Sometimes, I do sports that are actually not swim-bike-run. Be it skiing, or…ok, I guess that’s it. Actually, I scuba dive, which I suppose is still technically swimming. Or swimming done rather poorly. So poorly that you’re never-endingly sinking to the bottom of the oceans.
In any case, like any other person, I do a wide assortment of things that I find interesting. One of those things that’s long been on my list is going diving at Nemo 33. It’s an indoor dive facility that’s 33 meters (108ft) deep in Brussels (Belgium). It’s basically like someone filled up a cold-war era missile silo with water. I had actually long planned to do waterproofing tests there for various watches, but ultimately I just bought a waterproofing test chamber instead. It could go deeper than Nemo 33 could, and without the 3-hour drive each way.
And yesterday, I finally had an excuse to go there! See, Garmin decided to take their Fenix 5X GPS watch and turn it into a dive watch, albeit, with some hardware and software tweaks that I’ll get into.
But, in case you don’t have the time for all this text, I give you this relatively short video – which is mostly just an excuse for me to buy the GoPro dive case for my Hero6 Black, and then a further excuse to shoot video in a cool place. Also, I talk about a pretty interesting piece of sports gadgetry:
And obviously – if dive watches (or underwater videos) aren’t your thing, fear not, we’ve got more running watches coming in tomorrow (which I haven’t even discussed anywhere). And then more yet the next day; partly why I was so quiet last week. So hang tight!
The Tech Details:
The first thing to know about the Descent MK1 is that’s it’s a Fenix 5X. Except, it’s not. See, it’s complicated.
Yes, the underlying software starts off as a Fenix 5X, as does the hardware, but there’s some core differences. However, since I realize that many visiting this page don’t know anything about the Fenix series at all, let’s take a brief step back and talk about the core ‘things’ the outdoor-focused Fenix 5 does (since virtually all of these are unheard of in a dive watch):
– GPS with GLONASS enabled for other sports (cycling, running, gym, etc…)
– Smartwatch with smartphone notifications (I.e. Twitter, Facebook, etc…), calendar notices, phone and text notifications
– Connects to ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart accessories, can control Garmin action cams
– Downloads data automatically to your phone via Bluetooth Smart, as well as via WiFi & USB
– Optical heart rate (HR) sensor on back of unit
– Full color maps for navigation, with points of interest (depends on region though)
– App store: Connect IQ apps for watch faces, data fields and widgets
– Battery life of: 40 hours diving, 20 hours GPS, and 10 days in smartwatch
Now that the basics are out of the way, how’s it different than the Fenix 5X? Let’s start with the hardware side:
– Depth Gauge added: To measure depth, obviously.
– Waterproofing standard differs: It’s waterproof to 100m, but in this case they’re specifically following EN 13319
– Added DLC bezel coating: The Fenix 5X doesn’t have this, and it hardens against scratches. On higher end model Titanium model.
– Charging port changed: In order to get the dive-focused 100m rating, they switched back to the Fenix 3 charging port
– Additional super-long strap included: It’ll fit around dry suits, or perhaps a very bulky wetsuit
The biggest change up above aside from the depth gauge is the adherence to EN13319. That’s more than just bringing it to 100m, but actually doing overpressure testing at the 100m depth, as well as things like protection against banging the screen and body against rocks and hard surfaces while at that depth. The obvious goal being that if you are cave diving it should be able to withstand a few whacks to the head.
Then there’s some software focused changes:
– Dive modes added: To record dives, obviously. More on this in a second.
– No Fly Watch Face: To tell you when it’s safe to fly
– HR Recording Works Underwater: Yup, they found that given diving is less about strokes, it records quite well
– No Connect IQ Apps allowed in Dive Mode: Simply for safety reasons. Apps allowed in all other modes.
– Different software development QC process for the dive aspects of the unit
Of course, that first line item is a pretty big one (dive modes), so let’s break down what that actually means. Within the Descent MK1 you’ve got six core diving modes/features, they are:
– Single Gas
– Multi-Gas
– Gauge
– Apnea
– Apnea Hunt
– Plan Dive
Most of these are fairly self-explanatory. With ‘Gauge’ mode, that’s your standard no-gas dive. And Apnea being the more official term for freediving, with Apnea hunt aimed at spear fishing. Each of these modes has different settings, but I’ll walk through a typical ‘gauge’ dive in my test dive down below. From a gas perspective, the unit supports five different gases plus air, including nitrox and trimix.
Before that though, you’ve got the ability to ‘Plan Dive’ dive, which is effectively a quick dive calculator. It doesn’t appear to tie into any of the underlying dive modes themselves, but rather is used as a quick planner instead.
In ‘Plan Dive’, you’ve got the ability to Compute NDL or create a Decompression Plan. For example, in Compute NDL you’d start by setting your oxygen percentage (21% default), and then you’d enter in your dive max depth or dive duration:
If I enter in my dive depth, it’ll give me my NDL back in time (which is the duration I can spend at that depth), as well as the MOD.
Note that you can add repeat dives here as well. Meanwhile, with the ‘Deco Plans’ option, you can get far more complex and create plans based on different gases and customizing the percentage of those gases. Also, for non-gauge dives you can specify conservatism settings as well as specify gradient factors. And for the algorithm on decompression plans, they’re using Bühlmann ZHL-16c.
Now – one thing to note is that while there are systems for wireless air gauge integration, there’s nothing of the sort today in the MK1. In talking with Garmin about this, they say it’s definitely something they’re looking at down the road, but won’t likely be a MK1 product feature. Part of that is essentially deciding which horse (standard/company) to bet on. Some of the offerings are still pretty new, and figuring out what makes the most sense isn’t something in the cards for this product cycle.
Got all that? Good, time for a simple test dive.
Real-World Test Dive:
Since I don’t exactly live in a diving mecca (central Paris), my best bet for a fun test dive that was easily doable in a day trip was driving three hours to Brussels, Belgium. It’s here that the NEMO33 facility is located. At 25EUR for the dive, it’s not too bad (apparently it’s a boatload cheaper if you get a pass). Plus, it includes 100% of the equipment you’d need, save a swimsuit (nude diving didn’t appear to be welcomed). So after handing over my credit card we headed to the pool deck:
It’s here that we got a super quick safety chat. More of a logistics chat than safety really. You’re expected to be certified, which I am, so it’s just a case of knowing where to get all your parts and you’re on you’re way. First up though on their well-structured plan is 10 minutes to do any free-diving you’d like. So I started there playing around with the watch (beyond what I had done in my underwater test chamber):
Essentially in this mode it’ll track your depth and time, as well as still provide any alerts you’d have configured. These could be for areas such as time or depth.
Soon though, we were gearing up and getting back in the water for the main dive. It’s at this point that I selected ‘Gauge’ from the dive menu. The first thing it’ll do now is to actually look for GPS satellites. See, it’ll mark your starting point on the map with that. Of course, GPS doesn’t work underwater, so it’s merely going to be start and stop points.
In the case of indoors, I brought it as close to the window as I could, though I wasn’t as lucky as I was for the free-dive I did, so I had no luck getting GPS signal. Obviously, on a boat on openwater that’s not an issue. Oh, in case you’re wondering about those bikes…they do water spin classes. Also, you could do swim laps here, but it’d be miserably hot for any sort of legit workout, since the water temp is 32°C (90°F).
It’s at this juncture you can change your water-type as well as configure alerts. In standard gauge mode those would just be depth and time alerts.
And, you can select to use wrist HR (optical HR) or a chest strap. With a chest strap you won’t get real-time readings until you download afterwards (since neither ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart can pass through water). Whereas with the wrist sensor you will get optical HR readings live the entire dive. Of course, the optical HR sensor won’t work through a wetsuit or dry suit.
Note for those that are curious, the reason this (underwater HR) works here and not on the Fenix 5/FR935 is that Garmin found the HR is working fairly reliably in scuba/apnea because you’re not stroking against the surface of the water as with swimming. It’s the whacking of the water (and the water/air bubbles going in and out every .75 seconds) that causes optical HR issues. Those issues don’t generally exist in diving.
With all that setup and GPS found, you’ll press the upper right button to start. And then…nothing will happen.
See, nothing will happen until the depth gauge activates, which won’t occur until you’re about 1ft underwater. At that point the activity automatically starts recording and the GPS is disabled. In fact, much of the watch now goes into a very locked down software mode that doesn’t allow anything extra to run. No widgets, nor settings access, nor apps or data fields, or anything. The idea being to lock it down so it’s both more secure, but also so you don’t get yourself into a pickle pressing buttons.
As you start to descend, you’ll get live data from one of the three data pages. Those data pages on a standard gauge dive include:
Page 1: Dive Time, Depth, Water Temp, Ascent/Descent Rate, Max Depth, Average Depth Page 2: Compass Heading, Compass direction (I.e. south), Depth, Water Temp, Dive Time Page 3: Heart Rate, Heart Rate Zone (Color), Time of Day, Water Temp, Depth, Battery Level, Dive Time
Now, if you’re diving with gas you’ll get other information as well including the gas mix, PO2, and N2 loading. In my case this was a non-gas dive, so I didn’t get to toy with those.
Alerts will trigger mid-dive for things you’ve configured. For example, a max depth, or a time duration. Additionally, if you ascend or descend too fast, it’ll trigger alerts there too (vibration + tone). Note that alerts automatically clear from the screen, it was either 3 seconds or 5 seconds – I didn’t mentally time it. But it was quick enough that the first time it occurred it disappeared faster than I could move my camera to take a photo.
Of note is that unlike other Garmin watches, once you’re in a dive – the watch is totally locked down. As I mentioned above things like Connect IQ apps aren’t available. But neither is settings or anything else. The idea being that you don’t accidentally get yourself on some weird screen you can’t figure out how to undo while underwater. Also, at present the dive screens don’t appear to be customizable either. They are what they are.
In unrelated news, you can eat Thai food while watching divers That’s what those windows are there, and behind it is an Asian restaurant. Inversely, you’ll know what it’s like to be a fish inside an aquarium.
Finally, after you surface the unit will reacquire GPS and then mark the exit location. These will show on the maps on Garmin Connect/Garmin Connect Mobile. All that syncs automatically as soon as within range of your phone. Here’s some of what you get online (some data fields aren’t quite showing up fully on the beta app):
You’ll also get HR charts as well as depth and temperature charts.
From a dive log perspective, everything is basically in three places: Watch, your phone, and Garmin Connect (web) automatically. The only downside is that there doesn’t appear to be an easy way to import all your existing dive history (or to recreate dives quickly). Of course, most other dive watches don’t support that either, but still, it’s always a sad-panda moment when any dive/training log shows zero.
Oh – and lastly, on the watch face it’ll show your time remaining till it’s safe to fly (essentially 24 hours since last dive).
Wrap-up:
Now, for those wondering if I’m getting into the dive watch computer realm with in-depth reviews, the answer is simple: Nope, unlikely. First off, I just don’t live in a place that’s terribly conducive to doing that topic justice. It’d be like writing reviews of running GPS watches and only using a treadmill. So until I move to/buy/whatever a tropical island to dive from every day, you’re stuck with me out of breath running the streets of Paris.
But ultimately, I like discussing things that are interesting, even if not the core of what I do day to day. It keeps it interesting to me. And in the of the Garmin Descent MK1, it’s notable because there’s so little competition to this type of device in the marketplace. Obviously, there are tons of dive computers. Both high end and low-end.
The funny thing is though, there are really none that have the feature-set that Garmin arrives with beyond the diving pieces. In the diving world, most dive watches are large and clunky (albeit sometimes for valid reasons), and those that are slimmer tend to be pricey, and even then super minimalist when it comes to being able to be worn on land. All of which Garmin knows. They can arrive with a unit that’s far more connected than any other offering in the market, and at a price that’s actually quite comparable ($999USD for base model) to other high-end dive computers.
Said differently: Garmin isn’t doing anything significantly unique compared to other dive computers in terms of the diving-specific feature set. What they are doing though is doing that though coupled with a complete GPS smartwatch. That’s unique.
Of course, the question is whether the diving market trusts Garmin. Certainly in the sports realm, the overwhelming bulk of runners and cyclists do (as the numbers clearly show), but we also have become accustomed to Garmin’s occasional software snafu’s. If your GPS watch stumbles on a run, it’s one thing. But if it has an error in a highly technical dive – that’s an entirely different situation.
Obviously, as I noted above, Garmin says they’ve done a lot in this area to address the safety concerns. Which are ultimately no different than the ways Garmin addresses them in other safety-critical businesses like aviation and marine. And in the case of those markets, it’s really a case of consumers over time trusting the products they’re using. They noted that while the Descent will largely get the same software/firmware updates the Fenix 5X gets, that due to the extra safety checks, there will probably be a slight lag there to the Descent.
Which ultimately brings us back to the Descent MK1. Garmin will have to prove over time that the unit they’ve made is dependable, no matter how much bottom time beta testing divers have had. And if they do that? They’ll likely take the dive computer market by storm. Especially since it’s almost inevitable they’ll apply the same logic they did in the running and cycling realm: Start with prices comparatively high, and iterate down to offering compelling budget options that blanket the market.
In the meantime, I need to find a tropical island.
With that – thanks for reading!
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The Descent Mk1 is expected to be available in Q4 2017 for a suggested retail price of $999.99 for the stainless-steel and $1,499.99 for the premium version.
True, it’s more expensive than the 5X. Though, if you want a fun journey, go check out the USD costs of Suunto’s watch sized dive computers (sans GPS/etc…). Yikes!
That said, I think Suunto would be extremely well positioned here to essentially do what Garmin’s doing, and they’ve got a far longer backstop of diving brand recognition to go on.
more of a FYI / what I’ve found interesting researching dive computers, algorithms (this lecture nicely explains things re algo direction: link to youtube.com)
DSAT ~=PADI dive tables ~~~= ZHL-16C with a GFhi of ~95%. Here’s a neat table:
short story IMO – Garim have chosen the correct algo!
ScubaLab have a link to their raw NDL data for each of the computer tested (for each year too). Compiling and ranking it produces close results to the info above.
You do have the compass underwater though, so that’s there. Plus of course the ascent meter on the right side will show you if you’re going up or down. From a gyro standpoint, I’m not sure how it would provide additional detail beyond what compass + depth would do. Thoughts?
I think what andrew is saying is that it might be possible to use the internal gyros, combined with the initial GPS fix and depth gauge, to provide an actual underwater track similar to the way an inertial navigation system worked in aircraft and spacecraft before the advent of GPS and currently still used in submarines. It is an interesting idea, but might be too taxing for the CPU and the small, cheap gyros might not be precise enough for that purpose. Might be a feature we see added later on though.
Ahh, gotchya. Now that would be pretty darn cool! Maybe not so much during the dive with today’s tech, but in a logbook fashion afterwards to be able to replay.
I might be able to provide some greater information on the depth accuracy. I’ve been a beta tester for the product. I believe what you’re referencing is the lack of accuracy in altitude within air. I believe most products are using +/- 100 ft as their accuracy threshold. It’s very difficult to judge altitude based on the minute changes in air pressure, especially when it changes with the weather.
Depth underwater is much easier to judge considering 1.) Due to the weight, water pressure increases much faster than air. 2.) Pressure increases quite linearly underwater (1 ATM per 33ft/10m)
I can tell you with confidence that the depth is spot on with other dive computers I’ve tested against.
Identical to 5X in the size department. I’ll weigh it tomorrow to see if any differences there (Cave is without power right now).
