 hours battery. Benefit of the larger screen for ageing eyes, plus liked the landscape format and the outstanding battery life.
But got increasingly disappointed that all the planned updates never materialised (Di2 info etc) and with the announcement of the new models seems original owners have been left out in the cold even more (and selling it on means giving it away given current prices).
Thankfully the mount is bulletproof so it now lives on the MTB, and trashing it in crash won’t totally ruin my day, while a wahoo replaces it on the road bike.
I just hope that all the promises are fulfilled this time around.
Tony,
We’re really sorry about your first experience with the Dash. I’ve let our CS team know to look out for a note from you to work something out to make it right. Send them a note and they will take care of you.
As I noted to Clive earlier, we made some poor hardware decisions with Dash 1 that ended up limiting the number of features that could actually fit on the device, which is the main reason we know that the 50 series will not run into that problem. Huge memory, powerful CPU, and 16GB of flash will allow us to add features to the 50 series to our hearts content.
Thanks for the honesty and the note, see you again over at link to support.stagescycling.com
Question for Jim
Existing stages dash user and anxiously awaiting delivery 2018 cervelo R5
Ab 06 handlebar
Which,if any,of your mounts incl the soon to be released ones,will be compatible with this handlebar
Thx
Zak,
That area next to the stem where a normal 31.8mm mount goes looks pretty tight! Have you held that bar and stem combo in your hands and noticed that the existing mount is too wide?
We’ll try to get a ruler on a set of those bars to check, otherwise we will have a new mount coming out with the new dashes that uses 2 rubber o-rings and hooks to go anywhere (called, creatively, the “anywhere mount”). If the out front mount does not work, send the CS team a note and we will get it sorted.
Are the old mounts going to still be compatible? I’ve got a handful of them for road, two cx bikes, mtn bike and fattie! :)
Patrick,
This is the one I can’t change or make better for you, we made some improvements to the mounts and the ring that surrounds the dash to make it look better and accommodate for more models down the road. This means I have to tell you the hard truth is we are not backwards compatible with our new mounts to the old dash. But, we are in a very accommodating mood over here at Stages because, that sucks! We really wanted to make sure the new mount was the best mount as we start anew with the Dash line.
The L10, M50, and L50 are all compatible with our new suite of mounts. Although writing this is making me want to 3d print you 10 adapters, which don’t exist and I would have to invent.
Really sorry. Drop us a line and we will see what we can do.
Jim,
Will the new Dash head units be able to identify a specific bike from a specific sensor? E.g., if paired to power meter A, then the bike is X (road); while if paired to power meter B, then the bike is Y (gravel)
If so, then would the bike get passed on when syncing to other platforms? E.g., Strava. I’m testing bike garage to track consumable components (e.g., chains, cassettes) life-span, and bike garage gets ride data from Strava. To make this work, I have to correct the bike in Strava so that gravel rides are associated to my gravel bike, road to my road bike, and indoor to my dedicated indoor trainer bike.
Matthew,
First, we do save power meter metadata in our ride files. We track zero offsets and battery life of our power meters in Stages Link so our users can track the health of their stages power meters. We do not, however, take care of the bike portion of your request.
We realized that a lot of users have only one bike, and the presence of bike profiles on a device became a nuisance for those riders, so on the Dash we made activity profiles super flexible, allowing you to name them after a particular bike if you like and add those sensors to the individual profile. Or you can make a few different profiles for different types of riding and add all of your sensors to every one of them. This means we dont have any specific bike field to save to our ride files.
If we learned anything from making power meters and head units for a while now, its that if a feature is not simple and automated, its tough to get a lot of traction with your users. I hope the PM metadata is enough. Good luck!
Hi, I’m so looking forward to the release of the L50. I was a huge fan of the first dash, alldoh the absence of the gps navigation made me go back to wahoo. Also alot of problems with sattelite connection and problems with sync between link and the device. I’m certain all those problems are out of the way now.
My question is, can I allready start using Dash LINK to log my rides when using a wahoo elemnt? I don’t expect to be able to use all the ability’s. If so it would be great to get some practice with the platform.
Nico,
Absolutely!! Stages Link accepts all kinds of ride file formats, and I know the good folks at Wahoo respect the FIT standard, so theres nothing keeping you from giving all the tools in Link (apart from the ones that allow you to customize your dash settings and manage your stages power meters) a try. It’s powered by Todays Plan, which is where all kinds of fancy tools are created for digging deeper into your rides than you knew you could.
Link app update coming soon too, so that will also work for you on your Link exploration.
Can the M50 be mounted in landscape orientation like the original Dash, or would I need to go for the L50 if I want landscape…?
Mayhem,
We still support both on all units! We did emphasize an orientation for both units by designing the buttons along one edge, however, on both units when you mount them in their alternate orientation, the buttons are still readily accessible along one side.
Hi – While I currently use a triathlon watch vs a head unit these units look very capable and reasonably priced for the features.
I am interested in learning more about the ANT+ reliability in terms of data capture from a Stages Gen 3 power meter. I currently use a Garmin 920XT with a Left side only Gen 3 and have found the power meter readings to be unreliable. After trying all of the suggestions on Stages website it has improved but not to the point I trust the data. It appears that I will be buying a stationary head unit if I want reliable data from the power meter.
All that said when I am in the aero position (which is a majority of the time) the head unit will need to be positioned well forward above the water bottle (see attached pic) thereby having the same potential interference issues of water, aluminum, and plastic between the unit and power meter. Do you expect the M50/L50 to be able to overcome these and get reliable readings?
Matt,
Im sorry to hear about the connectivity woes you are having with your watch. It sounds like you have had the full detail from the CS guys so I wont try to do a better job than they can here.
I have attached a picture of your bike with a few mounting solutions we will offer with Dash M50 and L50 computers.
My first suggestion would be to use the new top cap mount to center the device right where you can see it in your aero position. You could also use the anywhere mount in this same location (or on your top tube, which i often do for testing many head units at once).
My more out there suggestion would be to mount the device on the outside of your TT bars with the TT mount.
I hope this helps!
Nice review/update !
Hi Jim from Stages,
Two questions on this,
1 – Will the L10 have the feature to auto-determine FTP and zones as the M50/L50 ?
2 – Is there any kind of “livetracking” feature planned ? ( To let the wife know where you are).
I also had connectivity issues with Stages Gen2 PM along with Garmin headunits, as was almost at the point of purchasing the original Dash, but the lack of livetracking pushed me the Wahoo way.
But seeing this products makes me want it ! ( Along with the aging eyes ).
For me, if the L10 has the auto-zones feature, I can almost ignore livetracking at that pricepoint.
To go the L50 way, livetracking would be interesting, as at that price-point the competition has it ! ( Wahoo / Garmin / Lezyne that I know of ).
Paulo,
Great questions. Our answers:
1. Unfortunately not. The L10 lacks the memory to do this. The L10 is, however, fully integrated to the new Link App and as always the Link Web platforms. We send you alerts when you achieve your best 20min power (and a whole slew of other records) during an uploaded ride, which you can use to indicate you need to think about updating your FTP.
2. With the new Link App improvements, we are certainly planning on adding this as a Link App feature in the near future. We’re still polishing off the fancy new sync process so all of the latest activity overviews, workout and course syncs, and performance analysis are working perfectly for launch.
So, that was not great news for you, but I think it’s important you get the right computer for your needs. Since live tracking is planned as an App level feature, when L10 has it, M50 and L50 also have it. The L50 is going to be a whole new level of visibility at its price point. The map and workouts alone are fully colored to make it simple to know what is happening at a glance, and the size of the display and resolution make it the best computer for aging eyes, no question.
Believe me, we have a super team of developers hammering out features at the moment, and we will be ticking items off the list. Look for the DCR In-Depth review of the new 50 series when it comes out, there is a lot of stuff in those computers that rethink features we all assume are the same.
Thanks for the quick and detailed reply.
