Today, Garmin announced their latest cycling unit – the Garmin Edge 1000. Unlike some expectations however, the Edge 1000 doesn’t directly replace the 15-month old Edge 810, but rather, is meant to serve as a higher-end tier than the Edge 810 – given its price point of $599.
The unit adopts a new larger and higher resolution screen, first seen in other Garmin products over the past few months, as well as packs in communication technologies such as WiFi and full Bluetooth 4.0 capabilities. Finally, on the pure cycling side, it adds in integration with Shimano Di2 shifting while also incorporating many of the features of the Garmin Touring from mapping to automated route generation.
Before we get into the details, note that I’ve had very limited time with the unit, essentially enough to walk through some of the functions for an hour or so by myself, but was not able to go out for a ride yet. That’ll happen in the following weeks. As such, keep in mind that what you see is beta screens and subject to change. And further, I don’t have any idea how well the unit will ultimately perform. It might be great…or it might be as enjoyable as riding cobbles. We’ll have to see in May or so. Therefore it should go without saying that this is *NOT* a review, in-depth or otherwise.
The Executive Summary Overview:
There’s been a host of features introduced, both small and large. So while I cover all of the major features in separate sections below, let me run through the biggies and the little ones in a quick bulleted form:
Major features:
– New larger high resolution full color screen
– Addition of Shimano Di2 gearing information
– Incoming Call and Text notifications
– Garmin Segment Real-Time Challenges (on device)
– WiFi added to device, full Bluetooth 4.0 chipset
– Full and detailed maps included now
– Added round trip routes (basically a ‘give me a surprise route’ option)
Minor Features:
– Ability to change display to a horizontal orientation
– Downloads satellite data ahead of time to speed acquisition to a few seconds
– Increases data fields to 10 fields per page, up to custom 5 pages (+ lap summary, compass page, map pages)
– Ability to edit saved workouts on the device itself
– Added training calendar support (for scheduled workouts)
– Added support for displaying PR’s in a menu
Not really features per se, but core things of note:
– Edge 1000 price is a wee bit high at $599
– New speed/cadence combo sensors, standalone speed-only, cadence-only sensors
– New Edge Remote, for trigging laps/page changes
– New Edge out-front mount
– Unit now uses micro-USB (like cell phones), as opposed to mini-USB like past Edge units
Ok, with that all covered let’s get through some quick sizing and overview things. After all, one of the core things is the new size. To start, let’s take a look at how it compares to the previous high-end unit, the Edge 810:
As you can see, it’s a fair bit taller, but not really much wider. The screen size is increased along with the resolution. Additionally, the user interface home screen now takes on a bit of an Android home screen look, with a much cleaner icon (with labels) driven approach.
Looking at the depth, it’s quite a bit thinner, though, that doesn’t tend to matter to too many people at this point since the devices are already pretty thin.
Here’s a shot just holding it up:
The bottom of the unit still retains the ability to add a MicroSD card for additional storage (generally used for additional maps).
And as I noted above, they’ve changed from mini-USB to micro-USB for the charging and USB download. You can also download via Bluetooth Smart to both iOS and Android, as well as to WiFi access points.
Like all Garmin Edge units it uses the quarter-turn mount system. However, because of the slightly larger size, there might be some issues with certain mounts that were designed for smaller units. As part of my in-depth review I’ll cover which mounts do and don’t work.
With all the basics covered, let’s dive into some of the major features section by section.
Shimano Di2 Integration:
The Edge 1000 introduces support for reading gearing information from the Shimano Di2 platform. This is similar to what was recently introduced two weeks ago by Mio in their 505 model update.
The Edge 1000 will communicate with the recently announced Shimano D-Fly Data Management function, that’ll be available any day now. Shimano’s $80 accessory (SM-EWW01) will plug into your existing Di2 Dura-Ace 9070, Ultegra 6870 Di2 and Ultegra 6770 units. In doing so, it’ll transmit the gearing data via private ANT to the Garmin Edge 1000.
Once you’ve got that all setup and transmitting, you’ll dive into your sensors menu and then pair the Di2 system to the Edge 1000 via ANT. Note that it’s not technically ANT+, as there’s no public profile, but rather, it does this via private-ANT. However, since Shimano is working with other companies beyond Garmin on implementations of the profile, I’d expect at some point to see it ratified into an official device profile of some sort.
Within the Edge unit you can then add the below data fields onto your display pages:
These fields will then display the state of your Di2 gearing. Of course, I suspect for most folks the battery indicator will probably be the most useful field here, as most people already kinda know what their gearing is.
Longer term however, what will potentially be useful is the recording of this data, as well as the analysis of it. As it stands today, Garmin will be recording this data to the .FIT file along with the rest of your activity data. However, there won’t be any way (initially) to view that on Garmin Connect. Perhaps down the road.
It’ll likely be up to 3rd party providers to find a way to enumerate that recorded data into something useful. Some applications already do that today, to a degree. For example, Sport Tracks through the addition of a plug-in has long shown estimated gearing data from cycling files:
In this case, it’s using some special math to determine it, versus with the Edge 1000 data file it would know the exact configuration and gearing.
Finally, note that the Edge 1000 does NOT control the Di2 shifting. While the Shimano system could actually be enabled to do that down the road, today the Shimano platform is only permitting ‘reporting’ of data. In order to enable control, there would have to be some precautions put in place around authentication and authorization of the platform.
However, to that end, the potential is there for example to specify a certain wattage level and then have the bike automatically shift to maintain that wattage. Such a scenario would be of significant use to time-trialists as well as triathletes who tend to maintain specific effort levels for sustained periods of time.
Lastly, Garmin is considering adding Di2 support to both the Edge 510 as well as the Edge 810. They have not yet decided to, but are reviewing whether to add it, based on feedback.
Edge Remote Control:
In addition to the actual Edge 1000 head unit, they’ve also introduced a new remote control that will trigger certain actions on the Edge unit. The small pod is nearly identical to the Garmin VIRB remote control that was announced last fall and just recently made available. Like the VIRB pod, it also features three buttons.
Two of the three buttons are hard-set for marking laps and scrolling forward/backwards between data pages while riding. The third button is programmable from a predefined list of functions.
The unit includes a small LED light that illuminates red or green based on the button presses (and the lights are also used for pairing). The pod runs on a CR2032 battery that should last a heck of a long time (well over a year), and is waterproofed to 50-meters. Like the VIRB remote, it uses a simple rubber band-style system to connect to your handlebars.
Looking at both the Edge Remote and VIRB Remote, it’s basically the same remote under the covers, just different labels for the buttons. Note that while the menu does list the ‘VIRB Remote Control’ in it, this is actually for controlling the Garmin VIRB directly, and not for using the VIRB remote with the Garmin Edge cycling computer.
Finally, at this time the Edge remote isn’t compatible with any other Garmin Edge units. However, Garmin has stated to me that they are considering adding support for the Edge Remote to the Edge 510 and Edge 810. Again, they have not actually yet decided to do so, but are open to listening to feedback there.
Astute readers will note however that Garmin isn’t the first ones to introduce the remote concept. Nope, that honor goes to O-Synce who introduced a remote with their Navi2Coach unit when it came out a year or so ago.
Call and Text Notifications:
The Edge 1000 is the first cycling device that Garmin has introduced call and text notifications on. The unit will display alerts coming from your iOS device (not Android at this time) for incoming calls and texts. This will enable you to see that someone is calling or that a text has arrived, but it will not enable any scenario to answer the call or respond to the text.
Meaning, you can’t just press a button and type a response, or answer the call. That’ll still have to happen within your phone. And, it should be obvious but is worthwhile stating that you must have your phone on your person for these to work. Meaning you won’t get text notifications if you leave your phone at home. This pairing is done via Bluetooth, not magic.
Above, you can see the two notifications being shown. On the left, you see an incoming message showing an alert. While on the right, you see an incoming call being shown.
Note again that at this time these are only offered on iOS devices. They are planning to roll them out to Android down the road, but have no defined timeframe for doing so.
Garmin Segment Real Time Challenges
Garmin Connect will soon be introducing the ability to create segments, and with it, the ability to race those segments in real time. Segments will work similar to Strava segments (but are not compatible with Strava segments), in that they typically define a short chunk of roadway that folks virtually compete on. For example, a half-mile hill climb, or perhaps a short sprint segment.
As in Strava, these aren’t typically entire courses (though, you can certainly make them longer), but on average range in the handful of seconds to couple minute category.
Within the Edge 1000, you’ll initially need to pre-load segments from Garmin Connect and Garmin Connect Mobile ahead of the ride. Meaning, you need to know what segments you want to crush. Sometime this summer they’ll be adding the ability to view nearby segments from the Garmin Connect Mobile app, and then downloading them to your Edge.
Once the segments are on your device, the segment will surface in a few ways. First is just doing a quick check of it. In this mode you can see where on the map the segment is, as well as the profile information.
Next, as you approach the segment it’ll give you a count-down, as well as information about the segment leader’s time (in this case, 4 minutes, 31.82 seconds). It’ll then trigger a ‘Go!’ alert as you cross into it.
While on the segment it’ll show you how much distance is left, and whether you’re slacking or about to become king of the mountain.
While racing the segment you can change the segment time shown at the top to be any of the three: Overall segment leader, your best segment time, any of your ‘friends’ best segment time. In this case, Garmin calls your friends your ‘Connections’.
This is handy because depending on where you live you may have hardcore riders that you’ll never likely beat. So you can adjust it to people that you’re friends with and then race them specifically.
As it stands today, there are no segments available on Garmin Connect. So once they open it up later this spring, it’ll likely take some time before segments start showing up.
Of course, this is all very cool – but ultimately lacks the integration with Strava here that many people would kill for. No doubt Garmin is trying to make a parallel ecosystem with Segments, Courses, Friends, Likes, Comments, and everything else most social platforms have – including Strava.
Time will tell a year or so from now what that picture looks like, and if folks will trend away from Strava or not.
Finally, at present this will only be supported on the Edge 1000. However, Garmin is reviewing weather to add basic segment support to the Edge 510 and Edge 810. It probably should go without saying that I’d suggest if they want segments to be even semi-successful, then increasing the number of devices that can support it would be sorta prudent.
WiFi Uploading, ANT+ Sensor Support, Bluetooth Capabilities
In addition to supporting mobile phone uploads and Live Tracking using Bluetooth to Android and iOS devices, the unit also supports uploading of completed activities via WiFi. This is similar in functionality to what was introduced on the running-focused Forerunner 620 last fall.
You’ll setup these WiFi networks using Garmin Express (which is the new desktop software for configuring all Garmin devices), and then the unit will automatically connect to them when within range of them. You can save a ton of WiFi networks, and select up to three networks to be ‘preferred’.
Note however that you won’t be able to use WiFi at a locale like a Starbucks or most hotels, because those typically require some sort of authentication page that you have to agree too. Thus, it’s only for either fully unprotected WiFi access points, or protected WiFi access points with a known password (but not with some sort of ‘I agree’ checkbox).
Next, it should be noted that the Edge 1000 does include a full Bluetooth 4.0 chipset in it. This means that down the road Garmin could potentially enable support for Bluetooth Smart sensors. They aren’t doing so today however, but that’s a key difference over the Edge 510 and 810, which contain an older Bluetooth chipset that is not 4.0 compatible and would not be able to communicate with Bluetooth Smart sensors should Garmin decide to add support for them.
Lastly, the Bluetooth and ANT+ connectivity works in much the same manner as the FR220 and FR620, where you’re able to have both enabled concurrently. There are no limitations such as in the Garmin Fenix/Tactix lineup where you can only have one enabled at a time.
Basemap & Round Trip Routing/Planner
Last summer when Garmin introduced the Edge Touring cycling unit, it added a couple of key features not found on any other Garmin Edge units. Specifically, the lower-end Touring gained the ability to create routes on the fly by just giving it a specific distance that you wanted to ride. For example, you could tell it you wanted a 40KM ride, and it’d go out and find a ~40KM route. Well, actually, it’d find a handful of routes and then let you choose which one you liked.
It was able to do this in part because they added a full map set to the unit. Meaning, that unlike other more-expensive Garmin Edge units, the lower priced Touring actually included maps. Albeit, maps from OpenStreetMap, but perfectly suitable maps nonetheless (as opposed to maps that cost $99 per region previously).
I give that all as background to note that the Edge 1000 gains not only all of the round-trip routing features and random course creation capabilities, but also the base map sets as well. This means that you don’t need to buy any additional maps to use the unit.
Now, I do find the round trip routing pretty cool. I’ve been using it lately on the Touring unit (which lacks even a fraction of the features of a lower-end Edge 500, let alone the Edge 1000), and it’s generally working out well. However, I’d point out that the inclusion of maps on the Edge 1000 isn’t something I’d ‘pay for’. Mostly because, you can do it for free yourself as I’ve outlined here.
Thus, be mindful that if you’re looking at paying a premium for the Edge 1000 over one of the other Edge units – do it for reasons other than getting the maps themselves, since, you can do that yourself for free quite easily.
Note that like the Edge 810, you can still create routes online and then transfer them to the Edge 1000 via either Bluetooth or USB. Below, you can see a route I just transferred via Bluetooth.
Finally, one new feature coming to the Edge 1000 a bit later in the spring (not immediately at launch) is the ability to put the device into landscape mode. This is sometimes better for some touring situations, depending on the handlebar configuration.
Because the firmware wasn’t yet enabled on the device I had, the above shows how it’ll look in a bit of a computer generated mockup.
Beyond the Edge 1000, Garmin has released a bunch of new accessories. Two of which I find fairly interesting, and one of which falls into the ‘ho-hum’ category.
The most interesting are two new magnet-less speed & cadence sensors. One is a speed-only sensor, and the other is a cadence-only sensor. They are also selling however a speed/cadence combo package – but that’s simply the two individual sensors packaged together.
Traditional sensors have required magnets attached in addition to the sensors. These however use accelerometers to measure cadence and distance. Unfortunately, I didn’t get a chance to poke at these in real life, so instead I have a bit of a confusing computer-generated image of how they look. Obviously, as part of my in-depth review I’ll be testing them, and in particular validating the accuracy of them against magnet based units as well.
Now, these are cool sensors – no doubt. Specifically the cadence one, as it’s sorta modeled in the same vein as the Wahoo RPM (Bluetooth Smart only).
However, my concern with buying either unit (Garmin or the Wahoo RPM), is that you’re kinda buying yesterday’s technology here. The reason being that by what is likely the fall there will be companies selling dual ANT+/Bluetooth Smart sensors in these same form factors. Meaning, that if you wait a little bit longer you can get a sensor that’ll last you many years no matter what device you want to connect to it, from your phone to an ANT+ head unit. Obviously, if you need a sensor now – then get what’s on the market. But if you’re just looking to upgrade, I’d probably hold off.
Next, there’s a slightly new version of the quarter-turn mount. This mount beefs up the existing mount a tiny bit, adding a bit more plastic to one section, as well it’s a little bit longer. The previous out-front was not compatible with the unit due to sizing issues (the quarter-turn part is still the same). All Edge 1000’s will get not only the usual bag of rubber quarter-turn mounts for your handlebars, but also the out-front mount.
There’s a bunch of other random accessories that I don’t generally much care about – notably, the different colored rubber cases for the Edge units. Like other recent Garmin Edge units, Garmin is making the rubber protective cases in a bunch of bright colors for the Edge 1000. Just an FYI.
And, there’s already some 3rd party accessories coming out. For example, K-Edge has already released a new Edge 1000-specific mount (it works on all previous units too though), seen below:
This mount is just a tiny bit larger to accommodate the length of the unit.
Product Comparison Charts:
I’ve gone ahead and added in the Edge 1000 into the product comparison tool database, enabling you to compare it against any other unit in the database. For the purposes of keeping things tidy in this post, I’ve just compared it to the Garmin Edge 810, 510, and 500 – which I view as the major ‘steps’ with the Garmin cycling lineup for folks who might be evaluating the Edge 1000. Obviously, there’s the Edge 200 below that – but realistically nobody considering the Edge 1000 is also eyeing the Edge 200.
Of course, you can always mix and match any of the units by clicking this link.
And again, remember you can always mix and match any units from the database and compare them using this link.
My thoughts on the Edge 1000, product choices:
So, what do I think about the new Edge 1000 for my riding habits?
Well, first off, it’s pretty darn pricey. But I suppose that sorta aligns to the customers who would also likely have Di2 installed on their equally as pricey bikes. There’s a big venn-diagram overlap in available cash between those groups.
The screen is definitely crisper, and the unit is far faster than past Edge units I’ve used – simply very quick to respond, and even start up only took a few seconds (all of which could certainly change by final release of course).
The incoming call and text notifications are particularly handy. Not so much because I care to text or call anyone while cycling, but simply to know if The Girl has texted me 28 times in the last hour trying to get ahold of me. Typically the texts would just build-up in my back jersey pocket until I noticed (almost never), and the calls would also go unnoticed. Perhaps every few hours I might do a quick check of my phone, but that’s not always likely. So this solves that.
Looking at the mapping/routing, while the addition of the maps is ‘nice’, it’s hardly a deal-breaker for me. I can do that for free. What I can’t easily do for free however is creating routes on the fly. When I was back in Washington DC, that was of far less interest to me, since I knew just about every route there was in the area. However, living in France now – I don’t know jack when it comes to routes. So that’s definitely useful. But, I can also get that for 1/3rd the price on the Edge Touring. The challenge there being it doesn’t have any of the ANT+ sensor support that I want.
Next, the Garmin Segments pieces isn’t terribly interesting to me personally. But, by the same token neither would have Strava Segments been (to me personally). I just don’t cycle to hit segment scores, it’s not really a triathlete-focused thing to do (where steady and even pacing is more appropriate). I do definitely understand it however, and definitely understand the appeal of it. And I think the implementation appears well thought out with being able to target ‘who’ you want to try and beat.
But I question how useful the Garmin Segments feature will be at least in the short and medium term, and whether users will ‘migrate’ from Strava Segments to Garmin Segments. After all, whether or not either company wants to admit it – it would be a migration. Most people won’t realistically track friends and segments on two different segment systems. They’ll end up on one or the other.
Next, we look at pricing. Right now, at $600 it’s the most expensive cycling computer on the market. And, best I can tell, it’s the most expensive athletic GPS device on the market.
If I were looking at really just wanting a cycling unit that did mapping, I’d probably pickup the Edge 810. It has a $100 rebate on it right now for a bit longer. If I didn’t care about mapping, I’d probably go look at the Edge 500 instead. The trusty little thing is down to $169 until Monday (temporary sale). Making it pretty much the best deal in cycling right now.
Summary:
To start, this is not a review. Not anywhere near it. It’s simply an overview of what’s new. A review will come, but likely not till May or so. Thus, things could change. New features could be announced, or I could find that stability isn’t so awesome. We’ll see.
That said, there’s a lot of interesting features today that I’m curious to see how they work in real-life out on the roads. For example, how sensitive the Segments feature is to actual location on a route, and how well it’s executed in Garmin Connect. Or, how well the uptake is on it in general.
There are also areas that I think long term could prove really fascinating – like the Di2 shifting data being recorded. But, that will ultimately take 3rd party companies supporting reading the files and making use of them. Companies like Strava, Training Peaks, and Sport Tracks, among others.
I’m interested to see if Garmin will do anything with the full Bluetooth 4.0 chipset support. Technically, they could add BT sensor support. That would make it very compelling as a ‘fully compliant’ head unit that could easily go between ANT+ sensor or Bluetooth Smart sensors, enabling consumers to decide which sensor types they’d want to use. Doing so would be a major blow to any company that developed a one-sensor-type only unit (of either standard). After all, I’m firmly in the camp of letting consumers decide which sensor type to use.
Overall, it’s definitely looking like an impressive device – especially if the company can bring all the features to market in a cohesive package that ‘just works’.
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Finally, as always, if you found this ‘first look’ interesting, you can order the Edge 1000 via Clever Training and benefit from all the usual exclusive DCR reader benefits with the CT VIP program such as a 10% discount on everything with Clever Training. In addition, as I talked about the Edge 810 is a solid alternative, especially with the current rebate through the end of May.
By purchasing through Clever Training you support the site and all the reviews and questions I answer down below in the comments section. I’m currently planning a review the first week of June for the Edge 1000 – based on wrapping up some riding in the Pyrenees the last weekend of May to test out the barometric altimeter pieces.
At the end of the day, I’m an athlete just like you looking for the most detail possible on a new purchase – so my review is written from the standpoint of how I used the device. The reviews generally take a lot of hours to put together, so it’s a fair bit of work (and labor of love).
Additionally, I’ve added in all the new sensor/remote accessories from Garmin into the below as well:
The Edge remote allows you to control functions (like data pages/screens, and laps) wirelessly right from your handlebars/drops. Plus, with the Edge 1050, it can now control the bike bell feature!
Thanks Ray, an excellent first look. To pick up one thing…
“Not so much because I care to text or call anyone while cycling, but simply to know if The Girl has texted me 28 times in the last hour trying to get ahold of me”
This is an interesting step along the ‘always on’ society and peoples expectations of your availability as it can present you with a dilemma; do you abandon your training session because the rabbit needs to go to the vet (a noble cause) or now choose to ignore the alerts (you cad).
I use LiveTrack so my wife can see where I am, it gives her peace of mind I’m not in a ditch / having an affair but the one way nature of it is ok for me. I guess I’d just turn the alerts off :)
Mentioning the new cadence sensor is like the Wahoo RPM… I swapped the garmin unit out with the wahoo rpm unit on my 810 and it works… it does not show it’s connected (either did my garmin most times) but I get cadence data ? Maybe the Wahoo unit is not BT 4.0 ? Since it worked I didn’t dive deeper into it.
Hmm, neither I nor Wahoo are sure what you’re seeing there to be honest. I checked with them, and they’ve never shipped any dual BLE/ANT+ units yet for the RPM (the chipset simply isn’t there for ANT+).
In trying it myself, it doesn’t pair with anything. As if only thin air is around. I wish I had an idea what’s going on…very odd.
I have a couple of questions for Ray about Edge 1000 (currently using Edge 705);
1) Does the unit support multiple SIZES of fonts while looking at a map?
I tested the Edge 800 units and noticed Garmin changed characters on its maps from UPPER CASE on 705 unit to lower case. Edge 800 offered three size selections for names of streets, user points, etc., but only smallest size characters were displayed. Very difficult to read…
2) Does the unit show in color the START point of a route? Or, perhaps it displays some type of a color icon? I have suggested this for several years since 705 was introduced – enabling rider to clearly see the START point when zooming out. This is an important feature especially when riding in unfamiliar locations.
3) Does the Altimeter and GPS work well? I found that Edge 800 (tested three units) was very inaccurate with regards to Ascend, % Grade, Altitude and often indicated my bicycle being 30-50ft off the actual road
The PowerTap transmits power, speed, and estimated cadence. By default, all Garmin devices will show that data automatically (as well all CycleOps devices). Well, in fact, just about every ANT+ power-meter capable device will show it all by default.
This was a quite unexpected announcement for me, and one I’ll certainly pass. The only new feature I find interesting is the call/sms notification… but then the unit is almost as big as a smartphone, you could just attack your phone to your handlebar instead of keeping it in your backpocket.
Now the question is, will the next Edge be a direct replacement of good ol’ 500?
I have the Edge 800 and 500. To me, the 500 is the ultimate race computer: light, shows power, records everything for later. I don’t really like looking at anything other than power during a race or hard ride. HR just freaks me out – how can I maintain that leve for long? For racing, right now the 500 all you need. For training rides, I use the 800.
Some great stuff here Garmin. Well done. But will it allow me to upload to Strava without going all the way back to my PC at home? Garmin, if not, grow up. The world has moved on from your mediocre Garmin Connect. Please open up the ability to easily upload after the ride, during the ride, to the site of our choosing – Training Peaks, Strava, whatever. Otherwise it’s just another lame product update. Garmin, your competitive advantages are in your great hardware and mapping, not social sharing and fitness training web sites. And btw, 15 hours battery life is not always enough. It’s a step backwards. Arghhh.
>And btw, 15 hours battery life is not always enough.
The devices are chargeable. Even if you’re riding constantly for over 15 hours, there are chargers that let you charge while you ride.
They could have easily fit a larger battery in the device if they didn’t try to make it that much thinner. Sure there are chargers that would work, but if you’re just doing a long single day ride the battery should be able to last the day. If battery life rated like the 810 then those 15 hours are for a best case scenario without the backlight being on at all. Sometimes on a sunny day the backlight is needed to be able to see the screen clearly and in those conditions I’ve come very close to running out of battery on my 810. (being a bigger screen I’m guessing the backlight on the 1000 is an even bigger drain on the battery)
So sacrificing battery life to make the unit thinner is a bad tradeoff when the 810 wasn’t that thick to begin with.
Agree. Garmin continuously promoting Connect is like Microsoft promoting Internet Explorer. They’re trying to increase marketshare on Connect but in the end it’s going to cost them share in hardware. Additionally, a bit silly calling the data fields “Di2” since other electronic systems could easily provide a channel for gear ratio. Garmin really scored big with the 500, almost by accident, and they’ve been struggling with vision of what these units should be doing. The call feature may be nice but that was sort of dictated by competition from phone apps.
And if you are showing the map page, that will equally suck down the battery. My Edge 800, rated at about 15 hours, will run out after 7.5 hours if I leave it on the map page, even without the back light. If I leave it on a data page, it will easily run a full 15 hours with HR and power meter sensors.
The issue with big batteries is people like me will weight the thing and if it’s 5 grams too heavy, it gets rejected. But on the other hand, it needs to last a double century with decent probability so I’d consider 12 hours reliable life, after a bit of aging, to be an absolute minimum for utility. The thing is the tried-and-true Edge 500 is both light and has good battery life. They seem to have abandoned that market (small, compact, and simple unit with focus on recording).
Hi Frank, I own a Garmin 810 and have set it to upload direct from Garmin connect to Strava. This requires a little bit of software available if you google. In fact it all works seamlessly, I ride, the phone loads from my 810 to garmin connect and then it automatically appears in Strava. Easy ! Just need a new pair of legs and lungs like Indurain and i’m sorted.
Experienced the same thing, but thought that my mind is playing a trick on me.
The battery life is really depending on what screen/page you are watching on the 800.
So i created a screen with 8 fields and barely switch to the map (only if i need navigation or direction and so on) and tadaaaa the batterly-life is amazing :) (compared to running it on the map screen all the time (with 2 additional overlaping datafields)).
Frank. The ability to do this is already available on the 810. If you have garmin connect on your iPhone. Once the ride uploads to your phone you can set garmin connect to send the data straight to your STRAVA account. No need to connect the device to the computer at all.
Thanks for the quick look. Totally agree with the BT/ ANT comment. Always afraid to buy Garmin first model. Had a tough time when the 810 came out… thought my 800 was the ultimate. Look forward to your review & thanks again for all you do for us.
Agree. I have a 510 that finally works and just bought an 810 that kept randomly shutting off. I’m a lot more interested in Polars new bike computer than anything new from Garmin. Especially for $599.
Any feel as to whether the build quality has gone up and does the flap that covers the ports look any better than on the 800/810?
I’m thinking about getting another garmin with a larger format screen, but the GF has had numerous problems with her 800, often with firmware issues that have needed factory resets or waterproofing issues that garmin resolved but took a very long time.
To spend that sort of amount on a bike computer I’d want to know it was going to be a bit more reliable. Obviously I don’t expect as waterproof as my 910, but failing after riding in heavy rain doesn’t really cut it in the UK.
They separated it into basically two flaps, which might help a little bit because they are smaller flaps for those areas and seat a bit better. We’ll see how it works in real life though.
It’s waterproofed to IPX7, which means that it can withstand 1-meter deep immersion for 30 minutes. I’ve tested this in the past with other units, with the flaps open (including the Edge 800): link to dcrainmaker.com
Interesting developments indeed. I guess the touchscreen is still resistive? Personally I’d much prefer a capacitive touchscreen for setting things up and actual physical buttons for flipping through display pages etc.
According to the information on Clever’s product page it doesn’t seem like there is a new speed & cadence combo sensor, if you want both functions you can simply buy a bundle of the two individual sensors at a discount. I was kind of wondering how it could possibly work otherwise! The speed sensor attaches around the hub by the way.
Ray, if you get a chance and you know, can you explain how the speed-only sensor attaches? Based on what I can gather, it appears to have two pieces. I understand it uses an accelerometer and attaches at the hub, but I can’t visualize or understand how it would be installed. Also, I’m not certain there is an actual combo speed/cadence sensor (both units in one housing). It appears that if you want speed/cadence you simply order a combo package that includes both the separate speed and cadence sensors. Thank you!
Correct, that’s my understanding as well. In fact, I’m starting to believe that the combo kit is simply just two separate sensors. It’s part of my clarification list I’m sending over shortly with any remaining items. I’m trying to get an actual photo on a bike to validate that piece.
So the speed sensor on a hub (either?) and the cadence sensor on a crank arm? So finally I should be able to get speed/cadence on my MTB, where a GSC-10, or anything else with magnets, would never work. If you can, see if you can get us some idea of the price for the sensors.
Excellent first look. I noticed you wrote that the Di2 funtion would work with DA 9070, Ultegra 6870 and 6770. You did not mention DA 7970, perhaps on purpose?
The three newer groups use Shimano’s E-tube communications standard, the older 7970 does not. No way they’d spend development resources on an ANT+ transmitter specifically for an already obsolete group.
The new segment functionnality is a really good news.
When I discovered Strava, I hoped it will be generalized to all other system because in bike I think it’s a must have. I’m using it not to compare myself with the others, but with myself and it’s an awesome indicator.
I hope it won’t be available only on new devices…
I really hope this is a catalyst for Strava cleaning up their segments because it’s getting ridiculous now. Fair enough, let people create as many private segments as they like, but the number of public segments that are duplicates, extremely minor variations or completely useless due to errors in original GPS trace are just making the whole system a complete mess. On a recent ride the number of segments topped 200 and I don’t want to scroll through all that rubbish to see how I was doing.
Actually, it is a capacitive touch screen, also with ambient light sensor automatically adjusts screen brightness to improve visibility and save battery life.
Yes, I have confirmed with them that it is indeed capacitive – which is different than all previous Edge units. However, the light sensor has actually been in all previous Edge units, just the implementation of it different (it controlled screen inversion, not light).
That’s what I thought, too, but you’ll notice if you go to the Edge 1000 page at buy.garmin.com that they claim that “Unlike your smartphone, the display is optimized to work with gloves and in the rain³.” I’m sure Ray will cover that in his full review.
Well, it’s indeed different than a traditional cell phone. I’ve already seen that in my rides with rain (actually, all my rides have been in the rain). A traditional smartphone display would be useless, but this had no problems. I’ve gotta break-out the glove bin for my review to show a video like I have for all other touch screen products.
I’d love to see running supported. Not for wrist mounting but I do a lot of running with my daughter in a jogging stroller and currently use my 800 with it. (Use my 620 for solo runs.)
Interesting, that’s actually the first time I’ve heard a fairly valid argument for including the ‘run’ pace metrics. Especially with landscape mode that would fit much better on the stroller.
With the bigger screen and maps the 800 really comes into its own on vacation runs in new places. (Would not want to get lost with my daughter in tow!)
And less weight on my wrist, (although not really an issue with the new 620.)
Question regarding using the 1000 for running. As a triathlete, this would come in handy. I use my iPhone now with an armband and simply use the Nike+ running app. I am assuming the 1000 would still work in this regard?? I assume it would track distance, map route, and track time. Would it not also track pace, minutes per mile, etc? What am I missing when you say it does not work for running. Thanks.
Nice preview, looks like a nice product. I would really like to see it in action in combination with the Virb. Hope Garmin will maken some kind of bundle that makes it affordable. This unit AND the Virb together are way too expensive (for me that is), I think about 800-900 euro’s. If they could make it about 500 euro’s for a combination package it would be great.
Please, Garmin, add support for the remote to the 810. Not all of us need or want the size of the 1000 on something like a mountain bike, but we NEED that remote! Both for lap markers and the Virb!
I think Garmin are losing the plot a bit with these bloat devices – but I suppose this is an attempt to keep the hardware business turning over.
Android and iPhone devices can now do more and more with ANT+ and BLE connectivity. They have better quality screens and you have to carry them anyway. Plus if you mount on your handlebars (not to different to mounting that monster on your bars) then you also have notifications! Plus you can chose the best software, devices to integrate with and where you upload to rather than be locked into one eco system! The only negative at the moment is Phone battery life and water proofing. Once this is nailed then why would you need separate hardware? If the next iPhone had a 2 day battery, water proof and ANT+ connectivity then the game would really change!!
I think Garmin should be working on their App software also and improving integration with other devices and app sites – they day is coming when it will be all about the apps!
Completely agree! You can buy an unlocked iPhone for the cost of the Garmin 1000 which has a smaller much lower resolution screen and doesn’t have anywhere near the processing power. I just can’t believe that a bike computer now costs as much as a smartphone given the complete differences in hardware/software abilities
The price is a bit outrageous, but IMO all of the cycling computers, including Garmin’s, are overpriced. Then again, even the most successful cycling computer probably won’t match a fraction of the sales that one Samsung entry level android smartphone reaps up.
Personally, I was super happy to return my smartphone to phone duty, and actually I like using an old dumb phone with keyboard (the blasphemy!) as my cycling phone: for one, I don’t have to worry about fighting the touchscreen if I have sweaty fingers.
Unless all you do is ride 2 miles per week at a leisurely pace in fair, not too cold, not too warm weather, I can’t really see how you do NOT realize how unpractical smartphones are as head units.
Good point about the touch screen – yes a bit of a handicap with Gloves and Rain!
At the moment I have my Edge 510 which is a nice piece of kit (if you ignore the firmware bugs for now!) and gives me all the info I need – except for notifications! While my phone is in my back pocket it pings and i don’t know if it is an important message or another Facebook invite to Candy Crush!!! So as Edge 510 does not have BLE then no notification features are on horizon, so I now use a quadlock to mount iPhone on bars also, great for view only of notifications as they come in.
I think the point is that the Edge 1000 is completely over the top, I feel that the head unit should just be a cheaper display device, all the hard work (ANT+, BLE, WiFi, 3G/4G and processing) can already be done by smartphones so why not concentrate on Apps using head units as displays? I think Wahoo and Strava are on the right track with the Cheap RFLKT Bike Computer.
At the moment I sync my Edge 510 with my iPhone using the Garmin Connect App, I then use tapiriik to automatically send copy the activities to Strava.
So if Wahoo or somebody else can make a cheap display head unit that looks a little bit more polished than the current RFLKT and if battery life improves on iPhones while running with Strava then I will be converted. Until then I might be tempted by a future Edge 520 as a stop gap if it supported notifications and was not a stupid price.
The biggest problem with using a smartphone instead is that for a majority of phones out there, the GPS receivers get much poorer reception/accuracy than the ones in the Garmin units. A smartphone maybe passable in open flat terrain, but they totally choke in canyons and mountainous areas where even the Garmin units can struggle. Strava is littered with segments with inaccurate distance/elevation data from people who uploaded the segments from a smartphone.
Good to see there’s more people who have made the same, quite logic, analysis I did a while ago!
Back then my conclusion was that Garmin should buy a phone manufacturer! They didn’t.
Splitting display and processing is the solution for the too big size and the the shock and waterproof aspect.
The fysical remotecontrol should have been there some time ago. (I think it existed in the Cateye era) Now it’s time for voice control!
Strange how they keep on coming up with answers on questions that no one asked.
While overlooking things that would be worthwhile!
I love gadgets and bikes, and especially bike gadgets, and this is well executed, BUT… I think now we’re getting to the point where all this is a little much. I would want the president to have this amount of connectivity so he can know he needs to fire nukes back, but thinking the rest of us are that important is kind of silly. And how much engineering are we pouring into a device so we have every metric imagined for every wireless protocol just so 99% of the users can see stuff when really all they need to do is just ride more? Honestly, most bike computers should simply say, “MORE.” or, “IS THAT ALL?”
I remember hopping on my mom’s bike and resetting that little mechanical gizmo on the front hub that counted revolutions and estimated miles. That was pretty cool and all we needed back then. Sure, more is better, but you reach a tipping point where it eventually detracts from the meaning/purpose of the activity.
I think that there are just 2 magnet-less sensors (speed and cadence). The speed sensor has two parts (sensor+sleeve). The combo contains both sensors in the package for better price (as I understand).
1) Does the gearing info only display gear position? Or can you preload your actual gearing to show the actual gear tooth?
2) The gearing displays all have bar graphs to indicate gear with a number. Was there an option to display only the numbers (ie. 39/16, 53/12) to preserve display space for other metrics?
3) Is the segment feature based on a constant pace (not useful if terrain varies) or does it use the leaders real pace for a particular portion of the segment?
1) Yes, it shows gear number, based on first configuring your cassette/chainring sizing.
2) Yes, you can do a smaller data field (half-size)
3) Not sure on that.
If Garmin plays this properly, and enable Segment Real Time Challenges on all the devices, allowing automatic upload via phone and segment notification plus have similar challenges as in Strava all that for free (they will also need power curve, time in zone etc, performance manager) people will move from Strava. I will, and many of my friends will in a heartbeat.
Single most annoying item is not having ability to upload instantaneously to Strava without connecting to the computer, WTF we are in mobile era now. Second is inability of segment notification, there is no single app that would say/notify/vibrate/bip eg. 50m or 100m before segment start/end and let us know the segment is there.
Garmin nailed it, but they need to add few items around power training to their Garmin connect site, current reports are joke no TSS, no IF no performance management chart, no power zones no HR zones, with their resources it should not be a big deal. Garmin connect needs few features and will be really nice, but before all that happens not much will change.
Whoever will make iphone app (Strava segment notification) will have instant hit and millions of downloads.
I think everyone predicting a mass transition off Strava is forgetting that one of the main selling points of Strava (and other social networks like it) is that it’s device agnostic.
A lot of people who buy Garmins actually got hooked by using it on their smartphones, I’d go as far as to say if Garmin is smart and has the cash (honestly I have no idea how much Strava could be worth, but if I had to take a guess, I’d say not much for the likes of Garmin), it should just buy Strava and call it a day.
I’d agree that the acquisition boat has sailed. And, I know Garmin themselves would admit that missing that boat was a substantial mistake. Time will tell whether adding in segment support to their key units will drive consumers to GC vs Strava. I think they’d have to make a concerted effort across the Edge units as well as the higher-end running units (i.e. 620).
The inertia required behind people migrating from one social network to another (fitness or otherwise) is huge. Strava is a lot more established than Garmin Connect on the social side of things and to get people to move they’re going to have to start offering a lot more. Moreover, they’re going to have to massively improve the user interface, because at the moment it looks like a half-finished high school IT project. Case in point, I don’t know many people that train at an elevation of 300m below sea level, so why do the graphs autoscale to that on a flat activity and why are most of the data points chopped out? I know a revamp of GC is in progress and I hope they fix things like that, rather than just a facelift as the ‘/modern’ pages look at the moment.