As for Garmin Pay, I think the main reason being the re-use of the 5X hardware. While it probably wouldn’t have been a huge jump to stick in the required NFC components, my guess is that it would have changed enough things to push back dates.
So grateful for this! I wasn’t sure if you’d be writing about the Descent so it’s great to hear you scuba dive too. I’m also a triathlete and scuba diver, so looks like this might be the watch for me!
I don’t see the automatic rep counting pieces there yet on the software I have on this unit, but it’s also not slated to start shipping today either.
I’ll confirm with Garmin, but my guess is this is a good example of where the Fenix 5/5S/5X just got those about a month ago via firmware update, and that I suspect the Descent lineup is working off of the slightly delayed feature update schedule to account for locking things down a bit more.
I can live without rep counting, but not having access to actual activities (for whatever reason) is gonna be unacceptable on $999 device. They include Indoor Rowing in Fitness Equipment, but not Strength or Cardio or Elliptical, which is very strange.
Also, there are some running dynamics differences between Fenix 5(X) and Mk1, which also strikes me as odd.
Hopefully, this is due to a watch not being released yet and not another example of Garmin’s creative feature packaging.
Oh, just to be clear, those activities are all there today. On my unit I can see Rowing (indoors and outdoors), as well as Strength, Cardio. Even ‘Boat’. I don’t see Elliptical though.
And Running Dynamics should be all identical. Here’s a run with it and the RD pod from a few days ago: link to connect.garmin.com
“You are my savior! My personal Jesus Christ!” The Matrix 1999
Wew! My Christmas budget has now a $999 hole in it, my wife’s gonna kick me out of the house, but I’m a happiest man alive! The Holy Grail of all things athletic in one convenient location is upon us, brothers and sisters!
great source of info about this watch, have been waiting for something like this :)
if I understand correctly apart from the described differences (physical + added diving features) there are no other differences to 5x, correct? Essentially Descent is an expansion of 5x features as I understand it, right?
Yup – totally correct, beyond what I listed it’s the same as a Fenix 5X. So for a triathlete or sporty person that was looking at a 5X and also dives, this is a pretty logical step up.
I’m really surprised they support trimix in this watch. Did Garmin document what algorithm they use? If it’s not an open algorithm (i.e. Buhlmann), with support for things like setting gradient factors, I don’t see how any technical diver could adopt it.
Thanks for this!! I’ve been WISHING for Garmin to make a dive watch for years, and since my 620 is on its last legs, I was about to upgrade to a 935… I think I’ll go for this one now.
Exactly! I was suffering a lot of ANT+ drops on my Fenix 5 and was seriously considering up-trading to 5X, where the issue is said to be far less pronounced / non-existent. If Mk1 can do everything Fenix 5 can AND handle my diving needs (hell, I finally get proper dive logs and entry/exit points for dive sites!), this will be huge.
As a runner, it didn’t occur to me that Garmin has to deliver much more reliable products for aviation, and clearly they’ve figured out how to do that. It makes one question whey they can’t have some people from that team teach the sports team about quality.
Like any product, it comes down to the resources you spend on testing. Same with Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc… That list of resources includes automated means as well as human means. So everything from developing comprehensive feature test plans as well as having the resources to validate those test plans.
All of which then ties back to timelines and financial resources. So in the case of the Fenix 5/5/5X they can move faster because they don’t test as deeply as on Descent. Likewise, on the Forerunner they can move faster because they don’t test as hard as aviation gear.
Not saying it’s right or wrong, but just the reality of the situation today.
I work in aviation certification engineering and you absolutely do NOT want us getting our hands on anything in the fitness market. Just look at how much more expensive this watch is and how much longer it took to be released than the Fenix 5X. If you had to test that device to FAA standards and document it like all of the aviation products it would probably cost at least 50% more than it does and wouldn’t be released until next year. Then, if you needed to do a software update you could expect about 6 months of documentation and testing before you would be able to install the new software update. There are always trade-offs between reliability, price, and speed of implementation. When things absolutely, positively, must work right the first time, every time, it takes a lot longer to develop and test it. Which then drives up the cost since you have to pay engineers for a lot of hours of work.
If there’s no easy way to import dive history — does that mean that I can’t import files from Suunto Movescount to Garmin Connect? I never could before but I assumed it was because they just didn’t support a detailed dive profile.
A guy on Scubaboard, who says he’s been beta testing Mk1, claims Garmin stores all dive information in regular Fit files, with additional data fields. If that’s the case, perhaps they would let some import means like they currently allow TCX/GPS import from the outside on Garmin Connect web site.
The other way would be to take custom/Subsurface dive logs, generate Fit files, and copy them onto Mk1 via USB? I’m wondering if that hack would force Mk1 to sync historical activities back to Garmin.
Correct, all dive files are .FIT – just like all other workout files.
Right now, the Garmin Connect (non-mobile) side of things isn’t terribly special for dive files. I’ve asked for clarification on how that might change to be a bit more like a dive log book, than a workout site.
But I suspect that if GC is updated to have a dive section, then one could do as you said and probably reasonably easy create an online parser from popular dive log book export formats and re-map fields into something a .FIT file would be happy with.
I’ll be happy if Garmin allows me to manually create an activity that’s more detailed so I can just manually input the data from past dives! Suunto’s DM5 software has been a total nightmare for me, and I’ll be happy to let that go.
The lack of an easy way to import existing dive history to Garmin Connect is a pretty significant downside. There are divers with hundreds, even thousands, of dives already recorded in their electronic dive logs. Not being able to transfer these dives over to GC’s logbook would be a real disincentive.
My question is why would you? Really. As long as you can export your dives to your fav app/logbook, then the ability to upload historic dives to a watch/computer is pointless. Suunto, for example, starts clearing dives after 99 dives.
Douglas, it’s not about exporting historic dive info to the watch/computer/device; it’s about exporting that historic dive info to the platform that this device uses. In this case, that’s Garmin Connect. From Ray’s pictures above, you can see that GC will incorporate a dive log feature to support the Descent MK1. But if the GC dive log can’t easily import historic info from other dive log apps, then that’s a major limitation. Particularly for any diver who already has hundreds (or thousands) of dives logged elsewhere.
Little off topic I noticed you mentioning upcoming reviews on other watches. I’ve been on hold for getting a Fenix 5X because it seems the 6 series will be coming just around the corner. I’m thinking a January announcement your thoughts ? Also you do you think an new Virb Ultra will be out soon?
The F5/S/X was released in March 17 – about 6 months ago. Don’t expect to see a 6 series for another 18 months. There may be a refresh in 2018 to fix Garmin’s #$%^ up with ANT+/BLE sensors on the F5, and perhaps add in NFC, but it will be basically the 5 series refreshed.
Huh, my last post seems to have disappeared into the depths… :-/
I did want to add that it would be far better to be able to export dives to a third party app (I personally use MacDive, there are other options available) vs. trying to import previous dive history into Garmin Connect.
Weird. I don’t see any comments sitting in spam/junk/pending. Sorry, to wherever it sunk!
As for activities, they’re stored in standard .FIT files. Now of course, 3rd parties will have to learn how to consume those since they are unlikely to use the format like the rest of the sports tech industry does. But it’s pretty trivial for 3rd party apps to add.
Interesting your comment at the end there about whether I’d trust a Garmin dive computer. The answer right now? NO WAY. And I love my Garmin Fenix 3 and all other devices I’ve had from them. But I’ve been diving on an Oceanic dive computer of some sort for 20 years now. And never once has it had a hiccup. To be fair, I dive with two computers generally just in case but I want my dive computer to be absolutely dedicated to the task.
With that said, my comment to my wife was “Well, when it’s time for me to replace my Fenix 3 in a few years, they’ll probably have the kinks all worked out” Maybe. But I’ll be talking to the guys over at Scubaboard to see what they think 8) I really like how it saves the data in Garmin Connect but I have recently moved back to a paper log and probably will stick with that for diving.
One thing I don’t see here is if the computer is capable of changing algorithms or how conservative it is by default. I’m sure there’s a lot of settings you don’t get into here but I am interested to see what this does to the market at least.
Also, on a diving & triathlon related note…talk about two sports that are hard to do together. If I dive all day Saturday, there’s no way I can work out the next day. If I’m training for a 140.6 distance event then scuba generally goes on the back burner for a few months.
Interesting, I thought the hurdle to overcome would have been related to water between the sensor and skin. The optical HR works when running and there’s arm movement then.
Water in between can cause issues, but it’s not too bad actually.
The issue is that each time your wrist hits the water, it’s a massive ‘shock’ to the watch, like whacking pavement. So the watch can easily get confused in the same way it does running with running cadence sometimes. Further, when you bring your hand out of the water, liquid drains out between the watch and then fills again, often with bubbles of air in there. It’s kinda a mess.
That said, various watches have implemented it to varying degrees of success in swimming. I’d be surprised if we don’t see Garmin eventually get there, either through firmware/software updates, or hardware tweaks.
From what I’ve read about optical heart rate sensors and have seen in strength training, the limiting factor has less to do with sweat/water and irregularity of movement and flexing of hand muscles restricting blood flow. So, it works relatively well for walking and running where hands move in predictable patterns aligned with shocks from steps. This wouldn’t work as well in the water… Not that it totally doesn’t work. I’m just no sold on accuracy.
Thanks for the glimpse into Garmin’s foray to Dive Computers. As an amateur, aged triathlete, I latched on to Garmin products and really like them. For Scuba, I use a Vyper Air with a wireless transmitter. As an endurance athlete, I was wondering if there is a way to capture heart rate while scuba diving… and you (and Garmin) have now answered the question.
How was the viewablility of the Descent MK1 through the mask? What kind of backlight does it have?
As always, love your reviews. Keep up the good work. And, if you ever want to dive in the great lakes. Let me know.
No issues with visibility of the screen. Though, keep in mind the water was about as clear as you’d ever get, and I also have pretty good eyesight.
That said, it was a million times easier to see than the beat-up dive-computer the place had (which isn’t a fair comparison, but a comparison nonetheless).
The backlight is pretty bright – same as the Fenix 5. It’s actually interesting that in the photos it appears a bit red at depth, but in reality that’s just funky camera games.
The backlight is adjustable. As a beta tester, I have found having it set at 20-30% to auto start at depth works very well and does not overly tax the battery. Both in lake and ocean.
And no external dive sensors today. It’s something they are looking at, but are trying to decide which devices/standards to support. Part of the challenge they see is basically figuring out which horse to bet on when it comes to external sensors.
Ray, Does the Garmin MK1 require some wireless sensor for the air tank gauges at all? Does it even tell you remaining air? I have an Atmos dive computer that physically hooks to my tank via hose and it tells me everything the Garmin does, including air pressures (which would make the Garmin a good sanity check while validating it for dive use).
I guess in other words, does it need anything additional if I wanted to make this my only dive computer and handle all my essential dive data…
No connectivity at all (in any manner). That’d likely tech different hardware, as the current chipset is just for ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart support, and neither can go more than 2-3cm underwater. This was the singular area the Garmin Dive Product Group noted that it wasn’t likely to be within the MK1 product.
You can choose three conservatism settings: High, Medium, Low. Alternatively, you can specify a custom value (i.e. 35/75). You’ll first specify the low gradient factor in the menu, and then the high factor.
Very cool that it can do more than diving. Most dive watches are still so far behind in terms of connectivity, even interface, etc. And this one does those well and so much more beyond diving. Very cool.
“It’s at this juncture you can change your water-type as well as configure alerts. In standard gauge mode those would just be depth and time alerts. You can also change the water type.”
Water type mentioned twice?
“See, nothing will happen until the depth gauge activates, which won’t occur until you’re about 1ft underwater. At that point the activity automatically stops recording and the GPS is disabled.”
do you mean that it starts recording?
Very interesting read, even for someone who have never been diving.
Great “hands-on”!! With this unit capturing HR under water, do you expect Garmin to turn on HR on the 935 or other running/triathlon watches (which I don’t believe capture swimming HR right now)?
Do you know if there will ever be a way to get the diving ‘app’ on a regular fenix? Already having a 5, it seems the watch could handle nearly everything minus the extremes of depth, total lock down, good water proofing depth, HR can work underwater, just need the depth calculator (via barometric pressure?) and the math for NDL etc.
I’ve seen a pretty good connect IQ app, but full functionality (more than 1 dive…) is like $30, and Garmin now proves they can do it for free.
I doubt they’ll do it. More out of safety concern than anything else with folks then turning around and using something for diving and it going wrong when it wasn’t really designed for diving. Just my guess.
Used to be a dive app on connect iq on Garmin site but it’s gone now and when I tried to use it m f3hr says “version expired.” The web shows an app you can download here, http://www.diveiq.com. Obviously, the safety protocols won’t be there as they are in this watch Ray has shown.
Interesting article on how Garmin has handled connect iq dive apps. Apparently, everything from Fenix 3hr forward has been capable of dive apps but Garmin took them down. Why not, when you’ve been preparing a $1,000 diving watch for two years? A free app would really hurt. link to appelmoessite.wordpress.com
The whole dive CIQ app thing has long been discussed at Garmin. There were discussions years ago about whether to allow them at all. Seems like they were allowed for a short time, and then pulled, etc…
All of it around liability concerns from every conversation I’ve gathered (since these stretched like 3 years back).
I think it has little to do with a free app and a lot to do with legal and compliance. Keeping an uncertified diving app in store would open Garmin, should something go wrong, to all sorts of litigation. Also, the app in Fenix 3HR used a barometric pressure sensor to figure out depth — I still remember the discussion the author of the app had about it on Garmin forums. A careful look at Mk1 spec shows a dedicated depth sensor, which presumably is far less failure proof and far more accurate, especially at greater depths.
I really just thought I would throw that out there for fun. I certainly wouldn’t trust my 3hr with a diving app. But, it might make a fun backup. Years ago, Swatch made a watch model that had an anolog depth guage with dive time. Basically, a dive timer and gauge. It stated all over it that it was not safe/approved for diving but that’s exactly what it was designed for. I used it as a backup only until it crapped out. I think the challenge for Garmin here, is why, would I give up my trusty Oceanic wrist dive computer that I only paid a couple hundred dollars for. They’re simply bombproof, tested, and trusted. Plus, I kinda like that fact that it’s a big chunky thing with a screen twice as big as my 3hr or the 5. I can see the darn thing at depth in low light. Anyway, wish Garmin would at least let us have a dive timer app as a backup. What’s the harm?
“Charging port changed: In order to get the dive-focused 100m rating, they switched back to the Fenix 3 charging port”
I assumed that due to new charging port, the Descent cradle isn’t compatible with F5X ??
Some things do. For example, if I do a gauge dive (as I did yesterday), I can’t use any of the gas dive options for 24 hours after starting my gauge dive.
But flying, well, there’s no way the unit can keep you from boarding a plane. ;)
Instead, it just shows you a small airplane icon with an ‘x’ over it, and the time remaining, which is shown on the stock dive watch face.
Hi, I love the review. I noticed that the dive profile is really straight. Did you really dive this way?
It was not clear to me, but does it count the ndl based on your preset plan or does it use actual depth and gas info? Also, as a side note, ndl is not an acronym I am used to.
NDL (an Acronym for No-Decompression Limit) is your allowable bottom time. It is based on Nitrogen loading. Since the Descent is not Air integrated gas info is not relevant. You will need another computer and/or gauge to monitor current air levels.
Um, or a simple pressure gauge. Sheesh, when I learned to dive in ’76 the industry was still getting rid of J valves — that’s where you pulled a lever to get a little more out of your tank. It’d start breathing hard, and you knew it was time to boogie to the surface.