The L10 seems great value, but the L50 is pure eye candy, from what has been shared, and we cyclists are anything but rational.
The colors seem a great improvement. I really like the leds on the wahoo and this seems even better.
If there an option to invert some fields as well it would be even more visible.
(Black background on Power for example)
Well, if I take your word on livetracking and the L50 is made available, I might order it and make my own review instead of waiting for Rays !!
Any deals planned for existing Power meter owners ?
Thanks again for the great feedback, this is where Stages really excels.
Paulo,
I’d say I have a past of getting suckered in to the shiny colorful thing in the past. Im not sorry about that.
All of our computers have an inverted setting (L10 its called Inverse, M50/L50 has day and night mode). Right now its looking pretty dang cool to see all those colors standing out on the dark background. I think it will be my default.
As the engineering guy, I am not privy to any past Stages power owner sales. The thing Stages Power meter owners do get with Dash is a way to track their zero resets and battery life on the Link website, which is pretty cool.
Hang in there, we want these things on the market as much as you do, but then again, we both want them to be great first. Soon!
Jim – really appreciate your posts but you guys are killing me…. wife is asking for birthday wish list and I can’t put the L50 on it!
Trust me, getting the L50 out so you can have it for your birthday is actually MY birthday wish.
Any chance you can convince her, after all these years, that your birthday is just a bit later?
We’re close!
Hey Jim.
I can see Stages has a mount for the Dash to pair with the Pro stealth evo.
For us using Wiliers Alabarda handlebar or the Visions Metron 5d could we expect to see mounts in the future?
Thanks again for all the information above!
Bjorn,
I will say we picked a heck of a time to innovate on what we saw as a sub-par mounting standard, suddenly everyone is making custom aero road bars!
We want our computers to look streamlined and integrated with your bike, which is why we are setting up some small batch aluminum mount runs to accommodate our most aero of customers. In your case, these bars did not make it to my list (however they are on there now), so we made a mount that we know will fit every bar on the market: the Anywhere Mount.
You will for sure be able to use the anywhere mount. That will give us a little time to work through all the crazy new integrated bar mount ideas everyone has, until hopefully everyone agrees that 2 bolts lined up along the bottom of the stem is the way to go ;)
Quick (but basic) question on your maps: do they show street names?
Some other platforms don’t, and that can make navigation tricky.
Thank you
Giles
Giles,
We are currently playing with that right now! Since we use the OSM, all of the text we could ever want is available to us to display, however, right now we are struggling to see if it is useful with all the bike specific styling we do on the roads, and with courses pushing navigational cues and points of interest in an overlay, we have yet to find a good amount of text to include that does not clutter up the map unnecessarily.
The important thing here is we CAN do it, but you will see, it might not be the best thing. Maybe we will make it a setting in the future, but I would bet that at launch we will keep that text off the map until we see a really good reason to include it beyond our navigational course cues.
Thanks Jim. Appreciate your response. I have to say that Garmin seem to strike a good balance with text on their maps. Wahoo and Lezyne don’t (seem) to put any street names which can make navigation in unfamiliar areas difficult. For my money a setting to enable different levels of text would be really handy. Anyway I’m looking forward to giving one of your devices a try when they’re available and we’ll see how it goes.
We will take a look. I know Garmin also lists the street in a status bar style at the top, something else to consider.
We really want to put our cycling specific maps out there and then grow into addressing these things with feedback from people like you. I genuinely wonder once you put a course on the Dash 2, with the quality of the maps, nav cues and elevation profile, whether you will want street names cluttering up the display. Or if you simply go for a exploration without a course, if you will prefer the cycling specific metadata we indicate with colors, or if street names would be a higher priority.
Is there a datafield avaible with the name of the next roite/waypoint?
Sander,
There is a whole page available that tells you the upcoming nav/poi cues! We also put a dot on the course path in the map to indicate every navigation and POI location.
We could certainly add an individual data field, that’s a good idea. We will add it to the list for post launch and it should come quick, it will not be difficult to do.
Looking forward to these units. Just purchased a Stages LR, my first PM.
John,
That’s great news! Can’t wait to get them out to you. I know you really mean just one of the two, but did you know, you could buy both an M and an L for less than a Garmin 1030? Just sayin…
Just might, I have 3 Garmins, 3 Stages would work too.
I have my Garmin 1030 mounted out front and was hoping your over stem mount attached to the right of the stem but it looks like it has to be mounted on the left side of the stem, same as Garmin. Its not reversible is it? I assume your Anywhere Mount can go on the stem also?
Thanks again.
John,
We left room for the Di2 controls often located to the right of the stem on MTBs, hence the left side mounting of our over stem MTB mount. I didn’t much consider the presence of another bike computer out there :)
I’ll bet you can stack the 2 mounts to the left, I’ve done this for multi computer testing in the past. And yes, the anywhere mount will handle any mounting challenge. I might also recommend ditching that Garmin 1030, ours has better maps and “maserati” workouts and zone colored data fields and a brighter display and…. that’s enough out of me.
Dear Stages,
Are any further updates for Gen 2 Stages powermeters in the pipeline? Many people still own these units and still have frequent power reading dropouts and connectivity issues. I have been through all the customer service options and the problem still persists. It seems that the signal was just to weak to provide a reliable connection with the head unit when these units were made. Can anything be done to resolve this? Can Stages do any sort of firmware release to resolve this for so many users?
Philip,
I’m not cool enough to be on the CS team, so I can’t pull up your history with them to see the struggles you have patiently tried to work through, but what I do know is that while some people do have some connectivity issues, it is a small percentage of units shipped from Gen 2. I assume you’ve been through the gambit with the CS folks so let’s not get into it here. If it’s still a problem for you, get back in touch and let’s see if we can get you fixed up. We’re here to tell you your power, so lets make sure were doing that!
Hi Jim,
Thanks for your reply. Yes I am still having issues. Actually my Stages Gen 2 has never worked properly from the day I got it. Previously I had a Gen 1 unit which worked flawlessly for over 2 years, I never experienced any faults or dropouts with it at all until it finally succumbed to water ingress which as we now know was a common problem caused by the door seals on those Gen 1 units. I contacted Stages and after sending them some photos of corrosion in the battery housing they replaced it with a Gen 2, and I was very happy thinking my troubles were over. However since day one the Gen 2 has never worked as it should, with very frequent dropouts. I contacted Stages again very early in the piece and was told I must have been mounting it wrong! That I should mount it on the stem and not on my out front mount even though that is where the Gen 1 was mounted with never any problems. So I did mount it on the stem and it still didn’t work. I contacted Stages again and was then told to do a full reset of my head unit. I was reluctant to do that but I did it anyway because I was so hopeful of getting the dropout problem resolved. Unfortunately that didn’t work either and Stages said to send the device in to them for testing. I did that also including numerous printouts of my Strava files which clearly showed the very regular power dropouts. Despite this Stages sent it back saying they couldn’t find any problem with it and therefore would not send me another unit. Well I was very disappointed and still am, and my unit still doesn’t work propery. When the Gen 3 was released, Stages made a big song and dance about these new units having a 6 times stronger antenna than the previous Gen 2 which led me to think I was correct when I suspected that the Gen 2 units were indeed released with an antenna problem. Anyway if you are somehow able to resolve my situation I would be very grateful.
Hey Philip!
This is Aaron at Stages. I work for the CS team. Please reach out either to me personally, acasey at stagescycling.com or to our support portal support at stagescycling.com and we’ll see what we can do for you!
Look like fantastic headunits, any update on when they will be launched in UK? Particularly excited about the L50.
Great article by the way, and loving all the content on YouTube as well.
Same question for me, from Spain ¡¡¡¡
“Early spring” I got as answer on their FB promo post…
David, Carlos and Nico,
Like I just told Rob, were close. Turns out Ray nailed it in his video, as I believe tomorrow is March. Were close, but need to finish up the final bits before were happy to ship. We will certainly let you know when we do!