Another huge part of increasing their user share would have to be offering a free smartphone app for people new to fitness tracking i.e. a revamped version of Garmin Fit. Again, why they haven’t done this already is a bit baffling, it’s an obvious gateway to get people established in their ecosystem. I don’t want to go on a rant here, but you’re doing it wrong Garmin!
>The inertia required behind people migrating from one social network to another (fitness or otherwise) is huge. Strava is a lot more established than Garmin Connect on the social side of things and to get people to move they’re going to have to start offering a lot more.
I suspect with this (if it catches on) that we’ll see most of the popular segments replicated in GC as a way to get the instantaneous feedback, but the main database will still be on Strava. Unless GC has a quantum leap I don’t see where it makes a dent into the momentum Strava has.
Yes, in that regard I think Strava are already shooting themselves in the foot with their complacency. As I commented above, the number of duplicated and erroneous segments is getting completely out of hand in my area and the decent segments are getting lost-in-the-noise of all the crap that people put on there. I know you can star your favourites, but to do for this every place I ride would be a massive ball-ache. IMO Strava should start regulating public segment creation at some point.
I’d appreciate a stripped-down set of segments on GC, but they’re still going to be chasing the social-networking and user base of Strava for some time to come.
GhostRacer a free Android App also lets you know when there is a segment and see the KOM or PR (if you have downloaded it) as a “ghost” to train with or race against, in real time, displaying comparative speed and position audio visually.
GhostRacer downloads “ghosts” (past KOM times) and uploads to Strava from your phone too.
Like Cliiiimb, GhostRacer is also dangerous imho because it facilitates real-time virtual racing on non-cordoned-off public streets. Take care.
The one feature I find missing in the 810 (and I can’t see it has been remedied in the 1000) is the ability to transfer activities from Garmin Connect to the device via bluetooth. You can do this with courses but it would be great to land in an area, find an activity and send it to your device. I like the call notification addition as I get distracted by the phone ringing in my back pocket and then thinking about who might have called me until the next stop.
Hi Ray and thank you for the heads up on the latest Edge,
When you say that the Garmin Edge 1000 has a higher resolution. What resolution are we talking about and what resolution did the Edge 810 have?
In a real situation, how much better is the screen in regards of navigating with a Garmin map. Is the visibility of a route more easily read and can I have a lower zoom level and still be able to read important map information like small roads, village names and so forth.
Wonder if there will be any planned connectivity with Garmin’s Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems in a Presta version. Or connectivity and functionality with the Shimano CM-1000 camera that’s coming out which has built in ANT+. Not that either are critical, but would be nice to see if Garmin is starting to think smarter instead of their historical trend.
I do think the big determining factor in this devices success is if there’s a way to link to Strava, and of course if they enable the Bluetooth.. knowing Garmin, I doubt they will, therefore I see this product being a flop at it’s price… and very few people upgrading from 500, 800, 810’s.
Phones are 90% there, one or two more generations of phones, and Garmin’s cycling business will instantly vanish.
Any sense if the price of the 810/510 will drop because of this announcement? I have the 500 and like it, but to keep my wife in the loop I also ride with my FR 620 and phone so my wife can track me. If the 510 price dropped to the ~$275 range I’d very happily make the upgrade so I could ditch my watch.
The 810 has dropped via the $100 rebate. And the rebate for that unit is on for some time (I believe till the end of May), thus, that could be seen as a new baseline price, but I’m not aware of any pricing changes that have been communicated.
I’m particularity interested if this will fit your awesome mount, since I have one in use with my 510 currently, and I’d likely switch to the 1000 if it fitted. If it didn’t would you consider either making another special one, or maybe a shim to bring it further away? Another cool thing you could do anyway is perhaps do one with an integrated Di2 EW90 junction box mount too? I have mine zip tied to your mount currently: link to onedrive.live.com
Ray,
Would you be able to perhaps measure from the center of the mount to the bottom edge?
For the record, if the text and call notifications WERE via magic, I’d definitely pay $600 for this device. I second that it would be nice to see the text of the text message in the notification, but that my be a notification center limitation.
Do you think Garmin will ever launch an Edge Phone? Perhaps a partnerships with Google is in order? The two devices (Edge series and smartphones) are certainly on a converging path.
Garmin actually did have a phone line at one point. It failed. That said, they come really close to it again right now with the Monterra outdoor unit (which does have a bike-mount). That unit is a beast, but runs Android and has ANT+ support. Unfortunately, aside from being a beast, it doesn’t have BLE support, and runs a very old version of Android.
That said, I personally think that’s the platform of the future.
Rainmaker: as always: great reviews….Why don’t you review the bryton rider 60 (about 7 months on the market) link to corp.brytonsport.com
Can compete with garmin 810 (bigger screen, bluetooth v4,…)
Does it record r-r HR data? (You knew I had to ask :-p )
Guessing by you saying the unit is faster the map draws much faster? Sometimes the delays in the map redrawing while following the purple line can get annoying. Hoping this will also make scrolling the map faster/easier so maybe it can keep up with the scrolling.
You mention a higher resolution screen. Is that just cause its physically bigger or is it a higher dpi too? If higher dpi are the taking advantage of it on the map screen by being able to show more detail using fine lines? Maybe more text labels on roads so easier to know what a road’s name is. Sad they don’t decrease the border on the left and right as it would be nice to see more to the sides without going landscape.
Is sunlight visibility better then the 810? Hate needing to use the backlight in the bright sun just so I can see the screen which then makes me worry about battery life.
When is the wifi actually on on the device? What type of Wifi is it? 802.11ac? Sure, the speed doesn’t matter much but if its not 802.11ac and the wifi is connected to your 802.11ac home network then it will slow down your home network.
DI2 gearing data fields show graphics in the data field. Any other data fields do that? Say a line graph for power data, would be cool if the graph could be behind the full number of the current power (well, 3 second avg power)
If segments are just on the 1000 then there won’t be enough people to compete with. Ok, I’m in the DC area where there is enough money spent on bike stuff to open the only Assos pro shop in the US so maybe not an issue here but….
If the device is so expencive and seems to have a more powerful CPU in it, any word on if they will treat it more like an updateable unit that will get new features in the future like their outdoor devices and fenix) and less like a consumer electronic device like the current edge devices that while they get bug fixes don’t really get new functionality?
Eli, only Garmin knows that BUT in the past Garmin updates past units only if their market goals demand it. For example they launch a new product like their Power Meter pedals and they know that no new bike units are due soon, they update the previous products. In the case of the Fenix I think all the updates are due to the original product not meeting market expectations and trying to make it a more competitive product.
So, will many future enhancements come to the 1000? Maybe, it certainly has a better chance than the low-end, lower cost units… but it all depends on if Garmin thinks those enhancements better serve Garmin vs. you.
IMHO the only company these days that really delivers on new features and enhancements to their products is Apple.
David, I know that’s how Garmin has acted in the past. I’m asking if there is any indication they will change. They are releasing a device that’s $200 more then their previous high end unit so maybe its not too much of a stretch that the increased cost will allow it to get new features added like how they’ve treated the fenix watch.
Notice how the Addidas smart run watch keeps getting new functionality added and Mio added functionality to their cycle computers?
Ray, Sunlight: The 810 looks good in the pictures too but I know in direct sunlight you kind of need the backlight on to see the screen well which can greatly cut into battery life. So hard to tell if anything improved
Has Garmin said why no R-R Data? I’d like to see this in an Edge unit or implemented on Garmin Connect to capture any supported devices/HR straps. I’m wondering if there is a reason such as technical, lack of demand or even aversion to giving health advice related to heart rate data?
We’ve discussed it a bit, but honestly, none of the answers really hold water. They have alternated between it bloating file sizes, to only being applicable to a small number of people. Obviously, I’d argue the same is true for running, but yet it’s still there.
Nice writeup Ray- ALWAYS look forward to what you think and say and always support you with my purchase habits! I was just about to pull the trigger with the 810, but this might be a game changer since I was after a larger screen and owning two Di2 bikes, the Di2 integration would be convenient. Do you know if Garmin would even consider any firmware upgrades to incorporate the Di2 capabilities into other units like the 810 or are they going to make me fork over more cash to but into the feature?
I DC, nice review :)
I’m kind of confuse…
Does the device broadcast BLE Smart and ANT+ at the same time?
For exemple, if I have the Polar H7 that will count calories and show me HR during Exercice?
The unit will transmit information via Bluetooth to your iOS/Android device (such as speed/distance/locale/power/cadence/HR) for Live Tracking, while concurrently talking to ANT+.
It does not however connect to Bluetooth Smart sensors, like the H7, at this time. Technically it could be enabled, but it’s not there today.
Thanks for an interesting first look at this new device. As Garmin moves forward with their development it appears that they are ultimately going to cross over into an area where a consumer would need to make a decision, ‘do i need the large Garmin with me or do i need my cell phone?’ A lot of what we are seeing here is available on cell phone apps and it will not be long before a kid in his mom’s basement builds all this into a very low priced app available for iOS and Android.
If we think back to days of the portable GPS devices for your car supplied by Garmin, Magellan, Tom Tom etc, their market share has faded considerably. We’re now getting free map updates for life as a way to promote sales of these products but still we see the sales fall away. Why pay for it when you can use a cell phone for the same function?
Garmin needs to be looking at the market, on most rides people have a cell phone in their back pocket, we don’t want it with us but we have it ‘just in case’. We don’t want another huge device with us that really serves little additional benefit.
I have the 510, it’s small and compact, the only thing lacking is the real time segment function that would be an awesome addition to the 510 and 810.
OK, i’m off my soapbox now, for me, the 1000 is not on my Christmas list this year.
I completely agree with what you have said. I was looking to replace my 500 with a device with mapping and had gravitated towards the 810. However after reading about all the issues that are still present with the Edge 810 I was hanging on for a new device from Garmin. This however is not the device I was hoping for but its give a very good indication of the direction Garmin are heading. I might as well use my iPhone with a Quadlock and use that whenever I ride somewhere new. In fact I might like it that much that I go and buy some Wahoo sensors and a RFLKT and dump the Garmin altogether.
If the price were low enough… and I mean in the hundred-150ish USD range… wouldn’t you want a dedicated device on your bike (or even more than one) so you don’t have to deal with your phone?
Or… it you’re dropping five large on a bike, maybe it should just come with it.
Can’t say I agree with that….. look at the cost of your average smartphone that is of the correct specification to replace say an Edge 810. Over its contract period of say 2 years your looking at a cost of around $1000 much much more expensive than a dedicated unit. The phones battery life sucks when you add full GPS and sensors so are you going to get full coverage for a 6+ hour ride? also you have the problem of getting a phone signal out in the sticks not to mention possible crashes and or theft of a very stealable object.
I might be a touched biased as I can afford both but attaching a smart phone with all the (personal) info you put on the average phone to a bike seem crazy to me!
BTW I carry a small cheap non-smart phone for emergencies which only the wife has access.
I agree – that thing is ENORMOUS. You kind of wonder what’s the point of having a separate device when it’s almost the size (and price) of a smartphone anyway. The whole point for me of having a dedicated bike computer (instead of using the Strava app or whatever) is that it’s small and discrete. I’m normally all for gadgets, but I don’t want the most obvious thing about my bike to be the massive touchscreen on the stem.
Everyone keeps comparing this to cell phones. One big difference is this is not a “Personal Audio Device” per USAT rules. You are not allowed to ride with a smart phone in a USAT race. That is the primary reason I am looking at getting a dedicated head unit for my bike. That said, I don’t know if I need this much of a head unit, but I would probably consider it future proofing.
As far as I can tell it’s a FIT file type limitation (fit_sdk.h: FIT_UINT32 odometer; // 100 * m,) but I guess they could extend it by adding an odometer-wrap counter.
I really hope so. Honestly when I purchased my 810 I hoped they’d add it with a firmware upgrade down the line, because doing so would be trivial for them to do. Its such an obvious feature.
I’ve gone from Edge 500 to 800, to 510 and have been happy with the improvements each time… until lately I’ve recenlty had, and continue to have, problems with the bluetooth connectivity to iOs. Since Garmin recently updated the firmware for the 510 AND the Connect app I haven’t been able to blame specifically one of the other. Spent time on the phone with Garmin support, did a Master Reset to restore the connection only to have the whole issue start back up again. I hope that the bluetooth code for the 1000 is more in-tune with the current version of the app…
As a road cyclist absolutely nobody I know uses Garmin Connect to share their ride data. The Garmin Connect ship has sailed along time ago. Garmin would be much better served partnering with Strava rather than ripping off Strava features. Ultimately they are selling devices, and Strava helps them sell devices so its idiotic to not partner with them to sell more devices.
I probably fall in the target market for this device. I have a di2 bike and I tend to buy the latest gadgets, but this device really adds nothing of value. The di2 integration is nifty but how does that help my ride? Plus I have to buy an additional shimano accessory to get it to work.
This meh release follows the lackluster 510 and 810 releases. The 510 was so bad that I returned it and went back to the 500. There is no compelling reason to buy the 810 over the 800. As for the 1000, I like the screen and the thin profile, but that’s about it. Its certainly not worth the $600 investment. That money would be better spent on a Stages crankarm.
One thing that was not mentioned in this post is the weight of this device which comes in at a porky 114.5 grams compared to 56.7 grams for an Edge 500 and 98.0 grams for an 810. People who buy Di2 bikes and $600 bike computers tend to count grams.
Garmin really doesn’t seem to get it when it comes to their cycling devices. The level of complacency due to almost no direct competition kills me. Give me a device that weighs as much as a 500, with a high res display, and integration to Strava. Thats something I will pay $500 bucks for but this device is D.O.A. until they drop the price. Even then, I’m sticking with my 500/800 combo.
But many, many road cyclists DO use Garmin’s and therefore the data is going to Garmin Connect. IF (huge IF) Garmin got their act together with Connect and had the same and better feature set then Strava there is a chance it could make inroads against Strava since so many are using it anyway and it is one less step and site to view. The problem is Garmin’s dreams for Connect are just that, I see no evidence in the Disaster (with a capital D) of a launch of their new “Modern” look that they are anywhere CLOSE to having a great website that users will gravitate to, at this point it doesn’t even really work.
Just because road cyclists use a Garmin device doesn’t mean they use Garmin Connect. I use my Edge 500 almost exclusively with CyclingAnalytics and Strava. I rarely use Garmin Connect, because Connect is quite poor compared to the rest. Possibly the only thing I used to prefer to use Garmin Connect for was routing, but Strava has made great strides catching up on that.
I agree with Alex, as a 500/800/Strava/TrainingPeaks/WKO+ dedicated user.
I am a professional business strategist and also an avid road cyclist, I think Garmin is making a HUGE mistake not integrating with Strava real-time into their 1000 unit, including notices of upcoming segments, etc. The Strava community is very, very hooked, despite certain issues discussed above. (For all I know, it’s Strava who is not working with Garmin, but the result is the same). These two companies would be so much better off working together. Then, Garmin would re-establish their innovation in cycling units, and cyclists won’t be tempted to migrate to their smartphones to do the same. For Garmin, smartphones are the ultimate disruptive technology, and Garmin must stay ahead of the game to continue to survive in this segment of the GPS market. And we cyclists really want Garmin to succeed and continue to innovate for us cycling nuts.
The point is: Garmin just isn’t going to get a critical mass of users and historical data on segments on Garmin Connect – just ain’t going to happen with their target market of cyclists. It will be link Bing – everyone uses Google, game over. And I think Strava will up its game in response to this Garmin effort to compete and switch users (nothing stands still when competition is involved, I have found).
On the other hand, if Garmin worked with Strava segments, there would be many, many folks that would shell out the $$ for this unit for their training rides (not race – see my other post – weight an issue – stick with 500). In fact, when someone told me today about the Garmin 1000 news, they thought it did work with Strava as that was only natural. When I found out oherwise (thanks, RAY!), I was shocked and disappointed. To the Garmin folks – please listen to this advice or ignore at your peril.
Now, on a related note, it would be great if Strava and TrainingPeaks worked together, too. Their both cloud-based SaaS (software as a service), so should be straightforward.
While I’d much prefer see Strava integration, I do think some folks aren’t realizing the volume of data that comes through Garmin devices to Strava. Or said differently, how dependent Strava is on Garmin data. The amount of data on Garmin Connect for routes dwarfs that of Strava. And while Strava has segments and leaderboards, if the first ‘data stop’ off of a Garmin device is initially always Garmin Connect, than many users will simply stop there.
By the same token, I do think we’ll see better integration between Garmin and the likes of major service-only players such as TP and Strava in the near future….
As far as them working with Strava, it would be good if they could, however it isn’t the end of the world, and I expect some clever individual will work out a way to perhaps create duplicate segments (some sort of web based tool to export/import (maybe even Garmin should do it)). In any case what counts is that once somebody does that in the Garmin world, then you’ll get the real time feedback that’s close enough to let you know if you are ahead or behind a segment.
All my rides since 2009 are on both Strava and Garmin anyway (I expect a lot of folks may do the same), so even if I was to try and create my own segment manually (as close as possible to a Strava segment), then I benefit in both worlds…. more so on the Garmin front since it will be less cluttered, and due to less people using it, I also get a ranking boost on most segments :)
I’m most interested in the new sensors. Did Garmin say if these sensors will be backwards compatible with older Edge units? To be clear, is the cadence/speed combo unit magnet based?
I don’t worry about the sensors not being compatible with other devices in the future as I’m not interested in using my phone as a cycling computer and am happy enough with Edge unit.
Yes, the new sensors are simply standard ANT+ Device Profiles, for ANT+ Speed/Cadence combo, ANT+ Speed-only, and ANT+ Cadence-Only. All of which are supported on recent Edge units. I can’t quite remember offhand if the older Edge 705 supports speed-only and cadence-only sensors. But I know everything since then does (as I use speed-only sensors in power meter testing).
Ray,
Good job on the 1000 pre-review as is all your work.
Just wondered if the separate magnetless speed and cadence sensors will work with the 910xt or Fenix2.
I ride a recumbent which the current Garmin speed/cadence combo sensors will not work nor can be separated.
Secondly, I wondered if the new cadence sensor could be used while running…that is if one does not have the Garmin hrm-run strap?
Yes, the new sensors are simply standard ANT+ Device Profiles, for ANT+ Speed/Cadence combo, ANT+ Speed-only, and ANT+ Cadence-Only. All of which are supported on the Fenix2 and FR910XT.
Since you stated being open to feedback about Ant+ remote support for other Edge units I am saying I’d love to have the option with my 510. Sometimes the swipe function to change pages isn’t very crisp so using a remote simply pushing a button sounds nice! Especially when I don’t really have to look at the unit to change screens or lift my hand off handlebars!
I really really like the inclusion of the OSM maps- especially because they include trail data. I use touring and having mountain bike trails available is absolutely killer.
How is the screen? Is it brighter? Looks more like a phone screen than the older Garmins.
I am also really excited about the remote. Not having to take the hands off the bars, especially during a race or on rough pavement is going to be quite handy.
Funny, I just sold my edge 810 and “downgraded” to a used edge 705 for $145. I forgot how functional the 705 is. Screen seems better to me than the 810 (brighter) and interface is easier to navigate (for me).
Now I do have a fenix2 which is why I downgraded the 810. But wowsa, I can’t wrap my head around $600 for the 1000.
The most obvious take-away from this IMHO is that this is a predecessor to the first Garmin bike computer with a direct cellular connection. Garmin seems (like many other companies) to want to have the Apple type of business model where they control the entire stack from software to hardware to ‘cloud’. Therefore, they’re not interested in developing apps for andriod, rather they’re probably going to release their own flavor of andriod for fitness on their own hardware. It only makes sense, but they’re probably feeling pressure… Samsung already has a waterproof (IPX7) phone that has Ant+ and BTLE built in, they just need apps. Having now seen this device, I don’t think it’ll be long at all until you can buy your garmin edge 2000? 1020? at your local Verizon or AT&T store with a subsidy and/or cheap contract.
My poor English doesn’t let me understand all the tech. features. I hope that the new device would show “power” based on HR, as it does by powercal/cycleops. Technically, it very easily carried out.
By default the speed shown with an Edge 500 would actually use the speed sensor if configured, over GPS. However, the data recorded is from the GPS (kinda confusing, yes).
The primary reason to use a speed sensor is for speed while indoors (such as on a trainer), or, in cases where GPS speed might not be reliable, for example in mountain biking with many switchbacks, you’ll often get unreliable GPS speed. Or, inside a long tunnel.
Do you have a link to something that dicusses that? I.e. can I make sure the speed recorded is from the speed sensor? (By saying “by default” it implies there are other options.)
It’s pretty easy to verify. Just disable the speed sensor and see what happens (take the battery out, take the wheel magnet off). If the 500 is anything like the 800, you’ll see zero speed even when moving. When you tell an 800 that you have a speed/cadence sensor, it assumes that you mean it and will use it to the exclusion of the GPS. I assume that’s because the speed sensor, when working properly, is always more accurate than the GPS (wheel development is less than the typical GPS error).
Actually, that’s not what I’ve seen. On AIDS/LifeCycle last year the speed part crapped out and it eventually went back to using GPS. What I’ve realized is that while you use the speed sensor for instantaneous speed when you upload somewhere else it uses the GPS position data to computer your speed, which is what I expect is The Rainmaker was referring to. But what I find confusing is that if your speed data with a speed sensor is more accurate than GPS data, then it also means your distance traveled via the speed sensor is more accurate as well, is it not?
That depends on how well it’s calibrated. In practice, I see very little difference between GPS and speed/cadence distance (I use software that lets you choose whether to use the number off the Edge or a recalculation from GPS data). The Edge 800 calibrates the wheel circumference from GPS data anyway, so they should be close. How often it does that I have no idea, since the circumference does change a little as the tire wears. Since the circumference of a 700×23 is a little over 2 meters, while the typical estimate of GPS error my Edge gives is at best a little over 3 meters, the speed/cadence sensor in principle should be more accurate, and it won’t suffer from the GPS glitches I occasionally see with the 800.
As for whether or not an 800 switches to GPS, I have only one data point. One day I was traveling about 25 mph down a modest grade and ran over a stick, which popped up and hit my rear wheel, knocking the wheel magnet out of alignment. The speed shown on the 800 immediately dropped to zero, even though I was still moving. This was about 10 minutes out, and I don’t remember seeing a non-zero speed again for the remainder of the ride. Cadence, of course, still showed. But I didn’t pay much attention to the 800 after I realized what had happened, so it may have started showing a speed again. (I’ve also had cadence magnets drop off, but of course there’s nothing that an 800 could replace cadence data with.)
Short version: Garmin Edge units will *display* speed from the speed sensor, but will use GPS for recorded speed, unless GPS speed = 0 (i.e. tunnel, indoors, etc…).
Unlike the Forerunner series which actually has an option to switch between sensor/GPS, the Edge series does not.
Thanks for the clarification. So the distance traveled and average speed I see on the unit are not based on the number of wheel revolutions, but all based on GPS?
Other way around. What you see on the unit for speed is actually from the sensor, whereas what you see recorded is from GPS.
You can test this (if you’re bored), but putting a really high/low value for wheel circumference into the bike profile. And then ride at a normal pace around the block (i.e. 15MPH). The display meanwhile, if using the sensor, might read something like 60MPH depending on what value you put there.
The device is useless without turn by turn voice navigation. One will think that such a simple feature will be in such a costly device, but no dice.
Also Garmin has a monopoly on the navigation market. So it doesn’t listen to such a simple request.
I’d love that functionality but I don’t think its as simple as just adding a new function. Doing text to speech is pretty cpu intensive so would drain the battery more and pretty likely the device would need a faster CPU in it which in general would drain the battery more too. So possible, but very much not a simple request. (battery life for car GPS units is much shorter)
That is completely untrue. It doesn’t require any power. The device doesn’t need to synthesize speech. It can simply stich together prerecorded samples. However this point is moot because Bryton Sport already have their Bryron Rider 60 available which does the that job. Its very curious that it is not available in America. Its a pro poleton device. I sense a conspiracy between Garmin & Bryton to keep the device off american shores :)
This feature along with Bluetooth was the reason why I had requested DC Rainmaker to review the product.
Also I use the following chip set, Sunnto USB ANT+ stick, Rasberry Pi to vocalize my current ANT + sensor data. My only problem is that I don’t have accumulated values. I can sun the entire system on a 2000mah battery for about 12 hours. So I don’t think that power usage should be a problem for Garmin. link to lapis-semi.com
The Bryron does have voice, but only if you have a Bluetooth earpiece.
From their website:
“Clear turn by turn guidance by Bluetooth earphone”
I would prefer an on-screen 150 foot warning to having an earpiece in constantly. I don’t have a Garmin yet but my understanding is that such heads-up notifications are easy to build in.
It is a very simple addition. Eveni have a jerry rigged solution. I seriously don’t have any idea why they haven’t. Warning on screen is already available including notification beep. These are easy to miss because of traffic noise. Let’s think of it this way. A direction change is actually an interrupt delivered to you so it stands to reason it is delivered through some other faculty then sight which is already in use to keep an eye on the road.
I contacted Bryton to ask if their Rider 60, if purchased in Europe, would work in the US. They replied ‘no’, but advised that I hold tight because the Rider 60 product will be available in the US this year!
I would point out that when I asked last year how shortly until Bryton products will be available in the US, they said last summer.
I actually don’t expect to see them at all in the US, for the simple reason that they aren’t there today because Garmin essentially sued them out of the country. Thus, their return would likely trigger further lawsuits (my guess).
Like others I hope Garmin would play nice with training peaks. If they release a 500/510 evolution that will be an ideal compromise for me. Any word or best guess ??
All Garmin devices are compatible with Training Peaks. It’ll be up to Training Peaks to add support for the Di2 shifting pieces. In talking with ANT+ today, all companies that are implementing Di2 related reporting are doing so using the exact same .FIT file standards for it. So data from either a Garmin Edge of the Mio 505 will generate the same exact data from a Di2 system.
Segments will work similar to Strava segments (but are not compatible with Strava segments) –> deal breaker. Looks like I still have to wait for the gadget to support Strava segments.
Although Ray’s “first look” covers the Edge 1000, it naturally led to some interesting discussion here of smartphones vs dedicated cycling computers. There are some essential features which most cycling computers have, including Garmin’s Edge series. Smartphones today all lack some of these features, and most lack all of them (that includes the iPhone):
– long battery life (specifically, long battery life when using GPS)
– waterproofing
– ruggedization
– ANT+ capability (built-in, that is, not requiring a dongle).
– mounts (ie., ability to attach to your bike without requiring some sort of case or adapter)
Any smartphone with all of these features could be the replacement for dedicated cycling computers, as it would then be able to use the main advantage of the smartphone – it’s a general-purpose computer which allows you to do pretty much anything in software.
Many of the new features require you to carry a phone anyway. You could basically solve all of these with a phone case that includes extended battery, ant+ connectivity, ruggedization and a mount, likely adding less weight than the Edge and for way less than $600.
Nexus 5 does ANT+ (via rooting and an 11 dollar app. It works with everything I’ve thrown at it from speed, cad, spd/cad, power (basic, crank, wheel, crank frequency, HRM, footpod, weight scale). So a custom rugged case with integrated quarter turn mounts makes it a killer… if any really sleek app exists but they don’t. And Capacitive touchscreen + more fragile body means it’s not all weather. However, it raises the question. How can the Nexus 5 have everything that this thing does, and more, but is only $350.
I’ve bought loads of Garmin kit over the years but am getting increasingly concerned that Garmin are going down a route of trying to keep all of the generated data within the family of Garmin devices and apps/sites. For example the devices with Wifi can only upload to connect rather than to any target app or site which conforms to a standard API. Various other features seem to becoming more and more usable only in conjunction with connect. This would be better if connect was a good site. I hadn’t used connect for a while (I use Sporttracks and Strava) until I recently bought a vivofit and had a good look at connect for this and for my existing 910XT (I won’t mention the agro caused by Garmin Express). I was shocked at just how bad the site was. I have moaned about Strava’s Run pages in the past but connect makes Strava look superb in comparison. Maybe its a lack of familiarity but I just cant find many of the features I take for granted in Strava. I would love the new Edge 1000 for the di2 integration alone but am concerned that it would try more and more to push me into using connect with all its problems. Better to stick with the current solution which works rather than spend money creating hassle. As a gadget person I’m shocked to hear myself say this – not sure whether I’m getting old or Garmins market strategy is getting really bad but either way its stopping me spending money with Garmin on something i’d normally jump at.
I would say it wont based on the dimensions. Garmin could just come out with a new top clamp to attach to the 3T intergra that would fit the 1000. I doubt they will because I think the #T Integra did not sell well. I love mine and it gives me another good reason not to upgrade the 1000.
As a very recent buyer of the 510 a call to please implement all suggested new areas into it (I’m sure garmin are reading and a further firmware update is fair given the cost and initial implementation issues with the 510/819).
Segments specifically, but I would also buy the di2 box (given I have a di2 bike). Less bothered about the remote, but could see a use for it in TT mode and change whilst on the bars.
People who keep mentioning smartphones don’t understand the target market for this device. For the low end market using a smartphone makes a lot of sense but at the higher end of the marketplace nobody wants to mount a bulky/heavy phone display on their carbon handlebars. By the time I show up for my weeknight group ride my phone is almost out of juice anyway.
I totally understand the target market – it’s me……I spend a huge amount on gadgets and carbon fibre. But I also understand that $599 is too much for this and I won’t be buying – and doesn’t really offer real improvements over previous generations. It’s about the same size as a “bulky/heavy” phone anyway.
Bear in mind that the 510/810/620 have been so plagued with software problems as to be unusable.
The market you are referring to tend to use a 500 or possiby a 510, which have most of the stuff you need.
Given the price point and garmin’s general lack of support for older unit (e.g. Edge 500) I’m very curios how this will stack up with the srm pc8? Hope you will be able to give a good comparison when both are released.
Yup, definitely plan to – though, in looking at the features that SRM has previously announced it will definitely be a significant subset of the Edge 1000 (or, really, any Edge unit for that matter). There are however unique features on the SRM side that are cool for certain situations (some of the team things). However, I suspect most people buying an SRM aren’t doing it for features, but rather stability. Whether or not they can carry that stability through from a previously rather simple device to a more complex device remains to be seen.
this is more and more like a smart phone but less features. If someone can make a iphone4/5 , gallaxy S5 / Nexus 5 case that can mount on Garmin mount then I will take a smart phone route instead of this Edge 1000.
It’s a bit funny, but you sorta hit the nail on the head. Once the iDevices get full waterproofing it’ll really change things.
Right now a number of (mainstream) Android devices have semi-full waterproofing and some form of ruggedization. However, the cycling apps on Android continue to really be but a fraction of what even a Garmin Edge 500 can do. On iOS it’s much better as far as the quality of the apps, however, unfortunately, without the native ANT+ support that many (most?) new Android devices have now.
Finally, looking at the mount, it’s very true. All of the mounts I’ve seen to date really suck for phones (except the Quadlock one). They waste so much space vertically, and in some cases around the phone. I wish there was a much cleaner solution there. It’s funny, for a post I was going to do I went and bought probably 8-10 different mounts off of Amazon. Basically anything I could find. Once I got them all in, I realized just how bad they all are. It as like having a boat anchor on my handlebars.
Respect your point of view but have to say with the amount of personal data the average phone has not to mention the features that allow you to access your bank account, pay bills and transfer money it just seems plain crazy (to me) people wanting to attach them to their handle bars.
Today’s UK (tabloid) press are screaming “Change all your passwords!!!!”
Ray,
Thanks for your response. I can’t believe that no one get it right in term of the case, you should design and start a Kickstarter campain, I would buy it :).
In term of the features, I think Samsung S4/S5 and Nexus 5 can support native ANT+ now. More and more will come. Apple will start doing that if they don’t want to be left behind.
The Wahoo for Android is pretty good now, and I think it would suite many needs such as power meter, cadence , speed, HR etc.
You won’t likely see ANT+ coming to the iPhone. I believe the exact term I heard used from one or two people in the know there on the relationship was “over our dead bodies” (from Apple, RE: putting ANT+ on iPhone).
Obviously, never can say never, but that’s just where it stands as of recent. I do however think you’ll see it on every other device though.
I can get the Magellan ( Mio) 505 in Aus for $399, How could i justify another $200 on the Garmin when the 505 seems to have better features , especially with the recent firmware upgrades
I would say it depends a little bit on which features you’re looking at. The Mio is solid for touring, but less ideal for the performance athlete. I’ve gotta get it entered into the product database to help make that a bit more clear. Obviously, your $200 price differential is very valid.
Nice tool, but to be interesting should implement R-R hr recording, TE training effect, avg 3,10,30″ lap avg Power Zone and %FTP, graphichal rappresentation of torque efficiency (likewise Pioneer), Vector battery %; Looking fwd for the review
Working on that now…hopefully will have that sorted in next few days. Gotta figure out which bike exactly I’m going to put it on. I could put it on my tri bike (P3), though, I’d actually rather it on a road bike. The only ‘challenge’ there is that my road bike isn’t terribly awesome (mostly use it for shorter product tests where a tri bike doesn’t work). And quite frankly, the cost of Di2 actually exceeds the value of my road bike by a fair margin.
On the Ant+ vs. Bluetooth 4 debate – I’ve recently migrated from using Wahoo Bluetooth 4.0 sensors (HRM and Speed/Cadence), paired with my iPhone, over to Ant+ with EDGE 800.
In my experience the Ant+ devices always “just work”, whereas the Bluetooth 4 sensors required no end of faffing around, hard closing/re-opening apps, restarting iPhone, even having to take the batteries out of the sensors and putting them in backwards to force reset the sensors.
I was under the impression iOS 7 would help with Bluetooth 4 reliability, but I’ve not noticed any difference. Anecdotal evidence suggests there are deeper issues with the sensor hardware and/or firmware, or even issues with the protocol itself.
BLE compatible smart devices are outstripping ANT+ devices by a fair margin for numbers. So there is a lot of focus on BLE. However, if someone buys an ANT+ compatible device they’ll buy sensors for it and then they may have one device serving multiple bikes / shoes / sports / etc. So BLE is in more phones but only a very small percentage is using it. This means the BLE protocol has more potential, but because of API’s and variations on how to implement BLE sports sensors initially (and very BAD API choices) has lead very fragmented adoption. Throw in the handful of old BT 2.1 HRM’s that are supported by some apps, and you have mass confusion and frustration. ANT+ benefits by being the first protocol that actually created a standard and make it very accessible whereas BLE is a bit of a copycat with a lot more protocol overhead and multiple ways to implement on the app side. This means BLE is relying almost entirely on 3rd party basement developers until the whole API thing gets sorted which should be sometime this year.
I am in the market for a new cycle computer (to replace my Edge 500). I only recently started using Strava and ever since haven’t use Connect at all or paid much attention to it. The segment feature adds to the fun and the data fields in Strava are more useful. More pros use Strava than Connect. Therein lies the problem…
However I think it’s a mistake of Garmin to ring fence Connect, and as a result introducing its own segment function.
We want simplicity and integration.
We don’t want to have to migrate or use 2 platforms for data and vice versa. We already have enough platforms available. There’s Training Peaks, WKO, SRM’s platform, Connect, Strava etc..
As to what will supersede my Edge 500 will come down to 2 computers, the Edge 510/810 or the SRM Power Control 8. I reckon these devices will be hot topics this summer.
Maps are not a deal breaker for me. I have a smartphone with good map integration to rely on, if required.
Though I will definitely purchase the cadence only sensor for MTB’ing (any maybe the speed sensor as well for reliability in the woods)
A lot of comments about the Edge 1000 being too big to be a contender. I agree that an iPhone can do pretty much everything (with the right sensors). But as a salesperson at a major outdoor retailer, remember that smartphones are only at 65-75% penetration of the market. There are still a lot of people who don’t have one. You also have people who have $30/mo low-quality prepaid smartphones with terrible network coverage. Here you have a device that will be more accurate, last longer, and gives almost all the benefits of a cycling app on a smartphone with none of the need for connectivity. Now, that being said, for me personally with a smartphone, I use a Fenix for my daily rides and my iPhone when I am exploring.
@Rainmaker – one key question for me is whether the EDGE 1000 samples location more than once a second and whether segments on Garmin Connect are sub-second accurate. Competitive segments on Strava sometimes have dozens of riders placed equal, because accuracy is limited to seconds. Sure, GPS accuracy maybe limiting, but when combined with data from a speed/cadence sensor, it should be possible to know the riders position to a very high degree of accuracy.
No, no consumer devices on the market today record sub-second GPS rates. And ultimately, with the accuracy of consumer GPS anyway, it wouldn’t really change much.
The challenge with utilizing the speed sensor data is that it only tells you speed, but not actually location. Meaning, even if I knew the starting point via GPS and then applied speed from the sensor, that doesn’t tell me/it whether I followed the route, or turned and went on a slightly easier route with lesser grade, but for the same distance.
Obviously recording sub-second GPS locations isn’t ideal in any regards for this kind of device, not only would it kill your battery-life, it would use up a ton of data.
If Strava or GC saw any substantial benefit in sub-second segment times, it could easily be done on the data-analysis side by taking the two GPS-location points that straddle the end of the segment, calculating your average speed over that distance and calculating a sub-second time based on the ‘exact’ location of the end of the segment. This would create a lot of processing workload for them though and given the accuracy of some of this data (especially when including with the multitude of smartphone users on there) it’s just not in their interest.
Hi DC-
The mini review said “Full and detailed maps included now” so does this mean we will not need to purchase a separate card with detailed maps?
I am East Coast US.
Or does having a card such as City Navigator North America NT give you even more detail?
Thanks,
Mike
Correct, it comes pre-loaded for maps based on the region you purchased (continent roughly). You can then further load other regional maps form free or paid sources.
Question is whether it will be as detailed as the North American maps on the SD card or not. Also will be interesting to know if they update maps via firmware or not?
I am a big gadget/bike equipment fan and buyer. Through the years I owned lot of garmin stuff, currently using FR620 and edge 810.
On various bikes I use various powermeters/sensors. What really drives me mad on both the 620 and the 810 is the lack of reliability. By far the 810 is worst in this respect. I never bothered to make statistics but I guess it’s realistic to say that every third ride presents me with some form of a problem. To me it seems that particularly the combo of two ANT+ sensors makes the 810 incredibly unstable. It very much looks like the 810 has more features than it can cope with.
I decided to completely switch to SRM as soon as the new PC is available. But it would be really interesting to see if the edge 1000 can live up to its promises again and offer us reliability.
I got hold of the Shimano Di2 SM-EWW01 a couple of weeks ago. it’s worth pointing out you’ll also need to source a 150mm or 200mm wire as there’s none in the box and it needs to go somewhere in serial in the loom.