As for the dive profile, no, it just does the super simplified view on that page.
On the last tab, it’ll show the true dive profile using the depth gauge, but at present on the current beta GCM builds, it’s not enumerating for me for some reason.
Not sure you answered the question as asked, which if I’m interpreting it correctly was “hey, does this thing tell you how long you have based on your dive plan, i.e., is it just running the old Navy dive tables for you, or does it take into account your actual dive?
It’s the latter. I believe the NDL time displayed is based on a calculation of how much nitrogen you’ll have in your bloodstream when you surface. In other words, there’s a mathematical model that’s always running based on your dive profile. Assuming you head to the surface at 1ft/sec (1m per 3 seconds), the NDL time is the maximum time you can stay at your current depth and still have a controlled ascent to the surface with no deco stops. My first dive computer (an Orca Edge) was the size and weight of a gold brick, but had a really cool display that would show you the nitrogen saturation of different tissue types on an histogram. You could see the model work… I haven’t seen this since, and absolutely loved it.
Anyway, training these models is why you tell the watch what kind of gas you’re breathing (it changes the coefficients for absorption). And this is why you can tweak the acceptable saturation levels of the model, thus building in a safety margin in case you have more scar tissue or fat or paranoia than the next person.
FWIW with the Suunto I usually set it to a very conservative model, and then take a deco stop at 10ft/3m for a few minutes regardless. Besides building in a safety margin, I find I feel a bit better afterwards (sinuses and all that). YMMV. IANAD. (I am not a doctor!)
Perhaps because you never got deep enough, but the most important thing they display while diving is the time left at the current depth before you have to take a decompression stop. This is the one number I pay attention to other than air left in the tank. Oh, and when I have to get back to the surface to not miss lunch…
Image is from Garmin’s descent page.
Thanks, Richard
p.s. Nit: “Heart Rate Zeon” (in the section where you detail what’s on the dive mode display, and if I read correctly, were you omit the no-decon time field).
So, if the Descent MK1 is capable of reading HR underwater, and the Descent is a F5X, can also de F5X read the HR underwater?
I never tried so long, but in short test, it never read my HR in a pool.
YMMV, however I found that I was eventually able to adjust the watch to allow for good heart rate monitoring.
Two things to be aware of:
1.) Constrictive wet suits, or overly tight dry suit seals may interfere with wrist based monitoring
2.) I found you need to be careful to get just the right band tension. Anything too tight or loose lead to incorrect readings. Once you find that sweet spot it appears accurate.
I am a trained technical diver, have two suunto computers.
Use Garmin for cycling, running, and day-to-day tracking.
Would I use a Garmin dive computer? Not a chance.
Fascinating. I have a 935 and a Suunto D6i and have always fancied a watch that would combine the best of both worlds and this new offering by Garmin is intriguing. That said, time will be the ultimate test to make sure that there are no software hiccups or quirks similar to what we all have experienced when running or cycling with our Garmin products. U absolutely have to be able to rely on non-decompression limits when you are diving. Suunto is the master of the space and also have the more conservative algorithms re NDL on their computers and watches.
Not sure if I missed it in the review but is there a nitrox setting which allows you to change the oxygen blend?
As to reliability, I really like the idea of Garmin shutting down all the frippery when in dive mode. I’m guessing it won’t take very many test dives to get tons of “final beta testing” (courtesy of the early adopters). I’m likely to be one of those, and also taking into account the extreme volume Garmin will enjoy of this watch means that it will be incredibly well tested in some insane scenarios. In other words, this is quickly likely to be the most reliable dive instrument you can buy.
Ray: if you beach dive (remember those?) will it show you your snorkeling time/path/whatever? I’d expect most shore dives to have 10-20 minutes of snorkeling, 30+ minutes of submersion, and then another 10-20 minutes of snorkeling back to the beach. What would that look like?
I don’t believe it would show the snorkeling path, because the GPS shuts off as soon as you hit the water (it might actually technically shut off once you press to initiative the dive before it hits the water but after it’s acquired signal).
And then it won’t regain GPS until you’ve exited water (depth = 0). But I don’t think if you re-dive it’ll find again. There’s a delay you can set, but I couldn’t come up with an easy way to test that at either NEMO33 (due to their structure constraints), or in the dive chamber (since it takes a bit of time to unseal it and get outside). Perhaps RJANUARY or one of the other beta testers here can comment on that in a legit openwater setting (else, starting January I’ve got months of openwater swims in warm water).
I’d love to see you do something with the Garmin D2 series. You do seem to have an interest in aviation as well, right? It would be a perfect excuse to rent an airplane!
I run and bike, and dive (tec to 50 meters). I use a Shearwater Perdix AI for diving, which does trimix, and all that. Shearwater has great respect within the tec diving community, and since I am old enough to need bifocals and also since I dive in some low vis environments at times I love the big bright Shearwater screen. So while I love my Garmin watch, I don’t think I’d ever get their dive computer.
But, pertaining to this post, the Shearwater Perdix AI uses Oceanic air pressure transmitters, and I’ve found my transmitter to be very reliable. Presumably Garmin could choose to support this type of transmitter, though I don’t know what radio protocol it uses.
I was thinking exactly the same thing.
Though I think I’d take the opportunity to have redundancy in my dive watches; currently I use a D9 + D3 as redundancy and a 3HR for other sports.
I like the idea or HR when diving and free diving in particular and correlating with SAC through my air Transmitter would be great.
I use the excellent Div Log app on my Mac and iPhone as my digital log and I’ve emailed them to ask if they would consider support for the Descend MK1 and correlating two data sources.
I think you will get tides with the (paid) garmin bluechart maps on the descent and/or if garmin will make the “tides” App from the iq store compatible for the descent…
This is interesting. I’ve spoken to Suunto about a diving (freediving/spearfishing to specify) function a few month ago and they have taken it on board as a feature request. Unfortunately, I haven’t heard back from them since.
Any chance Garmin will add the apnea mode to regular Fenix5 models? I have a separate computer for scuba diving, but would love the apnea mode for free diving!
This was the most exciting part of the article for me: “we’ve got more running watches coming in tomorrow (which I haven’t even discussed anywhere). And then more yet the next day” Forerunner 245??
For those that have been e-mailing asking, you can indeed now pre-order the Descent MK1 via Clever Training. As always, doing so via Clever Training helps support the site. Plus, if you use the DCR/CT VIP program you’ll get 10% back in points that you can use immediately, along with free US shipping. Further, it’ll basically make you awesome.
Like others, I’ll give Garmin chance to prove themselves here, but I’m not ready to trust them yet. Yes, they have experience in critical environments like aviation and maritime, but that doesn’t mean that experience is being shared with the fitness product teams who I’d guess are behind this.
For me the great thing about this is to see how it drives the other players in the “every day wearable” dive computer segment, where the current devices are on par with digital watches from the 1980s in terms of the “in your face” side of the technology. I think this has become accepted over the years as people want something tried and trusted, not gimmicky, but I do think this has led to stagnation as the likes of Suunto have been happy to sit back. If Garmin get this right, then it’s going to drive development as a whole. We’re never going to see (nor would I want) new models every year and updates with new features every few months, and some people don’t want anything more than what’s already available, but things like GPS, colour displays, customisable screens, additional non-diving functionality etc are long overdue for some of us.
I alluded to this above, but in addition to the concern about Garmin’s reliability in this arena, I think this kinda falls under the Fenix Chronos area. Just how many $1,000 and $1,500 watches are they going to sell? My opinion is that nothing much has happened in the dive technology world for awhile that would require an occasional recreational diver to need something more than a $300 computer. YMMV I still dive a Conshelf 14 that came out, when, in the ’70s? But, you can still buy them new. Found one new in the box on ebay two years ago for cheap! In fact, you can buy a tried and trusted Suunto Zoop for $215 right now. Diver’s Direct has at least 5 computers under $300 and Leisure Pro about 9, some with guages, etc. But, the tech on running/biking GPS watches is changing so rapidly that my Fenix 3hr that I’ve had just over a year seems antiquated. I also like the fact that my dive computer stays in my dive bag with an extra battery at all times and I don’t have to worry about it being charged (something I think has not really been commented on here to the extent it needs to be, how many of us have had to hook up our Fenix for 15 min. to charge before that long ride). Additionally, I think I will deal with it alot better on vacation when I drop my now very used $300 dive computer in the drink versus a $1,500 Garmin, never to be seen again. Just my two cents, but I agree the coolness factor of everything in one place is alluring, maybe not practical.
1) No, not unless you press start on the activity after selecting a dive. It’s just that the dive won’t actually start until it detects depth undewater.
Ray,
Are Garmin planning in releasing a new HRM band to support this?
The swim band is rated to static 5ATM which although would theoretically cover rec diving to 40m it is shy of the 11ATM the watch is rated to and 5ATM is static so I wouldn’t want to go to 40m with one even if it was under my wetsuit and so not subjected to the dynamic forces something like a watch would be (though I think compression folds in the neoprene as you move could feasibly add and ATM or so).
Good question, I’ll ask. I suspect probably not, only because I suspect there’s probably a limited number of people going beyond 40m and not being in a drysuit (who’d buy this watch).
I wonder if the tech would be that simple; At the very least you’d need a secondary reciever;
Suunto is a 5kHz Low Frequency to work through water Vs something like Bluetooth and ANT+ which are both around 2.4GHz.
I was looking for a replacement for my Citizen Aqualand Duplex (battery went dead) and a back-up to my regular dive computer (the old backup crapped out). Plus, when I go offshore, I like adding the exact location where we dive to my logbook. Something more than “deep stepped reef, 8 miles offshore”. I usually drag my phone out and note the spot with it’s GPS.
Now, I can do it all. I’m pretty interested. Being old, I need to see a live display to test legibility, and I need to see how difficult it is to program and to set the mix.
As the owner of a dependable Vivoactive and and old Garmin 800 for cycling, I trust the brand.
In todays market a dive computer without air integration will not get anywhere. I was very exited to read the specs (i currently got suunto DX a garmin 735xt) until the very last line : air integration : no. No thx
Without wireless tank integration, the price point is obscene. You can buy a better dive computer for 1/5 of the price that does at least as much, and usually even more. As much as I love my Fenix3HR, I’ll stick to using it with IQ dive software until they add air integration AND bring the price into line.
Thanks for the report, Ray. I find this very interesting. As a runner and also a diver on the NY Aquarium dive team, a device I could use for both is pretty tempting. Also, if it really registers your dive at 1′ instead of the more common 5′, that would be very appealing, since I’m often working near the surface and my dive profile shows all that as having surfaced, sometimes splitting one dive into two if I’m there too long. Once they have AI (hopefully working with the same transmitters Oceanic and Shearwater are using) I’ll consider it.
Another great review, have bought several running watches based on your reviews but am also a diver and was annoyed at the lack of connectivity of dive computers so this could well be the answer – especially if I can use it for the other sports which I do.
Thanks for the great review. Was thinking of upgrading my F3HR to the F5X and also planning on learning to scuba this summer so this is perfect!!
I do have a question though, and it’s more about cosmetics than function. Currently my F3HR only leaves my wrist to charge. I am never without it (charges overnight). I do a lot of extreme activities as well as yard work and the like and since the F3HR has the Sapphire lens….only the band and top of the bezel really get a beat up look.
With the Decent, one bezel is SS ($999) and one is Titanium ($1.4k). Is the Titanium really worth the $500? I don’t care about the strap. I’ll cjange it anyways but if the Titanium will survive longer….. might be worth it to me as again…. it never leaves my wrist….oh…. and I am a corporate executive who has to keep up appearances….. thoughts?
Seamus- I have been beta testing this amd am pretty hard on watches as a paramedic. I noted that the stainless case collected a few scratches, but not super noticeable. I haven’t had any that ive noted yet on the titanium version. The quick changing of the bands is super nice and helps go from casual to dressy quickly! Hope that helps!
Thanks Heather. My F3HR has the SS bezel and not sure if it’s because of the darker color or what but it shows a lot of scratches (IMO). Maybe the Titanium then…. just wish I could go without the Titanium band. Probably knock some $$ off.
Here’s my F3HR…..
Seamus- I have been beta testing this amd am pretty hard on watches as a paramedic. I noted that the stainless case collected a few scratches, but not super noticeable. I haven’t had any that ive noted yet on the titanium version. The quick changing of the bands is super nice and helps go from casual to dressy quickly! Hope that helps!
Is there any news on the release date? We are a month from the announcement date and garmin website still says 5-8 weeks, would think they want to get this on the shelves for holiday shopping.
Will this watch also support multisport/triathlon profiles? It supports swimming, cycling and running sp It would be perfect is there is also a tri-mode..
Hi Ray,
Really appreciated the review here and the one you did on the Garmin Virb 360.
I’m a bit confused as to whether the ANT+ will operate while diving. ie. Sending the data to the Virb 360
for inclusion in the overlays? Also, could you let me know what data can be / will be transmitted?
It won’t transmit any data live to the VIRB 360. It can retransmit HR to it, but realistically it won’t capture that since the HR would only got about an inch underwater.
The good news though is that you can just merge the files easily afterwards in Garmin VIRB Edit (free app) to pull in your Descent file.
The one thing I don’t know though is if it properly handles the dive depths in the VIRB Edit suite. If it doesn’t initially, my guess is it won’t take long for it to.
Just checked with them (all in the timeframe from your comment till now). They are still on track to ship units to retailers/dealers in limited quantities here in December.
Typically Garmin.com fulfills orders last, after retailers/dealers, and that’s going to be the case here as well too – which is the stated January timeframe.
Thanks, one of NZ shops will have it soon, so now the question is – should I buy it? I have Fenix 3 and I want to upgrade (for nav + run power meter mostly), and I do dive and have no diving computer. Seems like a logical choice.
Hi! I came across the following information in another website and I think it might be misleading.
As I understood the mk1 can do absolutely eveything the 5X does but then I come across this article. Maybe the betta version of thr watch doesn’t do it? Or maybe it can be added buy downloading new software?
I appreciate the mk1 owners to check this one for me since I think that strength training is important for me.
Here the article of the missing features:
FENIX 5X VS DESCENT MK1
You mentioned that Descent doesn’t have quite the same amount of fitness/training features as the Fenix 5 tell me more! The following might sound like a lot but considering the number of diving features gained and the plethora of fitness features still available it doesn’t make an impact on how powerful this watch is. I’ve listed the specs below for a full breakdown of all features available.
The Descent Mk1 won’t come preloaded with profiles for Strength, training and cardio training. It also does not come with Cardio workouts, strength workouts or the automatic rep counting feature.
In regards to training and planning/analysis features the Descent won’t come with auto multisport activities or manual multisport activities.
For running features, the Descent Mk1 has almost all the same except Vertical oscillation and ratio (the degree of ‘bounce’ in your running motion and the cost-benefit ration with stride length). Ground contact time and balance (shows how much time, in the running motion, your foot is on the ground rather than in flight and lets you check your running symmetry) and Stride length. *All of these require the compatible accessory from Garmin.
Additionally, the Descent Mk1 does not feature the FTP (Functional Threshold Power) feature that is available with the fenix 5X for cycling.
As noted somewhere above, the strength piece were only very recently added in a firmware update to the Fenix 5X units, and as such haven’t yet been added to the MK1, though it sounds like that’s the plan.
The other items listed are simply incorrect. It sounds like the person didn’t know how to configure those.