So when can we buy these??
Is there an updated release date for the colour models??
Cash waiting….
Rob,
Were close. Were not done with the finishing touches on our launch features, but all the things Ive talked about in the comments are there. There are a lot of things that are not fun to talk about in the final weeks that you have to do before sending it off to the world. When we know, you’ll know.
I understand that the workout modes will be based primarily on power but wondering if they can be used with hr. I’ve got a few bikes but only one with a pm so being able to use a different metric when out on my gravel bike for instance rather than power would be great. And no I can’t swap the power meter around, different cranks and pedals so stuck with the pm on the road bike.
David,
Absolutely! First of all, Dash will support FIT format workouts, so any of those you can get your hands on are good to go (workout graph included!). Stages Link allows definition of power, heart rate, and cadence targets for each workout step, so you are covered there as well. We also finally figured out the right way to allow our users to decide the age old question: Do workout steps automatically advance or not? Well, you choose! Pick all, none, or only active intervals to advance at the end of the duration.
You should ask me more questions about our workouts, because I like talking about it.
Hi Jim
Sounds good. So it’s not just your workouts we’ll be able to do then, we can upload any we want? With your workouts are they individual ones or full programs on the head unit and what software can we use for analysis, is it your own or something like training peaks?
Dave
Dave,
Sorry I missed this. As long as you are adding FIT workouts to the Dash, you are good to go. Were looking at the next file to support (erg, zwo).
I think we sorted the rest of this out in later comments. Link has full training programs and a workout library managed by Stages coaches. You can get a training program according to your needs and availability, and all those workouts are synced to your dash.
Oh and I just emailed Stages and they said they couldn’t say exactly when they’d be out but they were very close.
David,
Very.
– Jim
That’s great, can’t wait! Hopefully we’ll hear of the release via your newsletter so we can sell our Garmin’s before lots of others do and drag the prices down! lol
Jim,
You have no idea how much I want an M50.
“Very” was 10 days ago….you guys are killing me!
10 days! Ha! Been waiting on theses since last summer! lol Knew as soon as I saw the specs for the L10 I’d want one! Kind of glad they aren’t rushing it to market and using early buyers as beta testers so won’t complain, well no much anyway! lok
I’ve been waiting since the initial announcement too, just pushing a little more since we got “Very Close” message from them.
I’m not _really_ complaining, just fanboying a bit. :)
Jim,
When I’m out cycling I often see a pub or cafe that I’d like to come back to later with my wife.
Is there a way I can quickly drop a pin to remind me, without having to go through a long winded menu and naming sequence?
The lads I’m cycling with will all have pedaled off if I stop so it’s needs to be easy whilst moving.
Cheers
Scott,
Ive added that feature request to our list, as we dont have pin dropping in the launch release. We do have a map that already places icons on things we thought cyclists would like, like bars, public bathrooms, bike shops, and coffee shops. So, in this case, we’ve already dropped a pin on the map for you!
Cheers for the response Jim (and on a Sunday too). It’s the remembering and returning to the pin after the ride that’s important to me, not getting there during the ride. The kudos I get taking my wife to a nice cafe ;-)
Scott,
The new Dash knows no weekends!
Ill note that in the idea, that makes more sense. Your general want is to log an interesting thing on your ride quickly. Maybe we can add a button to our zoom and pan menu for quick and easy pinning. We will think about it.
Yes, that’s exactly right an interesting thing.
Expanding on the idea, time too e.g. when did the car close pass me so I can go back to my cam footage easily.
Does Stages have it’s own software to use with the head units? I’m just trying to decide which way to jump regarding training/monitoring software so if Stages has some it\d be worth a look before deciding. I’m leaning towards Trainerroad but understand Stages have a lot of workouts on their units, is this backed up by any PC software?
Yup, and honestly, it’s really damn good – easily the best out of any of the head unit companies in terms of depth.
You can see a bit of it on my previous original Stages Dash review, especially the website. Though, the mobile app has been significantly updated since that review.
After asking that, I remembered it from your video. It’s a skin over Today’s Plan isn’t it with a few extras. I’ve used that during a academy thing with Zwift and Dimension Data. It was pretty good but a bit pricey if I remember. Any idea on the cost?
David,
All new Stages customers get 2 months of Premium free. After that its either $20 per month or $200 per year.
As Ray mentioned, Link is crazy powerful. For $20 per month, you can get fully customized training plans that sync to your dash and guide you step by step through your workout, with color coded compliance and a workout graph colored by zones.
As Ray also mentioned, we have completely revamped our app to bring the power of Link to the mobile user. There is a very powerful community version of the app that will allow you to automatically push rides to linked sites, review activities, and analyze rides.
Sounds good. Does it support any indoor training?
I think the pricing is still high on Link. Pros and cons with everything – Link, Todays Plan, TrainingPeaks… Dash is by far easiest to use with Today’s Plan or Link and designed that way. Wish that it was more interoperable with all platforms, but I get it.
Re: indoor training – I have the original Dash and as of right now, I can’t get the GPS to turnoff for indoor rides. Not a big deal, just when it pushes to Strava, your two hour ride will will be a few minutes from all your side to side rocking on the trainer! All other data still updates fine to other training platforms.
Patrick and David,
The new Dashes will allow you to turn off GPS indoors to avoid those annoying scribbles that Patrick is referring to indoors. Apart from that, the dash can pair to your sensors and trainers with power and report all of that normally to the UI and in the ride file. Were aiming to do a bunch of cool stuff this summer before we add trainer control (plan to have it out just in time for us northern hemisphere folks to enter the pain cave).
We made a lot of effort to make sure all of our Dash customers can take their rides anywhere they want by supporting the FIT ride file format. We also added the ability to add workouts and courses to the dash via USB so you can ride just about any workout or course file you can find on the dash, Link or not. While link brings you a lot of extra stuff, like syncing calendar workouts, calendar and favorite courses, map regions and managing all your settings and page layouts for your dash, we still understand people want to take their Dash elsewhere. That’s also why we wiil expand the number of 3rd party ride pushes we support so you can get your ride files sent automatically to your 3rd party accounts through the automatic syncing of rides to the link app or web.
Thanks Jim. Appreciate the insight. I can’t help but to think Link could be suited as a tiered package. Free version, silver, gold or something similar. Gold has all the features you spoke of and silver doesn’t have all the workout / coaching programs that not everyone needs if they are self coached or have their own coach.
Aside from that off shoot, when importing FIT workouts, will the lap text still be available? In my opinion, that was absolutely tops in the workout feature and the main reason I went with the Dash – being able to know what was up next, see all my laps and have a on screen text in the workout saying the goals for the particular interval or a nice little motivational quote :)
Patrick,
When we push the new app, and since you are already using Link you will get the update automatically, you might consider it at a silver level of functionality.
That said, its a great suggestion. Ill bring it up.
For the new Dashes we’ve only improved on that, check out the image I attached to this task, its a feature we are finishing up testing right now and available at launch!
Cool! Link / Today’s Plan was great to use when building the workouts with the intervals and the calendar sync was awesome – being able to just have everything pushed to the Dash automatically was great. If those features were available at a competitive cost, I’d definitely come back from Peaks.
Hi Ray, great platform you are maintaining!!
I am looking for a device that has navigation map and elevation profile in one screen, but zoomable. In few devices (eg navi2coach) one can both zoom out on the elevation profile to overview what is ahead and zoom in to estimate the distance to the summit. It would be great to have this next to a navigation map or breadcrumb trail in a split screen or, alternatively, on two subsequent pages. Would the L10 or M50 be able to do this?
Hmm, I’d have to defer to Stages on that one right now (they’re here in the comments frequently answering questions), as I don’t remember off-hand and don’t currently have the new units yet.
Sorry!
“and don’t currently have the new units yet.”
I guess that means its still going to be awhile until release.