If you mount the unit on the seat-stay 150mm is pretty tight, and perhaps 200mm is a better option. In theory it should be fine anywhere in the system, but I’ve yet to get hold of a compatible head unit to test that out with. I think I may end up with it below the seat tube bottle cage, just prior to going into the front derailleur. Putting it further forwards either has it hanging in the wind near the handle bars or having to be internally routed in the frame. I suppose in the downtube just forward of the BB is an option, but in reality it’s about twice the height of the internal junction box and that’s a tight fit…
Rumour was the DA Di2 5 port box has ANT+ built in but not enabled.
That’s odd that you had to buy a cable. The US store that I’ve seen listing it mentions that it’s included in the box contents.
Anyway, I’m planning on trying to place mine inside my frame in line with the junction box. Hopefully the signal doesn’t get attenuated too much with Carbon :) Worst case scenario is that I will bring it outside of the BB shell and mount it underneath and out of sight.
I’m really quite annoyed at Shimano for not integrating this into a replacement front junction, and will be more pissed if I go out and buy one, only to find they enable it on the 5 port one at some stage!
Agreed. Sure would be nice to find out whether Shimano has plans for the 5 port junction. ITs the right place for this in the first place. The junction is already up front near the stem, and I doubt the ant+ smarts would take up a lot of space. Ray: Can you ask Shimano?
Actually, Glory cycles told me that only 100 came to North America and they were allocated 11. So, there’s not that many. In any case, I’m sure by the time the Garmin is shipping they should be easier to get.
I think Garmin deciding to go against Strava in the segments and social arena is a mistake. While Garmin has deeper pockets, Strava has the user base. I think the natural response to this is Strava will roll their own or partner with another GPS provider and market a Strava branded unit that integrates all these features (some supported by third parties) at a lower cost. Smart money would say they would also be the first to integrate a camera into the unit as well. Enable the advanced features only the premium members, and you have a slam dunk.
I could run with the Strava line except they are just as conniving and difficult as any perceived competitor. I use Strava because they are the main platform, and it’s easiest to link up with friends using it, not because they are a good corporate citizen or a corporate team player. Their approach to draconian API control is quite appalling, locking out 3rd party developers, especially considering they are a social media company built around freedom of device, freedom of choice, freedom to compete. Strava really needs to replace Garmin Connect but that won’t happen, Strava can’t be trusted.
They’re all conniving, every one of them. I never saw Strava as a good corporate citizen, but I do see them as fostering a social community and actually making it somewhat fun (if not somewhat painful depending on the segment). My main point is with Garmin stepping into their turf and owning their own platform, Strava’s only way to survive is to offer a similar platform with their own value add. I was always somewhat surprised that Strava didn’t try to license a Garmin platform and put their own features in (such as the real time segment feature Garmin has announced). Perhaps they did and Garmin would not deal. A shame, because it probably would have been a very lucrative market for both of them. Either way, I expect that we’ll see a Strava branded, or enabled, unit announced soon.
Given the $600 price range, I thought it interesting that Garmin also released a $400 golf computer too that seems to be built on the same platform (looks identical). I assume it may not have the quarter turn mount or ANT+ (or does and it’s disabled), but either way the $200 difference is not justified.
When a head unit like this allows you to program in your target RPM range (i.e. 85 to 93) and it controls the electronic gearing to make it happen, we’ll see a revolution in training. Nearly everybody would make huge gains if they used a higher cadence and this would do it.
Zen — Curious as to why you say that higher cadence training would benefit most everybody. I thought the most recent research suggested people generally fall into their best cadence naturally.
Some comments about this device and Garmin in general.
I’m curious to know how people would use the di2 information if it was recorded? I know what gear I’m in almost all the time, and if I don’t a quick glance down would tell me. How would it help in post-analysis?
I also don’t find a lot of value in having a map sitting in front of me at all times. What is useful is a cue to “turn right in 200 meters”. Garmin should make that easy to do with all of their devices from Garmin Connect.
There are a whole slew of different types of devices and phones that show up on our local group rides. Most of them aren’t Garmins, and less than 1/3rd of the phones are iPhones. We like Strava for sharing, and the serious folks have Training Peaks accounts. Garmin is wasting their time and resources trying to compete with that. I also have to say that I never found it onerous to plug my device into my laptop and upload the files. Wifi sync with TP and Strava would be nice, but the thing needs to be plugged in sooner or later to charge anyway.
I don’t want texts or phone calls popping up the screen either. If my life ever becomes so complicated that I can’t disappear off the map for a couple of hours I’m doing something wrong, and I can check my phone when I stop to refill my bottles if I feel the need.
What I want: 1. Super rugged and weather-proof, 2. High quality and reliable data recording. 3. LOOOOONG battery life. 4. Easy to create cue sheets for turns.
Just to be clear, on the map piece, the Turn by turn directions are already present in Garmin devices. It started with the Edge 705, then the Edge 800, then the 810 and now the Edge 1000.
Greg, totally feel where you’re coming from, but as a Millenial, I think I speak for the rest of us when I say that although I’m not texting and running or chatting while I’m on the bike, it is really nice to know, at least, when someone is trying to hit you up. As the lady of the house, my worst fear is for something to happen to my hubby or one of my pets, and me not be able to at least know so I can turn around and start heading home. Calls/texts aren’t all bad. And you can turn the ‘Do Not Disturb’ function on on your phone, and the only calls that will come through are ones when someone tries to call you more than one time from the same number (an emergency).
Yes but unfortunately they are not voice directions. With Bluetooth this would be a very appealing feature. I can look at the road rather than the screen.
Have they sorted the Garmin Connect app out yet? I have an iPhone 5 and an Edge 810, and whilst it usually connects when I turn the Edge on it almost always loses the phone (that’s in my pocket) and EVERY upload at the end of the ride either fails or doesn’t happen at all (i.e. saves to history).
I saw from the Garmin forums that there seems to be a general issue with this.
Hi Ray
You say “The bottom of the unit still retains the ability to add a MicroSD card for additional storage (generally used for additional maps)”
Does that means that the preloaded maps are now on the device’s internal memory instead of the usual microSD as for the Touring?
That memory would partially justify the price.
Thanks
Luca
Did you ride Mt Lemmon, Ray? My Dad and I did it last month and had a great time. We even tried out a Sony Action Cam to catch the descent: link to youtube.com
Super interesting toy! I’m intrigued by the fact that it has the ability to hook up with your iPhone via Bluetooth and that can let you know at least that you have a call. I also think it’s kind of funny that you had to mention that the device needed to be on you…but I’m sure you’ve gotten those weird questions before! Great review, but I think for the price I should probably stick to what I have :( bummer!
Thanks for the great review, albeit being on a somewhat pre-production unit. Def will make me wait to purchase another 500 (bought a 910XT for Triathlons but find myself very much missing the standalone out in the fron dedicated unit on my road bike!) . I would assume it does but do you know for sure if it will be compatible with all the other Garmin sensors like HR straps, cadence and speed sensors that I already have ?
Again great blog and and formidable resource for research ! keep up the good work…
Thanks for the quick response! BTW as soon as it’s available post a link to the amazon’s store :-) I’d be happy to buy through your link and get you some $.
Just noticed Amazon now lists it, so I just added the link into the page (table at very bottom). Or, you can also pre-order through Clever Training and save a bunch of cash. Either way supports the blog.
Phone must be the way forward, everyone carries one with them any way. If your obsessed with accuracy you can get a bluetooth gps reciver to use with your phone, slightly less than a garmin….
I like the live tracking thing in concept, but I really don’t want to take my cell phone along for a run or ride. Here’s to hoping someone develops devices (ideally a watch) that does the usual, and also accepts a sim card that I can insert for cell coverage.
Anyone know of such a device that currently exists or being developed that’s suited for runners or bikers?
Seems the shipping date on these may have slipped by a month now according to Clever Training. Their date now shows June, and I confirmed this with a phone call :(
Yes, Garmin revised the ship date to companies to ‘May 30th’, as a result, Clever decided to just call it June. Since May 30th is a Friday, and that’s the date it leaves Garmin, not the date it arrives to Clever.
Thanks for the sneak peek! Does this new device also include a music player allowing you to manage and play music from your phone (like the Mio you recently looked at)?
I was hoping this would be the update to the 810. I can see this appealing to keen strava fans. I look at my smartphone, then back at the garmin menus, screens and connectivity. It reminds me of Nokia just before smart phones came along. They could do with a good cycling offroad device, more about navigation than performance.
Excellent overview. However, not all cycling enthusiasts are firmly dedicated to monitoring heartrates, watts, social media connectivity e.a. We are, I prefer to believe, many, who just want a good time on our bikes in adverse weatherconditions in strange mountains in foreign countries, with a full load of camp equipment, we are, for lack of a better word, touring fanatics. As such we have absolutely no interest in the “new features” of above Edge 1000 except for perhaps the wifi thing. I hasten to say, that I tour with an ipad3, an iphone 5, Plantronics earbugger and a Garmin Edge 810 all connected via bluetooth and working perfect together. What we tourers do need is bigger and better screens and batterypower combined with ease of downloading maps without the necessity of connecting to a pc. , its for us very simple actually, and why this hasnt been solved is as usually beyond me.
Lots of things are mentioned int the article – and some are in comments.
But I am still missing a far-fetched question that I was hoping that Garmin would issue: Does it have any specific features for the MTB-community?
As a MTB trail-biker that sometimes just take my bike and go to a different area – I would have loved the round trip routing/planner to give me suggested routes at a place that I´ve never been. But I want it to suggest OFF-ROAD (or at least non-tarmac) routes/trails.
Heard of the Edge 1k will have that choice?
I know that the MIO Cyclo 500-series have a similar “surprise me”-route planner – but have yet still to figure out if it can present me with “non-tarmac”-routes?
In any case, thank you for being the best reviewer out there when it comes to these cycle-gadgets! :)
As usual, it comes down to the maps. If the maps you’re using have routable trails, then the Edge should be able to route on them. Since they’re using OSM maps, there’s a chance they’ll include trails, but there’s no guarantee. You may have to install OSM maps yourself. The OSM maps for my area do include routable trails, but the only way to know for sure is to try using BaseCamp or on the Edge before hand. On some maps (Garmin’s own TOPO maps), trails are either missing or just lines on a map without the extra information to make them routable. BaseCamp and OSM maps are free, so it doesn’t cost anything to try it out beforehand.
In reply to Paul: I would not agree with you about this – since I want the routes that previous MTB-bikers have ridden. Whether or not it´s on a map!
Like the smartphone app “Endomondo” – where I can download previous bikers saved routes (that are most often not on any map at all) and chose if I want to follow one.
Would it not be an excellent online-feature:
1. You arrive on your destination where you have not been before
2. You ask the Edge 1000 that you want to ride aprox 30km of MTB-trail
3. The Edge goes online and get the – by previous users – saved routes in the area that are marked for MTB and cut/merge something together. Maybe with an option for getting at least one “uncut” version from a popular local MTB-route. Maybe using “heat signature” mapps as reference?
4. The Edge then suggests three routes for you to ride with aprox timestamps based on previous riders.
5. Advanced version with calculated approx. time to complete them based on previous riders. Maybe even record accelerometer data to compute how “bumpy” the route is – giving an indication on how technical it might get (or even certain parts of the route) – maybe even becoming a choice when looking for a route.
Now THAT would be something.
And trying to look for the sporty tarmac-riders: Just as a MTB:ist would set/prefer more/less bumpy roads – they would be able to set/prefer more/less up/downhills.
Just got an email from Evans Cycles promoting the Edge 1000. Went to have a look more to see how $600 translates in to £’s and was shocked to see its £500! I’m normally pretty blind to Garmin prices (have 810, FR620, VIRB elite, Vivofit) but I’d love to know how Garmin arrived at that price especially as the target market would likely have the (hugely?) troublesome (unfixed) 810 and so not liable to trust Garmin…… I don’t!!!
Can I ask you – why you included in your comparison table all the old garmins – but not the new polar V650? They are too different or in totally different classes? I’m thinking to buy one of them, I wanted V650 – but now also start to thinking about Edhe 1000. I have powermeter from Powertap which has both Bluetooth and ANT transmitters – and I can use them both Garmin and Polar – so why not make comparison this two new computers?
You can mix any products you want via the product comparison tool, including the V650: link to dcrainmaker.com
The V650 doesn’t do mapping, so I didn’t include it above. And, realistically, compared to the Edge 510 or even 500, it doesn’t do much of that either by the way things are looking. Most folks looking at the V1000 are likely coming from an existing Garmin device, and thus, it seemed the chart would to the majority of the users in the current configuration. Especially since it’s only a click away to compare any products.
Fred has a very very important point. Manufacturers seem to forget that there are three main types of cyclists, all “needing tecnical help” for “succeeding” in their endeavours: 1. Roadists (Raceists, pun not intended), 2. MTBists and 3. Touringists. I belong to no 3. and shall thus refrain from commenting on the needs of nos 1 and 2. One example: I have recently concluded a tour from Seville in Spain to Santiago de Compostella along the Via de la Plata with 38 kilos on bike incl bike, gadgets, rollers, water etc., said route has existed for abt 1200 years. I am riding for app 8-10 hours a day weeks on end, but I cannot be sure that there is 220v at my nightly stopover to charge all of my gadgets. My Garmin Edge 810 has a theoretical lifespan of 16 hours, in the real world it is abt 8-10! So next day I am at a loss if I dont have additional powerbackup. So why is it that nobody has “invented” a cycling computer that tells me, where I am, my friends also, with a big screen, with readily available maps of Via de la Plata e.a. downloaded via wifi (to connect you with everything else) without need of a pc and a lifespan to tell the story? And nothing else! My heartrate, watts e.a. well I have survived so far! Does the new Garmin Edge 1000 solve any of my or my fellow trampers’ problems? No, it doesnt! So untill somebody entrepeneur on kickstarter does this, I am always carrying common sense, a good oldfashioned hardcopy roadmap and a magnetic compass! :)
Hey, interesting post…. Have just been doing a London, Paris, London tour with an 810 and lots of KG’s in my Ortlieb panniers.
With regards battery life I’m seeing around 13/14hrs with speed and cadence connected and a little bit of time connected to a VIRB Elite on my helmet. The absolute CRITICAL thing to do is turn the back light off as it eats battey power like there’s no tomorrow. Can’t comment on the connectivity where you are or where you’ve been but I found that the 810 connected to my phone a Samsung Galaxy S4 and tablet a Google Nexus 7 worked perfectly. So, I was able to send my 810 tracks each day to Garmin Connect via the S4 then view them on the nice large screen of the Nexus. I was also able to download routes that I’d saved in GC to the 810 as needed so if I had some extra time I’d add a sightseeing route. The only issue and to be honest a REAL pain was that I wasn’t able to to create routes on this setup. The phone always knows where you are so I mainly used Google maps.
As for recharging your batteries I’m surprised that you don’t have a hub dynamo especially judging by the mileage your doing also it being Spain maybe a solar panel might be appropriate.
The 810 is FAR FAR from perfect and Garmin needs to do the right thing and sort them out.
Assuming Garmin is smart enough to read these comments, please, please enable the features discussed on the 510 and 810, especially the remote. It has always been cumbersome to swipe pages, to the point where I just don’t bother any more. The idea of being able to change pages while remaining in the TT position or not take a hand off the bars while riding off-road is exciting. I would buy one of the remotes is a second if it worked on my 510. Garmin – given the slightly frustrating and disappointing history of the 510 and 810 I feel like you owe us this much.
On another note – Thanks Ray for another great inside scoop on an upcoming product, I have no doubt that your blog influences this type of sports technology more than almost any other factor, you should do this full time (if it paid the bills) :)
Tks Scott, but i do have a Dynamohub, which runs all my lighting. I also have a Power Monkey Extreme solar powered battery, and I have two spare batteries for Ipad/iphone just in case, so I can manage but it is a nuisance not to speak of the necessity of bringing one thousand different connecting things for charging. On my handlebar sits also my old Iphone 3gs as a backup for the 810 with google maps and tomtom europe. The 810 works perfectly with my Iphone 5 and my Plantronics Legend earmike, no problem there. So once again re “the new Edge”: “bigger” battery, bigger screen, wifi and direct downloading of maps and routes! As for the weight I really dont care if I carry 35 kilos or 35200 grams, thats just one cola less. ;)
Lots of people saying that not implementing strava segments is a mistake and I kind of agree BUT I don’t think that garmin are being as stupid as it might seem.
Strava have 2 big selling points over GC IMO
1. A mature and functional web site
2. Segments
Obviously garmin are not going to buy strava (as described above) but using the edge 1000 they can copy all of the strava segments without lifting a finger. Anybody using the 1000 and strava is going to copy all their favourite segments to GC. So garmin can basically crowd source copy one of stravas advantages. So there will be a natural convergence of GC and strava segments without garmin spending a cent.
The prehistoric website and apps are another issue – hard to believe they can be so bad ?
I’m looking to get a new Edge. i have the 500. i’m looking to get the new edge 1000 i would like to now about seeing the screen in the sun is it hard to see the screen.
I was waiting to get a bit of clarity on that actually, mostly because I wanted to validate what I saw versus what was coming. Thankfully, I got that about an hour ago while out on my ride. Here’s how it works:
The Edge display will show the alert, the user can then access the content of the text messages through the status bar where it’s indicated how many calls/texts have been missed or alternatively through the Bluetooth settings.
You forgot the ambient light sensor that auto adjusts the display brightness. I think this is a big plus.
” It has an ambient light sensor that automatically adjusts the screen brightness to changing light conditions to improve visibility”
BTW: I like the idea of knowing when a call comes in when I am in a on-call rotation for work requiring a 15 minute callback – This may be the reason for me to upgrade.
I’m surprised that they haven’t integrated a solar panel to extend the battery life. Seems like the biggest power draw is the backlight in direct sunlight. It would produce the most current at the times that require the most power.
There is a technology where you actually place a solar panel membrane under the screen. There are both watches and cellphones that have used this in the past.
Fred April 24, 2014 at 9:16 am #274 said: “There is a technology where you actually place a solar panel membrane under the screen. There are both watches and cellphones that have used this in the past.”
“Nomad 7 Solar Panel” 3-6 hours to recharge a “Goal Zero Switch 8” Recharger (2200 mAh battery).
Size of goal-zero panel (a slight overestimate): 9 x 17 in = 153 in^2
Size of Edge 800 display 1.5 x 2 in = 3 in^2.
The Edge 800 has a 1000 mAh battery.
Assuming a midrange charging time between 3-6h (note that 3h is “best conditions”): 2200mAh/4.5h = 489mAh/h.
We get: 489mAh/h * 3in^2/153in^2 = 9.8 mAh/h.
To fully charge a Edge 800 with an Edge-sized solar cell: 1000mAh/(9.8 mAh/h) = 100 hours.
I ran a fully-charged Edge 800 continuously for 9.5 h and ended-up with a 12% charge remaining. The solar cell would be continuously “topping-up” the Edge, which means that we’d get about 100mAh of charge in 10 h. So, for my example, I would have ended-up with, very optimistically, a 22% charge remaining instead of 12%.
Keep in mind that the Goalzero panel is designed for solar collecting (without any efficiency-robbing display and oriented towards the sun to maximize exposure.
That is, the numbers above would be very optimistic for a solar cell on an Edge 800 (and the result is not very good).
The iPhone 5s lasts about ten hours on its own under continuous use. Toss a three-ounce Mophie Juice Pack ($120) on it and it will, reliably, last 20 hours. That solves my battery problem and I’m still an ounce less weight and $480 ahead versus the Edge 1000.
Going Bluetooth instead of ANT solves my problem for sensors. Now, if I could just find a QuadLock-style mount ($70, give or take) that would work with the Mophie, I’d have no need for anything other than the phone. Yes, the screen is not as daylight-visible as a dedicated bike computer but, for $400 less, I’m more than willing to make due.
I’m a Garmin fan going way back, nearly two decades, but the tipping point has been reached with regards to dedicated units versus extending the smart phone for the bulk of the market. I did my first 300k a couple weeks ago, am looking to do more long distance cycling, would love to add mapping and detailed statistics but I don’t see the Garmin as the way to that end.
Backyardavore said: “The Edge – to be worth anywhere near $600 – requires a smart phone.”
The 810 is $500 and lots of people us it without a smartphone.
Backyardavore said: “Garmin: please make a $300 product that mounts on my bars, docks my cell phone, includes a better GPS than is in my phone, reads my ANT/BT sensors and has a battery that will feed said phone for an additional ten hours. I see a value in Garmin’s GPS better receiver, locally-stored maps (for use when touring outside service range) and, for a smart phone to be an effective long-distance bike computer, need more battery life. Garmin has the engineering and manufacturing depth to make the product.”
Smartphone manufacturers change the dimentions of their smartphones and smartphones from different manufacturers are all different. And connectors are not in any consistent place either.
An expensive dock would be a business disaster. And, for your list, the only thing missing is a display. That is a “dock” wouldn’t be much cheaper than what Garmin already provides.
Backyardavore said: “(I’d even fudge on the requirement of a dock. Allow me to velcro the Garmin device to the head tube the way I do the battery for my headlight. That would probably be better because it means they could sell one Garmin for a variety of phones and all you’d need is a custom cable between the Garmin and the phone.)”
This is a somewhat better idea but it really wouldn’t be much cheaper and it would have to be larger (to accomodate a battery big enough to provide any significant power to the phone).
Backyardavore, that is exactly the point head on. (This is not a Garmin nor an Apple bashing blog though, but a frank exchange of views! ). Now, all the technology for making a viable and workable and today a quite simple product for us no 3.s, is already out there, it has as of today been invented many times by several different manufacturers, but “corporate egocentrism” seems to have prevented it from being turned into a product, which will ultimately benefit us bikers. Therefore, overviews from the rainmaker including comments is a very very valuable contribution for making the manufacturers understand what we, the endusers, the buyers, it is our money, think of this and that, supposing naturally that Garmin reads over our metaphorical shoulders. I am still at a loss of understanding, why Garmin when confronted by me had the nerve to tell me, that my difficulties with the City Navigator, purchased with my 810, in Spain was my problem! I had supposedly bought the latest in biking navigation, but it was hopelessly out of date, which is exactly why I carry I-phones and additional (excess) amount of common sense! In a weird way it was my problem though! I appologize that English is not my first language. :(
Hi
How figure out if the DI2 on my bike is compatible with the Shimano D-Fly Data Management (SM-EWW01). could not locate the model number. I have a bmc team machine, 2012 ultegradi2.
Thank you Fadi.
Check out this site, it may help identify exactly which model you have: link to carltonbale.com
It’s effectively a ‘everything you ever wanted to know’ about Di2, tutorial.
Also, as an FYI to others, Clever Training is now carrying the SM-EWW01. Like everything else, you save 10% as well as free US shipping there. They’re also working to load in the full Di2 line-up as well (it’s a bit of a complex set of SKU’s to list). Links are up in the accessories at end of post.
The simple answer to your question is that your version of Di2 6770 is indeed compatible, but you may need to upgrade the firmware on your Di2 system in order to make use of it.
For $650 I can buy a new iPhone with a better display and a faster processor. Seems to me that Garmin has got the relationship of the phone and the cycling accessory the wrong way around. It would be better to make an accessory that does the things the phone doesn’t do, like barometric pressure and GLONAS (maybe), and write a super app for the phone to integrate it along with the various sensors for speed, cadence, and power. It’s just as easy to mount an iPhone on your handlebars as something that’s almost as big as an iPhone; even an iPad mini works pretty well on handlebars with the appropriate mount.
I guess I’ll have to start a company to do this stuff right.
That works for you, but what about the people that don’t care to use their smart phone or don’t have smart phone? Those are two reasons why Garmin is still in business and why there is still a market for cycling computers. There’s room enough in the world for people who just want to use a cycling computer, for people who only want to use their cell phone, and for people who want to use their cell phone in combination with some other device. There’s no single best solution.
That’s right, Simon. If a cyclists choice what a smart phone OR an Edge 1000 but NOT BOTH, the cyclist would probably choose the Edge 1000. But that isn’t the way this product is designed. The Edge – to be worth anywhere near $600 – requires a smart phone. The paradox is that once you have committed to the smart phone, you start to question why you need the Edge.
Garmin: please make a $300 product that mounts on my bars, docks my cell phone, includes a better GPS than is in my phone, reads my ANT/BT sensors and has a battery that will feed said phone for an additional ten hours. I see a value in Garmin’s GPS better receiver, locally-stored maps (for use when touring outside service range) and, for a smart phone to be an effective long-distance bike computer, need more battery life. Garmin has the engineering and manufacturing depth to make the product.
(I’d even fudge on the requirement of a dock. Allow me to velcro the Garmin device to the head tube the way I do the battery for my headlight. That would probably be better because it means they could sell one Garmin for a variety of phones and all you’d need is a custom cable between the Garmin and the phone.)
I’ll betcha 99.9% of the people who own $2500 bikes and $600 worth of cycling electronics own smartphones, and so would Garmin or they wouldn’t be focused on smartphone integration so much. If you make a list of the elements in the modern smartphone and the 1000, there’s a high degree of overlap, with the smartphone the more generally capable device because it has the 4G/LTE network interface that’s extremely useful for navigation and social stuff. Smartphones don’t have precise GPS, but that’s mainly a question of software these days; they also don’t tend to have barometric altimeters or ANT+ interfaces, and they tend to have battery challenges for long rides. Garmin has generally been too committed to ANT, which is problematic now that BT 4 BLE is a functional on iOS if not on Android. It’s also problematic for swimming.
Kinda seems to me that Garmin needs to realize they’re a software company that makes a few hardware accessories instead of the other way around.
Richard Bennett said: “For $650 I can buy a new iPhone with a better display and a faster processor.”
The screen on an iPhone is useless in direct sunlight.
Smartphones have a lot of potential but, at present, the Garmin units work better for bicycle nagivation.
Here’s why:
1) Better battery life.
2) Better/simpler mounting.
3) Better/simpler weather resistance.
4) Much better display for direct sunlight.
5) Off-line (local storage) maps.
6) Better handling of navigating uploade routes. (There are a few apps that purport to do this but they are either don’t work that well or are very new).
7) More appropriate size. (The Garmins could be bigger but some of the bigger phones, and certainly tablets, are really too big).
The $250 Garmin Touring does all of these right out of the box.
Smartphones don’t do all of these things “out of the box”. Things like mounting and weather resistance are things that cost extra for smartphones.
Certainly, for more “casual” riders, using the smartphone they already have might make more sense.
The phones (and other GPS units) are starting to support GLONASS by default (that is, supporting GLONASS isn’t a differentiator).
It varies by both model, but actually more importantly these days – the app. Which app you select has a tremendous impact on the accuracy of the GPS track, since most apps do some form of data smoothing to eliminate many of the errors natively introduced by the phone.
I have no problems at all with my iPhone screen in direct sunlight. I just change the brightness which I also do on my Garmin 510 and 810 which both need backlight on and turned up all the time. Also I have plenty of complaints about Garmin color screen visibility in direct sunlight.
There are multiple approaches to the battery life issue using an iPhone.
1. Turn off data gives you hours more battery and does not affect GPS.
2. There are multiple battery packs you can use for longer rides but for typical rides built in battery is more than enough.
3. Do you really need the screen on all the time? Most people don’t. Tap it when you want to see data.
There are plenty of ways to easily do offline storage of maps. The latest version of Google maps make it really easy but there were may ways prior to this.
There are plenty of ways to easily upload courses.
This mount is easy and simple. It has been reviewed on this site. link to amazon.com
Topeak would be another one.
I just ordered the Annex case and the Polar H7 Bluetooth strap from Amazon and will be testing and comparing them to my 510 and 810.
I think the price on the Garmin 1000 is ridiculous and I’m not a particularly price sensitive person. I think it rightly makes people think why can’t they just use their phone instead. A case HR strap and Cadence/speed sensor for a phone would be under $150.
I wish I could be more Garmin positive but their software is terrible and I don’t really want to be a year long beta tester for another product like I was with the 510.
I would love to see a similar comparison on this site.
If Garmin is really a software company they need to get better developers and testing than they have now.
ANT + has less and less reason to exist now.
About every modern smartphone does GLONASS by the way.
I’d suggest that the vast majority of people who buy an Edge series computer want to be able to see those stats anytime they look at a handlebar. I could be wrong, but if I was, then nobody would be buying Edge units and instead using phones.
As for routes – what specific methods do you use to upload routes to a phone app and then ride them on a bicycle, that also gets sensor data (HR, etc…)?
I’m so on the verge of buying a Garmin Edge (of some variety) but can’t bring myself to over using my smartphone/app combo.
I have a Trek Domane 4.5 with integrated ANT+ sensors for cadence/speed. I have a Polar BT HRM belt.
I have a Galaxy S4 phone mounted with Ultimate Addons mount (bit bulky but does the job and gives weatherproofing).
Apps wise, I then use:
– Strava for… well, Strava
– SportsTrackLive – for stats etc, This really is a good app for stats, cadence, pace whatever, just a back to basics no nonsense app. Can also export to strava with HR data (link to play.google.com)
– MapMyRide or GoogleMaps – for route planning
I also have two spare batteries with me and I’ve never come unstuck with this.
Yes I do have three apps running at times, not sure how this affects battery life but it’s working fine for me. Have real time tracking on MapMyRide and SportTrackLive including social sharing in real time.
The downsides to me are:
– the set up doesn’t look very ‘bike’ and the mount/case is big. It has also come detached and ended on the road once on a bumpy section
– having to swap batteries at times
– built in weather proofing.
However the issues mentioned above are solvable with the phone situation, perhaps not elegantly but I can’t quite bring myself to shell out £400 for a unit that probably offers less that what I’m getting now to cure the above issues.
BTW, will my Polar BT HRM belt link to the Edge 1000?
No, unfortunately no luck on the BT HRM with the Edge 1000. I’d go with something like some of the dual straps (see the product comparison tool on the sidebar, then HR sensor dropdown, for all of those).
I’d agree that right now the bike-app story is still fairly ‘divergent’, which is really my biggest issue. I wish there was one app that did all of what I wanted. In some ways, if the Wahoo app would allow me to customize the data screens, and then had turn by turn routing – that’d be a big move. I don’t use interval and workout function a ton in my normal bike rides (I do occasionally), so those are slightly less critical for me. Well, minus waterproofing, but I think phones are clearly evolving there.
Yes, good points. To be honest the three app thing is working fine for me, I often know which route I’m going to do but if not I just put one on MapMyRide and kick it off. Then kick off Strava to upload there (I could just do that via SportsTrackLive) then leave SportsTrackLive on display which has all data you could shake a stick at and a myriad of UI options, ghost riders, graphs etc. I can listen to music, see texts, emails, whatsapp, calls etc at a glance. Google maps right there if I need it. I just can’t feel enough compulsion to migrate the a compute.
It feels to me like that whole bike computer/smartphone/apps/garmin/strava thing is in a real transitional state at the moment. I’m going to buy a QuadLock mount and continue with my Galaxy S4 for the time being, see how things look in a year or so.
Would like to use S3 for cycle computer, but find the sun more powerful than the screen and battery on a ride.
On a recent ride with it mounted to by top tube, the device was on the verge of overheating with the screen off and only running a few Bluetooth apps. And forget ever seeing the screen with the big light(sun) up or keeping it power with reserve battery.
Like the concept of purpose built remote screen and sensors acting as a relay for visual and data collection. Wahoo seams to be on track for this in reading.
Are there any other NFC type screencast solutions?
Almost certainly, it accomodates custom maps just like the Touring and every other mapping Edge unit. It would actually be harder and more expensive for Garmin not to allow for custom maps. Keep in mind that you have to be able to update the maps on any unit.
If anything Smartphone GPS is better hardware wise. It’s the software that would be more the concern but the latest versions of all options I have seen are good these days.
Was this release of the garmin 1000 unexpected? If so, do you think we can expect to see more releases (ie upgrades for the edge 500 and 800) from garmin in the near future?
Let see if will have more power features and Vo2Max estimation toghether with training effect? (a plus vs the 810)
BTW it’s nice that support the Tanita BC-1000, wondering if also the new BC-1500
It looks like the big problem with this device is the price, as many have said $600 is smart phone territory. The issues with smart phones as navigators have been pointed out;
– Battery Life
– Water resistance
– GPS accuracy
I live in the UK, and the pre-order price for the Garmin 1000 is already 17% discounted from list price on my main shopping website, which does actually move it to about 60% of a smartphone price.
I don’t have much money, but I do have more money than sense, and I’m likely to buy a Edge 1000 just for the bigger screen, and so I can pass my Edge 800 to my wife, who’s combination of basic speedo’s, running watch GPS and paper maps is driving me insane.
Is it possible to put the D-fly sensor in the frame? Is there someone who did this?
And can the sensor be placed everywhere in the E-tube bus? Or must the sensor be placed between the junction box and the RD? If not would it be possible to put the sensor in the seat tube under the bat.
Nico, It will work anywhere on the bus, however as to whether it works in the frame, that depends on frame material and how far away it is from the head unit.
Thanks for the fast reply!
I am planning to order the wires en D-fly this week to test it out.
There is room enough in the Trek 7 tubes. But integretion in the junction box would be the normal place indeed!
I Will keep you informed on my progres.
I’ve got mine on the way this week as well. The trouble is, without the 1000, we won’t know if the signal is strong enough if its internal. First one to make this happen successfully should win special mention!
The ideal is to mount the D-Fly in the spot you want, and use a Garmin Ant+ USB dongle with a packet sniffer to check for the signal………but that’s way beyond me. :-)
I found your comments on segments interesting, because the only reason I got a GPS unit is because I am a pursuit/TT sort of guy and haven’t the slightest interest in city line sprint type deals.
Perhaps the Strava community is rather different where you are, or perhaps because you don’t see the use of it to a TT guy you haven’t delved into it far enough to understand it. So far for the month I’m leading the 10 mile out and back TT, the 1.5 mile point to point “pursuit,” and last week took the mile record outright, (on a sub $200 dollar fixie, OK, I did change the “demo” pedals to MKS rubber blocks and the straight handlebars to Lauterwassers). Not bad for a guy looking down the barrel of moving into the highest age group.
If it weren’t being able to TT on the Strava platform I probably wouldn’t be doing it all anymore. I’ve rather lost my tolerance for the orginizational aspects of more formal competition. Call it “soul” time trialing.
I suggest you give the idea further consideration.
All devices by Garmin are quite dumb when it comes to detecting movement. They are prone to GPS drift as the support tells me. The point where this moronic suggestion is laid to rest is when the 800, VIRB, etc is connected to a speed & cadence sensor. The device still activates as if it was being moved. This is not a big issue with the 800 but it is with VIRB as it destroys the video with useless frames. I wonder if 1000 is prone to the same.
Such inexplicably stupid mistakes leade to believe that Garmin isnt going to do anything about this because it doesn’t have any competition in USA.
If I had the option I would go with Bryton. I urge everybody to do the same. A GPS is supposed to provide peace of mind but the stupid Garmin devices fail in exactly that. Not to mention its miserable course support. Can you believe that there is no option to have a custom point on the route & have the device display the remaining distance to it? This is particularly helpful while climbing. If I have to keep on subtracting the current altitude from the total to know the remaining, the device is a piece of trash.
I’m really convinced that Garmin did a very good job to migrate all of the many deficiencies of the 810 to the new 1000. But as the new 1000 has more features, we can be lucky about even more deficiencies and bugs of course. As soon as it comes out, I will buy it. I’m keen to find out, if it can raise the level of annoyance above the 810. Don’t worry …. ;-)
Jim,
I tried Garmin 810 turn-by-turn once in 75miles ride and I almost crashed because of its direction, I was paid attention to control the 810 rather than looking at the street. it became so erratic during the ride, then the unit frozen. I was lucky to bring a long a cue sheet and made it home.
How long was the route? I split a 200k into two pieces for my 800 and things worked very well. I suspect that the routing works better for shorter routes and shorter routes make it easier/faster to recover if the device gets “lost”.
Excellent Blog Post and Comments here. Thank you Ray and everyone for the great info on the topic of Bike Computers and the Garmin in specific.
Since I do not own a Bike Computer and was looking to purchase one for the first time, I was curios if the Garmin Edge 1000 is the one to get?
Why? Well, it has the everything I would use with the exception of the D2 ability. Also, I do not own any of the previous Garmin Bike Computers (as so many do who posted comments here). Whether this is an advantage or disadvantage is another question I have. Because I’ve never spent the cash for an Edge 800 or 810, it does not put me into a quandary (hmm, I spent x$ on one last year so why would I spend more now). Since I did not lay out the cash already, is the Edge 1000 worth the price?
I see advantages to the Edge 1000 like the following:
1. It has a Bigger Display
2. It has a Higher Resolution Display
3. It has a Faster Procesor making it a faster Bike Computer
4. It has its own Segment Platform vs. the Strava Platform
NOTE: I see this as a positive due to Strava having gotten too big and too cluttered with inaccurate Segments listed by users using inaccurate information rendering the Segments useless.
5. It uses updated Technology like the Magnetless / Auto Calibrating Speed and Cadence Sensors.
6. It uses Ant+ in conjunction with Blutooth technology making it future proof.
7. I could go on and on but finally, it is sleek and pretty cool looking especially with a K5 Metal Mount. :-)
So, should I get the Garmin Edge 1000 this being my first Bike Computer?
Thank you again Ray and Everyone for the best Blog and Information on the Internet!
Given the Edge 1000 won’t likely be out till June at this point, I’d wait till then to make a decision, to be honest. It allows you to see what Garmin does with respect to Di2 on the Edge 510/810, as well as what they do with respect to Segments on the 510/810.
The speed/cadence sensors are valid on all recent Garmin units, so that’s a bit of a wash.
Thank you for the reply. It is appreciated. Since you are so responsive to your readers and myself, I placed the order for the Edge 1000 with Clever Training. I took what you said into consideration and made an early decision. I hope I got in early to get in on the first batch. This was to support you and Clever Training. I did input the 10% off code put it did not apply to my order. I will be calling them to see why. Maybe you can put in the good word for me to make the transaction go through smoothly.
I ordered it as per your asking for the support. It was ordered to show my appreciation.
Odd on the coupon code, I just tested it and it seemed to work for me. No worries though, the CT folks will easily be able to apply/take care of it for you.
Thank you very much for checking into this. They straightend everything out before I had a chance to call. If this was your doing, I cannot thank you enough. I am very happy I found your excellent reviews and Clever Training with employees who care about about their customers. What a great combination! :-). I look forward to doing business with Clever Training again in the future.
If anyone else is reading this post, I highly recommend purchasing from Clever Training. This is my first time purchasing from them and I can already see they care about their customers. And no, I am not affiliated with Clever Training nor do I know DC Rainmaker.
Hi Ray,
I see the home screen is a little different from the 510/810 – is it still easy to select between different bike profiles before starting an activity? Any idea how many bike profiles can be stored?
Does the Edge 1000 accept tcx cource files in the NewFiles folder like the 500 and 800 series do?
Are the new ANT sensors compatible with older Garmin Edge models?