Thanks for the review. As a Fenix 3 user and scuba diver, I love the idea of the dive watch. I wear my Fenix while diving (because I always wear it), but rely on my air-integrated dive computer for dive info,depth, compass, air, etc. I am at the point where I have been considering updating both my watch and my dive computer. If the Descent Mk1 had air integration, it would be a no-brainer. Alas, I’ll be waiting for the Mk2
Hey Ray, the watch finally arrived and it’s amazing.
But – many apps in the IQ store are not available, including Garmin’s run power. Do you have any information on when they’re gonna set the Descent properly there? I understand it’s a simple checkbox since the unit should be a Fenix 5x in regards to the IQ ?
Have you tested the compass? I can’t get a straight answer out of Garmin as to what the actual compass resolution and accuracy is. They claim it’s better than their previous devices, if it can hit a repeatable 1 degree then we’re in business.
Heeft de Descent Mk1 vooraf geladen profielen voor Kracht, training en cardiotraining, Cardio-workouts, krachttrainingen of de automatische herhalingstellingsfunctie & multisportactiviteiten
En volgens mij bevat de Descent Mk1 niet de FTP-functie (Functional Threshold Power) die beschikbaar is met de fenix 5X om te fietsen.
Verticale oscillatie en ratio (de mate van ‘bounce’ in uw loopbeweging en het kosten-batenratio met paslengte). Grondcontacttijd en balans
Klopt dit Ray, dat de Descent MK1 dit niet heeft, en de Fenix 5X wel allemaal
Not the MK1, it lacks the hardware to talk to the majority of air providers out there. That said, they 110% get that folks want it. I talk a little bit about it up above and the issue they faced in picking a horse.
So a little late to the game here and since I just purchased, probably should have asked prior but…… does anyone know the titanium rating for the MK1? Specifically it’s hardness as I wear my current HR3 daily (I mean I never take it off) and it get’s beat up quite a bit. Since I just spent a fortune on the Titanium one, I would love to have it stay nice and shiny/scratch free for as long as possible…..
Not sure of the hardness, but I work on an ambulance and have had mine for somee time as a tester and have a couple of very small dings that you really have to look for on the top outside edge. Hope that helps!
Changed charging craddle to F3 type? can it be nowe charged while using on trail running with gps and maps? It looks like it is a UPGRADED Fenix5x for ultrarunners. The only thing that keeps me from buying F5x (beside price ;) ) is lack of recharging possibility when running.
Next thing, i am afraid that it will be forgotten like Epix and no new features like for F5x (despite the same platform Epix=F3)
Ray mentions above that this is essentially a Fenix 5x. Now that it is out, can anyone answer if the Fenix 5x updates are being pushed to the Descent on a regular bases? Considering updating my Fenix 3hr and between the 5x and Descent. Specifically, has the extended display for use with the Edge head units been pushed to the Descent?
To be fair, on extended display it hasn’t even been rolled out fully yet to the Fenix 5 or FR935. That’s now slated for end of month I believe.
In any case, for Descent it just had a firmware update last week, though…it was pretty small. I think a bigger question will be updates like the Training Load true-up scheduled for early June, and how long that will take to hit Descent.
So I am not even sure where to begin to express my disappointment with the Descent MK1. I just spent $1,500 USD on the titanium version 2 weeks ago. I have dove with it twice (in a pool) and done a relatively light day of yard work with it. The bezel/skirt is already showing wear and it’s so concentrated to a single section, it’s hard not to notice. I truly thought going for the Titanium upgrade would make a difference but it is already starting to look like my F3HR that worked just fine. I could have just bought a decent dive computer for 1/3 of the price.
Don’t be thrown off by the dirty band in the pictures, it’s old so it’s worn.
Does anyone have any suggestion to clean up? Think it could get buffed? Anyone on the market for a slightly used Decent MK 1 (LOL)
We would like to look into this more, could you please email at social@garmin.com using the subject line ‘Descent MK1 – Seamus’ so that we can talk to you directly and work with you on exchanging your device?
That is very surprising! I have been a tester and have the titanium one for some time. I have also not jeard of any of the other testers having this issue, and several of us have jobs that are pretty abusive to watches!! I would suggest contacting Garmin about this!
And this is why I ask…. you folks always have the best answers. I was thinking about reaching out to Garmin so that will be the plan. I will update when i hear back.
Yeah Heather, you were the one that sold me on getting the Titanium upgrade. You had said it was pretty tough and the like….. we’ll see……
Hey Christopher! That’s a great suggestion! I’m not sure there will be room in the device to add this ability with wverything else that’s crammed into the case, but I will suggest it! I think that would be a great feature!!!
I don’t suppose you know, but I had an issue with my Fenix 5X optical HRS becoming covered in cracks. Looks like this isn’t an isolated issue. Do you know if the same sensor is used in this or if this problem has been rectified?
Does anybody know if descent MK1 is fully compatible with stryd?
I am using stryd with my Garmin forerunner 935 and I am very happy with it. I can see power through the connectIQ data field in my watch and at the same time I have stryd calculating pace and distance which I see during running.
Having in mind that descent MK1 is actually a Fenix 5X, and that Fenix 5X is fully compatible with stryd (as Garmin 935 is), can anyone confirm that I will be able to use stryd with the descent MK1 the same way I now use it with 935?
Thanks.
Does anybody know if descent MK1 is fully compatible with stryd?
I am using stryd with my Garmin forerunner 935 and I am very happy with it. I can see power through the connectIQ data field in my watch and at the same time I have stryd calculating pace and distance which I see during running.
Having in mind that descent MK1 is actually a Fenix 5X, and that Fenix 5X is fully compatible with stryd (as Garmin 935 is), can anyone confirm that I will be able to use stryd with the descent MK1 the same way I now use it with 935?
Thanks.
I’m considering this as my next dive computer. I’m a DM though I don’t scuba too much and mostly do freediving so it would mostly be used for freediving. I spend upto around 2 hours in a 2°C water on daily bases for work. Does anyone have any experience of using it in cold water conditions? I’ve never had a Garmin watch before so I would like to know from anyone who has the Descent MK1, or has had it for some time, if Garmin regularly pushes out some firmware/software updates?
Updates are regular, but delayed few months from Fenix family. But if you’re looking from the pure diving perspective – I’d go with link to shearwater.com
So… DCRM, as one who is planning a climb of Everest in a few months time, whilst actually diving off Koh PiPi, training for some road races and also exploring Myanmar and Laos…. whilst also needing a daily driver for the job that pays for all of this… which would you get? Fenix 5x+ or the Descent.
Thing that makes me scared is the “MK1.” #feels for us original Fenix buyers!
What’s actually surprising is the lack of PulseOx on this unit… it would have actually been useful!
Unless you dive a crap-ton, I think you’ll get more bang for your buck both short and long term. I somewhat agree with you on concerns with how much the MK1 will keep up long term. Obviously there was a massive firmware update last week, but that was basically the most notable update since release.
There is ONE nice feature of a “normal watch” however… tis good when you’re diving at different altitudes or have some decos and want a computer to monitor your No Dive Surface Interval… that it doesnt’ look like you have a PipBoy strapped to your arm when you go for a bowl of noodles in town lol. (Actually, does the Garmin have this feature?).
Ah well, guess I won’t retire the Shearwater just yet.
What truly beggars belief is how Suunto seem to have been caught asleep at the steering wheel when they’ve had such a HUGE lead in the market for DECADES!
I had the watch for 3 months. I used it all day everyday, loved the features. I even dove with it a few times, charting my tank and free dives on a trip to Greece was amazing. Then the watch failed…..
I was crewing a boat in a race off of Ventura, CA when the watch band snapped…and overboard she went! The band snapped at my inner wrist somewhere between the clasp and the 2 keepers holding it closed. Can not believe this happened!!! I mean for a watch of this price that I assume is designed to take a beating…..to just fall off my wrist!!
I know what your thinking, and I saw the watch hit the water with the quick releases intact on both sides of the watch housing. After a lot of back and forth with Garmin they have offered me a discount on a replacement that is completely insufficient.
Hi
Given the descent mk is based on the fenix 5x do you think there will be soft ware updates to either to allow music on them or a new version of the descent?
komt er een Descent MK2 met alle update,s van de fenix 5x plus met GPS, GLONASS en Galileo waarmee je gegevens in veeleisendere omstandigheden beter bij kunt houden
Just one question : let’s say you want to static apnea in a shallow swimming pool. Will the timer down starts or is there a way to manually start the timer ?
If you’re using this over a wetsuit (so the integrated HRM won’t work) will it work with a chest strap HRM for freediving. Thinking like around 16-20m depth. Does Garmin have any support for heart-monitoring while diving with this watch, since typically you’d be wearing a wetsuit in all but the warmest locations.
No, generally that’d be too far underwater to make the connection (it’s usually about 3-4cm), unless you hold up the watch to your chest. But I don’t remember if that module (ANT+ connectivity) is even enabled underwater in dive mode.
Great review. I just wonder how it is for running compared to Fenix 5S? I´m mostly interested in the distance, speed, average speed GPS, maps while running.
Great review, much appreciated. After reading I went to Clever Training website to try and buy the watch but it says your 10% off coupon code is not valid on this item. Is that correct or am I doing something wrong.
Thanks!
Garmin restricts the coupon code usage on this item. However, with the VIP bits (link to dcrainmaker.com) you do get 10% back in points, which you can then spend immediately for something else. So that’s quite a fair bit in points for things like accessories or what-not.
Ray,
I’ve had a Fenix 5 for a while and am getting to the point of thinking of upgrading, maybe to the MK1. Comments here are generally supportive / happy with the watch. My real question is how soon do you see an MK2 coming out? Getting a new watch will be much more want >>> need, which means I can wait for an MK2 if it is coming down the pike any time soon (especially if it has the pulse-ox that the 5X+ has). A triathlon / diving watch with a pulse ox, talk about a whole lot of awesome stuff I don’t totally need…
As a physician, I can tell you that unless you have a SERIOUS respiratory condition, PulseOX is mainly wasted on us near sea-level.
If diving, oxygen monitoring takes a different form – in the mode of Close Circuit Rebreathers, which is night-and-day with most standard SCUBA systems. Again, PulseOX is generally useless in this situation.
FYI you should be looking at a constant 98-100 saturation, even under extreme physical activity. You’ll only notice pulseox falling in sustained high-altitude conditions.
I own a second unit of Descent MK1 after an RMA. I’m normally a trail runner, that’s my top activity from October to June, along with some indoor cycling, tec… Although in summer I will also include some swimming and….scuba diving. That’s why I decided to go for a one for all watch. I could to trail run early in the morning and afterwards a scuba dive.
However, I had a problem with the first unit, that is unfortunately replicating in the second unit. It seems that after some dive activities the watch starts to give some wrong readings on trail runs. The accumulated height is giving wrong readings when compared to my same previous activities with the same watch, and previous owned Fenix 2 and Fenix 3 and of course when compared to other friends’ readings. Distance seems to be ok, as well time, etc.. it’s the total meters climbed that’s wrong.
It looks like a design issue, have you heard about anything similar? Have you been able to see these errors by yourself? I use it intensively for trail running and it’s very annoying not having the right readings. It’s always a matter of giving less meters than it’s supposed.
Accumulated height should get updated once it gets uploaded. Then it should be more accurate as it’s based on topographical data instead of just on the internal barometer. I think the barometer basically gives you an estimate of vertical change during the activity, but then elevation data from the actual GPS route is used once it’s uploaded. At least that’s the way I understand it. So if you’re just looking at the watch right after a run, compared to previous uploaded runs of the same route, it might be different. Once they’re all uploaded should be the same. I think.
I’ll be taking mine freediving for the first time in two weeks, so I’ll have to see what happens to my normal stuff after. I am really liking the watch so far.
any news on a Fenix 5 plus based Descent MK II? Now that Garmin released the Fenix 6 series, the 5 plus should be stable enough to make a diving spin off.
A Descent Mk II with Air Integration and based on a Fenix 6X Solar would be perfect, as it would have the V3 HR optical sensor capable of working while swimming.
Have you tested the GPS & HRM accuracy?
And would you recommend the Descent MK1 to multi sports enthusiast?
I’m mostly doing sports climbing, trekking and running, but also interested in swimming and free diving. So, Descent would be best choice for my every sports.
Actually, I’m waiting for MK2 model which might be based on Fexnix6x.
Based on my personal experience, I would not recommend MK1 for such use. It’s a great watch for diving or multisport but is not performing well while combining diving and multi-sport. At least if you care about barometric height readings. After different tests with different units and 2 RMA’s. Somehow after diving the sensors get confused or blocked and the unit does not mesure correctly ascent metrics. I finnally changed it for a Fenix 6X pro and I got back to my old diving watch. That’s my personal experience.
Thanks for your advice. Then, does Descent works perfect if I don’t do dive and multisports consecutively in a same day?
Usually I don’t do it in a row and if it is right, Descent would be perfect match for me.
Actually I’m waiting for MK2. The only concern is weight and price. It may be too heavy for running, right?
It doesn’t matter if it’s the same day to not. Unless you reset the device to factory settings, it will give you wrong cumulative height readings. I was doing one day scuba, the day after (or every other day) trail and the readings were consistently wrong. Too bad for such a great device.
Rgds,
Pablo
Do you know if the MK1 charger is compatible with the Fenix 5x? I ask because I would like a charger that fits on my 5x more securely so that I can charge it while riding my bike, and the MK1 charger looks as if it could better accomplish that goal vs. the easily unplugged stock 5x charger. Thanks!
I returned this week from a week long live aboard SCUBA trip where I completed 22 dives and a few other activities while trying to use my Descent MK1 but it failed. I think I have found either a bug with my device or a bug with the Garmin system of syncing data to the phone. Incidentally there was no internet available on the boat or cell service where we were. It was like Gilligan’s Island but with AC and really good food.
After 7 dives and 3 kayaking activities over 3 days without internet my watch quit saving dives or anything else. I just got a message with “saving” with the spinning wheel for hours at a time. I had to forced power off the watch to get it back. After 3 dives of no saving, I deleted all older FIT files in the Activities folder. Then it saved 7 more dives. This was now day 5. After that it would no longer save again regardless of what I did. It acted as if it was full, at least in short term memory, but the device was only about 25% full when I looked a the properties in File Explorer when I had it connected to my laptop. I tested this by trying all the other activities loaded on my watch. None of them would save. I kept getting the “saving” message with the spinning wheel. Once we got back to port and internet, I put all files back in the activities folder, connected to the internet, and synced. It took several hours to sync but once it was done I could save activities again.
Is this an issue will all Garmin watches? Do they get “full” if they can’t sync to the internet? Is there are work around for this? I can’t believe I am the only Garmin user who does adventures off the internet grid. I have done several in the past over a couple days without issue but this has been my longest off grid time since I became a Gamin user.
Is this something you can test and validate with your vast selection of Garmin devices and can you push Garmin for a fix. I emailed customer service but have not received a response nor do I expect one at this point.
Anyone have any idea when the Descent MK2 will be coming out? It is almost about time for me to upgrade my Fenix 5 (well, its working fine but I WANT) a new watch, and I’m trying to patiently wait to see if the MK2 comes out any time soon. I’m a vacation diver without a real need for a diving watch so it isn’t worth buying something dedicated, but if they put a reasonable premium on top of the Fenix 6 I’d buy one…
Could you do a review on the MK2? I wouldnt mind not reviewing the diving part since all other reviews available are geared towards the diving part, I would like to know from you how it pairs up as a daily fitness watch!
Hello Ray (I had to Google that),
I hope all is well.