Roel,
Like this picture I just snapped of my test unit? Thats a gradient colored elevation profile with a course and a power and heart rate field all on one page, that i just made custom for you. Our map has an elevation profile option you can enable to view it along the bottom like pictured, and since our map is a data field, you can add it to any page, in any size, to see any data you want to see at the same time as you follow a course or explore the cycling map (note the brown trails, that’s the bike park in Boulder).
We are not zooming the elevation profile with the map quite yet, but you can add a data field called “ascent to next” which gives you the amount of climbing to the next navigation cue or point of interest on the map. If you build a course in Stages Link, and add a POI to the top of a climb, you wont even have to zoom in to know how long to go. Also, our elevation profile shows progress along the course, and with the high resolution, its pretty easy to tell how much more fun (or suffering) remains.
Ill add your suggestion to our ideas list. Its a good one.
Hi James, thanks for clarification.
The map as a data field is ingenious, as is having the elevation profile in different colors for ascending and descending.
An elevation profile of a whole course on such a small screen, however, is quite useless in terms of rider info when doing a hilly 150+ km ride. Adding POI’ is what I once tried with another device, but it is a whole preparation puzzle each time to get your course ready.
I wonder why some devices only show two miles and others only the whole course. My suggestion would be to add a data field with elevation profile of 1km behind and 4 or 5 km ahead.
Roel,
Thanks for the compliment! We think making everything a data field is just simpler. We do have a few full page things like the navigation cue sheet and workout step sheet that we require be full page fields, but otherwise, its free reign out there. Make a 1×1 map if you want, does not bother me (might not be super useful but who am I to tell you what you like?).
You are right, a course that large will not produce an elevation profile with the kind of detail you are looking for (although, wait until you see the L in Landscape mode, it just might be enough for you right out of the box). Making the elevation profile its own data field is already on the list of things we plan to do, which will allow us to expose a setting to the user to manage their zoom level. I dont know why other companies do what they do, but for us, this should be relatively straightforward and we will have it quite soon after launch.
Few suggestions and questions for Jim @ stages…
Suggestion:
An adapter that allows me to use one of these new stages unit on those fancy garmin mounts that screw in using your stem bolts. Simply lock it into your garmin mount and away you go. Or, if copyright is an issue, a file that would allow one to be 3d printed
Questions:
1) Will these units show traditional TSS, NP and IF after a given ride (and during that ride, as they refresh/update?)
2) Will these units show CTL/ATL and TSB (and will this be on the unit itself, via Link, or both?)
2) Will these units show an estimated FTP based on accumulated ride data (and will this be on the unit itself, via Link, or both?)
3) Will the workout functionality be as usable on the black and white version as on the colour version (in other words, does the interface rely on colours, or will the actual data fields and widget layout stand on their own?)
Really hoping this can (finally) be the successor to my trusty Edge 500. As you can probably tell, I care for numbers, not for maps, strava, radars…
Cheers!
Rob,
Since this forum has been so excellent in logging features for us, we created a public ideas log for anyone to request a feature of the new Dash computers:
link to dashpublic.ideas.aha.io
To answer your questions:
1. Yes!
2. You can view these metrics in Link web or app (not on the dashes yet, although I logged a feature request in the public ideas log for it). In fact, each ride detail view of the link web and app show you how the ride changed those values.
3. We do not show an estimated FTP on the Dash, and I have added this to the ideas log.
4. Great question, and yes. The colors are a benefit of M50 and L50, but absolutely not a requirement to follow a workout. We present text for each target and duration for each step, and on all devices there are ways to see text of upcoming steps as well.
Thanks for the great comment!
Fast becoming vapourware this one, thought we’d have a release date by now, but seems like they’re still working out feature set.
Yes, was hoping they would be ready for the start of the season, not looking likely. Starting to consider other options, and may have to “settle” for something else.
These are looking like a next season job or a Christmas present!
Jim at Stages replied “Very Close” in comment #159 on March 1st. Three weeks ago. I’m sure they have good reason for the delay, but one typically wouldn’t assume “very (close to release)” to mean nearly a month.
Unfortunately I leave for training camp tomorrow morning with no new Dash M50. :(
Hey Rob, John, and Marrocco,
I did not mean to mislead any of you by saying very close, I think for me, after working on this project for nearly 2 years now, a month to 6 weeks seems in the very close category. I realize that may not be totally apparent to anyone not sitting at their desk at 8pm responding to comments on DCR :)
We’ve got a huge amount of stuff rolling out together: L10: The cheapest most powerful bike computer out there. M50: Cheaper than Garmin 520 Plus, better courses, better workouts, better maps, better data. L50: M50 but bigger and lasts longer. Link app: Easy macro analysis, detailed micro analysis, manage your Stages computers. Link web improvements with a course builder, pro tour features, workouts, and data push to 3rd parties.
We’re in the final stages of testing all of this new stuff now, which certainly takes a lot of time to get right. Im with you, trust me, I want this stuff out there as much (more?) than anyone, but not until its the full system we want, as bike riders.
I think its worth the wait.
Thanks Jim, certainly never meant to imply you were being misleading, its just tough waiting for new gear sometimes. I love my Stages LR power meter and have been using the Link web which I find more comprehensive already than any other training logs I’ve used. Can’t wait to see the improvements and I’m first in line for an L50.
Thanks for your time here its appreciated as always.
John Marrocco
While I really can’t wait for the L10 I’m really pleased you aren’t pushing it to market half baked. So I’m happy to wait for what I think will be a game changing product.
John,
You have every right to be frustrated! As does anyone else in this thread hoping to try something new, and try it as the season ramps up. I think as Ray often points out, or at least something I pick up on as a part of the development side of these products, cycling companies can’t meet the same aggressive and incredible schedules as a company like Apple, which we all have come to expect as normal, so often we push these things out too soon.
The only reason its not in your hands right now is it needs to meet the expectations we all have of our integrated technology products, which is a different expectation even from 2 years ago. The thing about these kinds of integrations is they can’t really be half baked, hence also not putting a release in Ray’s hands to pick apart. For us, once it’s ready for him it’s basically ready for you. There is no middle ground between “create a Link account, make a bunch of workouts or 3rd party connections, and sync your files and settings all over the place” because once one setting or file is synced, they basically all are.
Anyways, we’re taking a technically heavy stance in this forum thanks to Ray’s audience, mainly because we hope you all find it useful. Thanks for sticking with Stages, there’s a ton of cool stuff on the horizon!
Sorry if this is covered already. Is the mounting bracket for the L/M50 the same as the current stages dash sdl1?
Thanks
Andrew
Andrew,
Unfortunately, it is not. We made some adjustments to the look and functionality of the aluminum-aluminum interface for M50 and L50, and also retooled everything for the L10 to make that family of computers all work with a more future proof mount.
We are very open to working with you to accommodate whatever difficulty this causes you, so feel free to drop the CS team a note if this ends up being an issue for you.
Thanks Jim. Understood. No problems for me I will hold off until the new ones are released.
Cheers
Andrew
Hi Jim,
I’m an cyclist (and coach) who does elite races in Belgium, where cycling is in it’s most popular place in the world, and there are a lot of riders and teams changing from Garmin, Wahoo, Brighton, etc to other brands because it never answers their needs.
So me and some others are waitig to test the Stages M50, but the main question is obvious. Have you any idea when it’s gonna be available on the market? I do understand and apreciate the idea of not rushing it in the end, but is the release in a few weeks, few months, half a year?
And does Stages wants riders/teams in Belgium (Flanders) to ride and promote it?
Regards,
Tom
Tom,
We’re on a weeks basis for sure. We have a few things that need to be sorted out and tested, but our testers are starting to report more great experiences than issues, which is right where we want to be!
You can always contact our marketing department for any sponsorship requests. We’re always all ears for those things, even if it may or may not work out.