The sensors are compatible with older units (though, I’d need to validate on the Edge 705 if it supports speed-only and cadence-only sensors, can’t remember offhand).
To answer my own question: Yes it does accept the old .tcx course files in the NewFiles folder and converts them to new .fit course files. This comes in handy as I won’t have to change my MO. Also the Edge 1000 is a lot quicker with the conversion process than my old Edge 800.
I am at a loss of understanding why there seems to me to be a lack of “common sense” among manufacturers of a.o. cycling computers in casu Garmin. In my country (Denmark) abt. 2% of all cyclists are in the category 1. (roadists/raceists pros as well as wannabees) while abt. 95 % are in the categories 2. (mtbists/crossists/generalpractioners) and 3. (touringists), remaining 3% are the up and coming electric cycles for the elderly and disabled so they can see their own country better than before.
Now, in my admittedly narrow and humble world, I fail to understand why anybody would want to lean onto a marketshare of 2%!? You can only do that with some succes if Your product is a novelty (like, say, Iphone, Ipad e.a.), but the Garmin Edge is no longer a novelty! All the technology for making a real whopper for the remaining 98% is allready out there!
You see, there is still something called “common sense”! If we 98% does not appreciate, that frozen water on our ponds means that it would be a good idea to put on our Merino woollen socks, if we do not recognize that fallen trees all around means danger to our healths, if we on a cloudy day cannot find “North”, if we cannot understand why our hearts and pulses goes haywire, well then maybe we should stay at home and breed rabbits (no offence to rabbitbreeders!). We do not need an electronic device to tell us these things, and a lot of us do not need to boast about anything!
But sometimes we do need to know, with glasses on our old eyes, the easiest possible way where we are, where we are going, and what we are going to eat where. If this could include knowing where to get the bike fixed in case of need, well yes! So Garmin and others: Back to the drawing table, make a concerted effort to interface your marketing people with your bikingphanatics!
Fair is fair and f.y.i. I am at this moment conducting a trial with my Edge 810 and my Power Monkey Extreme solar battery. In the whole month of April (28 days so far), the monkey has kept my 810 on 100% and the Monkey itself is, as I write, on 81%, and Denmark is not as You probably know the most sunny side of this world, which is exactly why we invented the Dragon Longboat!
Where can i find any information about the internal battery capacity ?
Iam curious about so i make an estimation of battery life with the monkey expolorer.
I would like to express my interest to Garmin in having the di2 gear support added to my edge 510. Do you have a link or contact to to register this interest?
Yes, the best way to voice feedback/suggestions is via: link to www8.garmin.com & Facebook and Twitter, with a slight preference to Facebook as they tend to monitor that more.
I got my Shimano SM‑EWW01 D-fly unit today, and like somebody else mentioned before I think, there is no E-tube cable in the box. At least a couple of the adverts I’ve seen for this says that there’s a 150mm one as part of the contents…. I’m a bit miffed about this, but just thought I’d post this as a warning to others.
Anyway, wheres that Edge 1000 or update to the 510/810 Garmin?
Just want to ask regarding the gear display. I would just want a simply gear number display in one of my training pages, for example “53 – 17” alongside my other metrics on the same page. Can this be done?
I notice that there is only a dedicated page for Di2 in your pictures.
Can you suggest that the Di2 metrics be integrated into other normal training pages for display?
Having them all on one page was just how I configured it for a photo so I could easily have a photo for that section. ;)
Each one of those data fields can be put on any page as you see fit, and there is just a “53-17” option if you want to put that as a small text block on another page.
Hi Ray,
Great site, I would be lost without your indepth reviews.
I am in the land down under and I have pre-ordered the edge 1000. I was told that it would be available at the end of April. That fell through and now I am being told mid May, but reading one of your above comments you are saying June.
Have you had any word from Garmin on an actual release date?
I’ve read the blog and all of the comments here and my head is about to explode. I’m debating between the 1000 and the 810. The $100 rebate on the 810 is only through May 31st. The 1000 feature that is most interesting are the notifications and better resolution but in not sure it is worth an extra $200. At the end of the day which unit would you reccomend?
I don’t feel the better resolution is worth it. Notifications would be a personal thing. I’m not sure I’d spend the extra $200 for just that.
I do suspect/expect that we’ll see additional features down the road however on the Edge 1000 that may make it worthwhile, that won’t be ported back to the Edge 510/810 for hardware compatibility reasons (primarily around lack of Bluetooth 4.0 support).
Once I get my test unit tomorrow (French customs willing), I’ll be able to have a better feel on where things stand.
I’ve used the 800 for several years now and use the navigation features extensively. I do think (hope?) that the larger screen size and resolution will actually make the 1000 much better in this regard. The problem I run into quite often with the 800 is that there’s just not enough detail on the map screen. Inevitably, on every 70+ mile course I follow, at some point the 800 will tell me to make a turn, but there’s so little detail on the map I’m left confused as to which turn to take. And if I need to figure out where I am by zooming out on the map screen, again, there’s often so little detail and contextual info that I’m left scratching my head trying to make sense of the mess of spaghetti lines representing roads.
If, by contrast, I compare the 800 map screen to that of my iPhone, there’s no contest. The iPhone map, with it’s larger size and greater resolution provides the detail needed to quickly ascertain my position and route options. Obviously, the 1000 won’t be able to match an iPhone for display size and resolution, but my experience does suggest that the improvements to the 1000 screen have the potential to improve the usefulness of navigation with a Garmin.
Many would wonder why I don’t just put my iPhone on the bar and use it as my computer. For someone just starting out with cycling computers or rides less than 100 miles/week, I can understand how sensible that seems. In practice, however, there are just too many reasons a dedicated computer makes more sense for me and many others. It’s been discussed to death by others but I’ll add my reasons: Battery life, weather-proofing, adequate mount options (I’ve seen far too many phones fly off bars), a barometric pressure sensor for accurate elevation, screen readability in sunlight, form-factor, durability, ANT sensor, physical buttons, etc.
I’ll also add that I have many friends who have no need for navigation on their computer. They just want GPS to upload their rides to Strava. Everyone (obviously) is different. If you’re interested, though, in exploring new roads and riding long distances, I can’t overstate how much enjoyment a computer like the 800, 810 or 1000 can add. Here’s hoping the 1000 I have on order will make navigation even more enjoyable for me and others who appreciate its features.
Can’t wait for the review. I like what I see so far (I’m coming from 810 that was a big disappointment over the 800, not sure anyone was happy with the 810) I hope the “processor” gets a good boost, I find the 810 struggles with the detailed Garmin Topo maps and crashes occasionally if you try to do too much moving around on the maps. I guess it’s the same processor that was in the 800, and probably the 705. I wish it was snappier.
It’s actually interesting. There doesn’t appear to be. I was noticing that this afternoon (production unit arrived).
There is the ability to create separate activity profiles (as introduced in the Edge 810), however, there now is a single ‘communal’ sensor pool. You can name sensors as you wish (i.e. Road Bike Cadence) and also enable/disable sensors as well without deleting them.
I haven’t yet thought through the full implications of that (good or bad). In some ways, it’s nice because I just load up all my sensors and it automatically uses the right ones when I move the bike (cadence, speed, power, etc…). Since you still configure wheel circumference by a given sensor, that’s all fine.
Activity profiles appear to really take care of the rest. I’d be curious if there are any other things I’ missing there in that line of thinking.
I picked one up in my LBS tonight (in SoCal) for a friend.
They had two today and one was already sold. Rather annoying cos I pre-ordered mine from CleverTraining on the first day of this review. Hope it doesn’t take a long time to ship!
My LBS (Trek Store in Ohio) has them on order and apparently Garmin is shipping them on May 30th. So yes, interesting that Joe already got one – good for you!!!
I know the formal review is still pending, but what is your quick impression – nice or not really all that?
Also, what options will the D-Fly give me, basically just the gearing? Or does the production unit have any additional info.
Finally, my 800 is kinda weird in that the course and timer functions seem “separate”. meaning that if I start the timer and just ride on the course, the unit won’t auto detect the course – as it does when I had my 510. Is this due to an old firmware version on the 800? I am assuming the 1000 builds off of the 510 and will have this feature back in?
I actually like that about the 800, and have read with some concern reports that it’s hard to keep the 810 from navigating/following a course. Most of the time I’m riding courses that I’ve ridden hundreds of times before. I don’t need to be told if I’m on course or if I’ve left it (for good reason). If I want to navigate a course or follow a route, I want to be able to decide that for myself.
I see your point, but the alternative is that you never know when you’ve actually started or stopped a course. If I start a course in the middle and want to get turn by turn, it will keep trying to navigate me back to the front of the course. And I “love” the glitches of when you turn off the course navigation and it conveniently stops tracking your route when uploading to strava.
Don’t mean to sound sarcastic, but I just liked to 510 software much more than the 800. Hoping the 1000 will carry that forward.
I still don’t understand why these units are so expensive, I have the 810 and in terms of navigation it looks like a 20 years old gps device, with a very outdated and ugly screen resolution. If you think of Heart Rate monitoring it is as simple as any 50$ HRM watch so it doesn’t make sense to me these extreme price tags but for some fancy crazy reason we still buy them….though now I am from the opinion that if Garmin does not enable BLE and ANT+ at the same time on this unit I will not upgrade.
I just got my Edge 1000 yesterday and cannot find an odometer. I suspected it should be listed under the speed sensors, but there is nothing there. I searched the manual but there’s nothing about an odometer. I hope this was a mistake and it will be added on the next firmware release!!
Can we scroll through the data fields pages, map without starting a ride?? Quite a few changes from 810. But I guess as you said this is not an upgrade but a whole new thing..
Let me know when you get it going. I’m very interested to see how the D-Fly integration works. Is the gear change display very responsive or is there a delay? Also if you can mention all the different data fields that are possible with the D-Fly.
This will really help me make my decision to pull the trigger or not. Thanks
I believe the appeal is primarily for mountain bikers actually, who may want to change data fields/screns but not be in a good position to remove their hands from the handlebars. I see less appeal for road cyclists, though slightly more appeal for triathletes in aero bars with the buttons out at the end of the aerobars.
I’m a roady and an MTBr, and although there is more usefulness for an MTB, I would still find use for it on my Road bike. My rational is that when I switched to Di2 I held off for a while debating whether $100 was worth it for the climbing shifter, and after caving in shortly after going Di2, I would now not do without it. Its so nice to shift without moving your hands if you are on the tops.
I’ve had occasion too whilst tucked on a descent to want to change screen, and at 50 Mph or so, you don’t really want to be moving. I will buy one I think.
Do you happen to know if the cadence/speed sensor from this package will be available separately? Also has the heart rate monitor changed at all or is it the premium 2013 heart rate monitor?
Yes, it will. I pre-ordered mine a while ago from CT, and it’s now listed in stock, so I hope it won’t be long. Going to put this one on my mountain bike, since a GSC-10 would never work there.
Paul is correct. In fact, I’ll dive into it in more detail on my Wednesday post.
As for the HR monitor, it’s simply the Premium HRM3 one, but with post July 2013 firmware, so it’ll have a lot of the spike/dropout reduction smarts in it.
Still couldn’t figure out how to pair the D-fly…definitely interested in knowing what the trick is, as I am sure I am missing something. I did both what Shimano recommends, I.e. Disconnect the battery or unplug/re plug the unit’ s cables. I started with the latter as my battery is internal…no joy!
Have you made sure that all your components have the latest firmware with the Shimano etube project software? If you have the external battery then this involves buying a separate interface, however if you have an internal battery, then you already have the hardware required to do this with the charger.
Hooking up to the PC will also show you if the D-Fly is responding. I checked mine already, and it shows it as present and that the firmware it shipped with is the current one.
I still don’t have my 1000 yet, but will trying to pair it with my friends one on Tuesday.
I had a quick try earlier and had no luck either. Since I don’t have an extra etube cable, I just had it plugged in instead of my left shifter for the time being.
Will try a bit more tonight after unplugging everything else too.
OK I now have mine linked to the D-Fly, and my earlier problem was due a brain fart where I plugged it into the front shifter wire that I removed from the front junction box, and forgot that it should’ve been the other end that I needed to plug into :)
Anyway, with the above said, it was still a little bit problematic to pair and what I did was remove all of the other etube wires, and then plug in on its own temporarily. This is likely similar to removing the battery, since that was isolated from the front junction box when I unplugged everything, and this saves taking the seat post out.
Once plugged in on its own, it would only appear briefly on the pairing screen, and I had to select it and press add really quickly. This took a few tries or so, but now its working. Just need to get my 150mm E-tube wire now (cant find it in the USA, and had to get one from the UK), and I’m all set.
Here are some Pics of my install using a modified Tillquist Garmin mount which I had to add longer bolts and some bushes too: link to onedrive.live.com
Morten, if you are reading this and don’t have your edge yet, you need an extra 9mm added to your mount.
Ok, please let me know. My battery is internal, and the unit is responding because the shifting works when it is installed. Not sure if that means I have the latest firmware, buy will check. The bike is in a box now ready to go for a triathlon next Sunday, so it will be when I get back…
Just having it in the loop doesn’t really mean that its working or responding since I think these things are all just wired in parallel, and it wouldn’t stop the other stuff working. You’ll need to use the connection check feature of the e-tube project software for that.
You didn’t mention the addition of GLONASS along with traditional GPS. Anything worth reporting? Or do you have to test it in Russia to notice a difference?
It was introduced with the Edge 510 in Garmin fitness devices. There are pros and cons to it, most times it helps, but sometimes it can result in oddities. There’s a good blog out there by GPSTrackLog that details a bunch of scenarios.
Why is this!? Is this intentional to try and push ANT+ to the exclusion of other technologies. They’re beginning to feel more like Sony in the 90s or Apple to me.
Well, both Sony in the 90s and Apple today have better technologies (regarding Apple, at least in some areas). ANT+ is obviously better than Bluetooth for sensors, so why wouldn’t Garmin push it?
Not necessarily so Paul and I have no strict objection to them pushing it but not at the exclusion of other technologies.
There’s not real issue with bluetooth HR sensors is there? Why wouldn’t Garmin include it, baffles me, the technology’s there… and the point is proven in that they’ve lost a sale from me.
For example, Sunday I took my road bike out for a ride. I used my Edge 800, my VIRB Elite, and I also was wearing my Fenix because I had just upgraded the software and wanted to try it out. All three were connected to my GSC-10 speed/cadence sensor and my HR belt. You simply can’t do that with Bluetooth because of the master/slave requirement ( yes, I’ve heard about the rebroadcasters, but that seems like a stupid solution to a problem that’s caused by using the wrong communication protocol in the first place). The problems are with the Bluetooth protocol, not with the sensors. Bluetooth is great for some things (I use Bluetooth headphones, am typing this on a Bluetooth keyboard, etc.) but it’s not equal to ANT+ for activity sensors.
I’m not arguing that ANT+ isn’t a good technology or perhaps even superior. I’m simply arguing that I’ve used bluetooth for many years with my phone for HRM in conjunction with ANT+ for speed/cadence with no issue at all. I think Garmin are being slightly arrogant to dismiss this customer base when the technology is already built in to their hardware now. Perhaps they have a large enough user base that they don’t need to but still smacks of a little arrogance to me.
How. I order from Garmin (and one fromAmazon) and no deal on shipping – Amazon says mid to late June ;-(. Where can I get one now? I need it by June 6th
You can also support the site via Clever Training (and save 10%). My understanding is about half the Edge 1000 backorders will clear out today/tomorrow, and the remaining half should clear out next week should nothing change. For now though, to be cautious, the CT site says early June. As always, you can simply cancel in the event one of your other orders pops sooner.
For the Edge 1000 you’ll need to join the VIP program, which only takes a minute (and has other benefits beyond just the 10% savings). Details are here: link to dcrainmaker.com
My Edge 1000 works with my Tanita BC-1000 scale, and uploads via my phone and the connect app. I suppose if I leave it longer it may sync over wifi; I’ll try tomorrow. Any you get all the details not just the headline weight.
Well I just unboxed my Edge 1000 and to be honest I’m a bit disappointed (bear in mind I’ve not actually ridden anywhere yet).
There seem to be some missing features that I had on my Edge 810.
There are no bike profiles so I have no idea how it would work if you had different sensors on different bikes, also no way of setting the odometer for your bike (mentioned already I think).
There doesn’t seem to be any way of getting the Virb remote screen to appear, either by going into settings or being able to add it to your list of training pages. I can add the Virn remote and have a couple of options – manual or auto start stop. I can’t figure out how to start / stop manually. I have looked for a way of adding it but can’t see it anywhere.
No course training page.
There is a lap info training page, no idea what that is for or when it appears.
The software version updated to 2.2 when I plugged it into the computer, my edge 810 just updated to version 3.0 so maybe they have not released the latest software version for the 1000 yet.
OK, I have now done my first ride with the Edge 1000 and have a few more things to report.
I have found the Virb Remote! There is a whole other menu that I hadn’t found before that you get to by pulling down from the top of the screen (much like the android notification screen). In there you have the Ege Remote controls, details of connected sensors, Power meter calibration and the current weather along with a few other things I can’t remember.
Personally I think that I prefer the old Virb control – much bigger buttons easier to hit when moving but the pull down menu is nice.
No Text / call notifications on Android (this was probably widely known but I had missed it).
Segments:
Segments are quite nice but could get quite annoying popping up all the time. No idea how it will cope with overlapping segments.
It would be nice if you could set alert level:
Always, only when beating previous time (be it personal best or KOM), only when you have beaten previous best, off.
I was alerted about a few segments I had set up – including segments for my route home – going in the other direction for example.
Nice, large screen looks really good and much easier to read than 810.
Just as a minor note on the Segments, it’ll only load segments that you’ve sent to your device. Meaning, it won’t randomly pull up every segment along the way.
Will this device fit on a K-edge mount? Looks a bit long. I was thinking of one to go with my 500. Garmin must have realised just what a fine device the 500 is for racing.
How does the Segment feature compare to the VPU functionality at the Raceshape site (link to strava-tools.raceshape.com)? From your description it looks like the functionality is exactly the same except that the VPU functionality works for Strava segments and give you the opportunity to compete against anyone who has ridden the segment and not just the raceleader (or KOM in Strava).
The VPU functionality works with every EDGE except with the 810. Given the fact that Garmin now releases a device with their own version of this functionality I suspect that this not working on the 810 and they have not been “able” to fix it in 15 months maybe this was a strategic choice at Garmin instead of a bug?
I haven’t used the VPU functionality, but knowing a little bit on what it’s doing it’s basically making a short course that you try and beat. But it wouldn’t show you upcoming segments or make it seamless. Meaning, with VPU you’re basically going out on the hunt for segments – you’re manually loading each one in before you arrive at it. With Garmin Segments it just happens as you ride around town and through them.
It’s interesting it doesn’t work on the 810. Kinda odd because I’m not aware of any ‘breaking’ changes there. As far as being strategic in breaking it on the 810, honestly, you’re given Garmin too much credit there…
The VPU also works seamless but you can only load one segment at the time. It will also tell you exactly how far it is to the start of the segment and how you are doing during the segment and when the segments ends. But you have to load the segment manually upfront or during the ride which you have to do (at least for now) on the 1000 as well if I read your first look correctly.
The 810 still does not allow you to ride courses against a virtual partner without workarounds. When ever you want to start a course, it still resets all settings and goes into navigation mode. You can manually reset this (every time!) but during a ride this is too complicated and dangerous. I have been battling this issue with Garmin over a year.
So it sounds like the difference is that on the Edge 1000 you’d pre-load all the segments via Garmin Connect for anything you’re interested in. Once you start the ride though, it’ll automatically take care of any as you near them. Meaning that unlike VPU/800, you don’t need to manually load each segment as you near it (so no limitation of one at a time).
For example, on my ride I did last weekend, I just created 3 segments around town and then wandered into them they automatically triggered.
I’m going to do a bit of a ‘Garmin Segments 101’ post likely this upcoming week explaining it all, and how it compares to Strava segments, as well as what I like and don’t like (a pile of both).
I’m looking forward to the full review, Ray. I’d very much like to know if the audio navigation prompts, (the ‘beeps’ signaling the need to turn when relying on the device’s navigation feature,) are transmitted to Bluetooth headphones, or are they only emitted from the unit’s speaker itself?
Will the new Edge 1000 display other rider’s positions etc? I don’t want to have to pull out my phone and internet to track another rider while I’m pedaling to meet them. A scrolling display of teammate data would be cool (but likely illegal in races).
I’d like to see OnStarish airbag deployed functionality to send alert texts/emails based on phone accelerations and other available data.
I just got mine from clever training – thanks Ray – and all is well so far except Bluetooth notifications. They don’t work and I don’t even see where you turn it on in the iOS app. It has live track, weather etc – stuff that is same as 810 – but nothing for notifications. This was something I planned to use for sure. Is there a trick to get this on? I have the latest garmin connect app on my iPhone 5s and it connects bluetooth just fine.
Forget that – I figured out that it needs two bluetooth connections – one smart and one BLE. Of course, bluetooth is completely unstable and thus unusable since it constantly drops off.
And, unlike the FR620, you can actually setup WiFi directly from the Edge 1000 (of course, as Manuel noted, you can’t use any WiFi that requires entering a username/password on a webpage – ala Starbucks/etc…).
I’m looking forward to the full review, especially about segments since I am not able to upload my new segments (everything looks good, files in New files folder, but nothing under segments on the unit)
Also hopping there might be a way to export/import Strava segments…
Yes, that is correct. I have created 8 New segments and there are 8 files on The New files folder on The unit but notthing if i tap The segments icon. Also try to send from The connect app on my iPhone but that failes.
Yes.. I figured this out yesterday as well. I’d make a segment and the download would never make onto my edge.. Woke up the next morning and tried to download it again and it went through.
I guess the moral of the story is that you can’t sync a newly created Segment until a leader board has been built by Garmin Connect..
I can’t seem to find the reference. But I thought that the Garmin Edge units were not able to report data from all of the sensors (strain gauges) for the SRM power meters. If memory serves, the Garmin Edge units gather data from two of the eight available.
If this is correct, then does the 1000 gather data from any more sensors than the 810 if you have an SRM or process that data differently in any way? I’m dubious that they would do so as it would differentiate what is essentially a competitor’s product. But I find myself naively hopeful anyway.
The SRM power meter transmits power based on all its strain gauges, and then the Edge 1000 picks it up using the standard power meter profile.
I suspect you may be referring to a specific mode of the SRM power meter head units to do higher frequency sampling than once per second. This is pretty much only used in track cycling though.
Thank you for your email and I apologize for any problems you received while placing your order. The DCRainmaker coupon code is starting to be phased out as we initiate a VIP program in conjunction with DCRainmaker that offers members the same advantage of receiving a discount on all non sale or clearance items listed on our website with additional support and offers. Please visit link to clevertraining.com to view the full details of the VIP program and feel free to respond to
this email with any questions.
Yes, that’s correct. For a handful of items (which does include the Edge 1000), you can still save 10% by joining the VIP club. This is outlined up above at the end of the post. Though, I can see where there’s some confusion with the accessory table having the coupon code listed (since those work with the code). I’m working on correcting that – sorry there!
In any case, the VIP club comes with other benefits – including support the charity ‘Girls on The Run’. (as well as of course supporting the blog).
How do the segments work on the Garmin? Do they only work if you use a route with the segments included, or if I just ‘put’ the segment onto the bike and cycle to the start of the segment will it recongise the segment and then start the ‘countdown’?
It’s free-form or with courses from Garmin Connect. So on Sunday when I rode back from the river I wasn’t using a course (just free-riding), but happened to come across a segment I had downloaded onto the Edge 1000. As I approached it, it triggered an alert (countdown), and then it allowed me to race it.
Just as another FYI – for those that have ordered from Clever Training, all Edge 1000’s that are backordered, as of now will ship out to you by the end of the week. Cheers!
Hi, Ray. Read all your reviews. Nobody else comes close. Forgive what’s probably a stupid observation. I’ve own a number of Garmin and Polar devices. I’ve always been frustrated with the way Garmin devices count calories. Always seems about 40 percent off of what a polar device suggests. Maybe Polar is wrong, but you’d think that they’d end up closer than 40 percent. Anyway, it may be too soon to ask you this, but does Garmin’s Calorie Count seem a little more accurate on this one? (I realize it ultimately doesn’t matter. You burn what you burn. Still, everything else about the Garmin devices are so good. Plus, if you are counting calories, it’s useful to know approximately how many you are burning with exercise. All the best, Jeff
don’t know if that helps…
On my last ride:
Edge 1000: 323 calories and 322kj (from my Vector).
The difference between the calories and kj was much much more different when I was on my Edge 800. (Like calories were almost double the jk). Now they almost seems the same.
Well, Google makes it easy to find that 1 calorie is 4.18 joules. I’ve read that humans are about 25% efficient at converting calories to power at the pedals (there must be some variation among individuals, and trained athletes are probably more efficient), so multiply calories by a factor of 4. So it’s roughly a 1 to 1 correspondence between kilojoules measured by a power meter and calories burned. So your numbers seem consistent to me.
Maybe that’s why Garmin doesn’t use Firstbeat for cycling. Cyclists (willing to spend the money) can measure something that more directly correlates to calories burned than heart beat, and Garmin is willing to sell them a Vector to do it.
The difference is that between counting total calories burned during the activity, and calories burned less what one would have burned while channel surfing on the sofa. Or, to put it the other way, the extra calories burned by the activity.
Hi Ray – I dont know where else to ask this; but has anyone tried with Garmin Express to upload anything yet?
It was the first time today – just returned from a ride plugged in the old Edge 705 (yes I still use one) and when I clicked Upload in Garmin Connect (yes I only use that to register my activities) it redirects me to down load Garmin Express – I have a Mac.
So I did; but when I synced it, it downloaded stuff from 2010 already there in Connect, and stopped any activities younger than a month, so basically no new activities can go on.
Not so impressed so far – probably Garmin will say Edge 705’s not supported etc, have fired off a n email to Garmin support ; but I doubt to hear anything useful from them, interested if anyone has had any similar issues. here.
Cheers
Pat
Most of the newer devices work fairly seamlessly, however, I think some of the older devices are having some issues. I’ve loaded about 15-20 different devices into my Garmin Express without too much issue. On occasion it hiccups, but for me it’s gotten a lot better in the last few update versions.
I have seemingly heard more issues though from folks on Mac (I’m largely on PC).
For what it’s worth, my 705 works with OS X Express, although I don’t want to try to link it to Connect and then have to delete all the duplicate tracks it would send there. It’s detected and shows up as one of my devices in Express.
But something was wrong at Garmin today. The forums erupted with people complaining about manual uploads being broken. At first I thought it was just the usual “where did they hide manual uploads in Modern”, but as it turns out it was broken in Classic, where the upload button is on every page. So maybe you should just try again; there have been a few posts saying that the Upload button is back to normal.
Thanks for the replies Ray and Paul,
Yes it seems like yesterday was not good in Garmin land.
I tried again this morning, and got the “classic” dashboard back with the nice simple upload, and choice of New activities.
I have quitted Express as it started to auto sync too.
Pretty interface; but not fit for my purposes.
Just be aware that Express is the way Garmin wants you to interact with Garmin Connect now. You will be switched to Modern and Classic will go away. You can still do manual uploads in Modern, but it’s not on every page and they’ve made it hard to find, at least at the moment. Also, Modern doesn’t use Communicator Plugin at all, so if that’s the way you upload to GC, say goodbye to that.
Do you know if the “Firstbeat” technology is a matter of a firmware update, or is it a hardware issue? If it is Garmin’s most accurate caloric burn algorithim, why not bundle it into all of thier equipment? I appreciate all of your work you put into your site! Thank you and keep up the excellent work.
I’ve discussed it a few times with them and their leads for both the cycling and fitness division. I’ve never gotten a really good answer at why they’ve held off on introducing it on cycling. Their general belief seems to center around the idea that it’s more widely used by runners than cyclists. While probably true, i’d argue that’s likely because they’ve only enabled it on running watches.
With the algorithm already built, I wouldn’t think it would be hard to add it into the firmware…or cost very much for that matter. It would make sense to me to bundle in the same accuracy available in their running hardware. I’m just spit balling here…
I just got an Edge 1000 with bundle at my local REI. They just got them in and only had one. I don’t know if they also have the non-bundled version. This is at the REI in Tustin Ca.
Also it came with software 2.10 and there is an update to 2.20 already waiting.
Changes from version 2.10 to version 2.20:
Made various improvements to segments.
Improved ANT sensor reception.
Improved Bluetooth connection setup.
Fixed issues with connecting to some Wi-Fi networks.
Improved Edge Remote connection reliability.
Mine must have been in the second batch and is scheduled to arrive today. Can’t wait. How do we handle the multiple bike issue? Also, I assume I can google transferring data from ride/course history from my garmin 810 to the 1000?
Multiple bike issue is sorta half-baked right now – at least if you need/care about individual odometers. For that, there’s no solution. Otherwise, it works fine with sensors automatically connecting based on you getting on a bike.
For transferring data, there’s never been any way to load historical rides into Garmin products unfortunately. You can just copy courses over though, that’s not a problem.
Yesterday when my edge 1000 arrived, I plugged it and my 810 into my Mac and dragged all of my 2013&2014 ride files into the new folder of the 1000. Same with the courses. All transferred over to the 1000 ride history. Is it ok to do that?
Unfortunately they’re globally backordered with virtually nobody having them. They did ship out units back in April (and Clever even had them in stock then, as oddly enough I saw them while I was down there). But Shimano definitely under-estimated demand.
Your best bet is calling a bunch of local bike shops to see if any might happen to have one. That’s what happened to me here in Paris. My LBS couldn’t get one, but managed to find another place across town that had a spare one sitting around.
I just received it. Now I’m on the lookout to buy a short cable…there was only the transmitter in the box. I thought it was also coming with a 200mm cable.
If they had a mind to, they could record what gear you were in without needing to have Di2 etc, all they have to do is have a simple algorithm manipulating the cadence versus the roadspeed, for bit more effort you could enter your chainrings and cluster to be sure, to be sure. Mind you I haven’t worked out what I do with the information that I went up that hill in a 50″ gear versus a 46″ gear or whatever…
Lots of complaints on Garmin’s Edge 1000 forums about touchscreen locking and bluetooth failing. What a surprise that Garmin would release a flagship expensive product with obvious bugs… link to forums.garmin.com
I’m almost afraid to look at the forums for fear the problems might be catching. I would have thought I am using a fair bit of the functionality:
Stages power meter
Scosche HR Monitor
Garmin remote
Linking to garmin connect via android phone
Live track
Have not used courses yet.
After two rides and 80 miles, my initial impressions are:
Bright beautiful screen.
Touch screen much more responsive than 810
New UI is nice and more intuitive
Enjoying the remote but didn’t use it much
Used live track today and worked with no drops
Boot time is quicker, much quicker.
Like the new UI for ending rides
Now you can see temp, time and battery life at the top of the screen.
Over all very nice upgrade. I’d it worth $600?
I rationalize every gadget upgrade. I sell the old one on eBay and the incremental cost to have the latest is not that great. So I wouldn’t pay $600 but will pay about $200.
Completed my third ride today with the edge 1000.
My phone is a Note 3, on Att and running kitcat (latest android)
The unit worked well. No screen freezes.
I start it and it picks up my power meter. I rode a mile to the start of the ride, and then turned on my new Scosche HR band. I expected the 1000 to start showing HR, but it did not. I had to go not sensors and find it. Then it worked. Thats a glitch I think. Just before the ride start, I looked at Garmin Connect on my phone and the device was already connected to the 1000. I initiated Live Tracking to my wife. We rode about 50 miles over three hours. I used the garmin remote to change pages just to get the feel of it. At the end of the ride, I ended it and clicked save. It went through the save sequence and immediately uploaded the ride to my phone and Garmin Connect. That never worked so well on my 810. So the ride uploads to Garmin and within an hour to Strava ( because I have set up synching). So convenient.
I’m sorry so many are having problems. I do wonder if they are the exception or am I. Cheers
I’m done. This device is going back. I’ll keep using my 510 which it took them a year of firmware upgrades to get right. I’m not going through that again. I posted this on the Garmin Edge 1000 forum.
“Anyone returned theirs yet or thinking about it?
I’ve had it with the bugs, specifically screen locking and bluetooth connection. Garmin should not have released this device in this condition but anyone who uses their products should not be surprised. i sure shouldn’t but bought one anyway. I’m pretty close to taking it back because something that costs this much should be right out of the box. it took them a year to get decent software running on the Edge 510 which I still own and I am probably just going to go back to that.”
Pathetic Garmin. Get it together. Get some real developers for one and some testing processes for another. Or stop releasing products to customers when they fail at basic functionality. Like being able to use the screen.
When I was a kid I was in the men’s corner at birthday parties, being a boy. Off course they were talking about cars. I remember they had a rule: never buy a new model right after it has come out! Cause then it would still have to go through the childdiseases! (expression in my language)
You wanna flash? Then accept the risks!
In my opinion this is a highly questionable device.
I use 310XT & 810 models. But I guess next step will be the phone. (soloists in quiet/remote areas have to take that anyway)
I totally agree. Life is a risk/benefit ratio. I would likely wait a year on a car model. Very high cost, less so benefit. On consumer tech devices, I always have the latest smartphone and the latest Garmin. Why? Relatively low cost and I like being an early adopter. And if you buy from a reputable firm like Clever Training, you can even return it in 60 days. That’s amazing. I will get a front row seat as Garmin competes with Strava for segments, text notifications get worked out and get to see how Di2 integration works. This may not be the most practicable approach but is sure as heck is fun. Each of us gets to work out our own risk benefit ratio. Cheers. Loving my new Edge 1000
I want to like this device, really I do – as much as anyone who’s just spent over £400 on a new toy. Sadly this thing just wasn’t ready for release.
So far:
Screen locks randomly and frequently rendering the unit unusable.
Bluetooth connection is very intermittent.
Bluetooth smart will not connect.
WiFi will not connect.
Unable to load either TCX or GPX files onto the unit.
Unable to load segments I’ve created onto the unit.
Unit will not calculate power zones from FTP.
Ray, I hope the unit you’ve got for testing is better than mine – otherwise you’re really going to struggle to find something positive to say about it.
Screen locks are the item du jour (err…du minute). Constant. I see Garmin has said it’s planned for an update.
Bluetooth is rough for me.
Di2 has some odd UI/entry bugs that they’ve confirmed will get fixed.
WiFi and Segments are fine. Haven’t tried FTP.
In general, the one that irks me is the first one (screen lock). It’s basically like someone said “screw it, ship anyway” because it impacts every single unit and is so astoundingly obvious that it’s mind-boggling.
I can ‘forgive’ rare bugs, or bugs that are hard to re-produce. That’s normal. But the screen one is just so obvious. The Di2 one kinda falls into that category as well, since it’s clear nobody even tried setting it up, since it simply doesn’t save any settings.
On the Bluetooth side, that’s more complex. It’s complex from an Apple standpoint because Garmin is using both BLE channels (for notifications) as well as legacy BT channels to accomplish what they want. Thus, it’s messy to setup and I’m not 100% clear where all that blame lies.
I will say that (for me), the Segments piece works well…if only I didn’t actually have to create all the Segments myself first. I guess I don’t get why Garmin didn’t seed major cities with popular Segments. I sorta would have thought Paris might be considered a major city. And there’s basically no Segments in Paris outside of ones I’ve created (and a few other people in the last couple weeks).
When are the screen locks happening? I went on third ride today without one. Used power meter, HR monitor, live track, remote but not courses. At the end of a two hour ride, saved the ride and it was still connected and uploaded via my samsung Note 3.
same thing for me…I’ve used it today for a 3hours ride and not a single screen lock-up.
Used livetrack through my iPhone 5S, received a few text from my girlfriend (really hope we could see the content and not be forced to pull on the side of the road to get the phone out of the pocket) and the unit uploaded my activities through Wifi as soon as I got back home.
So far everything is good on my side! (firmware = 2.20, with Garmin Vector, HR belt from the Forerunner 620 (HRRun)).
I also got a “Severe thunderstorm” alert at some point…looked behind me and the sky was all black…I cycled fast fast fast home, but got caught up 2km from home and arrived all wet!
The only screen lockup I got was last week-end when I paused an activity for a 15-20 minutes and the unit went into sleep. When I got it back up I got the “screen locked” message. I had to reboot and everything came back and not a single issue since.
Hi Ray,
Long time reader…first time writer, thanks for this information, it/you are quite the resource!
I have a question regarding my new 1000 and it’s connection to my iphone 5. In simple testing with both devices sitting next to each other on the counter, the connection between them and/or the Connect app toggles between connected and disconnected. At times, they register the proper connection via Bluetooth, then…poof…connection failed. This also manifested itself in a test ride yesterday when live track failed to work. Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong?
Thanks, GP
I wish I could provide some guidance there, but the BT connection has become just as finicky for me as others. It seemed fine my first ride or two, but has gone downhill since.
My first several rides went well too, upgraded to the 2.20 and started having BT issues and segments I created are waiting for leaderboard to be established.
Called Garmin and they said to Google DC Rainmaker and he may have more info because he did a review.
Training efficiency could be a cost for Garmin, BUT the 1000 is not coming for free and for an high level device i would expect something more VS the 810
Thanks anyway, after further reading it seems this is certainly widespread. Maybe the boatload of $ we all paid will further the development of the fixes…sounds strikingly similar to disease research/ fundraising to me…
Carlo, I just upgraded from the 810 and like the 1000. Garmin will iron out the glitches I hope. The 810 was introduced over a year ago. So it makes sense it’s 30% less. The 810 is a good unit. Only you can decide if the new features are worth it. Better/ larger screen, better UI, test message notifications, etc.
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Thanks Ray, an excellent first look. To pick up one thing…
“Not so much because I care to text or call anyone while cycling, but simply to know if The Girl has texted me 28 times in the last hour trying to get ahold of me”
This is an interesting step along the ‘always on’ society and peoples expectations of your availability as it can present you with a dilemma; do you abandon your training session because the rabbit needs to go to the vet (a noble cause) or now choose to ignore the alerts (you cad).
I use LiveTrack so my wife can see where I am, it gives her peace of mind I’m not in a ditch / having an affair but the one way nature of it is ok for me. I guess I’d just turn the alerts off :)
Mentioning the new cadence sensor is like the Wahoo RPM… I swapped the garmin unit out with the wahoo rpm unit on my 810 and it works… it does not show it’s connected (either did my garmin most times) but I get cadence data ? Maybe the Wahoo unit is not BT 4.0 ? Since it worked I didn’t dive deeper into it.
Hmm, neither I nor Wahoo are sure what you’re seeing there to be honest. I checked with them, and they’ve never shipped any dual BLE/ANT+ units yet for the RPM (the chipset simply isn’t there for ANT+).
In trying it myself, it doesn’t pair with anything. As if only thin air is around. I wish I had an idea what’s going on…very odd.