I find your videos reviews very informative, and trust worthy. And because of that, I was wondering if I can trouble you and ask for a Garmin Descent G1 review?
I’m trying to weigh it agains the MK2, from my perspective, as an Ironman distance triathlete and a technical diver (With a main fully dedicated technical dive computer – Shearwater Perdix – but looking for the Garmin as a backup). And sporting a Forerunner 935 which meets all my triathlon training needs.
Keep up the good work. And thank you very much.
Has anyone tried the MK2 yet combining diving and trail running activities? I had to return my MK1 since the barometer it was not accurate at trail running, if used after diving activities. The only way to fix it was restting the device to factory defaults everytime.
Not handy if you’re diving one day and trailrunning the day after, lime me.
I’m curious to know if this has been solved in MK2
Thx
I can happily confirm the mk1 is a dependable work horse. I put more than 300 dives on it over a 3 year period (freediving) and it never missed a beat. Took some heavy knocks on rocks too. Still going strong as a backup computer.
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Makes the 5x look cheap!
The Descent Mk1 is expected to be available in Q4 2017 for a suggested retail price of $999.99 for the stainless-steel and $1,499.99 for the premium version.
True, it’s more expensive than the 5X. Though, if you want a fun journey, go check out the USD costs of Suunto’s watch sized dive computers (sans GPS/etc…). Yikes!
That said, I think Suunto would be extremely well positioned here to essentially do what Garmin’s doing, and they’ve got a far longer backstop of diving brand recognition to go on.
Interesting times!
yup, this is The Suunto-killer watch… I just can’t wait to put my hands on it and leave my suunto watches behind.
more of a FYI / what I’ve found interesting researching dive computers, algorithms (this lecture nicely explains things re algo direction: link to youtube.com)
DSAT ~=PADI dive tables ~~~= ZHL-16C with a GFhi of ~95%. Here’s a neat table:
from Simply Scuba and Oceanic (guess it from the latter first – and unsure of its date)
This file was dated 2009:
short story IMO – Garim have chosen the correct algo!
ScubaLab have a link to their raw NDL data for each of the computer tested (for each year too). Compiling and ranking it produces close results to the info above.
Hope this helps.
Thanks Ray,
I have no interest in diving but I appreciate the diversity in your tech reviews. Fascinating read.
Thanks for posting
Bob
yes, I very much second that, I found this interesting despite not diving myself.
Thanks Ray!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed!
Really interesting with so much potential.
But you’ve hit the nail right on the head in that, would consumers trust Garmin. For me, not now.
I’ll be interested to see how Suunto respond given they are very much proven in the dive market.
Hopefully dive alarms/alerts aren’t “synced” by Garmin Connect.
Well played…
(They aren’t.)
Knowing how little GC syncs, that was not really to be expected, was it? ;-)
What might have been more interesting is if the had linked the 5X’s gyroscopes to give you some underwater navigation capabilities
According to Garmin web site, the watch does include 3-axis compass for underwater navigation.
You do have the compass underwater though, so that’s there. Plus of course the ascent meter on the right side will show you if you’re going up or down. From a gyro standpoint, I’m not sure how it would provide additional detail beyond what compass + depth would do. Thoughts?
if it was highly acurate it could do basic 3d mapping but its not that good and the wrist is a bad location. link to en.wikipedia.org
Is the shown depth as “accurate” as the altimeter of other garmins n wearables?
On accuracy, my sample size is limited…however:
A) In my test dive chamber I did a long and varied dive test where the Descents figure matched an actual dive gauge (non-electronic).
B) While diving at NEMO33, I validated the figures matched to the also manual dive gauge I was using.
Only a few samples, but a good start.
I think what andrew is saying is that it might be possible to use the internal gyros, combined with the initial GPS fix and depth gauge, to provide an actual underwater track similar to the way an inertial navigation system worked in aircraft and spacecraft before the advent of GPS and currently still used in submarines. It is an interesting idea, but might be too taxing for the CPU and the small, cheap gyros might not be precise enough for that purpose. Might be a feature we see added later on though.
Ahh, gotchya. Now that would be pretty darn cool! Maybe not so much during the dive with today’s tech, but in a logbook fashion afterwards to be able to replay.
I might be able to provide some greater information on the depth accuracy. I’ve been a beta tester for the product. I believe what you’re referencing is the lack of accuracy in altitude within air. I believe most products are using +/- 100 ft as their accuracy threshold. It’s very difficult to judge altitude based on the minute changes in air pressure, especially when it changes with the weather.
Depth underwater is much easier to judge considering 1.) Due to the weight, water pressure increases much faster than air. 2.) Pressure increases quite linearly underwater (1 ATM per 33ft/10m)
I can tell you with confidence that the depth is spot on with other dive computers I’ve tested against.
Thanks for this information. Good to know!
Eric – yeah, that’s exactly what I meant.
—
– Connects to ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart accessories, can control GoPro action cams
—
GoPro? Did you mean VIRB here? Would be cool to have GoPro support from Garmin watches but I can’t find any reference to that!
Grr…G words strike again! Thanks!
Cool review, totally came out of nowhere love it.
How are the dimensions of the watch, is it a like for like size as the Fenix 5X?
Too bad they never thought to include Garmin Pay in there, was hoping that was going to be a standard thing on all their devices now.
Identical to 5X in the size department. I’ll weigh it tomorrow to see if any differences there (Cave is without power right now).
As for Garmin Pay, I think the main reason being the re-use of the 5X hardware. While it probably wouldn’t have been a huge jump to stick in the required NFC components, my guess is that it would have changed enough things to push back dates.
So grateful for this! I wasn’t sure if you’d be writing about the Descent so it’s great to hear you scuba dive too. I’m also a triathlete and scuba diver, so looks like this might be the watch for me!
Just to be clear – the watch still has all the other functions of the “normal” Fenix Series? Including the maps?
Yup, everything else is there, including maps that vary based on region. Think of this as a Fenix 5XU (where U stands for Underwater).
What about strength training/cardio?
I don’t see these listed for Mk1 when compared against Fenix 5X on Garmin website that gives me a big pause.
Can these be created on the watch? Installed from ConnectIQ store?
I don’t see the automatic rep counting pieces there yet on the software I have on this unit, but it’s also not slated to start shipping today either.
I’ll confirm with Garmin, but my guess is this is a good example of where the Fenix 5/5S/5X just got those about a month ago via firmware update, and that I suspect the Descent lineup is working off of the slightly delayed feature update schedule to account for locking things down a bit more.
I can live without rep counting, but not having access to actual activities (for whatever reason) is gonna be unacceptable on $999 device. They include Indoor Rowing in Fitness Equipment, but not Strength or Cardio or Elliptical, which is very strange.
Also, there are some running dynamics differences between Fenix 5(X) and Mk1, which also strikes me as odd.
Hopefully, this is due to a watch not being released yet and not another example of Garmin’s creative feature packaging.
Oh, just to be clear, those activities are all there today. On my unit I can see Rowing (indoors and outdoors), as well as Strength, Cardio. Even ‘Boat’. I don’t see Elliptical though.
And Running Dynamics should be all identical. Here’s a run with it and the RD pod from a few days ago: link to connect.garmin.com
“You are my savior! My personal Jesus Christ!” The Matrix 1999
Wew! My Christmas budget has now a $999 hole in it, my wife’s gonna kick me out of the house, but I’m a happiest man alive! The Holy Grail of all things athletic in one convenient location is upon us, brothers and sisters!
great source of info about this watch, have been waiting for something like this :)
if I understand correctly apart from the described differences (physical + added diving features) there are no other differences to 5x, correct? Essentially Descent is an expansion of 5x features as I understand it, right?
Thank you!
F
Yup – totally correct, beyond what I listed it’s the same as a Fenix 5X. So for a triathlete or sporty person that was looking at a 5X and also dives, this is a pretty logical step up.
I’m really surprised they support trimix in this watch. Did Garmin document what algorithm they use? If it’s not an open algorithm (i.e. Buhlmann), with support for things like setting gradient factors, I don’t see how any technical diver could adopt it.
They use Buhlmann.
Thanks for this!! I’ve been WISHING for Garmin to make a dive watch for years, and since my 620 is on its last legs, I was about to upgrade to a 935… I think I’ll go for this one now.
Exactly! I was suffering a lot of ANT+ drops on my Fenix 5 and was seriously considering up-trading to 5X, where the issue is said to be far less pronounced / non-existent. If Mk1 can do everything Fenix 5 can AND handle my diving needs (hell, I finally get proper dive logs and entry/exit points for dive sites!), this will be huge.
As a runner, it didn’t occur to me that Garmin has to deliver much more reliable products for aviation, and clearly they’ve figured out how to do that. It makes one question whey they can’t have some people from that team teach the sports team about quality.
Like any product, it comes down to the resources you spend on testing. Same with Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc… That list of resources includes automated means as well as human means. So everything from developing comprehensive feature test plans as well as having the resources to validate those test plans.
All of which then ties back to timelines and financial resources. So in the case of the Fenix 5/5/5X they can move faster because they don’t test as deeply as on Descent. Likewise, on the Forerunner they can move faster because they don’t test as hard as aviation gear.
Not saying it’s right or wrong, but just the reality of the situation today.
I work in aviation certification engineering and you absolutely do NOT want us getting our hands on anything in the fitness market. Just look at how much more expensive this watch is and how much longer it took to be released than the Fenix 5X. If you had to test that device to FAA standards and document it like all of the aviation products it would probably cost at least 50% more than it does and wouldn’t be released until next year. Then, if you needed to do a software update you could expect about 6 months of documentation and testing before you would be able to install the new software update. There are always trade-offs between reliability, price, and speed of implementation. When things absolutely, positively, must work right the first time, every time, it takes a lot longer to develop and test it. Which then drives up the cost since you have to pay engineers for a lot of hours of work.
If there’s no easy way to import dive history — does that mean that I can’t import files from Suunto Movescount to Garmin Connect? I never could before but I assumed it was because they just didn’t support a detailed dive profile.
A guy on Scubaboard, who says he’s been beta testing Mk1, claims Garmin stores all dive information in regular Fit files, with additional data fields. If that’s the case, perhaps they would let some import means like they currently allow TCX/GPS import from the outside on Garmin Connect web site.
The other way would be to take custom/Subsurface dive logs, generate Fit files, and copy them onto Mk1 via USB? I’m wondering if that hack would force Mk1 to sync historical activities back to Garmin.
Correct, all dive files are .FIT – just like all other workout files.
Right now, the Garmin Connect (non-mobile) side of things isn’t terribly special for dive files. I’ve asked for clarification on how that might change to be a bit more like a dive log book, than a workout site.
But I suspect that if GC is updated to have a dive section, then one could do as you said and probably reasonably easy create an online parser from popular dive log book export formats and re-map fields into something a .FIT file would be happy with.
I’ll be happy if Garmin allows me to manually create an activity that’s more detailed so I can just manually input the data from past dives! Suunto’s DM5 software has been a total nightmare for me, and I’ll be happy to let that go.
The lack of an easy way to import existing dive history to Garmin Connect is a pretty significant downside. There are divers with hundreds, even thousands, of dives already recorded in their electronic dive logs. Not being able to transfer these dives over to GC’s logbook would be a real disincentive.
My question is why would you? Really. As long as you can export your dives to your fav app/logbook, then the ability to upload historic dives to a watch/computer is pointless. Suunto, for example, starts clearing dives after 99 dives.
Douglas, it’s not about exporting historic dive info to the watch/computer/device; it’s about exporting that historic dive info to the platform that this device uses. In this case, that’s Garmin Connect. From Ray’s pictures above, you can see that GC will incorporate a dive log feature to support the Descent MK1. But if the GC dive log can’t easily import historic info from other dive log apps, then that’s a major limitation. Particularly for any diver who already has hundreds (or thousands) of dives logged elsewhere.
A dive watch without a rotating bezel is heresy. Burn it. Burn it with fire!
Little off topic I noticed you mentioning upcoming reviews on other watches. I’ve been on hold for getting a Fenix 5X because it seems the 6 series will be coming just around the corner. I’m thinking a January announcement your thoughts ? Also you do you think an new Virb Ultra will be out soon?
The F5/S/X was released in March 17 – about 6 months ago. Don’t expect to see a 6 series for another 18 months. There may be a refresh in 2018 to fix Garmin’s #$%^ up with ANT+/BLE sensors on the F5, and perhaps add in NFC, but it will be basically the 5 series refreshed.
not sure about “released”, but 5 was announced in january 2017 and 3hr in january 2016. so…
Huh, my last post seems to have disappeared into the depths… :-/
I did want to add that it would be far better to be able to export dives to a third party app (I personally use MacDive, there are other options available) vs. trying to import previous dive history into Garmin Connect.
Weird. I don’t see any comments sitting in spam/junk/pending. Sorry, to wherever it sunk!
As for activities, they’re stored in standard .FIT files. Now of course, 3rd parties will have to learn how to consume those since they are unlikely to use the format like the rest of the sports tech industry does. But it’s pretty trivial for 3rd party apps to add.
Interesting your comment at the end there about whether I’d trust a Garmin dive computer. The answer right now? NO WAY. And I love my Garmin Fenix 3 and all other devices I’ve had from them. But I’ve been diving on an Oceanic dive computer of some sort for 20 years now. And never once has it had a hiccup. To be fair, I dive with two computers generally just in case but I want my dive computer to be absolutely dedicated to the task.
With that said, my comment to my wife was “Well, when it’s time for me to replace my Fenix 3 in a few years, they’ll probably have the kinks all worked out” Maybe. But I’ll be talking to the guys over at Scubaboard to see what they think 8) I really like how it saves the data in Garmin Connect but I have recently moved back to a paper log and probably will stick with that for diving.
One thing I don’t see here is if the computer is capable of changing algorithms or how conservative it is by default. I’m sure there’s a lot of settings you don’t get into here but I am interested to see what this does to the market at least.
Also, on a diving & triathlon related note…talk about two sports that are hard to do together. If I dive all day Saturday, there’s no way I can work out the next day. If I’m training for a 140.6 distance event then scuba generally goes on the back burner for a few months.
You stated that the optical HR works underwater. Is Garmin going to update or allow the optical HR on the 935 to work while swimming?
I think it only works for scuba due to lack of arm movement. For swimming, even Mk1 is said to require chest strap.
Correct.
Interesting, I thought the hurdle to overcome would have been related to water between the sensor and skin. The optical HR works when running and there’s arm movement then.
Water in between can cause issues, but it’s not too bad actually.
The issue is that each time your wrist hits the water, it’s a massive ‘shock’ to the watch, like whacking pavement. So the watch can easily get confused in the same way it does running with running cadence sometimes. Further, when you bring your hand out of the water, liquid drains out between the watch and then fills again, often with bubbles of air in there. It’s kinda a mess.
That said, various watches have implemented it to varying degrees of success in swimming. I’d be surprised if we don’t see Garmin eventually get there, either through firmware/software updates, or hardware tweaks.
From what I’ve read about optical heart rate sensors and have seen in strength training, the limiting factor has less to do with sweat/water and irregularity of movement and flexing of hand muscles restricting blood flow. So, it works relatively well for walking and running where hands move in predictable patterns aligned with shocks from steps. This wouldn’t work as well in the water… Not that it totally doesn’t work. I’m just no sold on accuracy.
Ray,
Thanks for the glimpse into Garmin’s foray to Dive Computers. As an amateur, aged triathlete, I latched on to Garmin products and really like them. For Scuba, I use a Vyper Air with a wireless transmitter. As an endurance athlete, I was wondering if there is a way to capture heart rate while scuba diving… and you (and Garmin) have now answered the question.