While we’re waiting ;) A question about on the road workouts. Can I program say a half hour sprint intervals session and call that up when I’m at a suitable bit of road, do the workout and go back to my ride and have it all appeare as one ride after?
David,
Yep, that is possible on the M50/L50, there is an in-ride menu that gives you full access to the Dash. However, we did something cool on these units you may want to consider:
You can set the Auto Lap feature on the dash to be always on, active laps, or always require a lap button press.
In most workout builders, when you define an “On” interval, it actually is defined as such in the FIT workout file, which allows us to expose a setting where only active intervals automatically end upon completion of the prescribed duration. This way, you can define a warmup effort for your workout that is basically endless (requires lap button press), without sacrificing the convenience of auto lapping when you are pinned at the end of an active interval.
Nobody is doing this. We hope to push the industry towards this convention, but for now, we’re the only ones :)
So not on the L10 then, pity :( Aren’t us with less money allowed such things. I get that some features have to go on cheaper models but these are training platforms and not including key training features seems a bit mean. I’d rather have those than mapping to be honest. I’ve got a GPS with way better maps than any head unit in my pocket. What I haven’t got is a full featured training device. I thought the price difference between the units was size and screen, not features.
Jim, on another subject. If you are looking for testers and reviewers, I’d give a guy called Jasper Verkuijl a shout. He’s a elite armature racer and got a decent and growing following on YouTube. I also know he’s fed up with his Bolt dropping out on him. I’ve no connection with him other than been follloing him for a while.
David,
If you wanted to do this on the L10 it would be easy, but just a little different:
L10 workout steps auto lap when they are under a minute, when they are over a minute you need to press the lap button to advance to the next step. So in your example, if you built an interval that was over a minute for the first step of the workout, you could ride it for the rest of the day and the Dash L10 would happily wait patiently for you to move on to lap 2, where you could start up some structure. That’s pretty common in all the library workouts you have access to as a premium member of Link.
Na, we are not trying to mess with anyone. We would pack the L10 with a ton more features if there was space on the hardware, but the simple fact is the cost goes up to get more computing power, RAM, and storage on the device. We simply can’t put more on it, it’s not even a choice for us!
The L10 will still be the maserati of workouts, as Ray said. We are the only company that can provide Power, Heart Rate, Cadence, and RPE targets, with text cues, all at the same time. And we are also the only company in the world that gives you a compliance score after your ride in Link by using your actual workout data compared to your ride data. That’s pretty spiffy for $149.
Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot more features in the M50 and L50 than there are in the L10 by virtue of what hardware we are able to buy, nothing else. We don’t sell you a computer without power on it, and have an upcharge for that feature on the (seemingly) exact same device like someone else i know ;)
Hi jim i know this one is for biking and mtb but can you use it as a hiking gps or is that really not going to work
Is the map not detailed enough for hiking
Gr dennis
Dennis,
There are a lot of times when I am mountain biking that a hiker could probably pass me!
Some hiking specific devices are optimized for slower movement, or track steps, and maybe that would give you a bit better data in that we do not show you step count. You could certainly track your elevation, climb, descent, distance, time, speed, etc like you would on a bike, even heart rate! Currently our activity files are marked as cycling, so we would sync your activity as such to Link or other sites, but you can edit that, and I will log an idea in our portal to allow you to somehow change the activity type on the dash or the app. Its a good idea. Any other ideas, log them here: link to dashpublic.ideas.aha.io
As for the maps, go check out the Open Street Map: link to openstreetmap.org
If the trail is on that map, its on the Dash, so you can be the judge of whether it would work well for you!
Hey Ray or Jim,
Will muscle oxygen sensors, like the Humon Hex, be supported at launch or in the future?
Not at launch but certainly in the future. Its on the list. Any specific metric you wish other computers had for when we do take on the task?
Oh for the love of God release them already ? Got money waiting for one but seen some nice Sidi shoes! Already got 3 pairs but I’m weak, so I need saving from myself ??
My apologies if this has already been posted. I don’t currently train with power (though I might some day). My 9 year old Garmin Edge 800 is ready to be retired. What I’m especially interested in is a great mapping device with great color and contrast for readability in the bright sunshine we get here in Florida. The color-coded elevation strip charts sound fantastic. They’re completely unnecessary down here in Florida, but I’ll travel anywhere for a good climb. Distance to next local maximum would be very helpful as well. Is this the right device for me?
Michael,
This is why we pushed so hard to get a bright color display and incorporate the OSM into the Dash L50 and M50. We dont show you the distance to next local point on a map, however, if you create a course in link you can add a POI at the top of a climb, and the Dash has a data field called “distance to next” as well as “ascent to next” which will show you the distance and ascent to the next POI or navigation cue on the course. In this case, once you are on the climb, you will have exact distance and ascent remaining.
Hope that helps.
Not sure if this is still the relevant place to post this, but it seems that the units actually popped up on a website. At this place they seem to be selling the L50 and the M50 (warning: website in Dutch, couldn’t find a translate button).
Both are actually labelled to be in stock. However I have my doubts about these, as the release is not quite here yet (from what I understand). (Furthermore, they also seem to have the L10. However, looking at both the pricing and pictures, it just seems to be the existing dash.)
Is this just a scam or are some units really finding their way to the market? Maybe someone could clarify why this is happening.
At this moment in time I am still in doubt which system to get (Bolt, 520, M50), but soon I will need to make a decision. Really hoping that at that point a comparison will be available. This actually is not a point of critique, I applaud that you are doing your best to create an awesome and well functioning device.
Gijs,
There are no L10, M50, or L50 computers for sale anywhere in the world. Any reference to them being on sale should be avoided. If we were selling them right now I would be in this comment section yelling to the heavens about it.
Careful out there!
Jim,
That’s exactly what I thought. Thank you for the confirmation and warning though, I appreciate it very much.
Good luck with the final bits!
Hi Jim,
Just an FYI.
Another site selling: link to racycles.com
Regards.
Interesting. RA Cycles is usually pretty reputable.
Thanks guys, it looks like they’ve used some M50 artwork to sell a Dash 1. We are working with them to resolve the problem. Could just be an honest mistake.
Hey Jim!
When will you be able to give us a date? Or at least a not before XY?
Cheers!
I just saw on Stages’ Instagram that they said “Hopefully May” in response to someone asking for a release date there.
I appreciate they want it to be perfect, but I don’t get how the big hype followed by constantly slipping release dates is good marketing… I know nothing official has ever been announced, but it seems like we’re getting unofficial dates that don’t materialize. Ray’s comments above say “they’ll say February, but I’d put my money on early March”. Well, now it’s mid-April and latest word is “hopefully May”.
This is all very frustrating. I bought two of the original Stages Dash on the promise of maps, etc. That never happened. Now I’m stuck with those and four mounts that won’t work with the new devices that are perpetually delayed. Feeling kind of bate-and-switched by Stages.
Disappointing to see the May release mentioned in the Instagram post, after this slipped from last fall to February, then March, and now April looks doubtful. Velonews editors showed pics of the M50 they used in the Tour of Flanders Sportive last weekend and the WT sponsored teams are using the units as well, so they have units being used. Ray’s update earlier this year seemed so positive. This makes me wonder if they are having more problems than expected with the software??
Jamie, Ancker and Moritz,
I am personally heading to France this week to do some final testing with the UAE team, both to review software as well as put the mounts and computers through their paces on the cobbles.
I do not want you guys to feel like we are here to dupe or mislead you. Kristoff did just do some media for us, and we did run the Velonews editors through the units for Gent-Wevelgem, but the only units in the world right now being ridden actively are our beta group of testers, reliably reporting issues and making sure things are good enough for my trip this week, and then for launch.
Ancker,
I have notified the support crew that you feel this way, we don’t want to leave anyone in the lurch here, so please drop them an email: support@stagescycling.com. We’ve got some ideas to make sure your concerns (Maps and Mounts) are taken care of.