Maybe you have a powermeter installed and it informs your Garmin the cadence data…
I have a couple of questions for Ray about Edge 1000 (currently using Edge 705);
1) Does the unit support multiple SIZES of fonts while looking at a map?
I tested the Edge 800 units and noticed Garmin changed characters on its maps from UPPER CASE on 705 unit to lower case. Edge 800 offered three size selections for names of streets, user points, etc., but only smallest size characters were displayed. Very difficult to read…
2) Does the unit show in color the START point of a route? Or, perhaps it displays some type of a color icon? I have suggested this for several years since 705 was introduced – enabling rider to clearly see the START point when zooming out. This is an important feature especially when riding in unfamiliar locations.
3) Does the Altimeter and GPS work well? I found that Edge 800 (tested three units) was very inaccurate with regards to Ascend, % Grade, Altitude and often indicated my bicycle being 30-50ft off the actual road
Are we going to have to wait a year for usable software like the Edge 510?
Question : Will a Garmin 810 work with cadence/speed sensors I bought for Garmin 510 ?
Yes, the sensors work with the Edge 510 as well.
Thanks rainmaker! I can feel confident buying a garmin 1000 or 810 and use the 510 sensors I got with it.
I do indeed have a power tap… I was unaware it did anything but power ?
The PowerTap transmits power, speed, and estimated cadence. By default, all Garmin devices will show that data automatically (as well all CycleOps devices). Well, in fact, just about every ANT+ power-meter capable device will show it all by default.
I didn’t know Powertap sends speed data.
How do I know what my 810 records/displays? Speed comes from GPS, then GSC10 and cadence from the latter.
Hi Raul-
I’ve put the exact order here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Check out the sections for each sensor type and the order. Cheers.
This was a quite unexpected announcement for me, and one I’ll certainly pass. The only new feature I find interesting is the call/sms notification… but then the unit is almost as big as a smartphone, you could just attack your phone to your handlebar instead of keeping it in your backpocket.
Now the question is, will the next Edge be a direct replacement of good ol’ 500?
I have the Edge 800 and 500. To me, the 500 is the ultimate race computer: light, shows power, records everything for later. I don’t really like looking at anything other than power during a race or hard ride. HR just freaks me out – how can I maintain that leve for long? For racing, right now the 500 all you need. For training rides, I use the 800.
Some great stuff here Garmin. Well done. But will it allow me to upload to Strava without going all the way back to my PC at home? Garmin, if not, grow up. The world has moved on from your mediocre Garmin Connect. Please open up the ability to easily upload after the ride, during the ride, to the site of our choosing – Training Peaks, Strava, whatever. Otherwise it’s just another lame product update. Garmin, your competitive advantages are in your great hardware and mapping, not social sharing and fitness training web sites. And btw, 15 hours battery life is not always enough. It’s a step backwards. Arghhh.
>And btw, 15 hours battery life is not always enough.
The devices are chargeable. Even if you’re riding constantly for over 15 hours, there are chargers that let you charge while you ride.
They could have easily fit a larger battery in the device if they didn’t try to make it that much thinner. Sure there are chargers that would work, but if you’re just doing a long single day ride the battery should be able to last the day. If battery life rated like the 810 then those 15 hours are for a best case scenario without the backlight being on at all. Sometimes on a sunny day the backlight is needed to be able to see the screen clearly and in those conditions I’ve come very close to running out of battery on my 810. (being a bigger screen I’m guessing the backlight on the 1000 is an even bigger drain on the battery)
So sacrificing battery life to make the unit thinner is a bad tradeoff when the 810 wasn’t that thick to begin with.
Agree. Garmin continuously promoting Connect is like Microsoft promoting Internet Explorer. They’re trying to increase marketshare on Connect but in the end it’s going to cost them share in hardware. Additionally, a bit silly calling the data fields “Di2” since other electronic systems could easily provide a channel for gear ratio. Garmin really scored big with the 500, almost by accident, and they’ve been struggling with vision of what these units should be doing. The call feature may be nice but that was sort of dictated by competition from phone apps.
And if you are showing the map page, that will equally suck down the battery. My Edge 800, rated at about 15 hours, will run out after 7.5 hours if I leave it on the map page, even without the back light. If I leave it on a data page, it will easily run a full 15 hours with HR and power meter sensors.
The issue with big batteries is people like me will weight the thing and if it’s 5 grams too heavy, it gets rejected. But on the other hand, it needs to last a double century with decent probability so I’d consider 12 hours reliable life, after a bit of aging, to be an absolute minimum for utility. The thing is the tried-and-true Edge 500 is both light and has good battery life. They seem to have abandoned that market (small, compact, and simple unit with focus on recording).
Hi Frank, I own a Garmin 810 and have set it to upload direct from Garmin connect to Strava. This requires a little bit of software available if you google. In fact it all works seamlessly, I ride, the phone loads from my 810 to garmin connect and then it automatically appears in Strava. Easy ! Just need a new pair of legs and lungs like Indurain and i’m sorted.
Experienced the same thing, but thought that my mind is playing a trick on me.
The battery life is really depending on what screen/page you are watching on the 800.
So i created a screen with 8 fields and barely switch to the map (only if i need navigation or direction and so on) and tadaaaa the batterly-life is amazing :) (compared to running it on the map screen all the time (with 2 additional overlaping datafields)).
Frank. The ability to do this is already available on the 810. If you have garmin connect on your iPhone. Once the ride uploads to your phone you can set garmin connect to send the data straight to your STRAVA account. No need to connect the device to the computer at all.
Sorta. Today, it takes 3rd party options: link to dcrainmaker.com
Ray, Does the text notification only show who texted and not the actual message? Thanks,
John
Exactly what I was wondering. Would be way more useful if you could see actual messages via text, and therefore know whether they are urgent etc.
Wow! Just when I was looking for a replacement 800, thinking I would have to wait for the 900 until at least November and then this news come now?!
One awesome error: Call and text notifications: “Edge 10000”
I wonder when we’ll see that model!
Thanks for the quick look. Totally agree with the BT/ ANT comment. Always afraid to buy Garmin first model. Had a tough time when the 810 came out… thought my 800 was the ultimate. Look forward to your review & thanks again for all you do for us.
Agree. I have a 510 that finally works and just bought an 810 that kept randomly shutting off. I’m a lot more interested in Polars new bike computer than anything new from Garmin. Especially for $599.
Any feel as to whether the build quality has gone up and does the flap that covers the ports look any better than on the 800/810?
I’m thinking about getting another garmin with a larger format screen, but the GF has had numerous problems with her 800, often with firmware issues that have needed factory resets or waterproofing issues that garmin resolved but took a very long time.
To spend that sort of amount on a bike computer I’d want to know it was going to be a bit more reliable. Obviously I don’t expect as waterproof as my 910, but failing after riding in heavy rain doesn’t really cut it in the UK.
They separated it into basically two flaps, which might help a little bit because they are smaller flaps for those areas and seat a bit better. We’ll see how it works in real life though.
I have also had some problems with the rubber flaps on the Edge 800 in heavy rain
Am disappointed that this new model won’t be fully waterproof. I would gladly spend 600 on a waterproofed Edge unit
It’s waterproofed to IPX7, which means that it can withstand 1-meter deep immersion for 30 minutes. I’ve tested this in the past with other units, with the flaps open (including the Edge 800): link to dcrainmaker.com
just to confirm – tanita scales ARE supported (hurray !) ?
Yup. :) I confirmed it in the menus, and have a photo of it too.
Interesting developments indeed. I guess the touchscreen is still resistive? Personally I’d much prefer a capacitive touchscreen for setting things up and actual physical buttons for flipping through display pages etc.
According to the information on Clever’s product page it doesn’t seem like there is a new speed & cadence combo sensor, if you want both functions you can simply buy a bundle of the two individual sensors at a discount. I was kind of wondering how it could possibly work otherwise! The speed sensor attaches around the hub by the way.
On the speed/cadence sensor page, you’ll just need to use the little drop-down box to select the others. Cheers!
Ray, if you get a chance and you know, can you explain how the speed-only sensor attaches? Based on what I can gather, it appears to have two pieces. I understand it uses an accelerometer and attaches at the hub, but I can’t visualize or understand how it would be installed. Also, I’m not certain there is an actual combo speed/cadence sensor (both units in one housing). It appears that if you want speed/cadence you simply order a combo package that includes both the separate speed and cadence sensors. Thank you!
In response to my own comment about how the speed sensor attaches to the hub, I’m guessing attaches similarly to the one shown here: link to prweb.com
Correct, that’s my understanding as well. In fact, I’m starting to believe that the combo kit is simply just two separate sensors. It’s part of my clarification list I’m sending over shortly with any remaining items. I’m trying to get an actual photo on a bike to validate that piece.
So the speed sensor on a hub (either?) and the cadence sensor on a crank arm? So finally I should be able to get speed/cadence on my MTB, where a GSC-10, or anything else with magnets, would never work. If you can, see if you can get us some idea of the price for the sensors.
The price is $39 for either sensor, or $69 for ‘both’ – with the definition of ‘both’ being slightly unclear. Hang tight…
Ok, I’ve confirmed with Garmin that the combo sensor package is simply just the two individual sensors packaged together.
Hi Ray
Excellent first look. I noticed you wrote that the Di2 funtion would work with DA 9070, Ultegra 6870 and 6770. You did not mention DA 7970, perhaps on purpose?
The three newer groups use Shimano’s E-tube communications standard, the older 7970 does not. No way they’d spend development resources on an ANT+ transmitter specifically for an already obsolete group.
Yup, Mayhem is correct, it’s those that use the E-Tube communication standard.
The new segment functionnality is a really good news.
When I discovered Strava, I hoped it will be generalized to all other system because in bike I think it’s a must have. I’m using it not to compare myself with the others, but with myself and it’s an awesome indicator.
I hope it won’t be available only on new devices…
Has the edge 1000 a kapazative glass touch display or it is a resisive touch
Hi Destan.
Like other Edge units it uses a resistive touch screen, which means that water and gloves are not a problem.
I really hope this is a catalyst for Strava cleaning up their segments because it’s getting ridiculous now. Fair enough, let people create as many private segments as they like, but the number of public segments that are duplicates, extremely minor variations or completely useless due to errors in original GPS trace are just making the whole system a complete mess. On a recent ride the number of segments topped 200 and I don’t want to scroll through all that rubbish to see how I was doing.
Actually, it is a capacitive touch screen, also with ambient light sensor automatically adjusts screen brightness to improve visibility and save battery life.
More information can be referred from:
link to cyclepowermeters.com
Yes, I have confirmed with them that it is indeed capacitive – which is different than all previous Edge units. However, the light sensor has actually been in all previous Edge units, just the implementation of it different (it controlled screen inversion, not light).
Capacitive touchscreens are a PITA with full fingered gloves for cold weather rides. :-(
That’s what I thought, too, but you’ll notice if you go to the Edge 1000 page at buy.garmin.com that they claim that “Unlike your smartphone, the display is optimized to work with gloves and in the rain³.” I’m sure Ray will cover that in his full review.
Well, it’s indeed different than a traditional cell phone. I’ve already seen that in my rides with rain (actually, all my rides have been in the rain). A traditional smartphone display would be useless, but this had no problems. I’ve gotta break-out the glove bin for my review to show a video like I have for all other touch screen products.
Previuos models (Edge 800, 810…) did not have an ambient light sensor. They “knew” when sunset and sunrise happen based on your location.
Anyone know where the dual BTLE/ANT+ sensors are going to be coming from? Of everything in this overview, that’s the most interesting tidbit to me.
Wahoo has committed to it by the end of the year, but I suspect we’ll see others before then.
I’d love to see running supported. Not for wrist mounting but I do a lot of running with my daughter in a jogging stroller and currently use my 800 with it. (Use my 620 for solo runs.)
Interesting, that’s actually the first time I’ve heard a fairly valid argument for including the ‘run’ pace metrics. Especially with landscape mode that would fit much better on the stroller.
Damien, just use a small piece of pipe isolation foam and attach the 620 to the stroller instead. :-)
With the bigger screen and maps the 800 really comes into its own on vacation runs in new places. (Would not want to get lost with my daughter in tow!)
And less weight on my wrist, (although not really an issue with the new 620.)
Good idea Knut but it’s more about the bigger screen and maps.
Question regarding using the 1000 for running. As a triathlete, this would come in handy. I use my iPhone now with an armband and simply use the Nike+ running app. I am assuming the 1000 would still work in this regard?? I assume it would track distance, map route, and track time. Would it not also track pace, minutes per mile, etc? What am I missing when you say it does not work for running. Thanks.
It doesn’t show pace, only speed. Thus, only 8MPH, not 7:30/mile (or metric equivalent).
Nice preview, looks like a nice product. I would really like to see it in action in combination with the Virb. Hope Garmin will maken some kind of bundle that makes it affordable. This unit AND the Virb together are way too expensive (for me that is), I think about 800-900 euro’s. If they could make it about 500 euro’s for a combination package it would be great.
Please, Garmin, add support for the remote to the 810. Not all of us need or want the size of the 1000 on something like a mountain bike, but we NEED that remote! Both for lap markers and the Virb!
No Android connectivity for incoming texts and $599? I will pass. Drop the price and add Android connectivity and I am in.
Android connectivity is planned, but there isn’t a timeline established.
I think Garmin are losing the plot a bit with these bloat devices – but I suppose this is an attempt to keep the hardware business turning over.
Android and iPhone devices can now do more and more with ANT+ and BLE connectivity. They have better quality screens and you have to carry them anyway. Plus if you mount on your handlebars (not to different to mounting that monster on your bars) then you also have notifications! Plus you can chose the best software, devices to integrate with and where you upload to rather than be locked into one eco system! The only negative at the moment is Phone battery life and water proofing. Once this is nailed then why would you need separate hardware? If the next iPhone had a 2 day battery, water proof and ANT+ connectivity then the game would really change!!
I think Garmin should be working on their App software also and improving integration with other devices and app sites – they day is coming when it will be all about the apps!
Completely agree! You can buy an unlocked iPhone for the cost of the Garmin 1000 which has a smaller much lower resolution screen and doesn’t have anywhere near the processing power. I just can’t believe that a bike computer now costs as much as a smartphone given the complete differences in hardware/software abilities
The price is a bit outrageous, but IMO all of the cycling computers, including Garmin’s, are overpriced. Then again, even the most successful cycling computer probably won’t match a fraction of the sales that one Samsung entry level android smartphone reaps up.
Personally, I was super happy to return my smartphone to phone duty, and actually I like using an old dumb phone with keyboard (the blasphemy!) as my cycling phone: for one, I don’t have to worry about fighting the touchscreen if I have sweaty fingers.
Unless all you do is ride 2 miles per week at a leisurely pace in fair, not too cold, not too warm weather, I can’t really see how you do NOT realize how unpractical smartphones are as head units.
Good point about the touch screen – yes a bit of a handicap with Gloves and Rain!
At the moment I have my Edge 510 which is a nice piece of kit (if you ignore the firmware bugs for now!) and gives me all the info I need – except for notifications! While my phone is in my back pocket it pings and i don’t know if it is an important message or another Facebook invite to Candy Crush!!! So as Edge 510 does not have BLE then no notification features are on horizon, so I now use a quadlock to mount iPhone on bars also, great for view only of notifications as they come in.
I think the point is that the Edge 1000 is completely over the top, I feel that the head unit should just be a cheaper display device, all the hard work (ANT+, BLE, WiFi, 3G/4G and processing) can already be done by smartphones so why not concentrate on Apps using head units as displays? I think Wahoo and Strava are on the right track with the Cheap RFLKT Bike Computer.
At the moment I sync my Edge 510 with my iPhone using the Garmin Connect App, I then use tapiriik to automatically send copy the activities to Strava.
So if Wahoo or somebody else can make a cheap display head unit that looks a little bit more polished than the current RFLKT and if battery life improves on iPhones while running with Strava then I will be converted. Until then I might be tempted by a future Edge 520 as a stop gap if it supported notifications and was not a stupid price.
I agree with Steve – a remote display is the way to go. We need better GPS built into the phone, but it’s only a matter of time
The biggest problem with using a smartphone instead is that for a majority of phones out there, the GPS receivers get much poorer reception/accuracy than the ones in the Garmin units. A smartphone maybe passable in open flat terrain, but they totally choke in canyons and mountainous areas where even the Garmin units can struggle. Strava is littered with segments with inaccurate distance/elevation data from people who uploaded the segments from a smartphone.
” . . .you have to carry them anyway.”
No, you don’t. In fact, you don’t even have to have one at all.
Good to see there’s more people who have made the same, quite logic, analysis I did a while ago!
Back then my conclusion was that Garmin should buy a phone manufacturer! They didn’t.
Splitting display and processing is the solution for the too big size and the the shock and waterproof aspect.
The fysical remotecontrol should have been there some time ago. (I think it existed in the Cateye era) Now it’s time for voice control!
Strange how they keep on coming up with answers on questions that no one asked.
While overlooking things that would be worthwhile!
I love gadgets and bikes, and especially bike gadgets, and this is well executed, BUT… I think now we’re getting to the point where all this is a little much. I would want the president to have this amount of connectivity so he can know he needs to fire nukes back, but thinking the rest of us are that important is kind of silly. And how much engineering are we pouring into a device so we have every metric imagined for every wireless protocol just so 99% of the users can see stuff when really all they need to do is just ride more? Honestly, most bike computers should simply say, “MORE.” or, “IS THAT ALL?”
I remember hopping on my mom’s bike and resetting that little mechanical gizmo on the front hub that counted revolutions and estimated miles. That was pretty cool and all we needed back then. Sure, more is better, but you reach a tipping point where it eventually detracts from the meaning/purpose of the activity.
Retrogrouch moment over. :)
even though the unit is much bigger than the 800/810 the actual screen doesn’t seem much bigger..what’s the screen size difference ?
Does it support GLONASS – makes a huge difference to speed of GPS lock and accuracy on EDGE 510?
Yup, it does.
Has the EDGE 1000 a Kapazative Glass Touchscreen?
Or is it a Resisive Touchscreen.
Like other Edge units it uses a resistive touch screen, which means that water and gloves are not a problem.
Edit/Update: I have confirmed with them that it is indeed actually capacitive – which is different than all previous Edge units.
nice review!
but what about satellite connectivity? does it supports GLONASS?
Yes, it supports GLONASS.
Great review!
I think that there are just 2 magnet-less sensors (speed and cadence). The speed sensor has two parts (sensor+sleeve). The combo contains both sensors in the package for better price (as I understand).
Will the speed sensor work with older (i.e., Edge 800) Garmin models?
Three questions:
1) Does the gearing info only display gear position? Or can you preload your actual gearing to show the actual gear tooth?
2) The gearing displays all have bar graphs to indicate gear with a number. Was there an option to display only the numbers (ie. 39/16, 53/12) to preserve display space for other metrics?
3) Is the segment feature based on a constant pace (not useful if terrain varies) or does it use the leaders real pace for a particular portion of the segment?
1) Yes, it shows gear number, based on first configuring your cassette/chainring sizing.
2) Yes, you can do a smaller data field (half-size)
3) Not sure on that.
it’s not possible to change the sizing of the cassette/chainring (yet)
Yup, that’s indeed correct. Well, technically you can change it, it just doesn’t save it. Rather annoying.
If Garmin plays this properly, and enable Segment Real Time Challenges on all the devices, allowing automatic upload via phone and segment notification plus have similar challenges as in Strava all that for free (they will also need power curve, time in zone etc, performance manager) people will move from Strava. I will, and many of my friends will in a heartbeat.
Single most annoying item is not having ability to upload instantaneously to Strava without connecting to the computer, WTF we are in mobile era now. Second is inability of segment notification, there is no single app that would say/notify/vibrate/bip eg. 50m or 100m before segment start/end and let us know the segment is there.
Garmin nailed it, but they need to add few items around power training to their Garmin connect site, current reports are joke no TSS, no IF no performance management chart, no power zones no HR zones, with their resources it should not be a big deal. Garmin connect needs few features and will be really nice, but before all that happens not much will change.
Whoever will make iphone app (Strava segment notification) will have instant hit and millions of downloads.
Cliiiimb by 4iiii does this. But the audible alerts only work with the Sportiiii. That’s probably limiting them from the millions of downloads.
Speaking of the mobile era: What about using the Strava mobile app to record and “having ability to upload instantaneously” ?
I think everyone predicting a mass transition off Strava is forgetting that one of the main selling points of Strava (and other social networks like it) is that it’s device agnostic.
A lot of people who buy Garmins actually got hooked by using it on their smartphones, I’d go as far as to say if Garmin is smart and has the cash (honestly I have no idea how much Strava could be worth, but if I had to take a guess, I’d say not much for the likes of Garmin), it should just buy Strava and call it a day.
Garmin buying Strava has been done to death….. it ain’t gonna happen.
I’d agree that the acquisition boat has sailed. And, I know Garmin themselves would admit that missing that boat was a substantial mistake. Time will tell whether adding in segment support to their key units will drive consumers to GC vs Strava. I think they’d have to make a concerted effort across the Edge units as well as the higher-end running units (i.e. 620).
The inertia required behind people migrating from one social network to another (fitness or otherwise) is huge. Strava is a lot more established than Garmin Connect on the social side of things and to get people to move they’re going to have to start offering a lot more. Moreover, they’re going to have to massively improve the user interface, because at the moment it looks like a half-finished high school IT project. Case in point, I don’t know many people that train at an elevation of 300m below sea level, so why do the graphs autoscale to that on a flat activity and why are most of the data points chopped out? I know a revamp of GC is in progress and I hope they fix things like that, rather than just a facelift as the ‘/modern’ pages look at the moment.
Another huge part of increasing their user share would have to be offering a free smartphone app for people new to fitness tracking i.e. a revamped version of Garmin Fit. Again, why they haven’t done this already is a bit baffling, it’s an obvious gateway to get people established in their ecosystem. I don’t want to go on a rant here, but you’re doing it wrong Garmin!
>The inertia required behind people migrating from one social network to another (fitness or otherwise) is huge. Strava is a lot more established than Garmin Connect on the social side of things and to get people to move they’re going to have to start offering a lot more.
I suspect with this (if it catches on) that we’ll see most of the popular segments replicated in GC as a way to get the instantaneous feedback, but the main database will still be on Strava. Unless GC has a quantum leap I don’t see where it makes a dent into the momentum Strava has.
Yes, in that regard I think Strava are already shooting themselves in the foot with their complacency. As I commented above, the number of duplicated and erroneous segments is getting completely out of hand in my area and the decent segments are getting lost-in-the-noise of all the crap that people put on there. I know you can star your favourites, but to do for this every place I ride would be a massive ball-ache. IMO Strava should start regulating public segment creation at some point.
I’d appreciate a stripped-down set of segments on GC, but they’re still going to be chasing the social-networking and user base of Strava for some time to come.
GhostRacer a free Android App also lets you know when there is a segment and see the KOM or PR (if you have downloaded it) as a “ghost” to train with or race against, in real time, displaying comparative speed and position audio visually.
GhostRacer downloads “ghosts” (past KOM times) and uploads to Strava from your phone too.
Like Cliiiimb, GhostRacer is also dangerous imho because it facilitates real-time virtual racing on non-cordoned-off public streets. Take care.
The one feature I find missing in the 810 (and I can’t see it has been remedied in the 1000) is the ability to transfer activities from Garmin Connect to the device via bluetooth. You can do this with courses but it would be great to land in an area, find an activity and send it to your device. I like the call notification addition as I get distracted by the phone ringing in my back pocket and then thinking about who might have called me until the next stop.
Did you mean for this to be no for the 1000? SENSORS: DI2 SHIFTING INTEGRATION
Thanks, corrected!
Hi Ray and thank you for the heads up on the latest Edge,
When you say that the Garmin Edge 1000 has a higher resolution. What resolution are we talking about and what resolution did the Edge 810 have?
In a real situation, how much better is the screen in regards of navigating with a Garmin map. Is the visibility of a route more easily read and can I have a lower zoom level and still be able to read important map information like small roads, village names and so forth.
Best regards,
//Peter
Wonder if there will be any planned connectivity with Garmin’s Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems in a Presta version. Or connectivity and functionality with the Shimano CM-1000 camera that’s coming out which has built in ANT+. Not that either are critical, but would be nice to see if Garmin is starting to think smarter instead of their historical trend.
I do think the big determining factor in this devices success is if there’s a way to link to Strava, and of course if they enable the Bluetooth.. knowing Garmin, I doubt they will, therefore I see this product being a flop at it’s price… and very few people upgrading from 500, 800, 810’s.
Phones are 90% there, one or two more generations of phones, and Garmin’s cycling business will instantly vanish.
Any sense if the price of the 810/510 will drop because of this announcement? I have the 500 and like it, but to keep my wife in the loop I also ride with my FR 620 and phone so my wife can track me. If the 510 price dropped to the ~$275 range I’d very happily make the upgrade so I could ditch my watch.
The 810 has dropped via the $100 rebate. And the rebate for that unit is on for some time (I believe till the end of May), thus, that could be seen as a new baseline price, but I’m not aware of any pricing changes that have been communicated.
Helle
Have you tried landscape mode and you have some pictures of it where you ride and with speed, cad, power data on the screen?
No, it’s not yet in the firmware (it’ll come a bit later in the spring post-launch).
Hi Morten,
I’m particularity interested if this will fit your awesome mount, since I have one in use with my 510 currently, and I’d likely switch to the 1000 if it fitted. If it didn’t would you consider either making another special one, or maybe a shim to bring it further away? Another cool thing you could do anyway is perhaps do one with an integrated Di2 EW90 junction box mount too? I have mine zip tied to your mount currently: link to onedrive.live.com
Ray,
Would you be able to perhaps measure from the center of the mount to the bottom edge?
Richard
Hi Richard,
Yup, I’d be happy to measure it. As soon as I have a unit again (I temporarily had a unit, but had to give it back), then I’ll be able to again.
Cheers.
For the record, if the text and call notifications WERE via magic, I’d definitely pay $600 for this device. I second that it would be nice to see the text of the text message in the notification, but that my be a notification center limitation.
Do you think Garmin will ever launch an Edge Phone? Perhaps a partnerships with Google is in order? The two devices (Edge series and smartphones) are certainly on a converging path.
Garmin actually did have a phone line at one point. It failed. That said, they come really close to it again right now with the Monterra outdoor unit (which does have a bike-mount). That unit is a beast, but runs Android and has ANT+ support. Unfortunately, aside from being a beast, it doesn’t have BLE support, and runs a very old version of Android.
That said, I personally think that’s the platform of the future.
The inability to show message text/caller ID is not an Apple limitation – the Pebble does it quite handily.
When doing the final review, please emphasize competing products a but more. Mio?
Yup, I’ll discuss it more there where appropriate in sections.
Rainmaker: as always: great reviews….Why don’t you review the bryton rider 60 (about 7 months on the market)
link to corp.brytonsport.com
Can compete with garmin 810 (bigger screen, bluetooth v4,…)
Does it record r-r HR data? (You knew I had to ask :-p )
Guessing by you saying the unit is faster the map draws much faster? Sometimes the delays in the map redrawing while following the purple line can get annoying. Hoping this will also make scrolling the map faster/easier so maybe it can keep up with the scrolling.
You mention a higher resolution screen. Is that just cause its physically bigger or is it a higher dpi too? If higher dpi are the taking advantage of it on the map screen by being able to show more detail using fine lines? Maybe more text labels on roads so easier to know what a road’s name is. Sad they don’t decrease the border on the left and right as it would be nice to see more to the sides without going landscape.
Is sunlight visibility better then the 810? Hate needing to use the backlight in the bright sun just so I can see the screen which then makes me worry about battery life.
When is the wifi actually on on the device? What type of Wifi is it? 802.11ac? Sure, the speed doesn’t matter much but if its not 802.11ac and the wifi is connected to your 802.11ac home network then it will slow down your home network.
DI2 gearing data fields show graphics in the data field. Any other data fields do that? Say a line graph for power data, would be cool if the graph could be behind the full number of the current power (well, 3 second avg power)
If segments are just on the 1000 then there won’t be enough people to compete with. Ok, I’m in the DC area where there is enough money spent on bike stuff to open the only Assos pro shop in the US so maybe not an issue here but….
If the device is so expencive and seems to have a more powerful CPU in it, any word on if they will treat it more like an updateable unit that will get new features in the future like their outdoor devices and fenix) and less like a consumer electronic device like the current edge devices that while they get bug fixes don’t really get new functionality?
RE: R-R Data
No, it does not.
RE: Faster
Overall feel is faster, menu’s, and the map.
RE: Sunlight
I didn’t have any particular issues taking those shots in sunlight.
RE: WiFi
It’s enabled when you upload, like the FR620.
RE: Other Di2 Gearing fields
Beyond the fields shown in the ‘Choose Di2’ fields topic, that’s it.
Eli, only Garmin knows that BUT in the past Garmin updates past units only if their market goals demand it. For example they launch a new product like their Power Meter pedals and they know that no new bike units are due soon, they update the previous products. In the case of the Fenix I think all the updates are due to the original product not meeting market expectations and trying to make it a more competitive product.
So, will many future enhancements come to the 1000? Maybe, it certainly has a better chance than the low-end, lower cost units… but it all depends on if Garmin thinks those enhancements better serve Garmin vs. you.
IMHO the only company these days that really delivers on new features and enhancements to their products is Apple.
Oh, for resolution it’s:
Edge 1000: 3″ screen at 240×400
Edge 810: 2.7″ screen at 160×240
David, I know that’s how Garmin has acted in the past. I’m asking if there is any indication they will change. They are releasing a device that’s $200 more then their previous high end unit so maybe its not too much of a stretch that the increased cost will allow it to get new features added like how they’ve treated the fenix watch.
Notice how the Addidas smart run watch keeps getting new functionality added and Mio added functionality to their cycle computers?
Ray, Sunlight: The 810 looks good in the pictures too but I know in direct sunlight you kind of need the backlight on to see the screen well which can greatly cut into battery life. So hard to tell if anything improved
Hi Ray,
Has Garmin said why no R-R Data? I’d like to see this in an Edge unit or implemented on Garmin Connect to capture any supported devices/HR straps. I’m wondering if there is a reason such as technical, lack of demand or even aversion to giving health advice related to heart rate data?
Cheers,
Ben
We’ve discussed it a bit, but honestly, none of the answers really hold water. They have alternated between it bloating file sizes, to only being applicable to a small number of people. Obviously, I’d argue the same is true for running, but yet it’s still there.
Perhaps one day it’ll change.
Nice writeup Ray- ALWAYS look forward to what you think and say and always support you with my purchase habits! I was just about to pull the trigger with the 810, but this might be a game changer since I was after a larger screen and owning two Di2 bikes, the Di2 integration would be convenient. Do you know if Garmin would even consider any firmware upgrades to incorporate the Di2 capabilities into other units like the 810 or are they going to make me fork over more cash to but into the feature?
Hi Dkevdog-
Yup, see within the post where I noted that Garmin is ‘reviewing’ whether or not to add Di2 support to the Edge 510 and 810.
I DC, nice review :)
I’m kind of confuse…
Does the device broadcast BLE Smart and ANT+ at the same time?
For exemple, if I have the Polar H7 that will count calories and show me HR during Exercice?
The unit will transmit information via Bluetooth to your iOS/Android device (such as speed/distance/locale/power/cadence/HR) for Live Tracking, while concurrently talking to ANT+.
It does not however connect to Bluetooth Smart sensors, like the H7, at this time. Technically it could be enabled, but it’s not there today.
Tks Ray!
Thanks for an interesting first look at this new device. As Garmin moves forward with their development it appears that they are ultimately going to cross over into an area where a consumer would need to make a decision, ‘do i need the large Garmin with me or do i need my cell phone?’ A lot of what we are seeing here is available on cell phone apps and it will not be long before a kid in his mom’s basement builds all this into a very low priced app available for iOS and Android.
If we think back to days of the portable GPS devices for your car supplied by Garmin, Magellan, Tom Tom etc, their market share has faded considerably. We’re now getting free map updates for life as a way to promote sales of these products but still we see the sales fall away. Why pay for it when you can use a cell phone for the same function?
Garmin needs to be looking at the market, on most rides people have a cell phone in their back pocket, we don’t want it with us but we have it ‘just in case’. We don’t want another huge device with us that really serves little additional benefit.
I have the 510, it’s small and compact, the only thing lacking is the real time segment function that would be an awesome addition to the 510 and 810.
OK, i’m off my soapbox now, for me, the 1000 is not on my Christmas list this year.
I completely agree with what you have said. I was looking to replace my 500 with a device with mapping and had gravitated towards the 810. However after reading about all the issues that are still present with the Edge 810 I was hanging on for a new device from Garmin. This however is not the device I was hoping for but its give a very good indication of the direction Garmin are heading. I might as well use my iPhone with a Quadlock and use that whenever I ride somewhere new. In fact I might like it that much that I go and buy some Wahoo sensors and a RFLKT and dump the Garmin altogether.
Playing devils advocate for a bit…
If the price were low enough… and I mean in the hundred-150ish USD range… wouldn’t you want a dedicated device on your bike (or even more than one) so you don’t have to deal with your phone?
Or… it you’re dropping five large on a bike, maybe it should just come with it.
Can’t say I agree with that….. look at the cost of your average smartphone that is of the correct specification to replace say an Edge 810. Over its contract period of say 2 years your looking at a cost of around $1000 much much more expensive than a dedicated unit. The phones battery life sucks when you add full GPS and sensors so are you going to get full coverage for a 6+ hour ride? also you have the problem of getting a phone signal out in the sticks not to mention possible crashes and or theft of a very stealable object.
I might be a touched biased as I can afford both but attaching a smart phone with all the (personal) info you put on the average phone to a bike seem crazy to me!
BTW I carry a small cheap non-smart phone for emergencies which only the wife has access.
I agree – that thing is ENORMOUS. You kind of wonder what’s the point of having a separate device when it’s almost the size (and price) of a smartphone anyway. The whole point for me of having a dedicated bike computer (instead of using the Strava app or whatever) is that it’s small and discrete. I’m normally all for gadgets, but I don’t want the most obvious thing about my bike to be the massive touchscreen on the stem.
Everyone keeps comparing this to cell phones. One big difference is this is not a “Personal Audio Device” per USAT rules. You are not allowed to ride with a smart phone in a USAT race. That is the primary reason I am looking at getting a dedicated head unit for my bike. That said, I don’t know if I need this much of a head unit, but I would probably consider it future proofing.
Is it possible that the edge 810 is getting an update with some off the features off the 1000 like the incoming calls.
The specific features they are reviewing possibly adding to the Edge 510 & 810 are: Di2 support, basic segment support, Edge Remote support.
Does the odometer go beyond 42,000 km yet? If you configure the bike with an odometer of 50,000 and then restart the unit, does it read 50,000?
As far as I can tell it’s a FIT file type limitation (fit_sdk.h: FIT_UINT32 odometer; // 100 * m,) but I guess they could extend it by adding an odometer-wrap counter.
I really hope so. Honestly when I purchased my 810 I hoped they’d add it with a firmware upgrade down the line, because doing so would be trivial for them to do. Its such an obvious feature.
I’ve gone from Edge 500 to 800, to 510 and have been happy with the improvements each time… until lately I’ve recenlty had, and continue to have, problems with the bluetooth connectivity to iOs. Since Garmin recently updated the firmware for the 510 AND the Connect app I haven’t been able to blame specifically one of the other. Spent time on the phone with Garmin support, did a Master Reset to restore the connection only to have the whole issue start back up again. I hope that the bluetooth code for the 1000 is more in-tune with the current version of the app…
As a road cyclist absolutely nobody I know uses Garmin Connect to share their ride data. The Garmin Connect ship has sailed along time ago. Garmin would be much better served partnering with Strava rather than ripping off Strava features. Ultimately they are selling devices, and Strava helps them sell devices so its idiotic to not partner with them to sell more devices.
I probably fall in the target market for this device. I have a di2 bike and I tend to buy the latest gadgets, but this device really adds nothing of value. The di2 integration is nifty but how does that help my ride? Plus I have to buy an additional shimano accessory to get it to work.
This meh release follows the lackluster 510 and 810 releases. The 510 was so bad that I returned it and went back to the 500. There is no compelling reason to buy the 810 over the 800. As for the 1000, I like the screen and the thin profile, but that’s about it. Its certainly not worth the $600 investment. That money would be better spent on a Stages crankarm.
One thing that was not mentioned in this post is the weight of this device which comes in at a porky 114.5 grams compared to 56.7 grams for an Edge 500 and 98.0 grams for an 810. People who buy Di2 bikes and $600 bike computers tend to count grams.
Garmin really doesn’t seem to get it when it comes to their cycling devices. The level of complacency due to almost no direct competition kills me. Give me a device that weighs as much as a 500, with a high res display, and integration to Strava. Thats something I will pay $500 bucks for but this device is D.O.A. until they drop the price. Even then, I’m sticking with my 500/800 combo.
But many, many road cyclists DO use Garmin’s and therefore the data is going to Garmin Connect. IF (huge IF) Garmin got their act together with Connect and had the same and better feature set then Strava there is a chance it could make inroads against Strava since so many are using it anyway and it is one less step and site to view. The problem is Garmin’s dreams for Connect are just that, I see no evidence in the Disaster (with a capital D) of a launch of their new “Modern” look that they are anywhere CLOSE to having a great website that users will gravitate to, at this point it doesn’t even really work.
Just because road cyclists use a Garmin device doesn’t mean they use Garmin Connect. I use my Edge 500 almost exclusively with CyclingAnalytics and Strava. I rarely use Garmin Connect, because Connect is quite poor compared to the rest. Possibly the only thing I used to prefer to use Garmin Connect for was routing, but Strava has made great strides catching up on that.
On a sidenote, Garmin Connect is the best .fit to .tcx converter that I know of.
It’s very useful e.g. when working with virtual power.
I agree with Alex, as a 500/800/Strava/TrainingPeaks/WKO+ dedicated user.
I am a professional business strategist and also an avid road cyclist, I think Garmin is making a HUGE mistake not integrating with Strava real-time into their 1000 unit, including notices of upcoming segments, etc. The Strava community is very, very hooked, despite certain issues discussed above. (For all I know, it’s Strava who is not working with Garmin, but the result is the same). These two companies would be so much better off working together. Then, Garmin would re-establish their innovation in cycling units, and cyclists won’t be tempted to migrate to their smartphones to do the same. For Garmin, smartphones are the ultimate disruptive technology, and Garmin must stay ahead of the game to continue to survive in this segment of the GPS market. And we cyclists really want Garmin to succeed and continue to innovate for us cycling nuts.
The point is: Garmin just isn’t going to get a critical mass of users and historical data on segments on Garmin Connect – just ain’t going to happen with their target market of cyclists. It will be link Bing – everyone uses Google, game over. And I think Strava will up its game in response to this Garmin effort to compete and switch users (nothing stands still when competition is involved, I have found).