How was the viewablility of the Descent MK1 through the mask? What kind of backlight does it have?
As always, love your reviews. Keep up the good work. And, if you ever want to dive in the great lakes. Let me know.
No issues with visibility of the screen. Though, keep in mind the water was about as clear as you’d ever get, and I also have pretty good eyesight.
That said, it was a million times easier to see than the beat-up dive-computer the place had (which isn’t a fair comparison, but a comparison nonetheless).
The backlight is pretty bright – same as the Fenix 5. It’s actually interesting that in the photos it appears a bit red at depth, but in reality that’s just funky camera games.
The backlight is adjustable. As a beta tester, I have found having it set at 20-30% to auto start at depth works very well and does not overly tax the battery. Both in lake and ocean.
Thank you Ray,
Do you know which algorithm they use?
Does it support external sensors?
Bühlmann ZHL-16c for the algorithm.
And no external dive sensors today. It’s something they are looking at, but are trying to decide which devices/standards to support. Part of the challenge they see is basically figuring out which horse to bet on when it comes to external sensors.
Hi Ray, thanks for the review.
It was so good I actually bought th MK1, and have been very satisfied with it.
did you have any news about the external sensor ? that really is the only downside of the watch.
Ray, Does the Garmin MK1 require some wireless sensor for the air tank gauges at all? Does it even tell you remaining air? I have an Atmos dive computer that physically hooks to my tank via hose and it tells me everything the Garmin does, including air pressures (which would make the Garmin a good sanity check while validating it for dive use).
I guess in other words, does it need anything additional if I wanted to make this my only dive computer and handle all my essential dive data…
No connectivity at all (in any manner). That’d likely tech different hardware, as the current chipset is just for ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart support, and neither can go more than 2-3cm underwater. This was the singular area the Garmin Dive Product Group noted that it wasn’t likely to be within the MK1 product.
Does that ‘kindof’ imply that AI might be on the cards for a MK2? :)
I wonder if there was talk about Qi charging?
Thanks :)
Is it Buhlmans with Gradient Factors or just straight Buhlmans?
You can choose three conservatism settings: High, Medium, Low. Alternatively, you can specify a custom value (i.e. 35/75). You’ll first specify the low gradient factor in the menu, and then the high factor.
Very cool that it can do more than diving. Most dive watches are still so far behind in terms of connectivity, even interface, etc. And this one does those well and so much more beyond diving. Very cool.
A couple of possible typos:
“It’s at this juncture you can change your water-type as well as configure alerts. In standard gauge mode those would just be depth and time alerts. You can also change the water type.”
Water type mentioned twice?
“See, nothing will happen until the depth gauge activates, which won’t occur until you’re about 1ft underwater. At that point the activity automatically stops recording and the GPS is disabled.”
do you mean that it starts recording?
Very interesting read, even for someone who have never been diving.
Thanks, fixed!
Excellent! Unfortunately I just sold all my tech gear but as a self confessed geek I still like to keep up to date :-)
That really is a great package for the price!
Great “hands-on”!! With this unit capturing HR under water, do you expect Garmin to turn on HR on the 935 or other running/triathlon watches (which I don’t believe capture swimming HR right now)?
Do you know if there will ever be a way to get the diving ‘app’ on a regular fenix? Already having a 5, it seems the watch could handle nearly everything minus the extremes of depth, total lock down, good water proofing depth, HR can work underwater, just need the depth calculator (via barometric pressure?) and the math for NDL etc.
I’ve seen a pretty good connect IQ app, but full functionality (more than 1 dive…) is like $30, and Garmin now proves they can do it for free.
I doubt they’ll do it. More out of safety concern than anything else with folks then turning around and using something for diving and it going wrong when it wasn’t really designed for diving. Just my guess.
Used to be a dive app on connect iq on Garmin site but it’s gone now and when I tried to use it m f3hr says “version expired.” The web shows an app you can download here, http://www.diveiq.com. Obviously, the safety protocols won’t be there as they are in this watch Ray has shown.
Interesting article on how Garmin has handled connect iq dive apps. Apparently, everything from Fenix 3hr forward has been capable of dive apps but Garmin took them down. Why not, when you’ve been preparing a $1,000 diving watch for two years? A free app would really hurt.
link to appelmoessite.wordpress.com
There are physical hardware differences between the Descent and previous wearables.
If I were Garmin, I certainly wouldn’t want users in vulnerable situations where a hardware failure (in untested scenarios) could lead to injury.
The whole dive CIQ app thing has long been discussed at Garmin. There were discussions years ago about whether to allow them at all. Seems like they were allowed for a short time, and then pulled, etc…
All of it around liability concerns from every conversation I’ve gathered (since these stretched like 3 years back).
I think it has little to do with a free app and a lot to do with legal and compliance. Keeping an uncertified diving app in store would open Garmin, should something go wrong, to all sorts of litigation. Also, the app in Fenix 3HR used a barometric pressure sensor to figure out depth — I still remember the discussion the author of the app had about it on Garmin forums. A careful look at Mk1 spec shows a dedicated depth sensor, which presumably is far less failure proof and far more accurate, especially at greater depths.
Talk Freudian slips… Meant the Mk1 depth sensor should be far less failure prone and more accurate at depths.
I really just thought I would throw that out there for fun. I certainly wouldn’t trust my 3hr with a diving app. But, it might make a fun backup. Years ago, Swatch made a watch model that had an anolog depth guage with dive time. Basically, a dive timer and gauge. It stated all over it that it was not safe/approved for diving but that’s exactly what it was designed for. I used it as a backup only until it crapped out. I think the challenge for Garmin here, is why, would I give up my trusty Oceanic wrist dive computer that I only paid a couple hundred dollars for. They’re simply bombproof, tested, and trusted. Plus, I kinda like that fact that it’s a big chunky thing with a screen twice as big as my 3hr or the 5. I can see the darn thing at depth in low light. Anyway, wish Garmin would at least let us have a dive timer app as a backup. What’s the harm?
“Charging port changed: In order to get the dive-focused 100m rating, they switched back to the Fenix 3 charging port”
I assumed that due to new charging port, the Descent cradle isn’t compatible with F5X ??
Correct.
Clarification; I believe the Fenix 3 charger is incompatible with the Descent, it is simply similar in appearance and use.
Yeah, there’s some very tiny differences there. I’ve gotta see if one charger can be made to work with the other and vice versa. Will try tomorrow.
Could be interesting to know : the ability to have a cradle for F5X that could be wear like F3 cradle is a “must have” :-)
Does it stay locked out for 24 hours after the dive? I would expect it to do that to keep with the “safety” of the dive.
Some things do. For example, if I do a gauge dive (as I did yesterday), I can’t use any of the gas dive options for 24 hours after starting my gauge dive.
But flying, well, there’s no way the unit can keep you from boarding a plane. ;)
Instead, it just shows you a small airplane icon with an ‘x’ over it, and the time remaining, which is shown on the stock dive watch face.
Hi, I love the review. I noticed that the dive profile is really straight. Did you really dive this way?
It was not clear to me, but does it count the ndl based on your preset plan or does it use actual depth and gas info? Also, as a side note, ndl is not an acronym I am used to.
NDL (an Acronym for No-Decompression Limit) is your allowable bottom time. It is based on Nitrogen loading. Since the Descent is not Air integrated gas info is not relevant. You will need another computer and/or gauge to monitor current air levels.
Um, or a simple pressure gauge. Sheesh, when I learned to dive in ’76 the industry was still getting rid of J valves — that’s where you pulled a lever to get a little more out of your tank. It’d start breathing hard, and you knew it was time to boogie to the surface.
As for the dive profile, no, it just does the super simplified view on that page.
On the last tab, it’ll show the true dive profile using the depth gauge, but at present on the current beta GCM builds, it’s not enumerating for me for some reason.
I’ve also used a J valve and said gauge in my prior comment ;)
Not sure you answered the question as asked, which if I’m interpreting it correctly was “hey, does this thing tell you how long you have based on your dive plan, i.e., is it just running the old Navy dive tables for you, or does it take into account your actual dive?
It’s the latter. I believe the NDL time displayed is based on a calculation of how much nitrogen you’ll have in your bloodstream when you surface. In other words, there’s a mathematical model that’s always running based on your dive profile. Assuming you head to the surface at 1ft/sec (1m per 3 seconds), the NDL time is the maximum time you can stay at your current depth and still have a controlled ascent to the surface with no deco stops. My first dive computer (an Orca Edge) was the size and weight of a gold brick, but had a really cool display that would show you the nitrogen saturation of different tissue types on an histogram. You could see the model work… I haven’t seen this since, and absolutely loved it.
Anyway, training these models is why you tell the watch what kind of gas you’re breathing (it changes the coefficients for absorption). And this is why you can tweak the acceptable saturation levels of the model, thus building in a safety margin in case you have more scar tissue or fat or paranoia than the next person.
FWIW with the Suunto I usually set it to a very conservative model, and then take a deco stop at 10ft/3m for a few minutes regardless. Besides building in a safety margin, I find I feel a bit better afterwards (sinuses and all that). YMMV. IANAD. (I am not a doctor!)
Perhaps because you never got deep enough, but the most important thing they display while diving is the time left at the current depth before you have to take a decompression stop. This is the one number I pay attention to other than air left in the tank. Oh, and when I have to get back to the surface to not miss lunch…
Image is from Garmin’s descent page.
Thanks, Richard
p.s. Nit: “Heart Rate Zeon” (in the section where you detail what’s on the dive mode display, and if I read correctly, were you omit the no-decon time field).
So, if the Descent MK1 is capable of reading HR underwater, and the Descent is a F5X, can also de F5X read the HR underwater?
I never tried so long, but in short test, it never read my HR in a pool.
Thanks!
No. It’s the swimming aspect (whacking of the water) that’s the issue for Garmin today. Whereas underwater things are pretty clean.
YMMV, however I found that I was eventually able to adjust the watch to allow for good heart rate monitoring.
Two things to be aware of:
1.) Constrictive wet suits, or overly tight dry suit seals may interfere with wrist based monitoring
2.) I found you need to be careful to get just the right band tension. Anything too tight or loose lead to incorrect readings. Once you find that sweet spot it appears accurate.
Is the watch just nitrox or can it also do trimix
I am a trained technical diver, have two suunto computers.
Use Garmin for cycling, running, and day-to-day tracking.
Would I use a Garmin dive computer? Not a chance.
Real technical divers will never use computers anyway (except as a gauge).
Being a triathlete and a diving instructor, having Garmin 5X for only three months, this hits me hard :D
Fascinating. I have a 935 and a Suunto D6i and have always fancied a watch that would combine the best of both worlds and this new offering by Garmin is intriguing. That said, time will be the ultimate test to make sure that there are no software hiccups or quirks similar to what we all have experienced when running or cycling with our Garmin products. U absolutely have to be able to rely on non-decompression limits when you are diving. Suunto is the master of the space and also have the more conservative algorithms re NDL on their computers and watches.
Not sure if I missed it in the review but is there a nitrox setting which allows you to change the oxygen blend?
does it has Triathlon mode?
Yes. Same as Fenix 5 series, full tri support.
As to reliability, I really like the idea of Garmin shutting down all the frippery when in dive mode. I’m guessing it won’t take very many test dives to get tons of “final beta testing” (courtesy of the early adopters). I’m likely to be one of those, and also taking into account the extreme volume Garmin will enjoy of this watch means that it will be incredibly well tested in some insane scenarios. In other words, this is quickly likely to be the most reliable dive instrument you can buy.
Ray: if you beach dive (remember those?) will it show you your snorkeling time/path/whatever? I’d expect most shore dives to have 10-20 minutes of snorkeling, 30+ minutes of submersion, and then another 10-20 minutes of snorkeling back to the beach. What would that look like?
I don’t believe it would show the snorkeling path, because the GPS shuts off as soon as you hit the water (it might actually technically shut off once you press to initiative the dive before it hits the water but after it’s acquired signal).
And then it won’t regain GPS until you’ve exited water (depth = 0). But I don’t think if you re-dive it’ll find again. There’s a delay you can set, but I couldn’t come up with an easy way to test that at either NEMO33 (due to their structure constraints), or in the dive chamber (since it takes a bit of time to unseal it and get outside). Perhaps RJANUARY or one of the other beta testers here can comment on that in a legit openwater setting (else, starting January I’ve got months of openwater swims in warm water).
Does this mean that some oddball watches coming up? Like the quatix 5 sailing watch? It’s another Fenix 5
I currently lack a sailboat. Or any boat. I have two kayaks. But they’re under long term loan/safekeeping with a friend back in DC.
You mean no there is no sailing down the Seine? Lol
Not without hitting bridges on either side of the DCR Studio/Cave. I’d make it about 100m in either direction before hitting one.
Well that’s one way to get a fenix 5X that can be worn on the wrist and charged on the fly at the same time. Albeit an expensive way.
I’d love to see you do something with the Garmin D2 series. You do seem to have an interest in aviation as well, right? It would be a perfect excuse to rent an airplane!
Is it possible that later Garmin could make this watch compatible with the Sunnto wireless pods that transmits air pressure?
I run and bike, and dive (tec to 50 meters). I use a Shearwater Perdix AI for diving, which does trimix, and all that. Shearwater has great respect within the tec diving community, and since I am old enough to need bifocals and also since I dive in some low vis environments at times I love the big bright Shearwater screen. So while I love my Garmin watch, I don’t think I’d ever get their dive computer.
But, pertaining to this post, the Shearwater Perdix AI uses Oceanic air pressure transmitters, and I’ve found my transmitter to be very reliable. Presumably Garmin could choose to support this type of transmitter, though I don’t know what radio protocol it uses.
I was thinking exactly the same thing.
Though I think I’d take the opportunity to have redundancy in my dive watches; currently I use a D9 + D3 as redundancy and a 3HR for other sports.
I like the idea or HR when diving and free diving in particular and correlating with SAC through my air Transmitter would be great.
I use the excellent Div Log app on my Mac and iPhone as my digital log and I’ve emailed them to ask if they would consider support for the Descend MK1 and correlating two data sources.
I’ll keep you posted.
Seems like it might be an a good time for Garmin to incorporate tides (not sure if they did on the descent).
I think you will get tides with the (paid) garmin bluechart maps on the descent and/or if garmin will make the “tides” App from the iq store compatible for the descent…
This is interesting. I’ve spoken to Suunto about a diving (freediving/spearfishing to specify) function a few month ago and they have taken it on board as a feature request. Unfortunately, I haven’t heard back from them since.
Any chance Garmin will add the apnea mode to regular Fenix5 models? I have a separate computer for scuba diving, but would love the apnea mode for free diving!
No, unlikely, since there’s no depth gauge/sensor within it.
Does it still have an barometric altimeter?
Yes, it does according to the Garmin published spec
Can you use powemeters such as Gamin Vector 3?
Yes, any ANT+ or Bluetooth Smart power meter. Identical to Fenix 5 in that respect.
This was the most exciting part of the article for me: “we’ve got more running watches coming in tomorrow (which I haven’t even discussed anywhere). And then more yet the next day” Forerunner 245??
Hey folks-
For those that have been e-mailing asking, you can indeed now pre-order the Descent MK1 via Clever Training. As always, doing so via Clever Training helps support the site. Plus, if you use the DCR/CT VIP program you’ll get 10% back in points that you can use immediately, along with free US shipping. Further, it’ll basically make you awesome.
Thanks all!