Moritz,
We plan to announce timing once we get through Roubaix with the team.
Jamie (and others that feel similar to you),
Anyone who reads Ray’s site knows how many companies have come at Garmin and failed. If we have a problem, its that we understand how big of a task it is to replace someone’s computer/app/web cycling environment with a better one. When I say “someone” that can mean Dan Martin, Moritz the well read cyclist, the rest of the folks in this comment section, or someone much less fast, or well read, or has never read a word about a cycling computer in their life, but wants to turn on a bike computer and actually say “woah, look at that, that’s so cool” without having to dig around for some feature they can add to a data field or 3rd party app. It’s our goal, and we are sticking to it.
I appreciate your and everyone else’s feedback here. We even have some folks logging feature requests of their own in our public log: link to dashpublic.ideas.aha.io
On to Roubaix, thankfully I’m not the one bolted to pro tour bikes on the cobbles (although you may enjoy seeing that ;) )
Hey Jim
I kniw me and some of the others have been giving you a hard time regarding the release of these but from my point og view it’s just frustration based on wanting to get one. Don’t think for a second you are being misleading about anything. You are totally right, to take on the other players your product has got to be right from the start. Garmin can get away with releasing half baked products because they basically own the market but if you do it, that could kill it before it starts. Makes sense testing through the classics season, if they survive that they’ll survive anything we can throw at them. To be fair, there’s probably only a handful of us following this as close as we are, so don’t think your marketing is off at all. Everyone else will just see the launch and benefit from the time you’ve taken. Lastly, I think it’s great someone like yourself takes the time to come here and answer our questions and keeps us honestly updated. Cheers buddy.
100% agree, well said
Jim:
How did Roubaix go for the new Dash? Any updates on release?
Hi Jim,
Garmin have now released 2 brand new computers the 530 and 830 along with new sensors. I have been very much been looking forward to the new Dash as I love my Stages power meter and wanted to buy into the whole Stages Eco System. However it seems that Garmin have trumped the new Dash. Garmin new climbing metrics look amazing along with their mapping. These new metrics telling where you are on the climb and other useful data is exactly what I was hoping from the new Dash. It is such a shame that Stages can not do these climbing metrics. To be fair I’m a little disappointed. I was going to be a sure fire customer for the new Dash. I will now have to rethink my purchase. If Stages Link was a lot cheaper and the new Dash gets similar or better updates than the new Garmins then I might reconsider. In my humble opinion the better value for me and cheaper option also probably better option is to get the new Garmin and search for a more cheaper training tool to work with. I am too not they only person thinking this?
I’m sure you aren’t on your own but from a lot of comments I’ve seen about the new garmin units is that there’s too many features. Looks to me like they’ve loaded them up with everying they can think of regardless of its real world use. Most would just be software things so I’m sure if there was call for it, Stages could do it. Plus, I’m never beta testing for garmin again! Want a bet these have been rushed to market because of the Stages coming out soon?
That’s pretty cynical David. Maybe they’ve come out when Garmin wanted them to, and stages are just way way late. You’ve already ‘launched’ yours twice and you still can’t buy them.
Garmin are tried and tested market leaders in this field.
I’m thinking of getting an 830 now. Looks a great unit.
“Want a bet these have been rushed to market because of the Stages coming out soon?”
The exact date Garmin planned to launch these units has stayed consistent since at least January (the first I heard of them).
Garmin typically has exact launch dates (to the minute/day) locked 6-9 months in advance, often upwards of 12 months in advance. Sometimes things might slide a week or two (out), as Garmin has shifted more recently to announcing only when full production is underway (to try and have product availability at/near launch day). Far too many people underestimate the massive machine that is Garmin manufacturing/distribution/availability. It’s a core reason why they’re as successful as they are. They own everything end to end, even Apple doesn’t have that (on paper, in practice they kinda do).
David, I completely disagree with your comments. Firstly you can never have enough features. You then can appeal to the masses. Garmin have listened and perhaps looked into what features us riders want. For me it is the ClimbPro. I think a lot of us want this on Stages too. I know that Hammerhead have just or in the process of having this implemented on their units. I also want a Computer to control my trainer. I have an original Dash and I have to use my 820 to control my indoor trainer. Also the Garmin units can used across all cycling genres. There are features for MTB, XC and roadies which I personally am all for! I do wish Stages listen to their customers, if they do I’m sure they can produce an excellent unit.
Hi Ray,
In your honest opinion if you were to buy a new Garmin Edge 830 or the new Dash, what would you purchase?
Also will Stages implement ClimbPro and also open there units to apps like Garmin and IQ store?
Many thanks?
Hi,
Just to add my 2 cents, Wahoo is said to be launching a new GPS as well.
Elemnt Roam in the same price range as the L50.
link to weightweenies.starbike.com
Garmin (like Apple in Rays comparison) has lots of fan boys, so it is not easy to get unbiased reviews/opinions.
From past experiences I always got disappointed with Garmin, exception for the Edge 500.
Everything else I owned ( Fênix 2, Edge 810, Edge 820 ) promised lots of features but failed in the basic stuff, like accuracy, battery life or stability.
Fenix series of watches cannot get stable GPS anywhere, so all the fancy vo2max etc etc is based on wrong data.
Edge 820 had everything you could imagine but was constantly dropping Power meter data ( again fancy ftp and whatever calculations based on wrong/absent power Numbers) and battery life when navigating was under 4 hours.
Not to mention strange barometer behaviors from time to time.
I checked this with other owners, all reported similar behaviors. Garmin support is useless.
They work well on ocasions, but are not reliable.
Surprisingly, reviews are always good.
(You can check Garmin forums for feedback from actual owners that used their own money).
Getting off topic, but I would have bought a new Stages L50 last month… Now, maybe wait to see the Elemnt Roam, Garmin is simply not an option for me.
I think stages have missed a trick now. With wahoo and Garmin releasing new products I don’t think stages will get the running start they would have done if they’d released earlier.
I’m waiting for the wahoo now but the 830 is very tempting
So now we are in May and Garmin has released the 530/830 which appear to solve some old issues and have some cool new features and a very positive review from Ray. Wahoo releases a product that is underwhelming but still no word from Stages.
Releasing a good competitive product in this space is clearly very hard. With the dates continuing to slip for Stages it makes me think they must really be struggling with getting the software to be where they need it and makes me worry about being an early purchaser.
Its disappointing and who knows, it could be another 6 months. The offerings from Garmin are tempting. If there is no update on Stages by the time the Garmins are available to purchase in about a week I’ll probably pull the trigger on the 530.
I’m still holding out. May was the latest guidance from Stages themselves. Hopefully they follow through.
The Garmin devices certainly look tempting, but I escaped that ecosystem after several failed 500s, and three bad 510s. They finally replaced my last 510 with a 520 and I promptly sold it and bought the Stages. I really don’t want to re-purchase all those Garmin mounts I sold…
My two Stages have worked absolutely perfectly every time I hit the power button. No more wondering if turning it on would corrupt the config, or if the GPS would just suddenly stop working, etc.
Even though my Stages didn’t get the promised features, and I’m a little grumpy about that, it still works a million times better than my experiences with Garmin. If the new devices have the stability of the original Dash, I’m going to be happy.
Same here Ryan. As I’ve said before, I don’t fancy beta testing for garmin again. Pretty much everything they release has problems. Maybe stages will have some too but I’d rather my money went to them than garmin.
Interestingly, listed for sale here in Canada as of today:
link to mec.ca
link to mec.ca
link to mec.ca
Very interesting…
Things appear to be very close. Those graphics are brand new. I’ve never seen the app images yet either.
Perhaps Stages is lining things up and this place accidentally published early?
Wrong though, isn’t the L10 a black and white display ? Looks like they have the same graphics for the L10 as L50.
So, I contacted Stages through their Facebook page and asked for an update on release. Looks like a May release is out.