On the other hand, if Garmin worked with Strava segments, there would be many, many folks that would shell out the $$ for this unit for their training rides (not race – see my other post – weight an issue – stick with 500). In fact, when someone told me today about the Garmin 1000 news, they thought it did work with Strava as that was only natural. When I found out oherwise (thanks, RAY!), I was shocked and disappointed. To the Garmin folks – please listen to this advice or ignore at your peril.
Now, on a related note, it would be great if Strava and TrainingPeaks worked together, too. Their both cloud-based SaaS (software as a service), so should be straightforward.
While I’d much prefer see Strava integration, I do think some folks aren’t realizing the volume of data that comes through Garmin devices to Strava. Or said differently, how dependent Strava is on Garmin data. The amount of data on Garmin Connect for routes dwarfs that of Strava. And while Strava has segments and leaderboards, if the first ‘data stop’ off of a Garmin device is initially always Garmin Connect, than many users will simply stop there.
By the same token, I do think we’ll see better integration between Garmin and the likes of major service-only players such as TP and Strava in the near future….
As far as them working with Strava, it would be good if they could, however it isn’t the end of the world, and I expect some clever individual will work out a way to perhaps create duplicate segments (some sort of web based tool to export/import (maybe even Garmin should do it)). In any case what counts is that once somebody does that in the Garmin world, then you’ll get the real time feedback that’s close enough to let you know if you are ahead or behind a segment.
All my rides since 2009 are on both Strava and Garmin anyway (I expect a lot of folks may do the same), so even if I was to try and create my own segment manually (as close as possible to a Strava segment), then I benefit in both worlds…. more so on the Garmin front since it will be less cluttered, and due to less people using it, I also get a ranking boost on most segments :)
I’m most interested in the new sensors. Did Garmin say if these sensors will be backwards compatible with older Edge units? To be clear, is the cadence/speed combo unit magnet based?
I don’t worry about the sensors not being compatible with other devices in the future as I’m not interested in using my phone as a cycling computer and am happy enough with Edge unit.
Yes, the new sensors are simply standard ANT+ Device Profiles, for ANT+ Speed/Cadence combo, ANT+ Speed-only, and ANT+ Cadence-Only. All of which are supported on recent Edge units. I can’t quite remember offhand if the older Edge 705 supports speed-only and cadence-only sensors. But I know everything since then does (as I use speed-only sensors in power meter testing).
Ray,
Good job on the 1000 pre-review as is all your work.
Just wondered if the separate magnetless speed and cadence sensors will work with the 910xt or Fenix2.
I ride a recumbent which the current Garmin speed/cadence combo sensors will not work nor can be separated.
Secondly, I wondered if the new cadence sensor could be used while running…that is if one does not have the Garmin hrm-run strap?
Thanks
Yes, the new sensors are simply standard ANT+ Device Profiles, for ANT+ Speed/Cadence combo, ANT+ Speed-only, and ANT+ Cadence-Only. All of which are supported on the Fenix2 and FR910XT.
Hey Ray,
Since you stated being open to feedback about Ant+ remote support for other Edge units I am saying I’d love to have the option with my 510. Sometimes the swipe function to change pages isn’t very crisp so using a remote simply pushing a button sounds nice! Especially when I don’t really have to look at the unit to change screens or lift my hand off handlebars!
Just wanted to let you know!
I really really like the inclusion of the OSM maps- especially because they include trail data. I use touring and having mountain bike trails available is absolutely killer.
How is the screen? Is it brighter? Looks more like a phone screen than the older Garmins.
I am also really excited about the remote. Not having to take the hands off the bars, especially during a race or on rough pavement is going to be quite handy.
Funny, I just sold my edge 810 and “downgraded” to a used edge 705 for $145. I forgot how functional the 705 is. Screen seems better to me than the 810 (brighter) and interface is easier to navigate (for me).
Now I do have a fenix2 which is why I downgraded the 810. But wowsa, I can’t wrap my head around $600 for the 1000.
The most obvious take-away from this IMHO is that this is a predecessor to the first Garmin bike computer with a direct cellular connection. Garmin seems (like many other companies) to want to have the Apple type of business model where they control the entire stack from software to hardware to ‘cloud’. Therefore, they’re not interested in developing apps for andriod, rather they’re probably going to release their own flavor of andriod for fitness on their own hardware. It only makes sense, but they’re probably feeling pressure… Samsung already has a waterproof (IPX7) phone that has Ant+ and BTLE built in, they just need apps. Having now seen this device, I don’t think it’ll be long at all until you can buy your garmin edge 2000? 1020? at your local Verizon or AT&T store with a subsidy and/or cheap contract.
My poor English doesn’t let me understand all the tech. features. I hope that the new device would show “power” based on HR, as it does by powercal/cycleops. Technically, it very easily carried out.
No, it does not make any sort of computed power estimate based on HR.
Ray, what is the magnet for? It is used to measure the speed? For example, the speed shown in the Edge 500 is measured by GPS or Magnet?
By default the speed shown with an Edge 500 would actually use the speed sensor if configured, over GPS. However, the data recorded is from the GPS (kinda confusing, yes).
The primary reason to use a speed sensor is for speed while indoors (such as on a trainer), or, in cases where GPS speed might not be reliable, for example in mountain biking with many switchbacks, you’ll often get unreliable GPS speed. Or, inside a long tunnel.
Do you have a link to something that dicusses that? I.e. can I make sure the speed recorded is from the speed sensor? (By saying “by default” it implies there are other options.)
It’s pretty easy to verify. Just disable the speed sensor and see what happens (take the battery out, take the wheel magnet off). If the 500 is anything like the 800, you’ll see zero speed even when moving. When you tell an 800 that you have a speed/cadence sensor, it assumes that you mean it and will use it to the exclusion of the GPS. I assume that’s because the speed sensor, when working properly, is always more accurate than the GPS (wheel development is less than the typical GPS error).
Actually, that’s not what I’ve seen. On AIDS/LifeCycle last year the speed part crapped out and it eventually went back to using GPS. What I’ve realized is that while you use the speed sensor for instantaneous speed when you upload somewhere else it uses the GPS position data to computer your speed, which is what I expect is The Rainmaker was referring to. But what I find confusing is that if your speed data with a speed sensor is more accurate than GPS data, then it also means your distance traveled via the speed sensor is more accurate as well, is it not?
That depends on how well it’s calibrated. In practice, I see very little difference between GPS and speed/cadence distance (I use software that lets you choose whether to use the number off the Edge or a recalculation from GPS data). The Edge 800 calibrates the wheel circumference from GPS data anyway, so they should be close. How often it does that I have no idea, since the circumference does change a little as the tire wears. Since the circumference of a 700×23 is a little over 2 meters, while the typical estimate of GPS error my Edge gives is at best a little over 3 meters, the speed/cadence sensor in principle should be more accurate, and it won’t suffer from the GPS glitches I occasionally see with the 800.
As for whether or not an 800 switches to GPS, I have only one data point. One day I was traveling about 25 mph down a modest grade and ran over a stick, which popped up and hit my rear wheel, knocking the wheel magnet out of alignment. The speed shown on the 800 immediately dropped to zero, even though I was still moving. This was about 10 minutes out, and I don’t remember seeing a non-zero speed again for the remainder of the ride. Cadence, of course, still showed. But I didn’t pay much attention to the 800 after I realized what had happened, so it may have started showing a speed again. (I’ve also had cadence magnets drop off, but of course there’s nothing that an 800 could replace cadence data with.)
Short version: Garmin Edge units will *display* speed from the speed sensor, but will use GPS for recorded speed, unless GPS speed = 0 (i.e. tunnel, indoors, etc…).
Unlike the Forerunner series which actually has an option to switch between sensor/GPS, the Edge series does not.
Thanks for the clarification. So the distance traveled and average speed I see on the unit are not based on the number of wheel revolutions, but all based on GPS?
Other way around. What you see on the unit for speed is actually from the sensor, whereas what you see recorded is from GPS.
You can test this (if you’re bored), but putting a really high/low value for wheel circumference into the bike profile. And then ride at a normal pace around the block (i.e. 15MPH). The display meanwhile, if using the sensor, might read something like 60MPH depending on what value you put there.
The device is useless without turn by turn voice navigation. One will think that such a simple feature will be in such a costly device, but no dice.
Also Garmin has a monopoly on the navigation market. So it doesn’t listen to such a simple request.
DC Rainmaker, any thoughts on this?
I’m reasonably sure they’re listening on this specific item.
I’d love that functionality but I don’t think its as simple as just adding a new function. Doing text to speech is pretty cpu intensive so would drain the battery more and pretty likely the device would need a faster CPU in it which in general would drain the battery more too. So possible, but very much not a simple request. (battery life for car GPS units is much shorter)
That is completely untrue. It doesn’t require any power. The device doesn’t need to synthesize speech. It can simply stich together prerecorded samples. However this point is moot because Bryton Sport already have their Bryron Rider 60 available which does the that job. Its very curious that it is not available in America. Its a pro poleton device. I sense a conspiracy between Garmin & Bryton to keep the device off american shores :)
This feature along with Bluetooth was the reason why I had requested DC Rainmaker to review the product.
Also I use the following chip set, Sunnto USB ANT+ stick, Rasberry Pi to vocalize my current ANT + sensor data. My only problem is that I don’t have accumulated values. I can sun the entire system on a 2000mah battery for about 12 hours. So I don’t think that power usage should be a problem for Garmin.
link to lapis-semi.com
The Bryron does have voice, but only if you have a Bluetooth earpiece.
From their website:
“Clear turn by turn guidance by Bluetooth earphone”
I would prefer an on-screen 150 foot warning to having an earpiece in constantly. I don’t have a Garmin yet but my understanding is that such heads-up notifications are easy to build in.
It is a very simple addition. Eveni have a jerry rigged solution. I seriously don’t have any idea why they haven’t. Warning on screen is already available including notification beep. These are easy to miss because of traffic noise. Let’s think of it this way. A direction change is actually an interrupt delivered to you so it stands to reason it is delivered through some other faculty then sight which is already in use to keep an eye on the road.
I contacted Bryton to ask if their Rider 60, if purchased in Europe, would work in the US. They replied ‘no’, but advised that I hold tight because the Rider 60 product will be available in the US this year!
I would point out that when I asked last year how shortly until Bryton products will be available in the US, they said last summer.
I actually don’t expect to see them at all in the US, for the simple reason that they aren’t there today because Garmin essentially sued them out of the country. Thus, their return would likely trigger further lawsuits (my guess).
Like others I hope Garmin would play nice with training peaks. If they release a 500/510 evolution that will be an ideal compromise for me. Any word or best guess ??
All Garmin devices are compatible with Training Peaks. It’ll be up to Training Peaks to add support for the Di2 shifting pieces. In talking with ANT+ today, all companies that are implementing Di2 related reporting are doing so using the exact same .FIT file standards for it. So data from either a Garmin Edge of the Mio 505 will generate the same exact data from a Di2 system.
That’s definitely great news to hear.
Segments will work similar to Strava segments (but are not compatible with Strava segments) –> deal breaker. Looks like I still have to wait for the gadget to support Strava segments.
Although Ray’s “first look” covers the Edge 1000, it naturally led to some interesting discussion here of smartphones vs dedicated cycling computers. There are some essential features which most cycling computers have, including Garmin’s Edge series. Smartphones today all lack some of these features, and most lack all of them (that includes the iPhone):
– long battery life (specifically, long battery life when using GPS)
– waterproofing
– ruggedization
– ANT+ capability (built-in, that is, not requiring a dongle).
– mounts (ie., ability to attach to your bike without requiring some sort of case or adapter)
Any smartphone with all of these features could be the replacement for dedicated cycling computers, as it would then be able to use the main advantage of the smartphone – it’s a general-purpose computer which allows you to do pretty much anything in software.
Many of the new features require you to carry a phone anyway. You could basically solve all of these with a phone case that includes extended battery, ant+ connectivity, ruggedization and a mount, likely adding less weight than the Edge and for way less than $600.
And what a monster size that case would have to be!
You can buy ruggedised smart-phones. Indeed, Sony have a water-proof Xperia phone which supports ANT+!
Nexus 5 does ANT+ (via rooting and an 11 dollar app. It works with everything I’ve thrown at it from speed, cad, spd/cad, power (basic, crank, wheel, crank frequency, HRM, footpod, weight scale). So a custom rugged case with integrated quarter turn mounts makes it a killer… if any really sleek app exists but they don’t. And Capacitive touchscreen + more fragile body means it’s not all weather. However, it raises the question. How can the Nexus 5 have everything that this thing does, and more, but is only $350.
I’ve bought loads of Garmin kit over the years but am getting increasingly concerned that Garmin are going down a route of trying to keep all of the generated data within the family of Garmin devices and apps/sites. For example the devices with Wifi can only upload to connect rather than to any target app or site which conforms to a standard API. Various other features seem to becoming more and more usable only in conjunction with connect. This would be better if connect was a good site. I hadn’t used connect for a while (I use Sporttracks and Strava) until I recently bought a vivofit and had a good look at connect for this and for my existing 910XT (I won’t mention the agro caused by Garmin Express). I was shocked at just how bad the site was. I have moaned about Strava’s Run pages in the past but connect makes Strava look superb in comparison. Maybe its a lack of familiarity but I just cant find many of the features I take for granted in Strava. I would love the new Edge 1000 for the di2 integration alone but am concerned that it would try more and more to push me into using connect with all its problems. Better to stick with the current solution which works rather than spend money creating hassle. As a gadget person I’m shocked to hear myself say this – not sure whether I’m getting old or Garmins market strategy is getting really bad but either way its stopping me spending money with Garmin on something i’d normally jump at.
The Mio 505 just got even more appealing.
Do you know if the edge 1000 fits the 3T integra ?
I would say it wont based on the dimensions. Garmin could just come out with a new top clamp to attach to the 3T intergra that would fit the 1000. I doubt they will because I think the #T Integra did not sell well. I love mine and it gives me another good reason not to upgrade the 1000.
As a very recent buyer of the 510 a call to please implement all suggested new areas into it (I’m sure garmin are reading and a further firmware update is fair given the cost and initial implementation issues with the 510/819).
Segments specifically, but I would also buy the di2 box (given I have a di2 bike). Less bothered about the remote, but could see a use for it in TT mode and change whilst on the bars.
People who keep mentioning smartphones don’t understand the target market for this device. For the low end market using a smartphone makes a lot of sense but at the higher end of the marketplace nobody wants to mount a bulky/heavy phone display on their carbon handlebars. By the time I show up for my weeknight group ride my phone is almost out of juice anyway.
I totally understand the target market – it’s me……I spend a huge amount on gadgets and carbon fibre. But I also understand that $599 is too much for this and I won’t be buying – and doesn’t really offer real improvements over previous generations. It’s about the same size as a “bulky/heavy” phone anyway.
Bear in mind that the 510/810/620 have been so plagued with software problems as to be unusable.
The market you are referring to tend to use a 500 or possiby a 510, which have most of the stuff you need.
Given the price point and garmin’s general lack of support for older unit (e.g. Edge 500) I’m very curios how this will stack up with the srm pc8? Hope you will be able to give a good comparison when both are released.
Yup, definitely plan to – though, in looking at the features that SRM has previously announced it will definitely be a significant subset of the Edge 1000 (or, really, any Edge unit for that matter). There are however unique features on the SRM side that are cool for certain situations (some of the team things). However, I suspect most people buying an SRM aren’t doing it for features, but rather stability. Whether or not they can carry that stability through from a previously rather simple device to a more complex device remains to be seen.
this is more and more like a smart phone but less features. If someone can make a iphone4/5 , gallaxy S5 / Nexus 5 case that can mount on Garmin mount then I will take a smart phone route instead of this Edge 1000.
It’s a bit funny, but you sorta hit the nail on the head. Once the iDevices get full waterproofing it’ll really change things.
Right now a number of (mainstream) Android devices have semi-full waterproofing and some form of ruggedization. However, the cycling apps on Android continue to really be but a fraction of what even a Garmin Edge 500 can do. On iOS it’s much better as far as the quality of the apps, however, unfortunately, without the native ANT+ support that many (most?) new Android devices have now.
Finally, looking at the mount, it’s very true. All of the mounts I’ve seen to date really suck for phones (except the Quadlock one). They waste so much space vertically, and in some cases around the phone. I wish there was a much cleaner solution there. It’s funny, for a post I was going to do I went and bought probably 8-10 different mounts off of Amazon. Basically anything I could find. Once I got them all in, I realized just how bad they all are. It as like having a boat anchor on my handlebars.
Respect your point of view but have to say with the amount of personal data the average phone has not to mention the features that allow you to access your bank account, pay bills and transfer money it just seems plain crazy (to me) people wanting to attach them to their handle bars.
Today’s UK (tabloid) press are screaming “Change all your passwords!!!!”
Ray,
Thanks for your response. I can’t believe that no one get it right in term of the case, you should design and start a Kickstarter campain, I would buy it :).
In term of the features, I think Samsung S4/S5 and Nexus 5 can support native ANT+ now. More and more will come. Apple will start doing that if they don’t want to be left behind.
The Wahoo for Android is pretty good now, and I think it would suite many needs such as power meter, cadence , speed, HR etc.
You won’t likely see ANT+ coming to the iPhone. I believe the exact term I heard used from one or two people in the know there on the relationship was “over our dead bodies” (from Apple, RE: putting ANT+ on iPhone).
Obviously, never can say never, but that’s just where it stands as of recent. I do however think you’ll see it on every other device though.
I can get the Magellan ( Mio) 505 in Aus for $399, How could i justify another $200 on the Garmin when the 505 seems to have better features , especially with the recent firmware upgrades
I would say it depends a little bit on which features you’re looking at. The Mio is solid for touring, but less ideal for the performance athlete. I’ve gotta get it entered into the product database to help make that a bit more clear. Obviously, your $200 price differential is very valid.
Worth while for mountain biking – both training and races?
I currently have a CS600X which is on its way out – could this be a replacement?
Nice tool, but to be interesting should implement R-R hr recording, TE training effect, avg 3,10,30″ lap avg Power Zone and %FTP, graphichal rappresentation of torque efficiency (likewise Pioneer), Vector battery %; Looking fwd for the review
Ray,
When are you getting your Di2 upgrade then so that you can test it properly? ;)
Working on that now…hopefully will have that sorted in next few days. Gotta figure out which bike exactly I’m going to put it on. I could put it on my tri bike (P3), though, I’d actually rather it on a road bike. The only ‘challenge’ there is that my road bike isn’t terribly awesome (mostly use it for shorter product tests where a tri bike doesn’t work). And quite frankly, the cost of Di2 actually exceeds the value of my road bike by a fair margin.
On the Ant+ vs. Bluetooth 4 debate – I’ve recently migrated from using Wahoo Bluetooth 4.0 sensors (HRM and Speed/Cadence), paired with my iPhone, over to Ant+ with EDGE 800.
In my experience the Ant+ devices always “just work”, whereas the Bluetooth 4 sensors required no end of faffing around, hard closing/re-opening apps, restarting iPhone, even having to take the batteries out of the sensors and putting them in backwards to force reset the sensors.
I was under the impression iOS 7 would help with Bluetooth 4 reliability, but I’ve not noticed any difference. Anecdotal evidence suggests there are deeper issues with the sensor hardware and/or firmware, or even issues with the protocol itself.
Personally I’d recommend going the Ant+ route.
BLE compatible smart devices are outstripping ANT+ devices by a fair margin for numbers. So there is a lot of focus on BLE. However, if someone buys an ANT+ compatible device they’ll buy sensors for it and then they may have one device serving multiple bikes / shoes / sports / etc. So BLE is in more phones but only a very small percentage is using it. This means the BLE protocol has more potential, but because of API’s and variations on how to implement BLE sports sensors initially (and very BAD API choices) has lead very fragmented adoption. Throw in the handful of old BT 2.1 HRM’s that are supported by some apps, and you have mass confusion and frustration. ANT+ benefits by being the first protocol that actually created a standard and make it very accessible whereas BLE is a bit of a copycat with a lot more protocol overhead and multiple ways to implement on the app side. This means BLE is relying almost entirely on 3rd party basement developers until the whole API thing gets sorted which should be sometime this year.
I am in the market for a new cycle computer (to replace my Edge 500). I only recently started using Strava and ever since haven’t use Connect at all or paid much attention to it. The segment feature adds to the fun and the data fields in Strava are more useful. More pros use Strava than Connect. Therein lies the problem…
However I think it’s a mistake of Garmin to ring fence Connect, and as a result introducing its own segment function.
We want simplicity and integration.
We don’t want to have to migrate or use 2 platforms for data and vice versa. We already have enough platforms available. There’s Training Peaks, WKO, SRM’s platform, Connect, Strava etc..
As to what will supersede my Edge 500 will come down to 2 computers, the Edge 510/810 or the SRM Power Control 8. I reckon these devices will be hot topics this summer.
Maps are not a deal breaker for me. I have a smartphone with good map integration to rely on, if required.
Though I will definitely purchase the cadence only sensor for MTB’ing (any maybe the speed sensor as well for reliability in the woods)
Do not know if others have asked for the screen.
But it is a brand new screen just like on a smartphone or is it the same type as the Garmin Edge 810 ?
A lot of comments about the Edge 1000 being too big to be a contender. I agree that an iPhone can do pretty much everything (with the right sensors). But as a salesperson at a major outdoor retailer, remember that smartphones are only at 65-75% penetration of the market. There are still a lot of people who don’t have one. You also have people who have $30/mo low-quality prepaid smartphones with terrible network coverage. Here you have a device that will be more accurate, last longer, and gives almost all the benefits of a cycling app on a smartphone with none of the need for connectivity. Now, that being said, for me personally with a smartphone, I use a Fenix for my daily rides and my iPhone when I am exploring.
@Rainmaker – one key question for me is whether the EDGE 1000 samples location more than once a second and whether segments on Garmin Connect are sub-second accurate. Competitive segments on Strava sometimes have dozens of riders placed equal, because accuracy is limited to seconds. Sure, GPS accuracy maybe limiting, but when combined with data from a speed/cadence sensor, it should be possible to know the riders position to a very high degree of accuracy.
No, no consumer devices on the market today record sub-second GPS rates. And ultimately, with the accuracy of consumer GPS anyway, it wouldn’t really change much.
The challenge with utilizing the speed sensor data is that it only tells you speed, but not actually location. Meaning, even if I knew the starting point via GPS and then applied speed from the sensor, that doesn’t tell me/it whether I followed the route, or turned and went on a slightly easier route with lesser grade, but for the same distance.
Obviously recording sub-second GPS locations isn’t ideal in any regards for this kind of device, not only would it kill your battery-life, it would use up a ton of data.
If Strava or GC saw any substantial benefit in sub-second segment times, it could easily be done on the data-analysis side by taking the two GPS-location points that straddle the end of the segment, calculating your average speed over that distance and calculating a sub-second time based on the ‘exact’ location of the end of the segment. This would create a lot of processing workload for them though and given the accuracy of some of this data (especially when including with the multitude of smartphone users on there) it’s just not in their interest.
Will we be able to use the micro sd’s from my 800 in the 1000? I have both the detailed road maps for Europe and the OS maps for the UK
Thanks
M
Yes, no problems using micro-SD map cards from either/or.
Hi DC-
The mini review said “Full and detailed maps included now” so does this mean we will not need to purchase a separate card with detailed maps?
I am East Coast US.
Or does having a card such as City Navigator North America NT give you even more detail?
Thanks,
Mike
Correct, it comes pre-loaded for maps based on the region you purchased (continent roughly). You can then further load other regional maps form free or paid sources.
Question is whether it will be as detailed as the North American maps on the SD card or not. Also will be interesting to know if they update maps via firmware or not?
The info I got from gpscity.ca is that the preloaded maps are US only, so us Canadians are SOL (as usual). Can you confirm?
I am a big gadget/bike equipment fan and buyer. Through the years I owned lot of garmin stuff, currently using FR620 and edge 810.
On various bikes I use various powermeters/sensors. What really drives me mad on both the 620 and the 810 is the lack of reliability. By far the 810 is worst in this respect. I never bothered to make statistics but I guess it’s realistic to say that every third ride presents me with some form of a problem. To me it seems that particularly the combo of two ANT+ sensors makes the 810 incredibly unstable. It very much looks like the 810 has more features than it can cope with.
I decided to completely switch to SRM as soon as the new PC is available. But it would be really interesting to see if the edge 1000 can live up to its promises again and offer us reliability.
Do you know where i can purchase the shimano di2 D-fly SM-EWW01?
I got hold of the Shimano Di2 SM-EWW01 a couple of weeks ago. it’s worth pointing out you’ll also need to source a 150mm or 200mm wire as there’s none in the box and it needs to go somewhere in serial in the loom.
Which retailer stocks them?
I’m UK based
I got the EWW01 here: link to buckinghambikes.com
and the 150mm wire here: link to singletrackbikes.co.uk
If you mount the unit on the seat-stay 150mm is pretty tight, and perhaps 200mm is a better option. In theory it should be fine anywhere in the system, but I’ve yet to get hold of a compatible head unit to test that out with. I think I may end up with it below the seat tube bottle cage, just prior to going into the front derailleur. Putting it further forwards either has it hanging in the wind near the handle bars or having to be internally routed in the frame. I suppose in the downtube just forward of the BB is an option, but in reality it’s about twice the height of the internal junction box and that’s a tight fit…
Rumour was the DA Di2 5 port box has ANT+ built in but not enabled.
That’s odd that you had to buy a cable. The US store that I’ve seen listing it mentions that it’s included in the box contents.
Anyway, I’m planning on trying to place mine inside my frame in line with the junction box. Hopefully the signal doesn’t get attenuated too much with Carbon :) Worst case scenario is that I will bring it outside of the BB shell and mount it underneath and out of sight.
I’m really quite annoyed at Shimano for not integrating this into a replacement front junction, and will be more pissed if I go out and buy one, only to find they enable it on the 5 port one at some stage!
Agreed. Sure would be nice to find out whether Shimano has plans for the 5 port junction. ITs the right place for this in the first place. The junction is already up front near the stem, and I doubt the ant+ smarts would take up a lot of space. Ray: Can you ask Shimano?
Next time we chat I can ask.
I’ve looked but it appears that the Shimano Di2 SM-EWW01 wireless unit is still not available for purchase. Is there any info on an ETA?
Its available in a few places. I’m sure if you talk to your LBS nicely they will also order one for you.
Actually, Glory cycles told me that only 100 came to North America and they were allocated 11. So, there’s not that many. In any case, I’m sure by the time the Garmin is shipping they should be easier to get.
My LBS in Ohio already has them in stock. I’m just waiting for the Edge 1000 to come out so I can purchase together.
I think Garmin deciding to go against Strava in the segments and social arena is a mistake. While Garmin has deeper pockets, Strava has the user base. I think the natural response to this is Strava will roll their own or partner with another GPS provider and market a Strava branded unit that integrates all these features (some supported by third parties) at a lower cost. Smart money would say they would also be the first to integrate a camera into the unit as well. Enable the advanced features only the premium members, and you have a slam dunk.
I could run with the Strava line except they are just as conniving and difficult as any perceived competitor. I use Strava because they are the main platform, and it’s easiest to link up with friends using it, not because they are a good corporate citizen or a corporate team player. Their approach to draconian API control is quite appalling, locking out 3rd party developers, especially considering they are a social media company built around freedom of device, freedom of choice, freedom to compete. Strava really needs to replace Garmin Connect but that won’t happen, Strava can’t be trusted.
They’re all conniving, every one of them. I never saw Strava as a good corporate citizen, but I do see them as fostering a social community and actually making it somewhat fun (if not somewhat painful depending on the segment). My main point is with Garmin stepping into their turf and owning their own platform, Strava’s only way to survive is to offer a similar platform with their own value add. I was always somewhat surprised that Strava didn’t try to license a Garmin platform and put their own features in (such as the real time segment feature Garmin has announced). Perhaps they did and Garmin would not deal. A shame, because it probably would have been a very lucrative market for both of them. Either way, I expect that we’ll see a Strava branded, or enabled, unit announced soon.
Completely agree!
Given the $600 price range, I thought it interesting that Garmin also released a $400 golf computer too that seems to be built on the same platform (looks identical). I assume it may not have the quarter turn mount or ANT+ (or does and it’s disabled), but either way the $200 difference is not justified.
Even the Golf version seems to have the quarter turn mount:
link to buy.garmin.com
Even if they did remove the ANT+ and Bluetooth, that’s a big price difference!
My bad… it seems to be some sort of optional Universal mount.
link to buy.garmin.com
When a head unit like this allows you to program in your target RPM range (i.e. 85 to 93) and it controls the electronic gearing to make it happen, we’ll see a revolution in training. Nearly everybody would make huge gains if they used a higher cadence and this would do it.
Zen — Curious as to why you say that higher cadence training would benefit most everybody. I thought the most recent research suggested people generally fall into their best cadence naturally.
@ZenTriathalon
“….and IT controls the electronic gearing to make it happen….”
Now that sounds damn dangerous to me!
Some comments about this device and Garmin in general.
I’m curious to know how people would use the di2 information if it was recorded? I know what gear I’m in almost all the time, and if I don’t a quick glance down would tell me. How would it help in post-analysis?
I also don’t find a lot of value in having a map sitting in front of me at all times. What is useful is a cue to “turn right in 200 meters”. Garmin should make that easy to do with all of their devices from Garmin Connect.
There are a whole slew of different types of devices and phones that show up on our local group rides. Most of them aren’t Garmins, and less than 1/3rd of the phones are iPhones. We like Strava for sharing, and the serious folks have Training Peaks accounts. Garmin is wasting their time and resources trying to compete with that. I also have to say that I never found it onerous to plug my device into my laptop and upload the files. Wifi sync with TP and Strava would be nice, but the thing needs to be plugged in sooner or later to charge anyway.
I don’t want texts or phone calls popping up the screen either. If my life ever becomes so complicated that I can’t disappear off the map for a couple of hours I’m doing something wrong, and I can check my phone when I stop to refill my bottles if I feel the need.
What I want: 1. Super rugged and weather-proof, 2. High quality and reliable data recording. 3. LOOOOONG battery life. 4. Easy to create cue sheets for turns.
Just to be clear, on the map piece, the Turn by turn directions are already present in Garmin devices. It started with the Edge 705, then the Edge 800, then the 810 and now the Edge 1000.
Greg, totally feel where you’re coming from, but as a Millenial, I think I speak for the rest of us when I say that although I’m not texting and running or chatting while I’m on the bike, it is really nice to know, at least, when someone is trying to hit you up. As the lady of the house, my worst fear is for something to happen to my hubby or one of my pets, and me not be able to at least know so I can turn around and start heading home. Calls/texts aren’t all bad. And you can turn the ‘Do Not Disturb’ function on on your phone, and the only calls that will come through are ones when someone tries to call you more than one time from the same number (an emergency).
Yes but unfortunately they are not voice directions. With Bluetooth this would be a very appealing feature. I can look at the road rather than the screen.
Have they sorted the Garmin Connect app out yet? I have an iPhone 5 and an Edge 810, and whilst it usually connects when I turn the Edge on it almost always loses the phone (that’s in my pocket) and EVERY upload at the end of the ride either fails or doesn’t happen at all (i.e. saves to history).
I saw from the Garmin forums that there seems to be a general issue with this.
Hi Ray
You say “The bottom of the unit still retains the ability to add a MicroSD card for additional storage (generally used for additional maps)”
Does that means that the preloaded maps are now on the device’s internal memory instead of the usual microSD as for the Touring?
That memory would partially justify the price.
Thanks
Luca
Hi Luca-
The unit includes 8GB of internal memory, which is pre-loaded with the cycling maps for the region purchased.
In addition, you can load your own MicroSD card in there as well.
Did you ride Mt Lemmon, Ray? My Dad and I did it last month and had a great time. We even tried out a Sony Action Cam to catch the descent:
link to youtube.com
No, no Mt. Lemmon rides yet. Someday.
Super interesting toy! I’m intrigued by the fact that it has the ability to hook up with your iPhone via Bluetooth and that can let you know at least that you have a call. I also think it’s kind of funny that you had to mention that the device needed to be on you…but I’m sure you’ve gotten those weird questions before! Great review, but I think for the price I should probably stick to what I have :( bummer!
Thanks for the great review, albeit being on a somewhat pre-production unit. Def will make me wait to purchase another 500 (bought a 910XT for Triathlons but find myself very much missing the standalone out in the fron dedicated unit on my road bike!) . I would assume it does but do you know for sure if it will be compatible with all the other Garmin sensors like HR straps, cadence and speed sensors that I already have ?
Again great blog and and formidable resource for research ! keep up the good work…
Yes, totally compatible with all previous/current ANT+ sensors from Garmin or otherwise.
Thanks for the quick response! BTW as soon as it’s available post a link to the amazon’s store :-) I’d be happy to buy through your link and get you some $.
Thanks Sam.
Just noticed Amazon now lists it, so I just added the link into the page (table at very bottom). Or, you can also pre-order through Clever Training and save a bunch of cash. Either way supports the blog.
Another plug of my own app. This thing does just what my won app does but I get to race strava segments.
link to play.google.com
little vid of me and bike:
link to youtu.be
Phone must be the way forward, everyone carries one with them any way. If your obsessed with accuracy you can get a bluetooth gps reciver to use with your phone, slightly less than a garmin….
I like the live tracking thing in concept, but I really don’t want to take my cell phone along for a run or ride. Here’s to hoping someone develops devices (ideally a watch) that does the usual, and also accepts a sim card that I can insert for cell coverage.
Anyone know of such a device that currently exists or being developed that’s suited for runners or bikers?
Yup, the Bia: link to dcrainmaker.com
Seems the shipping date on these may have slipped by a month now according to Clever Training. Their date now shows June, and I confirmed this with a phone call :(
Yes, Garmin revised the ship date to companies to ‘May 30th’, as a result, Clever decided to just call it June. Since May 30th is a Friday, and that’s the date it leaves Garmin, not the date it arrives to Clever.
Looks like the SME-EWW01 is now becoming available. Just got a notice from glorycycles that they have stock.
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the sneak peek! Does this new device also include a music player allowing you to manage and play music from your phone (like the Mio you recently looked at)?
No, it does not at this time.
I was hoping this would be the update to the 810. I can see this appealing to keen strava fans. I look at my smartphone, then back at the garmin menus, screens and connectivity. It reminds me of Nokia just before smart phones came along. They could do with a good cycling offroad device, more about navigation than performance.
Excellent overview. However, not all cycling enthusiasts are firmly dedicated to monitoring heartrates, watts, social media connectivity e.a. We are, I prefer to believe, many, who just want a good time on our bikes in adverse weatherconditions in strange mountains in foreign countries, with a full load of camp equipment, we are, for lack of a better word, touring fanatics. As such we have absolutely no interest in the “new features” of above Edge 1000 except for perhaps the wifi thing. I hasten to say, that I tour with an ipad3, an iphone 5, Plantronics earbugger and a Garmin Edge 810 all connected via bluetooth and working perfect together. What we tourers do need is bigger and better screens and batterypower combined with ease of downloading maps without the necessity of connecting to a pc. , its for us very simple actually, and why this hasnt been solved is as usually beyond me.
Thank you for this first view.
Lots of things are mentioned int the article – and some are in comments.
But I am still missing a far-fetched question that I was hoping that Garmin would issue: Does it have any specific features for the MTB-community?
As a MTB trail-biker that sometimes just take my bike and go to a different area – I would have loved the round trip routing/planner to give me suggested routes at a place that I´ve never been. But I want it to suggest OFF-ROAD (or at least non-tarmac) routes/trails.
Heard of the Edge 1k will have that choice?
I know that the MIO Cyclo 500-series have a similar “surprise me”-route planner – but have yet still to figure out if it can present me with “non-tarmac”-routes?
In any case, thank you for being the best reviewer out there when it comes to these cycle-gadgets! :)
Looking forward to the full review!
Cheers from Sweden!
As usual, it comes down to the maps. If the maps you’re using have routable trails, then the Edge should be able to route on them. Since they’re using OSM maps, there’s a chance they’ll include trails, but there’s no guarantee. You may have to install OSM maps yourself. The OSM maps for my area do include routable trails, but the only way to know for sure is to try using BaseCamp or on the Edge before hand. On some maps (Garmin’s own TOPO maps), trails are either missing or just lines on a map without the extra information to make them routable. BaseCamp and OSM maps are free, so it doesn’t cost anything to try it out beforehand.
In reply to Paul: I would not agree with you about this – since I want the routes that previous MTB-bikers have ridden. Whether or not it´s on a map!
Like the smartphone app “Endomondo” – where I can download previous bikers saved routes (that are most often not on any map at all) and chose if I want to follow one.
Would it not be an excellent online-feature:
1. You arrive on your destination where you have not been before
2. You ask the Edge 1000 that you want to ride aprox 30km of MTB-trail
3. The Edge goes online and get the – by previous users – saved routes in the area that are marked for MTB and cut/merge something together. Maybe with an option for getting at least one “uncut” version from a popular local MTB-route. Maybe using “heat signature” mapps as reference?
4. The Edge then suggests three routes for you to ride with aprox timestamps based on previous riders.
5. Advanced version with calculated approx. time to complete them based on previous riders. Maybe even record accelerometer data to compute how “bumpy” the route is – giving an indication on how technical it might get (or even certain parts of the route) – maybe even becoming a choice when looking for a route.
Now THAT would be something.
And trying to look for the sporty tarmac-riders: Just as a MTB:ist would set/prefer more/less bumpy roads – they would be able to set/prefer more/less up/downhills.
Are you listening in Garmin… :)
Is there a way to claim the $100 rebate on the edge 810 by a European?
Just got an email from Evans Cycles promoting the Edge 1000. Went to have a look more to see how $600 translates in to £’s and was shocked to see its £500! I’m normally pretty blind to Garmin prices (have 810, FR620, VIRB elite, Vivofit) but I’d love to know how Garmin arrived at that price especially as the target market would likely have the (hugely?) troublesome (unfixed) 810 and so not liable to trust Garmin…… I don’t!!!
Hi!
Can I ask you – why you included in your comparison table all the old garmins – but not the new polar V650? They are too different or in totally different classes? I’m thinking to buy one of them, I wanted V650 – but now also start to thinking about Edhe 1000. I have powermeter from Powertap which has both Bluetooth and ANT transmitters – and I can use them both Garmin and Polar – so why not make comparison this two new computers?
You can mix any products you want via the product comparison tool, including the V650: link to dcrainmaker.com
The V650 doesn’t do mapping, so I didn’t include it above. And, realistically, compared to the Edge 510 or even 500, it doesn’t do much of that either by the way things are looking. Most folks looking at the V1000 are likely coming from an existing Garmin device, and thus, it seemed the chart would to the majority of the users in the current configuration. Especially since it’s only a click away to compare any products.
Cheers.