Ray,
This is a very interesting piece, will it retain all functionality that the 5X has in addition to the dive computer functionality?
Seems a no brainer to those who are all round active if it does.
Yup, everything!
Like others, I’ll give Garmin chance to prove themselves here, but I’m not ready to trust them yet. Yes, they have experience in critical environments like aviation and maritime, but that doesn’t mean that experience is being shared with the fitness product teams who I’d guess are behind this.
For me the great thing about this is to see how it drives the other players in the “every day wearable” dive computer segment, where the current devices are on par with digital watches from the 1980s in terms of the “in your face” side of the technology. I think this has become accepted over the years as people want something tried and trusted, not gimmicky, but I do think this has led to stagnation as the likes of Suunto have been happy to sit back. If Garmin get this right, then it’s going to drive development as a whole. We’re never going to see (nor would I want) new models every year and updates with new features every few months, and some people don’t want anything more than what’s already available, but things like GPS, colour displays, customisable screens, additional non-diving functionality etc are long overdue for some of us.
I alluded to this above, but in addition to the concern about Garmin’s reliability in this arena, I think this kinda falls under the Fenix Chronos area. Just how many $1,000 and $1,500 watches are they going to sell? My opinion is that nothing much has happened in the dive technology world for awhile that would require an occasional recreational diver to need something more than a $300 computer. YMMV I still dive a Conshelf 14 that came out, when, in the ’70s? But, you can still buy them new. Found one new in the box on ebay two years ago for cheap! In fact, you can buy a tried and trusted Suunto Zoop for $215 right now. Diver’s Direct has at least 5 computers under $300 and Leisure Pro about 9, some with guages, etc. But, the tech on running/biking GPS watches is changing so rapidly that my Fenix 3hr that I’ve had just over a year seems antiquated. I also like the fact that my dive computer stays in my dive bag with an extra battery at all times and I don’t have to worry about it being charged (something I think has not really been commented on here to the extent it needs to be, how many of us have had to hook up our Fenix for 15 min. to charge before that long ride). Additionally, I think I will deal with it alot better on vacation when I drop my now very used $300 dive computer in the drink versus a $1,500 Garmin, never to be seen again. Just my two cents, but I agree the coolness factor of everything in one place is alluring, maybe not practical.
Hello,
Will it automatcially start the diving mode when ever the user dives in the pool or sea ? or it needs to be started ?
and If anybody free dives will it automatically record that how many ft and mins you have been underwater ?
Thanks
1) No, not unless you press start on the activity after selecting a dive. It’s just that the dive won’t actually start until it detects depth undewater.
2) Yes, it will.
Does it counts the surface time (rest time) upon surfacing from a freedive?
Ray,
Are Garmin planning in releasing a new HRM band to support this?
The swim band is rated to static 5ATM which although would theoretically cover rec diving to 40m it is shy of the 11ATM the watch is rated to and 5ATM is static so I wouldn’t want to go to 40m with one even if it was under my wetsuit and so not subjected to the dynamic forces something like a watch would be (though I think compression folds in the neoprene as you move could feasibly add and ATM or so).
Good question, I’ll ask. I suspect probably not, only because I suspect there’s probably a limited number of people going beyond 40m and not being in a drysuit (who’d buy this watch).
Next time you come to Memo and/or Brussels, please advise I would have taken the plunge with you!
Will do!
Thanks for the great info!
Is it possible to get wireless data on tank pressure?
Guess having air consumption would also be beneficial for computing safe(r) dive profiles
Is that charging port compatible eith F5X?
No!
Correct. The Fenix 5/5S/5X all use the new Garmin 2017 charging port cable. Whereas the MK1 uses a variant of the Fenix 3/3HR charging cable.
Some more informations about Descent MK1:
link to facebook.com
Hey Ray,
Can you please clarify on this. Garmin website states that these functions are available in Fenix 5x but not in Mk1.
Preloaded gym activity profiles- Strength Training and Cardio Training
Cardio workouts
Strength workouts
Automatic rep counting
Auto multisport activities
Manual multisport activities
Kindly check and Clarify :)
Thanks
No wireless transmitter on this model that I can see. That’s a missed opportunity IMHO. Or did I just miss that detail in the specs?
in #s 67-71
It’s also listed at the end of the ‘Tech Details’ section: link to dcrainmaker.com
I wonder if the tech would be that simple; At the very least you’d need a secondary reciever;
Suunto is a 5kHz Low Frequency to work through water Vs something like Bluetooth and ANT+ which are both around 2.4GHz.
NO TANK PODS?
What’s the point of having a Dive computer Watch that does NOT show tank pressure?
What a Joke! I am happy with my Fenix 5X then.
Garmin Descent Mk1 – User Manual
link to fccid.io
link to fccid.io
I was looking for a replacement for my Citizen Aqualand Duplex (battery went dead) and a back-up to my regular dive computer (the old backup crapped out). Plus, when I go offshore, I like adding the exact location where we dive to my logbook. Something more than “deep stepped reef, 8 miles offshore”. I usually drag my phone out and note the spot with it’s GPS.
Now, I can do it all. I’m pretty interested. Being old, I need to see a live display to test legibility, and I need to see how difficult it is to program and to set the mix.
As the owner of a dependable Vivoactive and and old Garmin 800 for cycling, I trust the brand.
Thanks for the review.
Ricky,
I think you will be pretty happy with both! I have found the readability to be fine and changing air/nitro mix to be super easy!
In todays market a dive computer without air integration will not get anywhere. I was very exited to read the specs (i currently got suunto DX a garmin 735xt) until the very last line : air integration : no. No thx
Without wireless tank integration, the price point is obscene. You can buy a better dive computer for 1/5 of the price that does at least as much, and usually even more. As much as I love my Fenix3HR, I’ll stick to using it with IQ dive software until they add air integration AND bring the price into line.
battery life is improved!
Thanks for the report, Ray. I find this very interesting. As a runner and also a diver on the NY Aquarium dive team, a device I could use for both is pretty tempting. Also, if it really registers your dive at 1′ instead of the more common 5′, that would be very appealing, since I’m often working near the surface and my dive profile shows all that as having surfaced, sometimes splitting one dive into two if I’m there too long. Once they have AI (hopefully working with the same transmitters Oceanic and Shearwater are using) I’ll consider it.
Another great review, have bought several running watches based on your reviews but am also a diver and was annoyed at the lack of connectivity of dive computers so this could well be the answer – especially if I can use it for the other sports which I do.
Thanks for the great review. Was thinking of upgrading my F3HR to the F5X and also planning on learning to scuba this summer so this is perfect!!
I do have a question though, and it’s more about cosmetics than function. Currently my F3HR only leaves my wrist to charge. I am never without it (charges overnight). I do a lot of extreme activities as well as yard work and the like and since the F3HR has the Sapphire lens….only the band and top of the bezel really get a beat up look.
With the Decent, one bezel is SS ($999) and one is Titanium ($1.4k). Is the Titanium really worth the $500? I don’t care about the strap. I’ll cjange it anyways but if the Titanium will survive longer….. might be worth it to me as again…. it never leaves my wrist….oh…. and I am a corporate executive who has to keep up appearances….. thoughts?
Seamus- I have been beta testing this amd am pretty hard on watches as a paramedic. I noted that the stainless case collected a few scratches, but not super noticeable. I haven’t had any that ive noted yet on the titanium version. The quick changing of the bands is super nice and helps go from casual to dressy quickly! Hope that helps!
Thanks Heather. My F3HR has the SS bezel and not sure if it’s because of the darker color or what but it shows a lot of scratches (IMO). Maybe the Titanium then…. just wish I could go without the Titanium band. Probably knock some $$ off.
Here’s my F3HR…..
FYI, the case is also Titanium:)
Seamus- I have been beta testing this amd am pretty hard on watches as a paramedic. I noted that the stainless case collected a few scratches, but not super noticeable. I haven’t had any that ive noted yet on the titanium version. The quick changing of the bands is super nice and helps go from casual to dressy quickly! Hope that helps!
Is there any news on the release date? We are a month from the announcement date and garmin website still says 5-8 weeks, would think they want to get this on the shelves for holiday shopping.
Will this watch also support multisport/triathlon profiles? It supports swimming, cycling and running sp It would be perfect is there is also a tri-mode..
Yup, they support those profiles.
Hi Ray,
Really appreciated the review here and the one you did on the Garmin Virb 360.
I’m a bit confused as to whether the ANT+ will operate while diving. ie. Sending the data to the Virb 360
for inclusion in the overlays? Also, could you let me know what data can be / will be transmitted?
Thanks so much!!
John
It won’t transmit any data live to the VIRB 360. It can retransmit HR to it, but realistically it won’t capture that since the HR would only got about an inch underwater.
The good news though is that you can just merge the files easily afterwards in Garmin VIRB Edit (free app) to pull in your Descent file.
The one thing I don’t know though is if it properly handles the dive depths in the VIRB Edit suite. If it doesn’t initially, my guess is it won’t take long for it to.
Hey Ray. Any update on availability? Garmin websites say “5-8” weeks still. Does “early December” mean “sometime in January “? ;)
Just checked with them (all in the timeframe from your comment till now). They are still on track to ship units to retailers/dealers in limited quantities here in December.
Typically Garmin.com fulfills orders last, after retailers/dealers, and that’s going to be the case here as well too – which is the stated January timeframe.
they’re running ouf of time for that December delivery ;). Oh well, I knew it might be a delayed one.
Thanks, one of NZ shops will have it soon, so now the question is – should I buy it? I have Fenix 3 and I want to upgrade (for nav + run power meter mostly), and I do dive and have no diving computer. Seems like a logical choice.
Hi! I came across the following information in another website and I think it might be misleading.
As I understood the mk1 can do absolutely eveything the 5X does but then I come across this article. Maybe the betta version of thr watch doesn’t do it? Or maybe it can be added buy downloading new software?
I appreciate the mk1 owners to check this one for me since I think that strength training is important for me.
Here the article of the missing features:
FENIX 5X VS DESCENT MK1
You mentioned that Descent doesn’t have quite the same amount of fitness/training features as the Fenix 5 tell me more! The following might sound like a lot but considering the number of diving features gained and the plethora of fitness features still available it doesn’t make an impact on how powerful this watch is. I’ve listed the specs below for a full breakdown of all features available.
The Descent Mk1 won’t come preloaded with profiles for Strength, training and cardio training. It also does not come with Cardio workouts, strength workouts or the automatic rep counting feature.
In regards to training and planning/analysis features the Descent won’t come with auto multisport activities or manual multisport activities.
For running features, the Descent Mk1 has almost all the same except Vertical oscillation and ratio (the degree of ‘bounce’ in your running motion and the cost-benefit ration with stride length). Ground contact time and balance (shows how much time, in the running motion, your foot is on the ground rather than in flight and lets you check your running symmetry) and Stride length. *All of these require the compatible accessory from Garmin.
Additionally, the Descent Mk1 does not feature the FTP (Functional Threshold Power) feature that is available with the fenix 5X for cycling.
As noted somewhere above, the strength piece were only very recently added in a firmware update to the Fenix 5X units, and as such haven’t yet been added to the MK1, though it sounds like that’s the plan.
The other items listed are simply incorrect. It sounds like the person didn’t know how to configure those.
Do you know guys, whether it also support multisport? Will I be able to use it during triathlon activities?
oops, hit the search and found what I was looking for. Should have started with that. :)
Any news on the releasedate yet? If Garmin wants to make it before Christmas… they’ll have to hurry ;-)
A few weeks ago they told me 12/22 … but I’m not so sure I believe that
Bad news! Called Garmin Benelux last friday. They told me it’s going to be early january :-(
I guess i’ll be taking the Suunto on vacation one last time…
Grtz,
E10
Thanks for the information! :(
Gonna buy it anyway…
Beter late, but working properly than now with bugs.
Any update on timing? Garmin website niw says 3-5 weeks
Any update on timing? Garmin website now says 3-5 weeks
Oh my hat! I am SOOO excited i am actually having vapours! This is the Fenix I have been waiting for since forever!
Order placed via CleverTraining.
When Air Integration arrives, there will be no other sports watch worth talking about.
Thanks for the review. As a Fenix 3 user and scuba diver, I love the idea of the dive watch. I wear my Fenix while diving (because I always wear it), but rely on my air-integrated dive computer for dive info,depth, compass, air, etc. I am at the point where I have been considering updating both my watch and my dive computer. If the Descent Mk1 had air integration, it would be a no-brainer. Alas, I’ll be waiting for the Mk2
Hey Ray, the watch finally arrived and it’s amazing.
But – many apps in the IQ store are not available, including Garmin’s run power. Do you have any information on when they’re gonna set the Descent properly there? I understand it’s a simple checkbox since the unit should be a Fenix 5x in regards to the IQ ?
Where are you located / where did you order from?
New Zealand, ordered from the local Freediving shop. Arrived on Tuesday.
I ordered from Amazon this morning (third party seller — Dolphin Scuba Center) and it’s being delivered on Friday! Can’t wait.
Have you tested the compass? I can’t get a straight answer out of Garmin as to what the actual compass resolution and accuracy is. They claim it’s better than their previous devices, if it can hit a repeatable 1 degree then we’re in business.
Geeft hij ook de safety stop aan in GC
En wordt er met de tijd ook lucht geïntegreerd??
Heeft de Descent Mk1 vooraf geladen profielen voor Kracht, training en cardiotraining, Cardio-workouts, krachttrainingen of de automatische herhalingstellingsfunctie & multisportactiviteiten
En volgens mij bevat de Descent Mk1 niet de FTP-functie (Functional Threshold Power) die beschikbaar is met de fenix 5X om te fietsen.
Verticale oscillatie en ratio (de mate van ‘bounce’ in uw loopbeweging en het kosten-batenratio met paslengte). Grondcontacttijd en balans
Klopt dit Ray, dat de Descent MK1 dit niet heeft, en de Fenix 5X wel allemaal
Groet Alex Kramer
Finally got a straight answer from Garmin, they said it’s the same as their other models. 1 degree resolution, but only 5 degree accuracy.
Really helpful and much appreciated.
Thanks and good luck with the island thing.
Ray,
Do you think or have any idea if they will ever make this air integrated? If so I would buy it in a second, until then I wont.
Not the MK1, it lacks the hardware to talk to the majority of air providers out there. That said, they 110% get that folks want it. I talk a little bit about it up above and the issue they faced in picking a horse.
So a little late to the game here and since I just purchased, probably should have asked prior but…… does anyone know the titanium rating for the MK1? Specifically it’s hardness as I wear my current HR3 daily (I mean I never take it off) and it get’s beat up quite a bit. Since I just spent a fortune on the Titanium one, I would love to have it stay nice and shiny/scratch free for as long as possible…..
Thoughts?
Not sure of the hardness, but I work on an ambulance and have had mine for somee time as a tester and have a couple of very small dings that you really have to look for on the top outside edge. Hope that helps!
Thanks Heather.
How does one become a “tester” for these things….
Thanks for the Great review. Could you please specify which information do we have on apnea hunt Mode. Is all the info on the same page? Thanks!
Carlos
Changed charging craddle to F3 type? can it be nowe charged while using on trail running with gps and maps? It looks like it is a UPGRADED Fenix5x for ultrarunners. The only thing that keeps me from buying F5x (beside price ;) ) is lack of recharging possibility when running.
Next thing, i am afraid that it will be forgotten like Epix and no new features like for F5x (despite the same platform Epix=F3)
Ray mentions above that this is essentially a Fenix 5x. Now that it is out, can anyone answer if the Fenix 5x updates are being pushed to the Descent on a regular bases? Considering updating my Fenix 3hr and between the 5x and Descent. Specifically, has the extended display for use with the Edge head units been pushed to the Descent?