Here was the reply:
“Hey John,
Thanks for getting in touch! The new Dash units should be on the market early next month!
Best,
Aaron”
My local shop got some 530’s in yesterday and they held one back for me. If June is the new date for Stages glad I didn’t wait any longer since I needed a new unit.
Well, its the same they have been saying since February so who knows really. I’m thinking hard about getting the 530.
Everything from Stages on this product release seems to be a “wink, wink, nudge, nudge.” If Stages hasn’t had an internal team meeting to address where this project went horribly wrong then shame on them. Nobody like to be jerked around.
February becomes March, March becomes April, April becomes May, May becomes June…
If it’s released early June, product will not ship til close to July.
I, like most of you, have been extremely patient while listening to empty promises.
Meh!
Exactly!
My Edge 830 should arrive any day.
Stages have really missed a trick here where they could have got a jump on the market.
They now will be last to market with next gen computers.
Ah well, maybe in 3 years time eh Stages?
Hey DCR folks,
I know there has been a wait, but we finally are ready to go! We will be globally launching the L10, M50, L50, and new Link apps for iOS and Android on June 10!
We really appreciate the feedback we received early on, and I also appreciate that some of you are frustrated with the time between this article and launch. We had to button it up and get it right, so hopefully that decision is a long term benefit in exchange for some of the frustration.
Now that we see the competition, the M50 and L50 will be the only truly full color bike computer of the new computers released this spring, making the mapping, workouts, courses, and colored data fields a totally new experience for bike computer users. Like I keep noting internally, we have (free!) global maps that you can use with or without a course for exploration of biking specific roads and trails all based on the OSM, we have colored by gradient elevation profiles for all you climbing fans out there, we have data fields that teach you about zones without any prior knowledge, we have workouts on the device out of the box that anyone can ride to see how much better training with the Dash is than anyone else, we have a completely redesigned app that allows you to simply sync your rides to 3rd parties or go deeper in Stages Link with some exciting new tools to get information any level of rider cares about (hey, how many calories did i burn this week, this month, all time?! Look guys, Im a calorie burning machine!), and we have the L10, which at the price point, nobody can get close to the features and quality.
I’ll be here in the comments after Ray’s review to make sure we are taking on any suggestions/feedback you all have, as that has been very useful. Looking forward to it!
Thanks for the update. It’s nice to get a solid launch date.
What’s the shipping projection look like? Will it ship in June or at some later date?
Ryan,
June 10 is when we plan to have the Dash available to buy in stores or online. We are shipping to our distributors before that date to make sure Dashes are available to by on that day.
Hi Jim,
Are you able to share the UK list prices ? We’ve seen the US and Canadian prices already.
I’m holding out for the Stages computer, seems to tick all the boxes for me.
Andy Helm
Thanks Jim. Really looking forward to this and happy there is a solid release date now.
That being said, I know you had previously said current Dash users can contact CS and they’ll help us out with getting setting up with the new Dash and mounts. Hopefully the parameters of that program will be good to those customers (I’ve had two Dashes, one skyrocketed off the mount [my fault] and into a ditch and the replacement has minimal GPS and sensor pickup issues). When will those users be able to reach out to CS and get the ball rolling? I’d like to get squared away, up and running before Tour of America’s Dairyland :)
Best,
Patrick
Hey Jim, that’s great news. On the subject of mounts. Is there a option to have a gopro style mount under the unit. I have my front light mounted under a out front mount and want to keep a similar setup if possible.
David,
Yes, the M50, L50 and L10 mounts will have a bolt pattern on the bottom for accessory attachments. We will sell a GoPro attachment at launch allowing you to seamlessly mount anything that connects to a gopro interface right under the dash.
Patrick,
Yes, get a hold of CS and there is a plan there for you. I think you should contact them a week before on sale (June 3) to get the ball rolling.
Hey, great to hear you are doing ToAD! I grew up in Wisconsin with Superweek and ToAD, taught me how to be a tough bike racer. Good luck out there! Cant wait to see a new dash riding the streets of Wisconsin.
Andy,
Here is the pricing:
L50: $299/E299/GBP249
M50: $249/E239/GBP199
Hope that helps!
Awesome Jim! Thank you! Great to hear about the underneath mount too – will be nice to put a light, etc., for a clean look.
And if I recall, Geargrinder, right? I think I was just getting my feet wet racing and host housing when Kenda / Geargrinder took the overall at Waukesha. Good stuff!
Yep, there are all kinds of great mounts to pick from.
And yes, did it with 5-Hour as well, we kept going back because it was such a fun race to come to. We didn’t do too bad there either ;)
It certainly is a great racing scene we have here! Intelligentsia Cup isn’t too shabby either. I actually happened to park next to Ben Sharp from Stages when the original Dash was coming out at one of the Intelli Road Races and he sold me on the Dash. Be good marketing for y’all to come out here again!
Hi Jim,
Not sure if you are still monitoring, or too busy with the pre-release stuff ;-) You put prices as GBP £249 for the L50 and £199 for the M50. Is that correct as you might wanna change them!
I have money burning a hole in my pocket (and leg) for the L50.
Alex,
Proper sleuthing! I double checked this time, and the prices for dash are as follows:
L50: $299/E299/GBP259/A$499
M50: $249/E239/GBP199/A$399
So you did catch me in error there, but I think those prices are still pretty great :)
Thanks Jim – I wasn’t trying to catch you out, just making sure I read it right. You think the prices are still pretty great, I think they are pretty amazing.
Ray pull ya finger out and get that review up ;-)
Jim, pull ya finger out and get the team to get them on the website for pre-order.
Hi Alex- I don’t have any units yet unfortunately. Hopefully soon!
Looking forward to it. Thanks Ray
link to roadbikereview.com
July 16 2018, stages launch new computers.
Just saying, think there’s already a few ‘launches’
Dear Jim,
I appreciate the update for the release date for the new Dash units. However I’m somewhat sceptical about them and feel rather disappointed with the amount of features.
Garmin new units seem to offer lots more features with their new units. For example the mapping is pure turn by turn and will get you back on track by working out a new route if you go off course. Also their new climb pro feature looks far more detailed than just a small picture of the elevation profile on the device. Also the new Garmin Connect app is smart allowing to download apps such as Xert on to your device from your phone. Another feature that Garmin and Wahoo have is Trainer control.
Wahoo new Elment Roam also still lacks features. Interestingly though the mapping will soon get actual turn by turn.
I hope Stages take note and can be match or better what Garmin can do?
Best wishes
Clive
Hi jim the release will be june 10 but when will the device be on the website gr dennis
Dennis,
We plan to have it available with dealers and on the website on June 10.
Hi Jim,
Will the stock mount that comes with the new Dash units accommodate either 31.8 or 35.0 bars, or will we need to purchase a separate mount for our handlebar diameter of choice? Really looking forward to updating my current Dash!
Best,
Pat
Pat,
The stock mount in the box is an aluminum 31.8mm out front mount. We do offer a 35mm with adapter to 31.8mm mountain bike mount (holds the dash over the bars away from harm). We also have an “Anywhere mount” which is plastic and, in the spirit of the o-ring style mount we all became accustomed to, we added one for the Dash to accomodate any crazy bar the bike companies can dream up!
Hey Jim
Is the plan still for the 10th mate?
Ok, it’s the 10th and I don’t see the unit for sale on any websites. What’s up?
Actually, as of 12 minutes ago the folks at Clever Training sent over the links for all three.
L10: link to clevertraining.com
M50: link to clevertraining.com
L50: link to clevertraining.com
They’re waiting on final word for exact availability dates (for all they know, units could already be en route to them). It sounded like they’d have that clarity in the order of hours, not days.
They’re open on the Stages sight. My order is submitted. :)
Sigam Sports in the UK said end of the week so pre ordered one. Any sightings of other mount options? I need one that has a gopro mount for my light.