Fred has a very very important point. Manufacturers seem to forget that there are three main types of cyclists, all “needing tecnical help” for “succeeding” in their endeavours: 1. Roadists (Raceists, pun not intended), 2. MTBists and 3. Touringists. I belong to no 3. and shall thus refrain from commenting on the needs of nos 1 and 2. One example: I have recently concluded a tour from Seville in Spain to Santiago de Compostella along the Via de la Plata with 38 kilos on bike incl bike, gadgets, rollers, water etc., said route has existed for abt 1200 years. I am riding for app 8-10 hours a day weeks on end, but I cannot be sure that there is 220v at my nightly stopover to charge all of my gadgets. My Garmin Edge 810 has a theoretical lifespan of 16 hours, in the real world it is abt 8-10! So next day I am at a loss if I dont have additional powerbackup. So why is it that nobody has “invented” a cycling computer that tells me, where I am, my friends also, with a big screen, with readily available maps of Via de la Plata e.a. downloaded via wifi (to connect you with everything else) without need of a pc and a lifespan to tell the story? And nothing else! My heartrate, watts e.a. well I have survived so far! Does the new Garmin Edge 1000 solve any of my or my fellow trampers’ problems? No, it doesnt! So untill somebody entrepeneur on kickstarter does this, I am always carrying common sense, a good oldfashioned hardcopy roadmap and a magnetic compass! :)
Hey, interesting post…. Have just been doing a London, Paris, London tour with an 810 and lots of KG’s in my Ortlieb panniers.
With regards battery life I’m seeing around 13/14hrs with speed and cadence connected and a little bit of time connected to a VIRB Elite on my helmet. The absolute CRITICAL thing to do is turn the back light off as it eats battey power like there’s no tomorrow. Can’t comment on the connectivity where you are or where you’ve been but I found that the 810 connected to my phone a Samsung Galaxy S4 and tablet a Google Nexus 7 worked perfectly. So, I was able to send my 810 tracks each day to Garmin Connect via the S4 then view them on the nice large screen of the Nexus. I was also able to download routes that I’d saved in GC to the 810 as needed so if I had some extra time I’d add a sightseeing route. The only issue and to be honest a REAL pain was that I wasn’t able to to create routes on this setup. The phone always knows where you are so I mainly used Google maps.
As for recharging your batteries I’m surprised that you don’t have a hub dynamo especially judging by the mileage your doing also it being Spain maybe a solar panel might be appropriate.
The 810 is FAR FAR from perfect and Garmin needs to do the right thing and sort them out.
Anyway happy touring!
Assuming Garmin is smart enough to read these comments, please, please enable the features discussed on the 510 and 810, especially the remote. It has always been cumbersome to swipe pages, to the point where I just don’t bother any more. The idea of being able to change pages while remaining in the TT position or not take a hand off the bars while riding off-road is exciting. I would buy one of the remotes is a second if it worked on my 510. Garmin – given the slightly frustrating and disappointing history of the 510 and 810 I feel like you owe us this much.
On another note – Thanks Ray for another great inside scoop on an upcoming product, I have no doubt that your blog influences this type of sports technology more than almost any other factor, you should do this full time (if it paid the bills) :)
Tks Scott, but i do have a Dynamohub, which runs all my lighting. I also have a Power Monkey Extreme solar powered battery, and I have two spare batteries for Ipad/iphone just in case, so I can manage but it is a nuisance not to speak of the necessity of bringing one thousand different connecting things for charging. On my handlebar sits also my old Iphone 3gs as a backup for the 810 with google maps and tomtom europe. The 810 works perfectly with my Iphone 5 and my Plantronics Legend earmike, no problem there. So once again re “the new Edge”: “bigger” battery, bigger screen, wifi and direct downloading of maps and routes! As for the weight I really dont care if I carry 35 kilos or 35200 grams, thats just one cola less. ;)
Lots of people saying that not implementing strava segments is a mistake and I kind of agree BUT I don’t think that garmin are being as stupid as it might seem.
Strava have 2 big selling points over GC IMO
1. A mature and functional web site
2. Segments
Obviously garmin are not going to buy strava (as described above) but using the edge 1000 they can copy all of the strava segments without lifting a finger. Anybody using the 1000 and strava is going to copy all their favourite segments to GC. So garmin can basically crowd source copy one of stravas advantages. So there will be a natural convergence of GC and strava segments without garmin spending a cent.
The prehistoric website and apps are another issue – hard to believe they can be so bad ?
I’m looking to get a new Edge. i have the 500. i’m looking to get the new edge 1000 i would like to now about seeing the screen in the sun is it hard to see the screen.
FYI, Ray, an email from Garmin Support says that the new cadence sensor and speed sensor can be used at the same time with the 705.
Ray, I asked ealier, but you may have missed my question. Does the text notification only show who texted and not the actual message? Thanks, John
I was waiting to get a bit of clarity on that actually, mostly because I wanted to validate what I saw versus what was coming. Thankfully, I got that about an hour ago while out on my ride. Here’s how it works:
The Edge display will show the alert, the user can then access the content of the text messages through the status bar where it’s indicated how many calls/texts have been missed or alternatively through the Bluetooth settings.
Thanks Ray, love the detail you share with everyone, best reviews in the business!! Keep up the great work!! Thanks, John
Hi Rainmaker
How is the screen on the Edge 1000, it is like the Egde 810 or is it a new type of display.
Can you tell us a little about screen may compare it with the edge 810 :-)
Hi Morten,
It’s a much higher resolution screen, and a bit different than the Edge 810 from a technology standpoint.
Resolution-wise, it’s:
Edge 1000: 3″ screen at 240×400
Edge 810: 2.7″ screen at 160×240
So, if you do the maths:
Edge 1000: 155.49 PPI
Edge 810: 106.83 PPI
Or, roughly a 50% increase in pixels.
You mean 50% increase in pixel “density”. The increase in number of pixels is 150%.
I wanted to know about the display when in the sun can u see it.
You forgot the ambient light sensor that auto adjusts the display brightness. I think this is a big plus.
” It has an ambient light sensor that automatically adjusts the screen brightness to changing light conditions to improve visibility”
BTW: I like the idea of knowing when a call comes in when I am in a on-call rotation for work requiring a 15 minute callback – This may be the reason for me to upgrade.
Yeah, I noticed that, but since the current Edge units have a variant of that already, decided it wasn’t quite as special as some of the other things.
I’m surprised that they haven’t integrated a solar panel to extend the battery life. Seems like the biggest power draw is the backlight in direct sunlight. It would produce the most current at the times that require the most power.
Where would you put a solar panel? To be useful, it would end-up requiring the face of the unit 2-3 times as large.
There is a technology where you actually place a solar panel membrane under the screen. There are both watches and cellphones that have used this in the past.
And with the screen larger than the 5xx/8xx…
Fred April 24, 2014 at 9:16 am #274 said: “There is a technology where you actually place a solar panel membrane under the screen. There are both watches and cellphones that have used this in the past.”
Let’s see how it well it would work:
link to goalzero.com
“Nomad 7 Solar Panel” 3-6 hours to recharge a “Goal Zero Switch 8” Recharger (2200 mAh battery).
Size of goal-zero panel (a slight overestimate): 9 x 17 in = 153 in^2
Size of Edge 800 display 1.5 x 2 in = 3 in^2.
The Edge 800 has a 1000 mAh battery.
Assuming a midrange charging time between 3-6h (note that 3h is “best conditions”): 2200mAh/4.5h = 489mAh/h.
We get: 489mAh/h * 3in^2/153in^2 = 9.8 mAh/h.
To fully charge a Edge 800 with an Edge-sized solar cell: 1000mAh/(9.8 mAh/h) = 100 hours.
I ran a fully-charged Edge 800 continuously for 9.5 h and ended-up with a 12% charge remaining. The solar cell would be continuously “topping-up” the Edge, which means that we’d get about 100mAh of charge in 10 h. So, for my example, I would have ended-up with, very optimistically, a 22% charge remaining instead of 12%.
Keep in mind that the Goalzero panel is designed for solar collecting (without any efficiency-robbing display and oriented towards the sun to maximize exposure.
That is, the numbers above would be very optimistic for a solar cell on an Edge 800 (and the result is not very good).
The iPhone 5s lasts about ten hours on its own under continuous use. Toss a three-ounce Mophie Juice Pack ($120) on it and it will, reliably, last 20 hours. That solves my battery problem and I’m still an ounce less weight and $480 ahead versus the Edge 1000.
Going Bluetooth instead of ANT solves my problem for sensors. Now, if I could just find a QuadLock-style mount ($70, give or take) that would work with the Mophie, I’d have no need for anything other than the phone. Yes, the screen is not as daylight-visible as a dedicated bike computer but, for $400 less, I’m more than willing to make due.
I’m a Garmin fan going way back, nearly two decades, but the tipping point has been reached with regards to dedicated units versus extending the smart phone for the bulk of the market. I did my first 300k a couple weeks ago, am looking to do more long distance cycling, would love to add mapping and detailed statistics but I don’t see the Garmin as the way to that end.
Backyardavore said: “The Edge – to be worth anywhere near $600 – requires a smart phone.”
The 810 is $500 and lots of people us it without a smartphone.
Backyardavore said: “Garmin: please make a $300 product that mounts on my bars, docks my cell phone, includes a better GPS than is in my phone, reads my ANT/BT sensors and has a battery that will feed said phone for an additional ten hours. I see a value in Garmin’s GPS better receiver, locally-stored maps (for use when touring outside service range) and, for a smart phone to be an effective long-distance bike computer, need more battery life. Garmin has the engineering and manufacturing depth to make the product.”
Smartphone manufacturers change the dimentions of their smartphones and smartphones from different manufacturers are all different. And connectors are not in any consistent place either.
An expensive dock would be a business disaster. And, for your list, the only thing missing is a display. That is a “dock” wouldn’t be much cheaper than what Garmin already provides.
Backyardavore said: “(I’d even fudge on the requirement of a dock. Allow me to velcro the Garmin device to the head tube the way I do the battery for my headlight. That would probably be better because it means they could sell one Garmin for a variety of phones and all you’d need is a custom cable between the Garmin and the phone.)”
This is a somewhat better idea but it really wouldn’t be much cheaper and it would have to be larger (to accomodate a battery big enough to provide any significant power to the phone).
Backyardavore, that is exactly the point head on. (This is not a Garmin nor an Apple bashing blog though, but a frank exchange of views! ). Now, all the technology for making a viable and workable and today a quite simple product for us no 3.s, is already out there, it has as of today been invented many times by several different manufacturers, but “corporate egocentrism” seems to have prevented it from being turned into a product, which will ultimately benefit us bikers. Therefore, overviews from the rainmaker including comments is a very very valuable contribution for making the manufacturers understand what we, the endusers, the buyers, it is our money, think of this and that, supposing naturally that Garmin reads over our metaphorical shoulders. I am still at a loss of understanding, why Garmin when confronted by me had the nerve to tell me, that my difficulties with the City Navigator, purchased with my 810, in Spain was my problem! I had supposedly bought the latest in biking navigation, but it was hopelessly out of date, which is exactly why I carry I-phones and additional (excess) amount of common sense! In a weird way it was my problem though! I appologize that English is not my first language. :(
Hi
How figure out if the DI2 on my bike is compatible with the Shimano D-Fly Data Management (SM-EWW01). could not locate the model number. I have a bmc team machine, 2012 ultegradi2.
Thank you Fadi.
Hi Fadi-
Check out this site, it may help identify exactly which model you have: link to carltonbale.com
It’s effectively a ‘everything you ever wanted to know’ about Di2, tutorial.
Also, as an FYI to others, Clever Training is now carrying the SM-EWW01. Like everything else, you save 10% as well as free US shipping there. They’re also working to load in the full Di2 line-up as well (it’s a bit of a complex set of SKU’s to list). Links are up in the accessories at end of post.
Many thanks for the promptness. Very insightful. I guess i have the 6770. Need to read more to digest. Regards Fadi
The simple answer to your question is that your version of Di2 6770 is indeed compatible, but you may need to upgrade the firmware on your Di2 system in order to make use of it.
thank you Bob
For $650 I can buy a new iPhone with a better display and a faster processor. Seems to me that Garmin has got the relationship of the phone and the cycling accessory the wrong way around. It would be better to make an accessory that does the things the phone doesn’t do, like barometric pressure and GLONAS (maybe), and write a super app for the phone to integrate it along with the various sensors for speed, cadence, and power. It’s just as easy to mount an iPhone on your handlebars as something that’s almost as big as an iPhone; even an iPad mini works pretty well on handlebars with the appropriate mount.
I guess I’ll have to start a company to do this stuff right.
That works for you, but what about the people that don’t care to use their smart phone or don’t have smart phone? Those are two reasons why Garmin is still in business and why there is still a market for cycling computers. There’s room enough in the world for people who just want to use a cycling computer, for people who only want to use their cell phone, and for people who want to use their cell phone in combination with some other device. There’s no single best solution.
I willing to bet that the kind of people who spend $599 on a garmin are exactly the same people who have a smart phone.
At this point I use a garmin (800) because it’s better than a smart phone, but the tipping point is getting nearer.
That’s right, Simon. If a cyclists choice what a smart phone OR an Edge 1000 but NOT BOTH, the cyclist would probably choose the Edge 1000. But that isn’t the way this product is designed. The Edge – to be worth anywhere near $600 – requires a smart phone. The paradox is that once you have committed to the smart phone, you start to question why you need the Edge.
Garmin: please make a $300 product that mounts on my bars, docks my cell phone, includes a better GPS than is in my phone, reads my ANT/BT sensors and has a battery that will feed said phone for an additional ten hours. I see a value in Garmin’s GPS better receiver, locally-stored maps (for use when touring outside service range) and, for a smart phone to be an effective long-distance bike computer, need more battery life. Garmin has the engineering and manufacturing depth to make the product.
(I’d even fudge on the requirement of a dock. Allow me to velcro the Garmin device to the head tube the way I do the battery for my headlight. That would probably be better because it means they could sell one Garmin for a variety of phones and all you’d need is a custom cable between the Garmin and the phone.)
Cheers,
Matt
I’ll betcha 99.9% of the people who own $2500 bikes and $600 worth of cycling electronics own smartphones, and so would Garmin or they wouldn’t be focused on smartphone integration so much. If you make a list of the elements in the modern smartphone and the 1000, there’s a high degree of overlap, with the smartphone the more generally capable device because it has the 4G/LTE network interface that’s extremely useful for navigation and social stuff. Smartphones don’t have precise GPS, but that’s mainly a question of software these days; they also don’t tend to have barometric altimeters or ANT+ interfaces, and they tend to have battery challenges for long rides. Garmin has generally been too committed to ANT, which is problematic now that BT 4 BLE is a functional on iOS if not on Android. It’s also problematic for swimming.
Kinda seems to me that Garmin needs to realize they’re a software company that makes a few hardware accessories instead of the other way around.
Richard Bennett said: “Smartphones don’t have precise GPS, but that’s mainly a question of software these days;”
From my limited testing, it doesn’t seem like the GPS on the IPhone 5 and Nexus 7 2013 tablet are really less precise.
Richard Bennett said: “For $650 I can buy a new iPhone with a better display and a faster processor.”
The screen on an iPhone is useless in direct sunlight.
Smartphones have a lot of potential but, at present, the Garmin units work better for bicycle nagivation.
Here’s why:
1) Better battery life.
2) Better/simpler mounting.
3) Better/simpler weather resistance.
4) Much better display for direct sunlight.
5) Off-line (local storage) maps.
6) Better handling of navigating uploade routes. (There are a few apps that purport to do this but they are either don’t work that well or are very new).
7) More appropriate size. (The Garmins could be bigger but some of the bigger phones, and certainly tablets, are really too big).
The $250 Garmin Touring does all of these right out of the box.
Smartphones don’t do all of these things “out of the box”. Things like mounting and weather resistance are things that cost extra for smartphones.
Certainly, for more “casual” riders, using the smartphone they already have might make more sense.
The phones (and other GPS units) are starting to support GLONASS by default (that is, supporting GLONASS isn’t a differentiator).
It varies by both model, but actually more importantly these days – the app. Which app you select has a tremendous impact on the accuracy of the GPS track, since most apps do some form of data smoothing to eliminate many of the errors natively introduced by the phone.
I have no problems at all with my iPhone screen in direct sunlight. I just change the brightness which I also do on my Garmin 510 and 810 which both need backlight on and turned up all the time. Also I have plenty of complaints about Garmin color screen visibility in direct sunlight.
There are multiple approaches to the battery life issue using an iPhone.
1. Turn off data gives you hours more battery and does not affect GPS.
2. There are multiple battery packs you can use for longer rides but for typical rides built in battery is more than enough.
3. Do you really need the screen on all the time? Most people don’t. Tap it when you want to see data.
There are plenty of ways to easily do offline storage of maps. The latest version of Google maps make it really easy but there were may ways prior to this.
There are plenty of ways to easily upload courses.
This mount is easy and simple. It has been reviewed on this site.
link to amazon.com
Topeak would be another one.
I just ordered the Annex case and the Polar H7 Bluetooth strap from Amazon and will be testing and comparing them to my 510 and 810.
I think the price on the Garmin 1000 is ridiculous and I’m not a particularly price sensitive person. I think it rightly makes people think why can’t they just use their phone instead. A case HR strap and Cadence/speed sensor for a phone would be under $150.
I wish I could be more Garmin positive but their software is terrible and I don’t really want to be a year long beta tester for another product like I was with the 510.
I would love to see a similar comparison on this site.
If Garmin is really a software company they need to get better developers and testing than they have now.
ANT + has less and less reason to exist now.
About every modern smartphone does GLONASS by the way.
I’d suggest that the vast majority of people who buy an Edge series computer want to be able to see those stats anytime they look at a handlebar. I could be wrong, but if I was, then nobody would be buying Edge units and instead using phones.
As for routes – what specific methods do you use to upload routes to a phone app and then ride them on a bicycle, that also gets sensor data (HR, etc…)?
I ask because I’m genuinely curious.
Hi Ray
I’m so on the verge of buying a Garmin Edge (of some variety) but can’t bring myself to over using my smartphone/app combo.
I have a Trek Domane 4.5 with integrated ANT+ sensors for cadence/speed. I have a Polar BT HRM belt.
I have a Galaxy S4 phone mounted with Ultimate Addons mount (bit bulky but does the job and gives weatherproofing).
Apps wise, I then use:
– Strava for… well, Strava
– SportsTrackLive – for stats etc, This really is a good app for stats, cadence, pace whatever, just a back to basics no nonsense app. Can also export to strava with HR data (link to play.google.com)
– MapMyRide or GoogleMaps – for route planning
I also have two spare batteries with me and I’ve never come unstuck with this.
Yes I do have three apps running at times, not sure how this affects battery life but it’s working fine for me. Have real time tracking on MapMyRide and SportTrackLive including social sharing in real time.
The downsides to me are:
– the set up doesn’t look very ‘bike’ and the mount/case is big. It has also come detached and ended on the road once on a bumpy section
– having to swap batteries at times
– built in weather proofing.
However the issues mentioned above are solvable with the phone situation, perhaps not elegantly but I can’t quite bring myself to shell out £400 for a unit that probably offers less that what I’m getting now to cure the above issues.
BTW, will my Polar BT HRM belt link to the Edge 1000?
No, unfortunately no luck on the BT HRM with the Edge 1000. I’d go with something like some of the dual straps (see the product comparison tool on the sidebar, then HR sensor dropdown, for all of those).
I’d agree that right now the bike-app story is still fairly ‘divergent’, which is really my biggest issue. I wish there was one app that did all of what I wanted. In some ways, if the Wahoo app would allow me to customize the data screens, and then had turn by turn routing – that’d be a big move. I don’t use interval and workout function a ton in my normal bike rides (I do occasionally), so those are slightly less critical for me. Well, minus waterproofing, but I think phones are clearly evolving there.
Yes, good points. To be honest the three app thing is working fine for me, I often know which route I’m going to do but if not I just put one on MapMyRide and kick it off. Then kick off Strava to upload there (I could just do that via SportsTrackLive) then leave SportsTrackLive on display which has all data you could shake a stick at and a myriad of UI options, ghost riders, graphs etc. I can listen to music, see texts, emails, whatsapp, calls etc at a glance. Google maps right there if I need it. I just can’t feel enough compulsion to migrate the a compute.
It feels to me like that whole bike computer/smartphone/apps/garmin/strava thing is in a real transitional state at the moment. I’m going to buy a QuadLock mount and continue with my Galaxy S4 for the time being, see how things look in a year or so.
Would like to use S3 for cycle computer, but find the sun more powerful than the screen and battery on a ride.
On a recent ride with it mounted to by top tube, the device was on the verge of overheating with the screen off and only running a few Bluetooth apps. And forget ever seeing the screen with the big light(sun) up or keeping it power with reserve battery.
Like the concept of purpose built remote screen and sensors acting as a relay for visual and data collection. Wahoo seams to be on track for this in reading.
Are there any other NFC type screencast solutions?
Does the Edge 1000 accomodate Custom Maps (same as the Edge 800 does)??
Almost certainly, it accomodates custom maps just like the Touring and every other mapping Edge unit. It would actually be harder and more expensive for Garmin not to allow for custom maps. Keep in mind that you have to be able to update the maps on any unit.
Richard Bennett said: “Smartphones don’t have precise GPS, but that’s mainly a question of software these days;”
From my limited testing, it doesn’t seem like the GPS on the IPhone 5 and Nexus 7 2013 tablet are really less precise.
If anything Smartphone GPS is better hardware wise. It’s the software that would be more the concern but the latest versions of all options I have seen are good these days.
“this is *NOT* a review, in-depth or otherwise”!
Amazing stuff. What would Cycling be without an in depth product review by Rainmaker? Great job.
The first thing that I look for on getting to know of a cycling related product is a review by Rainmaker and you seldom fail to fulfill this need.
Hi Ray,
Was this release of the garmin 1000 unexpected? If so, do you think we can expect to see more releases (ie upgrades for the edge 500 and 800) from garmin in the near future?
It was expected. For the North American cycling season, what you’ve got on the market is what’s going to be there (from everyone).
Thanks Ray,
P.S Your blog is awesome!
Hi Ray, is Garmin planning to enable graphic display of torque efficiency (likewise the FR 620?), avg Power Zone 3, 10, 30″ and lap?
No, it’s not something that’s been brought up. I suspect we’ll see other features first.
Let see if will have more power features and Vo2Max estimation toghether with training effect? (a plus vs the 810)
BTW it’s nice that support the Tanita BC-1000, wondering if also the new BC-1500
It looks like the big problem with this device is the price, as many have said $600 is smart phone territory. The issues with smart phones as navigators have been pointed out;
– Battery Life
– Water resistance
– GPS accuracy
I live in the UK, and the pre-order price for the Garmin 1000 is already 17% discounted from list price on my main shopping website, which does actually move it to about 60% of a smartphone price.
I don’t have much money, but I do have more money than sense, and I’m likely to buy a Edge 1000 just for the bigger screen, and so I can pass my Edge 800 to my wife, who’s combination of basic speedo’s, running watch GPS and paper maps is driving me insane.
Hi Ray,
Is it possible to put the D-fly sensor in the frame? Is there someone who did this?
And can the sensor be placed everywhere in the E-tube bus? Or must the sensor be placed between the junction box and the RD? If not would it be possible to put the sensor in the seat tube under the bat.
Thanks for the information!
Nico, It will work anywhere on the bus, however as to whether it works in the frame, that depends on frame material and how far away it is from the head unit.
Anyway this is what I’m planning on doing also: link to dcrainmaker.com
For carbon frames it has a good chance on working. I’m going to try some experiments with some old parts parts first anyway before I do it.
Hello Richard,
Thanks for the fast reply!
I am planning to order the wires en D-fly this week to test it out.
There is room enough in the Trek 7 tubes. But integretion in the junction box would be the normal place indeed!
I Will keep you informed on my progres.
I’ve got mine on the way this week as well. The trouble is, without the 1000, we won’t know if the signal is strong enough if its internal. First one to make this happen successfully should win special mention!
True but we can get a good idea by simulating it using the current gen devices and maybe a speed sensor… that’s what I was planning at least anyway.
OK. First challenge is to fit it inside the frame……….
I’m going to use some Headset spacers for the time being (ends blocked off), and then position the whole thing about 4 feet away.
Not hugely scientific I know :) but should give a rough idea if it could work.
The ideal is to mount the D-Fly in the spot you want, and use a Garmin Ant+ USB dongle with a packet sniffer to check for the signal………but that’s way beyond me. :-)
I found your comments on segments interesting, because the only reason I got a GPS unit is because I am a pursuit/TT sort of guy and haven’t the slightest interest in city line sprint type deals.
Perhaps the Strava community is rather different where you are, or perhaps because you don’t see the use of it to a TT guy you haven’t delved into it far enough to understand it. So far for the month I’m leading the 10 mile out and back TT, the 1.5 mile point to point “pursuit,” and last week took the mile record outright, (on a sub $200 dollar fixie, OK, I did change the “demo” pedals to MKS rubber blocks and the straight handlebars to Lauterwassers). Not bad for a guy looking down the barrel of moving into the highest age group.
If it weren’t being able to TT on the Strava platform I probably wouldn’t be doing it all anymore. I’ve rather lost my tolerance for the orginizational aspects of more formal competition. Call it “soul” time trialing.
I suggest you give the idea further consideration.
All devices by Garmin are quite dumb when it comes to detecting movement. They are prone to GPS drift as the support tells me. The point where this moronic suggestion is laid to rest is when the 800, VIRB, etc is connected to a speed & cadence sensor. The device still activates as if it was being moved. This is not a big issue with the 800 but it is with VIRB as it destroys the video with useless frames. I wonder if 1000 is prone to the same.
Such inexplicably stupid mistakes leade to believe that Garmin isnt going to do anything about this because it doesn’t have any competition in USA.
If I had the option I would go with Bryton. I urge everybody to do the same. A GPS is supposed to provide peace of mind but the stupid Garmin devices fail in exactly that. Not to mention its miserable course support. Can you believe that there is no option to have a custom point on the route & have the device display the remaining distance to it? This is particularly helpful while climbing. If I have to keep on subtracting the current altitude from the total to know the remaining, the device is a piece of trash.
Add the mess of course points, way points, via points & you have a course system that can only be called defective by design.
I’m really convinced that Garmin did a very good job to migrate all of the many deficiencies of the 810 to the new 1000. But as the new 1000 has more features, we can be lucky about even more deficiencies and bugs of course. As soon as it comes out, I will buy it. I’m keen to find out, if it can raise the level of annoyance above the 810. Don’t worry …. ;-)
I ride many long brevets and always create a gpx file on ride with gps and then upload it to my 810 for turn by turn directions.
It almost never fails that somewhere along the ride the turn by turn directions stop or become erratic or just plain wrong.
This happens with both city navigator and opens streets maps.
From talking to other cyclists I know that my experience is far from unique.
One problem is that garmin fails to provide any info as to what settings work best for navigating and turn by turn.
For example, the 810 can be set for cycling or touring but no explanation as to the difference.
Any help as to how to get the most out of navigating with the 810 and turn by turn directions would be greatly appreciated.
Jim,
I tried Garmin 810 turn-by-turn once in 75miles ride and I almost crashed because of its direction, I was paid attention to control the 810 rather than looking at the street. it became so erratic during the ride, then the unit frozen. I was lucky to bring a long a cue sheet and made it home.
How long was the route? I split a 200k into two pieces for my 800 and things worked very well. I suspect that the routing works better for shorter routes and shorter routes make it easier/faster to recover if the device gets “lost”.
sometimes when the turn by turn stops functioning i restart the unit and then it is able to “find” the course.
also I should add that often the turn by turn works for the first 50 miles or so but then starts having problems.
my rides are usually 200 to 400 miles
splitting it may work but it would be a bit of a pain in the ass
Hello Ray,
Excellent Blog Post and Comments here. Thank you Ray and everyone for the great info on the topic of Bike Computers and the Garmin in specific.
Since I do not own a Bike Computer and was looking to purchase one for the first time, I was curios if the Garmin Edge 1000 is the one to get?
Why? Well, it has the everything I would use with the exception of the D2 ability. Also, I do not own any of the previous Garmin Bike Computers (as so many do who posted comments here). Whether this is an advantage or disadvantage is another question I have. Because I’ve never spent the cash for an Edge 800 or 810, it does not put me into a quandary (hmm, I spent x$ on one last year so why would I spend more now). Since I did not lay out the cash already, is the Edge 1000 worth the price?
I see advantages to the Edge 1000 like the following:
1. It has a Bigger Display
2. It has a Higher Resolution Display
3. It has a Faster Procesor making it a faster Bike Computer
4. It has its own Segment Platform vs. the Strava Platform
NOTE: I see this as a positive due to Strava having gotten too big and too cluttered with inaccurate Segments listed by users using inaccurate information rendering the Segments useless.
5. It uses updated Technology like the Magnetless / Auto Calibrating Speed and Cadence Sensors.
6. It uses Ant+ in conjunction with Blutooth technology making it future proof.
7. I could go on and on but finally, it is sleek and pretty cool looking especially with a K5 Metal Mount. :-)
So, should I get the Garmin Edge 1000 this being my first Bike Computer?
Thank you again Ray and Everyone for the best Blog and Information on the Internet!
Chris
Given the Edge 1000 won’t likely be out till June at this point, I’d wait till then to make a decision, to be honest. It allows you to see what Garmin does with respect to Di2 on the Edge 510/810, as well as what they do with respect to Segments on the 510/810.
The speed/cadence sensors are valid on all recent Garmin units, so that’s a bit of a wash.
Hi Ray,
Thank you for the reply. It is appreciated. Since you are so responsive to your readers and myself, I placed the order for the Edge 1000 with Clever Training. I took what you said into consideration and made an early decision. I hope I got in early to get in on the first batch. This was to support you and Clever Training. I did input the 10% off code put it did not apply to my order. I will be calling them to see why. Maybe you can put in the good word for me to make the transaction go through smoothly.
I ordered it as per your asking for the support. It was ordered to show my appreciation.
Best Regards,
Chris
Thanks for the support Chris!
Odd on the coupon code, I just tested it and it seemed to work for me. No worries though, the CT folks will easily be able to apply/take care of it for you.
Hello Ray,
Thank you very much for checking into this. They straightend everything out before I had a chance to call. If this was your doing, I cannot thank you enough. I am very happy I found your excellent reviews and Clever Training with employees who care about about their customers. What a great combination! :-). I look forward to doing business with Clever Training again in the future.
If anyone else is reading this post, I highly recommend purchasing from Clever Training. This is my first time purchasing from them and I can already see they care about their customers. And no, I am not affiliated with Clever Training nor do I know DC Rainmaker.
Best Regards Ray,
Chris
Wondering what they’ll implement for power training….data field, graphics,……and HR like R-R, training effect
Hi Ray,
I see the home screen is a little different from the 510/810 – is it still easy to select between different bike profiles before starting an activity? Any idea how many bike profiles can be stored?
Thanks. Look forward to the indepth review.
Thanks for the info. I have two questions:
Does the Edge 1000 accept tcx cource files in the NewFiles folder like the 500 and 800 series do?
Are the new ANT sensors compatible with older Garmin Edge models?
The sensors are compatible with older units (though, I’d need to validate on the Edge 705 if it supports speed-only and cadence-only sensors, can’t remember offhand).
To answer my own question: Yes it does accept the old .tcx course files in the NewFiles folder and converts them to new .fit course files. This comes in handy as I won’t have to change my MO. Also the Edge 1000 is a lot quicker with the conversion process than my old Edge 800.
I am at a loss of understanding why there seems to me to be a lack of “common sense” among manufacturers of a.o. cycling computers in casu Garmin. In my country (Denmark) abt. 2% of all cyclists are in the category 1. (roadists/raceists pros as well as wannabees) while abt. 95 % are in the categories 2. (mtbists/crossists/generalpractioners) and 3. (touringists), remaining 3% are the up and coming electric cycles for the elderly and disabled so they can see their own country better than before.
Now, in my admittedly narrow and humble world, I fail to understand why anybody would want to lean onto a marketshare of 2%!? You can only do that with some succes if Your product is a novelty (like, say, Iphone, Ipad e.a.), but the Garmin Edge is no longer a novelty! All the technology for making a real whopper for the remaining 98% is allready out there!
You see, there is still something called “common sense”! If we 98% does not appreciate, that frozen water on our ponds means that it would be a good idea to put on our Merino woollen socks, if we do not recognize that fallen trees all around means danger to our healths, if we on a cloudy day cannot find “North”, if we cannot understand why our hearts and pulses goes haywire, well then maybe we should stay at home and breed rabbits (no offence to rabbitbreeders!). We do not need an electronic device to tell us these things, and a lot of us do not need to boast about anything!
But sometimes we do need to know, with glasses on our old eyes, the easiest possible way where we are, where we are going, and what we are going to eat where. If this could include knowing where to get the bike fixed in case of need, well yes! So Garmin and others: Back to the drawing table, make a concerted effort to interface your marketing people with your bikingphanatics!
Fair is fair and f.y.i. I am at this moment conducting a trial with my Edge 810 and my Power Monkey Extreme solar battery. In the whole month of April (28 days so far), the monkey has kept my 810 on 100% and the Monkey itself is, as I write, on 81%, and Denmark is not as You probably know the most sunny side of this world, which is exactly why we invented the Dragon Longboat!
Instructions are now online for the new magnetless speed and cadence sensors.
link to static.garmincdn.com
Nice find! Thank you for the post! Looks as easy as peddling down hill. :-)
Do you know if Garmin has plans on making power meters for shimano pedals
Hello
Where can i find any information about the internal battery capacity ?
Iam curious about so i make an estimation of battery life with the monkey expolorer.
I would like to express my interest to Garmin in having the di2 gear support added to my edge 510. Do you have a link or contact to to register this interest?
Thanks
Yes, the best way to voice feedback/suggestions is via: link to www8.garmin.com & Facebook and Twitter, with a slight preference to Facebook as they tend to monitor that more.
I got my Shimano SM‑EWW01 D-fly unit today, and like somebody else mentioned before I think, there is no E-tube cable in the box. At least a couple of the adverts I’ve seen for this says that there’s a 150mm one as part of the contents…. I’m a bit miffed about this, but just thought I’d post this as a warning to others.
Anyway, wheres that Edge 1000 or update to the 510/810 Garmin?
Hi Ray,
Just want to ask regarding the gear display. I would just want a simply gear number display in one of my training pages, for example “53 – 17” alongside my other metrics on the same page. Can this be done?
I notice that there is only a dedicated page for Di2 in your pictures.
Can you suggest that the Di2 metrics be integrated into other normal training pages for display?
Having them all on one page was just how I configured it for a photo so I could easily have a photo for that section. ;)
Each one of those data fields can be put on any page as you see fit, and there is just a “53-17” option if you want to put that as a small text block on another page.
Hey everyone. If your planning on buying the garmin edge 1000. But it on garmin.com. There’s no tax so it’s a flat $599. Kudos for preview DC!
Garmin is a hardware company. A Software company is strava. Just wanted to share this.
Buy*
Hi Ray,
Great site, I would be lost without your indepth reviews.
I am in the land down under and I have pre-ordered the edge 1000. I was told that it would be available at the end of April. That fell through and now I am being told mid May, but reading one of your above comments you are saying June.
Have you had any word from Garmin on an actual release date?
Regards
Panz05
It’s pretty much always been late May/early June. Technically I think their wording is “Spring 2014”, which technically goes till June 20th.
Thanks Ray. I really appreciate the very quick response.
I will continue to wait impatiently :-)
Question : Will a Garmin 810 work with cadence/speed sensors I bought for Garmin 510 ?
ANT+ ANT+
Yes, it’ll work with both sensors.
Thanks rainmaker ! I can feel confident now buying a Garmin 1000 or 810 and being able to use the sensors I got with the 510.
FYI – The link to buy on Clever training won’t accept the 10% coupon “DCR10AKG”
Hi Pete-
We’re in the middle of transitioning to a VIP program. Fear not, you can still get the DCR 10% off via the VIP program here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Thanks for the support!
I’ve read the blog and all of the comments here and my head is about to explode. I’m debating between the 1000 and the 810. The $100 rebate on the 810 is only through May 31st. The 1000 feature that is most interesting are the notifications and better resolution but in not sure it is worth an extra $200. At the end of the day which unit would you reccomend?
I don’t feel the better resolution is worth it. Notifications would be a personal thing. I’m not sure I’d spend the extra $200 for just that.
I do suspect/expect that we’ll see additional features down the road however on the Edge 1000 that may make it worthwhile, that won’t be ported back to the Edge 510/810 for hardware compatibility reasons (primarily around lack of Bluetooth 4.0 support).
Once I get my test unit tomorrow (French customs willing), I’ll be able to have a better feel on where things stand.
I’ve used the 800 for several years now and use the navigation features extensively. I do think (hope?) that the larger screen size and resolution will actually make the 1000 much better in this regard. The problem I run into quite often with the 800 is that there’s just not enough detail on the map screen. Inevitably, on every 70+ mile course I follow, at some point the 800 will tell me to make a turn, but there’s so little detail on the map I’m left confused as to which turn to take. And if I need to figure out where I am by zooming out on the map screen, again, there’s often so little detail and contextual info that I’m left scratching my head trying to make sense of the mess of spaghetti lines representing roads.
If, by contrast, I compare the 800 map screen to that of my iPhone, there’s no contest. The iPhone map, with it’s larger size and greater resolution provides the detail needed to quickly ascertain my position and route options. Obviously, the 1000 won’t be able to match an iPhone for display size and resolution, but my experience does suggest that the improvements to the 1000 screen have the potential to improve the usefulness of navigation with a Garmin.
Many would wonder why I don’t just put my iPhone on the bar and use it as my computer. For someone just starting out with cycling computers or rides less than 100 miles/week, I can understand how sensible that seems. In practice, however, there are just too many reasons a dedicated computer makes more sense for me and many others. It’s been discussed to death by others but I’ll add my reasons: Battery life, weather-proofing, adequate mount options (I’ve seen far too many phones fly off bars), a barometric pressure sensor for accurate elevation, screen readability in sunlight, form-factor, durability, ANT sensor, physical buttons, etc.
I’ll also add that I have many friends who have no need for navigation on their computer. They just want GPS to upload their rides to Strava. Everyone (obviously) is different. If you’re interested, though, in exploring new roads and riding long distances, I can’t overstate how much enjoyment a computer like the 800, 810 or 1000 can add. Here’s hoping the 1000 I have on order will make navigation even more enjoyable for me and others who appreciate its features.
Can’t wait for the review. I like what I see so far (I’m coming from 810 that was a big disappointment over the 800, not sure anyone was happy with the 810) I hope the “processor” gets a good boost, I find the 810 struggles with the detailed Garmin Topo maps and crashes occasionally if you try to do too much moving around on the maps. I guess it’s the same processor that was in the 800, and probably the 705. I wish it was snappier.
Ray, is there a possibility to have different bike profiles like the 810?
Thanks
It’s actually interesting. There doesn’t appear to be. I was noticing that this afternoon (production unit arrived).