To be fair, on extended display it hasn’t even been rolled out fully yet to the Fenix 5 or FR935. That’s now slated for end of month I believe.
In any case, for Descent it just had a firmware update last week, though…it was pretty small. I think a bigger question will be updates like the Training Load true-up scheduled for early June, and how long that will take to hit Descent.
So I am not even sure where to begin to express my disappointment with the Descent MK1. I just spent $1,500 USD on the titanium version 2 weeks ago. I have dove with it twice (in a pool) and done a relatively light day of yard work with it. The bezel/skirt is already showing wear and it’s so concentrated to a single section, it’s hard not to notice. I truly thought going for the Titanium upgrade would make a difference but it is already starting to look like my F3HR that worked just fine. I could have just bought a decent dive computer for 1/3 of the price.
Don’t be thrown off by the dirty band in the pictures, it’s old so it’s worn.
Does anyone have any suggestion to clean up? Think it could get buffed? Anyone on the market for a slightly used Decent MK 1 (LOL)
Hmm, I thought it’s DLC coated, which should help quite a bit.
I suppose within 2 weeks you could easily return it and swap it out for the non-Titanium variant.
We would like to look into this more, could you please email at social@garmin.com using the subject line ‘Descent MK1 – Seamus’ so that we can talk to you directly and work with you on exchanging your device?
Thanks Heath!
will do.
That is very surprising! I have been a tester and have the titanium one for some time. I have also not jeard of any of the other testers having this issue, and several of us have jobs that are pretty abusive to watches!! I would suggest contacting Garmin about this!
And this is why I ask…. you folks always have the best answers. I was thinking about reaching out to Garmin so that will be the plan. I will update when i hear back.
Yeah Heather, you were the one that sold me on getting the Titanium upgrade. You had said it was pretty tough and the like….. we’ll see……
I sent your experience to one of the project managers I know. We’ll see what happens!
Would it be likely/possible that Garmin would update this with Garmin Pay?
Is it just a firmware update or does the watch lack the NFC chip to allow them to do it?
Lacks the NFC chip/hardware to do it.
Thanks…
Hey Christopher! That’s a great suggestion! I’m not sure there will be room in the device to add this ability with wverything else that’s crammed into the case, but I will suggest it! I think that would be a great feature!!!
Thanks Heather. That would be great.
I don’t suppose you know, but I had an issue with my Fenix 5X optical HRS becoming covered in cracks. Looks like this isn’t an isolated issue. Do you know if the same sensor is used in this or if this problem has been rectified?
Well, Shearwater just cane out with a watch size computer.
No wireless air integration for 1k ? when do they plan to release a tank pod.?
Does anybody know if descent MK1 is fully compatible with stryd?
I am using stryd with my Garmin forerunner 935 and I am very happy with it. I can see power through the connectIQ data field in my watch and at the same time I have stryd calculating pace and distance which I see during running.
Having in mind that descent MK1 is actually a Fenix 5X, and that Fenix 5X is fully compatible with stryd (as Garmin 935 is), can anyone confirm that I will be able to use stryd with the descent MK1 the same way I now use it with 935?
Thanks.
Does anybody know if descent MK1 is fully compatible with stryd?
I am using stryd with my Garmin forerunner 935 and I am very happy with it. I can see power through the connectIQ data field in my watch and at the same time I have stryd calculating pace and distance which I see during running.
Having in mind that descent MK1 is actually a Fenix 5X, and that Fenix 5X is fully compatible with stryd (as Garmin 935 is), can anyone confirm that I will be able to use stryd with the descent MK1 the same way I now use it with 935?
Thanks.
(Sorry for the double post)
I’m considering this as my next dive computer. I’m a DM though I don’t scuba too much and mostly do freediving so it would mostly be used for freediving. I spend upto around 2 hours in a 2°C water on daily bases for work. Does anyone have any experience of using it in cold water conditions? I’ve never had a Garmin watch before so I would like to know from anyone who has the Descent MK1, or has had it for some time, if Garmin regularly pushes out some firmware/software updates?
Updates are regular, but delayed few months from Fenix family. But if you’re looking from the pure diving perspective – I’d go with link to shearwater.com
So… DCRM, as one who is planning a climb of Everest in a few months time, whilst actually diving off Koh PiPi, training for some road races and also exploring Myanmar and Laos…. whilst also needing a daily driver for the job that pays for all of this… which would you get? Fenix 5x+ or the Descent.
Thing that makes me scared is the “MK1.” #feels for us original Fenix buyers!
What’s actually surprising is the lack of PulseOx on this unit… it would have actually been useful!
I’d go 5X+.
Unless you dive a crap-ton, I think you’ll get more bang for your buck both short and long term. I somewhat agree with you on concerns with how much the MK1 will keep up long term. Obviously there was a massive firmware update last week, but that was basically the most notable update since release.
There is ONE nice feature of a “normal watch” however… tis good when you’re diving at different altitudes or have some decos and want a computer to monitor your No Dive Surface Interval… that it doesnt’ look like you have a PipBoy strapped to your arm when you go for a bowl of noodles in town lol. (Actually, does the Garmin have this feature?).
Ah well, guess I won’t retire the Shearwater just yet.
What truly beggars belief is how Suunto seem to have been caught asleep at the steering wheel when they’ve had such a HUGE lead in the market for DECADES!
I had the watch for 3 months. I used it all day everyday, loved the features. I even dove with it a few times, charting my tank and free dives on a trip to Greece was amazing. Then the watch failed…..
I was crewing a boat in a race off of Ventura, CA when the watch band snapped…and overboard she went! The band snapped at my inner wrist somewhere between the clasp and the 2 keepers holding it closed. Can not believe this happened!!! I mean for a watch of this price that I assume is designed to take a beating…..to just fall off my wrist!!
I know what your thinking, and I saw the watch hit the water with the quick releases intact on both sides of the watch housing. After a lot of back and forth with Garmin they have offered me a discount on a replacement that is completely insufficient.
Hi
Given the descent mk is based on the fenix 5x do you think there will be soft ware updates to either to allow music on them or a new version of the descent?
I wouldn’t expect the existing version, since if that was the case they’d have added music to the base Fenix 5X.
komt er een Descent MK2 met alle update,s van de fenix 5x plus met GPS, GLONASS en Galileo waarmee je gegevens in veeleisendere omstandigheden beter bij kunt houden
Hi there,
Just one question : let’s say you want to static apnea in a shallow swimming pool. Will the timer down starts or is there a way to manually start the timer ?
Best,
Franck
If you’re using this over a wetsuit (so the integrated HRM won’t work) will it work with a chest strap HRM for freediving. Thinking like around 16-20m depth. Does Garmin have any support for heart-monitoring while diving with this watch, since typically you’d be wearing a wetsuit in all but the warmest locations.
No, generally that’d be too far underwater to make the connection (it’s usually about 3-4cm), unless you hold up the watch to your chest. But I don’t remember if that module (ANT+ connectivity) is even enabled underwater in dive mode.
I was curious about that so I asked Garmin if it would work (under a drysuit). They said it wouldn’t so I never bothered to try.
it’s not – when you enable the HR from the strap – heartrate reading disappears from diving fields.
Great review. I just wonder how it is for running compared to Fenix 5S? I´m mostly interested in the distance, speed, average speed GPS, maps while running.
// Fredrik
Great review, much appreciated. After reading I went to Clever Training website to try and buy the watch but it says your 10% off coupon code is not valid on this item. Is that correct or am I doing something wrong.
Thanks!
Hi Mark-
Garmin restricts the coupon code usage on this item. However, with the VIP bits (link to dcrainmaker.com) you do get 10% back in points, which you can then spend immediately for something else. So that’s quite a fair bit in points for things like accessories or what-not.
Thanks for the support!
Ray,
I’ve had a Fenix 5 for a while and am getting to the point of thinking of upgrading, maybe to the MK1. Comments here are generally supportive / happy with the watch. My real question is how soon do you see an MK2 coming out? Getting a new watch will be much more want >>> need, which means I can wait for an MK2 if it is coming down the pike any time soon (especially if it has the pulse-ox that the 5X+ has). A triathlon / diving watch with a pulse ox, talk about a whole lot of awesome stuff I don’t totally need…
As a physician, I can tell you that unless you have a SERIOUS respiratory condition, PulseOX is mainly wasted on us near sea-level.
If diving, oxygen monitoring takes a different form – in the mode of Close Circuit Rebreathers, which is night-and-day with most standard SCUBA systems. Again, PulseOX is generally useless in this situation.
FYI you should be looking at a constant 98-100 saturation, even under extreme physical activity. You’ll only notice pulseox falling in sustained high-altitude conditions.
Hi, do you know who manufactures and sells the test computer chamber you have pictured in your article?
Thanks,
Dave
I had it custom built about 4-5 years ago. It’s pretty pricey though.It was made by the Bonica dive crew: link to bonicadive.com
HI!
I own a second unit of Descent MK1 after an RMA. I’m normally a trail runner, that’s my top activity from October to June, along with some indoor cycling, tec… Although in summer I will also include some swimming and….scuba diving. That’s why I decided to go for a one for all watch. I could to trail run early in the morning and afterwards a scuba dive.
However, I had a problem with the first unit, that is unfortunately replicating in the second unit. It seems that after some dive activities the watch starts to give some wrong readings on trail runs. The accumulated height is giving wrong readings when compared to my same previous activities with the same watch, and previous owned Fenix 2 and Fenix 3 and of course when compared to other friends’ readings. Distance seems to be ok, as well time, etc.. it’s the total meters climbed that’s wrong.
It looks like a design issue, have you heard about anything similar? Have you been able to see these errors by yourself? I use it intensively for trail running and it’s very annoying not having the right readings. It’s always a matter of giving less meters than it’s supposed.
Accumulated height should get updated once it gets uploaded. Then it should be more accurate as it’s based on topographical data instead of just on the internal barometer. I think the barometer basically gives you an estimate of vertical change during the activity, but then elevation data from the actual GPS route is used once it’s uploaded. At least that’s the way I understand it. So if you’re just looking at the watch right after a run, compared to previous uploaded runs of the same route, it might be different. Once they’re all uploaded should be the same. I think.
I’ll be taking mine freediving for the first time in two weeks, so I’ll have to see what happens to my normal stuff after. I am really liking the watch so far.
Hello,
any news on a Fenix 5 plus based Descent MK II? Now that Garmin released the Fenix 6 series, the 5 plus should be stable enough to make a diving spin off.
Love the reviews.
A Descent Mk II with Air Integration and based on a Fenix 6X Solar would be perfect, as it would have the V3 HR optical sensor capable of working while swimming.
Have you tested the GPS & HRM accuracy?
And would you recommend the Descent MK1 to multi sports enthusiast?
I’m mostly doing sports climbing, trekking and running, but also interested in swimming and free diving. So, Descent would be best choice for my every sports.
Actually, I’m waiting for MK2 model which might be based on Fexnix6x.
Hi,
Based on my personal experience, I would not recommend MK1 for such use. It’s a great watch for diving or multisport but is not performing well while combining diving and multi-sport. At least if you care about barometric height readings. After different tests with different units and 2 RMA’s. Somehow after diving the sensors get confused or blocked and the unit does not mesure correctly ascent metrics. I finnally changed it for a Fenix 6X pro and I got back to my old diving watch. That’s my personal experience.
Thanks for your advice. Then, does Descent works perfect if I don’t do dive and multisports consecutively in a same day?
Usually I don’t do it in a row and if it is right, Descent would be perfect match for me.
Actually I’m waiting for MK2. The only concern is weight and price. It may be too heavy for running, right?
Hi,
It doesn’t matter if it’s the same day to not. Unless you reset the device to factory settings, it will give you wrong cumulative height readings. I was doing one day scuba, the day after (or every other day) trail and the readings were consistently wrong. Too bad for such a great device.
Rgds,
Pablo
I love your reviews of all things tri!
Do you know if the MK1 charger is compatible with the Fenix 5x? I ask because I would like a charger that fits on my 5x more securely so that I can charge it while riding my bike, and the MK1 charger looks as if it could better accomplish that goal vs. the easily unplugged stock 5x charger. Thanks!
No, unfortunately totally different charger. :(
That said, this one does work: link to dcrainmaker.com
I returned this week from a week long live aboard SCUBA trip where I completed 22 dives and a few other activities while trying to use my Descent MK1 but it failed. I think I have found either a bug with my device or a bug with the Garmin system of syncing data to the phone. Incidentally there was no internet available on the boat or cell service where we were. It was like Gilligan’s Island but with AC and really good food.
After 7 dives and 3 kayaking activities over 3 days without internet my watch quit saving dives or anything else. I just got a message with “saving” with the spinning wheel for hours at a time. I had to forced power off the watch to get it back. After 3 dives of no saving, I deleted all older FIT files in the Activities folder. Then it saved 7 more dives. This was now day 5. After that it would no longer save again regardless of what I did. It acted as if it was full, at least in short term memory, but the device was only about 25% full when I looked a the properties in File Explorer when I had it connected to my laptop. I tested this by trying all the other activities loaded on my watch. None of them would save. I kept getting the “saving” message with the spinning wheel. Once we got back to port and internet, I put all files back in the activities folder, connected to the internet, and synced. It took several hours to sync but once it was done I could save activities again.
Is this an issue will all Garmin watches? Do they get “full” if they can’t sync to the internet? Is there are work around for this? I can’t believe I am the only Garmin user who does adventures off the internet grid. I have done several in the past over a couple days without issue but this has been my longest off grid time since I became a Gamin user.
Is this something you can test and validate with your vast selection of Garmin devices and can you push Garmin for a fix. I emailed customer service but have not received a response nor do I expect one at this point.
Anyone have any idea when the Descent MK2 will be coming out? It is almost about time for me to upgrade my Fenix 5 (well, its working fine but I WANT) a new watch, and I’m trying to patiently wait to see if the MK2 comes out any time soon. I’m a vacation diver without a real need for a diving watch so it isn’t worth buying something dedicated, but if they put a reasonable premium on top of the Fenix 6 I’d buy one…
Do you have the review of the new version MK2? Thx
Will there be an MK2i review?
Dear DC,
Could you do a review on the MK2? I wouldnt mind not reviewing the diving part since all other reviews available are geared towards the diving part, I would like to know from you how it pairs up as a daily fitness watch!
Regards,
Menno
Hello Ray (I had to Google that),
I hope all is well.
I find your videos reviews very informative, and trust worthy. And because of that, I was wondering if I can trouble you and ask for a Garmin Descent G1 review?
I’m trying to weigh it agains the MK2, from my perspective, as an Ironman distance triathlete and a technical diver (With a main fully dedicated technical dive computer – Shearwater Perdix – but looking for the Garmin as a backup). And sporting a Forerunner 935 which meets all my triathlon training needs.
Keep up the good work. And thank you very much.
Hi!
Has anyone tried the MK2 yet combining diving and trail running activities? I had to return my MK1 since the barometer it was not accurate at trail running, if used after diving activities. The only way to fix it was restting the device to factory defaults everytime.
Not handy if you’re diving one day and trailrunning the day after, lime me.
I’m curious to know if this has been solved in MK2
Thx
I can happily confirm the mk1 is a dependable work horse. I put more than 300 dives on it over a 3 year period (freediving) and it never missed a beat. Took some heavy knocks on rocks too. Still going strong as a backup computer.