Hallo ray when will you do a review off the stages dash gr
The L50 is listed as coming soon and the new Link app does not appear to have been launched yet. But good news no less.
Hi Ray,
Now that the New Stages Dashes are out, any plans of doing a in-depth review of the new Stages Dash L/M50?
Yup, I plan to.
Just pre ordered a L10 from sigma sports. UK price is £139 and got £10 off as a new customer. Sold my old Edge 520 for £140 so winner winner chicken dinner! lol They reckon a week or 2 for additional mounts to arrive. Need a gopro style one to mount my front light. Can’t wait to get my hands on it, it’s been a long wait so really hoping ifs been worth it. I know the L10 is the poor relation to the other 2 but at the price it really should beat everything else on the market when it comes to training functionality.
Hey folks – just in case you didn’t see it, I just posted my first ride impressions on the new Stages units. The full post is over here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Enjoy!
Hi Jim,
I have been reading through allt he Q&A and want to tell you I am impressed with all of your answers and how much you are promoting the product. I have a couple of questions as you might imagine:
1) Is there a firm timeline on the Garmin varia incorporation?
2) When using a free version of stages link is there a way to create a workout that involves more than a set of the same type of intervals? All I can see is the ability to create a singular interval set with as many reps as needed – but what about different intervals in the same session? Did I miss something (I admit to just talking a quick look at the link site)?
Thanks in advance,
Nick
Unit looks very interesting. Looking forward to updates, comments and an in-depth review.
Still haven’t been able to register my L10 as my serial number isn’t recognised or connect it to my phone. Apparently they haven’t had time to activate all the serial numbers. It’s going back to Sigma Sports tomorrow if it’s not sorted. Guessing us that can’t afford the flagship models arent a priority for Stages.
Hey David,
If you drop a line to CS with your email that you use for Link, I will validate your premium immediately.
I also think we can walk through the pairing issues to see if we can sort that out. Let us know, we can get you up on premium tonight. I am so sorry that the first take was not a good one.
Thanks Jim, just done that. I’d used my other email address before to contact them (The ticket number was 136718). I even mentioned you in my last message to them but not heard anything since then. Been waiting on and excited about this nearly a year mate so to have it arrive at last and have problems was a bit disheartening.
Hi,
I orderd the L50 at my local bike shop (in Belgium), I hope it won’t be any later then around the 12th of july as they say on the stages shop page. Bin waiting a long time on this device :-)
I got a few questions/suggestions about the new Dash.
* Is there a Ghost mode? I think alot off ppl have a certain trail that they do alot, and a ghost mode feature would be nice. Just a datafield that says perhaps in colours red&green when you are behind/infront of your precious best and by howmuch?
* Does the stages have a little icon on like the km/h, hartrate, ect data fields to see if you are above/below your ride average. Ive bin using wahoo elemnt last couple of years, and I like it in the way that you can see with out having another datafield if you are above or below the average. just a little arrow that points up or down.
* 80% of my workouts are programmed rides. I also ride alot with headphones. I tested the Garmin 830, gave it back after 4 rides, but thats another story. But it had a feater called crashalert, (wich bugged like hell, I was standing still at a crossroad and suddenly it went off…), what was interesting is that it gave the alert also in your headphones trough the connection with the cellphone. This made me thinking. Is it possible when you are doing sprintinterval, blocktraining,… that you can here sound alerts when you are in the last 5 seconds of your block trought your earphones. A example, you are doing blocks and you are in your last 10sec of your recovery, it will give a beep at 10 and then beep beep beep from 5 down to zero. More brands can do it, but not trough the headphones, wich should be possible if your app is active on your phone while riding.
* Again for workout mode. Wich I think the stages is heads up the best device on the market for personalising the screen.
Is it possible when you are doing intervals and for some reason you blew/failed a certain interval/block, can you from the device go back and restart that specific block. (again this comes from the wahoo, but its very usefull, and sometimes can save your whole workout)
* and last one :-)
When you are in the map section and you loaded a route. is there a way to see info on the route? Like howmuch further to go? sometimes its handy like when there are rerouting due to works on the road and you have to take a detour or shortcut. You get back on the trail, and then you can, I don’t know, press a button that gives info on your current possition and says like 65.8 km to go. Something like that.
Thx in advance
and really hope its not gonna be as buggy as the 830 was :-(
(sorry for any typo’s :-) )
I may be late here, but I wanted to ask Ray why the in-depth review of the Stages computers has yet to be completed? Is there something inherently wrong with the system?
I really want to purchase one, but there’s not much out there in terms of usability which is worrisome. In fact, there’s limited information on Stages actual website. I’d like to see this thing working, somehow. :) With no Rainmaker review at this point, the ‘prognosis’ for their computers seems grim. :(
I don’t know about inherently wrong but my L10 was rubbish. I sent it back and got a Wahoo, miles better in every way.
Thanks so much for the reply. I think it’s really interesting how it seems they totally failed on this launch. They seem like quite a large company. For them to think people would switch over to the Stages Link for all training needs was a mistake, especially for a premium fee.
Not fully supporting the other platforms out of the box was a serious miscalculation. I think manually adding all of my workouts from TP would become a pain in the long run.
Just been playing with my dash L50 to replace my garmin that keeps turning off randomly, and the garmin 530 i bought to replace that which continually just froze – very handy in races.
The L50 seemed to be the business, the screen set up and field options are amazing. But….
> Getting it in the mount is a feat of enormous strength. Far beyond what my wife can do, i can barely manage it and im not that weak…
> It doesnt display power from my mtb cinch power meter, although it records it. It displays power from quarqs fine.
> It can’t work out average speed properly. For mtb rides i set to continuous recording, so there is no auto pause. Last ride (i sent screenshots and files to stages), i had ridden 17.3km in one hour (garmin running in tandem measured same distance). Garmin said i had an avg speed of 17.3kmh, stages said i had an avg speed of 15.9kmh, whilst simultaneously also telling me on same screen i had ridden 17.3kmh in a time of one hour. What the. Stages have no answer. Have tried on multiple rides, i rely on avg speed to pace laps on race bike with doesn’t have power meter yet – combined with it being practically impossible to get into mount without using a hammer and stages support unable to answer the avg speed situation – sadly returning.
Just for fun, in the interim i had also bought a leomo type S. App crashed first ride, and unbelievably it doesn’t have auto pause – so for road rides your avg power, NP, avg speed etc all just drop whilst sitting at traffic lights. So thats going back. Also, it can’t measure distance, it measures way low vs both existing garmin, wifes garmin, and my back up lezyne mini.
im jinxed. Current garmin randomly turns off. Edge 530 replacement kept freezing needing hard reset so sent back. Stages L50 just had to be sent back. Leomo type S just had to be sent back. I just need a bike computer that works and does the basics!
I can’t seem to find this information anywhere.
Is the L10 ant+ FE-C compatible? i.e. can it control a smart trainer?
Hey Hank,
The L10 does not have FE-C. We are working on this feature now for M50 and L50 to accompany the launch of our StagesBike. Should be out soon.
Hope that helps!
I’m excited to receive my Stages Bike hopefully late next week, and recently purchased a L50 to accompany. Looking forward to seeing the integration of the two products.
Quick question: Is di2 supported yet? And, is there any way to set Varia Radar to beep when a vehicle first pops up? Can’t seem to find it in the settings.
Thanks!
I’m a cycling coach and want to recommend the Dish L/M50 for the power training of my athletes. However, after the test (I really bought a new L50), I discover the Dish don’t record the channel of Effectiveness and Smoothness. It make me so disappointed, even the low level computer of other brand can record such channel , it is nonsense to buy a Dash if you use more money to buy a L/R Power Meter (i.e. Stages L/R, Infocrank, 2inpower…etc) for better performance (for example: pedalling analiysis). Dash can show such data in ride but don’t record, it is really ridiculous. If no new firmware to rectify such mistake, Dash will lost many serious elite athlete users.