There is the ability to create separate activity profiles (as introduced in the Edge 810), however, there now is a single ‘communal’ sensor pool. You can name sensors as you wish (i.e. Road Bike Cadence) and also enable/disable sensors as well without deleting them.
I haven’t yet thought through the full implications of that (good or bad). In some ways, it’s nice because I just load up all my sensors and it automatically uses the right ones when I move the bike (cadence, speed, power, etc…). Since you still configure wheel circumference by a given sensor, that’s all fine.
Activity profiles appear to really take care of the rest. I’d be curious if there are any other things I’ missing there in that line of thinking.
By the way, went to my local shop today, and they had them on the shelve, so ended up with one….was not expecting that…
That’s odd, I didn’t think they were coming in till early June. Hmm..
So much for “pre-ordering” …………
Credit card CHARGED (by Garmin), and still they have yet to ship.
Uncool.
Where is your local shop?
I picked one up in my LBS tonight (in SoCal) for a friend.
They had two today and one was already sold. Rather annoying cos I pre-ordered mine from CleverTraining on the first day of this review. Hope it doesn’t take a long time to ship!
I was on the phone with Garmin yesterday and they said they started shipping them on May 1st.
My LBS (Trek Store in Ohio) has them on order and apparently Garmin is shipping them on May 30th. So yes, interesting that Joe already got one – good for you!!!
I know the formal review is still pending, but what is your quick impression – nice or not really all that?
Also, what options will the D-Fly give me, basically just the gearing? Or does the production unit have any additional info.
Finally, my 800 is kinda weird in that the course and timer functions seem “separate”. meaning that if I start the timer and just ride on the course, the unit won’t auto detect the course – as it does when I had my 510. Is this due to an old firmware version on the 800? I am assuming the 1000 builds off of the 510 and will have this feature back in?
I actually like that about the 800, and have read with some concern reports that it’s hard to keep the 810 from navigating/following a course. Most of the time I’m riding courses that I’ve ridden hundreds of times before. I don’t need to be told if I’m on course or if I’ve left it (for good reason). If I want to navigate a course or follow a route, I want to be able to decide that for myself.
I see your point, but the alternative is that you never know when you’ve actually started or stopped a course. If I start a course in the middle and want to get turn by turn, it will keep trying to navigate me back to the front of the course. And I “love” the glitches of when you turn off the course navigation and it conveniently stops tracking your route when uploading to strava.
Don’t mean to sound sarcastic, but I just liked to 510 software much more than the 800. Hoping the 1000 will carry that forward.
It’s still separate with the 810. If I go offcourse it doesn’t stop the recording of my ride. It just recalculates.
I know the formal review is still pending, but what is your quick impression – nice or not really all that?
Also, what options will the D-Fly give me, basically just the gearing? Or does the production unit have any additional info.
My LBS is in France. I will take it for a ride this morning and see….
I still don’t understand why these units are so expensive, I have the 810 and in terms of navigation it looks like a 20 years old gps device, with a very outdated and ugly screen resolution. If you think of Heart Rate monitoring it is as simple as any 50$ HRM watch so it doesn’t make sense to me these extreme price tags but for some fancy crazy reason we still buy them….though now I am from the opinion that if Garmin does not enable BLE and ANT+ at the same time on this unit I will not upgrade.
Shouldn’t the small remote be included BTW? Mine didn’t have it…
I like the display very much by the way. Figuring out how to zoom the map while riding…
Very fast unit as well
I like it, not sure it is completely worth the upgrade, but now I have it so should enjoy it.
BTW, I couldn’t pair Di2. Need to dive into Shimano unit manual…
Joe
No, the remote’s not included in either the base or bundle packages.
Ah, thanks!
I just got my Edge 1000 yesterday and cannot find an odometer. I suspected it should be listed under the speed sensors, but there is nothing there. I searched the manual but there’s nothing about an odometer. I hope this was a mistake and it will be added on the next firmware release!!
Mike
Select Data Fields > Distance > Odometer
Rainmaker,
That is how you add the odometer field to the display, but how can you set the number of miles/KM for each of the bikes/speed sensors you own?
Thank you,
Mike
I’d agree, that’s a puzzler. I’m planning on shooting some of those type questions over Monday or so, as I continue to play with it.
When do you think your full review will be posted?
Likely later this month. My work travel schedule is kinda messy the next few weeks, which will limit time with the just recently received unit.
Can we scroll through the data fields pages, map without starting a ride?? Quite a few changes from 810. But I guess as you said this is not an upgrade but a whole new thing..
Just figured it….hit the ride button!
Ray, how did you pair the D Fly to the Edge? I removed and put back the two wires on the unit but that didn’t seem to do the trick…
Thanks
I don’t have Di2 yet enabled on my bike, it’s being installed this upcoming week by my LBS.
Let me know when you get it going. I’m very interested to see how the D-Fly integration works. Is the gear change display very responsive or is there a delay? Also if you can mention all the different data fields that are possible with the D-Fly.
This will really help me make my decision to pull the trigger or not. Thanks
Available Di2 fields to add are:
Di2 Battery Level
Front Gear
Gear Ratio
Gears
Rear Gear
Cheers.
They have it in stock at the Garmin store in Chicago…
Just ordered mine through the phone and it will be shipping on Monday.
Here is the twitter post from Garmin: link to twitter.com
i dont see the point of having the remote. since your garmin is going to be mounted on the handle bar too. but fans will love it no matter what.
I believe the appeal is primarily for mountain bikers actually, who may want to change data fields/screns but not be in a good position to remove their hands from the handlebars. I see less appeal for road cyclists, though slightly more appeal for triathletes in aero bars with the buttons out at the end of the aerobars.
I’m a roady and an MTBr, and although there is more usefulness for an MTB, I would still find use for it on my Road bike. My rational is that when I switched to Di2 I held off for a while debating whether $100 was worth it for the climbing shifter, and after caving in shortly after going Di2, I would now not do without it. Its so nice to shift without moving your hands if you are on the tops.
I’ve had occasion too whilst tucked on a descent to want to change screen, and at 50 Mph or so, you don’t really want to be moving. I will buy one I think.
This Device have russian language ?
Yes, just confirmed it has Pусский.
Hi Ray,
Do you happen to know if the cadence/speed sensor from this package will be available separately? Also has the heart rate monitor changed at all or is it the premium 2013 heart rate monitor?
Cheers
Josh
Yes, it will. I pre-ordered mine a while ago from CT, and it’s now listed in stock, so I hope it won’t be long. Going to put this one on my mountain bike, since a GSC-10 would never work there.
Paul is correct. In fact, I’ll dive into it in more detail on my Wednesday post.
As for the HR monitor, it’s simply the Premium HRM3 one, but with post July 2013 firmware, so it’ll have a lot of the spike/dropout reduction smarts in it.
Still couldn’t figure out how to pair the D-fly…definitely interested in knowing what the trick is, as I am sure I am missing something. I did both what Shimano recommends, I.e. Disconnect the battery or unplug/re plug the unit’ s cables. I started with the latter as my battery is internal…no joy!
Have you made sure that all your components have the latest firmware with the Shimano etube project software? If you have the external battery then this involves buying a separate interface, however if you have an internal battery, then you already have the hardware required to do this with the charger.
Hooking up to the PC will also show you if the D-Fly is responding. I checked mine already, and it shows it as present and that the firmware it shipped with is the current one.
I still don’t have my 1000 yet, but will trying to pair it with my friends one on Tuesday.
I had a quick try earlier and had no luck either. Since I don’t have an extra etube cable, I just had it plugged in instead of my left shifter for the time being.
Will try a bit more tonight after unplugging everything else too.
Perhaps just entering the sensor ID will work?
OK I now have mine linked to the D-Fly, and my earlier problem was due a brain fart where I plugged it into the front shifter wire that I removed from the front junction box, and forgot that it should’ve been the other end that I needed to plug into :)
Anyway, with the above said, it was still a little bit problematic to pair and what I did was remove all of the other etube wires, and then plug in on its own temporarily. This is likely similar to removing the battery, since that was isolated from the front junction box when I unplugged everything, and this saves taking the seat post out.
Once plugged in on its own, it would only appear briefly on the pairing screen, and I had to select it and press add really quickly. This took a few tries or so, but now its working. Just need to get my 150mm E-tube wire now (cant find it in the USA, and had to get one from the UK), and I’m all set.
Here are some Pics of my install using a modified Tillquist Garmin mount which I had to add longer bolts and some bushes too:
link to onedrive.live.com
Morten, if you are reading this and don’t have your edge yet, you need an extra 9mm added to your mount.
Ok, please let me know. My battery is internal, and the unit is responding because the shifting works when it is installed. Not sure if that means I have the latest firmware, buy will check. The bike is in a box now ready to go for a triathlon next Sunday, so it will be when I get back…
Just having it in the loop doesn’t really mean that its working or responding since I think these things are all just wired in parallel, and it wouldn’t stop the other stuff working. You’ll need to use the connection check feature of the e-tube project software for that.
You didn’t mention the addition of GLONASS along with traditional GPS. Anything worth reporting? Or do you have to test it in Russia to notice a difference?
It was introduced with the Edge 510 in Garmin fitness devices. There are pros and cons to it, most times it helps, but sometimes it can result in oddities. There’s a good blog out there by GPSTrackLog that details a bunch of scenarios.
Hi Rai. Did i understand correctly Edge 1000 has GLONASS ?
Yes, it does.
Will this connect with Polar Bluetooth HRM belt?
No, it does not. It does not connect to any Bluetooth (or Bluetooth Smart) sensors at this time.
Seriously!? Thanks Ray.
Why is this!? Is this intentional to try and push ANT+ to the exclusion of other technologies. They’re beginning to feel more like Sony in the 90s or Apple to me.
I suspect we might see that change, but for now, that’s correct.
Well, both Sony in the 90s and Apple today have better technologies (regarding Apple, at least in some areas). ANT+ is obviously better than Bluetooth for sensors, so why wouldn’t Garmin push it?
Not necessarily so Paul and I have no strict objection to them pushing it but not at the exclusion of other technologies.
There’s not real issue with bluetooth HR sensors is there? Why wouldn’t Garmin include it, baffles me, the technology’s there… and the point is proven in that they’ve lost a sale from me.
My two cents bets that we’ll see it down the road…
For example, Sunday I took my road bike out for a ride. I used my Edge 800, my VIRB Elite, and I also was wearing my Fenix because I had just upgraded the software and wanted to try it out. All three were connected to my GSC-10 speed/cadence sensor and my HR belt. You simply can’t do that with Bluetooth because of the master/slave requirement ( yes, I’ve heard about the rebroadcasters, but that seems like a stupid solution to a problem that’s caused by using the wrong communication protocol in the first place). The problems are with the Bluetooth protocol, not with the sensors. Bluetooth is great for some things (I use Bluetooth headphones, am typing this on a Bluetooth keyboard, etc.) but it’s not equal to ANT+ for activity sensors.
I’m not arguing that ANT+ isn’t a good technology or perhaps even superior. I’m simply arguing that I’ve used bluetooth for many years with my phone for HRM in conjunction with ANT+ for speed/cadence with no issue at all. I think Garmin are being slightly arrogant to dismiss this customer base when the technology is already built in to their hardware now. Perhaps they have a large enough user base that they don’t need to but still smacks of a little arrogance to me.
Mine just shipped yesterday. Anyone else?
Got mine today from the Garmin store in Chicago.
It is huge…really fast compared to the Edge 800.
How. I order from Garmin (and one fromAmazon) and no deal on shipping – Amazon says mid to late June ;-(. Where can I get one now? I need it by June 6th
You can also support the site via Clever Training (and save 10%). My understanding is about half the Edge 1000 backorders will clear out today/tomorrow, and the remaining half should clear out next week should nothing change. For now though, to be cautious, the CT site says early June. As always, you can simply cancel in the event one of your other orders pops sooner.
Cheers!
Hi There
Thanks for the very helpfull review. How do I manage to get the mentioned 10% of at the ct online shop?
Cheers
Hi Dennis-
For the Edge 1000 you’ll need to join the VIP program, which only takes a minute (and has other benefits beyond just the 10% savings). Details are here: link to dcrainmaker.com
Thanks for the support!
Will the 1000 sync the activity and also the health data (from ANT+ scale) with Connect Mobile APP (Android/iPhone) or is planned to do that?
Hmm, I’ll have to try that specific routing out when I return back home and can validate/test it.
My Edge 1000 works with my Tanita BC-1000 scale, and uploads via my phone and the connect app. I suppose if I leave it longer it may sync over wifi; I’ll try tomorrow. Any you get all the details not just the headline weight.
Well I just unboxed my Edge 1000 and to be honest I’m a bit disappointed (bear in mind I’ve not actually ridden anywhere yet).
There seem to be some missing features that I had on my Edge 810.
There are no bike profiles so I have no idea how it would work if you had different sensors on different bikes, also no way of setting the odometer for your bike (mentioned already I think).
There doesn’t seem to be any way of getting the Virb remote screen to appear, either by going into settings or being able to add it to your list of training pages. I can add the Virn remote and have a couple of options – manual or auto start stop. I can’t figure out how to start / stop manually. I have looked for a way of adding it but can’t see it anywhere.
No course training page.
There is a lap info training page, no idea what that is for or when it appears.
The software version updated to 2.2 when I plugged it into the computer, my edge 810 just updated to version 3.0 so maybe they have not released the latest software version for the 1000 yet.
I hope that they add these features soon.
OK, I have now done my first ride with the Edge 1000 and have a few more things to report.
I have found the Virb Remote! There is a whole other menu that I hadn’t found before that you get to by pulling down from the top of the screen (much like the android notification screen). In there you have the Ege Remote controls, details of connected sensors, Power meter calibration and the current weather along with a few other things I can’t remember.
Personally I think that I prefer the old Virb control – much bigger buttons easier to hit when moving but the pull down menu is nice.
No Text / call notifications on Android (this was probably widely known but I had missed it).
Segments:
Segments are quite nice but could get quite annoying popping up all the time. No idea how it will cope with overlapping segments.
It would be nice if you could set alert level:
Always, only when beating previous time (be it personal best or KOM), only when you have beaten previous best, off.
I was alerted about a few segments I had set up – including segments for my route home – going in the other direction for example.
Nice, large screen looks really good and much easier to read than 810.
Just as a minor note on the Segments, it’ll only load segments that you’ve sent to your device. Meaning, it won’t randomly pull up every segment along the way.
Hi, do you guys have the long bike mount included in the box?
Thanks
Yes I did
Will this device fit on a K-edge mount? Looks a bit long. I was thinking of one to go with my 500. Garmin must have realised just what a fine device the 500 is for racing.
Just a tiny bit long. They’ve already released a new one though for the Edge 1000, actually have it for testing.
How does the Segment feature compare to the VPU functionality at the Raceshape site (link to strava-tools.raceshape.com)? From your description it looks like the functionality is exactly the same except that the VPU functionality works for Strava segments and give you the opportunity to compete against anyone who has ridden the segment and not just the raceleader (or KOM in Strava).
The VPU functionality works with every EDGE except with the 810. Given the fact that Garmin now releases a device with their own version of this functionality I suspect that this not working on the 810 and they have not been “able” to fix it in 15 months maybe this was a strategic choice at Garmin instead of a bug?
I haven’t used the VPU functionality, but knowing a little bit on what it’s doing it’s basically making a short course that you try and beat. But it wouldn’t show you upcoming segments or make it seamless. Meaning, with VPU you’re basically going out on the hunt for segments – you’re manually loading each one in before you arrive at it. With Garmin Segments it just happens as you ride around town and through them.
It’s interesting it doesn’t work on the 810. Kinda odd because I’m not aware of any ‘breaking’ changes there. As far as being strategic in breaking it on the 810, honestly, you’re given Garmin too much credit there…
The VPU also works seamless but you can only load one segment at the time. It will also tell you exactly how far it is to the start of the segment and how you are doing during the segment and when the segments ends. But you have to load the segment manually upfront or during the ride which you have to do (at least for now) on the 1000 as well if I read your first look correctly.
The 810 still does not allow you to ride courses against a virtual partner without workarounds. When ever you want to start a course, it still resets all settings and goes into navigation mode. You can manually reset this (every time!) but during a ride this is too complicated and dangerous. I have been battling this issue with Garmin over a year.
Cool, thanks for the explanation on VPU.
So it sounds like the difference is that on the Edge 1000 you’d pre-load all the segments via Garmin Connect for anything you’re interested in. Once you start the ride though, it’ll automatically take care of any as you near them. Meaning that unlike VPU/800, you don’t need to manually load each segment as you near it (so no limitation of one at a time).
For example, on my ride I did last weekend, I just created 3 segments around town and then wandered into them they automatically triggered.
I’m going to do a bit of a ‘Garmin Segments 101’ post likely this upcoming week explaining it all, and how it compares to Strava segments, as well as what I like and don’t like (a pile of both).
I’m looking forward to the full review, Ray. I’d very much like to know if the audio navigation prompts, (the ‘beeps’ signaling the need to turn when relying on the device’s navigation feature,) are transmitted to Bluetooth headphones, or are they only emitted from the unit’s speaker itself?
At this point they are only transmitted to the unit’s speaker.
Will the new Edge 1000 display other rider’s positions etc? I don’t want to have to pull out my phone and internet to track another rider while I’m pedaling to meet them. A scrolling display of teammate data would be cool (but likely illegal in races).
I’d like to see OnStarish airbag deployed functionality to send alert texts/emails based on phone accelerations and other available data.
No, it does not unfortunately.
I just got mine from clever training – thanks Ray – and all is well so far except Bluetooth notifications. They don’t work and I don’t even see where you turn it on in the iOS app. It has live track, weather etc – stuff that is same as 810 – but nothing for notifications. This was something I planned to use for sure. Is there a trick to get this on? I have the latest garmin connect app on my iPhone 5s and it connects bluetooth just fine.
Forget that – I figured out that it needs two bluetooth connections – one smart and one BLE. Of course, bluetooth is completely unstable and thus unusable since it constantly drops off.
Hi,
for the in-depth review of the Edge 1000 i have a Question:
Is it possible to use free WiFi for transfer from Edge 1000 to Garmin Connect?
Or do you need to setup new WiFi Connection every time Garmin Express?
As far i can see free wifi can be used, So as long the free wifi only need an password and no registration and login onto an website.
Correct.
And, unlike the FR620, you can actually setup WiFi directly from the Edge 1000 (of course, as Manuel noted, you can’t use any WiFi that requires entering a username/password on a webpage – ala Starbucks/etc…).
regarding wifi, is it correct that it does not support 5 GHz?
I’m looking forward to the full review, especially about segments since I am not able to upload my new segments (everything looks good, files in New files folder, but nothing under segments on the unit)
Also hopping there might be a way to export/import Strava segments…
As always lots of nice information here!
I’m not sure I understand. Are you not creating the segments with Garmin Connect and then having Garmin Express sync them?
Yes, that is correct. I have created 8 New segments and there are 8 files on The New files folder on The unit but notthing if i tap The segments icon. Also try to send from The connect app on my iPhone but that failes.
I think the problem was that the leaderboard was not finished calculating, today when that was done upload went as expected
Yes.. I figured this out yesterday as well. I’d make a segment and the download would never make onto my edge.. Woke up the next morning and tried to download it again and it went through.
I guess the moral of the story is that you can’t sync a newly created Segment until a leader board has been built by Garmin Connect..
Of course what we really want to do is export a Strava segment and import it into Garmin connect and then ride against it there. Figure that out yet?
I can’t seem to find the reference. But I thought that the Garmin Edge units were not able to report data from all of the sensors (strain gauges) for the SRM power meters. If memory serves, the Garmin Edge units gather data from two of the eight available.
If this is correct, then does the 1000 gather data from any more sensors than the 810 if you have an SRM or process that data differently in any way? I’m dubious that they would do so as it would differentiate what is essentially a competitor’s product. But I find myself naively hopeful anyway.
The SRM power meter transmits power based on all its strain gauges, and then the Edge 1000 picks it up using the standard power meter profile.
I suspect you may be referring to a specific mode of the SRM power meter head units to do higher frequency sampling than once per second. This is pretty much only used in track cycling though.
Dear Dennis,
Thank you for your email and I apologize for any problems you received while placing your order. The DCRainmaker coupon code is starting to be phased out as we initiate a VIP program in conjunction with DCRainmaker that offers members the same advantage of receiving a discount on all non sale or clearance items listed on our website with additional support and offers. Please visit link to clevertraining.com to view the full details of the VIP program and feel free to respond to
this email with any questions.
Kind Regards,
Jennifer
:::a0KA000000BUNSOMA5:::
Regards to “DCR10AKG”
Hi Dennis-
Yes, that’s correct. For a handful of items (which does include the Edge 1000), you can still save 10% by joining the VIP club. This is outlined up above at the end of the post. Though, I can see where there’s some confusion with the accessory table having the coupon code listed (since those work with the code). I’m working on correcting that – sorry there!
In any case, the VIP club comes with other benefits – including support the charity ‘Girls on The Run’. (as well as of course supporting the blog).
Thanks for the support!
Hi Ray,
How do the segments work on the Garmin? Do they only work if you use a route with the segments included, or if I just ‘put’ the segment onto the bike and cycle to the start of the segment will it recongise the segment and then start the ‘countdown’?
Cheers
Josh
It’s free-form or with courses from Garmin Connect. So on Sunday when I rode back from the river I wasn’t using a course (just free-riding), but happened to come across a segment I had downloaded onto the Edge 1000. As I approached it, it triggered an alert (countdown), and then it allowed me to race it.
Thanks for the quick reply!
Thats what I was hoping it would do, I’m using it more for touring but that seals the deal!
Just as a general FYI to folks, I’ve added photos of the following into the post above:
1) Garmin Edge Remote
2) Garmin new Speed-only and Cadence-only ANT+
3) K-Edge Garmin Edge 1000-capable mount
My current plan is a final review the week of June 2nd, based on some time in the Pyrenees checking out how well the barometric altimeter holds up.
Cheers.
Just as another FYI – for those that have ordered from Clever Training, all Edge 1000’s that are backordered, as of now will ship out to you by the end of the week. Cheers!
Hi, Ray. Read all your reviews. Nobody else comes close. Forgive what’s probably a stupid observation. I’ve own a number of Garmin and Polar devices. I’ve always been frustrated with the way Garmin devices count calories. Always seems about 40 percent off of what a polar device suggests. Maybe Polar is wrong, but you’d think that they’d end up closer than 40 percent. Anyway, it may be too soon to ask you this, but does Garmin’s Calorie Count seem a little more accurate on this one? (I realize it ultimately doesn’t matter. You burn what you burn. Still, everything else about the Garmin devices are so good. Plus, if you are counting calories, it’s useful to know approximately how many you are burning with exercise. All the best, Jeff
Funny, if just finished up an easy 30min (easy peddle) trainer ride and was specifically looking at the calorie pieces.
Edge 1000: 175
FR15: 188
Polar V800: 230
Not sure what is what. All were configured with very similar settings (My weight had been set 5-pounds diff between Edge 1000 & FR15).
don’t know if that helps…
On my last ride:
Edge 1000: 323 calories and 322kj (from my Vector).
The difference between the calories and kj was much much more different when I was on my Edge 800. (Like calories were almost double the jk). Now they almost seems the same.
Well, Google makes it easy to find that 1 calorie is 4.18 joules. I’ve read that humans are about 25% efficient at converting calories to power at the pedals (there must be some variation among individuals, and trained athletes are probably more efficient), so multiply calories by a factor of 4. So it’s roughly a 1 to 1 correspondence between kilojoules measured by a power meter and calories burned. So your numbers seem consistent to me.
Maybe that’s why Garmin doesn’t use Firstbeat for cycling. Cyclists (willing to spend the money) can measure something that more directly correlates to calories burned than heart beat, and Garmin is willing to sell them a Vector to do it.
The difference is that between counting total calories burned during the activity, and calories burned less what one would have burned while channel surfing on the sofa. Or, to put it the other way, the extra calories burned by the activity.
Hi Ray – I dont know where else to ask this; but has anyone tried with Garmin Express to upload anything yet?
It was the first time today – just returned from a ride plugged in the old Edge 705 (yes I still use one) and when I clicked Upload in Garmin Connect (yes I only use that to register my activities) it redirects me to down load Garmin Express – I have a Mac.
So I did; but when I synced it, it downloaded stuff from 2010 already there in Connect, and stopped any activities younger than a month, so basically no new activities can go on.
Not so impressed so far – probably Garmin will say Edge 705’s not supported etc, have fired off a n email to Garmin support ; but I doubt to hear anything useful from them, interested if anyone has had any similar issues. here.
Cheers
Pat
Most of the newer devices work fairly seamlessly, however, I think some of the older devices are having some issues. I’ve loaded about 15-20 different devices into my Garmin Express without too much issue. On occasion it hiccups, but for me it’s gotten a lot better in the last few update versions.
I have seemingly heard more issues though from folks on Mac (I’m largely on PC).
For what it’s worth, my 705 works with OS X Express, although I don’t want to try to link it to Connect and then have to delete all the duplicate tracks it would send there. It’s detected and shows up as one of my devices in Express.
But something was wrong at Garmin today. The forums erupted with people complaining about manual uploads being broken. At first I thought it was just the usual “where did they hide manual uploads in Modern”, but as it turns out it was broken in Classic, where the upload button is on every page. So maybe you should just try again; there have been a few posts saying that the Upload button is back to normal.
Thanks for the replies Ray and Paul,
Yes it seems like yesterday was not good in Garmin land.
I tried again this morning, and got the “classic” dashboard back with the nice simple upload, and choice of New activities.
I have quitted Express as it started to auto sync too.
Pretty interface; but not fit for my purposes.
Just be aware that Express is the way Garmin wants you to interact with Garmin Connect now. You will be switched to Modern and Classic will go away. You can still do manual uploads in Modern, but it’s not on every page and they’ve made it hard to find, at least at the moment. Also, Modern doesn’t use Communicator Plugin at all, so if that’s the way you upload to GC, say goodbye to that.
Ray,
Do you know if the “Firstbeat” technology is a matter of a firmware update, or is it a hardware issue? If it is Garmin’s most accurate caloric burn algorithim, why not bundle it into all of thier equipment? I appreciate all of your work you put into your site! Thank you and keep up the excellent work.
Regards,
Shane
It’s a firmware thing.
I’ve discussed it a few times with them and their leads for both the cycling and fitness division. I’ve never gotten a really good answer at why they’ve held off on introducing it on cycling. Their general belief seems to center around the idea that it’s more widely used by runners than cyclists. While probably true, i’d argue that’s likely because they’ve only enabled it on running watches.
With the algorithm already built, I wouldn’t think it would be hard to add it into the firmware…or cost very much for that matter. It would make sense to me to bundle in the same accuracy available in their running hardware. I’m just spit balling here…
I suspect it’s a cost issue: They license the algorithm from FirstBeat.
(Of course, I do realize this is Garmin’s most expensive fitness device ever….sigh)
I agree with Shane, why on such new device are not implementing the new Firstbeat algoritm included in the 910xt, fr620?
I just got an Edge 1000 with bundle at my local REI. They just got them in and only had one. I don’t know if they also have the non-bundled version. This is at the REI in Tustin Ca.
Also it came with software 2.10 and there is an update to 2.20 already waiting.
Changes from version 2.10 to version 2.20:
Made various improvements to segments.
Improved ANT sensor reception.
Improved Bluetooth connection setup.
Fixed issues with connecting to some Wi-Fi networks.
Improved Edge Remote connection reliability.
Mine must have been in the second batch and is scheduled to arrive today. Can’t wait. How do we handle the multiple bike issue? Also, I assume I can google transferring data from ride/course history from my garmin 810 to the 1000?
Multiple bike issue is sorta half-baked right now – at least if you need/care about individual odometers. For that, there’s no solution. Otherwise, it works fine with sensors automatically connecting based on you getting on a bike.
For transferring data, there’s never been any way to load historical rides into Garmin products unfortunately. You can just copy courses over though, that’s not a problem.
Yesterday when my edge 1000 arrived, I plugged it and my 810 into my Mac and dragged all of my 2013&2014 ride files into the new folder of the 1000. Same with the courses. All transferred over to the 1000 ride history. Is it ok to do that?
Hmm, cool. Never tried that before. Well played!
Are the D-Fly units shipping yet?i see some have them but mine is on BO from CT
Unfortunately they’re globally backordered with virtually nobody having them. They did ship out units back in April (and Clever even had them in stock then, as oddly enough I saw them while I was down there). But Shimano definitely under-estimated demand.
Your best bet is calling a bunch of local bike shops to see if any might happen to have one. That’s what happened to me here in Paris. My LBS couldn’t get one, but managed to find another place across town that had a spare one sitting around.
Has anyone successfully installed the D-fly unit internally to the frame and gotten a signal to the Garmin?
Has anyone successfully done an internal install and gotten a good signal at the Edge?
I visited a couple of LBS here in Montreal (Canada) and they all told me that they were never available in Canada :(
Alex’s cycle in Japan has stock and they ship internationally.
Thank you! I just ordered it!
Thank you as well. Ordered one too
I just received it. Now I’m on the lookout to buy a short cable…there was only the transmitter in the box. I thought it was also coming with a 200mm cable.
found a cable and updated the firmware on my Di2.
Everything is working great!
If they had a mind to, they could record what gear you were in without needing to have Di2 etc, all they have to do is have a simple algorithm manipulating the cadence versus the roadspeed, for bit more effort you could enter your chainrings and cluster to be sure, to be sure. Mind you I haven’t worked out what I do with the information that I went up that hill in a 50″ gear versus a 46″ gear or whatever…
Lots of complaints on Garmin’s Edge 1000 forums about touchscreen locking and bluetooth failing. What a surprise that Garmin would release a flagship expensive product with obvious bugs…
link to forums.garmin.com
Got a total of two rides and 80 miles so far. Love it. No issues yet
I guess we will see how long that lasts. You are in the minority. How much of the functionality are you using?
link to forums.garmin.com!!!
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I’m almost afraid to look at the forums for fear the problems might be catching. I would have thought I am using a fair bit of the functionality:
Stages power meter
Scosche HR Monitor
Garmin remote
Linking to garmin connect via android phone
Live track
Have not used courses yet.
After two rides and 80 miles, my initial impressions are:
Bright beautiful screen.
Touch screen much more responsive than 810
New UI is nice and more intuitive
Enjoying the remote but didn’t use it much
Used live track today and worked with no drops
Boot time is quicker, much quicker.
Like the new UI for ending rides
Now you can see temp, time and battery life at the top of the screen.
Over all very nice upgrade. I’d it worth $600?
I rationalize every gadget upgrade. I sell the old one on eBay and the incremental cost to have the latest is not that great. So I wouldn’t pay $600 but will pay about $200.
Completed my third ride today with the edge 1000.
My phone is a Note 3, on Att and running kitcat (latest android)
The unit worked well. No screen freezes.
I start it and it picks up my power meter. I rode a mile to the start of the ride, and then turned on my new Scosche HR band. I expected the 1000 to start showing HR, but it did not. I had to go not sensors and find it. Then it worked. Thats a glitch I think. Just before the ride start, I looked at Garmin Connect on my phone and the device was already connected to the 1000. I initiated Live Tracking to my wife. We rode about 50 miles over three hours. I used the garmin remote to change pages just to get the feel of it. At the end of the ride, I ended it and clicked save. It went through the save sequence and immediately uploaded the ride to my phone and Garmin Connect. That never worked so well on my 810. So the ride uploads to Garmin and within an hour to Strava ( because I have set up synching). So convenient.
I’m sorry so many are having problems. I do wonder if they are the exception or am I. Cheers
PS: the 1000 is on the up front mount and my Samsung Note 3 is in my back jersey pocket.
I’m done. This device is going back. I’ll keep using my 510 which it took them a year of firmware upgrades to get right. I’m not going through that again. I posted this on the Garmin Edge 1000 forum.
“Anyone returned theirs yet or thinking about it?
I’ve had it with the bugs, specifically screen locking and bluetooth connection. Garmin should not have released this device in this condition but anyone who uses their products should not be surprised. i sure shouldn’t but bought one anyway. I’m pretty close to taking it back because something that costs this much should be right out of the box. it took them a year to get decent software running on the Edge 510 which I still own and I am probably just going to go back to that.”
Pathetic Garmin. Get it together. Get some real developers for one and some testing processes for another. Or stop releasing products to customers when they fail at basic functionality. Like being able to use the screen.
Had mine for a weekend now and did two training sessions and a race yesterday. I am upgrading from a 810 on my racebike and a 800 on my MTB.
Take two. This time from my computer NOT being teased by the spelling correction on my phone ;o)
The increased responsiveness of the screen , the fast startup and the bigger screen makes the product so much better than “the old ones”.
I am looking forward to having my Di2 upgraded, so I Will be able to use the Di2 functions.
I am though missing bike profiles and I hope the will be added later on, when Garmin realizes that taking them out of the software is a mistake.
By the way, I got mine from “pulsure.dk” in DK.
When I was a kid I was in the men’s corner at birthday parties, being a boy. Off course they were talking about cars. I remember they had a rule: never buy a new model right after it has come out! Cause then it would still have to go through the childdiseases! (expression in my language)
You wanna flash? Then accept the risks!
In my opinion this is a highly questionable device.
I use 310XT & 810 models. But I guess next step will be the phone. (soloists in quiet/remote areas have to take that anyway)
I totally agree. Life is a risk/benefit ratio. I would likely wait a year on a car model. Very high cost, less so benefit. On consumer tech devices, I always have the latest smartphone and the latest Garmin. Why? Relatively low cost and I like being an early adopter. And if you buy from a reputable firm like Clever Training, you can even return it in 60 days. That’s amazing. I will get a front row seat as Garmin competes with Strava for segments, text notifications get worked out and get to see how Di2 integration works. This may not be the most practicable approach but is sure as heck is fun. Each of us gets to work out our own risk benefit ratio. Cheers. Loving my new Edge 1000
I want to like this device, really I do – as much as anyone who’s just spent over £400 on a new toy. Sadly this thing just wasn’t ready for release.
So far:
Screen locks randomly and frequently rendering the unit unusable.
Bluetooth connection is very intermittent.
Bluetooth smart will not connect.
WiFi will not connect.
Unable to load either TCX or GPX files onto the unit.
Unable to load segments I’ve created onto the unit.
Unit will not calculate power zones from FTP.
Ray, I hope the unit you’ve got for testing is better than mine – otherwise you’re really going to struggle to find something positive to say about it.
Racing tomorrow, I’ll be taking my 705……..
For me:
Screen locks are the item du jour (err…du minute). Constant. I see Garmin has said it’s planned for an update.
Bluetooth is rough for me.
Di2 has some odd UI/entry bugs that they’ve confirmed will get fixed.
WiFi and Segments are fine. Haven’t tried FTP.
In general, the one that irks me is the first one (screen lock). It’s basically like someone said “screw it, ship anyway” because it impacts every single unit and is so astoundingly obvious that it’s mind-boggling.
I can ‘forgive’ rare bugs, or bugs that are hard to re-produce. That’s normal. But the screen one is just so obvious. The Di2 one kinda falls into that category as well, since it’s clear nobody even tried setting it up, since it simply doesn’t save any settings.
On the Bluetooth side, that’s more complex. It’s complex from an Apple standpoint because Garmin is using both BLE channels (for notifications) as well as legacy BT channels to accomplish what they want. Thus, it’s messy to setup and I’m not 100% clear where all that blame lies.
I will say that (for me), the Segments piece works well…if only I didn’t actually have to create all the Segments myself first. I guess I don’t get why Garmin didn’t seed major cities with popular Segments. I sorta would have thought Paris might be considered a major city. And there’s basically no Segments in Paris outside of ones I’ve created (and a few other people in the last couple weeks).
When are the screen locks happening? I went on third ride today without one. Used power meter, HR monitor, live track, remote but not courses. At the end of a two hour ride, saved the ride and it was still connected and uploaded via my samsung Note 3.
same thing for me…I’ve used it today for a 3hours ride and not a single screen lock-up.
Used livetrack through my iPhone 5S, received a few text from my girlfriend (really hope we could see the content and not be forced to pull on the side of the road to get the phone out of the pocket) and the unit uploaded my activities through Wifi as soon as I got back home.
So far everything is good on my side! (firmware = 2.20, with Garmin Vector, HR belt from the Forerunner 620 (HRRun)).
I also got a “Severe thunderstorm” alert at some point…looked behind me and the sky was all black…I cycled fast fast fast home, but got caught up 2km from home and arrived all wet!
The only screen lockup I got was last week-end when I paused an activity for a 15-20 minutes and the unit went into sleep. When I got it back up I got the “screen locked” message. I had to reboot and everything came back and not a single issue since.
Hi Ray,
Long time reader…first time writer, thanks for this information, it/you are quite the resource!
I have a question regarding my new 1000 and it’s connection to my iphone 5. In simple testing with both devices sitting next to each other on the counter, the connection between them and/or the Connect app toggles between connected and disconnected. At times, they register the proper connection via Bluetooth, then…poof…connection failed. This also manifested itself in a test ride yesterday when live track failed to work. Any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong?
Thanks, GP
I wish I could provide some guidance there, but the BT connection has become just as finicky for me as others. It seemed fine my first ride or two, but has gone downhill since.
I have exact same issue with Bluetooth on Iphone4
My first several rides went well too, upgraded to the 2.20 and started having BT issues and segments I created are waiting for leaderboard to be established.
Called Garmin and they said to Google DC Rainmaker and he may have more info because he did a review.
Wow… Come on Garmin!
Keep up the great work Ray.
I suspect after the review publishes they won’t be giving that guidance…
GOOD!
Training efficiency could be a cost for Garmin, BUT the 1000 is not coming for free and for an high level device i would expect something more VS the 810
Thanks anyway, after further reading it seems this is certainly widespread. Maybe the boatload of $ we all paid will further the development of the fixes…sounds strikingly similar to disease research/ fundraising to me…
Hi Ray,
I’ve found Edge 810 (bundle versione+silicon case) at 370 € / 504 $ (shipment included) and Edge 1000 (again bundle version+silicon case) at 530 € / 722 $ (shipment included).
According to you is it worth moving from 810 to 1000 paying 160 € / 218 $ more? Or could I be satisfied with 810 saving a bunch of money?
Thanks.
Carlo
Carlo, I just upgraded from the 810 and like the 1000. Garmin will iron out the glitches I hope. The 810 was introduced over a year ago. So it makes sense it’s 30% less. The 810 is a good unit. Only you can decide if the new features are worth it. Better/ larger screen, better UI, test message notifications, etc.
Hi Bill.
Thank you for you reply. What about the size of this device? I’ve only been seeing it on the pc screen.
I’m a bit a race-oriented guy so I’m a bit scared of the huge dimensions of this 1000.
Thanks.
Carlo
Very early in the review, Ray has a side by side photo of the two. About 3/4″ taller. I’m pretty confident it will not affect any race outcome.